On 24 Dec 1997 23:23:31 GMT, af...@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Scott

He _evaded_ the question and made it look like he was answering the
question it the exact opposite manner of the truth (the truth being
that he _had_, in fact tried to smoke marijuana, but in England).

It's also about how Nudds is an _IDIOT_ who can't tell a question from
an attack.
--

(snip)

In article <01bd0e44$60d552c0$62baaec7@dads>,

There aren't 2600 scientists in that list (this is the soft and largely
content-free 'the environment is nice' statement put out by The Union of
Concerned Scientists).  And of the few real scientists only ONE is an
atmospheric physicist.  Compare that to the real atmospheric scientists
(all senior members of the American Meteorlogical Society) who signed the
'Statement of Atmospheric Scientists, and the several hundred scientists (a
significant number of whom are atmospheric scientists) who have signed the
Leipzig Declaration.  Statements that directly and dramaticly refute the
claims of Albert Gore and other unethical political activists on global
warming.

Read for yourself the direct and straightforward statements at www.his.com/
~sepp/statement.html and www.his.com/~sepp/LDrevis.html

Anyone with reasonable intelligence can understand that the actual
temperature records do not support the computer models.  Anyone with
reasonable intelligence can look for themselves and read the dramatic lack
of consensus of scientists in the IPCC report by reading it for themselves.
 And anyone with any integrity will think for themselves, instead of
letting people with the ethics of Bill Clinton or Albert Gore tell them
what to think and believe.

Compare the scientific data, citations, and pointers contained in:

www.vision.net.au/~daly  - this is the colorful web site of John Daly
                           in Tasmania.  Much good data and pointers to
                           other sites.

www.his.com/~sepp        - The Science and Environmental Policy Project
                           site, run by climatalogist Fred Singer.

www.nhes.com             - World Climate Report run by University of
                           Virginia climatologist Patrick Michaels,
                           who is also a noted skeptic and highly active
                           in exposing scientific deceit and fraud.

And then compare them to the lack of scientific data, citations, and
pointers contained in:

www.hrc.wmin.ac.uk/campaigns/ef/earthfirst.html - good old Earth First!

www.ucsusa.org - the (so called) Union of Concerned Scientists

  If you are not on drugs, then you must simply be stupid.

NASA/MARSHALL EARTH SCIENCE HEADLINE: EARTH'S TEMPERATURE

Is Earth's Temperature Up or Down or Both? - February 6, 1997
------------------------------------------

Thermometers on the ground, measuring the near-surface air temperature,
demonstrate a marked increase in globally-averaged temperature over the
past two decades.

...

---

"We can state with 99% confidence," James Hansen, of NASA's Goddard
Institute told the U.S. Senate during testimony that fierce summer,
"that current temperature represent a real global warming trend, rather
than a chance fluctuation.  We will surely have many more years like
this--more droughts and many more days above 100 degrees [F]--in the
Nineties."

---

  Where "qualified science" is defined as science that produces results
that support your petty personal faith.

  Interesting, in your view I have a skull full of mush because the
chart I have provided is based on the well respected, Hansen temperature
index.

  Like most conservatives it is apparent that when confronted with
reality that does not conform to your myopic and perverse world view,
you resort to insults and proclamations of hate.

  Why thank you for the insult.  Do you really think your demonstration
of hate hides the fact that your objections are not based on reality?

  The only question that remains, is whether you are a fool, a dupe of a
stooge.

  Denialists like James Leslie have no respect for science.  They
demonstrate hate for what they can not understand.

  The data for the plot comes from the Hansen global temperature index.

  Sounds like Ronnie Ray Gun.  Create a debt crisis and then spend the
rest of your time trying to deal with the catastrophic results.

---
"In the current fiscal crisis of states and municipalities, default is
preferable to raising taxes or perpetual refinancing of growing public
debt." - Libertarian tax Platform

Still waiting for you to get your story straight.  I have never said I hate you!  I've merely stated
that you "are dumb as dirt".  I find no hate there, simply reality.  You have been spouting phantom
data and posting mythical charts which came from your own twisted mind.  When you finally post
something which is realevant, please let us know.

Those of you who are members-in-good-standing in the 'Al Gore Cult' are the twisted souls who wish
to murder children in the name of Global Warming.  As evidenced by Al Gore proclomation that world
population MUST be controlled.  And now our federal government supplies mobile Abortion Clinics to
China, Mexico, India, and many other third-world countries in the name of Planned Parenthood and
Global Warming.

I have a degree from the Colorado School of Mines in Geology.  I have a great respect for
responsible science.  

In article <34A9A12A.2...@gci.cncoffice.com>,
   David Gossman <gciad...@gci.cncoffice.com> wrote:

(give the guy a break on this.  He had to type all those hyphens and
everything. )  Scott: I like your graph.  It's a nice graph.

On Sun, 21 Dec 1997 16:14:15 GMT, jdles...@mindspring.com (James D.

  The data is publicly available.  Are you not smart enough to find it
for yourself?

Year  Global Temperature index. (1867 = 14.42) (1987 = 15.32)

1867  ....*
1887  .......*
1897  ..........................*
1907  ...........*
1917  ............*
1927  ...............................*
1937  .......................................*
1947  .......................................*
1957  ......................................*
1967  ................................*
1977  .........................................*
1987  .................................................*
1997  .........................................................*
1997  - Hottest year on record?

Error approx. 0.07 C' in any year

  No one said it was a "nuclear" explosion.  But what is a nuclear
explostion anyhow?  Lets ponder the definition.  Is it an explosion
driven by energy of nuclear origin?  If so, then it was a nuclear
explosion.

  The nuclear industry long claimed that reactors could not explode.
The public now knows this is not true.

  World Climate Report by Denialist Michaels?  Isn't it interesting that
the same half dozen names continue to crop up again and again and again.

"It is worthwhile recognizing that there is a class of people who have
vested interests in the current situation. Their strategy is often to
denigrate the issue or deny that there is an issue at all. Like the
tobacco companies who have long denied the addictive effects of nicotine
and adverse effects of smoking on lung cancer, oil-producing countries
and fossil fuel companies spend huge amounts of money to publish often
misleading or invalid material to deny that global warming is a problem.
It is noteworthy that the only two countries who obstructed progress and
continually objected to the IPCC report in the intergovernmental plenary
in Madrid, Spain, in November 1995, were Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. Oil
companies often publish selective and biased views in their newsletters
to shareholders. Coal companies in the U.S. wage negative advertising
campaigns and fund the work of skeptics." - KEVIN E. TRENBERTH -
National Center for Atmospheric Research

CONTACT:  Patricia Viets, NOAA          FOR RELEASE RELEASE
          Lynn Simarski                 11/13/97
  National Science Foundation

       400 YEARS OF ARCTIC DATA PROVIDE INSIGHT INTO CLIMATE CHANGE

   Human-generated increases in greenhouse gas concentrations have
   combined with natural forces to cause unprecedented warming in the
   cold Arctic in the 20th century, a phenomenon that could lead to
   significant changes in the Earth's natural environment, according to a
   study by U.S. and Canadian scientists, the Commerce Department said.

   Between 1840 and the mid-20th century, the Arctic warmed to the
   highest levels of the past four centuries, causing dramatic retreats
   of glaciers, thawing of permafrost and sea-ice, and changes in
   terrestrial and lake ecosystems, according to the study published in
   the Nov. 14 issue of Science magazine, the department's National
   Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said.

   Although significant warming in the Arctic, particularly after 1920,
   may be related to increases in greenhouse gases, the initiation of the
   warming in the mid-19th century suggests that natural variations, such
   as increased solar irradiance, decreased volcanic activity, and
   factors internal to the climate system, also played roles in driving
   the post-1840's warming trend.

   Much of the Arctic research was funded by the National Science
   Foundation through its Arctic System Science (ARCSS) Paleoclimates of
   Arctic Lakes and Estuaries (PALE) Initiative with support in Canada
   from the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council and the
   Polar Continental Shelf Project.

   "The climate of the Arctic has been changing rapidly, with important
   consequences for many parts of the Arctic system," said Jonathan T.
   Overpeck, head of NOAA's Paleoclimatology Program and coordinator of
   the study. "The most notable pattern of change is the near ubiquitous
   transition from unusually cold conditions of the 19th century, to peak
   warm conditions of the 20th century."

   To study climatic changes that occurred before instruments were widely
   available, the scientists used natural archives of past climate
   variations such as lake and marine sediments, ice cores from glaciers,
   and tree rings. Generation of these paleoclimatic data involved
   extensive field sampling of the lakes, glaciers and trees, followed by
   careful laboratory analyses. The use of multiple proxy sources allowed
   the scientists to get broad geographic coverage and also to
   cross-check among the different proxies. The results of this work
   summarize multi-century climate records at 29 locations around the
   Arctic, and furnish a new 400-year Arctic-wide average temperature
   record.

   "Before these studies began, we had only a few decades of instrumental
   measurements from the Arctic, so our view of climate variations in
   this region was very limited," said Ray Bradley, head of the
   Department of Geosciences at the University of Massachusetts, and a
   major contributor to the research. "By extending the climate record
   through the use of these natural recorders of climate, we were able to
   place the recent changes in a longer term perspective."

   The five-year effort provides scientists with significant insight into
   how climatic change has affected the Arctic in the past, and how the
   Arctic is likely to be impacted by climatic change in the future, as
   greenhouse gases continue to accumulate in the atmosphere.

  On one hand we have conservative luddites insisting that man is not
over-reliant on fossil fuels, and on the other we have denialists like
Salonen insisting that reducing fossil fuel consumption to what it was
17 years ago is "drastic action."  Possibly catastrophic.

  Whats wrong with the picture these chicken little, luddites, are
painting?  I don't remember shivering in the cold or living in a cave 17
years ago, there has been no substantial change in the North American
population.

  Oh, no!  Janne Salonen is going to be obliged to install CF lighting.
Drive a more efficient car.  Walk to the corner store.  Tellicommute on
occasion.  Recycle his tin cans.  Add more insulation to his home.

  Horrors of Horrors.  How will he possibly survive!

  You know.  I don't see any "alarmists" in the environmentalist camp.
I do however see many alarmists in the denialist camp who manufacture
gloom and doom fantasies in order to justify perpetual inaction.

  Sooner or later man will be weaned from his dependence on fossil
fuels.  If the gloom and doom stories the anti-progress anti-environment
croud are pushing are true, then ultimately mankind is doomed to
failure.

  As an environmentalist, I reject this doomster philosophy.  I know
that I am smart enough to avoid it, and I know that the only reason the
denialist vision of inevitiable human decline will be realized is if
nothing is done to prevent it.  The very nothing that the doomster camp
is promoting.

DISCOVER MAGAZINE - January 1997

April in Winnipeg
-----------------
For the past 39 years Charles Keeling and his colleagues at the Scripps
Institution of Oceanography in La Jolla, California, have been
scrupulously keeping track of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. No one
had done that before, so when we want to know CO2 levels from before
1958, we have to resort to imperfect records such as ice cores from
Antarctica. They suggest that in 1750, before the industrial age, CO2
made up 280 parts per million of the air. When Keeling began his work,
fossil fuel emissions and other sources had boosted the level to 315,
and today it is 360. Global temperatures have also been rising, and most
climatologists think the culprit is a greenhouse effect created in large
part by the carbon dioxide.

This past summer, however, Keeling's careful record revealed a
surprising new wrinkle on global warming: it appears to be changing the
course of the growing seasons of plants, making spring come a little
earlier than it used to.

...

Surface versus Satellite Temperature Records - Hotline - June 1996
--------------------------------------------
by Dr. Daniel A. Lashof, Senior Scientist, NRDC

...

The ground-based global temperature record comes from thousands of
weather stations and ship records and extends for more than 100 years.
It shows a clear statistically significant warming trend, as discussed
above. The satellite-derived temperature record begins less than 20
years ago, in 1979, a year that was substantially warmer than the
1950-1980 mean. It measures an average temperature from the surface to
about 20,000 feet high in the atmosphere. Given the short period of
the satellite record, it is strongly influenced by events such as the
Mt. Pinatubo volcanic eruption in 1991 and cyclic changes in ocean
temperatures (the El Niqo-Southern Oscillation). When corrected for
these effects, the satellite data do reflect a warming trend of 0.09
degrees Celsius per decade, according to John Christy, one of the lead
scientists who developed the satellite record.

: >Such statements are the way of members of the denialist faith.

  Sources for non-existant evidence?  You still on drugs Leslie?

  Really?  Where?  You've made several references to Forbes magazine.
Do you really think that a financial magazine is a reputable source for
climate information?

  The fact that you would use Forbes, just tells us that you are not
even smart enough to think with your dick.  You let other peoples
wallets do your thinking for you.

  Ya, conservation and promotion of the economic system that allows them
to suck wealth from the middle class and the poor.

  I guess this is why the stratification of wealth in the U.S. grew
greatly during the 1980's.

  You just can't get over the fact that Liberals are responsible for
integrating blacks into white American society can you?

  You are ignorant of recent history.  All conservative's are.

  Even without scale it shows warming.  Who are you trying to scam Mr.
Leslie?  On a bigger note, why are you conservatives constantly lying to
the public?

"Just like what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, so liberal America is now
doing to the evangelical Christians. It's no different. It is the same
thing. It is happening all over again. It is the Democratic Congress,
the liberal-based media and the homosexuals who want to destroy the
Christians. Wholesale abuse and discrimination and the worst bigotry
directed toward any group in America today. More terrible than anything
suffered by any minority in history." - Pat Robertson - 1993 interview
Molly Ivins.

On 1 Jan 1998 10:53:04 -0500, af...@james.hwcn.org (Scott Nudds)
wrote:

_You_ will explode if someone straps some dynamite to your back. Does
that mean that the public has been misinformed about your
explosiveness?
--

On 1 Jan 1998 19:44:48 GMT, huge@axalotl_nospam.demon_nospam.co.uk