U of AL biologist kills 3
bpuharic
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
All-seeing-I
Cause: Evolution
Ron O
Likely insanity. That should worry you, but you are likely too
mentally incompetent to work through the implications.
Ron Okimoto
r norman
wrote:
We had a tenure case where I was frightened enough to report my
concerns about the individual denied tenure to campus security. I
actually sometimes mentally planned what I might do if he stormed into
one of my classes. It was not at all a pleasant experience. Other
faculty report similar feelings about some failed students. All sorts
of crazy things happen nowadays on college campuses.
Paul J Gans
>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
Yup. Academic life is assumed by so many non-academics to
be stress free...
--
--- Paul J. Gans
Paul J Gans
>Cause: Evolution
Sorry fella, that goes beyond the pale. People DIED in this
incident. It is not a joke.
James Beck
Yes. Evolution. All the bad and all the good. Insanity and brilliance,
too.
I'm glad to see him finally agree. His concession is the first step
out of the cave.
SortingItOut
For us ignorant ones...is denial of tenure a one-time event (at least
at a given university), or can you apply repeatedly?
John Wilkins
<gan...@panix.com> wrote:
Academic politics are so vicious because the stakes are so low.
bpuharic
when i was an undergrad at pitt, an asst. prof of math took a bridge
when he was denied tenure. never forgot that...
Mike Dworetsky
One-off. The person's current contract will expire and not be renewed. And
you can imagine how that looks on applications for academic posts elsewhere.
--
Mike Dworetsky
(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)
Boikat
chris thompson
Most places, though, do have an appeals process. There were two
faculty members in my department who were not reappointed a year ago.
Both appealed and both were reappointed on a 1 year contract, after
which they will be able to apply for tenure. And if they are denied
tenure they can appeal that also (with a much. much lower chance of
success).
It looks bad if someplace hires you, and then lets you go once they
really get to know you. This, however, ignores the current reality in
academia, where full-time permanent faculty are more and more becoming
the exception, and part-time hourly faculty are teaching more and more
of the courses. About 50% of the courses offered by City University of
New York are taught by adjunct faculty, and I understand the
percentage is even higher elsewhere.
Chris
Will in New Haven
One of the people killed was a cell biology professor I talk to
several times a year about textbook choice. Several other people in
that room were acquaintances of mine. Another victory for "gun-free"
zones.
--
Will in New Haven
Will in New Haven
who, having been denied tenure in one place, went on to careers
elsewhere. One professor I talk to every few months was denied tenure
at his first job, where I had also talked to him. Two years later he
turned up teaching immunology elsewhere and has since gotten tenure.
It's a big setback but not necessarily the end of the road.
marks...@yahoo.com
This should make the Christians very happy. The woman took her
guidance from God , who demonstrates the reality of his teaching. If
something doesnt do what you want, or is in the way of your plans then
KILL IT, kill it and its family, kill everything Then Take what you
want. It is the way that God works.
Thank you All-seeing-I and bpuharic for demonstrating Christian
values.
Why didnt you add that the athiestic heathens would burn in hell for
eternity as Gods judgement. ?
My disgust is bountiful.
bpuharic
>On Feb 12, 7:46�pm, All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 12, 7:10�pm, bpuharic <w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> > guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>>
>> >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>>
>> > A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
>> > University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
>> > and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>>
>> > Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
>> > reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>>
>> Cause: �Evolution
>
>This should make the Christians very happy. The woman took her
>guidance from God , who demonstrates the reality of his teaching. If
>something doesnt do what you want, or is in the way of your plans then
>KILL IT, kill it and its family, kill everything Then Take what you
>want. It is the way that God works.
>
>Thank you All-seeing-I and bpuharic for demonstrating Christian
>values
if only i were a christian...
>
>Why didnt you add that the athiestic heathens would burn in hell for
>eternity as Gods judgement. ?
>
>My disgust is bountiful.
i guess the sense of sarcasm didn't carry through...
Mike Dworetsky
Hadn't realised it was getting that bad in the US.
Mike Dworetsky
I'm glad for your colleague, that things turned out OK. As you say, it's a
big setback and I suppose this is what got to her. It can be a very
emotional time for the unsuccessful candidate, but as you say many of them
are basically sound and may be able to get in somewhere else, except for
this new business mentioned elsethread of denying tenure to a majority of
probationary staff.
All-seeing-I
I was not joking.
RAM
Which only demonstrates you are an abject fool who doesn't understand
evolution.
Boikat
No, you just a troll and a fucking asshole.
Boikat
raven1
You: Idiot.
30 days back in the killfile for you.
raven1
<bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>On Feb 12, 8:10�pm, bpuharic <w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>>
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>>
>> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
>> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
>> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>>
>> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
>> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>
>One of the people killed was a cell biology professor I talk to
>several times a year about textbook choice. Several other people in
>that room were acquaintances of mine.
That's horrible, Will, so sorry to hear it.
Will in New Haven
Yes, evolution did make our species competitive and aggressive and,
sometimes, murderous. The ToA didn't do that, as one can see from
human history long before Darwin wrote a word. But _evolution_ did it.
It produced the species that could write masterpieces, work tirelessly
to aid strangers and kill innocent people. Evolution made us what we
are.
Thank you for your unusually perceptive, although perhaps too brief,
acknowledgment of the facts.
Walter Bushell
<70a4146a-dfa0-4baf...@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
Will in New Haven <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>
> One of the people killed was a cell biology professor I talk to
> several times a year about textbook choice.
Not anymore you don't. Unless you have methods I don't know about. :(
--
A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard.
All-seeing-I
THAT.... would be you.
All-seeing-I
>
> - Show quoted text -
The ToE did not do that directly. But that entire "way of thinking"
sure has facilitated behaviors that are not what society wants in
general.
Walter Bushell
Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:
Yes, you cannot eat your brain until you have tenure.
Friar Broccoli
> On Feb 12, 9:27�pm, Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
> > >On Feb 12, 7:10�pm, bpuharic <w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > >> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>
> > >>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>
> > >> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
> > >> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
> > >> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>
> > >> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
> > >> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
.
> > >Cause: �Evolution
.
> > Sorry fella, that goes beyond the pale. �People DIED in this
> > incident. �It is not a joke.
.
> I was not joking.
OK then, could you tell me if the Concordia University massacre was
caused by
engineering or evolution?
For details see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concordia_University_massacre
Boikat
Projection. You're also a patheric moron.
Boikat
bpuharic
<ap...@email.com> wrote:
>
>The ToE did not do that directly. But that entire "way of thinking"
>sure has facilitated behaviors that are not what society wants in
>general.
in your opinion. but your 'wants' are strongly correlated with the
types of religious beliefs seen in al qaida and saudi arabia
the historian timothy ferris has made the claim that scientific
thinking was responsible for the development of freedom in the west
and that religiuos beliefs inhibited the enlightenment.
oh well, creationists, back to the lying board
>
Desertphile
wrote:
> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>
> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>
> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
No doubt she is an "intelligent design" Creationist. Someone
should alert Ben Stein.
--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz
chris thompson
It isn't that bad- it's worse.
When the economy tanks, enrollment at CUNY skyrockets. All those
people who would have been happy to take a (perfectly good, stable,
useful and important) job at UPS or FedEx are now looking for job
training.
We have 22 000 FTE's (full-time equivalents) crammed into a building
designed for 9000 students. Obviously, an FTE does not equal a single
student all the time. Most of our students work full-time, are
parents, or both. Most need remedial classes (and that's another issue
we should not explore). So a LOT of those FTEs actually equal 2, 3, or
even 4 students occupying seats. Our budget- and the President's and
Vice-Presidents' and Deans' salaries, believe it or not- are tied to
our FTEs. But the number of full-time professorial and lecturer lines
is dependent on union negotiations with the state and city of New
York. I am sure you can see where that leads.
The administration routinely admits 27 students into labs (badly)
designed to hold 24, using the same rationale as airline overbooking.
There is currently a proposal at my campus to increase that to 30
students. Can you imagine a 30-student laboratory session? We don't
even have TA's here! We are running labs almost around the clock. We
have classes that meet on Friday evening for 3 hours, and Saturday
morning for 3 hours. It's unbelievable.
Chris
chris thompson
> In article
> <70a4146a-dfa0-4baf-973f-1473310fe...@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
> �Will in New Haven <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > One of the people killed was a cell biology professor I talk to
> > several times a year about textbook choice.
>
> Not anymore you don't. Unless you have methods I don't know about. :(
>
Walter, that's beneath you.
Chris
James Beck
<bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>On Feb 12, 8:10�pm, bpuharic <w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>>
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>>
>> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
>> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
>> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>>
>> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
>> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>
>One of the people killed was a cell biology professor I talk to
>several times a year about textbook choice. Several other people in
>that room were acquaintances of mine. Another victory for "gun-free"
>zones.
I am sorry for your loss. My sympathies go out to their families and
other friends, as well.
Ron Dean
> On Feb 12, 7:46 pm, All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 12, 7:10 pm, bpuharic <w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>>> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
>>> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
>>> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>>> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
>>> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>> Cause: Evolution
>
> This should make the Christians very happy.
>
>
The woman took her
> guidance from God , who demonstrates the reality of his teaching. If
> something doesnt do what you want, or is in the way of your plans then
> KILL IT, kill it and its family, kill everything Then Take what you
> want. It is the way that God works.
>
>
> Thank you All-seeing-I and bpuharic for demonstrating Christian
> values.
>
>
> Why didnt you add that the athiestic heathens would burn in hell for
> eternity as Gods judgement. ?
>
>
> My disgust is bountiful.
>
You're right. It's disgusting
UC
> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>
> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>
> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
Academics are very, very, very weird.
Paul J Gans
>On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:52:26 -0800 (PST), Ron O <roki...@cox.net>
>wrote:
>>On Feb 12, 7:46 pm, All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
>>> Cause: Evolution
>>
>>Likely insanity. That should worry you, but you are likely too
>>mentally incompetent to work through the implications.
>We had a tenure case where I was frightened enough to report my
>concerns about the individual denied tenure to campus security. I
>actually sometimes mentally planned what I might do if he stormed into
>one of my classes. It was not at all a pleasant experience. Other
>faculty report similar feelings about some failed students. All sorts
>of crazy things happen nowadays on college campuses.
Agreed. Tenure decisions affect a person's life in a very
serious way. In some cases they mean the end of full-time
employment in academia -- something a person may well have
worked for all their previous life.
I am not going to speculate on this particular case, but
I too have seen tenure refusals that made me fairly antsy.
As for students who have failed courses, that is also a cause for
serious concern and has been for years. There is a serious current
movement in the US to allow students to bring loaded guns onto
campus and into classes....
No smiley.
Paul J Gans
>On Feb 12, 7:10 pm, bpuharic <w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>>
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>>
>> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
>> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
>> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>>
>> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
>> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>For us ignorant ones...is denial of tenure a one-time event (at least
>at a given university), or can you apply repeatedly?
[This is probably answered below further down the thread, but
I've not gotten that far yet.]
Once, at any given place. If you are denied tenure at Yale or
Harvard, you *might* gain a place at a smaller school somewhere.
But for many, being turned down for tenure is the end of any
chance of a permanent job at a research university.
Jamie Jeans
> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:10:46 -0500, bpuharic <wf...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>>
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>>
>> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
>> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
>> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>>
>> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
>> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>
> No doubt she is an "intelligent design" Creationist. Someone
> should alert Ben Stein.
>
was ridiculous. Perhaps she became an intelligent design advocate, I
doubt it, though. Do you know her?
>
Paul J Gans
>In article <hl55hl$faf$8...@reader2.panix.com>, Paul J Gans
><gan...@panix.com> wrote:
>> bpuharic <wf...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>>
>> >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>>
>> >A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
>> >University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
>> >and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>>
>> >Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
>> >reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>>
>> Yup. Academic life is assumed by so many non-academics to
>> be stress free...
>Academic politics are so vicious because the stakes are so low.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayre's_Law
Yeah. But in reality in tenure cases the stakes are very very high.
Paul J Gans
>On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 03:16:05 +0000 (UTC), Paul J Gans
><gan...@panix.com> wrote:
>>bpuharic <wf...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>>
>>>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>>
>>>A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
>>>University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
>>>and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>>
>>>Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
>>>reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>>
>>Yup. Academic life is assumed by so many non-academics to
>>be stress free...
>when i was an undergrad at pitt, an asst. prof of math took a bridge
>when he was denied tenure. never forgot that...
Oh yes. I've been involved in one or two rough ones myself.
It is worse than being fired from a job. One of the things that
applies to tenure, especially in smaller departments, is that it
is like a marriage that cannot be divorced. You are going to
have to live and work with that person for the next 30 years or
so, give or take. If they are nasty and disruptive, it can be
a real challenge to be impartial.
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by All-seeing-I
<ap...@email.com>:
>The ToE did not do that directly. But that entire "way of thinking"
>sure has facilitated behaviors that are not what society wants in
>general.
You mean like "Kill them all. God will know His own."?
That sort of "way of thinking"?
--
Bob C.
"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
- McNameless
Frank J
> On Feb 12, 7:10�pm, bpuharic <w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>
> >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>
> > A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
> > University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
> > and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>
> > Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
> > reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>
> Cause: �Evolution
I see 3 stars and "2 users." Nashton, were you the one who gave him
the 5 stars?
Will in New Haven
You mean like burning people for being called witches. You mean like
murdering people who believe in different imaginary beings than you
do. You mean like the Thirty Years War, every Jihad, the Crusades.
Also, and most importantly, the ToE is an accurate description of how
the natural world works. Even IF it had bad social consequences, it
would still be an accurate description of the natural world. Are you
suggesting that there be a social policy of lying to people to control
them?
John Wilkins
<plati...@pants.btinternet.com> wrote:
> chris thompson wrote:
> > On Feb 13, 2:35 am, "Mike Dworetsky"
> > <platinum...@pants.btinternet.com> wrote:
> >> SortingItOut wrote:
> >>> On Feb 12, 7:10 pm, bpuharic <w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
> >>
> >>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
> >>
> >>>> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
> >>>> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
> >>>> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
> >>
> >>>> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
> >>>> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
> >>
> >>> For us ignorant ones...is denial of tenure a one-time event (at
> >>> least at a given university), or can you apply repeatedly?
> >>
> >> One-off. The person's current contract will expire and not be
> >> renewed. And you can imagine how that looks on applications for
> >> academic posts elsewhere.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mike Dworetsky
> >>
> >> (Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)
> >
> > Most places, though, do have an appeals process. There were two
> > faculty members in my department who were not reappointed a year ago.
> > Both appealed and both were reappointed on a 1 year contract, after
> > which they will be able to apply for tenure. And if they are denied
> > tenure they can appeal that also (with a much. much lower chance of
> > success).
> >
> > It looks bad if someplace hires you, and then lets you go once they
> > really get to know you. This, however, ignores the current reality in
> > academia, where full-time permanent faculty are more and more becoming
> > the exception, and part-time hourly faculty are teaching more and more
> > of the courses. About 50% of the courses offered by City University of
> > New York are taught by adjunct faculty, and I understand the
> > percentage is even higher elsewhere.
>
> Hadn't realised it was getting that bad in the US.
It's pretty bad here too. I am lucky to have a job that is tenurable.
So far as I can tell, I am the second last person to get such a job
(the other person also got her job at the same institution) in my field
- philosophy - in Australia for at least another two years. Most
teaching is done by what Americans call adjunct faculty (i.e.,
sessional teachers), for at least half of the subjects at every
university I know in Australia. One friend of mine is doing a full time
teaching load, designing subjects, teaching anatomy to pre-meds,
because the university has no anatomists. He hasn't even finished his
PhD, which has been on hold for two years now. There are no plans to
give him a tenured position.
Even most of the full professors (in Australia, to be a Professor is to
have reached the pinnacle of academic levels) I know are funded on
seven year grants.
r norman
That is true for a research university. But there are many campuses
with a mission more balanced between teaching and research. If you
were a truly outstanding teacher in a research institution (which
doesn't count for much there) and have a modest research program
(which isn't good enough there), there are institutions that will
consider you. Or at least, there were before the financial crunch
when hiring at anything beyond the lowest salary level was still
possible.
So there is a second chance. But not a third.
Paul J Gans
>SortingItOut wrote:
>> On Feb 12, 7:10 pm, bpuharic <w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>>>
>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>>>
>>> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
>>> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
>>> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>>>
>>> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
>>> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>>
>> For us ignorant ones...is denial of tenure a one-time event (at least
>> at a given university), or can you apply repeatedly?
>One-off. The person's current contract will expire and not be renewed. And
>you can imagine how that looks on applications for academic posts elsewhere.
Believe me, they understand "denied tenure". There are so
many applicants for each job that most places would have felt
that there is no reason to even look at her.
Of course, if guilty, she no longer has to worry about that.
Paul J Gans
>> SortingItOut wrote:
>> > On Feb 12, 7:10 pm, bpuharic <w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>>
>> >>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>>
>> >> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
>> >> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
>> >> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>>
>> >> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
>> >> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>>
>> > For us ignorant ones...is denial of tenure a one-time event (at least
>> > at a given university), or can you apply repeatedly?
>>
>> One-off. The person's current contract will expire and not be renewed. And
>> you can imagine how that looks on applications for academic posts elsewhere.
>>
>who, having been denied tenure in one place, went on to careers
>elsewhere. One professor I talk to every few months was denied tenure
>at his first job, where I had also talked to him. Two years later he
>turned up teaching immunology elsewhere and has since gotten tenure.
>It's a big setback but not necessarily the end of the road.
True, but not terribly common.
John Wilkins
<gan...@panix.com> wrote:
She has automatically qualified for another kind of tenure.
Paul J Gans
>chris thompson wrote:
>> On Feb 13, 2:35 am, "Mike Dworetsky"
>>> SortingItOut wrote:
>>>> On Feb 12, 7:10 pm, bpuharic <w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>>>
>>>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>>>
>>>>> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
>>>>> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
>>>>> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>>>
>>>>> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
>>>>> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>>>
>>>> For us ignorant ones...is denial of tenure a one-time event (at
>>>> least at a given university), or can you apply repeatedly?
>>>
>>> One-off. The person's current contract will expire and not be
>>> renewed. And you can imagine how that looks on applications for
>>> academic posts elsewhere.
>>>
>>> Mike Dworetsky
>>>
>>> (Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)
>>
>> Most places, though, do have an appeals process. There were two
>> faculty members in my department who were not reappointed a year ago.
>> Both appealed and both were reappointed on a 1 year contract, after
>> which they will be able to apply for tenure. And if they are denied
>> tenure they can appeal that also (with a much. much lower chance of
>> success).
>>
>> It looks bad if someplace hires you, and then lets you go once they
>> really get to know you. This, however, ignores the current reality in
>> academia, where full-time permanent faculty are more and more becoming
>> the exception, and part-time hourly faculty are teaching more and more
>> of the courses. About 50% of the courses offered by City University of
>> New York are taught by adjunct faculty, and I understand the
>> percentage is even higher elsewhere.
>Hadn't realised it was getting that bad in the US.
It is in fact worse. There is a changed climate out there. Schools
want the freedom to increase or decrease the size of departments
as the choices of students change over time. It is hard to do
this with a tenured faculty.
For instance, during the 60s and 70s, the most popular major in
Arts and Sciences at my school was Politics. By the 90s that
department had dwindled in popularity. The faculty size could
not change to match.
Further: It seems that there are lots of folks willing to teach.
But there are very few really good researchers. So a "research
university" tends to restrict tenure to good researchers, which
results in undergraduate courses being taught by non-tenure track
faculty.
Add to this the desire of those in charge of Universities to
run their places like a giant factory and you have the recipe
for serious change in the structure of US universities.
By 2030 I figure tenure will be on the way out and colleges and
universities will be run top down[1] like public grade schools.
And they will be just as effective educationally as public schools.
[1] At the present time, faculties still have a lot of power over
the curriculum and who teaches what. That is not true in our grade
schools where the teachers basically do what they are told.
Paul J Gans
>On Feb 12, 9:27 pm, Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:
>> All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
>> >On Feb 12, 7:10 pm, bpuharic <w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>>
>> >>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>>
>> >> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
>> >> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
>> >> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>>
>> >> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
>> >> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>>
>> Sorry fella, that goes beyond the pale. People DIED in this
>> incident. It is not a joke.
>>
>> --- Paul J. Gans
>I was not joking.
If you want to play on that level, I'll remind you that
the Iranian Shiites and the Taliban Sunni are also anti-
evolution.
Paul J Gans
>On Feb 13, 11:23 am, All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 12, 9:27 pm, Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
>> > >On Feb 12, 7:10 pm, bpuharic <w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> > >> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>>
>> > >>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>>
>> > >> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
>> > >> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
>> > >> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>>
>> > >> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
>> > >> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>> > >Cause: Evolution
>>
>> > Sorry fella, that goes beyond the pale. People DIED in this
>> > incident. It is not a joke.
>>
>> > --
>> > --- Paul J. Gans
>>
>> I was not joking.
>No, you just a troll and a fucking asshole.
I disagree. He's just an evil asshole. And he's giving
trolls a bad name.
Paul J Gans
>> bpuharic <wf...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>>
>> >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>>
>> >A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
>> >University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
>> >and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>>
>> >Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
>> >reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>>
>> Yup. Academic life is assumed by so many non-academics to
>> be stress free...
>Yes, you cannot eat your brain until you have tenure.
And these days, perhaps not even then...
UC
I think tenure should be done away with
All-Seeing-I
>
> - Show quoted text -
It is not MY fault you cannot see the other issues within a given
issue like this one.
Friar Broccoli
> On Feb 13, 7:05�pm, Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Boikat <boi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > >On Feb 13, 11:23�am, All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
> > >> On Feb 12, 9:27�pm, Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:
>
> > >> > All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
> > >> > >On Feb 12, 7:10�pm, bpuharic <w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > >> > >> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>
> > >> > >>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>
> > >> > >> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
> > >> > >> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
> > >> > >> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>
> > >> > >> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
> > >> > >> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
> > >> > >Cause: �Evolution
>
> > >> > Sorry fella, that goes beyond the pale. �People DIED in this
> > >> > incident. �It is not a joke.
>
> > >> > --
> > >> > � �--- Paul J. Gans
>
> > >> I was not joking.
> > >No, you just a troll and a fucking asshole.
>
> > I disagree. �He's just an evil asshole. �And he's giving
> > trolls a bad name.
>
.
>
> It is not MY fault you cannot see the other issues within a given
> issue like this one.
You're right about that.
Ee's worked ard to insure he cannot see what ain't there.
William Morse
> bpuharic <wf...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>
>> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
>> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
>> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>
>> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
>> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>
> be stress free...
>
seemed like a doomsday machine reaction, which is rare in females,
because they can usually find another choice even when initially
rejected. This would go along with your discussion of the stress
associated with tenure rejection, especially the potential aspect of
that being the end to an academic career. But then I noticed that she
had earlier killed her brother. So maybe she is just a nutcase.
William Morse
> On Feb 12, 8:10 pm, bpuharic <w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>>
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>>
>> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
>> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
>> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>>
>> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
>> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>
> several times a year about textbook choice. Several other people in
> that room were acquaintances of mine. Another victory for "gun-free"
> zones.
My condolences. I have already made a comment on this story in the
dispassionate mode of seeing it as a data point. But to those involved,
and to those who knew them, it is a tragedy.
And if hand gun ownership in the US were as effectively controlled as it
is in Japan, the tragedy would most likely not have happened.
> --
> Will in New Haven
>
John Wilkins
<wdNOSP...@verizon.net> wrote:
Or maybe she was so affected by both the trauma of the earlier event,
and the fact that she got away without sanction, that she was already
predisposed to use violence when frustrated. People can learn a deep
behaviour from trauma.
RAM
Then you do not understand the role of tenure.
SkyEyes
> As for students who have failed courses, that is also a cause for
> serious concern and has been for years. �There is a serious current
> movement in the US to allow students to bring loaded guns onto
> campus and into classes....
Indeed. It's beeing considered at the university where I work.
Aside from un-tenured professors and students who fail a critical
class, who wants to give drunken frat boys ready, legal access to
guns?
It's a recipe for disaster.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
skyeyes nine at cox dot net
el cid
> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:47:09 +0000 (UTC), Paul J Gans
>
>
>
>
>
> <gan...@panix.com> wrote:
> >SortingItOut <eri...@home.com> wrote:
> >>> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>
> >>>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>
> >>> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
> >>> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
> >>> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>
> >>> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
> >>> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>
> >>For us ignorant ones...is denial of tenure a one-time event (at least
> >>at a given university), or can you apply repeatedly?
>
> >[This is probably answered below further down the thread, but
> >I've not gotten that far yet.]
>
> >Harvard, you *might* gain a place at a smaller school somewhere.
> >But for many, being turned down for tenure is the end of any
> >chance of a permanent job at a research university.
>
> with a mission more balanced between teaching and research. 锟絀f you
> were a truly outstanding teacher in a research institution (which
> doesn't count for much there) and have a modest research program
> (which isn't good enough there), there are institutions that will
> when hiring at anything beyond the lowest salary level was still
> possible.
>
At many of the more prestigious schools, the writing will
be on the wall well ahead of any decisions on tenure. If
one is not likely to get tenure, a sensible person will
know from key allies they have made within their department.
Not making such allies is its own signature, even if it
isn't an absolute a statement of quality. But working and
playing well with others is part of the equation, for
good or for bad. (you can be a major jerk/jerkess if
you are an incredible rainmaker, but that's rare).
From a prestigious institution, you have options to
jump ship to a solid A- institution or even a separate
A level university if you do so before actual rejection
of tenure is immanent.
There's also an interesting sub-tier to all this in
the University of California system (and elsewhere
I expect) of the 'in residence' faculty member. In
this case, one can receive tenure but not be guaranteed
salary. There are only so many Full Time Equivalents
(FTEs) assigned within a department which are paid
by the state but more appointments provided you fund
yourself through grants. Being offered such, is a
'sister kiss'. I like my sisters, but not in that way.
SkyEyes
> It is not MY fault you cannot see the other issues within a given
> issue like this one.
As I asked you over on alt.atheism when you made this same ridiculous
assertion, have you actually *read* the Bible? There are plenty of
murders by "god-fearing" folks in it, especially in the Old Testament.
Boikat
Maybe you're halucinating, again.
Boikat
Vend
wrote:
> On Feb 12, 8:10 pm, bpuharic <w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>
> >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>
> > A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
> > University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
> > and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>
> > Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
> > reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>
> several times a year about textbook choice. Several other people in
> that room were acquaintances of mine.
My condolences.
> Another victory for "gun-free"
> zones.
Aren't "gun-free" zones supposed to be guarded by metal-detectors?
Vend
> On Feb 13, 2:42�pm, Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:
>
> > As for students who have failed courses, that is also a cause for
> > serious concern and has been for years. �There is a serious current
> > movement in the US to allow students to bring loaded guns onto
> > campus and into classes....
>
> Indeed. �It's beeing considered at the university where I work.
>
> Aside from un-tenured professors and students who fail a critical
> class, who wants to give drunken frat boys ready, legal access to
> guns?
And anyway, are you supposed to keep a gun on your person at all times
just in case somebody around you goes nuts and start shooting with
their gun?
Vend
> In article <hl7o5401...@news2.newsguy.com>, William Morse
A person who already killed somebody is allowed to own guns?
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <hl7os...@news7.newsguy.com>):
> Will in New Haven wrote:
>> On Feb 12, 8:10 pm, bpuharic <w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>>>
>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>>>
>>> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
>>> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
>>> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>>>
>>> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
>>> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>>
>> One of the people killed was a cell biology professor I talk to
>> several times a year about textbook choice. Several other people in
>> that room were acquaintances of mine. Another victory for "gun-free"
>> zones.
>
> My condolences. I have already made a comment on this story in the
> dispassionate mode of seeing it as a data point. But to those involved,
> and to those who knew them, it is a tragedy.
>
> And if hand gun ownership in the US were as effectively controlled as it
> is in Japan, the tragedy would most likely not have happened.
No, in Japan she'd have probably used a blade weapon instead. Possibly one or
two of those who died would have survived, but would now be missing various
body parts. Tradition and all that.
However, you, and others who try to use gun control arguments, might want to
look up a few places where there are _extremely serious_ gun-control regimes
in place. In Jamaica, for example, illegal possession of so much as a single
round of ammunition can get you life in prison, and it is _very_ difficult to
get a firearms license... and that license states how much ammo you're
allowed to buy in a given year. if the cops check out your house and you have
too much ammo, or if the ammo you have doesn't match the calibres you're
licensed for, you'll be a Guest of Her Majesty at the South Camp Road Prison.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Court> And yes, it's still red 'cause it's
dread. Despite the draconian gun control system, there have been in excess of
1600 murders per year in Jamaica fo the last decade, mostly with firearms,
though a significant percentage are done with the more traditional machete. A
substantial number of the murders over the years since the passage of the Gun
Court legislation have been of policemen. You see, they are the one group
that everyone _knows_ has a gun, so whereas in the United States criminals
try to avoid killing cops, in Jamaica they kill them _first_, usually with a
machete, so as to get hold of the gun. Which is why policemen walk the beat
in Kingston in groups of four to six, at least one of whom will be carrying a
shotgun, another one an Uzi or a Sterling, and one more a Colt Commando, the
carbine version of the M 16. And why the Flying Squad sends out vehicles with
four constables aboard, all armed with Uzis or Colt Commandos. If you're in
Kingston and you see a white Opel Rekord driving slowly down the street,
occupied by men in white shirts and dark pants, they're either Mormon
missionaries or the Flying Squad. If you see rifle barrels sticking out of
the windows, they ain't Mormons. And then there's the 'joint military-police
patrol': four guys in a Jeep, three of them soldiers in camies and carrying
SLRs or SA80s, with a GPMG sitting in the back of the vehicle, one a Mobile
Reserve cop carrying a SMLE or a SLR. In theory the soldiers are there to
back up the cop, who has the power of arrest while they don't. In fact, the
soldiers are there to lay down automatic weapons fire. In 'volatile areas'
the joint military-police patrols ride in V-150 armoured personnel vehicles,
mounting .50 calibre machine guns. The JDF had about a dozen of 'em, it's
down to eight, the others have been wrecked on operations over the years and
Cadillac-Gage ain't making new ones. On at least one occasion the Mobile
Reserve and the Army went into a 'volatile area' in battalion strength
(literally; total strength was in excess of 300, including 100 soldiers) and
encountered heavy resistance, and called in a helo from the Army... and the
helo took ground fire and retreated back to Up Park Camp, strapped on some
machine guns and came back.
<http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20031016/lead/lead3.html> (There was
a much better version of this story on the Jamaica Observer's site, but
they've just done a re-org and I can't find it.) Yes, folks, the cops called
in an air strike. You can't make this stuff up.
Are y'all _sure_ that you want gun control?
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
chris thompson
Apparently the wing-nuts believe this will reduce the toll should that
happen. I for one, having been a target shooter for the last 40 years,
dread the thought of a bunch of teenagers pulling out handguns and
blasting away if someone does go nuts. They are sure to hit more
people by accident than the gunman could ever hit on purpose.
Chris
chris thompson
He's sunk pretty low, and swimming hard to get to Jabriol depths.
Chris
chris thompson
Got shot down twice, did you?
Chris
Malygris
> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:58:16 -0500, William Morse wrote
> (in article <hl7os...@news7.newsguy.com>):
>> And if hand gun ownership in the US were as effectively controlled as it
>> is in Japan, the tragedy would most likely not have happened.
>
> No, in Japan she'd have probably used a blade weapon instead. Possibly one
> or two of those who died would have survived, but would now be missing
> various body parts. Tradition and all that.
>
> However, you, and others who try to use gun control arguments, might want
> to look up a few places where there are _extremely serious_ gun-control
> regimes in place. In Jamaica, for example, illegal possession of so much
> as a single round of ammunition can get you life in prison, and it is
> _very_ difficult to get a firearms license... and that license states how
> much ammo you're allowed to buy in a given year. if the cops check out
> your house and you have too much ammo, or if the ammo you have doesn't
> match the calibres you're licensed for, you'll be a Guest of Her Majesty
> at the South Camp Road Prison. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Court>
> And yes, it's still red 'cause it's dread. Despite the draconian gun
> control system, there have been in excess of 1600 murders per year in
> Jamaica fo the last decade, mostly with firearms, though a significant
> percentage are done with the more traditional machete.
What I find interesting that you have to take a Third World country as a
counterexample to make the US look good. Have you considered looking at a
society without severe social and political problems for comparison?
--
Malygris
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <7tqdns...@mid.individual.net>):
Okay, how about the Soviet Union in the 1930s, 40s, and 50s. Lots of
'brigandage' in places like Georgia and the 'stans. Come to think of it,
things haven't changed that much even now, they just call it 'Chechen
terrorism' instead... Would the Russian Federation be 1st World enough for
you? How about the People's Republic of China? Lots of 'brigandage' in the
PRC's wild wild West... And perhaps I shouldn't mention the former
Yugoslavia... And then there's, well, Northern Ireland. Would the UK be 1st
world enough? Fairly severe gun controls there, too.
J.J. O'Shea
(in article
<1f5a8b87-ca14-47c6...@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>):
My fav example of why those things, and all the nonsense perpetuated in
airports by the TSA, are merely security theatre and have little or no actual
value is the time that one young lady was arrested in O'Hare Airport on her
way _out_ the door. It seems that she had 'forgotten' to remove her
(licensed) revolver from her handbag when she boarded a commercial flight in
Miami. She got through security in Miami. She changed planes in Atlanta, got
through there, too. She changed planes somewhere else, I forget where
(Cleveland? I can't recall) and got through there, too. She was picked up in
Chicago not because she tripped any alarms, but because a Chicago cop didn't
like the way she was carrying her handbag and asked for a look-see.
If she could get through _three_ different sets of airport screening systems
carrying a loaded .357 magnum, well...
To be sure, this was about 5 years ago, so things may have tightened up
since. Then again, we _are_ talking about the TSA, so perhaps you could carry
a howitzer aboard an aircraft, assuming that you could get it to fit in the
overhead bin.
Malygris
So, gun control does not work in countries where laws can not be enforced
because the areas in question are "wild west"-territory or the battlefield
of a civil war. That's rather obvious and not only a problem for gun laws.
What does that say about the usefulness or uselessness of gun control in a
country with a functioning society and a working police and justice?
--
Malygris
Wombat
> On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 08:56:09 -0500, Malygris wrote
>
>
>
>
>
> > J.J. O'Shea wrote:
>
> >> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:58:16 -0500, William Morse wrote
The Russian Federation is actually the 2nd World. Another terrorist
group in NI have given up its weapons recently. How many shootings
there recently, btw?
Try picking out a stable, 1st world country where there is some gun
control and little gun crime. The countries comprising Scandinavia do
spring to mind.
Mike Dworetsky
I understand from news reports that she was never prosecuted for the
shooting at her home 20 years ago.
In any event, you have heard of illegal guns being sold, haven't you?
--
Mike Dworetsky
(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)
All-seeing-I
> Will in New Haven wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 12, 8:10 pm, bpuharic <w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>
> >>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>
> >> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
> >> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
> >> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>
> >> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
> >> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>
> > One of the people killed was a cell biology professor I talk to
> > several times a year about textbook choice. Several other people in
> > that room were acquaintances of mine. Another victory for "gun-free"
> > zones.
>
> My condolences. I have already made a comment on this story in the
> dispassionate mode of seeing it as a data point. But to those involved,
> and to those who knew them, it is a tragedy.
>
> And if hand gun ownership in the US were as effectively controlled as it
> is in Japan, the tragedy would most likely not have happened.
>
Controling the gun is not the answer. Changing the motivation behind
the behavior is the answer.
If a gun was not available then a knife or other method could be used.
Even poisons made from natural plants. Will you ban plants next?
>
>
> > --
> > Will in New Haven
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b5-aBarlIg&feature=PlayList&p=DE52C9E...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Vend
> Then again, we _are_ talking about the TSA, so perhaps you could carry
> a howitzer aboard an aircraft, assuming that you could get it to fit in the
> overhead bin.
Or in your pants.
The only thing airport security seems to accomplish is to allow the
airport shop owners to sell overpriced bottled water.
Paul J Gans
>On Feb 13, 4:47 pm, Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:
>> SortingItOut <eri...@home.com> wrote:
>> >> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>>
>> >>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>>
>> >> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
>> >> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
>> >> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>>
>> >> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
>> >> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>> >at a given university), or can you apply repeatedly?
>>
>> [This is probably answered below further down the thread, but
>> I've not gotten that far yet.]
>>
>> Once, at any given place. If you are denied tenure at Yale or
>> Harvard, you *might* gain a place at a smaller school somewhere.
>> But for many, being turned down for tenure is the end of any
>> chance of a permanent job at a research university.
>>
>> --
>> --- Paul J. Gans
>I think tenure should be done away with
It has its uses, though its days are probably numbered.
One reason why many folks don't like academics is because
they are outspoken on social and political issues. They can
do that because they do have tenure. And society will be
the poorer if they are silenced.
Steven L.
news:hl76ch$ad4$1...@reader2.panix.com:
> r norman <r_s_n...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:52:26 -0800 (PST), Ron O <roki...@cox.net>
> >wrote:
>
> >>On Feb 12, 7:46�pm, All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
> >>> On Feb 12, 7:10�pm, bpuharic <w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
> >>>
> >>> >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
> >>>
> >>> > A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
> >>> > University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
> >>> > and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
> >>>
> >>> > Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
> >>> > reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
> >>>
> >>> Cause: �Evolution
> >>
> >>Likely insanity. That should worry you, but you are likely too
> >>mentally incompetent to work through the implications.
>
> >We had a tenure case where I was frightened enough to report my
> >concerns about the individual denied tenure to campus security. I
> >actually sometimes mentally planned what I might do if he stormed into
> >one of my classes. It was not at all a pleasant experience. Other
> >faculty report similar feelings about some failed students. All sorts
> >of crazy things happen nowadays on college campuses.
>
> Agreed. Tenure decisions affect a person's life in a very
> serious way. In some cases they mean the end of full-time
> employment in academia -- something a person may well have
> worked for all their previous life.
>
> I am not going to speculate on this particular case, but
> I too have seen tenure refusals that made me fairly antsy.
It was revealed that this particular professor had shot her own brother
to death in anger some years before.
That should have rated her too "antsy" for any college campus.
--
--
Steven L.
sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the "NOSPAM" before sending to this email address.
Steven L.
news:26e45fe2-3663-4b26...@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:
> On Feb 13, 12:23�pm, All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 12, 9:27�pm, Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
> > > >On Feb 12, 7:10�pm, bpuharic <w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > >> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
> >
> > > >>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
> >
> > > >> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
> > > >> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
> > > >> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
> >
> > > >> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
> > > >> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
> > > >Cause: �Evolution
> >
> > > Sorry fella, that goes beyond the pale. �People DIED in this
> > > incident. �It is not a joke.
> >
> > > --
> > > � �--- Paul J. Gans
> >
> > I was not joking.
>
> Yes, evolution did make our species competitive and aggressive and,
> sometimes, murderous. The ToA didn't do that, as one can see from
> human history long before Darwin wrote a word. But _evolution_ did it.
> It produced the species that could write masterpieces, work tirelessly
> to aid strangers and kill innocent people. Evolution made us what we
> are.
An interesting scientific research project would be to teach a
chimpanzee in a troupe in the while how to shoot with a handgun. (Teach
the chimp to shoot small animals, and let him see that he did indeed
kill them from a distance.)
What would happen to the troupe? Would other chimps then start
clamoring for their own guns?
Steven L.
news:proto-F7C392....@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net:
> In article
> <70a4146a-dfa0-4baf...@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
> Will in New Haven <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > One of the people killed was a cell biology professor I talk to
> > several times a year about textbook choice.
>
> Not anymore you don't. Unless you have methods I don't know about. :(
Even with that emoticon, what you posted was in poor taste.
Free Lunch
wrote in talk.origins:
And the opponents of academics tend to be right-wingers. Because this
sort has been demonizing academics for decades, few people who have a
right-wing outlook bother to go into academia. When Bill Buckley wrote
_God and Man at Yale_, his screed against higher education, the Ivies
were nearly as supportive of the status quo as your average chamber of
commerce. Ike wasn't given the job of president of Columbia because he
was a raging liberal and, earlier, Wilson, though a Democrat, was very
conservative, reactionary in some ways.
At least there is somewhere today that the lies of reactionaries and
right-wing authoritarians are not swallowed whole.
r norman
The newspaper articles I have seen say that the incident was recorded
as an accident so there is no formal charge against her for it.
There probably is some item on an employment application listing
criminal record but she was clean on that account. Besides, I don't
know of any faculty search committee that ever looks into such things.
The official institution application form is usually not even filled
out until after the department makes a choice and the dean (or
provost) makes an offer of employment. Then nobody except possibly
people in the HR department ever look at the form.
TomS
<gkcgn5h697d6n9q65...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch stated..."
There was a time in the USA when you went to college to make social/
business contacts.
--
---Tom S.
Be not ashamed to inform the unwise and foolish, and the extreme aged that
contendeth with those that are young: thus shalt thou be truly learned, and
approved of all men living.: Sirach 42:8
Walter Bushell
<d5a3387f-8231-45c9...@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
SkyEyes <skye...@cox.net> wrote:
Sacking a town and D-G punished them for not killing everyone down to
the domestic animals. When D-G was merciful they were allowed to kill
the women and rape the men, or was that vice versa.
Doesn't matter, it never did happen. They were playing the my D-G is
badder than you D-G game.
--
A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard.
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by chris thompson
<chris.li...@gmail.com>:
Just a couple of pedant points...
It's illegal (Federal law) for anyone under 21 to possess a
handgun, and has been for years. And every proposal I've
seen involves only those, both professors and over-21
students, who take the required classes and get a CCW
permit. It's not an open-ended license to carry, and it
doesn't apply to teenagers.
--
Bob C.
"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
- McNameless
David Fritzinger
"Steven L." <sdli...@earthlink.net> wrote:
I just read that she was also suspected in a bomb plot at Harvarad
(IIRC). That should rate her as really, REALLY antsy for a college
campus.
Steven L.
news:dfritzin-4205FD...@news.eternal-september.org:
Yes, it was a double pipe bomb targeted at one of her professors when
she was a doctoral candidate. She had been worried that she was going
to get a negative evaluation of her doctoral work.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/02/ala_slay_suspec.html
While Amy Bishop is in jail, hopefully she will review how the
scientific method is supposed to work.
UC
> On Feb 13, 7:40 pm, UC <uraniumcommit...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 13, 4:47 pm, Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:
>
> > > SortingItOut <eri...@home.com> wrote:
> > > >On Feb 12, 7:10 pm, bpuharic <w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > >> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>
> > > >>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>
> > > >> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
> > > >> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
> > > >> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>
> > > >> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
> > > >> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
> > > >at a given university), or can you apply repeatedly?
>
> > > [This is probably answered below further down the thread, but
> > > I've not gotten that far yet.]
>
> > > Once, at any given place. If you are denied tenure at Yale or
> > > Harvard, you *might* gain a place at a smaller school somewhere.
> > > But for many, being turned down for tenure is the end of any
> > > chance of a permanent job at a research university.
>
> > > --
> > > --- Paul J. Gans
>
> > I think tenure should be done away with
>
I do. There is no tenure in any other line of work. It causes more
problems than it solves.
Burkhard
Rather depends what country you are talking about. And judges (at
least more senior ones) e.g. have tenure in most countries, and for
the same reason that it is desirable for academics.
UC
Not really. A lot of academics are completely out of touch with
reality. It is only within the ivory tower, protected from the trials
of the open market of ideas, that you find the outrageous idiotic
beliefs that are common among academics.
Too bad Ward Churchill wasn't in the line of fire....what a total
scumbag.
UC
UC
The idea is it makes them less corruptible...but does it? I doubt it.
Paul J Gans
>On Feb 13, 2:42 pm, Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:
>> As for students who have failed courses, that is also a cause for
>> serious concern and has been for years. There is a serious current
>> movement in the US to allow students to bring loaded guns onto
>> campus and into classes....
>Indeed. It's beeing considered at the university where I work.
>Aside from un-tenured professors and students who fail a critical
>class, who wants to give drunken frat boys ready, legal access to
>guns?
>It's a recipe for disaster.
Pretty much the entire NRA. This is going to be a serious
fight. They claim, on the basis of no evidence other than
testosterone, that widespread carrying of guns on campus will
put an end to mass murders on campus.
Paul J Gans
>On 14 Feb, 04:40, SkyEyes <skyey...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Feb 13, 2:42 pm, Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:
>>
>> > As for students who have failed courses, that is also a cause for
>> > serious concern and has been for years. There is a serious current
>> > movement in the US to allow students to bring loaded guns onto
>> > campus and into classes....
>>
>> Indeed. It's beeing considered at the university where I work.
>>
>> Aside from un-tenured professors and students who fail a critical
>> class, who wants to give drunken frat boys ready, legal access to
>> guns?
>And anyway, are you supposed to keep a gun on your person at all times
>just in case somebody around you goes nuts and start shooting with
>their gun?
Oh yes. Especially when sitting around a circular conference
table. I'd like that...
:-)
Paul J Gans
>On 14 Feb, 04:12, John Wilkins <j...@wilkins.id.au> wrote:
>> In article <hl7o5401...@news2.newsguy.com>, William Morse
>>
>>
>>
>> <wdNOSPAMMo...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> > Paul J Gans wrote:
>> > >> guess this proves evolution did cause the holocaust:
>>
>> > >>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
>>
>> > >> A biology professor was in custody Friday after a shooting at the
>> > >> University of Alabama-Huntsville campus that left three people dead
>> > >> and three others wounded, according to police and media reports.
>>
>> > >> Amy Bishop, a Harvard University-trained neuroscientist who was
>> > >> reportedly upset over being denied tenure, was taken into custody
>>
>> > > be stress free...
>>
>> > I had been going to try to bring this back on-topic by noting that this
>> > seemed like a doomsday machine reaction, which is rare in females,
>> > because they can usually find another choice even when initially
>> > rejected. This would go along with your discussion of the stress
>> > associated with tenure rejection, especially the potential aspect of
>> > that being the end to an academic career. But then I noticed that she
>> > had earlier killed her brother. So maybe she is just a nutcase.
>>
>> Or maybe she was so affected by both the trauma of the earlier event,
>> and the fact that she got away without sanction, that she was already
>> predisposed to use violence when frustrated. People can learn a deep
>> behaviour from trauma.
>A person who already killed somebody is allowed to own guns?
The previous death was evidently ruled an accident. Another
case of kids playing with guns. Or perhaps it wasn't?...