On Feb 18, 7:42 pm, Robert Camp <
robertlc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 18, 8:58 am, backspace <
stephan...@gmail.com> wrote:
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> > On Feb 18, 4:43 pm, Richard Norman <
r_s_nor...@comcast.net> wrote:
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> > > On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 08:23:15 -0800 (PST), backspace
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> > > <
stephan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >On Feb 18, 4:18 pm, Richard Norman <
r_s_nor...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > >> On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 07:29:39 -0800 (PST), backspace
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> > > >> <
stephan...@gmail.com> wrote:
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selectionmakesns a subclass of
Did Darwin use selection the pattern with a purpose or pattern without
a purpose sense? Which raises the real question we are dealing with:
What is purpose. Because our premises differ on this issue our
conclusions differ. Your atheist premise is that purpose is tied to
matter, while the YEC premise is that a certain arrangement of
matter(black ink in a book) represents purpose but does not constitute
it. Purpose, reality and the number 7 has no physical location from
the theist premise, while Atheist believe that these can only be tied
to matter. Hence the impossibility of communicating when using the
same objects.
Both natural and selection can be used in either the pattern or design
sense.
1) natural(unintended) selection(decision) - oxymoron
1a) purposeless purpose.
2) natural (intentional -
http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/Preferential_decision)
selection(decision).
2a) purpose purpose - Tautology.
The object 'natural' does not mean purposeless, its majority
metaphorical usage is to represent purposeless (literal meaning) while
its only other minority metaphorical usage is to represent a pattern
with a purpose -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design.
I propose we do away with the term *literal*, all language function as
metaphor, nothing has an actual literal meaning. Dictionaries provide
us with a roadmap , a repository so that if a Chinese speaker wants to
know what *selection* or *decision* is used for the majority of
situations he would be able to use the same object to communicate with
a native English speaker.
Thus instead we must have:
1) Literal dictionary meaning - Majority metaphorical usage.
2) Usual metaphorical usage - Minority metaphorical usage.
Hence the issue isn't what does ns literally mean, but what does is
metaphorically mean. IF we plug in the majority metaphor as derived
from a dictionary we have an oxymoron. The only way to escape
formulating a
http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/Meaningless_sentence
is to use the term metaphorically, or as a contracted shorthand for a
full sentence.
This full sentence Charles Kingsley understood in his letters to
Darwin, he clearly indicated that NS was used metaphorically and not
literally, because literally its an oxymoron.
http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/CharlesKingsley
When we *interpret* Darwin in the context of Huxley, Charles Hodge,
Matthew, Samuel Butler, James Hutton, Charles Kingsley, Spencer, Henry
Osborn(From the Greeks to Darwin), Aristotle, Democritus Atomism and
the many other hundreds of authors that formulated the ideas Darwin
condensed we derive the following conclusion:
Natural selection was the metaphor for Patrick Matthew's 'natural
means of competitive selection,survival,preservation,accumulation' and
specifically the metaphor for SoF. SoF <=> natural means of
competitive survival.
Today Dawkins, Wikipedia Epicureans, realizing that SoF makes them
look cognitively deficient insist that SoF was the metaphor for NS.
Which violates rule nr.35 of language:
1) Thou shalt only usage terms metaphorically for phrases and
sentences, not the other way around.
In other words as John d. Brey in his book Tautological Oxymorons
explained the materialists are forced to usage pre-Enlightenment
volitional type language to express a world view where there is no
volition or free will; bastardizing syntax in an effort to destroy the
dichotomous divide between a pattern with a purpose and pattern
without a purpose.
Natural <=> unintentional and selection,survival,preservation etc.
used in the pattern without a purpose sense.
Our problem is to try and force dictionary meanings on metaphorical
usage. From a dictionary perspective NS is an oxymoron and therefore
to avoid ambiguity it must be used metaphorically for a fully
formulated sentence.
Compare what Charles Hodge wrote on the five pages on NS in OoS:
http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/Charles_Hodge
http://www.talkorigins.org/sandbox/kwork/Ver4_tautology.html#ref04
Darwin wrote:
Others have objected that the term selection implies conscious choice
in the animals which become modified; and it has even been urged that,
as plants have no volition, natural selection is not applicable to
them! In the literal sense of the word, no doubt, natural selection is
a misnomer; but who ever objected to chemists speaking of the elective
affinities of the various elements? -and yet an acid cannot strictly
be said to elect the base with which it will in preference combine. It
has been said that I speak of natural selection as an active power or
Deity; but who objects to an author speaking of the attraction of
gravity as ruling the movements of the planets? Every one knows what
is meant and is implied by such metaphorical expressions; and they are
almost necessary for brevity.[8]
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/19192/19192-h/19192-h.htm#Footnote_34_34
p.111 In his volume of "Lay Sermons, Reviews," etc., Professor Huxley
has a very severe critique on M. Flourens's book. He says little,
however, in reference to teleology, except in one paragraph, in which
we read: "M. Flourens cannot imagine an unconscious selection; it is
for him a contradiction in terms." Huxley's answer is, "The winds and
waves of the Bay of Biscay have not much consciousness, and yet they
have with great care 'selected,' from an infinity of masses of silex,
all grains of sand below a certain size and have heaped them by
themselves over a great area.... A frosty night selects[Pg 111] the
hardy plants in a plantation from among the tender ones as effectually
as if the intelligence of the gardener had been operative in cutting
the weaker ones down."[35] If this means anything, it means that as
the winds and waves of the Bay of Biscay can make heaps of sand, so
similar unconscious agencies can, if you only give them time enough,
make an elephant or a man; for this is what Mr. Darwin says natural
selection has done. - Lay Sermons, p. 347.