"Bret Cahill" <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote in message >A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to a gay > bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to leave, maybe > properly so.
> Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal evidence > similar to the above?
A lovely just-so story, Brett. Perhaps you could tell us of what exactly it provides evidence?
There exists an enormous collection of such anecdotes in western literature by such renowned authors as (among others) the Grimm Brothers and Hans Christian Anderson. Their stories are vastly superior to yours.
> >A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to a gay > > bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to leave, maybe > > properly so.
> > Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal evidence > > similar to the above?
> A lovely just-so story, Brett. Perhaps you could tell us of what exactly > it provides evidence?
How would anyone know without more evidence?
> There exists an enormous collection of such anecdotes in western literature > by such renowned authors as (among others) the Grimm Brothers and Hans > Christian Anderson. Their stories are vastly superior to yours.
It's true I'm not much of a story teller but that dodges the issue:
Before we can start working on a _scientific_ study we need to at least obtain some anecdotal evidence.
Bret Cahill wrote: >> A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to a gay >> bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to leave, maybe >> properly so.
>> Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal evidence >> similar to the above?
>> Bret Cahill
Sure, back in the 80's me and a fraternity friend double dated and went bar hopping through the French Quarter. Once we were done with the popular sites, we went to the outskirts. On Rampart street a couple blocks off of Canal street we found a bar that looked interesting, so we parked and went in. Well, it was a Gay bar. While they tolerated us for the first drink, it was obvious that we were not welcome by the owner, the bar keep and the patrons when we ordered the second drink.
I had no problem associating with, having a good time with them or being around so many gay people. It was them that made it clear that we were not welcome. So we paid for the second drinks and politely left.
Needles to say that left a lasting impression on all of us many years latter. Especially when Gays claim they want to be like everyone else.
Because it is the same today as it was back then. Gays want respect but are not willing to give respect to others in return.
If gays say this is a free country and they should be treated as everyone else, then why we not welcome in a public bar? They were treating us as bad as they claim heterosexuals treat them.
There is some anecdotal evidence for your study --
It is all about the truth with: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ·.¸Adman¸.· ^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to a gay > >> bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to leave, maybe > >> properly so.
> >> Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal evidence > >> similar to the above?
> >> Bret Cahill
> Sure, back in the 80's me and a fraternity friend double dated and went bar hopping through the > French Quarter. Once we were done with the popular sites, we went to the outskirts. On Rampart > street a couple blocks off of Canal street we found a bar that looked interesting, so we parked > and went in. Well, it was a Gay bar. While they tolerated us for the first drink, it was obvious > that we were not welcome by the owner, the bar keep and the patrons when we ordered the second > drink.
A lot of bars don't want frat rats.
> I had no problem associating with, having a good time with them or being around so many gay > people. It was them that made it clear that we were not welcome. So we paid for the second > drinks and politely left.
> Needles to say that left a lasting impression on all of us many years latter. Especially when > Gays claim they want to be like everyone else. > Because it is the same today as it was back then. Gays want respect but are not willing to give > respect to others in return.
Next time a lesbian turns you down call her a "heterophobe" and everything will be even steven.
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:16:18 -0600, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@hotmail.ed> wrote:
>Bret Cahill wrote: >>> A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to a gay >>> bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to leave, maybe >>> properly so.
>>> Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal evidence >>> similar to the above?
>>> Bret Cahill
>Sure, back in the 80's me and a fraternity friend double dated and went bar hopping through the >French Quarter.
You went to college? Can you get your money back?
>Once we were done with the popular sites, we went to the outskirts. On Rampart >street a couple blocks off of Canal street we found a bar that looked interesting, so we parked >and went in. Well, it was a Gay bar. While they tolerated us for the first drink, it was obvious >that we were not welcome by the owner, the bar keep and the patrons when we ordered the second >drink.
So let's see here. You had already visited a number of different bars before coming across this one and if your behavior at this one is any indication then you also had a couple of drinks at each of the other bars (that *didn't* throw you out). And you were still driving at that! It appears as though you were just as much a reckless ass hole back then as you are now.
We already know that you are an obnoxious blowhard. I can only imagine what you would be like as a drunk obnoxious blowhard.
>I had no problem associating with, having a good time with them or being around so many gay >people. It was them that made it clear that we were not welcome. So we paid for the second >drinks and politely left.
So, how many drinks would these two additional ones would these two make it before you yet again got into your car and drove? Perhaps this had something to do with your chilly reception.
>Needles to say that left a lasting impression on all of us many years latter. Especially when >Gays claim they want to be like everyone else.
I too am straight and have also visited a number of gay bars with a female companion and have never been turned away or even shunned in any way whatsoever. Perhaps in your case it is just because you are you.
>Because it is the same today as it was back then. Gays want respect but are not willing to give >respect to others in return.
Yes you do like your hasty conclusions, don't you.
>If gays say this is a free country and they should be treated as everyone else, then why we not >welcome in a public bar? They were treating us as bad as they claim heterosexuals treat them.
A drunk ass hole is a drunk ass hole in any type of bar.
> Bret Cahill wrote: > >> A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to a gay > >> bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to leave, maybe > >> properly so.
> >> Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal evidence > >> similar to the above?
> >> Bret Cahill
> Sure, back in the 80's me and a fraternity friend double dated and went bar hopping through the > French Quarter. Once we were done with the popular sites, we went to the outskirts. On Rampart > street a couple blocks off of Canal street we found a bar that looked interesting, so we parked > and went in. Well, it was a Gay bar. While they tolerated us for the first drink, it was obvious > that we were not welcome by the owner, the bar keep and the patrons when we ordered the second > drink.
> I had no problem associating with, having a good time with them or being around so many gay > people. It was them that made it clear that we were not welcome. So we paid for the second > drinks and politely left.
> Needles to say that left a lasting impression on all of us many years latter. Especially when > Gays claim they want to be like everyone else.
> Because it is the same today as it was back then. Gays want respect but are not willing to give > respect to others in return.
> If gays say this is a free country and they should be treated as everyone else, then why we not > welcome in a public bar? They were treating us as bad as they claim heterosexuals treat them.
> There is some anecdotal evidence for your study > --
> It is all about the truth with: > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ·.¸Adman¸.· > ^^^^^^^^^^^
So let me get this straight: you were college age drinkers, you went to "the popular sites" - ergo you were stupid drunk - and in retrospect you still think you were "having a good time with them" and the reason everyone was looking at you funny was your straightness?
Age doesn't *necessarily* bring wisdom, does it.
"I do not approve of anything that tampers with natural ignorance. Ignorance is like a delicate exotic fruit; touch it and the bloom is gone." - Oscar Wilde
Bret Cahill wrote: >>>> A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to a >>>> gay bar and smooch. ?Eventually the bar owner asked them to leave, >>>> maybe properly so.
>>>> Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal >>>> evidence similar to the above?
>>>> Bret Cahill
>> Sure, back in the 80's me and a fraternity friend double dated and >> went bar hopping through the French Quarter. Once we were done with >> the popular sites, we went to the outskirts. On Rampart street a >> couple blocks off of Canal street we found a bar that looked >> interesting, so we parked and went in. Well, it was a Gay bar. While >> they tolerated us for the first drink, it was obvious that we were >> not welcome by the owner, the bar keep and the patrons when we >> ordered the second drink.
> A lot of bars don't want frat rats.
You do not understand. We had been out of college for 10 years.
>> I had no problem associating with, having a good time with them or >> being around so many gay people. It was them that made it clear that >> we were not welcome. So we paid for the second drinks and politely >> left.
>> Needles to say that left a lasting impression on all of us many >> years latter. Especially when Gays claim they want to be like >> everyone else.
>> Because it is the same today as it was back then. Gays want respect >> but are not willing to give respect to others in return.
> Next time a lesbian turns you down call her a "heterophobe" and > everything will be even steven.
It was a male gay bar.
Strike three.
The bottom line is, there behavior was poor
> Bret Cahill
--
It is all about the truth with: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ·.¸Adman¸.· ^^^^^^^^^^^
A.Carlson wrote: >> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:16:18 -0600, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@hotmail.ed> >> wrote:
>>> Bret Cahill wrote: >>>>> A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to a >>>>> gay bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to >>>>> leave, maybe properly so.
>>>>> Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal >>>>> evidence similar to the above?
>>>>> Bret Cahill
>>> Sure, back in the 80's me and a fraternity friend double dated and >>> went bar hopping through the French Quarter.
>> You went to college? Can you get your money back?
>>> Once we were done with the popular sites, we went to the outskirts. >>> On Rampart >>> street a couple blocks off of Canal street we found a bar that >>> looked interesting, so we parked and went in. Well, it was a Gay >>> bar. While they tolerated us for the first drink, it was obvious >>> that we were not welcome by the owner, the bar keep and the patrons >>> when we ordered the second drink.
>> So let's see here. You had already visited a number of different >> bars before coming across this one and if your behavior at this one >> is any indication then you also had a couple of drinks at each of >> the other bars (that *didn't* throw you out). And you were still >> driving at that! It appears as though you were just as much a >> reckless ass hole back then as you are now.
>> We already know that you are an obnoxious blowhard. I can only >> imagine what you would be like as a drunk obnoxious blowhard.
>>> I had no problem associating with, having a good time with them or >>> being around so many gay people. It was them that made it clear >>> that we were not welcome. So we paid for the second drinks and >>> politely left.
>> So, how many drinks would these two additional ones would these two >> make it before you yet again got into your car and drove? Perhaps >> this had something to do with your chilly reception.
>>> Needles to say that left a lasting impression on all of us many >>> years latter. Especially when Gays claim they want to be like >>> everyone else.
>> I too am straight and have also visited a number of gay bars with a >> female companion and have never been turned away or even shunned in >> any way whatsoever. Perhaps in your case it is just because you are >> you.
>>> Because it is the same today as it was back then. Gays want respect >>> but are not willing to give respect to others in return.
>> Yes you do like your hasty conclusions, don't you.
>>> If gays say this is a free country and they should be treated as >>> everyone else, then why we not welcome in a public bar? They were >>> treating us as bad as they claim heterosexuals treat them.
>> A drunk ass hole is a drunk ass hole in any type of bar.
>>> There is some anecdotal evidence for your study
Well, everyone else was tipsy. I would not call them drunk though.
I was the designated driver. So all I had to drink was cherry cokes
It seems that you just want to make shit up just to be as nasty as they were.
--
It is all about the truth with: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ·.¸Adman¸.· ^^^^^^^^^^^
Grandbank wrote: > On Nov 28, 10:16 am, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@hotmail.ed> wrote: >> Bret Cahill wrote: >>>> A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to a >>>> gay bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to leave, >>>> maybe properly so.
>>>> Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal >>>> evidence similar to the above?
>>>> Bret Cahill
>> Sure, back in the 80's me and a fraternity friend double dated and >> went bar hopping through the French Quarter. Once we were done with >> the popular sites, we went to the outskirts. On Rampart street a >> couple blocks off of Canal street we found a bar that looked >> interesting, so we parked and went in. Well, it was a Gay bar. While >> they tolerated us for the first drink, it was obvious that we were >> not welcome by the owner, the bar keep and the patrons when we >> ordered the second drink.
>> I had no problem associating with, having a good time with them or >> being around so many gay people. It was them that made it clear that >> we were not welcome. So we paid for the second drinks and politely >> left.
>> Needles to say that left a lasting impression on all of us many >> years latter. Especially when Gays claim they want to be like >> everyone else.
>> Because it is the same today as it was back then. Gays want respect >> but are not willing to give respect to others in return.
>> If gays say this is a free country and they should be treated as >> everyone else, then why we not welcome in a public bar? They were >> treating us as bad as they claim heterosexuals treat them.
>> There is some anecdotal evidence for your study >> --
>> It is all about the truth with: >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> ·.¸Adman¸.· >> ^^^^^^^^^^^
> So let me get this straight: you were college age drinkers, you went > to "the popular sites" - ergo you were stupid drunk - and in > retrospect you still think you were "having a good time with them" and > the reason everyone was looking at you funny was your straightness?
> Age doesn't *necessarily* bring wisdom, does it.
Nooooo... i said it was a fraternity friend. I did not say that we were still in school. Far from it.
And we did not realize is was a gay bar until after we ordered the second round of drinks.
I was the driver and had nothing to drink. They were behaving like fools, not us.
I clearly said we "politely" left as well.
So i wonder today, are ALL gays that nasty when they congergate? Are they nice to your hetro face yet hate you behind your backs?
It is all about the truth with: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ·.¸Adman¸.· ^^^^^^^^^^^
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:27:58 -0600, \(M\)-adman wrote: > Grandbank wrote: >> On Nov 28, 10:16 am, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@hotmail.ed> wrote: >>> Bret Cahill wrote: >>>>> A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to a >>>>> gay bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to leave, >>>>> maybe properly so.
>>>>> Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal >>>>> evidence similar to the above?
>>>>> Bret Cahill
>>> Sure, back in the 80's me and a fraternity friend double dated and >>> went bar hopping through the French Quarter. Once we were done with >>> the popular sites, we went to the outskirts. On Rampart street a >>> couple blocks off of Canal street we found a bar that looked >>> interesting, so we parked and went in. Well, it was a Gay bar. While >>> they tolerated us for the first drink, it was obvious that we were not >>> welcome by the owner, the bar keep and the patrons when we ordered the >>> second drink.
>>> I had no problem associating with, having a good time with them or >>> being around so many gay people. It was them that made it clear that >>> we were not welcome. So we paid for the second drinks and politely >>> left.
>>> Needles to say that left a lasting impression on all of us many years >>> latter. Especially when Gays claim they want to be like everyone else.
>>> Because it is the same today as it was back then. Gays want respect >>> but are not willing to give respect to others in return.
>>> If gays say this is a free country and they should be treated as >>> everyone else, then why we not welcome in a public bar? They were >>> treating us as bad as they claim heterosexuals treat them.
>>> There is some anecdotal evidence for your study --
>>> It is all about the truth with: >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>> ·.žAdmanž.· >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>> So let me get this straight: you were college age drinkers, you went >> to "the popular sites" - ergo you were stupid drunk - and in retrospect >> you still think you were "having a good time with them" and the reason >> everyone was looking at you funny was your straightness?
>> Age doesn't *necessarily* bring wisdom, does it.
> Nooooo... i said it was a fraternity friend. I did not say that we were > still in school. Far from it.
> And we did not realize is was a gay bar until after we ordered the > second round of drinks.
> I was the driver and had nothing to drink. They were behaving like > fools, not us.
> I clearly said we "politely" left as well.
> So i wonder today, are ALL gays that nasty when they congergate? Are > they nice to your hetro face yet hate you behind your backs?
They were being tribal. Bars are like that. Not all bars, but most bars are like that. They cater to their regulars, they have customs and rituals, and people go there to participate in that community, not to be observed by spectators, however harmless and well-intentioned.
I was raised from the cradle a Yankees fan, and I have lived in the Boston area for roughly four decades, but I have never felt welcome in a Boston sports bar. I am not a member of that community. I once went into a neighborhood bar in South Boston. Won't do that again, either. It's not personal, is what I'm saying, it's that a bar is a society, and it takes a while to be admitted even when you meet all the qualifications.
Think about the other bars you went to. Would you have felt so welcome if you and your friends had been a pair of gay couples? Were there any gay couples in those bars?
On Nov 28, 7:54 am, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
> A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to a gay > bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to leave, maybe > properly so.
> Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal evidence > similar to the above?
> Bret Cahill
Are you trying to say that all times when any people enter a gay bar are times when there is necessarily some gay part of their sexual identity? What if they go in just to get out of the rain or they are taking classes on sexual history etc...? This leads me to believe that some times but not all times are times when the motive to go somewhere can necessarily determine sexual orientation.
John McKendry wrote: > On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:27:58 -0600, \(M\)-adman wrote:
>> Grandbank wrote: >>> On Nov 28, 10:16 am, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@hotmail.ed> wrote: >>>> Bret Cahill wrote: >>>>>> A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to a >>>>>> gay bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to leave, >>>>>> maybe properly so.
>>>>>> Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal >>>>>> evidence similar to the above?
>>>>>> Bret Cahill
>>>> Sure, back in the 80's me and a fraternity friend double dated and >>>> went bar hopping through the French Quarter. Once we were done with >>>> the popular sites, we went to the outskirts. On Rampart street a >>>> couple blocks off of Canal street we found a bar that looked >>>> interesting, so we parked and went in. Well, it was a Gay bar. >>>> While they tolerated us for the first drink, it was obvious that >>>> we were not welcome by the owner, the bar keep and the patrons >>>> when we ordered the second drink.
>>>> I had no problem associating with, having a good time with them or >>>> being around so many gay people. It was them that made it clear >>>> that we were not welcome. So we paid for the second drinks and >>>> politely left.
>>>> Needles to say that left a lasting impression on all of us many >>>> years latter. Especially when Gays claim they want to be like >>>> everyone else.
>>>> Because it is the same today as it was back then. Gays want respect >>>> but are not willing to give respect to others in return.
>>>> If gays say this is a free country and they should be treated as >>>> everyone else, then why we not welcome in a public bar? They were >>>> treating us as bad as they claim heterosexuals treat them.
>>>> There is some anecdotal evidence for your study --
>>>> It is all about the truth with: >>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>>> ·.zAdmanz.· >>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> So let me get this straight: you were college age drinkers, you >>> went to "the popular sites" - ergo you were stupid drunk - and in >>> retrospect you still think you were "having a good time with them" >>> and the reason everyone was looking at you funny was your >>> straightness?
>>> Age doesn't *necessarily* bring wisdom, does it.
>> Nooooo... i said it was a fraternity friend. I did not say that we >> were still in school. Far from it.
>> And we did not realize is was a gay bar until after we ordered the >> second round of drinks.
>> I was the driver and had nothing to drink. They were behaving like >> fools, not us.
>> I clearly said we "politely" left as well.
>> So i wonder today, are ALL gays that nasty when they congergate? Are >> they nice to your hetro face yet hate you behind your backs?
> They were being tribal. Bars are like that. Not all bars, but most > bars are like that. They cater to their regulars, they have customs > and rituals, and people go there to participate in that community, > not to be observed by spectators, however harmless and > well-intentioned.
We were not making "observations" , we were there to have fun like everyone else.Had we been recieved by them, we were more then ready to recieve them back. In fact we discussed that after the fact. We could not believe that simply walking into a "public" bar that we did not know was a homosexual bar, would bring so much hostility .
There is no excuse for behavior like that regardless if you want to call it tribal or not=---- unless you want to hold one group to a higher standard then another group.
The fact is, we went into a public bar and was discriminated against. BTW. with the same type of discrimination Gays Say they hate. Which BTW is the same type of discrimination ALL minorties say they hate.
Standards that apply to one should be applied to all.
> I was raised from the cradle a Yankees fan, and I have lived in the > Boston area for roughly four decades, but I have never felt welcome > in a Boston sports bar. I am not a member of that community. I once > went into a neighborhood bar in South Boston. Won't do that again, > either. It's not personal, is what I'm saying, it's that a bar is > a society, and it takes a while to be admitted even when you meet > all the qualifications.
You are making excuses for poor behavior.
> Think about the other bars you went to. Would you have felt so welcome > if you and your friends had been a pair of gay couples? Were there > any gay couples in those bars?
If they do not have sex on top of the pool table, WHO cares?
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:27:58 -0600, \(M\)-adman wrote: > > Grandbank wrote: > >> On Nov 28, 10:16 am, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@hotmail.ed> wrote: > >>> Bret Cahill wrote: > >>>>> A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to a > >>>>> gay bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to leave, > >>>>> maybe properly so.
> >>>>> Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal > >>>>> evidence similar to the above?
> >>>>> Bret Cahill
> >>> Sure, back in the 80's me and a fraternity friend double dated and > >>> went bar hopping through the French Quarter. Once we were done with > >>> the popular sites, we went to the outskirts. On Rampart street a > >>> couple blocks off of Canal street we found a bar that looked > >>> interesting, so we parked and went in. Well, it was a Gay bar. While > >>> they tolerated us for the first drink, it was obvious that we were not > >>> welcome by the owner, the bar keep and the patrons when we ordered the > >>> second drink.
> >>> I had no problem associating with, having a good time with them or > >>> being around so many gay people. It was them that made it clear that > >>> we were not welcome. So we paid for the second drinks and politely > >>> left.
> >>> Needles to say that left a lasting impression on all of us many years > >>> latter. Especially when Gays claim they want to be like everyone else.
> >>> Because it is the same today as it was back then. Gays want respect > >>> but are not willing to give respect to others in return.
> >>> If gays say this is a free country and they should be treated as > >>> everyone else, then why we not welcome in a public bar? They were > >>> treating us as bad as they claim heterosexuals treat them.
> >>> There is some anecdotal evidence for your study --
> >>> It is all about the truth with: > >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >>> ·.žAdmanž.· > >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> So let me get this straight: you were college age drinkers, you went > >> to "the popular sites" - ergo you were stupid drunk - and in retrospect > >> you still think you were "having a good time with them" and the reason > >> everyone was looking at you funny was your straightness?
> >> Age doesn't *necessarily* bring wisdom, does it.
> > Nooooo... i said it was a fraternity friend. I did not say that we were > > still in school. Far from it.
> > And we did not realize is was a gay bar until after we ordered the > > second round of drinks.
> > I was the driver and had nothing to drink. They were behaving like > > fools, not us.
> > I clearly said we "politely" left as well.
> > So i wonder today, are ALL gays that nasty when they congergate? Are > > they nice to your hetro face yet hate you behind your backs?
> They were being tribal. Bars are like that. Not all bars, but most > bars are like that. They cater to their regulars, they have customs > and rituals, and people go there to participate in that community, > not to be observed by spectators, however harmless and well-intentioned.
> I was raised from the cradle a Yankees fan, and I have lived in the > Boston area for roughly four decades, but I have never felt welcome > in a Boston sports bar. I am not a member of that community. I once > went into a neighborhood bar in South Boston. Won't do that again, > either. It's not personal, is what I'm saying, it's that a bar is > a society, and it takes a while to be admitted even when you meet > all the qualifications.
> Think about the other bars you went to. Would you have felt so welcome > if you and your friends had been a pair of gay couples? Were there > any gay couples in those bars?
There are lots of exceptions though. There was a time when Partners,' a gay bar in the Yale neighborhood, had very good food. The woman I as living with at the time and I never felt unwelcome going there for dinner. Lots of other straight people ate there. It might be that the atmosphere might have changed after the dinner hour for unknown straight people who just dropped by but those of us who had dinner there often stayed to drink afterward and never were made to feel unwelcome. There was another gay bar a few blocks away where I played pool once in awhile and again never had a problem. But I have worn my Yankee hat to Fenway Park many times and no one has bothered me. I guess I'm just likeable.
> On Nov 28, 5:31 pm, John McKendry <jlastn...@comcast.dot.net> wrote: >> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:27:58 -0600, \(M\)-adman wrote: >>> Grandbank wrote: >>>> On Nov 28, 10:16 am, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@hotmail.ed> wrote: >>>>> Bret Cahill wrote: >>>>>>> A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to >>>>>>> a gay bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to >>>>>>> leave, maybe properly so.
>>>>>>> Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal >>>>>>> evidence similar to the above?
>>>>>>> Bret Cahill
>>>>> Sure, back in the 80's me and a fraternity friend double dated and >>>>> went bar hopping through the French Quarter. Once we were done >>>>> with the popular sites, we went to the outskirts. On Rampart >>>>> street a couple blocks off of Canal street we found a bar that >>>>> looked interesting, so we parked and went in. Well, it was a Gay >>>>> bar. While they tolerated us for the first drink, it was obvious >>>>> that we were not welcome by the owner, the bar keep and the >>>>> patrons when we ordered the second drink.
>>>>> I had no problem associating with, having a good time with them or >>>>> being around so many gay people. It was them that made it clear >>>>> that we were not welcome. So we paid for the second drinks and >>>>> politely left.
>>>>> Needles to say that left a lasting impression on all of us many >>>>> years latter. Especially when Gays claim they want to be like >>>>> everyone else.
>>>>> Because it is the same today as it was back then. Gays want >>>>> respect but are not willing to give respect to others in return.
>>>>> If gays say this is a free country and they should be treated as >>>>> everyone else, then why we not welcome in a public bar? They were >>>>> treating us as bad as they claim heterosexuals treat them.
>>>>> There is some anecdotal evidence for your study --
>>>>> It is all about the truth with: >>>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>>>> ·.žAdmanž.· >>>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>> So let me get this straight: you were college age drinkers, you >>>> went to "the popular sites" - ergo you were stupid drunk - and in >>>> retrospect you still think you were "having a good time with them" >>>> and the reason everyone was looking at you funny was your >>>> straightness?
>>>> Age doesn't *necessarily* bring wisdom, does it.
>>> Nooooo... i said it was a fraternity friend. I did not say that we >>> were still in school. Far from it.
>>> And we did not realize is was a gay bar until after we ordered the >>> second round of drinks.
>>> I was the driver and had nothing to drink. They were behaving like >>> fools, not us.
>>> I clearly said we "politely" left as well.
>>> So i wonder today, are ALL gays that nasty when they congergate? Are >>> they nice to your hetro face yet hate you behind your backs?
>> They were being tribal. Bars are like that. Not all bars, but most >> bars are like that. They cater to their regulars, they have customs >> and rituals, and people go there to participate in that community, >> not to be observed by spectators, however harmless and >> well-intentioned.
>> I was raised from the cradle a Yankees fan, and I have lived in the >> Boston area for roughly four decades, but I have never felt welcome >> in a Boston sports bar. I am not a member of that community. I once >> went into a neighborhood bar in South Boston. Won't do that again, >> either. It's not personal, is what I'm saying, it's that a bar is >> a society, and it takes a while to be admitted even when you meet >> all the qualifications.
>> Think about the other bars you went to. Would you have felt so >> welcome if you and your friends had been a pair of gay couples? Were >> there >> any gay couples in those bars?
> There are lots of exceptions though. There was a time when Partners,' > a gay bar in the Yale neighborhood, had very good food. The woman I as > living with at the time and I never felt unwelcome going there for > dinner. Lots of other straight people ate there. It might be that the > atmosphere might have changed after the dinner hour for unknown > straight people who just dropped by but those of us who had dinner > there often stayed to drink afterward and never were made to feel > unwelcome. There was another gay bar a few blocks away where I played > pool once in awhile and again never had a problem. But I have worn my > Yankee hat to Fenway Park many times and no one has bothered me. I > guess I'm just likeable.
If your money is good enough to be treated "nice" dropping by during the dinner time, then why is your money not good enough to be treated nice if you drop by " after the dinner hour"?
Let a straight restaurant/bar even remotely make a "gay" feel unwelcome at anytime and the shit hits the fan.
There are too many double standards in America today. --
It is all about the truth with: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ·.¸Adman¸.· ^^^^^^^^^^^
> > On Nov 28, 5:31 pm, John McKendry <jlastn...@comcast.dot.net> wrote: > >> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:27:58 -0600, \(M\)-adman wrote: > >>> Grandbank wrote: > >>>> On Nov 28, 10:16 am, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@hotmail.ed> wrote: > >>>>> Bret Cahill wrote: > >>>>>>> A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to > >>>>>>> a gay bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to > >>>>>>> leave, maybe properly so.
> >>>>>>> Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal > >>>>>>> evidence similar to the above?
> >>>>>>> Bret Cahill
> >>>>> Sure, back in the 80's me and a fraternity friend double dated and > >>>>> went bar hopping through the French Quarter. Once we were done > >>>>> with the popular sites, we went to the outskirts. On Rampart > >>>>> street a couple blocks off of Canal street we found a bar that > >>>>> looked interesting, so we parked and went in. Well, it was a Gay > >>>>> bar. While they tolerated us for the first drink, it was obvious > >>>>> that we were not welcome by the owner, the bar keep and the > >>>>> patrons when we ordered the second drink.
> >>>>> I had no problem associating with, having a good time with them or > >>>>> being around so many gay people. It was them that made it clear > >>>>> that we were not welcome. So we paid for the second drinks and > >>>>> politely left.
> >>>>> Needles to say that left a lasting impression on all of us many > >>>>> years latter. Especially when Gays claim they want to be like > >>>>> everyone else.
> >>>>> Because it is the same today as it was back then. Gays want > >>>>> respect but are not willing to give respect to others in return.
> >>>>> If gays say this is a free country and they should be treated as > >>>>> everyone else, then why we not welcome in a public bar? They were > >>>>> treating us as bad as they claim heterosexuals treat them.
> >>>>> There is some anecdotal evidence for your study --
> >>>>> It is all about the truth with: > >>>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >>>>> ·.žAdmanž.· > >>>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>>> So let me get this straight: you were college age drinkers, you > >>>> went to "the popular sites" - ergo you were stupid drunk - and in > >>>> retrospect you still think you were "having a good time with them" > >>>> and the reason everyone was looking at you funny was your > >>>> straightness?
> >>>> Age doesn't *necessarily* bring wisdom, does it.
> >>> Nooooo... i said it was a fraternity friend. I did not say that we > >>> were still in school. Far from it.
> >>> And we did not realize is was a gay bar until after we ordered the > >>> second round of drinks.
> >>> I was the driver and had nothing to drink. They were behaving like > >>> fools, not us.
> >>> I clearly said we "politely" left as well.
> >>> So i wonder today, are ALL gays that nasty when they congergate? Are > >>> they nice to your hetro face yet hate you behind your backs?
> >> They were being tribal. Bars are like that. Not all bars, but most > >> bars are like that. They cater to their regulars, they have customs > >> and rituals, and people go there to participate in that community, > >> not to be observed by spectators, however harmless and > >> well-intentioned.
> >> I was raised from the cradle a Yankees fan, and I have lived in the > >> Boston area for roughly four decades, but I have never felt welcome > >> in a Boston sports bar. I am not a member of that community. I once > >> went into a neighborhood bar in South Boston. Won't do that again, > >> either. It's not personal, is what I'm saying, it's that a bar is > >> a society, and it takes a while to be admitted even when you meet > >> all the qualifications.
> >> Think about the other bars you went to. Would you have felt so > >> welcome if you and your friends had been a pair of gay couples? Were > >> there > >> any gay couples in those bars?
> > There are lots of exceptions though. There was a time when Partners,' > > a gay bar in the Yale neighborhood, had very good food. The woman I as > > living with at the time and I never felt unwelcome going there for > > dinner. Lots of other straight people ate there. It might be that the > > atmosphere might have changed after the dinner hour for unknown > > straight people who just dropped by but those of us who had dinner > > there often stayed to drink afterward and never were made to feel > > unwelcome. There was another gay bar a few blocks away where I played > > pool once in awhile and again never had a problem. But I have worn my > > Yankee hat to Fenway Park many times and no one has bothered me. I > > guess I'm just likeable.
> If your money is good enough to be treated "nice" dropping by during the dinner time, then why > is your money not good enough to be treated nice if you drop by " after the dinner hour"?
> Let a straight restaurant/bar even remotely make a "gay" feel unwelcome at anytime and the shit > hits the fan.
> There are too many double standards in America today. > --
was it the gays who voted to ban straight marriage in CA recently?
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 18:26:40 -0600, Uriel wrote: > John McKendry wrote: >> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:27:58 -0600, \(M\)-adman wrote:
>>> Grandbank wrote: >>>> On Nov 28, 10:16 am, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@hotmail.ed> wrote: >>>>> Bret Cahill wrote: >>>>>>> A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to a >>>>>>> gay bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to leave, >>>>>>> maybe properly so.
>>>>>>> Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal >>>>>>> evidence similar to the above?
>>>>>>> Bret Cahill
>>>>> Sure, back in the 80's me and a fraternity friend double dated and >>>>> went bar hopping through the French Quarter. Once we were done with >>>>> the popular sites, we went to the outskirts. On Rampart street a >>>>> couple blocks off of Canal street we found a bar that looked >>>>> interesting, so we parked and went in. Well, it was a Gay bar. While >>>>> they tolerated us for the first drink, it was obvious that we were >>>>> not welcome by the owner, the bar keep and the patrons when we >>>>> ordered the second drink.
>>>>> I had no problem associating with, having a good time with them or >>>>> being around so many gay people. It was them that made it clear that >>>>> we were not welcome. So we paid for the second drinks and politely >>>>> left.
>>>>> Needles to say that left a lasting impression on all of us many >>>>> years latter. Especially when Gays claim they want to be like >>>>> everyone else.
>>>>> Because it is the same today as it was back then. Gays want respect >>>>> but are not willing to give respect to others in return.
>>>>> If gays say this is a free country and they should be treated as >>>>> everyone else, then why we not welcome in a public bar? They were >>>>> treating us as bad as they claim heterosexuals treat them.
>>>>> There is some anecdotal evidence for your study --
>>>>> It is all about the truth with: >>>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>>>> ·.zAdmanz.· >>>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>> So let me get this straight: you were college age drinkers, you went >>>> to "the popular sites" - ergo you were stupid drunk - and in >>>> retrospect you still think you were "having a good time with them" >>>> and the reason everyone was looking at you funny was your >>>> straightness?
>>>> Age doesn't *necessarily* bring wisdom, does it.
>>> Nooooo... i said it was a fraternity friend. I did not say that we >>> were still in school. Far from it.
>>> And we did not realize is was a gay bar until after we ordered the >>> second round of drinks.
>>> I was the driver and had nothing to drink. They were behaving like >>> fools, not us.
>>> I clearly said we "politely" left as well.
>>> So i wonder today, are ALL gays that nasty when they congergate? Are >>> they nice to your hetro face yet hate you behind your backs?
>> They were being tribal. Bars are like that. Not all bars, but most bars >> are like that. They cater to their regulars, they have customs and >> rituals, and people go there to participate in that community, not to >> be observed by spectators, however harmless and well-intentioned.
> We were not making "observations" , we were there to have fun like > everyone else.Had we been recieved by them, we were more then ready to > recieve them back. In fact we discussed that after the fact. We could > not believe that simply walking into a "public" bar that we did not know > was a homosexual bar, would bring so much hostility .
> There is no excuse for behavior like that regardless if you want to call > it tribal or not=---- unless you want to hold one group to a higher > standard then another group.
> The fact is, we went into a public bar and was discriminated against. > BTW. with the same type of discrimination Gays Say they hate. Which BTW > is the same type of discrimination ALL minorties say they hate.
> Standards that apply to one should be applied to all.
You were flaunting your sexual orientation, acting straight, in a place where your orientation made you a minority, and people made you feel unwelcome. Now you know what it feels like. It sucks, doesn't it?
Some people, when they have had similar experiences, would think "Oh, this is what it feels like to be gay in a majority-straight society". Why does that thought not occur to you? Why are you so obsessed with the wrong done to you, and so unwilling to see the same wrong when it's done to others?
>> I was raised from the cradle a Yankees fan, and I have lived in the >> Boston area for roughly four decades, but I have never felt welcome in >> a Boston sports bar. I am not a member of that community. I once went >> into a neighborhood bar in South Boston. Won't do that again, either. >> It's not personal, is what I'm saying, it's that a bar is a society, >> and it takes a while to be admitted even when you meet all the >> qualifications.
> You are making excuses for poor behavior.
No, I don't think that Red Sox fans and working-class Boston Irish Catholics have an obligation to include me as a drinking buddy. I can and do wish for world where everyone is treated with respect, regardless of race, creed, sex, sexual orientation, age, job, political party, nationality, or baseball affiliation, but that world is a long way off, and it's not going to arrive any faster if I wait for everyone else to get rid of their prejudices first.
>> Think about the other bars you went to. Would you have felt so welcome >> if you and your friends had been a pair of gay couples? Were there any >> gay couples in those bars?
> If they do not have sex on top of the pool table, WHO cares?
You didn't answer my questions. There were two of them.
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 13:10:08 -0800, Grandbank wrote: > On Nov 28, 10:16 am, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@hotmail.ed> wrote: >> Bret Cahill wrote: >> >> A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to a >> >> gay bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to leave, >> >> maybe properly so.
>> >> Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal >> >> evidence similar to the above?
>> >> Bret Cahill
>> Sure, back in the 80's me and a fraternity friend double dated and went >> bar hopping through the French Quarter. Once we were done with the >> popular sites, we went to the outskirts. On Rampart street a couple >> blocks off of Canal street we found a bar that looked interesting, so >> we parked and went in. Well, it was a Gay bar. While they tolerated us >> for the first drink, it was obvious that we were not welcome by the >> owner, the bar keep and the patrons when we ordered the second drink.
>> I had no problem associating with, having a good time with them or >> being around so many gay people. It was them that made it clear that we >> were not welcome. So we paid for the second drinks and politely left.
>> Needles to say that left a lasting impression on all of us many years >> latter. Especially when Gays claim they want to be like everyone else.
>> Because it is the same today as it was back then. Gays want respect but >> are not willing to give respect to others in return.
>> If gays say this is a free country and they should be treated as >> everyone else, then why we not welcome in a public bar? They were >> treating us as bad as they claim heterosexuals treat them.
>> There is some anecdotal evidence for your study --
>> It is all about the truth with: >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> ·.¸Adman¸.· >> ^^^^^^^^^^^
> So let me get this straight: you were college age drinkers, you went to > "the popular sites" - ergo you were stupid drunk - and in retrospect you > still think you were "having a good time with them" and the reason > everyone was looking at you funny was your straightness?
You seriously think that adman's experience was unrelated to his sexual orientation? You don't think that straights in a gay bar would not be viewed with some degree of suspicion as being different, and some degree of paranoia and unwelcomeness which they might pick up on? Human nature is human nature. Try walking into a "redneck" bar with long hair and start talking loudly about your support for gun control and see what happens. Actually I did this a long time ago and I wasn't beat up, but I wasn't welcomed with opened arms either :-)
Humans tend to associate in groups, and tend to distrust people who are not a member of that group. Custom (and Christianity) teaches us to be hospitable to an individual member of the outgroup (cf. the good Samaritan). The harder part is being hospitable to the outgroup as a whole.
But this still doesn't help me understand Bret's original point.
> > A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to a gay > > bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to leave, maybe > > properly so.
> > Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal evidence > > similar to the above?
> > Bret Cahill
> Are you trying to say that all times when any people enter a gay bar > are times when there is necessarily some gay part of their sexual > identity?
I'm not even sure if the couple's action wasn't a fundy effort to convert the gays.
> >>>>>>> A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to > >>>>>>> a gay bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to > >>>>>>> leave, maybe properly so.
> >>>>>>> Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal > >>>>>>> evidence similar to the above?
> >>>>>>> Bret Cahill
> >>>>> Sure, back in the 80's me and a fraternity friend double dated and > >>>>> went bar hopping through the French Quarter. Once we were done > >>>>> with the popular sites, we went to the outskirts. On Rampart > >>>>> street a couple blocks off of Canal street we found a bar that > >>>>> looked interesting, so we parked and went in. Well, it was a Gay > >>>>> bar. While they tolerated us for the first drink, it was obvious > >>>>> that we were not welcome by the owner, the bar keep and the > >>>>> patrons when we ordered the second drink.
> >>>>> I had no problem associating with, having a good time with them or > >>>>> being around so many gay people. It was them that made it clear > >>>>> that we were not welcome. So we paid for the second drinks and > >>>>> politely left.
> >>>>> Needles to say that left a lasting impression on all of us many > >>>>> years latter. Especially when Gays claim they want to be like > >>>>> everyone else.
> >>>>> Because it is the same today as it was back then. Gays want > >>>>> respect but are not willing to give respect to others in return.
> >>>>> If gays say this is a free country and they should be treated as > >>>>> everyone else, then why we not welcome in a public bar? They were > >>>>> treating us as bad as they claim heterosexuals treat them.
> >>>>> There is some anecdotal evidence for your study --
> >>>>> It is all about the truth with: > >>>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >>>>> ·.žAdmanž.· > >>>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>>> So let me get this straight: you were college age drinkers, you > >>>> went to "the popular sites" - ergo you were stupid drunk - and in > >>>> retrospect you still think you were "having a good time with them" > >>>> and the reason everyone was looking at you funny was your > >>>> straightness?
> >>>> Age doesn't *necessarily* bring wisdom, does it.
> >>> Nooooo... i said it was a fraternity friend. I did not say that we > >>> were still in school. Far from it.
> >>> And we did not realize is was a gay bar until after we ordered the > >>> second round of drinks.
> >>> I was the driver and had nothing to drink. They were behaving like > >>> fools, not us.
> >>> I clearly said we "politely" left as well.
> >>> So i wonder today, are ALL gays that nasty when they congergate? Are > >>> they nice to your hetro face yet hate you behind your backs?
> >> They were being tribal. Bars are like that. Not all bars, but most > >> bars are like that. They cater to their regulars, they have customs > >> and rituals, and people go there to participate in that community, > >> not to be observed by spectators, however harmless and > >> well-intentioned.
> >> I was raised from the cradle a Yankees fan, and I have lived in the > >> Boston area for roughly four decades, but I have never felt welcome > >> in a Boston sports bar. I am not a member of that community. I once > >> went into a neighborhood bar in South Boston. Won't do that again, > >> either. It's not personal, is what I'm saying, it's that a bar is > >> a society, and it takes a while to be admitted even when you meet > >> all the qualifications.
> >> Think about the other bars you went to. Would you have felt so > >> welcome if you and your friends had been a pair of gay couples? Were > >> there > >> any gay couples in those bars?
> > There are lots of exceptions though. There was a time when Partners,' > > a gay bar in the Yale neighborhood, had very good food. The woman I as > > living with at the time and I never felt unwelcome going there for > > dinner. Lots of other straight people ate there. It might be that the > > atmosphere might have changed after the dinner hour for unknown > > straight people who just dropped by but those of us who had dinner > > there often stayed to drink afterward and never were made to feel > > unwelcome. There was another gay bar a few blocks away where I played > > pool once in awhile and again never had a problem. But I have worn my > > Yankee hat to Fenway Park many times and no one has bothered me. I > > guess I'm just likeable.
> If your money is good enough to be treated "nice" dropping by during the dinner time, then why > is your money not good enough to be treated nice if you drop by " after the dinner hour"?
> Let a straight restaurant/bar even remotely make a "gay" feel unwelcome at anytime and the shit > hits the fan.
The greatest danger to democracy is the tyranny of the majority. Gays aren't the majority.
> >> >> A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to a > >> >> gay bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to leave, > >> >> maybe properly so. > >> >> Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal > >> >> evidence similar to the above?
. . .
> But this still doesn't help me understand Bret's original point.
Was this just an isolated case or do a lot of straight couples benefit from some aphrodisiacal effect from gays and/or lesbians?
If so it might make the homophobes feel like the ultimate ingrates.
Obviously scientific research won't get fundies to think but if it could be established it might be a way to reduce homophobia in the rest of the population.
Fundies are only 10 - 20% of the population, yet 52% of Californians voted for Prop 8.
It's curious that such an imPOOORtant issue gush hyped by the corp. media 24/7 has never been properly researched.
(M)-adman wrote: > Bret Cahill wrote: >>> A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to a gay >>> bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to leave, maybe >>> properly so.
>>> Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal evidence >>> similar to the above?
>>> Bret Cahill
> Sure, back in the 80's me and a fraternity friend double dated and went bar hopping through the > French Quarter. Once we were done with the popular sites, we went to the outskirts. On Rampart > street a couple blocks off of Canal street we found a bar that looked interesting, so we parked > and went in. Well, it was a Gay bar. While they tolerated us for the first drink, it was obvious > that we were not welcome by the owner, the bar keep and the patrons when we ordered the second > drink.
> I had no problem associating with, having a good time with them or being around so many gay > people. It was them that made it clear that we were not welcome. So we paid for the second > drinks and politely left.
> Needles to say that left a lasting impression on all of us many years latter. Especially when > Gays claim they want to be like everyone else.
> Because it is the same today as it was back then. Gays want respect but are not willing to give > respect to others in return.
> If gays say this is a free country and they should be treated as everyone else, then why we not > welcome in a public bar? They were treating us as bad as they claim heterosexuals treat them.
> There is some anecdotal evidence for your study
> How did they know you were straight? Maybe it was your demeanor that irked them.
A.Carlson wrote: > On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:16:18 -0600, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@hotmail.ed> > wrote:
>> Bret Cahill wrote: >>>> A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to a gay >>>> bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to leave, maybe >>>> properly so.
>>>> Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal evidence >>>> similar to the above?
>>>> Bret Cahill >> Sure, back in the 80's me and a fraternity friend double dated and went bar hopping through the >> French Quarter.
> You went to college? Can you get your money back?
>> Once we were done with the popular sites, we went to the outskirts. On Rampart >> street a couple blocks off of Canal street we found a bar that looked interesting, so we parked >> and went in. Well, it was a Gay bar. While they tolerated us for the first drink, it was obvious >> that we were not welcome by the owner, the bar keep and the patrons when we ordered the second >> drink.
> So let's see here. You had already visited a number of different bars > before coming across this one and if your behavior at this one is any > indication then you also had a couple of drinks at each of the other > bars (that *didn't* throw you out). And you were still driving at > that! It appears as though you were just as much a reckless ass hole > back then as you are now.
> We already know that you are an obnoxious blowhard. I can only > imagine what you would be like as a drunk obnoxious blowhard.
>> I had no problem associating with, having a good time with them or being around so many gay >> people. It was them that made it clear that we were not welcome. So we paid for the second >> drinks and politely left.
> So, how many drinks would these two additional ones would these two > make it before you yet again got into your car and drove? Perhaps > this had something to do with your chilly reception.
>> Needles to say that left a lasting impression on all of us many years latter. Especially when >> Gays claim they want to be like everyone else.
> I too am straight and have also visited a number of gay bars with a > female companion and have never been turned away or even shunned in > any way whatsoever. Perhaps in your case it is just because you are > you.
>> Because it is the same today as it was back then. Gays want respect but are not willing to give >> respect to others in return.
> Yes you do like your hasty conclusions, don't you.
>> If gays say this is a free country and they should be treated as everyone else, then why we not >> welcome in a public bar? They were treating us as bad as they claim heterosexuals treat them.
> A drunk ass hole is a drunk ass hole in any type of bar.
>> There is some anecdotal evidence for your study
My guess is that the guys at the gay bar wouldn't have been able to tell if they were gay, bi or hetero without some sort of obvious cues. Just because guys walk in with girls means nothing. The girls could have been perceived as lesbian or the couples as bi swingers.
Misbehavior OTOH tends to get people thrown out of bars.
John McKendry wrote: > On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:27:58 -0600, \(M\)-adman wrote:
>> Grandbank wrote: >>> On Nov 28, 10:16 am, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@hotmail.ed> wrote: >>>> Bret Cahill wrote: >>>>>> A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to a >>>>>> gay bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to leave, >>>>>> maybe properly so. >>>>>> Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal >>>>>> evidence similar to the above? >>>>>> Bret Cahill >>>> Sure, back in the 80's me and a fraternity friend double dated and >>>> went bar hopping through the French Quarter. Once we were done with >>>> the popular sites, we went to the outskirts. On Rampart street a >>>> couple blocks off of Canal street we found a bar that looked >>>> interesting, so we parked and went in. Well, it was a Gay bar. While >>>> they tolerated us for the first drink, it was obvious that we were not >>>> welcome by the owner, the bar keep and the patrons when we ordered the >>>> second drink.
>>>> I had no problem associating with, having a good time with them or >>>> being around so many gay people. It was them that made it clear that >>>> we were not welcome. So we paid for the second drinks and politely >>>> left.
>>>> Needles to say that left a lasting impression on all of us many years >>>> latter. Especially when Gays claim they want to be like everyone else.
>>>> Because it is the same today as it was back then. Gays want respect >>>> but are not willing to give respect to others in return.
>>>> If gays say this is a free country and they should be treated as >>>> everyone else, then why we not welcome in a public bar? They were >>>> treating us as bad as they claim heterosexuals treat them.
>>>> There is some anecdotal evidence for your study --
>>>> It is all about the truth with: >>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>>> ·.žAdmanž.· >>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> So let me get this straight: you were college age drinkers, you went >>> to "the popular sites" - ergo you were stupid drunk - and in retrospect >>> you still think you were "having a good time with them" and the reason >>> everyone was looking at you funny was your straightness?
>>> Age doesn't *necessarily* bring wisdom, does it. >> Nooooo... i said it was a fraternity friend. I did not say that we were >> still in school. Far from it.
>> And we did not realize is was a gay bar until after we ordered the >> second round of drinks.
>> I was the driver and had nothing to drink. They were behaving like >> fools, not us.
>> I clearly said we "politely" left as well.
>> So i wonder today, are ALL gays that nasty when they congergate? Are >> they nice to your hetro face yet hate you behind your backs?
> They were being tribal. Bars are like that. Not all bars, but most > bars are like that. They cater to their regulars, they have customs > and rituals, and people go there to participate in that community, > not to be observed by spectators, however harmless and well-intentioned.
> I was raised from the cradle a Yankees fan, and I have lived in the > Boston area for roughly four decades, but I have never felt welcome > in a Boston sports bar. I am not a member of that community. I once > went into a neighborhood bar in South Boston. Won't do that again, > either. It's not personal, is what I'm saying, it's that a bar is > a society, and it takes a while to be admitted even when you meet > all the qualifications.
> Think about the other bars you went to. Would you have felt so welcome > if you and your friends had been a pair of gay couples? Were there > any gay couples in those bars?
> John
I'd hazard that if someone were to barhop in Boston wearing orange for St. Patrick's Day they would be treated lots more rudely than Madman and his friends in the gay bar.
> On Nov 28, 5:31 pm, John McKendry <jlastn...@comcast.dot.net> wrote: >> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:27:58 -0600, \(M\)-adman wrote: >>> Grandbank wrote: >>>> On Nov 28, 10:16 am, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@hotmail.ed> wrote: >>>>> Bret Cahill wrote: >>>>>>> A decade or so ago a straight couple found it romantic to go to a >>>>>>> gay bar and smooch. Eventually the bar owner asked them to leave, >>>>>>> maybe properly so. >>>>>>> Has anyone ever compiled a list that would include anecdotal >>>>>>> evidence similar to the above? >>>>>>> Bret Cahill >>>>> Sure, back in the 80's me and a fraternity friend double dated and >>>>> went bar hopping through the French Quarter. Once we were done with >>>>> the popular sites, we went to the outskirts. On Rampart street a >>>>> couple blocks off of Canal street we found a bar that looked >>>>> interesting, so we parked and went in. Well, it was a Gay bar. While >>>>> they tolerated us for the first drink, it was obvious that we were not >>>>> welcome by the owner, the bar keep and the patrons when we ordered the >>>>> second drink. >>>>> I had no problem associating with, having a good time with them or >>>>> being around so many gay people. It was them that made it clear that >>>>> we were not welcome. So we paid for the second drinks and politely >>>>> left. >>>>> Needles to say that left a lasting impression on all of us many years >>>>> latter. Especially when Gays claim they want to be like everyone else. >>>>> Because it is the same today as it was back then. Gays want respect >>>>> but are not willing to give respect to others in return. >>>>> If gays say this is a free country and they should be treated as >>>>> everyone else, then why we not welcome in a public bar? They were >>>>> treating us as bad as they claim heterosexuals treat them. >>>>> There is some anecdotal evidence for your study -- >>>>> It is all about the truth with: >>>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>>>> ·.žAdmanž.· >>>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^ >>>> So let me get this straight: you were college age drinkers, you went >>>> to "the popular sites" - ergo you were stupid drunk - and in retrospect >>>> you still think you were "having a good time with them" and the reason >>>> everyone was looking at you funny was your straightness? >>>> Age doesn't *necessarily* bring wisdom, does it. >>> Nooooo... i said it was a fraternity friend. I did not say that we were >>> still in school. Far from it. >>> And we did not realize is was a gay bar until after we ordered the >>> second round of drinks. >>> I was the driver and had nothing to drink. They were behaving like >>> fools, not us. >>> I clearly said we "politely" left as well. >>> So i wonder today, are ALL gays that nasty when they congergate? Are >>> they nice to your hetro face yet hate you behind your backs? >> They were being tribal. Bars are like that. Not all bars, but most >> bars are like that. They cater to their regulars, they have customs >> and rituals, and people go there to participate in that community, >> not to be observed by spectators, however harmless and well-intentioned.
>> I was raised from the cradle a Yankees fan, and I have lived in the >> Boston area for roughly four decades, but I have never felt welcome >> in a Boston sports bar. I am not a member of that community. I once >> went into a neighborhood bar in South Boston. Won't do that again, >> either. It's not personal, is what I'm saying, it's that a bar is >> a society, and it takes a while to be admitted even when you meet >> all the qualifications.
>> Think about the other bars you went to. Would you have felt so welcome >> if you and your friends had been a pair of gay couples? Were there >> any gay couples in those bars?
> There are lots of exceptions though. There was a time when Partners,' > a gay bar in the Yale neighborhood, had very good food. The woman I as > living with at the time and I never felt unwelcome going there for > dinner. Lots of other straight people ate there. It might be that the > atmosphere might have changed after the dinner hour for unknown > straight people who just dropped by but those of us who had dinner > there often stayed to drink afterward and never were made to feel > unwelcome. There was another gay bar a few blocks away where I played > pool once in awhile and again never had a problem. But I have worn my > Yankee hat to Fenway Park many times and no one has bothered me. I > guess I'm just likeable.
I was told in no uncertain terms by my aunt in the outskirts of Boston that if I was to step foot in her house I needed to remove my Dolphins hat.
I still don't see how the folks in the hypothetical gay bar cared to distinguish the people entering as heteros or gay/lesbian friends or as bi swingers without them making it obvious somehow via behavioral cues.
Gays could be sensitive to strangers, not knowing if others they are not familiar with are looking to start trouble. Maybe there was a nasty incident the night before and the regulars were on edge.
