The Creator Failed? Or Evolution Did the Best it Could?
Budikka666
26 by Carl Zimmer which discusses the "wiring" of the human body and
how fast signals travel along nerves and within the brain.
Faster is usually better, but not always. For example, in order for
the signals from the eye to reach the brain in sync, some of them are
"wired" to travel slightly slower since they have a slightly shorter
path to navigate. This makes sense, but when it comes to pain
signals, these also travel slowly.
Why would a designer delay the time it takes for us to get a signal
telling us our body is being hurt? This makes no sense. Worse, once
we're aware of the pain, then why does the signal continue at such
intensity? The idea of pain is to tell us there's something wrong -
something which needs urgent attention, but to continue a signal, at
what can be debilitating levels, when the site of the pain has been
removed from the source of the pain is quite simply bad design.
It's the kind of bad design which evolution comes up with by tinkering
with existing materials and the occasional useful mutation. It's most
certainly not the design we'd expect from an omnipotent, omniscient
divinity which had infinite resources and all eternity in which to
work.
But the bad "design" doesn't only fail there. When humans wanted to
design an efficient system which ran very fast and which packed a huge
number of components into a small area, they came up with the
microchip. We know these things are designed because they're
efficient, very fast, and optimized. We know they're designed because
they're improving all the time. In only a few decades, human
designers have come up with improvement after improvement,
miniaturization after miniaturization, and we know for a fact that
these chips will remain small and become ever faster because they are
intelligently designed.
But what of the human brain? First there is only one, and although
it's divided into two halves, it can still be seriously debilitated by
damage. Not only can memories be lost, but also entire personalities
can be changed by such injuries. This alone pretty much disproves the
claim that humans have a soul.
Secondly, as Zimmer's article makes clear, if our brain were "wired'
to make it run faster, which would certainly be an advantage, the
"design" means our heads would have to be the size of a beachball.
So let's look at this. On the one hand we have something which we
*know* is designed - the microchip - which is a model of efficiency
and speed, and on the other hand we have something which creationists
LIE is designed - the human brain, which is a model of a flawed hodge-
podge of lame wiring.
Seriously, can anyone who isn't fundamentally dishonest and a
pathological liar honestly claim the brain was designed by a god? If
so, what evidence can they present which supports their claim?
Budikka
ilbe...@gmail.com
As has been told you by myself and others many times in the past...the
Creation as it now sits is not the creation God made initially. Sin
entered the world and protection, order, etc..was thrown into chaos.
You can pick apart the human anatomy all you want, but, when you look
at the 50 some major anatomical systems of the human body all working
and balancing out one another then conclude it was by accident ....
that requires so much faith that no one truly has. Design and
Engineering of our human body plus so many other obvious things ,
should be viewed as such...and not as having an appearance of design.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a
duck....ITS A DUCK by golly ! Its not an accident and its not
arrived at by mutational accidents . The design is in the
details...and the Designer is seen in the Design --- dont make
excuses so the Creator can be rejected. Instead, move closer to the
Creator, for, that is the correct response.
ilbe...@gmail.com
A Brain to See God's Handiwork
Acts 17:29
Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think
that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art
and man's device.
One of the most difficult problems for those who believe that we are
the product of millions of years of evolution is the human brain. The
human brain has ten billion times 25,000 neural connections. If you
work it out, this means that a miracle would have to take place if we
evolved from an ape like creature on the time scale that evolutionists
propose: every generation would have had to have many thousands more
neural connections than the last!
Even more astonishing is the fact that we are not born with a brain
that is a blank slate. Several studies have shown that even infants as
young as three months expect things to behave in certain ways. In one
study, three month old infants showed surprise when researchers made
an object they were looking at disappear. Another study showed that
young infants expect inanimate things not to move by themselves. But
they expect living things to move all by themselves. Such built in
"programming" in the brain enables us to progress more quickly as we
learn about the world around us.
The problem of the complexity of the human brain, and the fact that it
seems to come preprogrammed, ultimately caused Alfred Russel Wallace,
an influential evolutionist, to switch to belief in a Creator. The
more we learn about what God has created, the more likely we are to
conclude that we are indeed the work of a wise Creator. He has even
given us a brain capable of seeing that.
Prayer: I thank You, dear Father, for the intelligence You have given
me. Amen.
References: Natural History, 9/97, "The Nature of Learning," pp.42 45.
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thomas p.
If your story is correct, sin entered the world through god's creation.
Your attempted
justification has you spinning in circles.
> You can pick apart the human anatomy all you want, but, when you look
> at the 50 some major anatomical systems of the human body all working
> and balancing out one another then conclude it was by accident ....
You just said that it was by sin. which is it?
> that requires so much faith that no one truly has. Design and
> Engineering of our human body plus so many other obvious things ,
> should be viewed as such...and not as having an appearance of design.
> If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a
> duck....ITS A DUCK by golly ! Its not an accident and its not
> arrived at by mutational accidents . The design is in the
> details...and the Designer is seen in the Design --- dont make
> excuses so the Creator can be rejected. Instead, move closer to the
> Creator, for, that is the correct response.
So you say, but your explanations make no sense, your blaming of sin above
being an example.
Furthermore you are assuming that our motivation is to find an excuse,
instead of simply a
conclusion reached based on objective reason.
duke
wrote:
>In the December 2009 _Discover_ magazine, there's an article on page
>26 by Carl Zimmer which discusses the "wiring" of the human body and
>how fast signals travel along nerves and within the brain.
>
>Faster is usually better, but not always. For example, in order for
>the signals from the eye to reach the brain in sync, some of them are
>"wired" to travel slightly slower since they have a slightly shorter
>path to navigate. This makes sense, but when it comes to pain
>signals, these also travel slowly.
>Why would a designer delay the time it takes for us to get a signal
>telling us our body is being hurt? This makes no sense.
Well, not to the challenged like you. But God has his ways, and they's better
than your ways.
> Worse, once
>we're aware of the pain, then why does the signal continue at such
>intensity? The idea of pain is to tell us there's something wrong -
>something which needs urgent attention, but to continue a signal, at
>what can be debilitating levels, when the site of the pain has been
>removed from the source of the pain is quite simply bad design.
Well, wrong dummy. The initial pain says something's wrong. The continuing
pain says something wrong is continuing.
Speaking of a challenged mind.
>Seriously, can anyone who isn't fundamentally dishonest and a
>pathological liar honestly claim the brain was designed by a god? If
>so, what evidence can they present which supports their claim?
God created, then turned to let evolution take over. Most of your atheist
wannabe buddies understand that, but nooooooooo, not you.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Ken
Seriously, I've been on Usenet for 13 years, and you have to be the
dumbest, most ignorant person I've run across in that time"
Budikka666
The challenge I offered you in this thread:
http://tinyurl.com/nubnxr
on May 11th 2009, only to see you RUN AWAY.
Unmet challenge #2
Provide *positive*, *scientific* evidence *for* a creation. Not Bible
quotes. Not quotes from creationists or atheists or evolutionists.
Not divine revelation. Not juvenile unsupported ignorant assertions.
Not chants of 'no it isn't!'. Not counter challenges when you haven't
even met ours, but *positive*, *scientific* evidence *for* a creation.
Unmet challenge #3
Provide evidence that shows how DNA is the work of a creator. Show us
this evidence and explain how it demonstrates a creator.
Unmet challenge #4
Support claims that bacteria have never arisen from anything other
than bacteria/life has never arisen from anything but life.
Unmet challenge #5
Provide evidence in support of the creationist claim that information
cannot be added to a genome.
Unmet challenge #6
Define scientifically what the "genetic boundaries" are: specifically
what the mechanism is which (according to creationist claims) prevents
one species from evolving into another species over time.
Unmet Challenge #7
Provide your scientific evidence (as opposed to your LYING,
unsupported bullshit, which has been refuted repeatedly) to support
your creationist claim that life cannot arise from organic chemistry,
when scientists have repeatedly demonstrated that the truth is quite
to the contrary
Unmet Challenge #8
Prove that there's a god out there waiting to judge me when I die.
Otherwise you and your creationist fundie ilk are nothing but pathetic
LIARS and FRAUDS.
Unmet Challenge #9
Prove that we have a soul. Demonstrate scientifically where it is and
what its purpose is.
Unmet Challenge #10
Prove that this fictional Jesus isn't fictional and that he literally
died and that he came back to life and went to Heaven.
Here's a list of the strongest advocates of creation on Usenet WHO
HAVE FLED one or more of these challenges:
Chicken Adman
Chicken Andrew
Chicken Brother Ted
Chicken Codebreaker
Chicken Curtjester1
Chicken Duke
Chicken Gabriel
Chicken I'll Be Bauck
Chicken Pastor Dave
Let's face it, NOT A SINGLE creationist on Usenet has been able to
find the guts to face these challenges. This fictional god of theirs
has deserted every one of these liars and frauds That's what a sad,
pathetic and vacuous bunch of lousy, low-life scum they are.
Case closed. End of story.
Budikka
Matt Silberstein
<budi...@netscape.net> in
<02b5f370-e1ee-434d...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
wrote:
[snip]
>So let's look at this. On the one hand we have something which we
>*know* is designed - the microchip - which is a model of efficiency
>and speed, and on the other hand we have something which creationists
>LIE is designed - the human brain, which is a model of a flawed hodge-
>podge of lame wiring.
Sorry, but this is wrong. Microchips are not particularly models of
efficiency and by many legitimate standards it is far worse than the
brain. That "flawed hodge-podge" can take far more damage than a
computer, any computer, and continue to function pretty damn well. The
brain self repairs, actually fixes itself, something no computer does
in the slightest. This notion that humans can somehow do so much
better than evolution is nonsense. Biota are astoundingly well
designed things. The problem is not that they are poorly done, the
problem is that you don't understand the design process, human or
otherwise. All design is work in ignorance, it is making do with
available resources. All design is modification of existing systems
working with the various manufacturing constraints and such. Human
design, just like evolution, has to work stepwise. We don't find
sudden appearance of full formed wings on birds and we don't find
sudden development of computer technology absent a large list of
supporting technologies available.
>Seriously, can anyone who isn't fundamentally dishonest and a
>pathological liar honestly claim the brain was designed by a god? If
>so, what evidence can they present which supports their claim?
Designed by a (omniscient omnipotent) god? Nope. Designed by
evolution? Sure. Evolution works like human design because human
design is an evolutionary process. Do you think we don't live with and
work with things as "stupidly" designed as the cross retina or some
such?
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
AgitProp
> Unmet challenge #1
> The challenge I offered you in this thread:http://tinyurl.com/nubnxr
> on May 11th 2009, only to see you RUN AWAY.
>
> Unmet challenge #2
> Provide *positive*, *scientific* evidence *for* a creation. Not Bible
> quotes. Not quotes from creationists or atheists or evolutionists.
> Not divine revelation. Not juvenile unsupported ignorant assertions.
> Not chants of 'no it isn't!'. Not counter challenges when you haven't
> even met ours, but *positive*, *scientific* evidence *for* a creation.
The fossil record clearly demonstrates that evolution did not
happen here on earth.
> Unmet challenge #3
> Provide evidence that shows how DNA is the work of a creator. Show us
> this evidence and explain how it demonstrates a creator.
I am more curious how the evolutionists will demonstrate
how one species turned another overnight, - if evolution
isn't a dogmatic religion then I don't know what is!
> Unmet challenge #4
> Support claims that bacteria have never arisen from anything other
> than bacteria/life has never arisen from anything but life.
Don't worry about bacteria, evolution has much bigger
problems than this. Show us how a dog-like animal became
a horse overnight!
> Unmet challenge #5
> Provide evidence in support of the creationist claim that information
> cannot be added to a genome.
Hey, don't paint all with the same brush! Not all creationist
believe in god or claim such nonsense.
> Unmet challenge #6
> Define scientifically what the "genetic boundaries" are: specifically
> what the mechanism is which (according to creationist claims) prevents
> one species from evolving into another species over time.
Look at the huge blanks in the fossil record and the abundance of
specimens that never evolved.
> Unmet Challenge #7
> Provide your scientific evidence (as opposed to your LYING,
> unsupported bullshit, which has been refuted repeatedly) to support
> your creationist claim that life cannot arise from organic chemistry,
> when scientists have repeatedly demonstrated that the truth is quite
> to the contrary
Actually they haven't yet, but hopefully will one day.
> Unmet Challenge #8
> Prove that there's a god out there waiting to judge me when I die.
> Otherwise you and your creationist fundie ilk are nothing but pathetic
> LIARS and FRAUDS.
No such omnipotent human creature needed. Have you ever considered
that there could be different life-forms, more advanced and older than
ourselves.
> Unmet Challenge #9
> Prove that we have a soul. Demonstrate scientifically where it is and
> what its purpose is.
We don't have - we are! Consider quantum mechanics and
the invisible to us aether world out of which particles appear and
disappear. You have a lot more machinery to you than
you can see or are aware of. When the body dies it is a
component that has been discarded. The remainder ethereal
part is often referred to as a soul. If you didn't have a soul you
wouldn't be insulting people at the end of the message as this
is counter-evolutionary waste of energy, - from a mechanical
perspective completely irrational - machines don't have passion.
> Unmet Challenge #10
> Prove that this fictional Jesus isn't fictional and that he literally
> died and that he came back to life and went to Heaven.
That's irrelevant to evolution and spiritualism.
Free Lunch
<baron.ro...@live.co.uk> wrote in alt.talk.creationism:
>On Nov 13, 10:49�am, Budikka666 <budik...@netscape.net> wrote:
>> Unmet challenge #1
>> The challenge I offered you in this thread:http://tinyurl.com/nubnxr
>> on May 11th 2009, only to see you RUN AWAY.
>>
>> Unmet challenge #2
>> Provide *positive*, *scientific* evidence *for* a creation. �Not Bible
>> quotes. �Not quotes from creationists or atheists or evolutionists.
>> Not divine revelation. �Not juvenile unsupported ignorant assertions.
>> Not chants of 'no it isn't!'. �Not counter challenges when you haven't
>> even met ours, but *positive*, *scientific* evidence *for* a creation.
>
>The fossil record clearly demonstrates that evolution did not
>happen here on earth.
You really are too stupid or too dishonest or both to bother with.
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
>On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 08:05:17 -0800 (PST), AgitProp
><baron.ro...@live.co.uk> wrote in alt.talk.creationism:
>
>>On Nov 13, 10:49�am, Budikka666 <budik...@netscape.net> wrote:
>>> Unmet challenge #1
>>> The challenge I offered you in this thread:http://tinyurl.com/nubnxr
>>> on May 11th 2009, only to see you RUN AWAY.
>>>
>>> Unmet challenge #2
>>> Provide *positive*, *scientific* evidence *for* a creation. �Not Bible
>>> quotes. �Not quotes from creationists or atheists or evolutionists.
>>> Not divine revelation. �Not juvenile unsupported ignorant assertions.
>>> Not chants of 'no it isn't!'. �Not counter challenges when you haven't
>>> even met ours, but *positive*, *scientific* evidence *for* a creation.
>>
>>The fossil record clearly demonstrates that evolution did not
>>happen here on earth.
>
>You really are too stupid or too dishonest or both to bother with.
Where do these imbeciles get this from? It is where evolution was
first observed - one the labels given to the change and divergence
seen in fossil collections.
>>> Unmet challenge #3
>>> Provide evidence that shows how DNA is the work of a creator. �Show us
>>> this evidence and explain how it demonstrates a creator.
>>
>>I am more curious how the evolutionists will demonstrate
There is no such thing as an "evolutionist" outside the deliberate
lies of creationists.
>>how one species turned another overnight, - if evolution
>>isn't a dogmatic religion then I don't know what is!
A liar as well as an idiot.
Evolution is a scientific fact, whose mechanisms are well understood
and have led to all sorts of spinoff sciences and technologies.
Educated, non-fundamentalist Christians who understand this outnumber
atheists by almost ten to one.
>>> Unmet challenge #4
>>> Support claims that bacteria have never arisen from anything other
>>> than bacteria/life has never arisen from anything but life.
>>
>>Don't worry about bacteria, evolution has much bigger
>>problems than this. Show us how a dog-like animal became
>>a horse overnight!
What a fucking moron.
>>> Unmet challenge #5
>>> Provide evidence in support of the creationist claim that information
>>> cannot be added to a genome.
>>
>>Hey, don't paint all with the same brush! Not all creationist
>>believe in god or claim such nonsense.
A liar as well as an idiot.
>>> Unmet challenge #6
>>> Define scientifically what the "genetic boundaries" are: specifically
>>> what the mechanism is which (according to creationist claims) prevents
>>> one species from evolving into another species over time.
>>
>>Look at the huge blanks in the fossil record and the abundance of
>>specimens that never evolved.
Liar.
>>> Unmet Challenge #7
>>> Provide your scientific evidence (as opposed to your LYING,
>>> unsupported bullshit, which has been refuted repeatedly) to support
>>> your creationist claim that life cannot arise from organic chemistry,
>>> when scientists have repeatedly demonstrated that the truth is quite
>>> to the contrary
>>
>>Actually they haven't yet, but hopefully will one day.
Liar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9eg
>>> Unmet Challenge #8
>>> Prove that there's a god out there waiting to judge me when I die.
>>> Otherwise you and your creationist fundie ilk are nothing but pathetic
>>> LIARS and FRAUDS.
>>
>>No such omnipotent human creature needed. Have you ever considered
>>that there could be different life-forms, more advanced and older than
>>ourselves.
Have you considred that you are a stupid prat who merely pushes the
origin of life back to where these "different life forms" for which
there is no evidence and no reason even to propose, come from?
>>> Unmet Challenge #9
>>> Prove that we have a soul. �Demonstrate scientifically where it is and
>>> what its purpose is.
>>
>>We don't have - we are! Consider quantum mechanics and
>>the invisible to us aether world out of which particles appear and
>>disappear.
What "invisible to us aether world", moron?
>> You have a lot more machinery to you than
>>you can see or are aware of. When the body dies it is a
>>component that has been discarded. The remainder ethereal
>>part is often referred to as a soul.
What "remainder ethereal part", imbecile?
>> If you didn't have a soul you
>>wouldn't be insulting people at the end of the message as this
>>is counter-evolutionary waste of energy, - from a mechanical
>>perspective completely irrational - machines don't have passion.
How is treating an aggressively stupid, serially lying, pig-ignorant
retart as what he is, insulting?
>>> Unmet Challenge #10
>>> Prove that this fictional Jesus isn't fictional and that he literally
>>> died and that he came back to life and went to Heaven.
>>
>>That's irrelevant to evolution and spiritualism.
So why do so many Christians bring it up where it is irrelevant?
JTEM
AgitProp <baron.rothsch...@live.co.uk> wrote:
> The fossil record clearly demonstrates that evolution did not
> happen here on earth.
You are of course referring to all those fossilized space ships,
right?
Dan Listermann
"AgitProp" <baron.ro...@live.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ee402fd4-d46f-43f6...@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 13, 10:49 am, Budikka666 <budik...@netscape.net> wrote:
"The fossil record clearly demonstrates that evolution did not
happen here on earth."
Really? Do you think it demonstrates anything?
Ken
> Where do these imbeciles get this from?
The same place dimwit dave/Ilbebaucked/ibenduped gets all his
"info"..........
other equally delusional brainwashed uneducated bible-thumping
imbecilic morons