door-to-door revivalists
Aron-Ra
questions for me.
Do people go to church as much as they did five years ago?
"I don't know. I guess so".
Should the church be targeting old people, young people, or very young
children?
"Targeting?"
Like marketing. You know, the ones who need the church most.
"Need?"
Yes. Who should be the target audience, who should the gospel be brought to
most?
"No one."
You don't believe in the Bible?
"No".
Have you ever read it?
"Yes".
Then why don't you believe it?
[gotta love that question]
I answered with a lengthy explanation of numerous and various ancient myths
predating everything they knew and how they were all immediately relevatant
to the supposed validity of the Bible.
They dismissed all that as if I hadn't said anything. "The Bible speaks of
many prophesies. Why is it that all of these prophesies have come to pass?"
I countered with Jesus' many promises to return before his desciples were
dead.
"But they're only dead in the flesh", they said.
When I tried to inquire how Jesus' promise might still have meaning unless
they're going to die in the spirit too, they all changed the subject in
unison until I shut up and selected one of them to listen to.
"We were made in the image of God. But what is God?"
He smiled real big until I said, "an ape?"
So you think we came from apes?
"We *are* apes".
With a snide smile, he asked "then where's you tail?"
With a duplicate smile, I said "apes don't have tails".
Of course the next thing I heard was, "If we came from apes, then why are
there still apes?"
And I said, "Dogs came from wolves and yet there are still wolves". And why
shouldn't there be?
Rather than answer that, they pulled out some parable about how to get
someone to sit in a chair that had never seen a chair before.
"I can prove that we're apes"
"How would you get them to sit in that chair?"
"Would you like to hear how I can prove it?"
"If they've never seen a chair, how would get them to sit in it?"
The conversation went on for about an hour. Everything I had to say just
seemed to bounce off their smiling mannequin-like faces. They blocked it
all out and learned nothing from the encounter. Such is the power of faith.
Aron-Ra
pz
"Aron-Ra" <ilc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
> The conversation went on for about an hour. Everything I had to say just
> seemed to bounce off their smiling mannequin-like faces. They blocked it
> all out and learned nothing from the encounter. Such is the power of faith.
An HOUR?
So what did you learn from the encounter?
--
pz
Rubystars
"Aron-Ra" <ilc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Bz6j8.12452$Vx1.9...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
And to think I usually just shut the door on them.
-Rubystars
Aron-Ra
pz <my...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:myers-8F8970....@laurel.tc.umn.edu...
I learned how obvious the avoidance is. They hate forums such as this
because they are masters of confrontation, obfuscation and confusion;
interrupting every important statement to ask irrelevant nonsense like "What
is the meaning of existence?" and "Why is the Earth here?"
All answers are dismissed as irrelevant or beside the point even when I
prove they are not.
I challenged the value of their faith as being ineffective in understanding
the truth of the unknown. And to demonstrate that, I asked him if the Satan
was in the garden of Eden. Of course he said "Yes".
"How do you know that?" I asked. "It says so in scripture". He replied.
"Ahh, but it doesn't say that. You assume that it does because you want it
to. Then you evoke faith by deceiving yourself into believing that it says
so. But when you open these pages to prove it, those words are not there.
Faith is a form of self-deception".
When he argued that the being of the serpent in the garden was an unwritten
truth, I said it was merely a Biblical legend and that Michaelangelo and
Bosche and every other Christian artist to render the temptation of Eve cast
a woman in the role of the serpent until the time of King James. Satan
quite clearly was not believed to be the serpent before then. The
Pentateuch gives distinctly seperate and unrelated origins and fates for
both Satan and the serpent. And that is something that can only be revealed
once the blinders of faith are removed. Of course, they just ignored me and
went on believing what they believed in the first place, as if I had said
nothing. If I were an ignorant and superstitious Bronze-age goat-herder,
they would have believed any stupid fever dream I might have. But I am an
intelligent, sober, learned and rational man, so my words are without
meaning for them.
The truth doesn't depend on confusing cross-examination, obfuscation or
avoiding the issue. And whatever is true will still be so whether you want
to believe it is or not, so absolutely no faith is ever required of anything
that is true.
Faith is reserved for the maintainance of lies.
Aron-Ra
pz
"Aron-Ra" <ilc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
OK. So you didn't learn anything new, either.
--
pz
Bill Hudson
> And to think I usually just shut the door on them.
>
> -Rubystars
back when I was young and rude, I would tend to say things like "We're
satanists, and we need a volunteer for our human sacrifice rites. Would
you like to help us out?"
Dave P
"Aron-Ra" <ilc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Bz6j8.12452$Vx1.9...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
they dont sound like my crew.
>
> Aron-Ra
>
bugeye
"Aron-Ra" <ilc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Bz6j8.12452$Vx1.9...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
I have a variety of reactions, depending on my mood. Sometimes I just don't
answer the door, sometimes I let them talk to my wife, the Wiccan (especialy
usefull with Jehova's Witneses) and sometimes "Jesus loves you" over and
over until they get realy, really nervous and leave. (You have no idea how
incredibly miniacle such an innocent phrase is until you are bombarded by it
80 or 90 times in a row..:P)
I have also found that showing up with ALL my dogs at the door keeps the
conversation brief.
We have churches every two blocks around here.. I'll have no trouble finding
one if I want it. I don't need the door to door approach. lol
Jon Fleming
Sure sounds like you.
>>
>> Aron-Ra
>>
>
pz
Bill Hudson <huds...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Or if she was cute, you could always invite her to join in the fertility
rituals.
--
pz
Aron-Ra
> In article <2E8j8.12663$Vx1.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> "Aron-Ra" <ilc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > pz <my...@mac.com> wrote in message
> > news:myers-8F8970....@laurel.tc.umn.edu...
> > > In article
> > > <Bz6j8.12452$Vx1.9...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> > > "Aron-Ra" <ilc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > [snip]
> > Faith is reserved for the maintainance of lies.
>
>
> OK. So you didn't learn anything new, either.
Well, I did sort of. I got to see something that I obviously don't get to
see here. I got to see the desperation in their eyes as I pleaded with them
to let me prove to them conclusively that they were in fact apes, (such a
challenge I've never been able to resist) But they put up their hands and
laughed as if i were a child talking about Santa. They would not let me
tell them anything. All comunition had to be in their silly parables. No
facts were admissable at all.
I got to see their empty thoughtless eyes and patronizing smiles. I
understood by their faces during their desperate interruptions, the haste to
change the subject and cut me off now so as to avoid anything that might
challenge thier self-perpetuating delusion. And that says more than they
ever type in this forum.
Aron-Ra
Aron-Ra
Dave P <dave...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3c8d1bac$0$17...@echo-01.iinet.net.au...
>
> "Aron-Ra" <ilc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Bz6j8.12452$Vx1.9...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > The conversation went on for about an hour. Everything I had to say
just
> > seemed to bounce off their smiling mannequin-like faces. They blocked
it
> > all out and learned nothing from the encounter. Such is the power of
> faith.
>
> they dont sound like my crew.
They sound like you.
Aron-Ra
Bill Hudson
I never got the cute young female variety. I always get the male senior
citizens in groups of two or three.
Chris Thompson
An atheist acquaintance (many years ago) was pulled from a
mid-Saturday-morning shower by a pair of elderly female JW's. He opened
the door a crack and hid behind it, until he realized what they were
saying. In the true atheist tradition of hospitality, he threw open the
door and invited them in so he could hear more.
I can only envy his nerve.
Chris
pz
Bill Hudson <huds...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:26:43 -0800, pz wrote:
>
> > In article <pan.2002.03.11.11....@yahoo.com>,
> > Bill Hudson <huds...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:00:48 -0800, Rubystars wrote:
> >>
> >> > And to think I usually just shut the door on them.
> >> >
> >> > -Rubystars
> >>
> >> back when I was young and rude, I would tend to say things like "We're
> >> satanists, and we need a volunteer for our human sacrifice rites. Would
> >> you like to help us out?"
> >>
> >>
> > Or if she was cute, you could always invite her to join in the fertility
> > rituals.
> >
>
> I never got the cute young female variety. I always get the male senior
> citizens in groups of two or three.
>
Hmmm. I always got the old matron accompanied by the younger,
virginal-looking lady. Must have been a sect difference.
--
pz
John Wilkins
That watching missionaries squirm is more entertaining than an episode
of Friends?
--
John Wilkins
Occasionally having fun for over 46 years...
I am nothing like this - no, really:
<http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame17.html>
pz
wil...@wehi.edu.au (John Wilkins) wrote:
> pz <my...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <Bz6j8.12452$Vx1.9...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> > "Aron-Ra" <ilc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > The conversation went on for about an hour. Everything I had to say just
> > > seemed to bounce off their smiling mannequin-like faces. They blocked it
> > > all out and learned nothing from the encounter. Such is the power of
> > > faith.
> >
> > An HOUR?
> >
> > So what did you learn from the encounter?
>
> That watching missionaries squirm is more entertaining than an episode
> of Friends?
That's like saying watching missionaries squirm is more entertaining
than running an auger up one's nostril. Do I really need to find out if
it's true?
--
pz
Marty Fouts
wil...@wehi.edu.au (John Wilkins) writes:
> pz <my...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <Bz6j8.12452$Vx1.9...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> > "Aron-Ra" <ilc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > The conversation went on for about an hour. Everything I had to say just
> > > seemed to bounce off their smiling mannequin-like faces. They blocked it
> > > all out and learned nothing from the encounter. Such is the power of faith.
> >
> > An HOUR?
> >
> > So what did you learn from the encounter?
>
> That watching missionaries squirm is more entertaining than an episode
> of Friends?
root canal is more entertaining than an episode of friends.
johns
news:1f8xbrb.kzozgmvpreqhN%wil...@wehi.edu.au...
> pz <my...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > In article
<Bz6j8.12452$Vx1.9...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> > "Aron-Ra" <ilc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > The conversation went on for about an hour.
> >
> > An HOUR?
> >
> > So what did you learn from the encounter?
>
> That watching missionaries squirm is more entertaining than an
episode
> of Friends?
> --
> John Wilkins
> Occasionally having fun for over 46 years...
> I am nothing like this - no, really:
> <http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame17.html>
>
Yes, but at least with Friends you get a bathroom break.
--
JCS
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer
god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all
the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss
yours."
- Stephen Roberts
Aron-Ra
> In article <pan.2002.03.11.11....@yahoo.com>,
> Bill Hudson <huds...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:00:48 -0800, Rubystars wrote:
> >
> > > And to think I usually just shut the door on them.
> > >
> > > -Rubystars
> >
> > back when I was young and rude, I would tend to say things like "We're
> > satanists, and we need a volunteer for our human sacrifice rites. Would
> > you like to help us out?"
[Aron-Ra waxing nostalgic]
Back when I still ran my tattoo shop with the werewolf logo and rode with a
scooter club under the same colors, I had hair down to my belt covering a
few large tattoos. And I used to fight in armored melees that were
something like a medieval fair, but not for tourists.
This was brutal, members only competition with solid wooden weapons and
hundreds of competitors.
It was fun than a brawl in hockey gear.
In a decade of such combat, I had sent a half-dozen men to the
emergency room and knocked another half-dozen out cold. These
things weren't supposed to happen just like cars weren't
supposed to crash at NASCAR.
Aaaah. The good ol' days.
But there wasn't just combat to that life. There were also
equally radical social events.
One day I was getting ready to appear at a huge private feast
being held by some pagan friends of mine.
This was the kind of event for which you dressed to the hilt and
wore your real steel. This was also one of very few such
gatherings to be held inside city limits!
I wanted to impress these heathens and I had all the gear.
I had made an evil-looking horned helmet wrapped in fur and my
arms wore bracers of black studded leather armor. I had lots of
grotesque biker and pagan jewelry and both ears were pierced
multiple times and adorned with long chains. I wore black eye-
liner (it was the eighties) and the large hides of several dead
animals including a pair of ragged llama-hair boots with leather
cross-straps and a road-kill cat I'd skinned myself (and kept
its extremities). Under it all, but still visible was my chain
mail shirt and WWF style studded leather girdle, on which I had
hung my foot-long bullock dagger, my Viking longsword and my
cherished bearded-axe.
I am not a small man. I've always been strong and in good shape
and that day I looked a lot like Saber-Tooth in the X-Men
movie.
I had just picked-up my huge black rat, Oagie
and put him on my shoulder, ready to go.
As I reached for the doorknob, I heard a knock.
In an instant, the door was open to four Jehovah's Witnesses.
There I was, Conan the heavy metal Road Warrior
with horns on my head and vermin in my hair
facing down three shuddering little old ladies and one
attractive young woman.
I glowered at them with a low brow and a clenched jaw
(this was just too good to ruin with civility!)
and the young woman forced herself to composure,
"We're here to tell you about your part in God's plan", she
said.
Maintaining my stoic squint, I replied in calm breathy baritone,
"Believe me....I am the LAST person you want to talk to".
The old biddies were white-faced with genuine horror.
I continued to look trespassed and intruded upon,
but inside I was lovin' this.
Very cordially, the girl ( I think secretly smiling? )
nodded and said, "I'm sorry to have bothered you"
and they left...hurriedly.
I couldn't imagine an attractive woman of such constitution
staying in that company long and I could see in her eyes
that she enjoyed their reactions as much as I did!
Aron-Ra
>
John Wilkins
RHertz
> We have churches every two blocks around here.. I'll have no trouble
finding
> one if I want it. I don't need the door to door approach. lol
I'm glad they haven't started using telemarketing. That would REALLY be
irritating! Ooops - I hope I haven't given them any ideas!!!
RHertz
"Bill Hudson" <huds...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.03.11.11....@yahoo.com...
I'd be careful with that, especially if you live in the southern U.S.! I
was watching a "NBC Dateline" the other night in which a local prosecutor
assisted by some "experts" on 'Satanic cults" managed to get an entire
family (by the name of Kerr), and the local sheriff, locked up on murder
charges based on the coerced confession of a seven year-old boy. The boy
was essentially tricked into making up a very wild story about a satanic
cult run by the Kerrs in which babies were sacrificed, and a young woman,
who had been missing for two years, was murdered. Armed with this
"confession" the prosecution "team" went on to coerce confessions from two
of the Kerr family members, which resulted in the arrest of the rest of the
family, as well as the deputy sheriff of the town, who had been working on
the case of the missing woman. The "team" then threatened to pursue the
rest of the sheriff's office. Meanwhile, the case got tremendous media
attention, and half the town came forward with alleged 'evidence' (all of
which was later found to be rumor, gossip, or just plain bogus.)
That was enough for the town council. They called the state capital, and
asked for intervention from the Attorney General's office. The AG sent a
state prosecutor, who asked to see the physical evidence that had been
collected from an extensive and well-publicized search of the Kerr family's
backwoods home. There wasn't any.
When the state prosecutor asked why no corroborative physical evidence had
been found, the "team" responded that these were "master satanists" and the
lack of evidence PROVED that they were guilty! When the statements by the
boy and the two Kerr family members were examined, clear evidence of
coercion was found, and the statements were wildly self-contradictory.
There was also considerable evidence of the innocence of those accused. (For
example, many of the Kerr family were truck drivers, and logbooks, receipts,
bills of lading, etc. all proved they were well out of town on the date of
the woman's disappearence.) The "team" was soon off the case, and the state
prosecutor felt obliged to make a clear public statement exonerating the
sheriff and the Kerr family. They had already spent quite a long time in
jail. Nonetheless, the reputations of the Kerr Family, and the sherriff
have been completely ruined, and much of the town still believes there is a
big coverup in progress. The boy, now in his late teens, has completely
recanted his statements, as have the two Kerr family members.
Where did this happen? Gilmer, Texas. Somethings can only happen in Texas.
At least the story had more or less a happy ending, except that the missing
woman is still missing. The Kerr family and the Sherriff can't sue because
the prosecutor was acting on the state's behalf and is immune, even in the
case of such tremndous misconduct. He can't be fired: he has returned to
the private practice of law.
Apparently, where you find large concentrations of fundamentalist
Christians, you also frequently find cases of "Satanic Panic". There are
three young men in Arkansas doing either life or facing the death penalty
because of coerced confessions about alleged involvement in satanic cults,
and the murder of three boys that may have been performed by someone else.
http://www.wm3.org/
pz
wil...@wehi.edu.au (John Wilkins) wrote:
> pz <my...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <pan.2002.03.11.13....@yahoo.com>,
> > Bill Hudson <huds...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:26:43 -0800, pz wrote:
> > >
> > > > In article <pan.2002.03.11.11....@yahoo.com>,
> > > > Bill Hudson <huds...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:00:48 -0800, Rubystars wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > And to think I usually just shut the door on them.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > -Rubystars
> > > >>
> > > >> back when I was young and rude, I would tend to say things like "We're
> > > >> satanists, and we need a volunteer for our human sacrifice rites. Would
> > > >> you like to help us out?"
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > > Or if she was cute, you could always invite her to join in the fertility
> > > > rituals.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I never got the cute young female variety. I always get the male senior
> > > citizens in groups of two or three.
> > >
> >
> > Hmmm. I always got the old matron accompanied by the younger,
> > virginal-looking lady. Must have been a sect difference.
>
> Sectual dimorphism?
I think it was an attempt at sectual reproduction, but all attempts at
sectual intercourse were rebuffed, no doubt as a consequence of sectual
selection.
--
pz
Tracy P. Hamilton
Yeah, I hate it when that happens! [old Saturday Night Live bit]
Tracy P. Hamilton
Alan Morgan
"Thank goodness, we need a virgin".
Alan
--
Defendit numerus
RHertz
Deomorto
> news:Bz6j8.12452$Vx1.9...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > Last night, three canvassing missionaries came to my door with a series of
> > questions for me.
I have learned that the only thing to do with these door to door types
is to gently, but firmly, tell them that I am not interested and wish
them luck. If they try "just one thing" I politely repeat myself.
In only one case have I had to move beyond that to "Please leave my
property, now."
They are not there to discuss anything - I have had many illuminating
and interesting discussions with religious people on a variety of
subjects but in those cases we were both there to listen and discuss -
these door to door zealots are only interested in what they have to
say thus nothing comes of it except for a colder house and a cramp
from holding the door open.
Not worth it.
John Wilkins
bugeye
Well.... I think you have to be a special kind of fanatic to go door to door
in the first place.
bugeye
"Marty Fouts" <usene...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:uzo1e4...@usa.net...
I've had a few root canals.. never watched friends. Never ran an auger up my
nose ether, come to think of it.
bugeye
"RHertz" <RHer...@cox.rr.com> wrote in message
news:81bj8.27573$y65.5...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
There are two Pentacostal churches here that do just that.
bugeye
> --
> pz
>
>
Herb Huston
Deomorto <deom...@my-deja.com> wrote:
}"Aron-Ra" <ilc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
}> news:Bz6j8.12452$Vx1.9...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
}> > Last night, three canvassing missionaries came to my door with a series of
}> > questions for me.
}
}I have learned that the only thing to do with these door to door types
}is to gently, but firmly, tell them that I am not interested and wish
}them luck. If they try "just one thing" I politely repeat myself.
}
}In only one case have I had to move beyond that to "Please leave my
}property, now."
"Kennelmaster, release the hounds!"
--
-- Herb Huston
-- hus...@radix.net
-- http://www.radix.net/~huston
Pat James
(in message <pan.2002.03.11.11....@yahoo.com>):
> On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:00:48 -0800, Rubystars wrote:
>
>> And to think I usually just shut the door on them.
>>
>> -Rubystars
>
> back when I was young and rude, I would tend to say things like "We're
> satanists, and we need a volunteer for our human sacrifice rites. Would
> you like to help us out?"
>
my three methods of getting rid of door-to-door fundies:
1 I used to have a 55-60 kilo German shephard; he was possibly the most
useless dog who ever walked, he thought everyone was his friend, and he liked
nothing more than to jump up on a new friend and lick his face. The average
fundie tended not to know that, and would depart at roughly Mach Three when
the dog came down the driveway...
2 at one point I lived in a house which had the numerals '3' and '6' for the
street address. Any fundie who trusted in the Lord's protection long enough
for me to come and chain up the dog would be asked if three sixes had any
meaning for him. That got rid of mostof the rest.
3 I had a list of minor errors in the Bible printed up (one of the perks of
working in a company which prints newspapers and magazines is that you can do
'test' runs and print up all kinds of things, so long as you use spoils to do
it...) and I'd press that list into their hot little hands.
After a while I stopped getting visits from fundies, and even the Mormons
gave up. I think it was after I added some errors found in the Book of Mormon
to the list.
--
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Andy Groves
> In article <Bz6j8.12452$Vx1.9...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> "Aron-Ra" <ilc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > The conversation went on for about an hour. Everything I had to say just
> > seemed to bounce off their smiling mannequin-like faces. They blocked it
> > all out and learned nothing from the encounter. Such is the power of faith.
>
> An HOUR?
>
> So what did you learn from the encounter?
Shoot first and ask questions later?
Andy
Dick C
was well posted with signs saying no soliciting. So one day as I was
walking down a hallway I came across a couple of drive-by fundies.
I politely told them that we did not allow sales people. They responded
that they were not sales people, but were telling people about the
good news of god. I said that they were just selling their religion
just like a fuller brush man sells his brushes.
they left.
--
Dick #1349
People think that libraries are safe places, but they're not,
they have ideas.
email: crav...@msn.net
Aron-Ra
> > back when I was young and rude, I would tend to say things like "We're
> > satanists, and we need a volunteer for our human sacrifice rites. Would
> > you like to help us out?"
> >
>
> I'd be careful with that, especially if you live in the southern U.S.!
(snip)
> Where did this happen? Gilmer, Texas. Somethings can only happen in
Texas.
(snip II)
> Apparently, where you find large concentrations of fundamentalist
> Christians, you also frequently find cases of "Satanic Panic". There are
> three young men in Arkansas doing either life or facing the death penalty
> because of coerced confessions about alleged involvement in satanic cults,
> and the murder of three boys that may have been performed by someone else.
Oh crap. And I was wearing my Miskatonic University tee-shirt when they
showed up.
That's a black shirt with a black book wearing a red baphumet and lying
between two red candles.
Iiiiiim in trouble.
Aron-Ra
Rubystars
It'd be too easy to hang up on them that way.
-Rubystars
Andy Groves
> "Aron-Ra" <ilc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Bz6j8.12452$Vx1.9...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > Last night, three canvassing missionaries came to my door with a series of
> > The conversation went on for about an hour. Everything I had to say just
> > seemed to bounce off their smiling mannequin-like faces. They blocked it
> > all out and learned nothing from the encounter. Such is the power of
> faith.
>
> they dont sound like my crew.
That's funny, because you display a rather similar attitude to them. A
large number of people have attempted to educate you about the
evidence for evolution, why it is compatible with Christian faith, and
why atheism is compatible with socially responsible behaviour. Your
responses have done you no credit at all.
Andy
Rubystars
"Nathan Urban" <nur...@crib.corepower.com> wrote in
> (Side question: why do these guys always work in teams? Some kind of
> psychological effect? Or so that one guy can jump in if another guy's
> doctrine isn't convincing?
This is just speculation but I think they do it for safety reasons.
Especially the women.
-Rubystars
Ken Cope
Ask politely if they wouldn't mind being placed on hold.
>-Rubystars
>
>
Rubystars
"Ken Cope" <pin...@ozcot.com> wrote in message
news:a6juc...@drn.newsguy.com...
Then you can take some headphones and a walkman and pump some music into the
phone. :) The worse the lyrics, the better.
-Rubystars
bugeye
"Rubystars" <windst...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a6jusc$f4d94$6...@ID-63471.news.dfncis.de...
also be amusing.
I just use caller id. "Private" can't call me, "unknown" gets ignored.
> -Rubystars
>
>
>
>
Greg
Back in my religious days, I was involved with the Navigators. We
normally went out in pairs for training purposes. The first few times,
the trainee watched and listened. After that, the trainee would do the
presentation with the trainer there to correct any mistakes or handle
difficult questions.
There was also the belief that when two or more are gathered in the
name of Jesus, their prayers would be answered.
--
Greg
Lawyer: You seem to have more than average intelligence for a man of
your background.
Witness: If I weren't under oath, I'd return the compliment.
Nantko Schanssema
>Years ago, I worked as a maintenance man in an apartment complex, it
>was well posted with signs saying no soliciting. So one day as I was
>walking down a hallway I came across a couple of drive-by fundies.
>I politely told them that we did not allow sales people. They responded
>that they were not sales people, but were telling people about the
>good news of god. I said that they were just selling their religion
>just like a fuller brush man sells his brushes.
>they left.
A Sunday quite a few years ago I got two JW's of the male persuasion
at my door. As it was, I had just moved in, and could use a helping
hand in bolting bookshelves to the wall. I invited them in, offered
coffee (they accepted), offered ciggies (they refused) and asked them
to hold a shelf while I fastened the bolts, which they did while we
discussed whether I was one of the 144.000. After two shelves they
suddenly remembered an appointment.
Normally I point out that they're wasting both their time and mine.
regards,
Nantko
--
Yield to temptation; it may not pass your way again.
(Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love)
Robert Carnegie
> Bill Hudson wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:00:48 -0800, Rubystars wrote:
> >
> > > And to think I usually just shut the door on them.
> > >
> > > -Rubystars
> >
> > satanists, and we need a volunteer for our human sacrifice rites. Would
> > you like to help us out?"
>
> mid-Saturday-morning shower by a pair of elderly female JW's.
> He opened the door a crack and hid behind it, until he
> realized what they were saying. In the true atheist
> tradition of hospitality, he threw open the door and
> invited them in so he could hear more.
>
> I can only envy his nerve.
>
> Chris
I'm not sure I get it...did he get dressed before he opened the door?
Robert Carnegie
> someone to sit in a chair that had never seen a chair before.
> "I can prove that we're apes"
> "How would you get them to sit in that chair?"
> "Would you like to hear how I can prove it?"
> "If they've never seen a chair, how would get them to sit in it?"
As at, for instance, the chimps' tea-party at the zoo?
Gee, you sit in the chair yourself first. Then they ape you.
That's, like, how they got the name "ape" ;-)
> The conversation went on for about an hour. Everything I had
> to say just seemed to bounce off their smiling mannequin-like
> faces. They blocked it all out and learned nothing from the
> encounter. Such is the power of faith.
Instructive.
Looking at it the other way around, I suppose that _they_ did
not convince _you_ of anything that they were pushing because
you consider that those of your views which are contrary to
theirs are better attested - for instance, by scientific
evidence and reliable reports - than their views are.
And, for instance, I'd suppose that you'd presume that
you've inquired into some of these matters more deeply
than these folks have done - unless they could persuade
you otherwise.
_They_ apparently learned nothing from _you_ because they
hadn't come prepared to learn.
But they might have had a poor opinion of your sources of
authority, either - albeit without justification. There's
one Christian point of view, which I at one time didn't
absolutely disavow, that the mental processes of non-Christians
just aren't reliable, because God lets the Devil do what he
likes to their minds. So the population of the world is
divided into Christians and lunatics, and the arguments
of the latter group shouldn't be taken seriously ;-)
The world looked at this way looks oddly different to what
most folks see around them, just as Einstein's relativity
and quantum theory do, but I can testify that it is possible
to believe in it, for a while...
There's also the point of view that this origins stuff isn't
important to religion, anyway. But where's the fun in that :-)
Robert Carnegie
now Apostate Pentecostalist
Chris Thompson
>
> "Marty Fouts" <usene...@usa.net> wrote in message
> news:uzo1e4...@usa.net...
> >
> > wil...@wehi.edu.au (John Wilkins) writes:
> >
> > > pz <my...@mac.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > In article <Bz6j8.12452$Vx1.9...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> > > > "Aron-Ra" <ilc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > [snip]
snip
> > > >
> > > > So what did you learn from the encounter?
> > >
> > > That watching missionaries squirm is more entertaining than an episode
> > > of Friends?
> >
> > root canal is more entertaining than an episode of friends.
> >
> >
>
> I've had a few root canals.. never watched friends. Never ran an auger up my
> nose ether, come to think of it.
I have also had root canals. Never the auger. I did drop boiling oil
onto my foot once- got to see a third degree burn up close.
It is a toss-up between that and the missionary thing.
But to tell the truth, I would spend days, not hours, with the
missionaries to avoid another aphtous sore.
Chris
Mr. Vega
Tell them you're busy, but if they give you their home phone number, you'll
call them later in the evening.
When they don't tell you, say "Oh... so you don't like strangers calling
you at home, eh?"
(stolen from Seinfeld episode.)
>
> >-Rubystars
> >
> >
Seppo Pietikäinen
>foo.d...@msn.com (Dick C):
>
>>Years ago, I worked as a maintenance man in an apartment complex, it
>>was well posted with signs saying no soliciting. So one day as I was
>>walking down a hallway I came across a couple of drive-by fundies.
>>I politely told them that we did not allow sales people. They responded
>>that they were not sales people, but were telling people about the
>>good news of god. I said that they were just selling their religion
>>just like a fuller brush man sells his brushes.
>>they left.
>>
>
>A Sunday quite a few years ago I got two JW's of the male persuasion
>at my door. As it was, I had just moved in, and could use a helping
>hand in bolting bookshelves to the wall. I invited them in, offered
>coffee (they accepted), offered ciggies (they refused) and asked them
>to hold a shelf while I fastened the bolts, which they did while we
>discussed whether I was one of the 144.000. After two shelves they
>suddenly remembered an appointment.
>
>Normally I point out that they're wasting both their time and mine.
>
>regards,
>Nantko
>
Yeah, but at some stage you're going to run out of bookshelves to install...
(And, you're going to run out of common courtesy...)
I've found out that the simplest working strategy to get rid of pests
of any
persuation is to simply be rude enough and say: I'm not interested <bang>.
Second time: Sorry, my god beats your god <bang>
Third time: Is this some more religious s**t, again? <bang>
I haven't been bothered by the creeps for something like two years now...
(I have some strange marking around my door, though :-D )
Seppo P.
Ann Broomhead
> questions for me.
> The conversation went on for about an hour.
>
> Aron-Ra
The good news is that no one from that sect will ever, ever come back.
Pfusand
That which does not destroy us
has made its last mistake.
-- Unspoken motto of the pantope crew
Ann Broomhead
(snip)
> I had made an evil-looking horned helmet wrapped in fur and my
> arms wore bracers of black studded leather armor. I had lots of
> grotesque biker and pagan jewelry and both ears were pierced
> multiple times and adorned with long chains. I wore black eye-
> liner (it was the eighties) and the large hides of several dead
> animals including a pair of ragged llama-hair boots with leather
> cross-straps and a road-kill cat I'd skinned myself (and kept
> its extremities). Under it all, but still visible was my chain
> mail shirt and WWF style studded leather girdle, on which I had
> hung my foot-long bullock dagger, my Viking longsword and my
> cherished bearded-axe.
>
> I am not a small man. I've always been strong and in good shape
> and that day I looked a lot like Saber-Tooth in the X-Men
> movie.
Excellent! You must have looked like Fafhrd in that presentation at
the 1972 Worldcon Masquerade. Permit me to repeat the final
punchline.
Gay Mouser (Jerry Jacks, in purple velvet): Come, Fafhrd. Bring your
mighty weapon -- and your sword. (Flounces off stage.)
Dave P
"Aron-Ra" <ilc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BQaj8.12876$Vx1.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> > In article <pan.2002.03.11.11....@yahoo.com>,
> > Bill Hudson <huds...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:00:48 -0800, Rubystars wrote:
> > >
> > > > And to think I usually just shut the door on them.
> > > >
> > > > -Rubystars
> > >
> > > back when I was young and rude, I would tend to say things like "We're
> > > satanists, and we need a volunteer for our human sacrifice rites.
Would
> > > you like to help us out?"
>
>
> Back when I still ran my tattoo shop with the werewolf logo and rode with
a
> scooter club under the same colors, I had hair down to my belt covering a
> few large tattoos. And I used to fight in armored melees that were
> something like a medieval fair, but not for tourists.
> This was brutal, members only competition with solid wooden weapons and
> hundreds of competitors.
>
> It was fun than a brawl in hockey gear.
>
> In a decade of such combat, I had sent a half-dozen men to the
> emergency room and knocked another half-dozen out cold. These
> things weren't supposed to happen just like cars weren't
> supposed to crash at NASCAR.
> Aaaah. The good ol' days.
>
> But there wasn't just combat to that life. There were also
> equally radical social events.
> One day I was getting ready to appear at a huge private feast
> being held by some pagan friends of mine.
> This was the kind of event for which you dressed to the hilt and
> wore your real steel. This was also one of very few such
> gatherings to be held inside city limits!
>
> I wanted to impress these heathens and I had all the gear.
>
> I had made an evil-looking horned helmet wrapped in fur and my
> arms wore bracers of black studded leather armor. I had lots of
> grotesque biker and pagan jewelry and both ears were pierced
> multiple times and adorned with long chains. I wore black eye-
> liner (it was the eighties) and the large hides of several dead
> animals including a pair of ragged llama-hair boots with leather
> cross-straps and a road-kill cat I'd skinned myself (and kept
> its extremities). Under it all, but still visible was my chain
> mail shirt and WWF style studded leather girdle, on which I had
> hung my foot-long bullock dagger, my Viking longsword and my
> cherished bearded-axe.
>
> I am not a small man. I've always been strong and in good shape
> and that day I looked a lot like Saber-Tooth in the X-Men
> movie.
>
> and put him on my shoulder, ready to go.
>
> As I reached for the doorknob, I heard a knock.
> In an instant, the door was open to four Jehovah's Witnesses.
>
> There I was, Conan the heavy metal Road Warrior
> with horns on my head and vermin in my hair
> facing down three shuddering little old ladies and one
> attractive young woman.
>
> I glowered at them with a low brow and a clenched jaw
> (this was just too good to ruin with civility!)
> and the young woman forced herself to composure,
> "We're here to tell you about your part in God's plan", she
> said.
>
> Maintaining my stoic squint, I replied in calm breathy baritone,
> "Believe me....I am the LAST person you want to talk to".
>
> The old biddies were white-faced with genuine horror.
>
> I continued to look trespassed and intruded upon,
> but inside I was lovin' this.
>
> Very cordially, the girl ( I think secretly smiling? )
> nodded and said, "I'm sorry to have bothered you"
> and they left...hurriedly.
>
> I couldn't imagine an attractive woman of such constitution
> staying in that company long and I could see in her eyes
> that she enjoyed their reactions as much as I did!
If this is true, then your city/country is weird. Us aussies dont run from
funny looking "mean" people like youself as back then. We also have the
"God Squad" bikie gang here in auz. In fact you might have heard of the
bikie group "the Tribe of Judah." , from Texas, I think. I dont know about
these so - called door knockers you talk about, they just sound too sissy.
>
> Aron-Ra
>
> >
>
RHertz
"Nathan Urban" <nur...@crib.corepower.com> wrote in message
news:a6jpq9$uqk$1...@crib.corepower.com...
> (Side question: why do these guys always work in teams? Some kind of
> psychological effect? Or so that one guy can jump in if another guy's
> doctrine isn't convincing?
Could be a "good cop - bad cop" thing. As in one of them says "You know,
unless you become a Christian, you're gonna rot in hell for eternity!" and
then the other says "Remember - God is Love!"
Cary Kittrell
<>
<
<In article <pan.2002.03.11.13....@yahoo.com>,
< Bill Hudson <huds...@yahoo.com> wrote:
<
{...}
<>
<> I never got the cute young female variety. I always get the male senior
<> citizens in groups of two or three.
<>
<
<Hmmm. I always got the old matron accompanied by the younger,
<virginal-looking lady. Must have been a sect difference.
Really? Maybe they were looking for a third for Triune Goddess?
-- cary
pz
ca...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
Do you think they mistook me for the hag/crone/ancient?
--
pz
Dana Tweedy
"Aron-Ra" <ilc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BQaj8.12876$Vx1.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> pz <my...@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:myers-C6D369....@laurel.tc.umn.edu...
> > Bill Hudson <huds...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:00:48 -0800, Rubystars wrote:
> > >
> > > > And to think I usually just shut the door on them.
> > > >
> > > > -Rubystars
> > >
> > > back when I was young and rude, I would tend to say things like "We're
> > > satanists, and we need a volunteer for our human sacrifice rites.
Would
> > > you like to help us out?"
>
> [Aron-Ra waxing nostalgic]
>
> Back when I still ran my tattoo shop with the werewolf logo and rode with
a
> scooter club under the same colors, I had hair down to my belt covering a
> few large tattoos. And I used to fight in armored melees that were
> something like a medieval fair, but not for tourists.
> This was brutal, members only competition with solid wooden weapons and
> hundreds of competitors.
>
I take it you were SCA? Or maybe Tuchx?
DJT
Cary Kittrell
<foo.d...@msn.com (Dick C):
<
<>Years ago, I worked as a maintenance man in an apartment complex, it
<>was well posted with signs saying no soliciting. So one day as I was
<>walking down a hallway I came across a couple of drive-by fundies.
<>I politely told them that we did not allow sales people. They responded
<>that they were not sales people, but were telling people about the
<>good news of god. I said that they were just selling their religion
<>just like a fuller brush man sells his brushes.
<>they left.
<
<A Sunday quite a few years ago I got two JW's of the male persuasion
<at my door. As it was, I had just moved in, and could use a helping
<hand in bolting bookshelves to the wall. I invited them in, offered
<coffee (they accepted), offered ciggies (they refused) and asked them
<to hold a shelf while I fastened the bolts, which they did while we
<discussed whether I was one of the 144.000. After two shelves they
<suddenly remembered an appointment.
<
<Normally I point out that they're wasting both their time and mine.
<
You know ... if any door-to-door veterans have a knack for writing and a sense
of whimsy -- hey, it could happen, given the sheer numbers of evangelicals out
there -- there's a GREAT book in here somewhere. I mean, just look
at the wonderful stories that have emerged during this one short thread.
All we're waiting for is sort kind of a fundamentalist P.J. O'Rourke.
-- cary
Richard Uhrich
Ken Cope wrote:
My favorite response to telemarketers is to just quietly lay the phone
down. Must remember to hang up after 10 minutes or so.
Richard
>
>
>>-Rubystars
>>
>>
>>
>
Chris Thompson
Naked as the day he was born.
Wade Hines
And I didn't notice if the revivalists were Omnians. Did
they have pamplets?
Sherilyn
pz <my...@mac.com> wrote:
>In article <1f8xg4a.12toj1y1a9ehjuN%wil...@wehi.edu.au>,
> wil...@wehi.edu.au (John Wilkins) wrote:
>
>> pz <my...@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>> > In article <pan.2002.03.11.13....@yahoo.com>,
>> > Bill Hudson <huds...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > > In article <pan.2002.03.11.11....@yahoo.com>,
>> > > > Bill Hudson <huds...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:00:48 -0800, Rubystars wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >> > And to think I usually just shut the door on them.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > -Rubystars
>> > > >>
>> > > >> back when I was young and rude, I would tend to say things like "We're
>> > > >> satanists, and we need a volunteer for our human sacrifice rites. Would
>> > > >> you like to help us out?"
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > > rituals.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > I never got the cute young female variety. I always get the male senior
>> > > citizens in groups of two or three.
>> > >
>> >
>> > Hmmm. I always got the old matron accompanied by the younger,
>> > virginal-looking lady. Must have been a sect difference.
>>
>
>I think it was an attempt at sectual reproduction, but all attempts at
>sectual intercourse were rebuffed, no doubt as a consequence of sectual
>selection.
Watch out, there's a Harter about.
--
Sherilyn
Morgoth's Cat
scribed:
>
>"Bill Hudson" <huds...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:pan.2002.03.11.11....@yahoo.com...
>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:00:48 -0800, Rubystars wrote:
>>
>> > And to think I usually just shut the door on them.
>> >
>> > -Rubystars
>>
>> back when I was young and rude, I would tend to say things like "We're
>> satanists, and we need a volunteer for our human sacrifice rites. Would
>> you like to help us out?"
>>
>
>I'd be careful with that, especially if you live in the southern U.S.! I
>was watching a "NBC Dateline" the other night in which a local prosecutor
>assisted by some "experts" on 'Satanic cults" managed to get an entire
>family (by the name of Kerr), and the local sheriff, locked up on murder
>charges based on the coerced confession of a seven year-old boy. The boy
>was essentially tricked into making up a very wild story about a satanic
>cult run by the Kerrs in which babies were sacrificed, and a young woman,
>who had been missing for two years, was murdered. Armed with this
>"confession" the prosecution "team" went on to coerce confessions from two
>of the Kerr family members, which resulted in the arrest of the rest of the
>family, as well as the deputy sheriff of the town, who had been working on
>the case of the missing woman. The "team" then threatened to pursue the
>rest of the sheriff's office. Meanwhile, the case got tremendous media
>attention, and half the town came forward with alleged 'evidence' (all of
>which was later found to be rumor, gossip, or just plain bogus.)
>
>That was enough for the town council. They called the state capital, and
>asked for intervention from the Attorney General's office. The AG sent a
>state prosecutor, who asked to see the physical evidence that had been
>collected from an extensive and well-publicized search of the Kerr family's
>backwoods home. There wasn't any.
>
>When the state prosecutor asked why no corroborative physical evidence had
>been found, the "team" responded that these were "master satanists" and the
>lack of evidence PROVED that they were guilty! When the statements by the
>boy and the two Kerr family members were examined, clear evidence of
>coercion was found, and the statements were wildly self-contradictory.
>There was also considerable evidence of the innocence of those accused. (For
>example, many of the Kerr family were truck drivers, and logbooks, receipts,
>bills of lading, etc. all proved they were well out of town on the date of
>the woman's disappearence.) The "team" was soon off the case, and the state
>prosecutor felt obliged to make a clear public statement exonerating the
>sheriff and the Kerr family. They had already spent quite a long time in
>jail. Nonetheless, the reputations of the Kerr Family, and the sherriff
>have been completely ruined, and much of the town still believes there is a
>big coverup in progress. The boy, now in his late teens, has completely
>recanted his statements, as have the two Kerr family members.
>
>Where did this happen? Gilmer, Texas. Somethings can only happen in Texas.
>At least the story had more or less a happy ending, except that the missing
>woman is still missing. The Kerr family and the Sherriff can't sue because
>the prosecutor was acting on the state's behalf and is immune, even in the
>case of such tremndous misconduct. He can't be fired: he has returned to
>the private practice of law.
Shades of the McMartin rumpus eh?
>Apparently, where you find large concentrations of fundamentalist
>Christians, you also frequently find cases of "Satanic Panic". There are
>three young men in Arkansas doing either life or facing the death penalty
>because of coerced confessions about alleged involvement in satanic cults,
>and the murder of three boys that may have been performed by someone else.
>http://www.wm3.org/
>
>
That's because they have a pseudo-manchean view of "if it ain't
christian, it's satanist", which they apply to everything and everyone
that isn't their particular cult..just today some idiot wrote into the
Daily Mail (national newspaper here in the UK) claiming that 666
represented "6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons in carbon", and
thus life was inherently satanic...
Best Regards,
Dave
morgoth AT valinor DOT freeserve DOT co DOT uk * www.veilofnight.net
Supernovae & Creationists: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/supernova/
Kharne - graphical AD&D-based RPG for Windows http://www.kharne.net
Chris Harveaux
gg...@mail.com (Greg) wrote:
> "Rubystars" <windst...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:<a6js6f$ekpn5$6...@ID-63471.news.dfncis.de>...
> > "Nathan Urban" <nur...@crib.corepower.com> wrote in
> > > (Side question: why do these guys always work in teams? Some kind of
> > > psychological effect? Or so that one guy can jump in if another guy's
> > > doctrine isn't convincing?
> >
> > This is just speculation but I think they do it for safety reasons.
> > Especially the women.
> >
> > -Rubystars
>
> Back in my religious days, I was involved with the Navigators. We
> normally went out in pairs for training purposes. The first few times,
> the trainee watched and listened. After that, the trainee would do the
> presentation with the trainer there to correct any mistakes or handle
> difficult questions.
>
> There was also the belief that when two or more are gathered in the
> name of Jesus, their prayers would be answered.
Ah, that would explain it. I tend to invite the local JWs in since I
get bored and they are free entertainment. I have had them arguing
between themselves several times over things like whether morality is
constant or changes over time and what morality is, whether killing in
God's name is okay, etc... For a while it was the "trainer" and a new
person each time. Now when there are two of them they won't come in but
just leave their little booklets. But when it is just the "trainer" he
will gladly come in. I was beginning to wonder.
Chris
--
--
www.oaksarmoury.com
Louann Miller
mor...@REMOVETHISwytchcraft.REMOVETHISASWELLnet (Morgoth's Cat)
wrote:
>That's because they have a pseudo-manchean view of "if it ain't
>christian, it's satanist", which they apply to everything and everyone
>that isn't their particular cult..just today some idiot wrote into the
>Daily Mail (national newspaper here in the UK) claiming that 666
>represented "6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons in carbon", and
>thus life was inherently satanic...
>
>Best Regards,
>Dave
Any chance of that being a parody? We all know how hard it can be to
tell.
Thomas Griffin
1.
Once I just opened the door, they handed me their pocket Bible and I handed
them a pamphlet detailing specific instances of self contradiction within the
Bible.
2.
Another time two young men came to the door. I asked them how all the different
races came from just Adam and Eve and what race they thought Adam and Eve were.
They replied that God originally created only one race and that later on he
created the darker races to identify them as morally "bad".
The fact that Christians could be so racist did not surprise me in the least,
but
I gave a puzzled look to the one young man who was Filipino with rather dark
skin and asked "So, you're evil?"
At this point their rational minds seemed to peek through the fog of faith and
they
both laughed, realizing how silly the whole idea was. At this point their
supervisor came strolling up quickly assessed the situation and said "Well boys,
we better get going."
3. A third time a married couple and their daughter approached. They asked if I
wanted a Bible and I said "I prefer not to read sexist-racist propaganda".
He said, "This is the word of God. It's not sexist".
I could tell by their vacuous eyes and empty smiles that they were
fundamentalist, so
I correctly assumed they held sexist values. I asked "Do you think your wife and
daughter are equal to you and can they commune directly with God as you do?"
He replied, "Well no, we believe that women serve men as men serve God."
I responded, "So, your wife and daughter are second class citizens and you get
the final say?" I then looked at his daughter sympathetically and said "I
wouldn't want my dad to treat me that way." At this point they lost all their
pretentious smiles and left w/o saying good-bye.
4. This time I wasn't in the mood. I opened the door and before he could get
a word out I said, "Do you read the Bible?" "Why yes, I sure do?", he beamed.
"So you can read?", I queried. "Certainly", he replied. "Then I guess I
should infer that the only reason you walked right through my front gate with
the "No solicitors"
sign is that you're a selfish asshole."
Aron-Ra wrote:
> Last night, three canvassing missionaries came to my door with a series of
> questions for me.
>
> Do people go to church as much as they did five years ago?
> "I don't know. I guess so".
>
> Should the church be targeting old people, young people, or very young
> children?
> "Targeting?"
>
> Like marketing. You know, the ones who need the church most.
> "Need?"
>
> Yes. Who should be the target audience, who should the gospel be brought to
> most?
> "No one."
>
> You don't believe in the Bible?
> "No".
>
> Have you ever read it?
> "Yes".
>
> Then why don't you believe it?
> [gotta love that question]
>
> I answered with a lengthy explanation of numerous and various ancient myths
> predating everything they knew and how they were all immediately relevatant
> to the supposed validity of the Bible.
>
> They dismissed all that as if I hadn't said anything. "The Bible speaks of
> many prophesies. Why is it that all of these prophesies have come to pass?"
>
> I countered with Jesus' many promises to return before his desciples were
> dead.
> "But they're only dead in the flesh", they said.
>
> When I tried to inquire how Jesus' promise might still have meaning unless
> they're going to die in the spirit too, they all changed the subject in
> unison until I shut up and selected one of them to listen to.
>
> "We were made in the image of God. But what is God?"
> He smiled real big until I said, "an ape?"
>
> So you think we came from apes?
> "We *are* apes".
>
> With a snide smile, he asked "then where's you tail?"
> With a duplicate smile, I said "apes don't have tails".
>
> Of course the next thing I heard was, "If we came from apes, then why are
> there still apes?"
> And I said, "Dogs came from wolves and yet there are still wolves". And why
> shouldn't there be?
>
> Rather than answer that, they pulled out some parable about how to get
> someone to sit in a chair that had never seen a chair before.
> "I can prove that we're apes"
> "How would you get them to sit in that chair?"
> "Would you like to hear how I can prove it?"
> "If they've never seen a chair, how would get them to sit in it?"
>
> The conversation went on for about an hour. Everything I had to say just
> seemed to bounce off their smiling mannequin-like faces. They blocked it
> all out and learned nothing from the encounter. Such is the power of faith.
>
> Aron-Ra
Morgoth's Cat
scribed:
I've got the newspaper - I'll post the exact article later this
evening.
The Daily Mail also has a questions page, where people write in to
answer questions posted by other readers - some loon from Verwood,
which is also in Dorset (I live in Bournemouth, about 10 miles awy)
wrote in several weeks ago claiming that the usual bullshit about
kinds and lack of transitional fossils and so on...
Steve Jones had it right in a letter to the guardian - about the
government funding "lie-based" schools...
Fucking creationists...they're no better than holocaust deniers [1]
Best Regards,
Dave
[1] I've got two YECs as parents - I've a right to feel angry...
Andrew Glasgow
hus...@Radix.Net (Herb Huston) wrote:
> In article <cde9ed89.02031...@posting.google.com>,
> Deomorto <deom...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> }"Aron-Ra" <ilc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> }> news:Bz6j8.12452$Vx1.9...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> }> > Last night, three canvassing missionaries came to my door with a series
> }> > of
> }> > questions for me.
> }
> }I have learned that the only thing to do with these door to door types
> }is to gently, but firmly, tell them that I am not interested and wish
> }them luck. If they try "just one thing" I politely repeat myself.
> }
> }In only one case have I had to move beyond that to "Please leave my
> }property, now."
>
> "Kennelmaster, release the hounds!"
"Or what? You'll release the dogs, or the bees, or the dogs with bees
in their mouths so that when they bark they shoot bees at you?"
--
| Andrew Glasgow <amg39(at)cornell.edu> Note: address in header munged. |
| "We deal in the moral equivalent of black holes, where the normal laws of |
| right and wrong break down; beyond those metaphysical event horizons |
| there exist ... special circumstances" - Ian M. Banks, _Use Of Weapons_ |
Pat James
(in message <mhkj8.9437$P4.7...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>):
>
> "Rubystars" <windst...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:a6jusc$f4d94$6...@ID-63471.news.dfncis.de...
>>
>> "Ken Cope" <pin...@ozcot.com> wrote in message
>> news:a6juc...@drn.newsguy.com...
>>> In article <a6jrtl$evv7i$6...@ID-63471.news.dfncis.de>, "Rubystars" wrote>
>>>>
>>>> "RHertz" <RHer...@cox.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:81bj8.27573$y65.5...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>> We have churches every two blocks around here.. I'll have no
> trouble
>>>>> finding
>>>>>> one if I want it. I don't need the door to door approach. lol
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm glad they haven't started using telemarketing. That would REALLY
>> be
>>>>> irritating! Ooops - I hope I haven't given them any ideas!!!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It'd be too easy to hang up on them that way.
>>>
>>> Ask politely if they wouldn't mind being >placed on hold.
>>
>> Then you can take some headphones and a walkman and pump some music into
> the
>> phone. :) The worse the lyrics, the better.
>>
> Maybe Disturbed or System of a Down .. at high volume? King Crimson would
> also be amusing.
Jimi Hendrix' version of "The Star Spangled Banner" or just about anything by
Led Zep or the B-52s should do.
>
> I just use caller id. "Private" can't call me, "unknown" gets ignored.
that's cheating.
--
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Andy Groves
<snip>
> If this is true, then your city/country is weird. Us aussies dont run from
> funny looking "mean" people like youself as back then.
(python mode on)
Australia's a lovely land,
it's full of bonzer blokes.
Sheilas, beer, and no one's queer
except in Pommie jokes.
Australians are a lovely lot.
They're God's own chosen race.
And if they ever see a fairy Pom
they'll smash him in the face
Australians like dressing up
in skirts, and having fun.
And that's all we were doing
when the Vice Squad came along.
(python mode off).
Andy
bugeye
"Wade Hines" <wade....@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:Xns91CF7F0878C7...@207.172.3.55...
I think a Taoist missionary would be an interesting experiance.
Greg
except to interject when the younger got stuck. I talked with them and
my questions were cordial. The second time, my questions were harder
to answer so they didn't asked to come back.
Being a small town, I ran into one of them a couple of times. I smiled
and said a friendly hello, but he always gave me the strangest funny
looks.
--
Greg
There are still so many beautiful things to be said in C major.
--Sergei Prokofiev
David Jensen
ca...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote in
<a6lbji$6ca$1...@news.ccit.arizona.edu>:
>You know ... if any door-to-door veterans have a knack for writing and a sense
>of whimsy -- hey, it could happen, given the sheer numbers of evangelicals out
>there -- there's a GREAT book in here somewhere. I mean, just look
>at the wonderful stories that have emerged during this one short thread.
>All we're waiting for is sort kind of a fundamentalist P.J. O'Rourke.
Lack of imagination and the lack of a self-deprecating sense of humor
tends to limit the number of possible fundamentalist P.J. O'Rourkes.
John Wilkins
Michael G.
wrote:
>foo.d...@msn.com (Dick C):
>
>>Years ago, I worked as a maintenance man in an apartment complex, it
>>was well posted with signs saying no soliciting. So one day as I was
>>walking down a hallway I came across a couple of drive-by fundies.
>>I politely told them that we did not allow sales people. They responded
>>that they were not sales people, but were telling people about the
>>good news of god. I said that they were just selling their religion
>>just like a fuller brush man sells his brushes.
>>they left.
>
>A Sunday quite a few years ago I got two JW's of the male persuasion
>at my door. As it was, I had just moved in, and could use a helping
>hand in bolting bookshelves to the wall. I invited them in, offered
>coffee (they accepted), offered ciggies (they refused) and asked them
>to hold a shelf while I fastened the bolts, which they did while we
>discussed whether I was one of the 144.000. After two shelves they
>suddenly remembered an appointment.
God, I wish I could do this to telemarketers.
Fred the Red Shirt
> >At least the story had more or less a happy ending, except that the missing
> >woman is still missing. The Kerr family and the Sherriff can't sue because
> >the prosecutor was acting on the state's behalf and is immune, even in the
> >case of such tremndous misconduct. He can't be fired: he has returned to
> >the private practice of law.
>
> Shades of the McMartin rumpus eh?
>
Along those lines I find it noteworthy that the pricipal witness in
the Gilmer case, a young boy, today freely admits that his testimony
was all lies, and he knew it at the time. He said he as subjected
to physical abuse by a foster parent until he came up with lies
his interogators believed.
There is no indication, not even a hint of 'False Memory Syndrome.'
A number of folks posting about the McMartin case claimed that the
children were suffering from 'False Memory Syndrome.' I always
argued for a simpler explanation, that they were badgered and
threatened into lying.
My guess is that some of those children are old enough today to
_also_ come forward about how they were interogated and abused
by their interogators, both dispelling any lingering doubts
about Mr Bucky and the McMartins as well as shootin down the
False Memory Syndrome theory. I expect that they know and
remember the truth.
>
> That's because they have a pseudo-manchean view of "if it ain't
> christian, it's satanist", which they apply to everything and everyone
> that isn't their particular cult..just today some idiot wrote into the
> Daily Mail (national newspaper here in the UK) claiming that 666
> represented "6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons in carbon", and
> thus life was inherently satanic...
>
Cute
--
FF
Derek Vogt
mor...@REMOVETHISwytchcraft.REMOVETHISASWELLnet wrote on 3/12/02 12:43:
> ..just today some idiot wrote into the
> Daily Mail (national newspaper here in the UK) claiming that 666
> represented "6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons in carbon", and
> thus life was inherently satanic...
That's pretty neat; it also proves that there can be no such thing as carbon
14, thus no carbon 14 dating, thus no evolution! :D
RHertz
"Richard Uhrich" <uhr...@san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3C8E3182...@san.rr.com...
First, you have to say "I am very interested in your product! Please, tell
me all about it!"
That way, they start into their spiel, and will keep going until they
realize you've pulled a fast one. This technique keeps them on the phone
longer than mere silence. The longer they talk to you, the less time
they'll have for bothering someone else. Personally, anybody that comes up
"unknown name" on my caller ID does not get the courtsey of my answering the
phone. There will be a few people who I need to talk to, but they will
leave a message on my machine.
Telemarketing ought to be banned. It's an abuse of capitalism.
>
> Richard
>
> >
> >
> >>-Rubystars
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
Walter Bushell
> Bill Hudson wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:00:48 -0800, Rubystars wrote:
> >
> > > And to think I usually just shut the door on them.
> > >
> > > -Rubystars
> >
> > back when I was young and rude, I would tend to say things like "We're
> > satanists, and we need a volunteer for our human sacrifice rites. Would
> > you like to help us out?"
>
> An atheist acquaintance (many years ago) was pulled from a
> mid-Saturday-morning shower by a pair of elderly female JW's. He opened
> the door a crack and hid behind it, until he realized what they were
> saying. In the true atheist tradition of hospitality, he threw open the
> door and invited them in so he could hear more.
>
> I can only envy his nerve.
____> I heard one guy opened the door wrapped in a towel with a cat
draped over one arm and a jar of vasiline in the other hand. "Can't you
see I'm busy!"
:
:
:
Cue tape of cat in distress at high volume.
>
> Chris
Wade Hines
<<< snip >>>
> Telemarketing ought to be banned. It's an abuse of capitalism.
My brain reels in an apoplextic spin.
I've got "yes it's abuse" and "yes it's capitalism" and "yes
it ought to be banned" but I can't quite get the abuse to
be an abuse of capitalism.
Draccus
"Derek Vogt" <De...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:B8B41D48.5B9C%De...@cfl.rr.com...
Did you miss your net with that last leap of faith?
Aron-Ra
> >
> > pz <my...@mac.com> wrote in message
> > news:myers-C6D369....@laurel.tc.umn.edu...
> > > Bill Hudson <huds...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If this is true, then your city/country is weird. Us aussies dont run from
> funny looking "mean" people like youself as back then. We also have the
> "God Squad" bikie gang here in auz. In fact you might have heard of the
> bikie group "the Tribe of Judah." , from Texas, I think. I dont know
about
> these so - called door knockers you talk about, they just sound too sissy.
This story is true. And my country is weird. I've had friend's who were
diagnosed as needing mental help to correct their "satanism", which was a
condition none of them everknew they had. One kid was 14 (in 1986) and
wearing handcuff earrings which his school-appointed psychiatrist concluded
were Satanic symbols!
All heavy Metal music was "ob da debbil"
All psionic meditation was "ob da debbil"
Dark clothing was "ob da debbil"
Long hair on guys was "ob da debbil"
Anything Medieval was "ob da debbil"
and playing Dungeons & Dragons would allow "da debbil" to conquor your soul.
The 80s sucked for all the stupid witch-hunting that was going on.
Ozzy could be dragged into court for inciting a teen suicide
by writing a song that warned against alcoholism,
but the Stormtroopers of Death could bellow out
"Kill yourself! Kill yourself! Don't rely on no one else.
Hang it up and kill yourself now!"
..........and no one would ever say a thing to them about it.
Stupid flippin' fundies.
Aron-Ra
Aron-Ra
Dana Tweedy <redd...@earthlink.net@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:gcqj8.14517$Vx1.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> "Aron-Ra" <ilc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:BQaj8.12876$Vx1.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> >
> > pz <my...@mac.com> wrote in message
> > news:myers-C6D369....@laurel.tc.umn.edu...
> > > In article <pan.2002.03.11.11....@yahoo.com>,
> > > Bill Hudson <huds...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > And to think I usually just shut the door on them.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Rubystars
> > > >
> > > > back when I was young and rude, I would tend to say things like
"We're
> > > > satanists, and we need a volunteer for our human sacrifice rites.
> Would
> > > > you like to help us out?"
> >
> >
> > Back when I still ran my tattoo shop with the werewolf logo and rode
with
> a
> > scooter club under the same colors, I had hair down to my belt covering
a
> > few large tattoos. And I used to fight in armored melees that were
> > something like a medieval fair, but not for tourists.
> > This was brutal, members only competition with solid wooden weapons and
> > hundreds of competitors.
> >
>
>
> I take it you were SCA? Or maybe Tuchx?
Aron the Vain, usually of the Kingdom of the Outlands, but also in Atenveldt
with Olaf Bearcrusher.
I never heard of Tuchx.
Aron-Ra
Aron-Ra
Michael G. <mag...@mailbag.com> wrote in message
news:3c8ea0da...@news.charter.net...
> On 12 Mar 2002 08:53:04 -0500, Nantko Schanssema <nan...@xs4all.nl>
> wrote:
>
> >foo.d...@msn.com (Dick C):
> >
> >A Sunday quite a few years ago I got two JW's of the male persuasion
> >at my door. As it was, I had just moved in, and could use a helping
> >hand in bolting bookshelves to the wall. I invited them in, offered
> >coffee (they accepted), offered ciggies (they refused) and asked them
> >to hold a shelf while I fastened the bolts, which they did while we
> >discussed whether I was one of the 144.000. After two shelves they
> >suddenly remembered an appointment.
>
> God, I wish I could do this to telemarketers.
If the phone rings at 7:00pm, I automatically know its not someone I know.
Its just something I've learned after a couple of years. So when the phone
rings at about seven-ish, I answer with my most proffessional
radio-baritone;
"Hello! How would you like to earn thirty, forty,
even fifty THOUSAND dollars a year,
right from the prvacy and comfort of your own home?
.....then I change voices to something slightly higher-pitched
"We're sorry. You have reached the .....wrong number
......please......hang up".
I'm not kidding. I have done this a few times so far.
Aron-Ra
Aron-Ra
Thomas Griffin <tgri...@uic.edu> wrote in message
news:3C8E53B6...@uic.edu...
> I correctly assumed they held sexist values. I asked "Do you think your
wife and
> daughter are equal to you and can they commune directly with God as you
do?"
> He replied, "Well no, we believe that women serve men as men serve God."
> I responded, "So, your wife and daughter are second class citizens and you
get
> the final say?" I then looked at his daughter sympathetically and said "I
> wouldn't want my dad to treat me that way." At this point they lost all
their
> pretentious smiles and left w/o saying good-bye.
Thank you for sharing those. I've had a few like yours. Its nice to hear
I'm not alone.
Aron-Ra
Karl
> > back when I was young and rude, I would tend to say things like "We're
> > satanists, and we need a volunteer for our human sacrifice rites. Would
> > you like to help us out?"
> I'd be careful with that, especially if you live in the southern U.S.! I
> was watching a "NBC Dateline" the other night in which a local prosecutor
> assisted by some "experts" on 'Satanic cults" managed to get an entire
> family (by the name of Kerr), and the local sheriff, locked up on murder
> charges based on the coerced confession of a seven year-old boy. The boy
[snip]
> Where did this happen? Gilmer, Texas. Somethings can only happen in Texas.
Or Wenatchee, Washington. Or San Diego, California. Or here in Los
Angeles.
> At least the story had more or less a happy ending, except that the missing
> woman is still missing. The Kerr family and the Sherriff can't sue because
> the prosecutor was acting on the state's behalf and is immune, even in the
> case of such tremndous misconduct. He can't be fired: he has returned to
> the private practice of law.
Now here's where I think the Libertarians have the right idea. The State
is intended to be a tool in service to the people, not the other way
around. Any privileges and immunities granted to the State should be
granted only at great need and after careful consideration.
..........Karl
Max Phillips
Or perhaps capitalism ought to be banned as an abuse of telemarketing. -Max
>
>> Richard
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -Rubystars
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Wayne Bagguley
> > In article <2E8j8.12663$Vx1.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,> > > news:myers-8F8970....@laurel.tc.umn.edu...
> > > > In article
> > > > <Bz6j8.12452$Vx1.9...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> > > > "Aron-Ra" <ilc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > [snip]
>
> > > Faith is reserved for the maintainance of lies.
> >
> >
> > OK. So you didn't learn anything new, either.
>
> Well, I did sort of. I got to see something that I obviously don't get to
> see here. I got to see the desperation in their eyes as I pleaded with them
> to let me prove to them conclusively that they were in fact apes, (such a
> challenge I've never been able to resist)
Just out of interest, what would you have said if they had let you?
-
Wayne
Derek Stevenson
news:wUzj8.5789$vH1....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
It's a dilemma that faces all too many talk.origins readers -- do you use
an irony-meter, only to face the risk of serious injury when high levels of
raw irony cause the device to overload explosively, or go without and run
the risk of embarassing yourself by mistaking sarcasm for sincerity?
At last, there's an answer: the Irony Shield. Made of lightweight but
highly resistant polymers, the Irony Shield provides t.o. readers with a
clear view of their irony-meter while protecting them from the effects of
even a Zoe-level irony overload. Even repeated irony-meter vaporizations
will not scorch, fog or crack the crystal-clear window of the Irony Shield.
Protect yourself from humiliation *and* immolation. Order your Irony Shield
today!
Derek Stevenson
> > > The conversation went on for about an hour. Everything I had to say
> just
> > > seemed to bounce off their smiling mannequin-like faces. They
blocked
> it
> > > all out and learned nothing from the encounter. Such is the power of
> > faith.
> >
> > they dont sound like my crew.
>
> They sound like you.
Their *objectives* sound similar, but anyone capable of sustaining a
dialogue (such as it was) for an hour has very little in common with
One-Liner Boy, here.
Greg
>
> 2.
> Another time two young men came to the door. I asked them how all the different
> races came from just Adam and Eve and what race they thought Adam and Eve were.
> They replied that God originally created only one race and that later on he
> created the darker races to identify them as morally "bad".
> The fact that Christians could be so racist did not surprise me in the least,
> but
> I gave a puzzled look to the one young man who was Filipino with rather dark
> skin and asked "So, you're evil?"
> At this point their rational minds seemed to peek through the fog of faith and
> they
> both laughed, realizing how silly the whole idea was. At this point their
> supervisor came strolling up quickly assessed the situation and said "Well boys,
> we better get going."
Must have been the Jehovah's Witness Protection Program.
>
<trim>
Dana Tweedy
>
snip
> >
> >
> > I take it you were SCA? Or maybe Tuchx?
>
> Aron the Vain, usually of the Kingdom of the Outlands, but also in
Atenveldt
> with Olaf Bearcrusher.
>
> I never heard of Tuchx.
>
> Aron-Ra
>
Cool, I am a citizen of the East Kingdom, Shire of Montevale. Tuchx are a
splinter group, out in Western PA who play with SCA, they are based on the
Gor novels. Your description of the fighting sounds something like their
style of fighting.
Have you ever been to Pennsic?
BTW, did you know Dominick Seamour, he started his SCA career in the
Outlands, and is living here in Montevale now.
DJT aka Karl Rasmussen of Tvede,
Cary Kittrell
Well, that's why I was counting on "sheer numbers of evangelicals"
to pull us through here.
-- cary
Chris Thompson
> Must have been the Jehovah's Witness Protection Program.
>
> <trim>
>
Isn't their motto something like, "It's a terrible waste to have a mind"?
Chris
Aron-Ra
Wayne Bagguley <snow...@snowbird.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:129d3f9f.02031...@posting.google.com...
I would have explained taxonomy to them and showed them how they are apes.
I mean, if they won't contest that they are veritibrates or even that they
are mammals, then how could they argue that they were eukaryotic animals or
primates. Eventually, they'll have to get the point. They would then argue
why God specially created Adam as unique among the apes, but they would have
to understand that "ape" means hominid and refers to them.
These idiots thought apes have tails. They don't know anything about Koko
or any of the other gorillas, chimps and orangs who sign complex languages,
play video games or exhibit human emotions and behaviors as well as thought
and abstract reason. My guess is they have no idea what a bonobo is or even
if there is a difference between a chmpanzee and a gorilla other than size.
And I'm sure they think the chimps they see on TV are adults.
Aron-Ra
Aron-Ra
Derek Stevenson <dstev...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:u8upp4o...@news.supernews.com...
Good point. But most of what they said were one-liners and everything else,
they just ignored as if I hadn't even said anything. And that is exactly
like Dave-the-slave P.
Aron-Ra
Aron-Ra
>
> "Aron-Ra" <ilc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:S5Bj8.16171$Vx1.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> >
> Have you ever been to Pennsic?
Much the pity. No.
> BTW, did you know Dominick Seamour, he started his SCA career in the
> Outlands, and is living here in Montevale now.
Due to uncomfortable circumstances, I haven't been active in several years,
I'm sorry to say. But the SCA (and Amtgard) were my life for ten great
years before that.
Aron-Ra
Morgoth's Cat
Kittrell) scribed:
This is the extension of the Shakespeaer-monkey-typewriter hypothesis
here isn't it?
I help admiring your optimism.
Best Regards,
Dave
morgoth AT valinor DOT freeserve DOT co DOT uk * www.veilofnight.net
Supernovae & Creationists: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/supernova/
Kharne - graphical AD&D-based RPG for Windows http://www.kharne.net
Greg
No, you're thinking of the Jehovah's Eye Witnesses. They are much older.