Christian Evolution
Anders Lindman
If you treat me bad, I will treat you bad.
If you love me, I will love you.
If you hurt me, I will hurt you.
If you hate me as an enemy, I will hate you as an enemy.
If you take my eye, I will take your eye.
If you take my tooth, I will take your tooth.
If you strike me on the right cheek, I will turn you the other.
If you want to sue me and take my tunic, I will also give you my
cloak.
If you force me to go one mile, I will go with you two miles.
If you hate me as an enemy, I will love you.
If you persecute me, I will pray for you.
If you love me, I will not love you, because if I love those who love
me, what reward will I get? Are not even the tax collectors doing
that? And if I greet only my brothers, what am I doing more than
others? Do not even pagans do that?
Aron-Ra
"Anders Lindman" <anders_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bc8851ce.02091...@posting.google.com...
Have you noticed how many atheists fit the latter half of this? And visa
versa? Except for the praying part of course. Atheists would rather help
you in some way that will actually work.
Aron-Ra
Matt Silberstein
anders_...@hotmail.com (Anders Lindman):
What about this is either Christian or related to evolution?
--
Matt Silberstein
Observation favors the stable, the persistent
dkomo
The first part of it is an ESS (Evolutionary Stable Strategy) known as
"Tit-for_Tat". The second part of it is a game called "Suckers and
Cheaters" by Dawkins in _The Blind Watchmaker_. The idea is that a
Sucker will perform a boon for a Cheater, implicitly expecting the
Cheater to reciprocate. The Cheater, however, doesn't respond in kind
and runs away. The result is that the Cheater will gain some resource
and the Sucker will lose. The Sucker, however, doesn't change his
strategy. He continues to be a "Christian" toward Cheaters every time
he encounters them. Over a long period of time, the number of Suckers
in a population will decline while the Cheaters increase. At some
point when there are too many Cheaters, the whole population crashes.
Sorry if this sounds a bit cynical. It's only evolutionary game
theory
RHertz
"Anders Lindman" <anders_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bc8851ce.02091...@posting.google.com...
I am glad you see that your religion is principally about ethics and not
theology. Of course, there is not much difference between that and
Buddahism. Fundamentalists are different, though. They believe that a
person is "saved" even if there only virtue is faith, and that those whose
only vice is skepticism are condemn to eternal torment.
Anders Lindman
Yes, many christians are still not walking the path of non-violence.
/AL
>
> Aron-Ra
Anders Lindman
This is one view of OT vs NT in the Bible showing two paths. These are
two separate paths, one leading to violence leaving people blind and
toothless, the other leads to peace. The christian evolution will
follow one of these paths.
/AL
Anders Lindman
It is my firm belief that religious paths leading to non-violence are
pointing to the future. Violent paths have served their purpose in the
past, and mankind has been there, done that, and got the bloody
T-shirt. No progress or future are longer found in violent paths.
/AL
Matt Silberstein
Are you saying that Jewish practice leaves people blind and
toothless? And that the alternative to Christian evolution is
Jewish evolution? I guess that ZOG is related to the EAC. EAC
must be the subsidiary
John Wilkins
> In talk.origins I read this message from
> anders_...@hotmail.com (Anders Lindman):
>
> >Matt Silberstein <mat...@ix.netcom.com> wrote...
> >> In talk.origins I read this message from
> >> anders_...@hotmail.com (Anders Lindman):
....
> >This is one view of OT vs NT in the Bible showing two paths. These are
> >two separate paths, one leading to violence leaving people blind and
> >toothless, the other leads to peace. The christian evolution will
> >follow one of these paths.
>
> Are you saying that Jewish practice leaves people blind and
> toothless? And that the alternative to Christian evolution is
> Jewish evolution? I guess that ZOG is related to the EAC. EAC
> must be the subsidiary
Ah, these lower echelon operatives. Think they know it all.
Both the EAC and ZOG are subsidiaries of the Evil Persian Empire, which
never really went away, and which also sponsors the Bavarian Illuminati
and the Knights Templar.
The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy is an independent body, however...
--
John Wilkins
First grassy knoll on the right, near the overpass.
Anders Lindman
I believe all religions will evolve into more peaceful teachings, and
instead of competing with each other will merge into a common sense.
Of course, this may take a very long time.
/AL
Ng Pheng Siong
> The Sucker, however, doesn't change his
> strategy. He continues to be a "Christian" toward Cheaters every time
> he encounters them. Over a long period of time, the number of Suckers
> in a population will decline while the Cheaters increase.
Just think of it as "evolution in action." ;-)
--
Ng Pheng Siong <ng...@netmemetic.com> * http://www.netmemetic.com
Tom McHale
Re: Christian Evolution
Group: talk.origins Date: Thu, Sep 19, 2002, 1:20am (EDT+4) From:
RHer...@cox.rr.com (RHertz)
> Organized religion is a major part of big business. Big business is
government. They are exempt from taxation thus stealing from everyone
else including the atheist and agnostic. They have never spoken out
against the confiscation, tyranny and massive invasion of privacy
engendered by the personal income tax. Why , because they benefit by it.
If you would know the truth, always follow the money trail.
Faith is an irrational concept . If you would be rational, believe
nothing that lacks empirical evidence otherwise you will be taken in by
these organized con men perpetuating crass superstition and the havoc
this has created throughout history and continues to do so.
The Ghost In The Machine
<anders_...@hotmail.com>
wrote
on Wed, 18 Sep 2002 19:24:43 +0000 (UTC)
<bc8851ce.02091...@posting.google.com>:
If you confuse me, I will definitely confuse you! :-)
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
It's still legal to go .sigless.
Anders Lindman
Talking about confusion, I think many people have a problem
understanding many things Jesus said. We don't really know if there
actually was a person called Jesus that had a direct link to God, but
someone at least wrote down these words of "wisdom" almost 2000 years
ago.
Take for example the way Jesus talk about love. Can it really be any
wisdom in his strange messages about love?
What did he mean by saying that to love someone back is like doing
something tax collectors do? If we think of love as something
*between* two persons, then it perhaps becomes more clear what Jesus
meant. In this way, love is not a "possession" that can be given away
or received (like money, in the case of tax collectors). Instead love
would be something that spontaneously manifests as a feeling flowing
into both persons. This means that you cannot love something on
"command". If someone says to you: "You promised me to love me
forever", this would only work if you could "produce" love on command
or by creating the feeling of love by rational thinking. But you
cannot produce a feeling with rational thinking; try to create a
severe headache, or a pain in the neck by rational thinking alone. You
cannot. No more than you by rational thinking can make yourself happy,
peaceful and filled with joy in every moment.
So, the idea that you can "give" love is not possible. You can only
*try* to give love, but a true feeling of love will not always be
manifested in this way because you cannot give something you do not
have, and you don't "have" love as something that can be given away,
because love is not something that can be possessed. True love can
only manifest spontaneously when two individuals join to create
something larger than the individuals themselves. One good thing about
trying to give love without wanting something back (why would you want
something back, when love is not something that can be received by
demand?) is that it creates non-violence. Therefore Jesus said: "Love
your enemies". Of course, this would seldom create real love between
you and your enemy, but it would at least prevent an escalation of
aggression.
/AL
sds
> news:bc8851ce.02091...@posting.google.com...
> > If you treat me good, I will treat you good.
>
> I am glad you see that your religion is principally about ethics and not
> theology. Of course, there is not much difference between that and
> Buddahism. Fundamentalists are different, though. They believe that a
> person is "saved" even if there only virtue is faith,
Sorry to interrupt in mid-sentence. I just wanted to point out that,
according to my understanding of fundamental Christianity a saved person's
faith will result in much more virtue than his faith alone. Many good works
will follow from that faith in salvation. So, while your statement is
technically correct, the saved person's virtue will not be "only faith". He
will have much virtue which follows from that faith. Salvation is the
conversion that starts it all.
> and that those whose
> only vice is skepticism are condemn to eternal torment.
And on this side, AIUI, unsaved individuals are unable to overcome the "sin"
that permeates everything. So, it's not only their skepticism that puts
them in the "lost" category. It's the "sin nature" that is insurmountable
without accepting the help freely offered by God. IOW, it's *everything*
about them, since *everything* about them is imperfect. God only allows
perfection in His Kingdom. Unless we are perfect in his eyes, we aren't
allowed in.
Please forgive this small sermon here.
(BigDiscusser)
I am an 80 year old Christian lady. I am interested in a wide variety of
topics and am a retired RN.
http://community.webtv.net/JOJOYD/BigDiscusser
Jesus loves you.
John Chap 1 v 3
Colossians Chap 1 v 16, 17--defeats evolution with ADAPTATION by Jesus
who is IN His creation (not evolution) plus scientifically untouchable
classic morality, equals the DIVINE SYNTHESIS.
MUSLIMS NEED JESUS CHRIST AS THE SON OF GOD ALMIGHTY
Michael Painter
"(BigDiscusser)" <JOJ...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:25073-3D...@storefull-2314.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> Dear Anders, love is an act of the will. God bless, Jo Jean
>
> I am an 80 year old Christian lady. I am interested in a wide variety of
> topics and am a retired RN.
>
I wonder if she was a night nurse at the age of 40 or so?
David Ewan Kahana
> "(BigDiscusser)" <JOJ...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:25073-3D...@storefull-2314.public.lawson.webtv.net...
>> Dear Anders, love is an act of the will. God bless, Jo Jean
>>
>> I am an 80 year old Christian lady. I am interested in a wide variety
>> of topics and am a retired RN.
>>
> This twit has been 80 for a couple of years now.
>
> I wonder if she was a night nurse at the age of 40 or so?
Sometimes she's been 81, I think.
The thing that's worrying me is that she may *still* be
a night nurse, at the age of 40.
There's also such a thing as being unsafe, at any age.
cheers!
David
Anders Lindman
> Dear Anders, love is an act of the will. God bless, Jo Jean
You could be right of course, but in that case I think your act of
rational thinking will have to be integrated with your feelings. I
would call this wisdom. When a person reaches the level of wisdom
Jesus had, you will have no problem loving everything. But in truth, I
believe that this kind of wisdom is either a myth or that very few
people today have reached this level.
/AL
Aron-Ra
> Colossians Chap 1 v 16, 17--defeats evolution with ADAPTATION by Jesus
> who is IN His creation (not evolution)
Well I read that Paul Bunyon created the Grand Canyon and Pecos Bill dug
the Red river. How is your myth any different from theirs?
Aron-Ra
(BigDiscusser)
there is no dichotomy here--as we follow Him we learn more of love. God
bless, Jo Jean
(BigDiscusser)
in one of the lumber towns that got that myth really going--I think I
may have even ridden Babe the famed Blue Ox--I'm sure old enough!!!! God
bless, Jo Jean
I am an 80 year old Christian lady. I am interested in a wide variety of
topics and am a retired RN.
http://community.webtv.net/JOJOYD/BigDiscusser
Jesus loves you.
John Chap 1 v 3
Colossians Chap 1 v 16, 17--defeats evolution with ADAPTATION by Jesus
Chris Thompson
> Hey Aron, you're talkin my language--Paul Bunyon is my man--I was raised
> in one of the lumber towns that got that myth really going--I think I
> may have even ridden Babe the famed Blue Ox--I'm sure old enough!!!! God
> bless, Jo Jean
>
> I am an 80 year old Christian lady. I am interested in a wide variety of
> topics and am a retired RN.
>
Let's all take a clue here folks. THIS is what I call a substantive
response!
Chris
Anders Lindman
> Dear Anders, Jesus love for us integrates us body, mind and spirit--so
> there is no dichotomy here--as we follow Him we learn more of love. God
> bless, Jo Jean
To follow Jesus is just like crossing a stormy river in a boat. When
safely on the other side, the boat is no longer needed. Remember,
Jesus did only show as the way as an example, like Krishna and Buddha.
The real stuff is the Father. We are all a *part* of the Father, not
separate beings. Do not follow Jesus blindly, listen to what Jesus
told us; he was just a realised being and everyone can become just
like him. In that way Jesus was the same as you and I. Integrate with
the Father; that is what Jesus told us about. The Father is always
there, because the Father *is* every sparrow that falls and everything
that happens in the universe. God is *in* the rock, God is in the rock
too (was it Mahatma Gandhi who said this?). :-)
/AL
PhilWoch
> theology. Of course, there is not much difference between that and
> Buddahism. Fundamentalists are different, though. They believe that a
> person is "saved" even if there only virtue is faith, >>
<< Sorry to interrupt in mid-sentence. I just wanted to point out that,
according to my understanding of fundamental Christianity a saved person's
faith will result in much more virtue than his faith alone. Many good works
will follow from that faith in salvation. So, while your statement is
technically correct, the saved person's virtue will not be "only faith". He
will have much virtue which follows from that faith. Salvation is the
conversion that starts it all. >>
<< > and that those whose
> only vice is skepticism are condemn to eternal torment. >>
THe idea is that by faith one accepts the forgiveness for his or her sins,
which God has provided by becoming a mortal human, dying on a cross, taking the
punishment for our sins, and giving us His Spirit. He has provided this by His
grace, and you can accept it by faith.
Faith is not a good thing one gives to God, or does for God. Faith, in this
sense, is the acceptance of what God has done for you.
<< And on this side, AIUI, unsaved individuals are unable to overcome the "sin"
that permeates everything. So, it's not only their skepticism that puts
them in the "lost" category. It's the "sin nature" that is insurmountable
without accepting the help freely offered by God. IOW, it's *everything*
about them, since *everything* about them is imperfect. God only allows
perfection in His Kingdom. Unless we are perfect in his eyes, we aren't
allowed in.
Please forgive this small sermon here. >>
To accept His forgiveness, you have to in some way believe it.
SOGGYNETNUT
Would any one care to give a rough outline of savation history .
In other words what time line did these salvation formulas emerge .
I know it is not agreed on to this day what it takes to be saved . There is a a
split on faith and works for example .
My own thoughts are that Constatine the Great
wanted it to be easy to join as a Christian .
All you have to do is believe ,and if you dont then something horrible will
happen to you .
The join us or die campaign .
For something as simple on what it takes to be saved there is no certainity on
the subject .
The bible thumpers will shout out quotes .
But thereare no easy answers . The bible as we know it today did not roll off
the tounges of those poported to be quoted .
In other words it was a human struggle , with muddy human politics /
motivations and political power , power over the masses and mind control at
stake .
Dont forget that 3/4 of christian scriptures where thrown out and stampled
heretical .
What more of a glaring example does one need to understand that religion is
bent to our human will .
The simple minded need to question history , and authority ,and human motives .
Becuse one questions validity / authority doesnt mean your lost or going to
hell .