Re: AT&T Usenet Netnews Service Shutting Down
Klaus Hellnick
> Please note that on or around July 15, 2009, AT&T will no longer be
> offering access to the Usenet netnews service. If you wish to continue
> reading Usenet newsgroups, access is available through third-party
> vendors.
>
> Posted only internally to AT&T Usenet Servers.
>
WTF? AT&T just sent this notice. Is it for real? If my ISP no longer
will give usenet access, what would be a good alternative?
I know better than to try Google.
Klaus
John Harshman
> Please note that on or around July 15, 2009, AT&T will no longer be
> offering access to the Usenet netnews service. If you wish to continue
> reading Usenet newsgroups, access is available through third-party
> vendors.
>
> Posted only internally to AT&T Usenet Servers.
>
If anyone else can see this, can anyone recommend a good "third-party
vendor"?
rno...@umich.edu
Comcast did that to me about a year ago. Motzarella at
http://news.motzarella.org/
provides free access to text-only new groups except that there is
apparently some unexplained bad blood between them and dig. Dig has
the entire motzarella news server on the banned list and, in return,
Motzarella won't even try posting there. I use Motzarella to read a
dozen or so news groups including t.o. and for posting to all except
this one where I am forced into Google.
I, too, would appreciate hearing a a good, reliable, free server or,
better yet, have dig clear up whatever happened back in the paleozoic
to cause this problem.
QED
Time Warner did the same some time ago. The public posturing was that
they were fighting child porn, but most likely ISPs are retreating
from prosecution for DMCA infractions, a consequence of RIAA and MPAA
lobbying. With the waning popularity of Usenet, it probably costs
providers more to maintain news servers than loss of disgruntled
subscriber income. I had hoped they would at least keep non-binary
groups, but the demand just isn't there. A shame.
Allan Matthews
jharshman....@pacbell.net says...
I use GigaNews.
allan
--
allan_matthews[at]bigfoot[dot]com
=========================================
"And the moral of the story?
Don't leave things in the fridge."
=========================================
Allan Matthews
Kent Paul Dolan
> Klaus Hellnick <khellSPAMn...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> news-supp...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>>> Please note that on or around July 15, 2009, AT&T will no longer be
>>> offering access to the Usenet netnews service. If you wish to continue
>>> reading Usenet newsgroups, access is available through third-party
>>> vendors.
>>> Posted only internally to AT&T Usenet Servers.
>> WTF? AT&T just sent this notice. Is it for real?
>> If my ISP no longer will give usenet access, what
>> would be a good alternative?
First, vote with your feet. Get a new provider, and
tell the old one why you're leaving.
>> I know better than to try Google.
Google Groups is perfectly usable. I carried on a
voluminous Usenet presence for seven years using
_only_ Google Groups. It does have its nasty bits,
though, and is 1) poorly maintained, 2) frequently
down, 3) often misleading, and 4) non-trivial to learn.
>> Klaus
> Comcast did that to me about a year ago. Motzarella at
> provides free access to text-only new groups
> except that there is apparently some unexplained
> bad blood between them and dig. Dig has the
> entire motzarella news server on the banned list
> and, in return, Motzarella won't even try posting
> there. I use Motzarella to read a dozen or so
> news groups including t.o. and for posting to all
> except this one where I am forced into Google.
>
> I, too, would appreciate hearing a a good,
> reliable, free server or, better yet, have dig
> clear up whatever happened back in the paleozoic
> to cause this problem.
I use reader.albasani.net (sign up at
http://www.albasani.net) and nntp.aioe.org (sign up
at http://www.aioe.org/).
Both are free services.
The first one requires you to get from the
proprietors a (free) user-id and password, and
allows unlimited postings, but limits newsgroups and
followup-to line numbers of newsgroups. It has fairly
frequent, usually short outages, which is why I have
a second service I also use.
The second one just shows you the rules, names the
various ports available (half a dozen or so), and
lets you start using the service without ever
"signing up" or getting a login-id or a password.
However, it throttles posting to 25 postings per
day, and has a couple of other easy newsgroups line
and followup-to line contents restrictions.
Both are standard NNTP services, with both plain and
secure options. The secure options don't seem to
work well with my interface choice, Thunderbird, so
I use the plain option exclusively.
They'd probably work perfectly well with a trn()
client, or similar traditional interface, for
example.
HTH
xanthian.
Metspitzer
Just remember you get what you pay for.
I never found a free server I was happy with.
Quantum Leaper
I use http://albasani.net/ for a free newsgroup reader, its not web based
but NNTP based. I have found it be very reliable and very little downtime.
When Comcast cut the newsgroups, I had to go out and find another one, and
http://albasani.net/ was one of the better free ones I tried.
Kent Paul Dolan
> Just remember you get what you pay for.
Do you refuse to breathe, just because air is free,
or to visit web sites that do not charge you for
their use?
> I never found a free server I was happy with.
The phrase "house-poor" comes to mind.
If one is driven by constant discontent to purchase
ever more expensive solutions to an easily and
cheaply solved need, the end result is often
bankruptcy.
FWIW
xanthian.
Chris
I use Google because it's too much of a bother to port information
from work to home about threads I have read.
However, if it's available in your region, Earthlink still has free
Usenet access. In fact, they have two servers, one on each coast, and
if one goes down you can switch to the other. But that's only happened
once in about 10 years of use- they are pretty reliable. You can even
access their news servers remotely- which I understand is getting very
rare indeed.
Chris
rno...@umich.edu
> In article <DUhXl.5744$fD.4...@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com>,
> khellSPAMn...@sbcglobal.net says...
>
>
>
> > news-supp...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> > > Please note that on or around July 15, 2009, AT&T will no longer be
> > > offering access to the Usenet netnews service. If you wish to continue
> > > reading Usenet newsgroups, access is available through third-party
> > > vendors.
>
> > > Posted only internally to AT&T Usenet Servers.
>
> > WTF? AT&T just sent this notice. Is it for real? If my ISP no longer
> > will give usenet access, what would be a good alternative?
> > I know better than to try Google.
> > Klaus
>
> Giganews.
I think I may go back to paying for the cheapie version of Giganews, a
service I used to at times because comcast was not portable to
different locations, You can get a kickback by referring customers if
I use your login name, as described at http://www.giganews.com/referral_programs.html.
If you prefer not to release it to the world, you can email me -- my
listed address is valid. Or you can simply forgo the extra $20!
By the way, I did like Giganews which is why I might actually just pay
for it, the same way I paid for my Agent news reader. And if you get
a cut of the action, all the better.
Stephen
albasani http://albasani.net/
I only had to send them an email asking to have an account & they let
me :-) ...
No charge (so far) & it's been quite reliable. I've been with them
since Time Warner Road Runner shut down usenet access about a year ago.
Looks like all the "biggies" are getting out/have gotten out of the
usenet business.
Regards,
Stephen
--
jspa...@linuxquestions.net
have to email them to get an account setup. It's based on Germany,
and as Vince from ShamWow says "You know the Germans always make good
stuff."
J. Spaceman
r norman
motzarella is back in business -- whatever problems there were are now
fully resolved.
Thank you, dig, for fixing this.
Allen
news:15cdd90c-35ea-4757...@t10g2000vbg.googlegroups.com:
I'm surprised you don't have Usenet access through Umich.
Allen
r norman
wrote:
Here is what the University says about Usenet:
ITCS (Information Technology Central Services) is retiring its Usenet
News service (news.itd.umich.edu) during summer 2006. Use of the
service has dropped dramatically in recent years. The Usenet Team
suggests these alternatives:
People interested in still participating in the Usenet community can
both read and post articles through the use of Google Groups. (See the
Help for Google Groups for details.)
Those interested in continuing to use native Usenet clients can use
one of the publicly accessible servers. The Newzbot
(http://www.newzbot.com/) site publishes a database of public servers
and lets you search for the groups you're interested in.
Dick C.
news:00677914$0$32433$c3e...@news.astraweb.com:
> Test post.
>
> Fnord (for good measure).
sorry, almost passed except for the fnord
--
Dick #1349
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
~Benjamin Franklin
Home Page: dickcr.iwarp.com
email: dic...@gmail.com
Susan S
You take advice from a guy who was arrested for felony battery against a
woman?
Susan Silberstein
Klaus Hellnick
Isn't Vince in prison, for multiple rapes?
John Harshman
> Dick C. wrote:
>> Gene Poole <b...@dontmail.com> wrote in
>> news:00677914$0$32433$c3e...@news.astraweb.com:
>>> Klaus Hellnick wrote:
>>>> news-s...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>>>>> Please note that on or around July 15, 2009, AT&T will no longer be
>>>>> offering access to the Usenet netnews service. If you wish to
>>>>> continue reading Usenet newsgroups, access is available through
>>>>> third-party vendors.
>>>>>
>>>>> Posted only internally to AT&T Usenet Servers.
>>>>>
>>>> WTF? AT&T just sent this notice. Is it for real? If my ISP no longer
>>>> will give usenet access, what would be a good alternative?
>>>> I know better than to try Google.
>>>> Klaus
>>>>
>>> Test post.
>>>
>>> Fnord (for good measure).
>>
>> sorry, almost passed except for the fnord
>>
>
> submitted, but in light of your reply, I assume they ARE getting through.
>
> I'm testing Astraweb BTW. A friend uses it for binary newsgroups but it
> seems to work (at least sort-of) for T.O. Maybe I'll subscribe (US
> $11/mo) if the freebies don't meet my satisfaction (plus all the
> movies/songs/etc. I can eat).
If you were only interested in the newsgroup thing, Giganews offers
text-only groups for $2.99 a month. That's what I'm trying, being a
curmudgeon without interest in movies or songs. Mmph.
AC
Individual.Net is pretty good. The price is something like 15 euros a year,
so it's cheap. I've been using it for about three or four years now.
--
Aaron Clausen mightym...@gmail.com
Susan S
<khellS...@sbcglobal.net>:
No, but I read that he is an former Scientologist who sued the cult for
stealing money from him.
Susan Silberstein
Klaus Hellnick
I am sure he was convicted of rape and assault.
Anonymous
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Offer
"On February 7, 2009, Offer was arrested in Miami Beach, Florida on a
charge of felony battery after an altercation with a 26-year-old
prostitute. Offer, who appears in police reports under his real name
Vince Shlomi, contended that he struck the prostitute when she "bit his
tongue and would not let go." Prosecutors later declined to file formal
charges against either individual."
AC
Metspitzer
<inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
ShamWow!
The bloody pics on the internet were not pretty.
dave2020
> Path: news3.newsguy.com!extra.newsguy.com!num01.iad!npeer03.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!headwall.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!darwin.ediacara.org!there.is.no.cabal
> From: John Harshman <jharshman....@pacbell.net>
> Newsgroups: talk.origins,alt.test
> Subject: Re: Testing new server (was Re: AT&T Usenet Netnews Service Shutting
> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:07:17 -0700
> Organization: University of Ediacara
> Lines: 37
> Sender: ne...@darwin.ediacara.org
> Approved: rob...@ediacara.org
> Message-ID: <TtadnWGeJ-e...@giganews.com>
> References: <1244504406...@flph199.ffdc.sbc.com> <DUhXl.5744$fD....@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com> <00677914$0$32433$c3e...@news.astraweb.com> <Xns9C25D8488E79...@216.196.97.142> <005fd626$0$26599$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: darwin
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Trace: darwin.ediacara.org 1244647360 75330 128.100.83.246 (10 Jun 2009 15:22:40 GMT)
> X-Complaints-To: use...@darwin.ediacara.org
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:22:40 +0000 (UTC)
> X-Authentication-Warning: serv1.gc.dca.giganews.com: news set sender to pos...@giganews.com using -f
> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Macintosh/20081209)
> In-Reply-To: <005fd626$0$26599$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>
> X-DF-Seen-By: ms
> X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
> X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
> X-Postfilter: 1.3.39
> Xref: news3.newsguy.com talk.origins:1079707 alt.test:1045240
> X-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:09:48 UTC (s02-b74)
If anyone was looking for other options to replace AT&T, I was seeing a
special at Newsguy where you get 3 months for the price of one.
Dave
Vincent
says...
>
>In article <DUhXl.5744$fD....@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com>,
>khellS...@sbcglobal.net says...
>>
>> news-s...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>> > Please note that on or around July 15, 2009, AT&T will no longer be
>> > offering access to the Usenet netnews service. If you wish to continue
>> > reading Usenet newsgroups, access is available through third-party
>> > vendors.
>> >
>> > Posted only internally to AT&T Usenet Servers.
>> >
>>
>> WTF? AT&T just sent this notice. Is it for real? If my ISP no longer
>> will give usenet access, what would be a good alternative?
>> I know better than to try Google.
>> Klaus
>
>Giganews.
>
>allan
Newsguy.com is offering a 3-for-1 special to new members that may be worth a
look. If you get their 1 month / 60GB account for $10.95 they're adding 2 free
months off access. Last I checked Giganews was more expensive ($12.99 month) and
offered less capacity (35GB)
The accounts include NNTP & Web access to the newsgroups, newsgroup search
engine, free SSL, and unused download capacity rolls over until you use it. They
also have a free trial so you can check them out before buying anything.
-V
gigadiva
customers pay for it.
Steven L.
I've been on Earthlink since the earliest days of the World Wide Web.
And I see no reason to change.
Besides the Usenet newsgroups, I have access to Microsoft's and Corel's
own newsgroups as well, all through Thunderbird.
--
Steven L.
Email: sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
*Hemidactylus*
> On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 19:54:59 -0700, Kent Paul Dolan
>
>
>
>
>
good server access at that, that costs.
*Hemidactylus*
wrote:
> news-supp...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> > Please note that on or around July 15, 2009, AT&T will no longer be
> > offering access to the Usenet netnews service. If you wish to continue
> > reading Usenet newsgroups, access is available through third-party
> > vendors.
>
> > Posted only internally to AT&T Usenet Servers.
>
>
> If anyone else can see this, can anyone recommend a good "third-party
> vendor"?
>
back in. And my Baby Bell home phone service became ATT again. Gotta
love big corps.
*Hemidactylus*
me so I dropped them and reverted to the hellhole of gg. I might give
another real server a go sometime and get back to t-bird or try a
penguin-friendly reader like Pan.
Garamond Lethe
I've been using Pan for years and when everything work, it's fine. But
there's no way to edit killfiles without opening up a text editor and
there's no mechanism for keeping local copies of post you've made (which can
get really frustrating when posts are dropped).
I'm using Knode right now and it it's ok. I've dropped it before because
the spellchecking is evaluates words as they're typed instead of waiting
until the end of the word. This means there's a little red line that keeps
flickering on and off under what I'm typing, and that's just incredibly
annoying.
I suppose Thunderbird is next on the list unless I want to learn how to use
a non-gui solution.
*Hemidactylus*
> On Jun 8, 10:36 pm, Allan Matthews <allan_matth...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <DUhXl.5744$fD.4...@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com>,
> > khellSPAMn...@sbcglobal.net says...
>
> > > news-supp...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> > > > Please note that on or around July 15, 2009, AT&T will no longer be
> > > > offering access to the Usenet netnews service. If you wish to continue
> > > > reading Usenet newsgroups, access is available through third-party
> > > > vendors.
>
> > > > Posted only internally to AT&T Usenet Servers.
>
> > > WTF? AT&T just sent this notice. Is it for real? If my ISP no longer
> > > will give usenet access, what would be a good alternative?
> > > I know better than to try Google.
> > > Klaus
>
> > Giganews.
>
> I think I may go back to paying for the cheapie version of Giganews, a
> service I used to at times because comcast was not portable to
> different locations, You can get a kickback by referring customers if
>
> If you prefer not to release it to the world, you can email me -- my
> listed address is valid. Or you can simply forgo the extra $20!
>
> By the way, I did like Giganews which is why I might actually just pay
> for it, the same way I paid for my Agent news reader. And if you get
> a cut of the action, all the better.
>
limited to this group and watching the infamous astrological therapist
guy and his cadre of devoted haters overload a Jung newsgroup with
amusing and way off-topic back and forths. That's not really worth
paying for really. Then there's the ever devolving Rand-fanboy group
and long-dead memetics group.
The only people who get a return on investment on servers are the
folks who steal copyrighted content from binaries groups, but most of
them probably use torrents nowadays.
Do I want to shell out too much per month for Pagano, Nando, madcap
and spinny threads? Ray's paper might be worth it.
*Hemidactylus*
> >>> Please note that on or around July 15, 2009, AT&T will no longer be
> >>> offering access to the Usenet netnews service. If you wish to
> >>> continue reading Usenet newsgroups, access is available through
> >>> third-party vendors.
>
> >>> Posted only internally to AT&T Usenet Servers.
>
> >> WTF? AT&T just sent this notice. Is it for real? If my ISP no longer
> >> will give usenet access, what would be a good alternative?
> >> I know better than to try Google.
> >> Klaus
>
> > http://news.motzarella.org/
> > provides free access to text-only new groups except that there is
> > apparently some unexplained bad blood between them and dig. Dig has
> > the entire motzarella news server on the banned list and, in return,
> > Motzarella won't even try posting there. I use Motzarella to read a
> > dozen or so news groups including t.o. and for posting to all except
> > this one where I am forced into Google.
>
> > I, too, would appreciate hearing a a good, reliable, free server or,
> > better yet, have dig clear up whatever happened back in the paleozoic
> > to cause this problem.
>
> but NNTP based. I have found it be very reliable and very little downtime.
> When Comcast cut the newsgroups, I had to go out and find another one, andhttp://albasani.net/was one of the better free ones I tried.
>
The albasani page has a nice penguin image in the top left corner ;-)
*Hemidactylus*
> On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 19:54:59 -0700, Kent Paul Dolan
>
>
>
>
>
> <xanth...@well.com> wrote:
> >rnor...@umich.edu wrote:
> > >> news-supp...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>
> > >>> Please note that on or around July 15, 2009, AT&T will no longer be
> > >>> offering access to the Usenet netnews service. If you wish to continue
> > >>> reading Usenet newsgroups, access is available through third-party
> > >>> vendors.
>
> > >>> Posted only internally to AT&T Usenet Servers.
>
> > >> WTF? AT&T just sent this notice. Is it for real?
> > >> If my ISP no longer will give usenet access, what
> > >> would be a good alternative?
>
> >tell the old one why you're leaving.
>
>
> >voluminous Usenet presence for seven years using
> >_only_ Google Groups. It does have its nasty bits,
> >though, and is 1) poorly maintained, 2) frequently
> >down, 3) often misleading, and 4) non-trivial to learn.
>
>
> > > Comcast did that to me about a year ago. Motzarella at
>
> > > http://news.motzarella.org/
>
> > > provides free access to text-only new groups
> > > except that there is apparently some unexplained
> > > bad blood between them and dig. Dig has the
> > > entire motzarella news server on the banned list
> > > and, in return, Motzarella won't even try posting
> > > there. I use Motzarella to read a dozen or so
> > > news groups including t.o. and for posting to all
> > > except this one where I am forced into Google.
>
> > > I, too, would appreciate hearing a a good,
> > > reliable, free server or, better yet, have dig
> > > clear up whatever happened back in the paleozoic
> > > to cause this problem.
>
Susan S
<ecph...@hotmail.com>:
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/230577/june-15-2009/car-shout---gm---chrysler
Susan Silberstein
*Hemidactylus*
machines, where menu buttons don't do crap. This first time I tried
KDE I loaded it AFTER installing Fedora 10 as Gnome. It worked fine
them and I loved the look compared to Gnome. But when I've installed
KDE as Fedora 10 or Kubuntu 9.04, something seemed goofy. It's
probably the machine's fault or user error :-)
Google groups is getting so messed up this weekend that I'm tempted to
try a server/reader combo, but my usage of usenet is so limited that
I'm not really sure it's worth the hassle.
Glenn
"*Hemidactylus*" <ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:83b9e049-d347-4604...@y10g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
snip
Google groups is getting so messed up this weekend that I'm tempted to
try a server/reader combo, but my usage of usenet is so limited that
I'm not really sure it's worth the hassle.
I haven't seen google mess up lately. They do have an archiving or search
problem, but that doesn't seem to affect posting or reading groups.
Garamond Lethe
Yep. It's worked well for me in the more distant past.
> If so, I've had issues with KDE on my
> machines, where menu buttons don't do crap. This first time I tried
> KDE I loaded it AFTER installing Fedora 10 as Gnome. It worked fine
> them and I loved the look compared to Gnome. But when I've installed
> KDE as Fedora 10 or Kubuntu 9.04, something seemed goofy. It's
> probably the machine's fault or user error :-)
>
KDE was wonderful until the new version, and one day it may be wonderful
again. Ubuntu picked it up when the new version was barely usable and the
version in Jaunty has been fixed to the point where it's just really
annoying. Normally I would have enjoyed figuring out the new interface
metaphors, but at this point in my career the desktop is a tool and I want
it to work in such a manner that I don't have to think about it. I've
switched back to Gnome and run the odd KDE app under that (e.g. Konsole).
Paul J Gans
Yeah. KDE 4.x.x is really bad. I'm still using 3.5. But I'm
running SUSE which makes that possible. Tonight (coincidence!)
I looked into KUbuntu for a laptop to be used by novices and
saw that it was using KDE 4. Digusted, I've opted for Ubuntu and
Gnome, which I am not fond of, but hey...
I wish that distros would not go to basic new stuff until it was
at least as useful as what it replaced.
--
--- Paul J. Gans
Michael Siemon
Paul J Gans <ga...@panix.com> wrote:
...
> Yeah. KDE 4.x.x is really bad. I'm still using 3.5. But I'm
> running SUSE which makes that possible. Tonight (coincidence!)
> I looked into KUbuntu for a laptop to be used by novices and
> saw that it was using KDE 4. Digusted, I've opted for Ubuntu and
> Gnome, which I am not fond of, but hey...
>
> I wish that distros would not go to basic new stuff until it was
> at least as useful as what it replaced.
That sort of thing is why I gave up on Linux a decade ago... No
coherence and no trace of respect for non-geek user experience.
*Hemidactylus*
> On Jun 8, 8:28 pm, Klaus Hellnick <khellSPAMn...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > news-supp...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> > > Please note that on or around July 15, 2009, AT&T will no longer be
> > > offering access to the Usenet netnews service. If you wish to continue
> > > reading Usenet newsgroups, access is available through third-party
> > > vendors.
>
> > > Posted only internally to AT&T Usenet Servers.
>
> > WTF? AT&T just sent this notice. Is it for real? If my ISP no longer
> > will give usenet access, what would be a good alternative?
> > I know better than to try Google.
> > Klaus
>
> http://news.motzarella.org/
> provides free access to text-only new groups except that there is
> apparently some unexplained bad blood between them and dig. Dig has
> the entire motzarella news server on the banned list and, in return,
> Motzarella won't even try posting there. I use Motzarella to read a
> dozen or so news groups including t.o. and for posting to all except
> this one where I am forced into Google.
>
> I, too, would appreciate hearing a a good, reliable, free server or,
> better yet, have dig clear up whatever happened back in the paleozoic
> to cause this problem.
>
cheap readers. The server access is the big i$$ue. If WebTV/MSNTV
let's their customers access usenet (without the courtesy of quote
lines), why can't other providers still support pre-www access? Don't
they realize we've gotta have access to Ray's paper when it arrives
fresh off the presses? The bastards!!!
There is life beyond port 80 access to Myrz and Wilks bloggings.
Paul J Gans
Well, it is explicit now with the prime distributions. The business
model is to sell distros to businesses that have been heavily debugged
by users filing bug reports. SUSE just released "Enterprise Version 11"
while free version 11.0 has been out for almost a year and free version
11.1 out for about six months now.
But it is a symbiosis that mostly works fairly well. Most all of the
programming I need is available pre-compiled in open source. And it
is the cost of *that* stuff that drives me away from commericial
distros. OSX, for example, is essentially free compared to the total
cost of photoshop, word, etc.
Still, they get overenthusiastic sometimes.
*Hemidactylus*
> In article <h1cg0n$og...@reader1.panix.com>,
managed to persevere. But you've gotta use the right distro. Paul says
he's using SUSE which works for him, but a live session on that distro
didn't pan out for me. The only distros I've had success with are
Fedora and Ubuntu. If you have anything more than a netbook, I'd
recommend you try Fedora 10 or 11 (or Ubuntu 9.04) as a live session,
where you boot to CD and it stays mostly in RAM and maybe some in your
swap/page file (correct?) and when you're done it leaves nothing
significant in your PC, except maybe some temps in your swap file, if
it goes beyond RAM*. You have to opt-in to install Linux this way.
*- I'm not sure if it goes beyond RAM at all.
F'in Microsoft can't let you tst-drive Windows on your machine like
this. You gotta install to use it.
In CD booted live session you can see if your hardware works and if
you like it. If you still have your install CD's for your Windows or
other OS, you might be able to do a dual boot. If you have enough of a
CPU and a good virtualizer program, you can install Linux inside
Windows and tinker with it that way.
But Linux isn't for the faint of heart. It forces you to learn more
about computers than Windows does, which isn't always a bad thing,
depending on what you want to do.
*Hemidactylus*
netbook remix. Awesome, totally awesome, for netbooks. On my little
netbook it's perfect. Microsoft better get their act together in the
netbook market. Most are running XP (like the one I'm on right now),
but Linux may be making headway.
Linux can act a little goofy on netbooks in my experience as the 1024
X 600 sometimes leaves a bit of a menu lopped off at the bottom, but
the Ubuntu NBR kicks ass. I'd not try installing Fedora 11 though on a
netbook after my experiences with Fedora 10, especially KDE. I figured
out a way from reading a collection of online tutorials, to format a
USB pen in gparted and use a command line to tell it to load the
Fedora ISO onto the pen for a USB booted install, but I've
subsequently forgotten the details. USB installs are easy in Ubuntu. I
think you still have to burn it on CD first and make the USB pen on a
CD enabled machine while in a live session. Or if you've got mad
skills in the command line you can try that route.
Interestingly enough Windows 7 RC works great on a netbook, so
Microsoft better not jump the shark when they officiallly release Win7
in October/November. They probably *want* to go with a limited route
on netbooks because of the cost factor in the netbook market. Given my
experience on Win7 I wouldn't hesitate to buy a regular version if the
price is reasonable, but I wonder what it will be like pre-installed
with all the factory bloat and if Microsoft limits the netbook version
(like the initial rumor about only 3 apps at a time). I have a netbook
with a Ubuntu/Win7 dual-boot that runs fine, aside from a little
wireless card issue on the Linux side that was solved by overriding it
with a USB card, probably not the most elegant solution, but all the
command line workarounds are either esoteric for the true penguin guru
or tedious. My solution worked, not sure how, but it did.
Has Apple made any headway in the netbook market? I'm sure most people
wouldn't hesitate to spend 1200 bucks on a mini-Mac, instead of
200-500 on a mini-PC that they could run Linux AND Windows 7 on as
dual boot. It works as long as you've got the gigabytes on the
traditional spinning hard drive, little solid states (except the
higher end 64 GB Dells maybe) can't handle Win 7 and you probably
need 1 gig of RAM.
I burned the Win7 ISO from Microsoft, gparted my hard drive in an
Ubuntu live session to be half ext2 and half NTFS, installed Win7
*first* on the NTFS side, via a USB CD/DVD drive, and in Win7 went
into its partitioner (what's its name) and unallocated the ext2 on the
other side to make it free space, then restarted and booted to the
Ubuntu NBR USB I already made and installed that. Ubuntu recognizes
Win7 in its grub bootloader and you can go either way after BIOS.
Ubuntu is free and so is the Win7 release candidate. Sure I'll have to
pay for Win 7 later, but it's great for now.
I also have a larger laptop with a Fedora 11 (Gnome)/Win7 dual
boot.Fedora is awesome on the larger laptops and I like it better than
Ubuntu overall, just not on my netbooks. I tried virtualizing Win7
within Fedora 10 using KVM, when I had a decent working KDE
envrinoment, and it worked crappy. Either KVM sucks or my processor
was taking nap breaks.
Paul J Gans
>On Jun 18, 12:32 am, Paul J Gans <g...@panix.com> wrote:
[snip]
>> Yeah. KDE 4.x.x is really bad. I'm still using 3.5. But I'm
>> running SUSE which makes that possible. Tonight (coincidence!)
>> I looked into KUbuntu for a laptop to be used by novices and
>> saw that it was using KDE 4. Digusted, I've opted for Ubuntu and
>> Gnome, which I am not fond of, but hey...
>>
>> I wish that distros would not go to basic new stuff until it was
>> at least as useful as what it replaced.
>>
>Dude, if you haven't already. you gotta check out Ubuntu 9.04 as
>netbook remix. Awesome, totally awesome, for netbooks. On my little
>netbook it's perfect. Microsoft better get their act together in the
>netbook market. Most are running XP (like the one I'm on right now),
>but Linux may be making headway.
I have an ancient netbook, one of the original Asus 701's. Sadly
NOBODY supports that out of the box, including Jaunty.
Yeah. Sadly my netbook is flash drive only.
>I also have a larger laptop with a Fedora 11 (Gnome)/Win7 dual
>boot.Fedora is awesome on the larger laptops and I like it better than
>Ubuntu overall, just not on my netbooks. I tried virtualizing Win7
>within Fedora 10 using KVM, when I had a decent working KDE
>envrinoment, and it worked crappy. Either KVM sucks or my processor
>was taking nap breaks.
Yeah.
I'm an openSUSE fan. Been using it on various machines since forever.
But KDE 4.x just doesn't really do it. It is a step backward.
Right now I've been trying to update two (one newish, one ancient)
laptops (not netbooks). OpenSUSE 11.1 (the current edition) just
won't work right on either. I have wireless problems, sound problems,
screen problems, and gosh knows what else if I explored further.
Right now I've installed Ubuntu on the newish machine and with minor
tweaking it works fine. I've used Gnome before and I can cope.
As of this moment I'm installing Ubuntu on the ancient machine and
everthing I've looked at so far has been just fine.
For heavy work on my desktops I do prefer openSUSE and am willing
to do a lot to make things work. I've not upgraded them yet because
I need them to function. Usually I do the laptops first since those
are convenience machines.
It is clear from the troubles that all this stuff was designed.
Had it evolved, the test of survival would have made all remaining
distributions work within their niches. ;-)
*Hemidactylus*
Have you messed with any of the tiny distros like DSL or Puppy? I couldn't
get my wireless to work with those, but like the idea of something small
enough to be pretty much RM resident. Probably good for troubleshooting,
like Knoppix, which I couldn't get wireless to work on either.
>
>>I also have a larger laptop with a Fedora 11 (Gnome)/Win7 dual
>>boot.Fedora is awesome on the larger laptops and I like it better than
>>Ubuntu overall, just not on my netbooks. I tried virtualizing Win7
>>within Fedora 10 using KVM, when I had a decent working KDE
>>envrinoment, and it worked crappy. Either KVM sucks or my processor
>>was taking nap breaks.
>
> Yeah.
>
> I'm an openSUSE fan. Been using it on various machines since forever.
> But KDE 4.x just doesn't really do it. It is a step backward.
>
> Right now I've been trying to update two (one newish, one ancient)
> laptops (not netbooks). OpenSUSE 11.1 (the current edition) just
> won't work right on either. I have wireless problems, sound problems,
> screen problems, and gosh knows what else if I explored further.
>
I liked the look of OpenSUSE, but my live session revealed some
compatibility issues. I tried it from a DVD collection of distros that came
with a Linux book.
>
> Right now I've installed Ubuntu on the newish machine and with minor
> tweaking it works fine. I've used Gnome before and I can cope.
>
> As of this moment I'm installing Ubuntu on the ancient machine and
> everthing I've looked at so far has been just fine.
>
> For heavy work on my desktops I do prefer openSUSE and am willing
> to do a lot to make things work. I've not upgraded them yet because
> I need them to function. Usually I do the laptops first since those
> are convenience machines.
>
> It is clear from the troubles that all this stuff was designed.
> Had it evolved, the test of survival would have made all remaining
> distributions work within their niches. ;-)
>
I'm totally sold on Fedora. The only issue I have with Fedora 11 is that the
beta of Firefox 3.5 comes as default, and it works but has some image
loading issues for me like the google groups icon being a black space, a
*minor* annoyance. Hopefully the actual release of Firefox comes in
seamlessly as an update and resolves that. I wish they gave me the easy
option of reverting to current Firefox, but I'll survive.
I found, and this may be superstition on my part, that KDE works better when
you start with Gnome and bring KDE via the package manager. Then you have
the option upon login whether you want to go into Gnome or KDE. The
functionality issues weren't there, like not being able to get packages
installed in the KDE manager when installed fresh. The only goofy thing is
having all your programs from both sides listed on your menus in KDE.
This experience from Gnome to KDE gave me a very favorable impression that
later bit me on the arse when I tried installing KDE Fedora or Kubuntu
directly, without the Gnome platform pre-installed. I could be
superstitious, going on just one instance of success for me. I guess my
favorite thing about KDE would be the desktop widget, like a CPU/RAM meter
and core temperature monitor.
Garamond did mention the red squigglies in KNode, I see those now.
--
*Hemidactylus*
-it ends here-
Garamond Lethe
> Paul J Gans wrote:
>
>> *Hemidactylus* <ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>On Jun 18, 12:32 am, Paul J Gans <g...@panix.com> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>>> Yeah. KDE 4.x.x is really bad. I'm still using 3.5. But I'm
>>>> running SUSE which makes that possible. Tonight (coincidence!)
>>>> I looked into KUbuntu for a laptop to be used by novices and
>>>> saw that it was using KDE 4. Digusted, I've opted for Ubuntu and
>>>> Gnome, which I am not fond of, but hey...
>>>>
>>>> I wish that distros would not go to basic new stuff until it was
>>>> at least as useful as what it replaced.
>>>>
>>>Dude, if you haven't already. you gotta check out Ubuntu 9.04 as
>>>netbook remix. Awesome, totally awesome, for netbooks. On my little
>>>netbook it's perfect. Microsoft better get their act together in the
>>>netbook market. Most are running XP (like the one I'm on right now),
>>>but Linux may be making headway.
>>
>> I have an ancient netbook, one of the original Asus 701's. Sadly
>> NOBODY supports that out of the box, including Jaunty.
Aren't they great? I put an 8GB SD card in mine, installed ubuntu's netbook
remix on that and have been very pleased with the results.
<snip>
> Garamond did mention the red squigglies in KNode, I see those now.
>
On my EEE 701 I'm now playing with slrn. I haven't been pushing it too hard
yet, and I'm still putting up with Knode's stupid spellchecking on the
workstation, but so far I really like what I see.
*Hemidactylus*
> *Hemidactylus* wrote:
>
>> Paul J Gans wrote:
>>
>>> *Hemidactylus* <ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>On Jun 18, 12:32 am, Paul J Gans <g...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>>> Yeah. KDE 4.x.x is really bad. I'm still using 3.5. But I'm
>>>>> running SUSE which makes that possible. Tonight (coincidence!)
>>>>> I looked into KUbuntu for a laptop to be used by novices and
>>>>> saw that it was using KDE 4. Digusted, I've opted for Ubuntu and
>>>>> Gnome, which I am not fond of, but hey...
>>>>>
>>>>> I wish that distros would not go to basic new stuff until it was
>>>>> at least as useful as what it replaced.
>>>>>
>>>>Dude, if you haven't already. you gotta check out Ubuntu 9.04 as
>>>>netbook remix. Awesome, totally awesome, for netbooks. On my little
>>>>netbook it's perfect. Microsoft better get their act together in the
>>>>netbook market. Most are running XP (like the one I'm on right now),
>>>>but Linux may be making headway.
>>>
>>> I have an ancient netbook, one of the original Asus 701's. Sadly
>>> NOBODY supports that out of the box, including Jaunty.
>
> Aren't they great? I put an 8GB SD card in mine, installed ubuntu's
> netbook remix on that and have been very pleased with the results.
>
Before I made the gutsy decision to get a cheap Acer Aspire One amd attempt
Ubuntu Jaunty NBR I was *really* tempted to order a Dell netbook with Ubuntu
(Heron LTS?) installed. You can bump the solid state up to 64 GB if you want
to pay. At least Dell gives you the option of Ubuntu.
>
> <snip>
>
>> Garamond did mention the red squigglies in KNode, I see those now.
>>
>
> On my EEE 701 I'm now playing with slrn. I haven't been pushing it too
> hard yet, and I'm still putting up with Knode's stupid spellchecking on
> the workstation, but so far I really like what I see.
>
I just checked my package manager and see I have slrn available. Is it worth
trying on a larger than netbook platform or is KNode better?
Garamond Lethe
The honest answer is, of course, "it depends". That having
been said, I ran KNode and slrn side by side on my workstation
for a few days. Now I'm running slrn exclusively. There will
be a much larger initial investment in learning how to set
up the configuration file and figure out which keys do what.
So far, though, nothing is slrn has caused me to erupt with
"That's stupid!", which was not the case for pan or knode.
So yes, slrn is good enough to merit a look, and once you
get it set up it's probably best if you use it along with
knode (and even google).
Paul J Gans
>*Hemidactylus* wrote:
>> Paul J Gans wrote:
>>
>>> *Hemidactylus* <ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>On Jun 18, 12:32 am, Paul J Gans <g...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>>> Yeah. KDE 4.x.x is really bad. I'm still using 3.5. But I'm
>>>>> running SUSE which makes that possible. Tonight (coincidence!)
>>>>> I looked into KUbuntu for a laptop to be used by novices and
>>>>> saw that it was using KDE 4. Digusted, I've opted for Ubuntu and
>>>>> Gnome, which I am not fond of, but hey...
>>>>>
>>>>> I wish that distros would not go to basic new stuff until it was
>>>>> at least as useful as what it replaced.
>>>>>
>>>>Dude, if you haven't already. you gotta check out Ubuntu 9.04 as
>>>>netbook remix. Awesome, totally awesome, for netbooks. On my little
>>>>netbook it's perfect. Microsoft better get their act together in the
>>>>netbook market. Most are running XP (like the one I'm on right now),
>>>>but Linux may be making headway.
>>>
>>> I have an ancient netbook, one of the original Asus 701's. Sadly
>>> NOBODY supports that out of the box, including Jaunty.
>Aren't they great? I put an 8GB SD card in mine, installed ubuntu's netbook
>remix on that and have been very pleased with the results.
I missed Garamond's post (right above this). Does the wireless
work with the netbook remix? I'd love it if it did.
><snip>
>> Garamond did mention the red squigglies in KNode, I see those now.
>>
>On my EEE 701 I'm now playing with slrn. I haven't been pushing it too hard
>yet, and I'm still putting up with Knode's stupid spellchecking on the
>workstation, but so far I really like what I see.
I cheat. My server in my office is always on and well firewalled.
So wherever I am I log into it (ssh) and read my mail and newsgroups
on it. Thus whatever bad stuff is there doesn't affect me locally,
though I do sometimes have to clean the junk off the server.
I use my netbook for two things. I put pdf slides on it and show them
in class using the 1024x768 video output on the jack in the back. Or
I take the netbook with me on trips and use it to read newgroups
and e-mail. I can't type on it very well, but it serves in an
emergency.
Paul J Gans
*I* don't know. I'm an uregenerate tin user. That's probably the
most ancient newsreader still in existance.
Garamond Lethe
Yes, no problems at all.
>
>><snip>
>
>>> Garamond did mention the red squigglies in KNode, I see those now.
>>>
>
>>On my EEE 701 I'm now playing with slrn. I haven't been pushing it too hard
>>yet, and I'm still putting up with Knode's stupid spellchecking on the
>>workstation, but so far I really like what I see.
>
> I cheat. My server in my office is always on and well firewalled.
> So wherever I am I log into it (ssh) and read my mail and newsgroups
> on it. Thus whatever bad stuff is there doesn't affect me locally,
> though I do sometimes have to clean the junk off the server.
>
> I use my netbook for two things. I put pdf slides on it and show them
> in class using the 1024x768 video output on the jack in the back. Or
> I take the netbook with me on trips and use it to read newgroups
> and e-mail. I can't type on it very well, but it serves in an
> emergency.
>
I'll never be able to manage 60wpm on mine, but that hasn't stopped me from
putting in 10-hour coding session on it.
*Hemidactylus*
I had a wireless glitch where it worked from the box, but I lost wireless
after using it on a public network with authentication and came home to
find my card dead and unrevivable. I bought a USB card from WalMart and
it not only found my network but revived my native card. I don't know if
this glitch is specific to the native card in my netbook or more general.
>
>>><snip>
>>
>>>> Garamond did mention the red squigglies in KNode, I see those now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>On my EEE 701 I'm now playing with slrn. I haven't been pushing it too
>>>hard yet, and I'm still putting up with Knode's stupid spellchecking on
>>>the workstation, but so far I really like what I see.
>>
>> I cheat. My server in my office is always on and well firewalled. So
>> wherever I am I log into it (ssh) and read my mail and newsgroups on
>> it. Thus whatever bad stuff is there doesn't affect me locally, though
>> I do sometimes have to clean the junk off the server.
>>
>> I use my netbook for two things. I put pdf slides on it and show them
>> in class using the 1024x768 video output on the jack in the back. Or I
>> take the netbook with me on trips and use it to read newgroups and
>> e-mail. I can't type on it very well, but it serves in an emergency.
>>
>>
> I'll never be able to manage 60wpm on mine, but that hasn't stopped me
> from putting in 10-hour coding session on it.
>
I'm using Pan on the Ubuntu remix. I just tried sending and failed
because the USB and native card started working at the same time and must
have conflicted. I'm going native now.
I've got Windows 7 RC on the other partition and it works surprisingly
well on a netbook, but I've got a 100+ GB drive. Little solid states
might present a problem.
Paul J Gans
Thanks. I'm going to look into it.
Paul J Gans
Yeah. They are neat for use in hostile environments where the
only thing you have to protect is the screen, but when it comes
to "disk" space....
pinaylover
> news-supp...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> > Please note that on or around July 15, 2009, AT&T will no longer be
> > offering access to the Usenet netnews service. If you wish to continue
> > reading Usenet newsgroups, access is available through third-party
> > vendors.
>
> > Posted only internally to AT&T Usenet Servers.
>
> WTF? AT&T just sent this notice. Is it for real? If my ISP no longer
> will give usenet access, what would be a good alternative?
> I know better than to try Google.
> Klaus
I dropped everything that was ATT.
First I dropped there long distance on my land line. When I was ask
why, I told them "because ATT dropped usenet from their service". They
tried telling me that that was a different division, that they didn't
have anything to do with internet service. I told them that ATT was
ATT. The money goes into the same pot and hung up.
Next I called ATT Wireless, which I have had for over 5 years and did
the same thing. When they asked why I told them the same story.
Then I did the same with my ATT internet service to my home. They got
the same story.
Last but not least, I have a T1 line going to my business, which ATT
is the provider, when I get it changed over to someone else I am going
to do the same with that.
I am just a small fry, but if everyone else did the same, they may see
the picture.