Noah's Ark theme park wants to show the Flood was "plausible"

[TFB]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/31/us-usa-religion-ark-idUSBRE94U12U20130531

This can only go well. Having updated the classic Torpedo Ye Arke a bit a few days ago, I could not help thinking about that one part: "I'll even put up some of the money... so long as I get to record the launch of said vessel. And so long as those who say that such a craft would be safe are willing to stay on it while it's being launched. Me, I figure that I'd get some great pics."

[Mike Painter]

Lack of funds, declining attendance, expiring credits, and threat of a
law suit are all good news.

Let us prey that it will be as successful as the one god told Pastor
Richard Greene to build in 1974
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/uncategorized/if-the-flood-comes-too-soon-this-ark-wont-be-quite-ready-430255/

PS. NO, I did not misspell it.

[Harry K]

On Jun 3, 9:36�am, TFB <theflyingbast...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/31/us-usa-religion-ark-idUSBRE...

>
> This can only go well. Having updated the classic Torpedo Ye Arke a bit a few days ago, I could not help thinking about that one part: "I'll even put up some of the money... so long as I get to record the launch of said vessel. And so long as those who say that such a craft would be safe are willing to stay on it while it's being launched. Me, I figure that I'd get some great pics."

Just be sure they don't cheat, they are "Christians" ya know. No use
of iron of any kind, shape or purpose, all wood constructions.

Harry K

[Walter Bushell]

In article <d892b726-c98e-4fc8...@googlegroups.com>,
TFB <theflyin...@gmail.com> wrote:

> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/31/us-usa-religion-ark-idUSBRE94U12U201

> 30531
>
> This can only go well. Having updated the classic Torpedo Ye Arke a bit a few
> days ago, I could not help thinking about that one part: "I'll even put up
> some of the money... so long as I get to record the launch of said vessel.
> And so long as those who say that such a craft would be safe are willing to
> stay on it while it's being launched. Me, I figure that I'd get some great
> pics."

Should ye Ark pass the launch test, can we have it sail into a
hurricane?

--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx

[Walter Bushell]

In article <2rqpq8ludujabp1na...@4ax.com>,
Mike Painter <mddotp...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/uncategorized/if-the-flood-comes-too
> -soon-this-ark-wont-be-quite-ready-430255/

And steel framework? Ye ark v. 1 was made outa wood.

[Walter Bushell]

In article
<5ee1e79e-ef60-431c...@s2g2000pbz.googlegroups.com>,

Can they use bronze?

[Mike Painter]

On Mon, 03 Jun 2013 19:15:23 -0400, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com>
wrote:

>In article <d892b726-c98e-4fc8...@googlegroups.com>,
> TFB <theflyin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/31/us-usa-religion-ark-idUSBRE94U12U201
>> 30531
>>
>> This can only go well. Having updated the classic Torpedo Ye Arke a bit a few
>> days ago, I could not help thinking about that one part: "I'll even put up
>> some of the money... so long as I get to record the launch of said vessel.
>> And so long as those who say that such a craft would be safe are willing to
>> stay on it while it's being launched. Me, I figure that I'd get some great
>> pics."
>
>Should ye Ark pass the launch test, can we have it sail into a
>hurricane?

A stiff wind and moderate waves would be enough. It would turn
sideways and capsize in short order.

[Harry K]

On Jun 3, 4:18�pm, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
> In article

> <5ee1e79e-ef60-431c-a81d-3ecc37726...@s2g2000pbz.googlegroups.com>,

If they can hand forge them. I'd like to seethem put up a display of
hand hewing timbers using the techniques and tools of that age.

Harry K

[Ron O]

On Jun 3, 11:36�am, TFB <theflyingbast...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/31/us-usa-religion-ark-idUSBRE...
>

> This can only go well. Having updated the classic Torpedo Ye Arke a bit a few days ago, I could not help thinking about that one part: "I'll even put up some of the money... so long as I get to record the launch of said vessel. And so long as those who say that such a craft would be safe are willing to stay on it while it's being launched. Me, I figure that I'd get some great pics."

QUOTE:
Scientists have cataloged 1.3 million species of animals, but Ark
Encounter protagonists figure Noah could have brought on just 1,000 to
2,000 pairs to represent every animal "kind," as the Bible puts it.
END QUOTE:

It isn't just the species that exist today, but extinct species. The
AIG claims that dinos were on the Ark. Before the dinos there were
the Permian fauna and after the dinos there was the mammalian
megafauna that are long gone.

I wonder what happened to Woody's estimates of 30,000? I recall that
Woody was limiting himself to family and genera and forgetting about
species. They have to have 7 pairs of all the clean kinds. I wonder
if feathered dinos would have been considered to be clean kinds. T.
rex was supposed to be a vegetarian according to the Ark parkers.

What should be part of the park is an Ark biosphere. Devote half the
ark to half the number of animals and people to take care of them, or
even all 8 people to take care of them for a year. I'll even let them
have modern ventilation if they can come up with some story of how
Noah ventilated the three levels using only one window, but they have
to pump the bilge and take care of the animal waste the old fashioned
way. They have to survive for a year and all food has to come from
storage.

It could be the biggest draw at the park for a couple of weeks.

Ron Okimoto

[Walter Bushell]

In article <sgfqq85c33agkpt5m...@4ax.com>,

Just need to be sure its in deep water with plenty of sharks.

[Walter Bushell]

In article
<1dc7eb78-5e5b-4768...@v10g2000pbv.googlegroups.com>,

Well you see, Noah was apparently the ruler a wide domain to have the
wealth to obtain all that bronze. Is my supposition correct that
bronze was not inferior to iron or steel, but mainly that iron was,
after smelting was discovered so much cheaper.

[dav...@agent.com]

Ron O <roki...@cox.net> wrote:

>QUOTE:
>Scientists have cataloged 1.3 million species of animals, but Ark
>Encounter protagonists figure Noah could have brought on just 1,000 to
>2,000 pairs to represent every animal "kind," as the Bible puts it.
>END QUOTE:
>
>It isn't just the species that exist today, but extinct species. The
>AIG claims that dinos were on the Ark. Before the dinos there were
>the Permian fauna and after the dinos there was the mammalian
>megafauna that are long gone.

Panel: US should let nature cull wild horse herds

Jun 05 2013, SCOTT SONNER, Associated Press

RENO NV — A scathing independent scientific review of the U.S.
govt's management of wild horses concludes the continued emphasis
on mustang roundups to help protect the public rangeland is doomed
to financial, social & political failure. In short: it's probably
time to let nature cull the herds. A 14-member panel assembled by
the Nat'l Science Academy's Nat'l Research Council, at the request
of the Bureau of Land Management, concluded BLM's removal of nearly
100K horses from the Western range over the past decade is probably
having the opposite effect of its intention to ease eco damage &
reduce overpopulated herds. By stepping in prematurely when food &
water supplies remain adequate, & with most natural predators long
gone, the land management agency is producing artificial conditions
that ultimately serve to perpetuate population growth, the committee
said Wednesday in a 451-page report recommending more emphasis on a
variety of methods of fertility control to keep horse ##s in check.

The research panel sympathized with BLM's struggle to find middle
ground between horse advocates who say the federally protected
animals have a right to be on the range & livestock ranchers who
see them as unwelcome competitors for forage. It noted there's
"little if any public support" for allowing harm to come to either
the horses or the rangeland itself. "However, the current removal
strategy used by BLM perpetuates the overpopulation problem by
maintaining the ## of animals at levels below the carrying capacity
of the land, protecting the rangeland & the horse population in the
short term but resulting in continually high population growth and
exacerbating the long-term problem," the rpt said. "As a result,
the ## of animals processed thru holding facilities is probably
increased by management," the panel said, adding that "business-as-
usual" will be expensive & unproductive. "Addressing the problem
immediately with a long-term view is probably a more affordable
option than continuing to remove horses to long-term holding
facilities."

The report is sure to stir controversy among various groups that
have promoted everything from a moratorium on all horse roundups
to legalizing the sale of gathered mustangs for slaughter. The
conflict has raged for decades but has intensified in recent years
for cash-strapped federal land managers with skyrocketing bills for
food & corrals & no room for incoming animals. The ## of animals
at holding facilities surpassed the estimated number on the range
in 10 Western states earlier this year for the first time since
Nixon signed the Free-Roaming Horses & Burros Act of '71. Altho
the scientific panel questioned the accuracy of the ##s, a recent
BLM report shows 49,369 wild horses & 1,348 wild burros were being
housed in govt corrals & pastures. The report said 31,500 wild
horses & 5,800 burros remained in the wild — about half of them in
Nevada. "No one really wants to see more horses in long-term
holding just from an economic viewpoint," said Guy Palmer, a
pathologist from Washington St Univ who chaired the research cmte.
"Secondly, this is not the vision that is associated with what the
public wants to see with the horses on these wild lands."

Compounding the problem is a horse census system & rangeland assess-
ment practice rife with inconsistencies & poor documentation, the
committee said, noting a previous NRC committee charged with the
same task reached the same conclusion 30 years ago. "Record keeping
needs to be substantially improved," the report said. Panel members
who began the review in June 2011 said they found little scientific
basis for establishing what BLM considers to be appropriate, eco-
logically based caps on horse numbers and even less basis for
estimating the overall population itself. "It seems that the nat'l
stats are the product of 100s of subjective, probably independent,
judgments & assumptions by range managers & administrators," the
report said. BLM's current population estimate likely is anywhere
from 10-50% short of the true level, the report said. The agency
averaged removing 8,000 horses from the range annually from 2002-11.
Last year, it spent 60% of its wild horse budget on holding
facilities alone, more than $40 million, the committee said.

[Mike Painter]

On Tue, 04 Jun 2013 07:01:51 -0400, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com>
wrote:

>

>Well you see, Noah was apparently the ruler a wide domain to have the
>wealth to obtain all that bronze. Is my supposition correct that
>bronze was not inferior to iron or steel, but mainly that iron was,
>after smelting was discovered so much cheaper.
>

Steel is much better than both. Good bronze will be better than poor
iron but good iron is better than good bronze.
Good iron is more difficult to make than bronze

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze#History

[J. J. Lodder]

Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:

> In article

> <1dc7eb78-5e5b-4768...@v10g2000pbv.googlegroups.com>,
> Harry K <tur...@q.com> wrote:
>

> > On Jun 3, 4:18Â pm, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <5ee1e79e-ef60-431c-a81d-3ecc37726...@s2g2000pbz.googlegroups.com>,

> > > Â Harry K <turn...@q.com> wrote:

> > >
> > > > On Jun 3, 9:36Â am, TFB <theflyingbast...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/31/us-usa-religion-ark-idUSBRE..
> > >

> > > > > This can only go well. Having updated the classic Torpedo Ye Arke
> > > > > a bit a few days ago, I could not help thinking about that one
> > > > > part: "I'll even put up some of the money... so long as I get to
> > > > > record the launch of said vessel. And so long as those who say
> > > > > that such a craft would be safe are willing to stay on it while
> > > > > it's being launched. Me, I figure that I'd get some great pics."
> > >

> > > > Just be sure they don't cheat, they are "Christians" ya know. Â No use

> > > > of iron of any kind, shape or purpose, all wood constructions.
> > >
> > > > Harry K
> > >
> > > Can they use bronze?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.

> > > Â me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx

> >
> > If they can hand forge them. I'd like to seethem put up a display of
> > hand hewing timbers using the techniques and tools of that age.
> >
> > Harry K
>
> Well you see, Noah was apparently the ruler a wide domain to have the
> wealth to obtain all that bronze. Is my supposition correct that
> bronze was not inferior to iron or steel, but mainly that iron was,
> after smelting was discovered so much cheaper.

Iron was completely unknown at the time,
so that isn't a point,

Jan

[Ron O]

On Jun 5, 12:42 pm, dav...@agent.com wrote:

>  Ron O <rokim...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >QUOTE:
> >Scientists have cataloged 1.3 million species of animals, but Ark
> >Encounter protagonists figure Noah could have brought on just 1,000 to
> >2,000 pairs to represent every animal "kind," as the Bible puts it.
> >END QUOTE:
>
> >It isn't just the species that exist today, but extinct species.  The
> >AIG claims that dinos were on the Ark.  Before the dinos there were
> >the Permian fauna and after the dinos there was the mammalian
> >megafauna that are long gone.
>
> Panel: US should let nature cull wild horse herds
>
> Jun 05 2013, SCOTT SONNER, Associated Press
>
> RENO NV — A scathing independent scientific review of the U.S.
> govt's management of wild horses concludes the continued emphasis
> on mustang roundups to help protect the public rangeland is doomed
> to financial, social & political failure. In short: it's probably
> time to let nature cull the herds.  A 14-member panel assembled by
> the Nat'l Science Academy's Nat'l Research Council, at the request
> of the Bureau of Land Management, concluded BLM's removal of nearly
> 100K horses from the Western range over the past decade is probably

SNIP:

I don't know what this has to do with what I wrote, and you likely
don't either.

Ron Okimoto

[chris thompson]

> If they can hand forge them. I'd like to see them put up a display of

>
> hand hewing timbers using the techniques and tools of that age.
>
>
>
> Harry K

IIRC they were trying to hire Amish woodworkers and blacksmiths, since they figured they were the closest artisans around today, who might have been around at the time of Ye Olde Arke. Not that I'm defending them (look up my posting history) but you have give them a little credit. Not enough to pass the class, but a little.

Chris

[J. J. Lodder]

chris thompson <chris.li...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, June 3, 2013 11:57:11 PM UTC-4, Harry K wrote:

> > On Jun 3, 4:18ï¿∏pm, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In article
> >
> > > <5ee1e79e-ef60-431c-a81d-3ecc37726...@s2g2000pbz.googlegroups.com>,
> >

> > > ï¿∏Harry K <turn...@q.com> wrote:

> >
> > >
> >
> > > > On Jun 3, 9:36ï¿∏am, TFB <theflyingbast...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > >http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/31/us-usa-religion-ark-idUSBRE..
> >
> > >
> >

> > > > > This can only go well. Having updated the classic Torpedo Ye Arke
> > a bit a
> >
> > > > > few days ago, I could not help thinking about that one part: "I'll
> > even put
> >
> > > > > up some of the money... so long as I get to record the launch of
> > said
> >
> > > > > vessel. And so long as those who say that such a craft would be
> > safe are
> >
> > > > > willing to stay on it while it's being launched. Me, I figure that
> > I'd get
> >
> > > > > some great pics."
> >
> > >
> >

> > > > Just be sure they don't cheat, they are "Christians" ya know. ï¿∏No use

> >
> > > > of iron of any kind, shape or purpose, all wood constructions.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Harry K
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Can they use bronze?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > --
> >
> > > Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
> >

> > > ï¿∏me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx

> >
> >
> >
> > If they can hand forge them. I'd like to see them put up a display of
> >
> > hand hewing timbers using the techniques and tools of that age.
> >
> >
> >
> > Harry K
>
> IIRC they were trying to hire Amish woodworkers and blacksmiths,

> since they fgured they were the closest artisans around today,

> who might have been around at the time of Ye Olde Arke.

Really? They know how to make and use bronze tools?

> Not that I'm defending them (look up my posting history) but you have give
> them a little credit. Not enough to pass the class, but a little.

Not for this,

Jan

[jillery]

It might be an interesting to compare the techniques of the Amish with
those known to be used in the alleged time and place of Noah.

[Walter Bushell]

In article <5avuq81knmitjkuri...@4ax.com>,

And that states that iron took over mainly because it was cheaper
particularly the poor grades.

" the Bronze Age gave way to the Iron Age because iron was easier to
find and to process into a poor grade of metal; although it can be
made into higher grades, doing that takes significantly more effort
and skill. Bronze was still used during the Iron Age."

[Harry K]

Along with the tools of the age. Were those idiots forced to use the
tools and materials of the age, they would finally realize just how
asinine the ark story is.

Harry K

[Mike Painter]

On Thu, 6 Jun 2013 11:17:49 -0700 (PDT), Harry K <tur...@q.com>
wrote:

>
>> It might be an interesting to compare the techniques of the Amish with
>> those known to be used in the alleged time and place of Noah.
>
>Along with the tools of the age. Were those idiots forced to use the
>tools and materials of the age, they would finally realize just how
>asinine the ark story is.

Any *ship* built along the description of the ark and made of wood
would fail using any techniques. That includes the pinnacle of ship
building just before iron came along.

The barge like suggestions of the last few years would fare even
worse.

The simple first step would be for them to build a large barn with the
capacity of the Ark.
1. Make sure it is waterproof.
2. Fill it with as many "kind" as they wanted. (Make sure there are a
lot of canaries)
3. Fill it with as much food for whichever version they wanted.
4. Place eight people inside.
5. Close the ONE window.
6. Use CCTV to see if they are all OK, the animals are being fed and
watered and the methane hasn't killed them all.

[Walter Bushell]

In article <a2003e2d-3886-4212...@googlegroups.com>,

chris thompson <chris.li...@gmail.com> wrote:

> IIRC they were trying to hire Amish woodworkers and blacksmiths, since they
> figured they were the closest artisans around today, who might have been
> around at the time of Ye Olde Arke. Not that I'm defending them (look up my
> posting history) but you have give them a little credit. Not enough to pass
> the class, but a little.
>
> Chris

Some times I wish there really were a sanity clause.

[Walter Bushell]

In article <hojvq8lrlo9aa6r49...@4ax.com>,

jillery <69jp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 5 Jun 2013 16:30:16 -0700 (PDT), chris thompson
> <chris.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, June 3, 2013 11:57:11 PM UTC-4, Harry K wrote:

> >> On Jun 3, 4:18ï¿∏pm, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > In article
> >>
> >> > <5ee1e79e-ef60-431c-a81d-3ecc37726...@s2g2000pbz.googlegroups.com>,
> >>

> >> > ï¿∏Harry K <turn...@q.com> wrote:

> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > On Jun 3, 9:36ï¿∏am, TFB <theflyingbast...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > > >http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/31/us-usa-religion-ark-idUSBRE.
> >> > > >..
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > This can only go well. Having updated the classic Torpedo Ye Arke a
> >> > > > bit a
> >>
> >> > > > few days ago, I could not help thinking about that one part: "I'll
> >> > > > even put
> >>
> >> > > > up some of the money... so long as I get to record the launch of
> >> > > > said
> >>
> >> > > > vessel. And so long as those who say that such a craft would be safe
> >> > > > are
> >>
> >> > > > willing to stay on it while it's being launched. Me, I figure that
> >> > > > I'd get
> >>
> >> > > > some great pics."
> >>
> >> >
> >>

> >> > > Just be sure they don't cheat, they are "Christians" ya know. ï¿∏No

> >> > > use
> >>
> >> > > of iron of any kind, shape or purpose, all wood constructions.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > Harry K
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > Can they use bronze?
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > --
> >>
> >> > Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
> >>

> >> > ï¿∏me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx

> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> If they can hand forge them. I'd like to see them put up a display of
> >>
> >> hand hewing timbers using the techniques and tools of that age.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Harry K
> >
> >IIRC they were trying to hire Amish woodworkers and blacksmiths, since they
> >figured they were the closest artisans around today, who might have been
> >around at the time of Ye Olde Arke. Not that I'm defending them (look up my
> >posting history) but you have give them a little credit. Not enough to pass
> >the class, but a little.
>
>
> It might be an interesting to compare the techniques of the Amish with
> those known to be used in the alleged time and place of Noah.

For one think, the Amish are iron age and Noah bronze.

[Walter Bushell]

In article <s2o2r8dkif9ord8f6...@4ax.com>,

Why step 6?

[Tim Norfolk]

To avoid cruelty to animals?

[Mike Painter]

On Fri, 07 Jun 2013 12:07:52 -0400, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com>
wrote:

I'm up to two reasons now.
We could sell the live coverage to the Christian religious networks
and make millions.

The urge to breath comes mainly from an excess of CO2. A lack of O2 is
very, very minor for most people.

As methane replaced O2 the people would pass out and die without being
aware of it. My CCTV would save their lives.
(Probably not, getting the one window open or getting through the
walls would take too long.)

[Harry K]

On Jun 7, 11:25�am, Mike Painter <mddotpain...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Jun 2013 12:07:52 -0400, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> >In article <s2o2r8dkif9ord8f6ogi1r2cva9am5p...@4ax.com>,
> > Mike Painter <mddotpain...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >> On Thu, 6 Jun 2013 11:17:49 -0700 (PDT), Harry K <turn...@q.com>

And the downside of those 8 idiots dying is? The animals of course
need to be saved.

Harry K

[Father Haskell]

The blades (technically, the irons) on my favorite 19th
century handplanes are laminated, high quality "cast"
(Bessemer) steel welded to cheap heavy iron bases.
It supports the otherwise brittle hard slip, but more
importantly, saved the Ohio plane company an
estimated 20 cents per each plane.

[Father Haskell]

The tools from the Amish blacksmiths would be first rate.
Better than the rocks and scrapers Noah used.

[jillery]

So no meaningful comparison at all. I'm not surprised.

[Mike Painter]

I just saw a "Modern Marvels" where the subject was axes and that
method was common in the "good old days"

You took a billet of iron, heated it, bent it nearly in half then
inserted a piece of steel and pounded.

[Ron O]

It took Noah and his sons a hundred years to build the ark. They were
either master craftsmen taking a lot of pride in their work or didn't
know what they were doing. The Bible doesn't say how they kept the
ark from rotting out before it was finished.

Ron Okimoto

[Mark Isaak]

On 6/8/13 5:35 AM, Ron O wrote:
> On Jun 3, 10:57 pm, Harry K <turn...@q.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 3, 4:18 pm, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> In article
>>> <5ee1e79e-ef60-431c-a81d-3ecc37726...@s2g2000pbz.googlegroups.com>,
>>> Harry K <turn...@q.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> On Jun 3, 9:36 am, TFB <theflyingbast...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/31/us-usa-religion-ark-idUSBRE...
>>
>>>>> This can only go well. Having updated the classic Torpedo Ye Arke a bit a
>>>>> few days ago, I could not help thinking about that one part: "I'll even put
>>>>> up some of the money... so long as I get to record the launch of said
>>>>> vessel. And so long as those who say that such a craft would be safe are
>>>>> willing to stay on it while it's being launched. Me, I figure that I'd get
>>>>> some great pics."
>>
>>>> Just be sure they don't cheat, they are "Christians" ya know. No use
>>>> of iron of any kind, shape or purpose, all wood constructions.
>>

>>> Can they use bronze?

>>
>> If they can hand forge them. I'd like to seethem put up a display of
>> hand hewing timbers using the techniques and tools of that age.
>

> It took Noah and his sons a hundred years to build the ark. They were
> either master craftsmen taking a lot of pride in their work or didn't
> know what they were doing. The Bible doesn't say how they kept the
> ark from rotting out before it was finished.

A desert environment would accomplish that. There are 150-year-old
ghost towns near Death Valley where the newspaper used on the shacks to
keep out the drafts is still readable.

I wonder, though, how much trouble the ark builders would have with wood
warping when the rains came.

--
Mark Isaak eciton (at) curioustaxonomy (dot) net
"It is certain, from experience, that the smallest grain of natural
honesty and benevolence has more effect on men's conduct, than the most
pompous views suggested by theological theories and systems." - D. Hume

[jillery]

On Sat, 8 Jun 2013 05:35:30 -0700 (PDT), Ron O <roki...@cox.net>
wrote:

That gopher wood must have been miraculous stuff.

[Roger Shrubber]

Mark Isaak wrote:
> On 6/8/13 5:35 AM, Ron O wrote:
>> On Jun 3, 10:57 pm, Harry K <turn...@q.com> wrote:
>>> On Jun 3, 4:18 pm, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:

>> It took Noah and his sons a hundred years to build the ark. They were
>> either master craftsmen taking a lot of pride in their work or didn't
>> know what they were doing. The Bible doesn't say how they kept the
>> ark from rotting out before it was finished.
>
> A desert environment would accomplish that. There are 150-year-old
> ghost towns near Death Valley where the newspaper used on the shacks to
> keep out the drafts is still readable.
>
> I wonder, though, how much trouble the ark builders would have with wood
> warping when the rains came.

There's no record of gopher wood either rotting or warping.

[Ron O]

It probably wasn't a desert before the flood. Eden still existed
between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.

Ron Okimoto

[Ron O]

On Jun 8, 9:26 am, jillery <69jpi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Jun 2013 05:35:30 -0700 (PDT), Ron O <rokim...@cox.net>

It didn't survive the flood.

Ron Okimoto

[James Beck]

Was all the gopher wood assumed into heaven with Jesus?

[Free Lunch]

On Sat, 08 Jun 2013 09:06:30 -0600, James Beck <jdbec...@yahoo.com>
wrote in talk.origins:

Once you get the suckers to believe Noah's Flood happened, it's no
trouble getting them to believe that the wood box designed by someone
who knows nothing about boats can have magical wood.

[Roger Shrubber]

Gopher wood makes an excellent fishing pole.

[Harry K]

On Jun 8, 7:26 am, jillery <69jpi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Jun 2013 05:35:30 -0700 (PDT), Ron O <rokim...@cox.net>

Gopher wood is just a misunderstanding. Noah said "Go for some more
wood".

Harry K

[Free Lunch]

On Sun, 09 Jun 2013 01:21:58 +0930, Roger Shrubber
<rog.sh...@gmail.com> wrote in talk.origins:

You can get a lot of fish stories out of them.

[jillery]

On Sun, 09 Jun 2013 01:21:58 +0930, Roger Shrubber

Especially for gophers.

[jillery]

On Sat, 8 Jun 2013 08:59:55 -0700 (PDT), Harry K <tur...@q.com>
wrote:

And his sons obeyed him. Another miracle!

[Paul J Gans]

Why would heaven need gofers?

--
--- Paul J. Gans

[Father Haskell]

On Jun 3, 7:15 pm, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <d892b726-c98e-4fc8...@googlegroups.com>,

>
>  TFB <theflyingbast...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/31/us-usa-religion-ark-idUSBRE...

> > 30531

>
> > This can only go well. Having updated the classic Torpedo Ye Arke a bit a few
> > days ago, I could not help thinking about that one part: "I'll even put up
> > some of the money... so long as I get to record the launch of said vessel.
> > And so long as those who say that such a craft would be safe are willing to
> > stay on it while it's being launched. Me, I figure that I'd get some great
> > pics."
>

> Should ye Ark pass the launch test, can we have it sail into a
> hurricane?

How about repeating the Titanic's maiden voyage?

[James Beck]

Ya got me. I never understood why an omnipresent deity would need
messengers, either. Maybe it's like Galaxy Quest where Sigourney
Weaver's character Gwen DiMarco had only one job, to talk to the
computer. As she says: "Look! I have one job on this lousy ship, it's
*stupid*, but I'm gonna do it! Okay?"

[Walter Bushell]

In article
<35338a0c-1b18-4995...@rh15g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,

Better yet replace the animals with an equivalent amount of
creationists. No need for CCTV.

[Paul J Gans]

Yup. It is perfectly clear that the monotheistic god was
supposed to be the ultimate just ruler. And so was created
with the trappings of a ruler, messengers, aides, gofers,
layabouts and all.

[Harry K]

On Jun 8, 12:40�pm, jillery <69jpi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Jun 2013 08:59:55 -0700 (PDT), Harry K <turn...@q.com>

Now _that_ is just too crazy to believe!

Harry K

[J. J. Lodder]

Ron O <roki...@cox.net> wrote:

> On Jun 3, 10:57 pm, Harry K <turn...@q.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 3, 4:18 pm, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <5ee1e79e-ef60-431c-a81d-3ecc37726...@s2g2000pbz.googlegroups.com>,
> > > Harry K <turn...@q.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > On Jun 3, 9:36 am, TFB <theflyingbast...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > >http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/31/us-usa-religion-ark-idUSBR.

> >
> > > > > This can only go well. Having updated the classic Torpedo Ye Arke
> > > > > a bit a few days ago, I could not help thinking about that one
> > > > > part: "I'll even put up some of the money... so long as I get to
> > > > > record the launch of said vessel. And so long as those who say
> > > > > that such a craft would be safe are willing to stay on it while
> > > > > it's being launched. Me, I figure that I'd get some great pics."
> >
> > > > Just be sure they don't cheat, they are "Christians" ya know. No use
> > > > of iron of any kind, shape or purpose, all wood constructions.
> >
> > > > Harry K
> >
> > > Can they use bronze?
> >
> > > --
> > > Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
> > > me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
> >
> > If they can hand forge them. I'd like to seethem put up a display of
> > hand hewing timbers using the techniques and tools of that age.
> >
> > Harry K
>
> It took Noah and his sons a hundred years to build the ark. They were
> either master craftsmen taking a lot of pride in their work or didn't
> know what they were doing. The Bible doesn't say how they kept the
> ark from rotting out before it was finished.

That's one of the strangest parts of the story:
god waiting over a hundred years
with a destruction of all things living
after having decided upon it,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

The flood waters must have rotted all of it away,

Jan

[jillery]

But not until after the floodwaters receded. Intelligent Design!

[Ron O]

On Jun 9, 5:32 am, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) wrote:

A thousand years is like a day....

The ark was a big structure and Noah only had himself and his three
sons to build it. Noah was also tasked with housing and feeding all
the animals. He had to build stalls and cages, feeders and waterers.
8 people had to take care of all the feeding and cleaning up of animal
waste. It would have all taken preparation. God only said that he
would bring the animals. Noah had to take care of them for a year
during the flood.

Ron Okimoto

[Harry K]

If that cross was made of gopher wood, they could gather up all the
pieces that exist today and have enough to build a fleet of arks.

Harry K

[Harry K]

To play the creationist card: "With God all things are possible"
That makes my head hurt.

Harry K

[Ron O]

But God did not say that he would make it possible, he tasked Noah to
do it. God could have built the ark and laid in all the food and
equipment, but that isn't the way the story goes.

Ron Okimoto

[Mark Isaak]

On 6/9/13 5:18 AM, Ron O wrote:
> On Jun 9, 5:32 am, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) wrote:
>> Ron O <rokim...@cox.net> wrote:

>> [...]

>>> It took Noah and his sons a hundred years to build the ark. They were
>>> either master craftsmen taking a lot of pride in their work or didn't
>>> know what they were doing. The Bible doesn't say how they kept the
>>> ark from rotting out before it was finished.
>>
>> That's one of the strangest parts of the story:
>> god waiting over a hundred years
>> with a destruction of all things living
>> after having decided upon it,
>>
>> Jan
>
> A thousand years is like a day....
>
> The ark was a big structure and Noah only had himself and his three
> sons to build it. Noah was also tasked with housing and feeding all
> the animals. He had to build stalls and cages, feeders and waterers.
> 8 people had to take care of all the feeding and cleaning up of animal
> waste. It would have all taken preparation. God only said that he
> would bring the animals. Noah had to take care of them for a year
> during the flood.

In some traditions, when Noah was days away from finishing the ark, the
devil discovered where the ark was (by getting Noah's wife to get Noah
drunk) and destroyed it. God then rebuilt the whole thing overnight.

[eridanus]

El martes, 4 de junio de 2013 10:39:57 UTC+1, Ron O escribió:
> On Jun 3, 11:36�am, TFB <theflyingbast...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/31/us-usa-religion-ark-idUSBRE...

>
> >
>
> > This can only go well. Having updated the classic Torpedo Ye Arke a bit a few days ago, I could not help thinking about that one part: "I'll even put up some of the money... so long as I get to record the launch of said vessel. And so long as those who say that such a craft would be safe are willing to stay on it while it's being launched. Me, I figure that I'd get some great pics."
>
>
>

> QUOTE:
>
> Scientists have cataloged 1.3 million species of animals, but Ark
>
> Encounter protagonists figure Noah could have brought on just 1,000 to
>
> 2,000 pairs to represent every animal "kind," as the Bible puts it.
>
> END QUOTE:
>
>
>
> It isn't just the species that exist today, but extinct species. The
>
> AIG claims that dinos were on the Ark. Before the dinos there were
>
> the Permian fauna and after the dinos there was the mammalian
>
> megafauna that are long gone.
>
>
>
> I wonder what happened to Woody's estimates of 30,000? I recall that
>
> Woody was limiting himself to family and genera and forgetting about
>
> species. They have to have 7 pairs of all the clean kinds. I wonder
>
> if feathered dinos would have been considered to be clean kinds. T.
>
> rex was supposed to be a vegetarian according to the Ark parkers.
>
>
>
> What should be part of the park is an Ark biosphere. Devote half the
>
> ark to half the number of animals and people to take care of them, or
>
> even all 8 people to take care of them for a year. I'll even let them
>
> have modern ventilation if they can come up with some story of how
>
> Noah ventilated the three levels using only one window, but they have
>
> to pump the bilge and take care of the animal waste the old fashioned
>
> way. They have to survive for a year and all food has to come from
>
> storage.
>
>
>
> It could be the biggest draw at the park for a couple of weeks.
>
>
>
> Ron Okimoto

I am wondering why they take so much pain to show that this story of the
Ark was a natural event. Even to gather all those animals from across
the world would had taken a big size miracle. And to produce so much water
as to flood the whole planet there was also needed another miracle. And to
retire so much water after the flood, it would be needed another miracle.

It seems also like a miracle that some people would believe this story was
a normal but unusual event. How people can believe the bible could be taken
in a literal sense, make me think about two options.

1) they are plain stupid
2) God made the miracle of making them very credulous.

That reminds me of a video I watched from the times of Marie Curies
discovered the radio. Soon, a lot of people was selling beauty creams that
contain radio, and even a mud composed of pitchblenda that was also
radioactive. They were selling as well radioactive filters to treat the
common tap water to get so the benefits of radioactivity. Even they were
selling condoms that it was said they were radioactive.

Then, I inclined myself to believe people are rather idiot, and able to
swallow any idiotic novelty.

Eridanus

[Walter Bushell]

In article
<cbed4806-0d81-478e...@ow4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,

Hold your hand out, Naughty Boy!

[John S. Wilkins]

eridanus <leopoldo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> El martes, 4 de junio de 2013 10:39:57 UTC+1, Ron O escribió:

The answer is that the Ark was actually a TARDIS and was bigger on the
inside. Gopher wood does that, you know.
--
John S. Wilkins, Associate, Philosophy, University of Sydney
http://evolvingthoughts.net
But al be that he was a philosophre,
Yet hadde he but litel gold in cofre

[Father Haskell]

And what was the point? Anyone with a boat and enough
cheese logs and crackers stood just as much chance of
surviving the flood. Use a 100 mile wide asteroid if you want to
wipe out all of creation for whatever unfathomable reason.

[Roger Shrubber]

It was easier to build that way before the damned Greeks invented
their version geometry. In fact while the bible contains some
references to an earlier version of geometry with pi 3.0 Noah
was working with pi 2.0

[J. J. Lodder]

Yes, but then you wouldn't have a goat to eat, afterwards,

Jan

[Ron O]

That version didn't get into the King James version or the Torah.

Ron Okimoto

[Ron O]

I really don't think that the story was supposed to be taken
literally. It is just supposed to be memorable. Good being
recognized, mercy, stupid mistakes a god could make, and promises to
not repeat the mistakes. The flood obviously did not solve the
problem. The animals are a nice touch, but could obviously have been
recreated after the flood, and are part of the story for the same
reason that the story is so popular as toys.

Ron Okimoto

[Ron O]

On Jun 9, 10:02 pm, Roger Shrubber <rog.shrub...@gmail.com> wrote:
> John S. Wilkins wrote:

Whatever version as per John's comment pi was likely a lot larger
inside the ark than outside.

Ron Okimoto

[John S. Wilkins]

Pi was a variable back then.

[Thrinaxodon]

On Jun 10, 12:16 pm, j...@wilkins.id.au (John S. Wilkins) wrote:

> John S. Wilkins, Associate, Philosophy, University of Sydneyhttp://evolvingthoughts.net

> But al be that he was a philosophre,

> Yet hadde he but litel gold in cofrey

But, Pi being a round number in the Babble is still wrong.

--
Thrinaxodon

[Thrinaxodon]

Not so fast! I think the reason why the Hebrews created the story, was
to control the masses, for their own gain. Hey, using religion to
control the masses works, i.e. the Holy Church of Rome.

[Mark Isaak]

One could make a case that it has better biblical support than much of
the other stuff creationists come up with. After all, the Bible does
portray Noah as a drunk, but it does not say a lot about hydroplate theory.

[Father Haskell]

On Jun 10, 5:06 am, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) wrote:

Take your pic of whatever corpse floats by.

[Father Haskell]

No zero, either.

[Malte Runz]

"Ron O" skrev i meddelelsen
news:bd013002-83af-439f...@h13g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...

>
> On Jun 8, 9:26 am, jillery <69jpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

(snip)

> > That gopher wood must have been miraculous stuff.
>
> It didn't survive the flood.

But when the Ark hunters eventually find the Ark, the creation scientists
can clone some of the non-petrified pieces and resurrect the species. If
it's OK with God, of course...

--
Malte Runz

[HHW]

History's greatest priestly scam until Marxism/Leninism.

[HHW]

On Jun 10, 11:24 am, Thrinaxodon <biolo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Could those Hebrews, like you, chew and breath at the same time?

[Malte Runz]

"J. J. Lodder" skrev i meddelelsen
news:1l45n89.16t...@de-ster.xs4all.nl...
>
> Ron O <roki...@cox.net> wrote:

(snip)

> > It took Noah and his sons a hundred years to build the ark. They were
> > either master craftsmen taking a lot of pride in their work or didn't
> > know what they were doing. The Bible doesn't say how they kept the
> > ark from rotting out before it was finished.
>
> That's one of the strangest parts of the story:
> god waiting over a hundred years
> with a destruction of all things living
> after having decided upon it,

Exactly what did God do? He didn't create the water magically, he didn't
make it go away ('it ran back into the oceans, you see'), the animals had to
walk/fly/wiggle to Ark by their own means, and so on. I hear creationist try
to explain everything by natural causes, show that it was plausible. They
want to rid the story of everything supernatural, and approach the whole
thing 'scientificly' (generating so much amusement for many of us). But they
wrote God out of the story it seems.

--
Malte Runz

[Thrinaxodon]

Yes. :-)

--
Thrinaxodon

biol...@gmail.com

[alias Ernest Major]

Marxism is the heroin of the masses?

--
alias Ernest Major

[Mike Painter]

On Mon, 10 Jun 2013 04:29:21 -0700 (PDT), Ron O <roki...@cox.net>
wrote:

>
>> And what was the point?  Anyone with a boat and enough
>> cheese logs  and crackers stood just as much chance of
>> surviving the flood.  Use a 100 mile wide asteroid if you want to
>> wipe out all of creation for whatever unfathomable reason.
>
>I really don't think that the story was supposed to be taken
>literally. It is just supposed to be memorable. Good being
>recognized, mercy, stupid mistakes a god could make, and promises to
>not repeat the mistakes. The flood obviously did not solve the
>problem. The animals are a nice touch, but could obviously have been
>recreated after the flood, and are part of the story for the same
>reason that the story is so popular as toys.

As with the creation myths, had the original redactors of the bible
had meant it to be taken literally they would have included just one
version of the story, done in one version of the language.

[J. J. Lodder]

John S. Wilkins <jo...@wilkins.id.au> wrote:

> Ron O <roki...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 9, 10:02 pm, Roger Shrubber <rog.shrub...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > John S. Wilkins wrote:
> > > > eridanus <leopoldo.perd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >> El martes, 4 de junio de 2013 10:39:57 UTC+1, Ron O escribió:
> > > >>> On Jun 3, 11:36ï¿∏am, TFB <theflyingbast...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >

> > > >>>>http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/31/us-usa-religion-ark-idUSBR..

It still is, if you want to.

d/d\pi \sin(\pi x) = x \cos (\pi x)
(after Fourier)

It seems to have infuriated
his real mathematician cntemporaries,
but there is of course nothing wrong with it,

Jan

[Walter Bushell]

In article <1l4a3l4.14dpvbr6l8ba9N%jo...@wilkins.id.au>,

Not only that by pie was usually more valuable then.

[J. J. Lodder]

Aground after having floated for a year in the waters?

No thanks,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Ron O <roki...@cox.net> wrote:

> On Jun 9, 9:18 pm, Father Haskell <fatherhask...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 9, 8:18 am, Ron O <rokim...@cox.net> wrote:
> > > On Jun 9, 5:32 am, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) wrote:
> > > > Ron O <rokim...@cox.net> wrote:
> > > > > On Jun 3, 10:57 pm, Harry K <turn...@q.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Jun 3, 4:18 pm, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > In article

> > > > > > > <5ee1e79e-ef60-431c-a81d-3ecc37726...@s2g2000pbz.googlegroups.co,

> > > > > > > Harry K <turn...@q.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Jun 3, 9:36 am, TFB <theflyingbast...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/31/us-usa-relidUSBR.

> >
> > > > > > > > > This can only go well. Having updated the classic Torpedo
> > > > > > > > > Ye Arke a bit a few days ago, I could not help thinking
> > > > > > > > > about that one part: "I'll even put up some of the
> > > > > > > > > money... so long as I get to record the launch of said
> > > > > > > > > vessel. And so long as those who say that such a craft
> > > > > > > > > would be safe are willing to stay on it while it's being
> > > > > > > > > launched. Me, I figure that I'd get some great pics."
> >
> > > > > > > > Just be sure they don't cheat, they are "Christians" ya
> > > > > > > > know. No use of iron of any kind, shape or purpose, all wood
> > > > > > > > constructions.
>

> > > > > > > Can they use bronze?

> >
> > > > > > If they can hand forge them. I'd like to seethem put up a
> > > > > > display of hand hewing timbers using the techniques and tools of
> > > > > > that age.
> >

> > > > > It took Noah and his sons a hundred years to build the ark. They were
> > > > > either master craftsmen taking a lot of pride in their work or didn't
> > > > > know what they were doing. The Bible doesn't say how they kept the
> > > > > ark from rotting out before it was finished.
> >
> > > > That's one of the strangest parts of the story:
> > > > god waiting over a hundred years
> > > > with a destruction of all things living
> > > > after having decided upon it,
> >

> > > A thousand years is like a day....
> >
> > > The ark was a big structure and Noah only had himself and his three
> > > sons to build it. Noah was also tasked with housing and feeding all
> > > the animals. He had to build stalls and cages, feeders and waterers.
> > > 8 people had to take care of all the feeding and cleaning up of animal
> > > waste. It would have all taken preparation. God only said that he
> > > would bring the animals. Noah had to take care of them for a year
> > > during the flood.
> >

> > And what was the point? Anyone with a boat and enough
> > cheese logs and crackers stood just as much chance of
> > surviving the flood. Use a 100 mile wide asteroid if you want to
> > wipe out all of creation for whatever unfathomable reason.
>
> I really don't think that the story was supposed to be taken
> literally. It is just supposed to be memorable.

It was already memorable long before those shepherds heard of it,
and included it in their storybook to prove to their overlords
that they were civilised people too.

> Good being
> recognized, mercy, stupid mistakes a god could make, and promises to
> not repeat the mistakes. The flood obviously did not solve the
> problem.

Obviously the flood came first,
the problem afterwards.
The intro is remarkably short.

> The animals are a nice touch, but could obviously have been
> recreated after the flood, and are part of the story for the same
> reason that the story is so popular as toys.

I even saw an ark toy with an onboard aquarium to put the fish in,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Except as the villain,

Jan

[chris thompson]

Miraculously, the goat would have been on a log all that time, with
some lemons on top of it. Goat ceviche!

Chris

[drose...@yahoo.com]

On Saturday, June 8, 2013 1:00:06 AM UTC-4, Father Haskell wrote:
> On Jun 5, 7:54 pm, jillery <69jpi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 5 Jun 2013 16:30:16 -0700 (PDT), chris thompson
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > <chris.linthomp...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> > >On Monday, June 3, 2013 11:57:11 PM UTC-4, Harry K wrote:
>
> > >> On Jun 3, 4:18 pm, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >> > In article
>
> >
>

> > >> > <5ee1e79e-ef60-431c-a81d-3ecc37726...@s2g2000pbz.googlegroups.com>,

>
> >
>
> > >> > Harry K <turn...@q.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >> > > On Jun 3, 9:36 am, TFB <theflyingbast...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
>

> > >> > > >http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/31/us-usa-religion-ark-idUSBRE...

>
> >
>
> > >> > > > This can only go well. Having updated the classic Torpedo Ye Arke a bit a
>
> >
>
> > >> > > > few days ago, I could not help thinking about that one part: "I'll even put
>
> >
>
> > >> > > > up some of the money... so long as I get to record the launch of said
>
> >
>
> > >> > > > vessel. And so long as those who say that such a craft would be safe are
>
> >
>
> > >> > > > willing to stay on it while it's being launched. Me, I figure that I'd get
>
> >
>
> > >> > > > some great pics."
>
> >
>
> > >> > > Just be sure they don't cheat, they are "Christians" ya know. No use
>
> >
>
> > >> > > of iron of any kind, shape or purpose, all wood constructions.
>
> >
>
> > >> > > Harry K
>
> >
>
> > >> > Can they use bronze?
>
> >
>
> > >> > --
>
> >
>
> > >> > Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
>
> >
>
> > >> > me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
>
> >
>

> > >> If they can hand forge them.  I'd like to see them put up a display of

>
> >
>
> > >> hand hewing timbers using the techniques and tools of that age.
>
> >
>
> > >> Harry K
>
> >
>

> > >IIRC they were trying to hire Amish woodworkers and blacksmiths, since they figured they were the closest artisans around today, who might have been around at the time of Ye Olde Arke. Not that I'm defending them (look up my posting history) but you have give them a little credit. Not enough to pass the class, but a little.
>
> >
>
> > It might be an interesting to compare the techniques of the Amish with
>
> > those known to be used in the alleged time and place of Noah.
>
>
>
> The tools from the Amish blacksmiths would be first rate.
>
> Better than the rocks and scrapers Noah used.
Noah used Power tools. Higher Power tools.

[drose...@yahoo.com]

On Sunday, June 9, 2013 1:10:25 PM UTC-4, eridanus wrote:

>
> That reminds me of a video I watched from the times of Marie Curies
>
> discovered the radio. Soon, a lot of people was selling beauty creams that
>
> contain radio, and even a mud composed of pitchblenda that was also
>
> radioactive. They were selling as well radioactive filters to treat the
>
> common tap water to get so the benefits of radioactivity. Even they were
>
> selling condoms that it was said they were radioactive.

People, not even scientists, knew the dangers of radioactivity at that time. The scientists of the time who died of long terms effects from radioactivity are referred to as "the radioactivity martyrs."

You are not going to call Mary Curie stupid, I hope. Mary Curie herself died of radiation-related syndromes. She was smart enough to have figured it out later in life when it was too late. However, she continued to work with xrays to help wounded soldiers in the military. At that point, it became heroism instead of stupidity.

Initial data and experiments on radioactivity were most positive with respect to health. Experiments showed:
1) Radioactivity kills pathogens without immediately killing the host.
2) Radioactivity can burn away tumors.
3) Many of the long term effects of radioactivity can occur naturally without radioactivity.

So some people tried to cash in on a new discovery, based on initial studies. Maybe they should have investigated health effects before selling it. That is either "negligent" or maybe "evil". However, it is not "stupid".

Not all mistakes show the mistaker to be stupid. Your analogy is ill-posed. I am not excusing the Creationidiots.

I would insist that those eight people go into the hold before the greater than 30 million species of animals are crammed into the boat.

[plainolamerican]

On Jun 10, 11:24�am, Thrinaxodon <biolo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Noah's Ark
---
jewish myth to ignore.

[Harry K]

Instantly rechargeable with a confession and burnt sacrifice.

Harry K

[Harry K]

It's not nice to mention that genesis is a plagiarism.

Harry K

[Father Haskell]

Carbide or HSS?

[TimR]

In the attempt to make flood events scientifically plausible, has anyone addressed the rainbow?

According to the text the rainbow didn't exist before the flood, but was set in the sky as a sign afterwards.

Would some scientific constant need to be adjusted for this to occur? Snell's law, speed of light in a medium maybe?

[eridanus]

Marie Curie and Pierre were aware of the dangers of radioactivity. Pierre
experimented with some fishes and they were dying because of a source of
radioactivity. Marie told him not to write about that, or their money help
for their studies would dry out.

I never mentioned the word stupid. People was prone to accept any novelty
with a technological flavor.

Eridanus

[Thrinaxodon]

On Jun 11, 11:26 am, drosen0...@yahoo.com wrote:

Noah also had a motor, and actually worked a ship.

--
Thrinaxodon

[Mark Isaak]

On 6/13/13 5:23 AM, TimR wrote:
> In the attempt to make flood events scientifically plausible, has
> anyone addressed the rainbow?
>
> According to the text the rainbow didn't exist before the flood,
> but was set in the sky as a sign afterwards.

That's not what any of my translations say. They say that God sent a
rainbow at the end of the deluge, and that he declared it to be a sign
of a new covenant, but they do not say that it was the first rainbow. I
have heard some Christians claim that it was the first rainbow, but they
have essentially no scriptural authority for such a claim (and not much
tradition for it, either, that I have noticed).

Incidentally, native South Americans consider rainbows to be a bad omen
and will go out of their way to avoid looking upon one. In Australia,
rainbows are associated with the Rainbow Serpent, who often is the
*cause* of a deluge.

[TimR]

On Thursday, June 13, 2013 12:47:56 PM UTC-4, Mark Isaak wrote:
> On 6/13/13 5:23 AM, TimR wrote:
>
> > In the attempt to make flood events scientifically plausible, has
>
> > anyone addressed the rainbow?
>
> >
>
> > According to the text the rainbow didn't exist before the flood,
>
> > but was set in the sky as a sign afterwards.
>
>
>
> That's not what any of my translations say. They say that God sent a
>
> rainbow at the end of the deluge, and that he declared it to be a sign
>
> of a new covenant, but they do not say that it was the first rainbow.

Ah. It turns out you are correct. I went to that most trustworthy (sic) source, Answers-in-Genesis, and it asserts that this being the first mention of God setting a bow in the clouds doesn't rule out having done it before.

I have talked with many fundagelics who believe the flood brought the first rain AND the first rainbow, but as you point out the text doesn't support that unequivocally.

[August Rode]

On Thursday, June 13, 2013 12:47:56 PM UTC-4, Mark Isaak wrote:

> On 6/13/13 5:23 AM, TimR wrote:
>
> > In the attempt to make flood events scientifically plausible, has
> > anyone addressed the rainbow?
> >
> > According to the text the rainbow didn't exist before the flood,
> > but was set in the sky as a sign afterwards.
>
> That's not what any of my translations say. They say that God sent a
> rainbow at the end of the deluge, and that he declared it to be a sign
> of a new covenant, but they do not say that it was the first rainbow.

I'll point out that a rainbow is not even really a thing in the same way that a cloud is a thing. Rather, it's an optical effect. A rainbow requires three things: water drops or vapor, directional light, and an observer situated directly between the water and the light. If any of these things is missing, there is no rainbow. The rainbow isn't out there among the clouds. The fact that a rainbow moves with the observer that sees it indicates that it's actually within the eyes/brain of that observer.

[TimR]

Ooops, I conceded too soon. The OTHER premier creationist site, Institute for Creation Research, has a different opinion.
Quoting: "Genesis 9:13
9:13 my bow. The rainbow, requiring small water droplets in the air, could not form in the pre-diluvian world, where the high vapor canopy precluded rain (Genesis 2:5). After the Flood, the very fact that rainfall is now possible makes a worldwide rainstorm impossible, and the rainbow “in the cloud” thereby becomes a perpetual reminder of God’s grace, even in judgment."

[eridanus]

i like this word, "fundagelics". I appropriate myself to be used from time
to time; as long as I could recall it.

Eridanus