Origin of Astrology
Ganesh
it should have been something as rational as I just stated in one of
the threads posted here.
David Hare-Scott
There were several quite careful replies there why are starting another
thread? What would be wrong with following some of the leads already given?
David
[M]adman
Seth
Desertphile
<gan...@growthsolutions.co.in> wrote:
> Does anyone have the details about the Origin of Astrology.
Yes.
--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz
John S. Wilkins
> On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 01:10:53 -0700 (PDT), Ganesh
> <gan...@growthsolutions.co.in> wrote:
>
> > Does anyone have the details about the Origin of Astrology.
>
> Yes.
This is a good text:
Koch-Westenholz, Ulla. 1995. Mesopotamian astrology: an introduction to
Babylonian and Assyrian celestial divination, CNI publications; 19.
Copenhagen: Carsten Niebuhr Institute of Near Eastern Studies : Museum
Tusculanum Press, University of Copenhagen.
--
John S. Wilkins, Philosophy, University of Sydney
http://evolvingthoughts.net
But al be that he was a philosophre,
Yet hadde he but litel gold in cofre
Michael Siemon
jo...@wilkins.id.au (John S. Wilkins) wrote:
> Desertphile <deser...@invalid-address.net> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 01:10:53 -0700 (PDT), Ganesh
> > <gan...@growthsolutions.co.in> wrote:
> >
> > > Does anyone have the details about the Origin of Astrology.
> >
> > Yes.
>
> This is a good text:
>
> Koch-Westenholz, Ulla. 1995. Mesopotamian astrology: an introduction to
> Babylonian and Assyrian celestial divination, CNI publications; 19.
> Copenhagen: Carsten Niebuhr Institute of Near Eastern Studies : Museum
> Tusculanum Press, University of Copenhagen.
I expect that to be quite good -- but I also suspect that Ganesh is
actually interested in horoscopal astrology (and if the name is any
indication, possibly specifically in the version therof in the Indian
subcontinent -- possibly with a Hinduist agenda lurking. :-))
John S. Wilkins
What that book in particular might show him is how astrology actually
evolved, and how it spread to the east and the west from Mesopotamia.
This might undercut his desire to find it to be the foundation for Vedic
and Judaic religions.
The "standard" version of astrology is called the EAE account. It didn't
quite make it all the way to Europe, so what he's relying upon here is
an American version of a European version of a classical Greek version
of an Anatolian/Hittite version of a Mesopotamian version of prior city
state versions of religion... that was spread to India via the internet
and mass media.
Sure, *that's* going to deliver timeless truths.
Michael Siemon
(Ah; who knew that the intertubes were ancient?!
Does the Koch-Westenholz text really go into the issues of transmission?
that is not obvious from the title...)
John S. Wilkins
[M]adman
You guys have no idea who is responsible for the Origin of Astrology.
Way before The "standard" version of astrology that is called the EAE
account;
There was Seth.
HTH.
adman
Robert Camp
>
> >> In article <1j2hcbj.6z57cr1wn8szfN%j...@wilkins.id.au>,
> >> j...@wilkins.id.au (John S. Wilkins) wrote:
>
> >>> Michael Siemon <mlsie...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> >>>> In article <1j2hazm.876adj102aok1N%j...@wilkins.id.au>,
> >>>> j...@wilkins.id.au (John S. Wilkins) wrote:
Never let the water get above your ankles, do you?
rmacfarl
"John S. Wilkins" <jo...@wilkins.id.au> wrote in message
news:1j2hazm.876adj102aok1N%jo...@wilkins.id.au...
> Desertphile <deser...@invalid-address.net> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 01:10:53 -0700 (PDT), Ganesh
>> <gan...@growthsolutions.co.in> wrote:
>>
>> > Does anyone have the details about the Origin of Astrology.
>>
>> Yes.
>
> This is a good text:
>
> Koch-Westenholz, Ulla. 1995. Mesopotamian astrology: an
> introduction to
> Babylonian and Assyrian celestial divination, CNI publications;
> 19.
> Copenhagen: Carsten Niebuhr Institute of Near Eastern Studies :
> Museum
> Tusculanum Press, University of Copenhagen.
>
> --
You familiar with John Morieson's work on traditional astronomy
of aborigines of NW Victoria John?
http://www.malleefowlvictoria.org.au/astronomy.html
Robert Carnegie
If you yourself do not know the origin of astrology, why are you
confident that it's rational?
I have been told that mouldy bread was a traditional treatment for
wounds in Persia - although I'm not sure that that's true. The drug
penicillin was eventually discovered in mould - but I don't think that
the people using mould as a treatment were getting enough penicillin
to be a benefit. So if the discovery was connected to the supposed
traditional practice - and it is not connected - if it was connected,
the traditional practice still wouldn't be rational, because it
doesn't work.
On the other hand - perhaps the interesting book which has been
mentioned on the topic of astrology touches on this - on the other
hand, the business of living, especially with primitive resources,
depends on the weather and the seasons, and the seasons run along with
the apparent movements of stars, although that is more or less
accidental. So, ancient buildings such as Stonehaenge are claimed to
be astronomical calculators, amongst other things. Built to observe
that a certain star was at a certain point in relation to the ground,
which tells you the season and time of the year, if you can't count -
and a year is not a whole number of days anyway. But the stars are
not reliable forever, due to the Earth's precession, and apparently
Victorian antiquarians discovered Stonehenge mostly fallen down and
nobly put it back up again, so that where its stones are now may be
not where they were originally set.
John S. Wilkins
rmacfarl
Not unless you want to be. I just posted it for interest.
Actually I just recently put him in contact with a guy in South
Africa who's doing a Masters on traditional astronomy in SSA, &
who was all excited to hear about this information from Oz...
Cheers,
Ross Macfarlane
Ganesh
for those who missed the thread http://tinyurl.com/mxomys
Ganesh
> "John S. Wilkins" <j...@wilkins.id.au> wrote in messagenews:1j2hazm.876adj102aok1N%jo...@wilkins.id.au...
>
>
>
> > Desertphile <desertph...@invalid-address.net> wrote:
>
> >> On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 01:10:53 -0700 (PDT), Ganesh
> >> <gan...@growthsolutions.co.in> wrote:
>
> >> > Does anyone have the details about the Origin of Astrology.
>
> >> Yes.
>
> > This is a good text:
>
> > Koch-Westenholz, Ulla. 1995. Mesopotamian astrology: an
> > introduction to
> > Babylonian and Assyrian celestial divination, CNI publications;
> > 19.
> > Copenhagen: Carsten Niebuhr Institute of Near Eastern Studies :
> > Museum
> > Tusculanum Press, University of Copenhagen.
>
> > --
>
> You familiar with John Morieson's work on traditional astronomy
> of aborigines of NW Victoria John?http://www.malleefowlvictoria.org.au/astronomy.html
that's a well researched one. thanks for the post
Ganesh
> Michael Siemon <mlsie...@sonic.net> wrote:
> > In article <1j2hazm.876adj102aok1N%j...@wilkins.id.au>,
>
> > > Desertphile <desertph...@invalid-address.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 01:10:53 -0700 (PDT), Ganesh
> > > > <gan...@growthsolutions.co.in> wrote:
>
> > > > > Does anyone have the details about the Origin of Astrology.
>
> > > > Yes.
>
> > > This is a good text:
>
> > > Koch-Westenholz, Ulla. 1995. Mesopotamian astrology: an introduction to
> > > Babylonian and Assyrian celestial divination, CNI publications; 19.
> > > Copenhagen: Carsten Niebuhr Institute of Near Eastern Studies : Museum
> > > Tusculanum Press, University of Copenhagen.
>
> > I expect that to be quite good -- but I also suspect that Ganesh is
> > actually interested in horoscopal astrology (and if the name is any
> > indication, possibly specifically in the version therof in the Indian
> > subcontinent -- possibly with a Hinduist agenda lurking. :-))
>
> What that book in particular might show him is how astrology actually
> evolved, and how it spread to the east and the west from Mesopotamia.
> This might undercut his desire to find it to be the foundation for Vedic
> and Judaic religions.
Yes, that is correct. I want to specifically know why was Mathematics
in the Ancient times is so comprehensive. Why during a time where bow
and arrow is said to be the most advance weapon, why such precise
Mathematical calculations were required? there are many more questions
in my mind. I will put them across as and when the thread grows
Ganesh
> On Jul 6, 9:10 am, Ganesh <gan...@growthsolutions.co.in> wrote:
>
> > Does anyone have the details about the Origin of Astrology. I am sure
> > it should have been something as rational as I just stated in one of
> > the threads posted here.
>
> If you yourself do not know the origin of astrology, why are you
> confident that it's rational?
When I analyze I generally think about a "subject" from various
angles. An assumption of astrology being a rational science is one
among that. Only after I go further deep in this direction I will come
to know if it really is, or is not.
Many a times I have found new paths. If astrology in the past was not
why not I start to invent one? But, rationality of astrology in a
matter of investigation.
Chris
What is rational about the notion that the relative positions of
celestial bodies, which are tens or hundreds of light years distant
from Earth and from each other, can determine whether I should invest
in the stock market tomorrow?
Chris
John S. Wilkins
It's smarter than any other means of determining whether you should
invest in the stock market tomorrow?
Ganesh
> What is rational about the notion that the relative positions of
> celestial bodies, which are tens or hundreds of light years distant
> from Earth and from each other, can determine whether I should invest
> in the stock market tomorrow?
position.
Walter Bushell
jo...@wilkins.id.au (John S. Wilkins) wrote:
> > What is rational about the notion that the relative positions of
> > celestial bodies, which are tens or hundreds of light years distant
> > from Earth and from each other, can determine whether I should invest
> > in the stock market tomorrow?
> >
> It's smarter than any other means of determining whether you should
> invest in the stock market tomorrow?
I like that.
Astrology can put a randomizing influence into people's lives so they
try things they would not without that input. Belief in astrology (even
newspaper astrology[1]) may have positive fitness implications. Has
anyone tested that?
[1] It's possible some "Astrologers" may have some ability to read
people and thus give some useful information.
Mike Painter
Could be but the evidence says there is no real way to measure the
usefulness of the information. Give evrybody a carefully prepared chart
based on their birthdate and location and most will say on a scale of 1 to 5
that the information is a 4.
Present them with the information that *everybody* get exactly the same
chart reguardless of the information and they will make excuses.
Andrew Cunningham
You seem to be confusing the early development of a science(astronomy)
with a form of pseudoscience(astrology). One is about the observations
of celestial bodies, while the other is about how these celestial
bodies supposedly affect our lives. One is a rational science while
the other is superstition. It would be like confusing the study of
anatomy(science) with haruspicy(looking at animal entrails to predict
the future).
Vend
Perhaps the information presented in the chart was indeed mostly
accurate for most people.
Ganesh
Ganesh
If the science is rational, it should not be termed as Astrology?
Andrew Cunningham
Astronomy is the observation of celestial bodies. Astrology is the
idea that the observation of these celestial bodies can show us the
future(to put it simply). A comparison would be that anatomy can
involve the study of organs within an animal. Haruspicy, on the other
hand, is when you look at these organs as a means of divining future
events.
Realistically, if one could prove through enough scientific
methodology that either astrology or haruspicy are legitimate in their
claims, then you could call them a science. As it is, there is no
evidence that supports either as being remotely scientific(in fact, I
imagine there's quite a lot of evidence to the contrary). Divination
simply falls into the realm of pseudoscience.
Mike Painter
Of course it was, as is all information presented in any such reading.
Mark Isaak
> [...]
> Astrology can put a randomizing influence into people's lives so they
> try things they would not without that input. Belief in astrology (even
> newspaper astrology[1]) may have positive fitness implications. Has
> anyone tested that?
>
> [1] It's possible some "Astrologers" may have some ability to read
> people and thus give some useful information.
"Astrology rests on a proven principle, namely that if you know the exact
positions where the moon and the various planets were when a person was
born, you can get this person to give you money." - Dave Barry
--
Mark Isaak eciton (at) earthlink (dot) net
"It is certain, from experience, that the smallest grain of natural
honesty and benevolence has more effect on men's conduct, than the most
pompous views suggested by theological theories and systems." - D. Hume
Vend
Hence they were not wrong to rate the information 4/5.
They were wrong making excuses.
Mike Painter
time and location of their birth.
http://www.skepsis.nl/astrot.html tells what happens when "real" astrologers
do the work.
"It was as if each astrologer had used a random generator to determine the
correct matches."
Vend
Which, if I understand correctly, is not what the question asked.
>http://www.skepsis.nl/astrot.htmltells what happens when "real" astrologers