Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

Why are white girls seen as more attractive than darker ones?

4 views
Skip to first unread message

Mike Henley

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 5:07:06 PM6/16/04
to
I wondered about this for some time...

1. they're paler because they need to absorb available sunlight in
Northen hemisphere more efficiently so their body can do its folate
metabolism. However, this paleness means that their skin will show
blood more easily, and blood often equates with passion, so their
lips/cheeks/blushes/nipples are pinkier/redder and that's attractive.

2. but it's not just skin color, their body shape is different from
darker girls. I can tell if a girl is white or black, or even tell a
white girl from an indian or asian one just by looking at the body
shape. White girls, especially nordic ones, have this certain white
girl body shape that's just phenomenal (no i'm not talking about the
unfit ones who shop at walmart), it's hard to describe.

3. Darker girl in Afric and elsehwere all just wanna be whiter. Skin
bleaching cremes are everywhere. Even "jungle-ass niggas" know that
white girls are the real loot.

4. Darker men just love white girls. The Arabs and Turks in the
middle-ages loved them, wrote poetry about them, and those who could
afford it, like sultans or emperors, had white concubines and wives.

I just had a convo with a friend and it occured to me that being
sexier could be an evolutionary adaptation by white girls to attract
males and generate heat in cold climates through closer physical
proximity and tactile affection. You could say that the sexier white
girls got naturally selected in the harsh, cold northen climate, more
so than darker girls in moderate climates.

Also, i think tribalism and inbreeding is more common in darker races
than it is in the white race. This alone could be a factor. Actually,
this could be the most important factor; a white teen would leave home
and go to a city hundreds of miles away to start his life as an adult
and meet/mate with a white female from a altogether different place.
This is less so in darker cultures where mariages are often arranged
and marrying a cousin is not unusual.

Choppped Liver

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 5:41:10 PM6/16/04
to


This post should be taken out and shot.
--
Charlie Watkins (Chopped Liver)
"If things were different they wouldnt' be the same."

Thomas H. Faller

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 6:00:48 PM6/16/04
to
Mike Henley scribbled:

<obvious racist troll snipped>

This guy has never been in Mississippi on a Saturday night.
I'd call this argument from ignorance.

Tom Faller

Cyde Weys

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 6:30:56 PM6/16/04
to
Not everyone thinks white girls are more attractive ...

I agree with what someone else said; your post should be taken out back,
tied to a tree, and put out of its misery.

Mike Painter

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 6:36:59 PM6/16/04
to

"r norman" <rsn_@_comcast.net> wrote in message
news:uif1d0teipbn17bil...@4ax.com...

When I was in Germany it was easy to tell an American kid from a German kid.
Throw him a ball.
If he caught it with his hands, he was American. If he bounced it off his
head or chest or used his feet he was German.

John Harshman

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 6:37:56 PM6/16/04
to

Choppped Liver wrote:

> Mike Henley wrote:
[snip]


> This post should be taken out and shot.


But it does present interesting possibilities for research. It's rather
reminiscent of the "women have one less rib" theory in that regard.

Gary Bohn

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 8:04:22 PM6/16/04
to
"Choppped Liver" <wat...@selway.umt.edu> wrote in news:953Ac.86
$ln4....@news.uswest.net:

I think you meant the poster should be taken out and shot.

--
apatriot #23, aa #1779, Grand Pubba, EAC Department of Oxygen Deprivation
Gary Bohn
(Previously known as Pan Paniscus)

Conservatism is not about tradition and morality, hasn't been for many
decades...It is about the putative biological and spiritual superiority
of the wealthy.
Greg Bear

Pithecanthropus Erectus

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 8:32:34 PM6/16/04
to

I vote for "reeducation."
The EAC has camps for that kind of thing, you know.

Matt Silberstein

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 8:38:06 PM6/16/04
to
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:07:06 +0000 (UTC), mnhe...@msn.com (Mike
Henley) wrote:

[snip]

>I just had a convo with a friend and it occured to me that being
>sexier could be an evolutionary adaptation by white girls to attract
>males and generate heat in cold climates through closer physical
>proximity and tactile affection. You could say that the sexier white
>girls got naturally selected in the harsh, cold northen climate, more
>so than darker girls in moderate climates.

I suspect that white girls are sexier because white boys are so unsexy
and so rarely attracted to girls. If white girls were not so sexy then
whites would die out.

[snip]


--
Matt Silberstein

Do in order to understand.

John Wilkins

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 8:39:25 PM6/16/04
to
Pithecanthropus Erectus <tuibguy1cr...@earthlink.net> wrote:

I wonder if this is a vestige of the old prejudice that more refined
female members of European society had pale skin to show they never went
out in the sun (and hence didn't have to work in the fields). Not
biological, or course, but cultural.
--
John S Wilkins PhD - www.wilkins.id.au
a little emptier, a little spent
as always by that quiver in the self,
subjugated, yes, and obedient. -- Seamus Heaney

John Wilkins

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 8:47:32 PM6/16/04
to
Matt Silberstein <mat...@ix.netcom.nospam> wrote:

That explains California Girls, then.

Tom McDonald

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 8:52:16 PM6/16/04
to
Thomas H. Faller wrote:

A few years ago, I saw a copy of my Scottish
great-grandparents' marriage certificate. They were from the
same small area near Skye in the Western Highlands, then about
the whitest place you could find. Their certificate noted that
they were 'Cousins German'. A bit of research showed that
'cousins German' meant 'first cousins'. It was very common in
that place at that time for cousins to marry.

I suspect that this is more common where the populations are
relatively sparse, and not very mobile. Skin color has zilch to
do with it.

Tom McDonald

Dick C

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 9:05:06 PM6/16/04
to
Mike Painter wrote in talk.origins

Heh, when I was growing up if it bounced off his head or chest the
thrower would be told "good shot"

>
>
>

--
Dick #1349
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
~Benjamin Franklin

Home Page: dickcr.iwarp.com
email: dic...@comcast.net

John Harshman

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 9:06:55 PM6/16/04
to

John Wilkins wrote:

> Matt Silberstein <mat...@ix.netcom.nospam> wrote:
>
>
>>On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:07:06 +0000 (UTC), mnhe...@msn.com (Mike
>>Henley) wrote:
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>
>>>I just had a convo with a friend and it occured to me that being
>>>sexier could be an evolutionary adaptation by white girls to attract
>>>males and generate heat in cold climates through closer physical
>>>proximity and tactile affection. You could say that the sexier white
>>>girls got naturally selected in the harsh, cold northen climate, more
>>>so than darker girls in moderate climates.
>>>
>>I suspect that white girls are sexier because white boys are so unsexy
>>and so rarely attracted to girls. If white girls were not so sexy then
>>whites would die out.
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>
> That explains California Girls, then.


Hey, do I insult Australians? Oh, that's right. I do. Never mind.

Kermit

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 9:13:43 PM6/16/04
to
r norman <rsn_@_comcast.net> wrote in message news:<uif1d0teipbn17bil...@4ax.com>...
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:07:06 +0000 (UTC), mnhe...@msn.com (Mike
> Henley) wrote:
>
> Wow, I'll bet you can also tell a Frenchman from a German (though the
> Alsations may be a problem)! And I'll bet you can even identify a
> Jew just at a glance. Probably distinguishing between a Baptist and a
> Roman Catholic takes a little more discernment. But with careful
> study I guess you could even tell whether a Lutheran was Missouri
> Synod!
>
> Has anybody ever told you that Arabs and Turks are white (whatever
> that means)?
>
> Has anybody ever told you what racism means?


There was a study just a couple years back (I no longer have the cite)
of racist students. They developed a questionnaire that determined
whether or not a particular student was anti-Semetic. They then showed
a list of photographs of other students to the test subject and asked
whether or not the student in the photo was Jewish.

The racist test subjects always expressed a high degree of certainty,
much higher than the non-racist students. Yet the antiSemetic test
subjects were no more or less accurate in guessing which students were
Jewish by looking at the photos (slightly higher than random
guessing).

Kermit

Matt Silberstein

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 9:20:24 PM6/16/04
to
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:39:25 +0000 (UTC), john...@wilkins.id.au
(John Wilkins) wrote:

>Pithecanthropus Erectus <tuibguy1cr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Cyde Weys wrote:
>> > Not everyone thinks white girls are more attractive ...
>> >
>> > I agree with what someone else said; your post should be taken out back,
>> > tied to a tree, and put out of its misery.
>> >
>>
>> I vote for "reeducation."
>> The EAC has camps for that kind of thing, you know.
>
>I wonder if this is a vestige of the old prejudice that more refined
>female members of European society had pale skin to show they never went
>out in the sun (and hence didn't have to work in the fields). Not
>biological, or course, but cultural.

In a sense. Dark skin now is considered attractive, pale skin used to
be. Both, at the time, showed that one was a member of the "leisure
class". 200 years ago in England lower class people worked in the
fields and got a tan, the upper class stayed indoors. Today working
people are indoors, the leisure class gets a tan.

John Wilkins

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 9:20:50 PM6/16/04
to
John Harshman <jharshman....@pacbell.net> wrote:

We'd be disappointed if you'all didn't :-) If we couldn't hate Yanks,
we'd have to pick on someone else, like Canadians or something.

mvillanu

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 9:25:33 PM6/16/04
to
mnhe...@msn.com (Mike Henley) wrote in message news:<6005702b.04061...@posting.google.com>...

> I wondered about this for some time...
>
[snip]

Before you do any more "wondering" why don't you take into
consideration the dominance of Western culture in the world, and the
effects of a few centuries of "white" colonization over "darker"
people...and what effects that has on contemporary standards of
beauty.

Take it nice and easy though, we wouldn't want your synapses to fry
themselves from the mental overload...

John Monrad

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 9:36:01 PM6/16/04
to
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 01:05:06 +0000 (UTC), Dick C posted in article
<Xns950AB80251213...@216.196.97.136>...

> Mike Painter wrote in talk.origins
>
> >
> > "r norman" <rsn_@_comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:uif1d0teipbn17bil...@4ax.com...
> >
> > When I was in Germany it was easy to tell an American kid from a German
> > kid. Throw him a ball.
> > If he caught it with his hands, he was American. If he bounced it off
> > his head or chest or used his feet he was German.
>
> Heh, when I was growing up if it bounced off his head or chest the
> thrower would be told "good shot"

"soak'em"? At least that's what it was known as on the Sunset Hill side
of Ballard.

--
John Monrad (Adams Elementary '59)

Chris Thompson

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 9:38:04 PM6/16/04
to
john...@wilkins.id.au (John Wilkins) wrote in
news:1gfitlb.1sqw5071cl5l3eN%john...@wilkins.id.au:

> Pithecanthropus Erectus <tuibguy1cr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Cyde Weys wrote:
>> > Not everyone thinks white girls are more attractive ...
>> >
>> > I agree with what someone else said; your post should be taken out
>> > back, tied to a tree, and put out of its misery.
>> >
>>
>> I vote for "reeducation."
>> The EAC has camps for that kind of thing, you know.
>
> I wonder if this is a vestige of the old prejudice that more refined
> female members of European society had pale skin to show they never
> went out in the sun (and hence didn't have to work in the fields). Not
> biological, or course, but cultural.

I thought it was the wasting diseases, myself. Or did the TB come
later?

Chris

(who has never regretted splurging a week's wages all those years ago on
tickets to La Boheme. They had a donkey on stage. A real one. And it
sang.)

--
"We are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and
then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so
as to show that we were right. Intellectually, it is possible to carry
on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that
sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality, usually
on a battlefield." --George Orwell, 1946, "Under Your Nose"

Kermit

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 9:36:55 PM6/16/04
to
mnhe...@msn.com (Mike Henley) wrote in message news:<6005702b.04061...@posting.google.com>...
> I wondered about this for some time...
<snip>

> Also, i think tribalism and inbreeding is more common in darker races
> than it is in the white race.

Well, present company excepted.

<snip>

However, beauty *is a fit subject for scientific study, but one
fraught with peril (is anything ever fraught with anything *besides
peril?) These assertions listed (except the last) have all been
claimed by scientists, with varying degrees of interpretation and
questionable data involved.

Research suggests that beauty is determined by several factors. These
include (but are probably not limited to):
1. Average features (computer-blended male and female faces are seen
by most test subjects as most attractive).
2. Ethnic characteristics of the people the test subject grew up with
(see "The Gods Must Be Crazy" for a non-scientific reaction of the
protagonist's first introduction to a beautiful blonde woman (can you
say "corpse"?)).
3. Symmetry. Altho it is usually not consciously noted, people who are
measurably more bilaterally symmetrical are perceived as more
attractive.
4. Good health.
5. Appropriate age. Typically, prime child producing years for females
(16-20) and prime food production years for males (18-25).
6. Fashion and other indicators indicating appropriate status. High
status is usually more desirable. In Europe 300 years ago, fat women
were more desirable than they are now. This is strongly influenced by
advertising and mass media.
7. Attitude, confidence, cheerfulness, etc.
8. In males, responsibility / wealth /capacity to provide or be a good
father.
9. There also seems to be a "bad boy" factor which makes a certain
wildness / stupidity / delinquency / dangerous tendency in young males
to be more attractive to females. This is hard to measure, and if it
really exists, is possibly the same phenomenon as the male bird of
paradise being more atrractive to females with a long and more
resource-consuming tail. "Look at that tail! He must really be a tough
bird if he's still alive!" Compare to a young female human's "Look at
him! Leather jacket! Gangsta fashion! Smoking cigarettes! He is sooo
kewl!"
10. Completely non-supported by any study that I know of: musical and
dancing ability. Analogous to bird song in mating?

These are roughly listed in order of importance.

<Flame on>

Kermit

*Hemidactylus*

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 9:54:10 PM6/16/04
to
John Harshman <jharshman....@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<40D0CC0A...@pacbell.net>...
I'd like to volunteer as a test subject in an experiment determining
my (ie- white bread "Nordic") attraction towards various females with
African ancestry. Let's see maybe they could lure me with Beyonce,
Gabrielle Union, Vivica Fox, Angela Bassett, or Arthel Neville. Hubba
hubba! I'd be willing to volunteer in the name of science :-)

After that could I volunteer for study including women of Southeast
Asian ancestry. I'm on a quest for truth.

I have dated outside my "race" before. Would that disqualify me from
the study?

Pithecanthropus Erectus

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 10:51:11 PM6/16/04
to
John Wilkins wrote:

> John Harshman <jharshman....@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>
>>John Wilkins wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Matt Silberstein <mat...@ix.netcom.nospam> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:07:06 +0000 (UTC), mnhe...@msn.com (Mike
>>>>Henley) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I just had a convo with a friend and it occured to me that being
>>>>>sexier could be an evolutionary adaptation by white girls to attract
>>>>>males and generate heat in cold climates through closer physical
>>>>>proximity and tactile affection. You could say that the sexier white
>>>>>girls got naturally selected in the harsh, cold northen climate, more
>>>>>so than darker girls in moderate climates.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I suspect that white girls are sexier because white boys are so unsexy
>>>>and so rarely attracted to girls. If white girls were not so sexy then
>>>>whites would die out.
>>>>
>>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>
>>>That explains California Girls, then.
>>
>>
>>Hey, do I insult Australians? Oh, that's right. I do. Never mind.
>
>
> We'd be disappointed if you'all didn't :-) If we couldn't hate Yanks,
> we'd have to pick on someone else, like Canadians or something.

*Move* over America; there's a new asshole on the map! I've had it up to
here with your skiing heroes! I've had it up to here with your
mountains! I've had it up to here with your secret *bank* accounts! From
now on, Switzerland, your name is mud.

*Hemidactylus*

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 11:01:36 PM6/16/04
to
Cyde Weys <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<mT3Ac.35524$tA6....@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>...

> Not everyone thinks white girls are more attractive ...
>
There's some sistas out there that are absolute knockouts. I'd put
these Josephine Louis's up against Henley's Maxine Schmeling's any
day. Once someone gets beyond the "racial" hangups they can expand
their concept of beauty.

I've noticed quite a few interracial relationships. Maybe there's a
growing trend. There's a lot of people out there with some seriously
blended heritage, so somebody is attracted to members of other
cultural groups...obviously.


>
> I agree with what someone else said; your post should be taken out back,
> tied to a tree, and put out of its misery.
>

That would be poetic justice given what racist mindsets have wrought
historically against black folks in the South. Yet here it would only
be a post that was lynched.

John Wilkins

unread,
Jun 16, 2004, 11:13:11 PM6/16/04
to
Pithecanthropus Erectus <tuibguy1cr...@earthlink.net> wrote:

I recall seeing a wonderful film with Peter Falk in it (and Keanu Reeves
and Barbara Hershey, no doubt another sockpuppet) in which he spends
most of the time warning people about them Romanians (or was it
Bulgarians? - it's a long time ago).

It was called "Aunt Julia and the Scriptwriter" from a novel by Mario
Vargas Llosa, but in the US it got called "Tune in Tomorrow"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100822/
--
Dr John Wilkins
john...@wilkins.id.au http://wilkins.id.au
"Men mark it when they hit, but do not mark it when they miss"
- Francis Bacon

Sporkmastar Fred

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 12:20:52 AM6/17/04
to
I don't know which is worse, this post or the upcoming movie White Chicks.

Mike Henley

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 12:56:20 AM6/17/04
to
"Choppped Liver" <wat...@selway.umt.edu> wrote in message news:<953Ac.86$ln4....@news.uswest.net>...


>
> This post should be taken out and shot.

Why? 'cos it's politically incorrect to talk about something that
could spark a race issue even if it's so evident and everyone does it?

It's politically incorrect to say, for example, that many black women
use skin bleaching products eventhoug they do?

Mike Henley

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 1:34:11 AM6/17/04
to
"Thomas H. Faller" <fal...@sgi.com> wrote in message news:<40D0C32E...@sgi.com>...


"We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to
tolerate the intolerant"
Karl Poppr, The open Society and its enemies.

no no no no... I am not ignorant... I'll tell you what i consider
ignorant, that you can't discuss race issues when they are real and
evident without being branded racist.

I believe that i am part black, some grandmother of mine was almost
certainly black, it's hard to tell for sure because my mother was
adopted, but her connections seem to include some black folks (and her
looks strongly suggested it too), and eventhough, generally people
seem to consider me white. But you know what? I look at my white
friends who seem most rigid about political correctness, the ones who
get horrified when i talk about black issues and seem willing to
consider me racist (anti-black), and you know what i see? they have NO
BLACK FRIENDS!!! I look at their social networks and they really know
no black people well enough. And how could you care about someone when
you don't even bother to get to know them? It's just trendy to be
politically correct, and far more intellectually convenient.

take another example of what i consider ignorance, quite a recent one,
of a friend playing the politically correct role and treating me as
the ignorant one. I have known quite a few gays, quite a few, and
quite closely, and I'm quite familiar with the gay lifestyle. This one
friend I had (a girl) seemed to think that i made up a mention of
public toilettes sex that was relevant to some STD convo we were
having, and she seemed to totally disbelieve me and was suggesting i'm
an ignorant homophobe. So what did i do? I checked it with a male gay
buddy, and what did he tell me? he totally agreed with me that public
sex toilettes are common enough to be a feature of a gay lifestyle;
his estimates being that 60% of american gay males and 80% of european
ones would have had an experience. And that's the estimate of a gay
guy. But what did my friend think? that i'm ignorant because she did
not believe it happened. Who is really ignorant? and what is being
ignorant? oh the irony!

Mike Henley

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 1:48:51 AM6/17/04
to
r norman <rsn_@_comcast.net> wrote in message news:<uif1d0teipbn17bil...@4ax.com>...
>
> Wow, I'll bet you can also tell a Frenchman from a German (though the
> Alsations may be a problem)! And I'll bet you can even identify a
> Jew just at a glance.

My ex-wife and ex-inlaws were French, and quite often, in cosmopolitan
cities, i correctly identified French people from a distance, though
it's often been aided by fashion sense and body language. I have often
also correctly identified people from a french ancestry.

And i have quite a few close jewish friends, in fact, especially
jewish girls, as over the past 2 years i can count 6 girls, to 3 or 4
of them I have been within a handful of close friends, and to 2 (of
the 3 or 4) i have been more than just friends. Ironically, when it
comes to discussing a future, they all seem to have the mindset that
they could date but would only wanna marry a jewish guy. Quite often i
have correctly identified Jewish people "at a glance".

What does this have to do with my post, though?

> Probably distinguishing between a Baptist and a
> Roman Catholic takes a little more discernment. But with careful
> study I guess you could even tell whether a Lutheran was Missouri
> Synod!
>
> Has anybody ever told you that Arabs and Turks are white (whatever
> that means)?
>
> Has anybody ever told you what racism means?

I know what racism means, I had an acquintance that i recently decided
i no longer wanted to be friends with. She's an american white girl
from an east european ancestry who just returned from Iraq, she
clearly does not consider Arabs white, and apparently neither do most
of the people with her in the US Army.

Why did decide i no longer wanted to be friends with her? her racial
slurs disgusted me.

Mike Henley

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 2:01:47 AM6/17/04
to
mvil...@hotmail.com (mvillanu) wrote in message news:<dc4a405f.0406...@posting.google.com>...

Regardless. Arab culture was dominant for centuries and still, Arabs
loved white girls, the whiter the better, and didn't have much regard
for dark ones.

Daniel Harper

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 2:05:50 AM6/17/04
to
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:39:25 +0000, John Wilkins wrote:

> Pithecanthropus Erectus <tuibguy1cr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Cyde Weys wrote:
>> > Not everyone thinks white girls are more attractive ...
>> >
>> > I agree with what someone else said; your post should be taken out
>> > back, tied to a tree, and put out of its misery.
>> >
>> >
>> I vote for "reeducation."
>> The EAC has camps for that kind of thing, you know.
>
> I wonder if this is a vestige of the old prejudice that more refined
> female members of European society had pale skin to show they never went
> out in the sun (and hence didn't have to work in the fields). Not
> biological, or course, but cultural.

That one dates at least as far back as Homer. (The blind one, not the one
on Fox.) In one part of the Odyssey, explicit reference is made to
Penelope's fair white skin, a mark of the rich and famous.

I don't have a cite handy, but I can probably locate it if anyone's
interested.

--
Finding a scientific theory of creation is a bit like parsing /dev/null.

--Daniel Harper

(change terra to earth for email)

Mike Henley

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 2:09:34 AM6/17/04
to
unrestra...@hotmail.com (Kermit) wrote in message news:<2b38d8c5.04061...@posting.google.com>...

> "Look at
> him! Leather jacket! Gangsta fashion! Smoking cigarettes! He is sooo
> kewl!"


Big EWWW to that.


> 10. Completely non-supported by any study that I know of: musical and
> dancing ability. Analogous to bird song in mating?
>

Supported by countless anecdotal evidence of all the teen girls who go
ga-ga over band boys.

Mike Henley

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 3:28:32 AM6/17/04
to
ecph...@hotmail.com (*Hemidactylus*) wrote in message news:<e6a845aa.0406...@posting.google.com>...

> >
> >
> > But it does present interesting possibilities for research. It's rather
> > reminiscent of the "women have one less rib" theory in that regard.
> >
> I'd like to volunteer as a test subject in an experiment determining
> my (ie- white bread "Nordic") attraction towards various females with
> African ancestry. Let's see maybe they could lure me with Beyonce,

A year ago, last summer, I recall a chat with a BLACK FRIEND, a girl,
of clear African ancestry about this. I told her that I found beyonce
attractive, (I also found that black girl friend - not girlfriend -
attractive), you know what she told me? She said that beyonce is not a
good example of a black girl at all, and her lightness (of color) is
one main reason many black guys find her especially hot.

It's true, even in the Black community, the fairer-skinned black girls
are more attractive.

SAM

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 3:58:42 AM6/17/04
to

As an Asian, it seems to me that many light-colored people want
to look more like us, hence the continued popularity of beaches
and tanning salons.

This reminds me of a study that was published in Science or Nature
back in the early 90's. The cover had many images of the same
face but with slight variations. Anyway, the article reported
research findings where men from around the world were asked to
look at a pictures of women's faces and indicate which ones they
thought were beautiful or not. After a bunch of fancy statistics,
they determined that faces judged to be most beautiful by men in
general had some feature that was exaggerated (ie. angle of nose,
placement of cheekbones, distance between eyes, size of lips, etc).
Then, taking all these things into account, they created a composite
face using a computer where they could adjust all kinds of facial
parameters. They took a set (and mixed them in with the other photos
I believe) and asked another group of men to evaluate them. Basically,
the results confirmed the earlier findings. Even the same virtual
face was deemed more attractive when it had non-average features.

Anyway, I should try to find that article again. It was very interesting.

SAM

mvillanu

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 4:56:45 AM6/17/04
to
ecph...@hotmail.com (*Hemidactylus*) wrote in message news:<e6a845aa.0406...@posting.google.com>...
I'm with you. Since I'm SouthEast Asian in ancestry I propose to be
the "control" in this experiment. Bring em on. I'll gladly donate my
time.

*Hemidactylus*

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 5:53:53 AM6/17/04
to
mvil...@hotmail.com (mvillanu) wrote in message news:<dc4a405f.0406...@posting.google.com>...
> mnhe...@msn.com (Mike Henley) wrote in message news:<6005702b.04061...@posting.google.com>...
> > I wondered about this for some time...
> >
> [snip]
>
> Before you do any more "wondering" why don't you take into
> consideration the dominance of Western culture in the world, and the
> effects of a few centuries of "white" colonization over "darker"
> people...and what effects that has on contemporary standards of
> beauty.
>
MacArthur was a representative of this imposed power structure in the
Philippines and he had Dimples. There was obviously some sort of cross
cultural aesthetic appeal thingy going on there.

>
> Take it nice and easy though, we wouldn't want your synapses to fry
> themselves from the mental overload...
>
Contemplating the affinities that Thomas Jefferson and Strom Thurmond
apparently had for black women might make him do a tailspin.

*Hemidactylus*

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 6:00:58 AM6/17/04
to
Pithecanthropus Erectus <tuibguy1cr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<0H7Ac.7660$Wr....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
And who the heck wants to buy cheese with a bunch of holes in it? What
a ripoff. And enough of that Basle lovin' Nietzsche already!

Eric Root

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 9:18:21 AM6/17/04
to

Mike Henley wrote:

It's not that they didn't have an affinity for dark girls, it's just that dark
girls were a dime a dozen, light-skinned girls with unusual hair color were
exotic and rare in the middle east.
Also, we don't have true statistics on harems; did Turks who were closer to
Europe than Africa think European women sexier than African, both of whom were
different than their own women?
Also, don't toss off too lightly what mvillanu said about cultural
dominance; the rich usually seem sexier than the poor.
Another consideration is the old trope that "they're after our women!" the
idea that one's own females are lusted after by other groups and thus are more
desirable than others (and must be protected from the leering barbarians). This
is related to the idea that one's own religion is more likely to be true, one's
own music is actually better than other people's, that one's own social class is
the best, etc. I'm sure this trick of thought must have survival value, but
that doesn't make it more strictly true in a universal sense.

*Hemidactylus*

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 10:02:30 AM6/17/04
to
mnhe...@msn.com (Mike Henley) wrote in message news:<6005702b.04061...@posting.google.com>...
Yet she's "darker" than the typical woman of mostly nothern European
ancestry and I'd hazard that lots of white guys find her very
attractive, not just Austin Powers. She's prettier than quite a few
"white" women. This attractiveness of Beyonce represents a data point
challenging your assumptions about relative beauty.

And you found this black friend of yours attractive. Given time and
many more "convos" you never know...you might fall in love with her.


>
> It's true, even in the Black community, the fairer-skinned black girls
> are more attractive.
>

Yet you see so many white womeen basking on the beach for that deeper
darker tan, at least until they realize that skin cancer may be an
important consideration.

I do note your snip of the rest of my post where I listed women other
than Beyonce. She was one of several I listed. I wonder why you chose
to exclude them.

Choppped Liver

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 10:24:31 AM6/17/04
to


No, because it was ill-founded, ill-informed, completely parochial,
projected personal impulses, prejudices and limited experience to the world
in general AND managed to offend every ethnicity and gender on the planet.

--
Charlie Watkins (Chopped Liver)
"If things were different they wouldnt' be the same."

Thomas H. Faller

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 10:52:24 AM6/17/04
to
Mike Henley wrote:

Excuse me! My mistake: the original post wasn't just to make racist
remarks, it was to gather replies so that the poster could try and impress
us with how educated, liberal and tolerant he was. I guess someone isn't
getting enough warm fuzzies at home! Okay everybody! Group hug
for Mikey!

Tom Faller


Robin Levett

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 11:03:03 AM6/17/04
to
Mike Henley wrote:

..and that contradicts mvillanu's thesis how?

--
Robin Levett
rle...@rlevett.ibmuklunix.net (unmunge by removing big blue - don't yahoo)
Can you tell what I am just by looking at my name?

J McCoy

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 11:03:18 AM6/17/04
to
mnhe...@msn.com (Mike Henley) wrote in message news:<6005702b.04061...@posting.google.com>...
> I wondered about this for some time...

Keep on wondering. The fact is many wear make-up just as do Hollywood stars.

JM


>
> 1. they're paler because they need to absorb available sunlight in
> Northen hemisphere more efficiently so their body can do its folate
> metabolism. However, this paleness means that their skin will show
> blood more easily, and blood often equates with passion, so their
> lips/cheeks/blushes/nipples are pinkier/redder and that's attractive.
>
> 2. but it's not just skin color, their body shape is different from
> darker girls. I can tell if a girl is white or black, or even tell a
> white girl from an indian or asian one just by looking at the body
> shape. White girls, especially nordic ones, have this certain white
> girl body shape that's just phenomenal (no i'm not talking about the
> unfit ones who shop at walmart), it's hard to describe.
>
> 3. Darker girl in Afric and elsehwere all just wanna be whiter. Skin
> bleaching cremes are everywhere. Even "jungle-ass niggas" know that
> white girls are the real loot.
>
> 4. Darker men just love white girls. The Arabs and Turks in the
> middle-ages loved them, wrote poetry about them, and those who could
> afford it, like sultans or emperors, had white concubines and wives.


>
> I just had a convo with a friend and it occured to me that being
> sexier could be an evolutionary adaptation by white girls to attract
> males and generate heat in cold climates through closer physical
> proximity and tactile affection. You could say that the sexier white
> girls got naturally selected in the harsh, cold northen climate, more
> so than darker girls in moderate climates.
>

> Also, i think tribalism and inbreeding is more common in darker races

> than it is in the white race. This alone could be a factor. Actually,
> this could be the most important factor; a white teen would leave home
> and go to a city hundreds of miles away to start his life as an adult
> and meet/mate with a white female from a altogether different place.
> This is less so in darker cultures where mariages are often arranged
> and marrying a cousin is not unusual.

Boikat

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 11:09:49 AM6/17/04
to

"Mike Henley" <mnhe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:6005702b.04061...@posting.google.com...

<snip nonsense>

Who says that white girls are more attractive than darker ones? Is skin tone
your sole "criteria" for beauty? Ms Piggy is more attractive than Holly
Barry?

Boikat

Richard S. Crawford

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 11:17:18 AM6/17/04
to
Mike Henley wrote:

> I wondered about this for some time...

<...snip...>

Do not feed the troll.

Matt Silberstein

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 11:18:47 AM6/17/04
to
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 06:05:50 +0000 (UTC), "Daniel Harper"
<daniel...@terralink.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:39:25 +0000, John Wilkins wrote:
>
>> Pithecanthropus Erectus <tuibguy1cr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Cyde Weys wrote:
>>> > Not everyone thinks white girls are more attractive ...
>>> >
>>> > I agree with what someone else said; your post should be taken out
>>> > back, tied to a tree, and put out of its misery.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> I vote for "reeducation."
>>> The EAC has camps for that kind of thing, you know.
>>
>> I wonder if this is a vestige of the old prejudice that more refined
>> female members of European society had pale skin to show they never went
>> out in the sun (and hence didn't have to work in the fields). Not
>> biological, or course, but cultural.
>
>That one dates at least as far back as Homer. (The blind one, not the one
>on Fox.) In one part of the Odyssey, explicit reference is made to
>Penelope's fair white skin, a mark of the rich and famous.
>
>I don't have a cite handy, but I can probably locate it if anyone's
>interested.

And Lilith, on _Cheers_ was considered *unattractive* in part because
of her white skin. Tastes change over time.


--
Matt Silberstein

Do in order to understand.

Dick C

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 11:36:17 AM6/17/04
to
John Monrad wrote in talk.origins

> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 01:05:06 +0000 (UTC), Dick C posted in article
> <Xns950AB80251213...@216.196.97.136>...
>> Heh, when I was growing up if it bounced off his head or chest the
>> thrower would be told "good shot"
>
> "soak'em"? At least that's what it was known as on the Sunset Hill side
> of Ballard.

I lived on 32 NW and NW 56th when I was in High School in the mid 60's.

However, I lived my younger years north of Seattle, and we didn't
call it much of anything then.


--
Dick #1349
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
~Benjamin Franklin

Home Page: dickcr.iwarp.com
email: dic...@comcast.net

Elf M. Sternberg

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 12:06:27 PM6/17/04
to
ecph...@hotmail.com (*Hemidactylus*) writes:

> I'd like to volunteer as a test subject in an experiment determining
> my (ie- white bread "Nordic") attraction towards various females with
> African ancestry. Let's see maybe they could lure me with Beyonce,

> Gabrielle Union, Vivica Fox, Angela Bassett, or Arthel Neville. Hubba
> hubba! I'd be willing to volunteer in the name of science :-)

How, how, HOW could you forget Halle Berry?

Elf

Elf M. Sternberg

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 12:08:12 PM6/17/04
to
mnhe...@msn.com (Mike Henley) writes:

> It's politically incorrect to say, for example, that many black women
> use skin bleaching products eventhoug they do?

And while it's not politically incorrect to say so, lots of
white girls get into tanning booths. What's your point? There's always
a population that thinks that "otherness" and "exoticism" is erotic or
attractive in some other way, and will act accordingly.

Elf

Kermit

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 12:54:41 PM6/17/04
to
mnhe...@msn.com (Mike Henley) wrote in message news:<6005702b.04061...@posting.google.com>...
> mvil...@hotmail.com (mvillanu) wrote in message news:<dc4a405f.0406...@posting.google.com>...
> > mnhe...@msn.com (Mike Henley) wrote in message news:<6005702b.04061...@posting.google.com>...
> > > I wondered about this for some time...
> > >
> > [snip]
> >
> > Before you do any more "wondering" why don't you take into
> > consideration the dominance of Western culture in the world, and the
> > effects of a few centuries of "white" colonization over "darker"
> > people...and what effects that has on contemporary standards of
> > beauty.
> >
> > Take it nice and easy though, we wouldn't want your synapses to fry
> > themselves from the mental overload...
>
> Regardless. Arab culture was dominant for centuries and still, Arabs
> loved white girls, the whiter the better, and didn't have much regard
> for dark ones.


Well, I remember all the "white slavery" tales from the nineteenth
century. Do you have any other supporting documentation, or is this
revealed "knowledge"?

Kermit

Kermit

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 1:06:46 PM6/17/04
to
mnhe...@msn.com (Mike Henley) wrote in message news:<6005702b.04061...@posting.google.com>...
> mvil...@hotmail.com (mvillanu) wrote in message news:<dc4a405f.0406...@posting.google.com>...
> > mnhe...@msn.com (Mike Henley) wrote in message news:<6005702b.04061...@posting.google.com>...
> > > I wondered about this for some time...
> > >
> > [snip]
> >
> > Before you do any more "wondering" why don't you take into
> > consideration the dominance of Western culture in the world, and the
> > effects of a few centuries of "white" colonization over "darker"
> > people...and what effects that has on contemporary standards of
> > beauty.
> >
> > Take it nice and easy though, we wouldn't want your synapses to fry
> > themselves from the mental overload...
>
> Regardless. Arab culture was dominant for centuries and still, Arabs
> loved white girls, the whiter the better, and didn't have much regard
> for dark ones.

Chris Thompson

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 1:34:34 PM6/17/04
to
mnhe...@msn.com (Mike Henley) wrote in
news:6005702b.04061...@posting.google.com:

That explains why Egyptians and Saudis are so pale today.

mc092!jh&^#N_)@J@k_#

Sorry, had to pound my head on the keyboard for a minute.

Hey, let's bring the Constitution thread together with this one. Then
we can talk about Thomas Jefforson's kids!

--
Chris
aa#2186
Black helicopter mind-control-ray door-gunner
=====
"We are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and
then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so
as to show that we were right. Intellectually, it is possible to carry
on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that
sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality, usually
on a battlefield." --George Orwell, 1946, "Under Your Nose"


Ferrous Patella

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 1:36:37 PM6/17/04
to
news:6005702b.04061...@posting.google.com by mnhe...@msn.com
(Mike Henley):

> I wondered about this for some time...

[...]

Imprinting.

It is just like when a bucket is the first thing baby ducklettes see when
the hatch. When they grow up, that bucket is going to take a beating.

--
Ferrous Patella (Homo gerardii)

"If the universe is so finely tuned, how come I can't sing worth a darn?"
-Cheezits

Richard Clayton

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 1:54:41 PM6/17/04
to
Elf M. Sternberg wrote:

Easily, and with relish. MOST OVERRATED ACTRESS EVER.
--
[The address listed is a spam trap. To reply, take off every zig.]

"Mmm! Power lines and paint chips! My childhood ROCKS!" -- Fighter,
8-bit Theatre

John Harshman

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 2:04:03 PM6/17/04
to

Richard Clayton wrote:

> Elf M. Sternberg wrote:
>
>
>>ecph...@hotmail.com (*Hemidactylus*) writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I'd like to volunteer as a test subject in an experiment determining
>>>my (ie- white bread "Nordic") attraction towards various females with
>>>African ancestry. Let's see maybe they could lure me with Beyonce,
>>>Gabrielle Union, Vivica Fox, Angela Bassett, or Arthel Neville. Hubba
>>>hubba! I'd be willing to volunteer in the name of science :-)
>>>
>> How, how, HOW could you forget Halle Berry?
>>
>
> Easily, and with relish. MOST OVERRATED ACTRESS EVER.


It's not her acting that's being discussed here. Focus. Does she look
good in a leather cat-suit?

Daniel Harper

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 2:49:51 PM6/17/04
to

And Lilith, on talk.origins? <grrwl>

Also note that within the USA-ian media, most of the "sex symbol" pop
stars are now men and women of color. Even the "white" sex symbols
generally have dark tans or other, what you might call, "non-Aryan"
qualities.

There are exceptions, of course, but then again I am talking about the
nonsense of "pop-culture" here. ;->

Daniel Harper

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 3:15:47 PM6/17/04
to

Yeah. The idea that "them dastardly Negroes are after our pure virginal
white women" is still felt (but rarely spoken) in many places today. For a
historically valuable example of this, see D.W. Griffith's _Birth of a
Nation_. (And then, just to totally mess up your mind, see the same
director's _Intolerance_, made only a year later.)

Matt Silberstein

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 3:34:21 PM6/17/04
to
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 18:49:51 +0000 (UTC), "Daniel Harper"
<daniel...@terralink.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:18:47 +0000, Matt Silberstein wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 06:05:50 +0000 (UTC), "Daniel Harper"
>> <daniel...@terralink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:39:25 +0000, John Wilkins wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pithecanthropus Erectus <tuibguy1cr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Cyde Weys wrote:
>>>>> > Not everyone thinks white girls are more attractive ...
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I agree with what someone else said; your post should be taken out
>>>>> > back, tied to a tree, and put out of its misery.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> I vote for "reeducation."
>>>>> The EAC has camps for that kind of thing, you know.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if this is a vestige of the old prejudice that more refined
>>>> female members of European society had pale skin to show they never
>>>> went out in the sun (and hence didn't have to work in the fields). Not
>>>> biological, or course, but cultural.
>>>
>>>That one dates at least as far back as Homer. (The blind one, not the one
>>>on Fox.) In one part of the Odyssey, explicit reference is made to
>>>Penelope's fair white skin, a mark of the rich and famous.
>>>
>>>I don't have a cite handy, but I can probably locate it if anyone's
>>>interested.
>>
>> And Lilith, on _Cheers_ was considered *unattractive* in part because of
>> her white skin. Tastes change over time.
>
>And Lilith, on talk.origins? <grrwl>

Bebe Neuwirth is in a show she co-created called _Here Lies Jenny_, a
performance built upon the work of Kurt Weil. She gave a talk Tuesday
night that I attended. She was so smart and open and, well,
attractive. And she hates being greeted as "Lilith". She is a two-time
Tony Award winner after all.

>Also note that within the USA-ian media, most of the "sex symbol" pop
>stars are now men and women of color. Even the "white" sex symbols
>generally have dark tans or other, what you might call, "non-Aryan"
>qualities.
>
>There are exceptions, of course, but then again I am talking about the
>nonsense of "pop-culture" here. ;->


--

beachnut

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 4:29:46 PM6/17/04
to
ecph...@hotmail.com (*Hemidactylus*) wrote in message news:<e6a845aa.0406...@posting.google.com>...

> I'd like to volunteer as a test subject in an experiment determining


> my (ie- white bread "Nordic") attraction towards various females with
> African ancestry. Let's see maybe they could lure me with Beyonce,

> Gabrielle Union, Vivica Fox, Angela Bassett, or Arthel Neville...

OT: A big extra plus for Arthel:

A few years back, when she was working for a
local TV station, I spent about an hour chatting
with her at that station's xmas party. She
is one sweetheart with a real edge--she was
teasing the hell out of me. A really, really nice
gal. Oh, she's the Brothers' cousin, BTW.

bn

KelvynT

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 5:08:03 PM6/17/04
to
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:52:16 +0000 (UTC), Tom McDonald wrote:

>Thomas H. Faller wrote:
>
>> Mike Henley scribbled:
>>
>> <obvious racist troll snipped>
>>
>> This guy has never been in Mississippi on a Saturday night.
>> I'd call this argument from ignorance.
>>
>> Tom Faller
>>
>

> A few years ago, I saw a copy of my Scottish
>great-grandparents' marriage certificate. They were from the
>same small area near Skye in the Western Highlands, then about
>the whitest place you could find. Their certificate noted that
>they were 'Cousins German'. A bit of research showed that
>'cousins German' meant 'first cousins'. It was very common in
>that place at that time for cousins to marry.
>
> I suspect that this is more common where the populations are
>relatively sparse, and not very mobile. Skin color has zilch to
>do with it.
>
>Tom McDonald

It was also very common in Victorian times, especially among the
aristocracy and wealthy families, as a way of keeping the wealth in
the family.

Kelvyn

mvillanu

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 5:44:07 PM6/17/04
to
mnhe...@msn.com (Mike Henley) wrote in message news:<6005702b.04061...@posting.google.com>...
> mvil...@hotmail.com (mvillanu) wrote in message news:<dc4a405f.0406...@posting.google.com>...
> > mnhe...@msn.com (Mike Henley) wrote in message news:<6005702b.04061...@posting.google.com>...
> > > I wondered about this for some time...
> > >
> > [snip]
> >
> > Before you do any more "wondering" why don't you take into
> > consideration the dominance of Western culture in the world, and the
> > effects of a few centuries of "white" colonization over "darker"
> > people...and what effects that has on contemporary standards of
> > beauty.
> >
> > Take it nice and easy though, we wouldn't want your synapses to fry
> > themselves from the mental overload...

Apologies for the ad hominem remark. I'll give you the benefit of
doubt…

> Regardless. Arab culture was dominant for centuries and still, Arabs
> loved white girls, the whiter the better, and didn't have much regard
> for dark ones.

And they filled up their harems with African girls, Polynesian girls,
Chinese, Korean, and Indian girls as well as European girls. They
conquered all of those regions, and one of the ways of projecting
power is to dominate the conquered women. You can find just as much
Arabic literature talking about non-European women as you can talking
about European women.

To tell you the truth I don't find Blonde/Blue-eyed women all that
attractive. If I had to choose among white girls, I'd go for a
brunette before I'd go for a blonde. But don't get me wrong, if a
Swedish supermodel wanted to sleep with me I won't turn her down.
Nevertheless I find someone like Famke Janssen more attractive than
Heidi Klume. And I find someone like Thandie Newton more attractive
then either of them.

I understand the effort in trying to come up with some sort of
biological/evolutionary explanation for why white women seem to be
more attractive. But your initial assumption is way off. You would
first need to establish a baseline that indeed shows that on average
men find white women more attractive than non-white women. And even
if you did establish such a thing you wind up ignoring cultural and
historical reasons that would better explain such a conclusion.

Let's start from scratch…

---Western European culture has dominated the world for the past 500
years.---
What effects does this have on standards of beauty? Well, those in
power tend to be seen as more beautiful, and the fact can't be denied
that white people have the power. They dominate the world and so by
default western European aesthetic features become the baseline beauty
standard. (Which is actually changing but we'll get back to this
later...)


---Western European culture has colonized much of the world---
Again, what effect does this have on standards of beauty? Well...one
of the effects of colonization is the desexualization of the colonized
men because power shifted away from them and into the hands of the
colonizers. Also the colonizer tends to perceive the colonized as
primitive, which lowers their sexual attractiveness because they are
seen as sweaty ugly barbarians. But men being the horn dogs that we
are, we will not deny ourselves a hot piece of a_s if we have access
to it so colonized women do not lose their sexual attractiveness. In
fact they become sexually-objectified by the male colonizer...these
women lose social and political power(ie.. sweet little innocent
thing) but they do not lose sexual power(bang all you want). Women
aren't horn dogs so female colonizers do not sexually-objectify
colonized men (social taboos play a big role)…the colonized men lose
social and political power(can't marry em), and lose sexual power as
well(if you have sex with one he actually raped you). In addition,
female colonizers are off limits to colonized males. Yet male
colonizers can take as many colonized females as they want. This
imbalance results in a super-sexualization of female colonizers
because we always want what we can't have.

---The world is becoming more integrated---
The previous paragraph, I would argue, holds true up until 20-30 years
ago. However the world has change a lot since then and beauty
standards are steadily expanding to include those of non-european
aesthetics. Nevertheless we still have remnants of it, which is why
we still have jokes like "Black Man's Kryptonite" from the movie
"Undercover Brother" and why you are perceiving that white women are
considered more attractive than non-white women.

Gary Bohn

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 5:54:23 PM6/17/04
to
mnhe...@msn.com (Mike Henley) wrote in
news:6005702b.04061...@posting.google.com:

> r norman <rsn_@_comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:<uif1d0teipbn17bil...@4ax.com>...
>>
>> Wow, I'll bet you can also tell a Frenchman from a German (though the
>> Alsations may be a problem)! And I'll bet you can even identify a
>> Jew just at a glance.
>
> My ex-wife and ex-inlaws were French, and quite often, in cosmopolitan
> cities, i correctly identified French people from a distance, though
> it's often been aided by fashion sense and body language. I have often
> also correctly identified people from a french ancestry.
>
> And i have quite a few close jewish friends, in fact, especially
> jewish girls, as over the past 2 years i can count 6 girls, to 3 or 4
> of them I have been within a handful of close friends, and to 2 (of
> the 3 or 4) i have been more than just friends. Ironically, when it
> comes to discussing a future, they all seem to have the mindset that
> they could date but would only wanna marry a jewish guy. Quite often i
> have correctly identified Jewish people "at a glance".
>
> What does this have to do with my post, though?
>
>> Probably distinguishing between a Baptist and a
>> Roman Catholic takes a little more discernment. But with careful
>> study I guess you could even tell whether a Lutheran was Missouri
>> Synod!
>>
>> Has anybody ever told you that Arabs and Turks are white (whatever
>> that means)?
>>
>> Has anybody ever told you what racism means?
>
> I know what racism means, I had an acquintance that i recently decided
> i no longer wanted to be friends with. She's an american white girl
> from an east european ancestry who just returned from Iraq, she
> clearly does not consider Arabs white, and apparently neither do most
> of the people with her in the US Army.
>
> Why did decide i no longer wanted to be friends with her? her racial
> slurs disgusted me.
>
>

Its very easy to assume you are racist because of the way you presented
your argument. If you are not, my apologies. I'm Scottish, Irish German
and I'm married to a North American Aboriginal so have been hyper-
sensitised to racial tensions.

I also know that many 'white' guys find Aboriginal\Asian women attractive
but since they view them as less than human are not tempted to date them.
Unfortunately when I run into someone that doesn't know my views, they
generally confide in me as another 'white' guy if the subject come up.


--
apatriot #23, aa #1779, Grand Pubba, EAC Department of Oxygen Deprivation
Gary Bohn
(Previously known as Pan Paniscus)

Conservatism is not about tradition and morality, hasn't been for many
decades...It is about the putative biological and spiritual superiority
of the wealthy.
Greg Bear

Mike Henley

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 6:32:47 PM6/17/04
to
e...@drizzle.com (Elf M. Sternberg) wrote in message news:<m3pt7yx...@drizzle.com>...

Halle Berry and Beyonce are examples of mixed babes.

Mike Henley

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 6:32:16 PM6/17/04
to
ecph...@hotmail.com (*Hemidactylus*) wrote in message news:<e6a845aa.04061...@posting.google.com>...

> >
> Yet she's "darker" than the typical woman of mostly nothern European
> ancestry and I'd hazard that lots of white guys find her very
> attractive, not just Austin Powers. She's prettier than quite a few
> "white" women. This attractiveness of Beyonce represents a data point
> challenging your assumptions about relative beauty.


Beyonce is an anomaly. Her beauty is well-managed. I'd hazard that
next to an ***equally attractive*** nordic babe most would go for the
white one.

>
> And you found this black friend of yours attractive. Given time and
> many more "convos" you never know...you might fall in love with her.
> >
> > It's true, even in the Black community, the fairer-skinned black girls
> > are more attractive.
> >
> Yet you see so many white womeen basking on the beach for that deeper
> darker tan, at least until they realize that skin cancer may be an
> important consideration.

Peach colored babes are not comparable to blacks or dark ones. The
color of a tanned white babe is much much different from a dark south
asian or african girl.

>
> I do note your snip of the rest of my post where I listed women other
> than Beyonce. She was one of several I listed. I wonder why you chose
> to exclude them.

no comment

Mike Henley

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 6:33:45 PM6/17/04
to
e...@drizzle.com (Elf M. Sternberg) wrote in message news:<m3n032x...@drizzle.com>...

tanned white babe skin is a lot different from dark or black skin.

Mike Henley

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 6:40:59 PM6/17/04
to
Eric Root <er...@swva.net> wrote in message news:<40D19A52...@swva.net>...

> Mike Henley wrote:
>
> It's not that they didn't have an affinity for dark girls, it's just that dark
> girls were a dime a dozen, light-skinned girls with unusual hair color were
> exotic and rare in the middle east.
> Also, we don't have true statistics on harems; did Turks who were closer to
> Europe than Africa think European women sexier than African, both of whom were
> different than their own women?

Yes, we have history. The mothers of many sultans were often Eastern
European. Both the Turks and the Islamic rulers in Egypt especially
liked babes from Russia and neighbouring countries.

Ancient Arabic poetry often marvels at fairness/paleness as a sign of
immense beauty.

Mike Henley

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 6:41:32 PM6/17/04
to
"Choppped Liver" <wat...@selway.umt.edu> wrote in message news:<tRhAc.6$gX4....@news.uswest.net>...
>
> No, because it was ill-founded, ill-informed, completely parochial,
> projected personal impulses, prejudices and limited experience to the world
> in general AND managed to offend every ethnicity and gender on the planet.

nonsense

Mike Henley

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 6:44:37 PM6/17/04
to
"Thomas H. Faller" <fal...@sgi.com> wrote in message news:<40D1B04B...@sgi.com>...
>
> Excuse me! My mistake: the original post wasn't just to make racist
> remarks, it was to gather replies so that the poster could try and impress
> us with how educated, liberal and tolerant he was. I guess someone isn't
> getting enough warm fuzzies at home! Okay everybody! Group hug
> for Mikey!
>
> Tom Faller

Actually, most of the replies aggravated me; there's nothing that
disgusts me more than the pretentious and hypocritical insistence on
"political correctness" (a misused term for what really is trendy
ignorance) eventhough it contradicts obvious reality.

Mike Henley

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 6:54:04 PM6/17/04
to
unrestra...@hotmail.com (Kermit) wrote in message news:<2b38d8c5.04061...@posting.google.com>...

>
> Well, I remember all the "white slavery" tales from the nineteenth
> century. Do you have any other supporting documentation, or is this
> revealed "knowledge"?
>
> Kermit

You guys annoy me. Dwell in ignorance, may you dwell happily.

p.s. you look up for widely available docu about the provenance of
women in the ottoman harems and andalusian dynasties.

Richard Clayton

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 6:56:58 PM6/17/04
to
John Harshman wrote:

Not as good Vivica Fox, but better than Danny DeVito.

John Harshman

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 7:09:33 PM6/17/04
to

Richard Clayton wrote:

> John Harshman wrote:
>
>
>>Richard Clayton wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Elf M. Sternberg wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>ecph...@hotmail.com (*Hemidactylus*) writes:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I'd like to volunteer as a test subject in an experiment determining
>>>>>my (ie- white bread "Nordic") attraction towards various females with
>>>>>African ancestry. Let's see maybe they could lure me with Beyonce,
>>>>>Gabrielle Union, Vivica Fox, Angela Bassett, or Arthel Neville. Hubba
>>>>>hubba! I'd be willing to volunteer in the name of science :-)
>>>>>
>>>> How, how, HOW could you forget Halle Berry?
>>>>
>>> Easily, and with relish. MOST OVERRATED ACTRESS EVER.
>>>
>>It's not her acting that's being discussed here. Focus. Does she look
>>good in a leather cat-suit?
>>
>
> Not as good Vivica Fox, but better than Danny DeVito.


Good. Danny can be the control. Now, does Halle look better or worse
than Michelle Pfeiffer in a leather cat-suit? Halle? or Michelle?
Michelle? or Halle? Now Danny again. Now Michelle and Halle together. I
hope you're recording these results.

Alan Morgan

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 7:48:14 PM6/17/04
to
In article <40D224FD...@pacbell.net>,

I think we need Viveca Fox and Halle Berry together (if you know what I mean
and I think you do) while I sit in a hot tub with Thandie Newton and Beyonce.

(Why yes, Ms. Newton, a backrub would be looooovely. How thoughtful of you to
ask)

Alan
--
Defendit numerus

R.Schenck

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 8:15:24 PM6/17/04
to
unrestra...@hotmail.com (Kermit) on 16 Jun 2004 posted

snip
>
> There was a study just a couple years back (I no longer have the cite)
> of racist students. They developed a questionnaire that determined
> whether or not a particular student was anti-Semetic. They then showed
> a list of photographs of other students to the test subject and asked
> whether or not the student in the photo was Jewish.
>
> The racist test subjects always expressed a high degree of certainty,
> much higher than the non-racist students. Yet the antiSemetic test
> subjects were no more or less accurate in guessing which students were
> Jewish by looking at the photos (slightly higher than random
> guessing).

And one should probably keep in mind that they are acting with just as much
accuracey and certainty when as a mob.

R.Schenck

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 8:17:59 PM6/17/04
to
Pithecanthropus Erectus <tuibguy1cr...@earthlink.net> on 16 Jun
2004 posted

> Cyde Weys wrote:


>> Not everyone thinks white girls are more attractive ...
>>
>> I agree with what someone else said; your post should be taken out
>> back, tied to a tree, and put out of its misery.
>>
>
> I vote for "reeducation."
> The EAC has camps for that kind of thing, you know.
>

don't you mean 'vee haf kampfs vir dot kinda ting' and shouldn't you be
twisting a well waxed moustache while saying this? There should definitely
be some clicking of heel either way :-)

R.Schenck

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 8:20:00 PM6/17/04
to
"Daniel Harper" <daniel...@terralink.net> on 17 Jun 2004 posted

> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:39:25 +0000, John Wilkins wrote:
>
>> Pithecanthropus Erectus <tuibguy1cr...@earthlink.net> wrote:

snip


>> I wonder if this is a vestige of the old prejudice that more refined
>> female members of European society had pale skin to show they never went
>> out in the sun (and hence didn't have to work in the fields). Not
>> biological, or course, but cultural.
>
> That one dates at least as far back as Homer. (The blind one, not the one
> on Fox.)


Ah yes, but everyone knows people with bright yellow skin, four fingers and
blue hair are totally hot. rrrrrrrawlllll

R.Schenck

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 9:16:50 PM6/17/04
to
mnhe...@msn.com (Mike Henley) on 17 Jun 2004 posted

> r norman <rsn_@_comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:<uif1d0teipbn17bil...@4ax.com>...
>>
>> Wow, I'll bet you can also tell a Frenchman from a German (though the
>> Alsations may be a problem)! And I'll bet you can even identify a
>> Jew just at a glance.
>
> My ex-wife and ex-inlaws were French, and quite often, in cosmopolitan
> cities, i correctly identified French people from a distance, though
> it's often been aided by fashion sense and body language. I have often
> also correctly identified people from a french ancestry.
>
> And i have quite a few close jewish friends, in fact, especially
> jewish girls, as over the past 2 years i can count 6 girls, to 3 or 4
> of them I have been within a handful of close friends, and to 2 (of
> the 3 or 4) i have been more than just friends. Ironically, when it
> comes to discussing a future, they all seem to have the mindset that
> they could date but would only wanna marry a jewish guy. Quite often i
> have correctly identified Jewish people "at a glance".
>
> What does this have to do with my post, though?

It shows that yer an idiot.


>
>> Probably distinguishing between a Baptist and a
>> Roman Catholic takes a little more discernment. But with careful
>> study I guess you could even tell whether a Lutheran was Missouri
>> Synod!
>>
>> Has anybody ever told you that Arabs and Turks are white (whatever
>> that means)?
>>
>> Has anybody ever told you what racism means?
>
> I know what racism means, I had an acquintance that i recently decided
> i no longer wanted to be friends with. She's an american white girl
> from an east european ancestry who just returned from Iraq, she
> clearly does not consider Arabs white, and apparently neither do most
> of the people with her in the US Army.
>
> Why did decide i no longer wanted to be friends with her? her racial
> slurs disgusted me.

The fact that you think pale women are universally considered more
beautiful than any other women disgusts me.

Mark Isaak

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 9:17:18 PM6/17/04
to
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 05:34:11 +0000 (UTC), mnhe...@msn.com (Mike
Henley) wrote:

>I believe that i am part black. . .

You are 100% black. There is only one race of humans, and it is of
African ancestry. I doubt you live in Africa, so you probably are not
even a member of any of the most genetically diverse or divergent
groups.

In some instances, preference for skin color reflects class
discrimination. In Europe and North America, when most women worked
in the field, having a lighter skin was associated with having wealth
enough to spend time indoors, so lighter skin was favored. After the
industrial revolution, the situation was reversed. Then having a tan
meant you had the wealth to take vacations from the factories.

In other instances, preference is pure racial bigotry, with which I am
sure you are very well acquainted.

--
Mark Isaak eciton (at) earthlink (dot) net
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are
being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and
exposing the country to danger." -- Hermann Goering

R.Schenck

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 9:31:44 PM6/17/04
to
"Daniel Harper" <daniel...@terralink.net> on 17 Jun 2004 posted

> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:18:47 +0000, Matt Silberstein wrote:
>

snip


>> And Lilith, on _Cheers_ was considered *unattractive* in part because
>> of her white skin. Tastes change over time.
>
> And Lilith, on talk.origins? <grrwl>
>
> Also note that within the USA-ian media, most of the "sex symbol" pop
> stars are now men and women of color.

Are they? I bet if one did a study that one would find that wasn't true,
but there has certainly been something of a proliferation recently.
Anyway BEt and perhaps Telemundo/Univision would disagree with your
observation. Maybe UPN would too...

> Even the "white" sex symbols
> generally have dark tans or other, what you might call, "non-Aryan"
> qualities.

I guess J.lo, entschliden zee, i mean mrs. marcus antonnius would
disagree with the thread originator too. Ever see her when she was a
'fly girl'? Super pale. Not just 'caucasian' or whatever, but she was
damned pale. And you'll notice that they make whitener for your teeth,
but everyone is buying bronzer for their skins. Hell, people also tan
outside, go to special stores to tan from radiation, and even have
machines that spray them all at once to become tanner.


>
> There are exceptions, of course,

Most certainly. I've noticed that many "dark skinned' peoples, not in
the US or even europe I think but in other parts of the world, will
bleach their skin or even use foundation that is very light coloured.

I think that if one studied it systematically one would find that these
populations were formally colonized by europeans, perhaps specifically
brits (those pasty bastards...). It seems to be rather common for a
population 'dominated' (handle carefully, highly explosive) by a foreign
one to begin to adopt its traits, but usually thats in more
straightforward and useful matters of material culture/technology and
language. Nevertheless I think there's something to it. I seriously
doubt that populations of 'dark skinned' peoples just out of nowhere
decided that being 'light skinned' is a good thing.

I recall my history teacher in high school talking about how natives in
africa supposedly thought that these terrible people walking around the
village were dead bodies or something, because thats what a dead exposed
body will come to look like. Either way, unless yer a goth or something,
looking like a corpse has never been considered a compliment.

> but then again I am talking about the
> nonsense of "pop-culture" here. ;->
>

Amusingly enough the prduct/brand 'Pop Tarts' is hosting some concert of
American Idol people near me. Pop Tarts man. Awesome, they had to know!

Anyway, wasn't it Darwin who figured that the different human 'races'
were a result of a type of sexual selection? Where the different
'races' diverged from one another because the different disparate
populations had developed their own independant ideals of beauty? I
suppose thats another one of those 'interesting...but wrong' ideas.

R.Schenck

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 9:35:07 PM6/17/04
to
Pithecanthropus Erectus <tuibguy1cr...@earthlink.net> on 16 Jun
2004 posted

> John Wilkins wrote:
>
>> John Harshman <jharshman....@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>John Wilkins wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Matt Silberstein <mat...@ix.netcom.nospam> wrote:
snip
>>>Hey, do I insult Australians? Oh, that's right. I do. Never mind.
>>
>>
>> We'd be disappointed if you'all didn't :-) If we couldn't hate Yanks,
>> we'd have to pick on someone else, like Canadians or something.
>
> *Move* over America; there's a new asshole on the map! I've had it up
to
> here with your skiing heroes! I've had it up to here with your
> mountains! I've had it up to here with your secret *bank* accounts!
From
> now on, Switzerland, your name is mud.


Fahkers can't even make cheese without putting holes in it...

I say everyone makes it the Tochrians. They're extinct, so they can't
fight back, stupid pacifistic Tochrians. Not the Tochrian A's tho,
they're allright, its those lousey Tochrian B bastards, wiht
their...horses, and .... steppes.

R.Schenck

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 9:36:58 PM6/17/04
to
ecph...@hotmail.com (*Hemidactylus*) on 17 Jun 2004 posted

> Pithecanthropus Erectus <tuibguy1cr...@earthlink.net> wrote in
> message news:<0H7Ac.7660$Wr....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...

>> John Wilkins wrote:
>>
>> > John Harshman <jharshman....@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>John Wilkins wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>Matt Silberstein <mat...@ix.netcom.nospam> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>

>> >>>>On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:07:06 +0000 (UTC), mnhe...@msn.com (Mike
>> >>>>Henley) wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>[snip]
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>I just had a convo with a friend and it occured to me that being
>> >>>>>sexier could be an evolutionary adaptation by white girls to
>> >>>>>attract males and generate heat in cold climates through closer
>> >>>>>physical proximity and tactile affection. You could say that the
>> >>>>>sexier white girls got naturally selected in the harsh, cold
>> >>>>>northen climate, more so than darker girls in moderate climates.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>I suspect that white girls are sexier because white boys are so
>> >>>>unsexy and so rarely attracted to girls. If white girls were not
>> >>>>so sexy then whites would die out.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>[snip]
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>That explains California Girls, then.

>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Hey, do I insult Australians? Oh, that's right. I do. Never mind.
>> >
>> >
>> > We'd be disappointed if you'all didn't :-) If we couldn't hate
>> > Yanks, we'd have to pick on someone else, like Canadians or
>> > something.
>>
>> *Move* over America; there's a new asshole on the map! I've had it up
>> to here with your skiing heroes! I've had it up to here with your
>> mountains! I've had it up to here with your secret *bank* accounts!
>> From now on, Switzerland, your name is mud.
>>

> And who the heck wants to buy cheese with a bunch of holes in it? What
> a ripoff. And enough of that Basle lovin' Nietzsche already!
>

N was swiss? Those swiss bastards with their nazi this and nazi that,
next they'll be saying that change in organisms can best be explained by
a process of natural selection, stupid swiss

R.Schenck

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 9:40:16 PM6/17/04
to
Chris Thompson <ctho...@TAKEOUTbmcc.cuny.edu> on 17 Jun 2004 posted

>> mvil...@hotmail.com (mvillanu) wrote in message
>> news:<dc4a405f.0406...@posting.google.com>...
>>> mnhe...@msn.com (Mike Henley) wrote in message
>>> news:<6005702b.04061...@posting.google.com>...
>>> > I wondered about this for some time...
>>> >
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>> Before you do any more "wondering" why don't you take into
>>> consideration the dominance of Western culture in the world, and the
>>> effects of a few centuries of "white" colonization over "darker"
>>> people...and what effects that has on contemporary standards of
>>> beauty.
>>>
>>> Take it nice and easy though, we wouldn't want your synapses to fry
>>> themselves from the mental overload...
>>

>> Regardless. Arab culture was dominant for centuries and still, Arabs
>> loved white girls, the whiter the better, and didn't have much regard
>> for dark ones.
>>
>

> That explains why Egyptians and Saudis are so pale today.
>
> mc092!jh&^#N_)@J@k_#
>
> Sorry, had to pound my head on the keyboard for a minute.
>
> Hey, let's bring the Constitution thread together with this one. Then
> we can talk about Thomas Jefforson's kids!
>

Didn't they move on up, to the east side? I think it was a deluxe
apartment in the sky no? Oh, wait, different Jeffersons. Wheezy woulda
made a good first lady.

Tom McDonald

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 9:44:15 PM6/17/04
to
Alan Morgan wrote:

<snip>

> I think we need Viveca Fox and Halle Berry together (if you know what I mean
> and I think you do) while I sit in a hot tub with Thandie Newton and Beyonce.
>
> (Why yes, Ms. Newton, a backrub would be looooovely. How thoughtful of you to
> ask)

EWWW! They are all dusky women! Yuck!

Now, give me a threesome with Rosanne Barr and Barbara Bush.
So pale, so loverly, so white. Yowsa!

Tom McDonald

P.S.: Room for me in that hot tub? PLEASE!?

TSM

John Wilkins

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 10:06:39 PM6/17/04
to
R.Schenck <nygdan_mo...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Now now. There's no need to bridle at them.
--
Dr John Wilkins
john...@wilkins.id.au http://wilkins.id.au
"Men mark it when they hit, but do not mark it when they miss"
- Francis Bacon

mel turner

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 10:08:27 PM6/17/04
to
In article <2jev8fF...@uni-berlin.de>, nygdan_mo...@yahoo.com
[R.Schenck] wrote...

But if we make it the Flemish, then everone can go around
muttering "Stupid Flanders..."

cheers


Harlequin

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 10:27:49 PM6/17/04
to

> ecph...@hotmail.com (*Hemidactylus*) wrote in message
> news:<e6a845aa.0406...@posting.google.com>...
>> >
>> >
>> > But it does present interesting possibilities for research. It's
>> > rather reminiscent of the "women have one less rib" theory in that
>> > regard.

>> >
>> I'd like to volunteer as a test subject in an experiment determining
>> my (ie- white bread "Nordic") attraction towards various females with
>> African ancestry. Let's see maybe they could lure me with Beyonce,
>

> A year ago, last summer, I recall a chat with a BLACK FRIEND, a girl,
> of clear African ancestry about this. I told her that I found beyonce
> attractive, (I also found that black girl friend - not girlfriend -
> attractive), you know what she told me? She said that beyonce is not a
> good example of a black girl at all, and her lightness (of color) is
> one main reason many black guys find her especially hot.


>
> It's true, even in the Black community, the fairer-skinned black girls
> are more attractive.

This is probably a social phenomena. What we consider to be beauty
is affected by what we are told is beauty. It is also affected
by what we see around us.


--
Anti-spam: replace "usenet" with "harlequin2"

"...To deny that basic concepts of historical method with respect to
evolution is worse than just denying science; it is denying simple
common sense. Down that road lies only solipsism or schizophrenia,
neither of which can be used for examination of the outside world."
- Daniel Harper

Jon Hall

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 10:38:47 PM6/17/04
to

"Mike Henley" <mnhe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:6005702b.0406...@posting.google.com...

> ecph...@hotmail.com (*Hemidactylus*) wrote in message
news:<e6a845aa.04061...@posting.google.com>...
>
> > >
> > Yet she's "darker" than the typical woman of mostly nothern European
> > ancestry and I'd hazard that lots of white guys find her very
> > attractive, not just Austin Powers. She's prettier than quite a few
> > "white" women. This attractiveness of Beyonce represents a data point
> > challenging your assumptions about relative beauty.
>
>
> Beyonce is an anomaly. Her beauty is well-managed. I'd hazard that
> next to an ***equally attractive*** nordic babe most would go for the
> white one.

So you're asserting that a woman's level of attractiveness is determined by
the percentage of men attracted to her. In that case, if most men prefer one
woman over the other, then the women are not ***equally attractive***.

In other words, you've failed to make any sort of point at all here.

--
Jon Hall

"Isidore was an industrious, if indiscriminate, scholar. . . . His work is a
farrago of weird etymologies, incredible miracles, fanciful allegorical
interpretations of the Scriptures, science and history distorted to prove
moral principles, and factual errors that a little observation would have
set straight. His book stands as a lasting monument to the ignorance of his
time."

--Will Durant on St. Isidore of Seville, proposed patron saint of the
Internet

Matt Silberstein

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 10:47:06 PM6/17/04
to
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 22:32:16 +0000 (UTC), mnhe...@msn.com (Mike
Henley) wrote:

>ecph...@hotmail.com (*Hemidactylus*) wrote in message news:<e6a845aa.04061...@posting.google.com>...
>
>> >
>> Yet she's "darker" than the typical woman of mostly nothern European
>> ancestry and I'd hazard that lots of white guys find her very
>> attractive, not just Austin Powers. She's prettier than quite a few
>> "white" women. This attractiveness of Beyonce represents a data point
>> challenging your assumptions about relative beauty.
>
>
>Beyonce is an anomaly. Her beauty is well-managed. I'd hazard that
>next to an ***equally attractive*** nordic babe most would go for the
>white one.
>

Ah, your point is that "most" are racist. Given to equally
(physically) attractive women I would like to think I would go with
the one with the best sense of humor. (In fact, I would go with either
one who would give me a second look, but that is an entirely different
subject.)

That said, Beyonce is way too skinny.


[snip]


--
Matt Silberstein

Do in order to understand.

Matt Silberstein

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 10:57:17 PM6/17/04
to
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 05:48:51 +0000 (UTC), mnhe...@msn.com (Mike
Henley) wrote:

>r norman <rsn_@_comcast.net> wrote in message news:<uif1d0teipbn17bil...@4ax.com>...
>>
>> Wow, I'll bet you can also tell a Frenchman from a German (though the
>> Alsations may be a problem)! And I'll bet you can even identify a
>> Jew just at a glance.
>
>My ex-wife and ex-inlaws were French, and quite often, in cosmopolitan
>cities, i correctly identified French people from a distance, though
>it's often been aided by fashion sense and body language. I have often
>also correctly identified people from a french ancestry.
>
>And i have quite a few close jewish friends, in fact, especially
>jewish girls, as over the past 2 years i can count 6 girls, to 3 or 4
>of them I have been within a handful of close friends, and to 2 (of
>the 3 or 4) i have been more than just friends. Ironically, when it
>comes to discussing a future, they all seem to have the mindset that
>they could date but would only wanna marry a jewish guy. Quite often i
>have correctly identified Jewish people "at a glance".
>
>What does this have to do with my post, though?

It just confirms the racism. Thanks.

>> Probably distinguishing between a Baptist and a
>> Roman Catholic takes a little more discernment. But with careful
>> study I guess you could even tell whether a Lutheran was Missouri
>> Synod!
>>
>> Has anybody ever told you that Arabs and Turks are white (whatever
>> that means)?
>>
>> Has anybody ever told you what racism means?
>
>I know what racism means, I had an acquintance that i recently decided
>i no longer wanted to be friends with. She's an american white girl
>from an east european ancestry who just returned from Iraq, she
>clearly does not consider Arabs white, and apparently neither do most
>of the people with her in the US Army.
>
>Why did decide i no longer wanted to be friends with her? her racial
>slurs disgusted me.

You prefer your own?

AC

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 11:10:20 PM6/17/04
to
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 01:31:44 +0000 (UTC),
R.Schenck <nygdan_mo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I guess J.lo, entschliden zee, i mean mrs. marcus antonnius would
> disagree with the thread originator too.

I wonder if anybody has told Ms. Lopez what happened to the last woman by
that name.

--
Aaron Clausen
mightym...@hotmail.com

David Jensen

unread,
Jun 17, 2004, 11:26:29 PM6/17/04
to
In talk.origins, "R.Schenck" <nygdan_mo...@yahoo.com> wrote in
<2jevi0F...@uni-berlin.de>:

Get real, Wheezy would have been president. No one would have wanted
George.

Daniel Harper

unread,
Jun 18, 2004, 1:13:18 AM6/18/04
to

Perhaps if you would post something that resembles reality you might get
more people to agree with you.

(BTW, I would not necessarily characterize you as a "racist", but I do
think you are very ignorant and misguided.)

--
Finding a scientific theory of creation is a bit like parsing /dev/null.

--Daniel Harper

(change terra to earth for email)

Floyd

unread,
Jun 18, 2004, 1:40:39 AM6/18/04
to
KelvynT <webdo...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<78t3d0hipnvpbv9uo...@4ax.com>...
> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:52:16 +0000 (UTC), Tom McDonald wrote:
>
> >Thomas H. Faller wrote:
> >
> >> Mike Henley scribbled:
> >>
> >> <obvious racist troll snipped>
> >>
> >> This guy has never been in Mississippi on a Saturday night.
> >> I'd call this argument from ignorance.
> >>
> >> Tom Faller
> >>
> >
> > A few years ago, I saw a copy of my Scottish
> >great-grandparents' marriage certificate. They were from the
> >same small area near Skye in the Western Highlands, then about
> >the whitest place you could find. Their certificate noted that
> >they were 'Cousins German'. A bit of research showed that
> >'cousins German' meant 'first cousins'. It was very common in
> >that place at that time for cousins to marry.
> >
> > I suspect that this is more common where the populations are
> >relatively sparse, and not very mobile. Skin color has zilch to
> >do with it.
> >
> >Tom McDonald
>
> It was also very common in Victorian times, especially among the
> aristocracy and wealthy families, as a way of keeping the wealth in
> the family.
>
> Kelvyn

The name Emma Wedgewood comes to mind.

*Hemidactylus*

unread,
Jun 18, 2004, 2:29:16 AM6/18/04
to
"R.Schenck" <nygdan_mo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<2jevbpF...@uni-berlin.de>...
I think Fritz was German but he was a professor of philology or some
such at the university in Basel. He was there with the Swiss historian
Jacob Burckhardt. Both had some influence on that best known of
archetypally Swiss Carl Jung. Allen Dulles did some OSS work in
Switzerland during WWII which just goes to show you how that dismal
country draws them all in like flies to holey cheese. Heck it even
attracted some of the Rockefeller clan towards the aforementioned
archetypal Swiss guru whom had developed an aversion for Vienna and
its cigar toteming patriarch.

Swiss cheese with holes and Vienna sausages. I leave it to others to
appreciate the symbology.

Mitchell Coffey

unread,
Jun 18, 2004, 2:45:58 AM6/18/04
to
mnhe...@msn.com (Mike Henley) wrote in message news:<6005702b.0406...@posting.google.com>...
> e...@drizzle.com (Elf M. Sternberg) wrote in message news:<m3n032x...@drizzle.com>...
> > mnhe...@msn.com (Mike Henley) writes:
> >
> > > It's politically incorrect to say, for example, that many black women
> > > use skin bleaching products eventhoug they do?
> >
> > And while it's not politically incorrect to say so, lots of
> > white girls get into tanning booths. What's your point? There's always
> > a population that thinks that "otherness" and "exoticism" is erotic or
> > attractive in some other way, and will act accordingly.
> >
> > Elf
>
> tanned white babe skin is a lot different from dark or black skin.

Right, and with unlimited special pleading all data can be made to fit
any theory.

Here's a thought experiment for you. Imagine two scientific polls in
1931 investigating the opinions of young, white heterosexual men
regarding the attractiveness of black women: One in Atlanta, Georgia;
the other in Paris, France. Now imagine these two polls repeated in
2004. How do you thing these surveys would shape up?

Mitchell Coffey

Daniel Harper

unread,
Jun 18, 2004, 3:17:03 AM6/18/04
to
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 01:31:44 +0000, R.Schenck wrote:

> "Daniel Harper" <daniel...@terralink.net> on 17 Jun 2004 posted
>
>> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:18:47 +0000, Matt Silberstein wrote:
>>
> snip
>>> And Lilith, on _Cheers_ was considered *unattractive* in part because
>>> of her white skin. Tastes change over time.
>>
>> And Lilith, on talk.origins? <grrwl>
>>
>> Also note that within the USA-ian media, most of the "sex symbol" pop
>> stars are now men and women of color.
>
> Are they? I bet if one did a study that one would find that wasn't true,
> but there has certainly been something of a proliferation recently. Anyway
> BEt and perhaps Telemundo/Univision would disagree with your observation.
> Maybe UPN would too...
>

Actually, _my_ opinion was that most "sex symbols" were non-white. I think
here you're referring to the original poster.

<snip all material even tangentially related to talk.origins, for I am
completely off-topic at this point>

And, just to prove that I have way too much time on my hands, I did a
little informal survey of VH1's "100 Hottest Hotties" list (available at
VH1.com). First I removed all the men from the hundred (because, dammit,
it's my survey and I'll do what I want to) leaving fifty-eight of the
hotties to survey. I looked at the list and determined what the skin/hair
color of the hotties was. For those whose assets were unfamiliar to me, I
spent a bit of time looking up the names on the IMDB -- I went with the
main image on the actress's main page. For simplicity, I merely went with
white/not-white and blonde/not-blonde. The abbreviations should be
obvious. Many of these actresses have changed their hair color at times; I
went with whatever the most recent look I could remember was.
Disagreements on that matter should go to /dev/null. Here's the list:

100 Amy Smart (w/b)
98 Jessica Biel (w/nb)
96 Vivica A. Fox (nw/nb)
95 Heather Graham (w/b)
93 Lucy Lui (nw/nb)
91 Keira Knightley (w/b)
90 Courteney Cox (w/b)
88 Olsen Twins (w/b)*
86 Serena Williams (nw/nb)
85 Ashley Judd (w/nb)
83 Shakira (nw/b)
81 Charlize Theron (w/b)
80 Adrianna Lima (nw/nb)**
79 Alyssa Milano (w/nb)
77 Christina Aguilera (w/b)***
75 Kylie Minogue (w/nb)
73 Brittany Murphy (w/b)
71 Eva Mendes (nw/nb)
69 Sarah Michelle Gellar (w/b)
67 Gabrielle Union (nw/nb)
66 Scarlett Johannsen (w/b)
64 Penelope Cruz (nw/nb)
63 Ashanti (nw/nb)
62 Jenna Jameson (w/b)
60 Rebecca Romijn Stamos (w/b)
58 Kate Bosworth (w/b)
56 Laura Prepon (w/nb)
54 Tyra Banks (nw/nb)
52 Naomi Watts (w/b)
50 Catherine Zeta-Jones (w/nb)
48 Julia Roberts (w/nb)
46 Jessica Alba (w/nb)
44 Heather Locklear (w/b)
43 Mandy Moore (w/nb)
41 Katie Holmes (w/nb)
42 Brooke Burns (nw/nb)
38 Kate Hudson (w/b)
36 Gisele (w/nb)
35 Kate Beckinsale (w/nb)
33 Gwen Stefani (w/b)
31 Nicole Kidman (w/nb) ****
30 Denise Richards (w/nb)
28 Diane Lane (w/nb)
26 Anna Kournikova (w/b)
25 Salma Hayek (nw/nb)
23 Carmen Electra (w/nb)
22 Demi Moore (w/nb)
20 Jessica Simpson (w/b)
19 Jennifer Aniston (w/nb)
17 Cameron Diaz (w/b)
15 Mischa Barton (w/nb)
13 Jennifer Garner (w/nb)
11 J. Lo's Ass (nw/nb)*****
9 Pam Anderson (w/b)
7 Halle Berry (nw/nb)
4 Britney Spears (w/b)
2 Angelina Jolie (w/nb)
1 Beyonce (nw/nb)

*The Olsen Twins were counted as one on the VH1 list, and who am I to
argue?

**No pics on main page of IMDB -- I found an image gallery and went with
the flow.

***I know that Christina Aguilera is supposedly "ethnic". Whatever.

****Nicole Kidman's been changing her hair a lot lately. In her most
recent movie she has dark hair. Good enough for me.

*****Yes, she is really listed as "J. Lo's Ass" on the list. And no, I'm
not making any jokes about the hair color on J. Lo's Ass. Not a one.

Of this list, thirty-five of the fifty-eight are non-blonde, and fifteen of
the fifty-eight are non-white. (There is one who is both non-white and
blonde, the singer Shakira.) Of the non-whites, seven are generic
"ethnic", seven are black, and one is Asian (Lucy Liu). So that while
non-whites do not dominate the list numerically, non-blondes do. Also note
that the top of the list is more non-white, non-blonde than the list as a
whole; the top four positions are all non-blonde, and only one of those is
white. The top white is that annoyingly artificial Pam Anderson.

If one takes Amy Smart as 1 and Beyonce as 58, and average all the scores,
then whites have a total score of 1322, and an average score of 30.74.
Non-whites have a total score of 399, and an averaage score of 26.60.
Blondes have a total score of 570 and an average score of 25.90.
Non-blondes have a total score of 1124 and an average score of 32.11.

All of which proves conclusively that I have way too much time on my
hands. And probably watch too much TV. And since I've probably made an
arithmetic error somewhere above, that I was just wasting my time to begin
with. But then again, I knew that anyway.

*Hemidactylus*

unread,
Jun 18, 2004, 3:23:49 AM6/18/04
to
"R.Schenck" <nygdan_mo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<2jev8fF...@uni-berlin.de>...

> Pithecanthropus Erectus <tuibguy1cr...@earthlink.net> on 16 Jun
> 2004 posted
>
> > John Wilkins wrote:
> >
> >> John Harshman <jharshman....@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>John Wilkins wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Matt Silberstein <mat...@ix.netcom.nospam> wrote:
> snip
> >>>Hey, do I insult Australians? Oh, that's right. I do. Never mind.
> >>
> >>
> >> We'd be disappointed if you'all didn't :-) If we couldn't hate Yanks,
> >> we'd have to pick on someone else, like Canadians or something.
> >
> > *Move* over America; there's a new asshole on the map! I've had it up
> to
> > here with your skiing heroes! I've had it up to here with your
> > mountains! I've had it up to here with your secret *bank* accounts!
> From
> > now on, Switzerland, your name is mud.
>
>
> Fahkers can't even make cheese without putting holes in it...
>
>
And their darned snooty claims of Swiss neutrality. Plus those army
knives with all the fancy gadgets.

When reading up on the life story of Jacob Burckhardt a couple years
ago, I encountered the sonderbund or the conflict between Protestants
and Catholics during the 19th century. Jesuits were not looked upon
all too kindly. Dierdre Bair highlights this in her recent biography
of Jung.

Matt Silberstein

unread,
Jun 18, 2004, 8:51:47 AM6/18/04
to
I nominate this for a new category, Off Topic Post of the Month.

It was inventive, thorough, "scientific", humorous, and just plain
pointless.

--

Mitchell Coffey

unread,
Jun 18, 2004, 8:58:21 AM6/18/04
to
john...@wilkins.id.au (John Wilkins) wrote in message news:<1gfj09h.7mmf4d182u80fN%john...@wilkins.id.au>...

> Pithecanthropus Erectus <tuibguy1cr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > John Wilkins wrote:
> >
> > > John Harshman <jharshman....@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>John Wilkins wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>Matt Silberstein <mat...@ix.netcom.nospam> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:07:06 +0000 (UTC), mnhe...@msn.com (Mike
> > >>>>Henley) wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>[snip]
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>I just had a convo with a friend and it occured to me that being
> > >>>>>sexier could be an evolutionary adaptation by white girls to attract
> > >>>>>males and generate heat in cold climates through closer physical
> > >>>>>proximity and tactile affection. You could say that the sexier white
> > >>>>>girls got naturally selected in the harsh, cold northen climate, more
> > >>>>>so than darker girls in moderate climates.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>I suspect that white girls are sexier because white boys are so unsexy
> > >>>>and so rarely attracted to girls. If white girls were not so sexy then
> > >>>>whites would die out.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>[snip]
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>That explains California Girls, then.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Hey, do I insult Australians? Oh, that's right. I do. Never mind.
> > >
> > >
> > > We'd be disappointed if you'all didn't :-) If we couldn't hate Yanks,
> > > we'd have to pick on someone else, like Canadians or something.
> >
> > *Move* over America; there's a new asshole on the map! I've had it up to
> > here with your skiing heroes! I've had it up to here with your
> > mountains! I've had it up to here with your secret *bank* accounts! From
> > now on, Switzerland, your name is mud.
>
> I recall seeing a wonderful film with Peter Falk in it (and Keanu Reeves
> and Barbara Hershey, no doubt another sockpuppet) in which he spends
> most of the time warning people about them Romanians (or was it
> Bulgarians? - it's a long time ago).
>
> It was called "Aunt Julia and the Scriptwriter" from a novel by Mario
> Vargas Llosa, but in the US it got called "Tune in Tomorrow"
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100822/

They made a movie of Aunt Julia and the Scriptwriter?! Staring Peter
Falk, no less, as the 50-year-old scriptwriter, who is always throwing
into his stories lines about how science had proven that at fifty men
were at their peek intellectual and physical form? (It's true, you
know.) A truly great novel.

Also, it's a shame, given events, Llosa didn't beat Fugimoro for
President of Peru.

Mitchell Coffey

mdotcoffeyatstarpowerdotnet

Mitchell Coffey

unread,
Jun 18, 2004, 8:59:51 AM6/18/04
to
john...@wilkins.id.au (John Wilkins) wrote in message news:<1gfitzi.10exf51j46ocdN%john...@wilkins.id.au>...

> Matt Silberstein <mat...@ix.netcom.nospam> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:07:06 +0000 (UTC), mnhe...@msn.com (Mike
> > Henley) wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > >I just had a convo with a friend and it occured to me that being
> > >sexier could be an evolutionary adaptation by white girls to attract
> > >males and generate heat in cold climates through closer physical
> > >proximity and tactile affection. You could say that the sexier white
> > >girls got naturally selected in the harsh, cold northen climate, more
> > >so than darker girls in moderate climates.
> >
> > I suspect that white girls are sexier because white boys are so unsexy
> > and so rarely attracted to girls. If white girls were not so sexy then
> > whites would die out.
> >
> > [snip]
>
> That explains California Girls, then.

Hey, wait, *I'm* from California...

Mitchell Coffey

mdotcoffeyatstarpowerdotnet

Mitchell Coffey

unread,
Jun 18, 2004, 9:03:35 AM6/18/04
to
john...@wilkins.id.au (John Wilkins) wrote in message news:<1gfivg5.1szsnnkp0o1wN%john...@wilkins.id.au>...

> John Harshman <jharshman....@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > John Wilkins wrote:
> >
> > > Matt Silberstein <mat...@ix.netcom.nospam> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:07:06 +0000 (UTC), mnhe...@msn.com (Mike
> > >>Henley) wrote:
> > >>
> > >>[snip]
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>I just had a convo with a friend and it occured to me that being
> > >>>sexier could be an evolutionary adaptation by white girls to attract
> > >>>males and generate heat in cold climates through closer physical
> > >>>proximity and tactile affection. You could say that the sexier white
> > >>>girls got naturally selected in the harsh, cold northen climate, more
> > >>>so than darker girls in moderate climates.
> > >>>
> > >>I suspect that white girls are sexier because white boys are so unsexy
> > >>and so rarely attracted to girls. If white girls were not so sexy then
> > >>whites would die out.
> > >>
> > >>[snip]
> > >>
> > >
> > > That explains California Girls, then.
> >
> >
> > Hey, do I insult Australians? Oh, that's right. I do. Never mind.
>
> We'd be disappointed if you'all didn't :-) If we couldn't hate Yanks,
> we'd have to pick on someone else, like Canadians or something.

In the future, when preparing to post remarks of this character, it
might be best to consider that, according to a Justice Department
finding, torture is legal in this country...

Mitchell Coffey

mdotcoffeyatstarpowerdotnet

It is loading more messages.
0 new messages