Arkansas: Panel to consider evolution critique
Jason Spaceman
--------------------------------------------------------------------
BY JOHN KRUPA
Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007
ROGERS — The School Board president wants a district committee to
review a set of supplemental materials that attack evolutionary
theory.
President Joye Kelley said after Tuesday’s board meeting that the
committee then would recommend whether to incorporate the materials
into the district’s secondary science curriculum.
The statement came after the School Board approved 21 science
textbooks that a member of the textbook selection committee painted as
slanted toward evolutionary theory.
Don Eckard, a Rogers dentist who served as the lone community
representative on the selection committee, said last month and again
Tuesday night that the science books do not present a balanced view of
evolution.
Eckard said students should be exposed to the scientific evidence that
both supports and refutes evolution. Eckard, a Christian, said he
isn’t for teaching creationism or intelligent design in schools. He
presented the supplemental materials Tuesday and asked the board to
vote on them in May.
The supplemental materials consist of a 36-page handout and a
corresponding DVD.
The DVD and most of the printed materials are produced by the
Seattle-based Discovery Institute Center for Science and Culture. Mark
Moore, a former Pea Ridge science teacher who spoke against the
science textbooks with Eckard last month, wrote the additional
material.
The institute’s materials are titled “Icons of Evolution: The Growing
Scientific Controversy Over Darwin,” and present infor- mation that
challenges evolutionary theory.
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Read it at http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/187743/
J. Spaceman
Ron O
wrote:
> From the article:
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> BY JOHN KRUPA
>
> Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007
>
> review a set of supplemental materials that attack evolutionary
> theory.
>
> President Joye Kelley said after Tuesday's board meeting that the
> committee then would recommend whether to incorporate the materials
> into the district's secondary science curriculum.
>
> The statement came after the School Board approved 21 science
> textbooks that a member of the textbook selection committee painted as
> slanted toward evolutionary theory.
>
> Don Eckard, a Rogers dentist who served as the lone community
> representative on the selection committee, said last month and again
> Tuesday night that the science books do not present a balanced view of
> evolution.
>
> Eckard said students should be exposed to the scientific evidence that
> both supports and refutes evolution. Eckard, a Christian, said he
> isn't for teaching creationism or intelligent design in schools. He
> presented the supplemental materials Tuesday and asked the board to
> vote on them in May.
>
> The supplemental materials consist of a 36-page handout and a
> corresponding DVD.
>
> The DVD and most of the printed materials are produced by the
> Seattle-based Discovery Institute Center for Science and Culture. Mark
> Moore, a former Pea Ridge science teacher who spoke against the
> science textbooks with Eckard last month, wrote the additional
> material.
Let them go and do what they want to do. The sooner the new scam goes
to court and gets nailed for the dishonest scam that it is, the
better. My guess is that the Discovery Institute is secretly trying
to get the rubes to drop the issue. The Discovery Institute are the
guys that were caught lying about intelligent design for over a
decade. It is a no brainer that they will have no credibility with
their replacement scam. Anyone just has to demonstrate that they came
up with the replacement scam while they were still lying about the
intelligent design scam, and that even though they were claiming to be
able to teach something about intelligent design, the new scam doesn't
even mention that ID ever existed. It is just your classic bait and
switch scam. Promise one thing and deliver something else that is
pretty worthless.
>
> The institute's materials are titled "Icons of Evolution: The Growing
> Scientific Controversy Over Darwin," and present infor- mation that
> challenges evolutionary theory.
Oh, Oh. They should review the history of the Ohio fiasco where the
Ohio rubes took the bait and switch, but found out that the Discovery
Institute didn't have a valid lesson plan for the new scam. They
still do not have a valid lesson plan for the new scam. All they have
is dishonest scam material. The Ohio rubes found out how dishonest it
was and had to drop all mention of "Icons" out of their original
attempt at producing something worth teaching.
The saddest thing is that rubes are still willing to go to the
dishonest scam artists after they know that they have been lied to by
the scam artists for years. The Rogers board should contact the Ohio
rubes and find out what they know before they make the same mistakes.
I wonder why they never do something sensible like that?
It should be a no brainer for any rube that wants to believe the
intelligent design scam artists. Why did the Discovery Institute
never produce an intelligent design public school lesson plan in all
the years that they advocated teaching it? They have had the "teach
the controversy" replacement scam kicking around since at least 1999,
but again, they have never put up a teach the controversy public
school lesson plan for evaluation. Never. When the guy running the
scams never even bother to demonstrate that they can actually teach
the scams, why would any rube believe them today with that lame track
record? We are talking about scam artists that were forced to admit
that the reason that they never produced an intelligent design lesson
plan was due to the fact that they never had anything worth teaching.
What is going to be their lame excuse for not having a "teach the
controversy" lesson plan available for evaluation?
Ron Okimoto
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Read it athttp://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/187743/
>
> J. Spaceman
CreateThis
<notr...@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
>... the School Board approved 21 science
>textbooks that a member of the textbook selection committee painted as
>slanted toward evolutionary theory.
Yeah, I bet they're "slanted" toward roundearth theory too.
CT
Frank J
wrote:
> From the article:
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> BY JOHN KRUPA
>
> Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007
>
> review a set of supplemental materials that attack evolutionary
> theory.
>
> President Joye Kelley said after Tuesday's board meeting that the
> committee then would recommend whether to incorporate the materials
> into the district's secondary science curriculum.
>
> The statement came after the School Board approved 21 science
> textbooks that a member of the textbook selection committee painted as
> slanted toward evolutionary theory.
>
> Don Eckard, a Rogers dentist who served as the lone community
> representative on the selection committee, said last month and again
> Tuesday night that the science books do not present a balanced view of
> evolution.
>
> Eckard said students should be exposed to the scientific evidence that
> both supports and refutes evolution. Eckard, a Christian, said he
> isn't for teaching creationism or intelligent design in schools. He
> presented the supplemental materials Tuesday and asked the board to
> vote on them in May.
Hmm, not ID or creationism, but "supplemental materials." Whaddya
think, Margulis? Kauffman?, or the really radical stuff from Schwabe,
Senapathy or Goldschmidt? I mean it doesn't have to *work* to be
"supplemental."
>
> The supplemental materials consist of a 36-page handout and a
> corresponding DVD.
>
> The DVD and most of the printed materials are produced by the
> Seattle-based Discovery Institute Center for Science and Culture. Mark
> Moore, a former Pea Ridge science teacher who spoke against the
> science textbooks with Eckard last month, wrote the additional
> material.
>
> The institute's materials are titled "Icons of Evolution: The Growing
> Scientific Controversy Over Darwin," and present infor- mation that
> challenges evolutionary theory.
This is a joke, right?
If that was "breathtaking inanity" before Dover, I don't know what one
would call it now.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Read it athttp://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/187743/
>
> J. Spaceman
Frank J
Would anyone be crazy enough to do that after Dover? I realize that,
technically, Dover was about the old scam, ID, but Judge Jones made it
clear that the new scam had the same problems, not the least being the
"breathtaking inanity", as the old scam had.
> My guess is that the Discovery Institute is secretly trying
> to get the rubes to drop the issue.
I can hear the frantic call "Never, ever, mention "Icons" by name!!!"
Please, PLEASE call us first, we'll give you "supplemental materials",
and this time we won't be so lazy to use 'find and replace'."
Then again, this could just be a sales pitch for "Icons," and not a
serious attempt to get it in class. Given how the anti-science board
members were replaced elsewhere, it certainly is a risky stunt, but
you never know. Maybe they checked the polls first.
>
>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------限--
>
> > Read it athttp://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/187743/
>
> > J. Spaceman- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Lexington Victoria-Rice
I wonder why Moore is a "former" science teacher.
>
> The institute’s materials are titled “Icons of Evolution: The Growing
> Scientific Controversy Over Darwin,” and present infor- mation that
> challenges evolutionary theory.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Read it at http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/187743/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> J. Spaceman
>
--
"Fundamentalists can kiss my left behind."
Some bumper sticker or t-shirt.
'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank
I quite agree. The creationuts have lost every single Federal Court
case they have ever been involved with. Every single one.
I look forward to seeing them add a few more to that list.
================================================
Lenny Flank
"There are no loose threads in the web of life"
Author:
"Deception by Design: The Intelligent Design Movement in America"
http://www.redandblackpublishers.com/deceptionbydesign.html
Creation "Science" Debunked:
http://www.geocities.com/lflank
Ron O
It is pretty hard to believe that anyone would be attempting this kind
of junk at this time, but look at Ohio. You just didn't have
creationist board members that couldn't face reality, you had that
bogus organization that called itself a group of academics (SEAO) that
had teaching ID as a priority before the Discovery Institute dog and
pony show, and then just like the creationist board members rolled
over and accepted the dishonest bait and switch scam from the same
guys that had just lied to their faces about ID being science. Both
Wells and Meyer first claimed that ID was science. Even after Dover
they were still claiming that they had a "theory" of intelligent
design.
I can't believe that the guys trying to influence the board don't know
that they have been lied to about ID and that the same dishonest perps
are running the replacement scam. A scam that doesn't even mention
that ID ever existed. Sure Ohio proves that such people exist, but
why?
All they have to understand is that there is still no lesson plan from
the dishonest perps that they are getting the teach the controversy
scam from. What do these guys think that there is to teach when even
the guys selling the scam are unwilling to put anything forward?
The bottom line is get the lesson plan. No evidence that there is
anything worth teaching, no reason to claim to be able to teach it.
Don't just rely on their dishonest propaganda junk. Who would do that
after they know that these guys are known liars? Get the perps to
demonstrate that they have something to teach.
>
> > My guess is that the Discovery Institute is secretly trying
> > to get the rubes to drop the issue.
>
> I can hear the frantic call "Never, ever, mention "Icons" by name!!!"
> Please, PLEASE call us first, we'll give you "supplemental materials",
> and this time we won't be so lazy to use 'find and replace'."
Once the Discovery Institute gets wind of this, there is no doubt in
my mind that they will have someone contact these rubes and try to
drop some hints about why using their DVD would be political suicide.
It is such a no brainer after what happened in Ohio where the state
board tried to use the junk directly from the scam artists and found
out that it was bogus, and had to drop all mention of Icons from the
lesson plan. The problem is that even finding this out didn't stop
the scam. The rubes just deleted the offending material and pretended
that they hadn't been scammed by it. That is just so sad that you
have to wonder just what they thought that they were doing.
The last thing that the Discovery Institute wants is for the teach the
controversy/critical analysis ID replacement scam to go to court under
these conditions. To have any chance at all there has to be no
mention of the Discovery Institute or their bogus material, especially
material produced before they had to admit that they had been lying
about ID all these years. The rubes have to pretend that they never
heard of intelligent design and that they didn't get the replacement
scam from the same dishonest perps that ran that scam. The DVD blows
the whole replacement scam. Why do the rubes think that intelligent
design isn't even mentioned in the replacement scam? Connecting their
actions to the dishonest scam artists at the Discovery Institute is
just stupid. Judge Jones makes that clear in the Dover decision.
The board is probably just a bunch of ignorant rubes that don't know
what the guys that they trust for information are talking about.
Ignorances isn't a bad thing, but being taken as a rube is. Once they
start getting feed back from the dishonest perps at the Discovery
Institute some of the board will likely have second thoughts. Most of
these people just want to do the right thing.
Just look at the Grantburg Wisconsin example. You had a board that
wanted to teach ID at the same time that Dover was beginning to hit
the fan. The Discovery Institute was able to get one of their lawyers
to the board and get them to drop the attempt. Unlike the dishonest
Ohio rubes, enough of the board realized that they had almost been had
and didn't take the replacement scam. The issue was simply dropped.
I believe that most people in that situation would make the right
decision. When they found out that they had been lied to about ID
they didn't take the replacement scam from the same guys that they had
just found out had lied to them. Most honest people would do just
what the Grantburg board did.
If the Rogers board isn't as honest, you are going to have another
Dover. The worst thing that could happen to the Discovery Institute
is if they are unable to stop these guys just like they were unable to
stop the Dover board from going through with the ID scam. What can
they do, refuse to let the Rogers board use their DVD as instructional
material?
Ron Okimoto
Ray Martinez
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Dear Casual Reader:
Ron O. is a Christian even though like all atheists he vehemently
argues against Intelligent Design (= the observation that the Father
of his Savior produced reality). Despite these facts do not think that
Ron is an Atheist, he has assued everyone that he is a Christian.
Ray Martinez, Christian
Ray Martinez
snex
whether or not the christian god exists, intelligent design isnt
science and isnt convincing. perhaps ron o has an even better reason
to believe in the christian god that he can share with us all.
Ray Martinez
How much does your atheism have to do with your opinion?
Ray
xe...@comcast.net
none at all. i evaluate individual claims based on their own merits.
the claims of intelligent design advocates are either outright false,
or do not support the conclusions they claim they do.
>
> Ray
Dan Luke
"Ray Martinez" wrote:
> How much does your atheism have to do with your opinion?
How much does your mental illness have to do with yours?
--
Dan
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
- Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Free Lunch
Ray Martinez <pyram...@yahoo.com> wrote in
<1177196246.1...@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>:...
I don't believe for a minute that you are a Christian. Your behavior and
consistent lies persuades me otherwise. Ron's integrity and honesty, on
the other hand, can be seen.
--
"Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel
to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy
Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should
take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in
which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh
it to scorn." -- Augustine, The Literal Meaning of Genesis
Ray Martinez
> > > whether or not the christian god exists, intelligent design isnt
> > > science and isnt convincing. perhaps ron o has an even better reason
> > > to believe in the christian god that he can share with us all.
>
> > How much does your atheism have to do with your opinion?
>
> none at all. i evaluate individual claims based on their own merits.
> the claims of intelligent design advocates are either outright false,
> or do not support the conclusions they claim they do.
>
Are you saying that your atheism has nothing to do with your rejection
of Intelligent Design?
By the way: I just obtained control of a bridge in Brooklyn, looks
like a cash cow - email me if you want in.
Ray
Ray Martinez
When did the identification of atheism become a sign of mental illness
Dr. Luke?
Ray
snex
> > > > whether or not the christian god exists, intelligent design isnt
> > > > science and isnt convincing. perhaps ron o has an even better reason
> > > > to believe in the christian god that he can share with us all.
>
> > > How much does your atheism have to do with your opinion?
>
> > none at all. i evaluate individual claims based on their own merits.
> > the claims of intelligent design advocates are either outright false,
> > or do not support the conclusions they claim they do.
>
> Are you saying that your atheism has nothing to do with your rejection
> of Intelligent Design?
why would it? people of all religions reject intelligent design
because its arguments are just bad. honest people reject bad arguments
even if the conclusions of those arguments are agreeable to them.
i agree with evolution, but i also reject bad arguments that were used
to support it, like recaptulation, piltdown man, etc.
>
> By the way: I just obtained control of a bridge in Brooklyn, looks
> like a cash cow - email me if you want in.
i realize you are in the habit of buying bridges in brooklyn from con-
artists that pretend to be pious, but why would you think id fall for
it just because you did?
>
> Ray
snex
claims to believe in invisible beings and that these beings talk to
you is often a sign of mental illness.
>
> Ray
Gerry Murphy
"Ray Martinez" <pyram...@yahoo.com> lied, as is his wont, when he wrote in
message news:1177196611.7...@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Dear Casual Reader,
Ray M. is a serial liar, ineducable ignoramus and hate-filled venom
monger
who labels anyone who disagrees with him ( 99% of the planet's population )
an atheist. He ineptly argues against the the theory of evolution despite
no
trace of any scientific training and a manifestly inadquate education
overall.
He 'promised' that he was going to finish a paper that would blow evolution
out of the water before posting here again. That was merely one of his
longer
running lies.
By their fruits ye shall know them.
Dan Luke
"Ray Martinez" wrote:
>> > How much does your atheism have to do with your opinion?
>>
>> How much does your mental illness have to do with yours?
>>
>> --
>> Dan
>>
>> "How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
>> - Chief Inspector Dreyfus
>
> When did the identification of atheism become a sign of mental illness
> Dr. Luke?
When it is the result of delusional thinking, eel boy.
AC
How much does your racism and dishonesty have to do with yours?
--
Aaron Clausen
mightym...@gmail.com
Mark VandeWettering
[ snippage ]
> Dear Casual Reader:
>
> Ron O. is a Christian even though like all atheists he vehemently
> argues against Intelligent Design (= the observation that the Father
> of his Savior produced reality). Despite these facts do not think that
> Ron is an Atheist, he has assued everyone that he is a Christian.
Intelligent design has nothing to do with Christianity (wink wink). I
mean after all, they specifically say that they aren't able (or is it
that they aren't trying, I'm never to sure) to identify the Creator
(nudge, nudge, you know the one I mean).
Mark
> Ray Martinez, Christian
Mark VandeWettering
>> > > science and isnt convincing. perhaps ron o has an even better reason
>> > > to believe in the christian god that he can share with us all.
>>
>> > How much does your atheism have to do with your opinion?
>>
>> none at all. i evaluate individual claims based on their own merits.
>> the claims of intelligent design advocates are either outright false,
>> or do not support the conclusions they claim they do.
>>
>
> Are you saying that your atheism has nothing to do with your rejection
> of Intelligent Design?
Many Christians reject Intelligent Design on the basis that it isn't
science. Many other Christians reject it on the basis that it is poor
theology.
> By the way: I just obtained control of a bridge in Brooklyn, looks
> like a cash cow - email me if you want in.
I thought Christians weren't supposed to steal.
Mark
>
> Ray
Bob Casanova
talk.origins, posted by Ray Martinez <pyram...@yahoo.com>:
Dear Casual Reader:
Ray Martinez is a Christian even though like all bigots he
vehemently argues against the teachings of Christ (= love
your neighbor as yourself). Despite these facts do not think
that Ray is a Bigot, he has assured everyone that he is a
Christian.
--
Bob C.
"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
- McNameless
Skitter...@yahoo.com
Unfortunately, being a liar and being a Christian are not mutually
exclusive. I wish they were, because if that were the case the world would
be a more honest place.
I absolutely agree with you about Ron's integrity and honesty being
self-evident. He is a credit to whatever groups, religious or otherwise, he
chooses to associate himself with.
and regarding Ray: I feel sorry for him because he can't connect to the
larger community of Christianity that surrounds him because of his anger and
hatreds. Pity doesn't justify giving him a pass on his remarks and
attitudes, but none the less, I feel sorry for him.
Skitter the Cat
--
The Source For Premium Newsgroup Access
Great Speed, Great Retention
1 GB/Day for only $8.95
Ye Old One
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>Ray Martinez, Christian
and worshiper of the evil Gene 'Expletive Delete' Scott.
--
Bob.
Ye Old One
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>How much does your atheism have to do with your opinion?
>
>Ray
How much does your worship of the (thankfully for us all) late Gene
'Expletive Deleted' Scott have to do with your opinions?
--
Bob.
Frank J
(snip)
>
> Dear Casual Reader:
>
> Ron O. is a Christian even though like all atheists he vehemently
> argues against Intelligent Design (= the observation that the Father
> of his Savior produced reality). Despite these facts do not think that
> Ron is an Atheist, he has assued everyone that he is a Christian.
>
> Ray Martinez, Christian
Dear Casual Reader:
Note that Ray conveniently omitted the term "creationist" from his
signature, this time at least, so that he can pretend to represent ID.
Unfortunalely the ID leaders would *not* agree that ID "= the
observation that the Father of his Savior produced reality" (whatever
that means - and "His" should be capitalized, and I assume it means
the generic possessive, not that the Father needed a Savior).
Frank J
What good is losing court cases if they keep getting the publicity
they want? Heck, Kevin Trudeau went to *jail* and still sells
pseudoscience books.
The only benefit I can think of is that small towns like Dover get hit
with legal bills, and people like Howard Ahmanson, who could easily
bail them all out just look the other way, so eventually these people
will realize, and not appreciate, that they are being taken for a
ride. Given the authoritarian mindset, however, it won't be soon that
they'll stop saying "thank you, sir, may I have another."
>
> ================================================
> Lenny Flank
> "There are no loose threads in the web of life"
>
> Author:
> "Deception by Design: The Intelligent Design Movement in America"http://www.redandblackpublishers.com/deceptionbydesign.html
>
> Creation "Science" Debunked:http://www.geocities.com/lflank- Hide quoted text -
'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank
(snip)
>
> What good is losing court cases if they keep getting the publicity
> they want? Heck, Kevin Trudeau went to *jail* and still sells
> pseudoscience books.
Well heck, when it comes to pseudoscience and idiotic things that
people believe in, creationism ranks pretty far down on the list. A
higher proportion of people in the US believe that space aliens are
kidnapping people from their beds than believe evolution doesn't
happen. The flying saucer and ESP and crystal energy kooks sell far
more books than Wells or Dembski ever have. When it comes to nutty
things that people believe, creationism is STILL just second-rate.
(shrug)
The danger from creationism comes from its POLITICAL aims. And as
long as they keep losing in court, those POLITICAL aims go nowhere.
Of course, it is entirely possible that the Supreme Court may one day
reject the separation of church and state, and therefore order
creationism to be taught to everyone.
When that day comes, though, "science education" will be the very
LEAST of our problems.
>
> The only benefit I can think of is that small towns like Dover get hit
> with legal bills, and people like Howard Ahmanson, who could easily
> bail them all out just look the other way, so eventually these people
> will realize, and not appreciate, that they are being taken for a
> ride. Given the authoritarian mindset, however, it won't be soon that
> they'll stop saying "thank you, sir, may I have another."
Well, they have already been bitching at the Republicrat Party for not
delivering anything they promised to the fundies. To which the
Republicrats simply shrug and say "tough shit". After all, what can
the fundies DO about it --- join the Democans?
Yes, the Republicrats are indeed using the fundies like a ten-dollar
whore. The fundies are indeed chumps, but they are WILLING chumps.
After all, it's the only way they can have a seat at the table.
Ernest Major
Martinez <pyram...@yahoo.com> writes
would like to point out that Ray misrepresents the nature of Intelligent
Design, which is instead a religio-political movement which as a
tactical move tell lies about evolution.
--
alias Ernest Major
Ye Old One
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>>
>> > > whether or not the christian god exists, intelligent design isnt
>> > > science and isnt convincing. perhaps ron o has an even better reason
>> > > to believe in the christian god that he can share with us all.
>>
>> > How much does your atheism have to do with your opinion?
>>
>> none at all. i evaluate individual claims based on their own merits.
>> the claims of intelligent design advocates are either outright false,
>> or do not support the conclusions they claim they do.
>>
>
>Are you saying that your atheism has nothing to do with your rejection
>of Intelligent Design?
ID is rejected by science because there is no evidence for it.
>
>By the way: I just obtained control of a bridge in Brooklyn, looks
>like a cash cow - email me if you want in.
Learnt dishonesty from one of the greats I see, you god (Gene
'Expletive Deleted' Scott) would be so proud of your dishonesty.
>
>Ray
--
Bob.
Desertphile
> Ron is an Atheist [sic], he has assued everyone that he is a Christian.
The word is spelled "atheist," not "Atheist."
And your insistance that only liars and deceivers and ignorant
morons can be Christians is, frankly, bloody insulting.
--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"I've hired myself out as a tourist attraction." -- Spike
snex
> On 21 Apr 2007 15:57:26 -0700, Ray Martinez <pyramid...@yahoo.com>
i agree. he forgot the deluded.
DJT
> > > > whether or not the christian god exists, intelligent design isnt
> > > > science and isnt convincing. perhaps ron o has an even better reason
> > > > to believe in the christian god that he can share with us all.
>
> > > How much does your atheism have to do with your opinion?
>
> > none at all. i evaluate individual claims based on their own merits.
> > the claims of intelligent design advocates are either outright false,
> > or do not support the conclusions they claim they do.
>
> Are you saying that your atheism has nothing to do with your rejection
> of Intelligent Design?
That seems to be what he is saying, although he hasn't claimed to be
an atheist.
>
> By the way: I just obtained control of a bridge in Brooklyn, looks
> like a cash cow - email me if you want in.
Ray, are you still trying to unload that bridge you bought? Just
because are gullible enough to buy a bridge from a con man doesn't
mean others are.
DJT
DJT
About the time that distaste for dishonesty became grounds for calling
someone an atheist.
DJT
Bob Casanova
talk.origins, posted by DJT <mouse...@earthlink.net>:
I assume you meant either "taste for dishonesty" or
"distaste for honesty", since it's Ray's trait you're
referencing...
Dr.GH
> Scientific Controversy Over Darwin," and present infor- mation that
> challenges evolutionary theory.
>
> Read it athttp://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/187743/
>
> J. Spaceman
I really think that we should lay back and let them do it. There is
no way to get a second "Dover" without a second trial.
However, considering the radical right controls the Federal Courts, we
might need to wait for another presidential election and a few more
retired SCUS judges.
Desertphile
<{$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <1177196611.7...@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Ray
> Martinez <pyram...@yahoo.com> writes
> >Dear Casual Reader:
> >
> >Ron O. is a Christian even though like all atheists he vehemently
> >argues against Intelligent Design (= the observation that the Father
> >of his Savior produced reality). Despite these facts do not think that
> >Ron is an Atheist, he has assued everyone that he is a Christian.
> >
> >Ray Martinez, Christian
By *NO* wild stretch of the imagination can Ray be considered a
Christian: Christians follow the teachings of Jesus in the
Christian Testament, which RAY MARTINEZ DOES NOT DO. In fact, Ray
is far more anti-Christ than mosts Creationists in talk.origins
> On the remote chance that a sufficient uninformed reader is present, I
> would like to point out that Ray misrepresents the nature of Intelligent
> Design, which is instead a religio-political movement which as a
> tactical move tell lies about evolution.
Mister Martinez misrepresents just about everything he pretends to
write about. He even made up an imaginary brother!
--
Desertphile
wrote:
> On Apr 21, 7:31 pm, Ray Martinez <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > whether or not the christian god exists, intelligent design isnt
> > > > > science and isnt convincing. perhaps ron o has an even better reason
> > > > > to believe in the christian god that he can share with us all.
> >
> > > > How much does your atheism have to do with your opinion?
> >
> > > none at all. i evaluate individual claims based on their own merits.
> > > the claims of intelligent design advocates are either outright false,
> > > or do not support the conclusions they claim they do.
> >
> > Are you saying that your atheism has nothing to do with your rejection
> > of Intelligent Design?
Ray would have people believe that intelligent people reject
"intelligent design" Creationism because they are "atheists," not
because "intelligent design" Creationism is false. This appears to
be because Ray is an occult-addled anti-Christ who believes only
atheists are intelligent enough, moral enough, and ethical enough
to reject falsehoods and deception.
Mister Ray Martinez insists Ron O cannot be a Christian because
Ron O objects to lies, misinformation, disinformation, deceit, and
falsehoods. That's bloody insulting and arrogant.
> That seems to be what he is saying, although he hasn't claimed to be
> an atheist.
> > By the way: I just obtained control of a bridge in Brooklyn, looks
> > like a cash cow - email me if you want in.
>
> Ray, are you still trying to unload that bridge you bought? Just
> because are gullible enough to buy a bridge from a con man doesn't
> mean others are.
Maybe he can sell it to his imaginary brother.
Desertphile
wrote:
The problem is that in the USA it costs a bloody hell of a lot of
money to defend the USA Constitution using the court system (which
a few people still call "the justice system"): about two million
of dollars was spent defending the First Amendment in Dover, PA,
and the perpetrators did not pay for the crime--- citizens of
Pennsylvania did.
Hell, the perpetrators were enough caught commiting perjury and
they were not artrested and indicted for those crimes.
Creationists in Rogers want to squander hundreds of thousands of
dollars, which the citizens must pay for, to inflict their occult
superstitions into the local public schools---- knowing damn well
that it is against the law, immoral, and unethical. They care
nothing about the expense because they don't have to pay it: THEIR
VICTIMS MUST PAY IT.