Allergies in modern urbanized people or a "In a healthy body a healthy spirit"
Mark
remember, that one of the main ideas is that development of agriculture
and particularly, the breeding of cows, pigs, chicken, oat and other
domesticated animals (altogether I beleive is just 14???) had made the
biggest effect on development of human society and specially on why
some cultures are technologically advanced ans some are not.
It also explains defeat and almost extinction of American Indians
mostly not because of the power of the gun but because of the lack of
the immunity to deseases initially known to be in animals, but later
transmitted to humans.
So, being close to animals and specially livestock should have strong
correlation with allergies experienced by modern urbanized people.
There is just no way, that animals that have lived real close to people
for good last 20,000 years of human history and now are not anymore, do
not affect very strongly lives and health of humans.
Also, you do not have to go so far for research, but just talk to older
folks and they will tell you how good it is to send a child for at
least couple of months to live on a farm and get away from stinking
city.
Or see how kids living on the farm today when coming to study and stay
in the city colledge by 2-3rd year obviously outperform their city
collegues. Or see how children immigrants studying in US colleges
posess so obvious and unique quality to work so hard?
Would not you relate it to health also?
There is an old Roman expression. I am not sure if my translation to
English is correct, but it is : "In a healthy body a healthy spirit"
rupert....@gmail.com
Mark wrote:
> If anybody have read a book "Guns Germs And Steel", you probably
> remember, that one of the main ideas is that development of agriculture
> and particularly, the breeding of cows, pigs, chicken, oat and other
> domesticated animals (altogether I beleive is just 14???) had made the
> biggest effect on development of human society and specially on why
> some cultures are technologically advanced ans some are not.
>
> It also explains defeat and almost extinction of American Indians
> mostly not because of the power of the gun but because of the lack of
> the immunity to deseases initially known to be in animals, but later
> transmitted to humans.
>
> So, being close to animals and specially livestock should have strong
> correlation with allergies experienced by modern urbanized people.
>
> There is just no way, that animals that have lived real close to people
> for good last 20,000 years of human history and now are not anymore, do
> not affect very strongly lives and health of humans.
>
> Also, you do not have to go so far for research, but just talk to older
> folks and they will tell you how good it is to send a child for at
> least couple of months to live on a farm and get away from stinking
> city.
>
> Or see how kids living on the farm today when coming to study and stay
> in the city colledge by 2-3rd year obviously outperform their city
> collegues.
Cite, please.
> Or see how children immigrants studying in US colleges
> posess so obvious and unique quality to work so hard?
Possibly. I doubt it depends on whether they immigrated from the
countryside or a city, though.
> Would not you relate it to health also?
>
> There is an old Roman expression. I am not sure if my translation to
> English is correct, but it is : "In a healthy body a healthy spirit"
mens sana in corpore sano
Kleuskes & Moos
rupert....@gmail.com schreef:
<snip>
> > Would not you relate it to health also?
> >
> > There is an old Roman expression. I am not sure if my translation to
> > English is correct, but it is : "In a healthy body a healthy spirit"
>
> mens sana in corpore sano
And not, as i've seen it:
"mens sana in corpore sauna."
Kleuskes & Moos
rupert....@gmail.com schreef:
<snip>
> > Would not you relate it to health also?
> >
> > There is an old Roman expression. I am not sure if my translation to
> > English is correct, but it is : "In a healthy body a healthy spirit"
>
> mens sana in corpore sano
And not, as i've seen it:
Kleuskes & Moos
rupert....@gmail.com schreef:
<snip>
> > Would not you relate it to health also?
> >
> > There is an old Roman expression. I am not sure if my translation to
> > English is correct, but it is : "In a healthy body a healthy spirit"
>
> mens sana in corpore sano
And not, as i've seen it:
Windy
Why not? Seems about right to me... or should that be "...in sauna"? ;)
-- w.
Kermit
Mark wrote:
> If anybody have read a book "Guns Germs And Steel", you probably
> remember, that one of the main ideas is that development of agriculture
> and particularly, the breeding of cows, pigs, chicken, oat and other
> domesticated animals (altogether I beleive is just 14???) had made the
> biggest effect on development of human society and specially on why
> some cultures are technologically advanced ans some are not.
I have only recently started this book; I admire his writing very much.
I am curious though - whenever he lists domestic animals he does not
mention dogs. Only food animals. Dogs were our first non-human friends;
our symbiotic relationship started with (probably) little intention or
effort. Once we had the idea, domesticating other animals seemed more
obvious as we settled down.
Temple Grandin in her book "Animals in Translation" says that new
genetic analysis indicates that dogs may have been domesticated for the
last 100,000 years. She also speculates that this long-term partnership
may have shaped us to a consierable degree.
Humans and dogs seem to understand each other emotionally / socially
quite well.
>
> It also explains defeat and almost extinction of American Indians
> mostly not because of the power of the gun but because of the lack of
> the immunity to deseases initially known to be in animals, but later
> transmitted to humans.
>
> So, being close to animals and specially livestock should have strong
> correlation with allergies experienced by modern urbanized people.
>
> There is just no way, that animals that have lived real close to people
> for good last 20,000 years of human history and now are not anymore, do
> not affect very strongly lives and health of humans.
>
> Also, you do not have to go so far for research, but just talk to older
> folks and they will tell you how good it is to send a child for at
> least couple of months to live on a farm and get away from stinking
> city.
I happen to believe this. But should we take the opinions of older
folks as *necessarily correct? I didn't when I was young, and I would
be disappointed in any young'n who always accepted my judgement without
question.
>
> Or see how kids living on the farm today when coming to study and stay
> in the city colledge by 2-3rd year obviously outperform their city
> collegues. Or see how children immigrants studying in US colleges
> posess so obvious and unique quality to work so hard?
> Would not you relate it to health also?
This wouldn't surprise me, but is it true? Cites?
>
> There is an old Roman expression. I am not sure if my translation to
> English is correct, but it is : "In a healthy body a healthy spirit"
Yes. But my observation in the US is that health is more strongly
correlated to level of education than to urban or country environment.
I wonder what percent of Yankees live in what we think of as the big
city? I live in the suburbs - what some sociologists call "edge
cities".
Kermit
eyelessgame
Mark wrote:
> If anybody have read a book "Guns Germs And Steel", you probably
> remember, that one of the main ideas is that development of agriculture
> and particularly, the breeding of cows, pigs, chicken, oat and other
> domesticated animals (altogether I beleive is just 14???)
The correct cite is that humans had domesticated (as opposed to tamed)
only 14 large (~100kg or more) animals prior to the 19th century. Five
have spread to farms/ranches worldwide (pig, cow, sheep, goat, and
horse); all but one are herbivores (all but the pig); all but one are
of Eurasian origin (all but the llama). One (the horse) was the
ultimate military weapon until gunpowder use spread.
(Note we've domesticated a lot more than 14 now, using modern tech. We
domesticate ostriches, buffalo, emus, and a bunch of others.)
eyelessgame
Mujin
tent...@hotmail.com says...
> If anybody have read a book "Guns Germs And Steel", you probably
> remember, that one of the main ideas is that development of agriculture
> and particularly, the breeding of cows, pigs, chicken, oat and other
> domesticated animals (altogether I beleive is just 14???) had made the
> biggest effect on development of human society and specially on why
> some cultures are technologically advanced ans some are not.
>
> It also explains defeat and almost extinction of American Indians
> mostly not because of the power of the gun but because of the lack of
> the immunity to deseases initially known to be in animals, but later
> transmitted to humans.
>
> So, being close to animals and specially livestock should have strong
> correlation with allergies experienced by modern urbanized people.
>
> There is just no way, that animals that have lived real close to people
> for good last 20,000 years of human history and now are not anymore, do
> not affect very strongly lives and health of humans.
>
> Also, you do not have to go so far for research, but just talk to older
> folks and they will tell you how good it is to send a child for at
> least couple of months to live on a farm and get away from stinking
> city.
>
> Or see how kids living on the farm today when coming to study and stay
> in the city colledge by 2-3rd year obviously outperform their city
> collegues.
Interesting assertion. Do you have evidence? My experience is quite
the opposite: a much larger proportion of rural students flunk out in
the first few years for a variety of reasons, both academic and
social. This leaves only the truly excellent few, who of course
place highly in tests etc.
> Or see how children immigrants studying in US colleges
> posess so obvious and unique quality to work so hard?
Again, this is a highly simplified and misleading representation of
the facts. In reality, "immigrant" students (I'm assuming you mean
students who are the children of immigrants and who had most of their
public schooling in their home country) perform no differently than
local students, with the same range from abyssmal to excellent.
"Immigrant" students are typically highly visible among their peers,
however, and so stand out when they are doing well.
> Would not you relate it to health also?
What do you mean?
bro...@noguchi.mimcom.net
Mark wrote:
<snip>
> So, being close to animals and specially livestock should have strong
> correlation with allergies experienced by modern urbanized people.
There is a pretty good medical literature on the inverse relationship
between allergies and infection with helminths. It seems that having
too few worms in your gut increases your risk of allergic pathologies,
like asthma. There is a suggestion that helminths induce both a T
helper 2 immune response (the same sort of mechanism that goes
overboard in allergies), and regulatory T cells that tamp down that
response.
Here's the abstract from a recent review article
Maizels RM. (2005) Infections and allergy - helminths, hygiene and host
immune regulation. Curr Opin Immunol. Dec;17(6):656-61.
There is increasing evidence that helminth infections can protect the
host against Th2-mediated allergic pathologies, even though helminths
themselves are strong Th2 inducers. In murine model systems,
alleviation of allergy is not achieved through immune deviation to Th1,
but is linked to expansion of regulatory T cell activity. Parasite
infection does not prevent allergen sensitisation, but restricts the
Th2 effector phase responsible for inflammation. Suppression of
allergic inflammation can be transferred by Treg phenotype cells from
an infected, allergen-naive animal to an uninfected, sensitized
recipient. Patent allergy in humans is also known to be modulated by
helminth infections, suggesting that a similar regulatory network may
be controlling immunopathologic disease in man.
You can find more where that came from by seaching PubMed for
Allergies+Helminths.
Earle Jones
"Mark" <tent...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> If anybody have read a book "Guns Germs And Steel", you probably
> remember, that one of the main ideas is that development of agriculture
> and particularly, the breeding of cows, pigs, chicken, oat and other
> domesticated animals (altogether I beleive is just 14???) had made the
> biggest effect on development of human society and specially on why
> some cultures are technologically advanced ans some are not.
>
> It also explains defeat and almost extinction of American Indians
> mostly not because of the power of the gun but because of the lack of
> the immunity to deseases initially known to be in animals, but later
> transmitted to humans.
*
Jared Diamond's book, 'Guns, Germs, and Steel' proposes how all
three factors account for the prominence of invading European
cultures over native American ones.
>
> So, being close to animals and specially livestock should have strong
> correlation with allergies experienced by modern urbanized people.
I don't think that thesis is in the book.
>
> There is just no way, that animals that have lived real close to people
> for good last 20,000 years of human history and now are not anymore, do
> not affect very strongly lives and health of humans.
>
> Also, you do not have to go so far for research, but just talk to older
> folks and they will tell you how good it is to send a child for at
> least couple of months to live on a farm and get away from stinking
> city.
>
> Or see how kids living on the farm today when coming to study and stay
> in the city colledge by 2-3rd year obviously outperform their city
> collegues.
Where did you get that piece of misinformation? What makes you
think that farm/rural kids come to the city and do better than
urban-raised kids? Do you have a reference?
> Or see how children immigrants studying in US colleges
> posess so obvious and unique quality to work so hard?
> Would not you relate it to health also?
*
Asian kids come to the US and do very well in competition with
native-born kids. But what does this have to do with health? There
are all sorts of cultural differences that can account for the
differences in achievement.
earle
*
Windy
> Mark wrote:
> > If anybody have read a book "Guns Germs And Steel", you probably
> > remember, that one of the main ideas is that development of agriculture
> > and particularly, the breeding of cows, pigs, chicken, oat and other
> > domesticated animals (altogether I beleive is just 14???) had made the
> > biggest effect on development of human society and specially on why
> > some cultures are technologically advanced ans some are not.
>
> I have only recently started this book; I admire his writing very much.
> I am curious though - whenever he lists domestic animals he does not
> mention dogs.
He saved the material for his upcoming book, Diamond Dogs.
> Only food animals. Dogs were our first non-human friends;
I've heard that *chimps* were our first non-human "friends" (wink wink,
nudge nudge)
-- w.