Welcome to the Tuscaloosa Teaching American History Discussion Board

[ZuZu]

Welcome to the Tuscaloosa City and County Schools Teaching American
History Discussion Board! Laurie Fowler, Director of Staff Development
(and Technology Maestro) from the Tuscaloosa County Schools set up this
discussion board for us. We'll use it in real time Thursday, but can
then change it to a digest format where you'll get a compilation of the
messages once a day. Someone can post a question or comment one day,
you can respond, and then the next day everyone gets the responses.
I've been a member of a national TAHP digest and have found it very
helpful. We'll see it how it goes. I look forward to seeing everyone
who can make it to Thursday's workshop at Hillcrest and/or our
recruiting meetings over the next two weeks. ZuZu

[melissa]

Hey ZuZu! Just letting you know that I'm on here. See you this
afternoon at the Northside meeting. Melissa

[Chris Crowe]

Jennifer, ZuZu, and Melissa, I got the email from the Google Group TAHP
Teachers. I'm assuming, I'm in the group.

I'm looking forward to tomorrow morning's discussion.

Chris

Chris Crowe
4121 JFSB
Department of English
Brigham Young University
Provo UT 84602-6280
chris...@byu.edu
(801) 422-3429
Fax: (801) 422-0221

[lmat...@bhs.tusc.k12.al.us]

OK, I hope this is the correct method. If it is you will all see this
and I will see you all in the morning.

[Laurie]

Chris,
You are on the board and everything is working here. The teachers will
be coming online in about 20 minutes or so. See you then.

Laurie Fowler
Group Owner

[Chris Crowe]

Laurie, I'm here, ready for the conversation. Should I work from my email
or from the Google page?

Thanks,

Chris

[Laurie]

I think the Google Page makes it easier to see the whole conversation.
They are taking a break and will be right here.

Laurie

[jd...@bamaed.ua.edu]

Hi, Chris! Good to see you here this morning and everything working
well! I am so excited; you should hear the GREAT conversation they have
been having the past hour - all sparked by your writing! :-)

[chris...@byu.edu]

I'm glad to be in this conversation. You all will have to forgive my
poor typing---when I have to write fast, I make lots of typos.

Thanks for reading my books everyone. I'm happy to have some
English-social studies connections happening.

Chris

[jd...@bamaed.ua.edu]

This is a question from Ryan.

What is the name of the 1960's movie that depicts the Emmit Till case?

[chris...@byu.edu]

I don't know that movie, Ryan. I know that the case is in a 1980s
documentary, "Eyes on the Prize" and a later docu by the History
Channell called "The Fifties," but I didn't know of a movie based on
the case. I'll have to track that down.

[ZuZu]

Hi Chris,
I have two questions for you from one of our teachers who wasn't
able to come. "In your timeline on p. 123, why didn't you include
Truman's two Executive Orders in 1947 which integratedthe U.S. military
and which banned discrimination in federal government hiring? (Just an
oversight, or were they really not all that important in your opinion?
Those two decisions seem to me to be incredible acts of moral courage
by Truman ---on I reason I consider Truman to be the greatest president
of the 20th century). Also, I'd love to know whether [you] consider
the G.I. Bill, which enabled thousands of black men to get college
educations, to be a major catalyst for the Civili Rights Movement."
This is from David Truhett who teaches in the high school.

[chris...@byu.edu]

I just consulted the book, THE LYNCHING OF EMMETT TILL: A DOCUMENTARY
NARRATIVE by Christopher Metress, a professor of English at Samford
University, and I don't see any mention of a movie. There was a 1956
Twilight Zone tele-play, "Noon on Doomsday" by Rod Serling that was
based on the case.

[becky.br...@tcss.net]

Hi Chris,
I found the books enlightening and depressing because of man's
inhumanity to man.
In our conversations we were wondering who the two black men were that
assisted in the beating of Emmett? Were they forced (I would assume)?
What happened to them after the trial? Were they killed? Do we know
if they are still alive today?
Thanks,
Becky

[chris...@byu.edu]

David, that's a good question. In an early draft of the book, I had a
much more extensive timeline, I think it began with the Fugitive Slave
Act, but as the book developed, I wanted to stay closer to events that
had, in some way, a closer connection to the case. Truman's
integration of the armed forces was a landmark event, and of course it
has a place in civil rights history. The GI Bill was also very
important---and I wonder if Emmett's mother used it (did it provide
widow/survivor benefits?) when she went back to school after Emmett's
death.

[Lisa Matherson]

Good morning Chris. Thanks for taking the time to do this with us. I
have two questions for you. 1) Did Emmett understand the time and
social attitudes of the South or did he dismiss them due to his age?
2) Were the characters of Hiram and R.C. based on anyone?

[jd...@bamaed.ua.edu]

Lisa: I think you have an interesting question, and I wonder if he
COULD understand understand the social attitudes due to living in
Chicago. While there was segregation and similar issues occuring there,
I do not think that socially it was as extreme in the way actions were
carried out as a reaction to issues. Can you really undertand such
things just by hearing accounts of them? I imagine that he could only
situation his understanding within the framework of his own
experiences.

[chris...@byu.edu]

Becky, writing the books was depressing. For several years I was
immersed in memories of how the various Civil Rights acts had failed.

I don't know who else was involved in the torture and death of Emmett,
but I know that more than Bryant and Milam were involved. A young
filmmaker, Keith Beauchamp, has a documentary, as yet unreleased, that
he's shown in various cities. I've not seen it, but apparently he
interviewed several African American men who were at the scene.
Beauchamp's film and lobbying combined with the PBS documentary by
Stanley Nelson are what led to the case being re-opened. Anyway, based
on what I've heard, I think that some of those men were forced to
participate and are still alive today. I think they stayed silent
after the trial because the reaction against them would have been
furious and terrible.

Chris

[chris...@byu.edu]

Lisa, I think that Emmett's fatal flaw was his naivete about Jim Crow
in Mississippi. Of course, Chicago was segregated in 1955, but it
wasn't enforced with the same passion as it was in the Delta. His
mother told me that when she tried to warn Emmett about what to expect
and how to act in Mississippi, that he laughed at her.

Hiram was based, more or less, on me. R.C. is a composite of all the
bullies and creeps I've known in my life.

Chris

[chris...@byu.edu]

This is a good point, and it remains true today. Many people think
that today, after all of Martin Luther King, Jr.'s work that everything
has been "fixed," that all people have equality in America. This
perception resides in folks who haven't themselves felt the sting of
racism and discrimination.

Chris

[jd...@bamaed.ua.edu]

I am still on my thought about contextualizing our understandings
within the framework of our own experiences, and in continuing to think
about that beyond my first post, I think it has implications to our
classroom instruction. It certainly fits with Louise Rosenblatt's
reader response theory where we first make personal connections and
responses to texts before moving onto making experiential and
intellectual connections. I think then, that in terms of classroom
practice and actively engaging students in learning history, that it
has implications regarding selecting texts that will evoke a more
personal response than dry textbooks (as we were examining earlier) and
then allowing for those personal responses rather than JUST examination
of the facts.

[becky.br...@tcss.net]

Chris,

Any idea how to get in touch with Beauchamp about his documentary?

I teach 10th and 11th grade US History. I plan to get a classroom set
of both of your books and have my students read both books and do a
comparison of non-fiction and fiction of a historical event. I will
use this as an introduction to The Civil Rights Movement. This will be
the first time I have done this type of activity. Do you have any
suggestions or resources that I could use with this type of activity?
Becky

[melissa]

Why do you think Mrs. Bryant hasn't said anything about Emmett Till and
her part in his murder to anyone?

[chris...@byu.edu]

The reader response approach is the one I advocate most for secondary
classroom instruction, and I hope that books like mine will help young
readers, many of whom share a naivete about racism similar to the real
Emmett and the fictional Hiram, gain some personal sense of what our
country was like in the 1950s. I've always loved the 'story' part of
his-story, and it's sad that textbooks don't have the space to tell the
stories that make history. Writing these books certainly acquainted
me with a version of history I'd never read about in the textbooks I'd
encountered as a student. As a teacher of YA literature, I recommend
that history teachers use good YA fiction and nonfiction to complement
their textbooks and the study of history.

Chris

Chris

[chris...@byu.edu]

Becky, Beauchamp has a website that includes a trailer from the film.
I can never recall the exact title, but it has Emmett Louis Till in the
title. A Google search will probably turn up his website. Now I
recall the title: "The Untold Story of Emmett Louis Till." There.

Here's some information about other resources:

There are some great resources available for teachers. The PBS
documentary, "The Murder of Emmett Till," and its accompanying website.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/till/ The video/DVD is wonderfully done
(with no help from me), and the website is loaded with material,
including a teacher's guide. Another source comes from CBS News. On
October 21, 2004, 60 Minutes aired a special update on the case. I'm
sure a video of that is available, but the full text, including a
recent photo of Carolyn Bryant, is on the internet too:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/21/60minutes/main650652.shtml
Finally, Christopher Metress' book, The Lynching of Emmett Till: A
Documentary Narrative, is loaded with newspaper and magazine reports
about the kidnapping, murder, and trial, and also has essays, poems,
and other works written in reaction to the case.

Chris

[chris...@byu.edu]

Melissa, I'm not sure why Mrs. Bryant has remained silent. I've
guessed that her courtroom testimony probably contained some
falsehoods, so she may be concerned about perjury. She might also be
ashamed of any involvement she had in the case, including being married
to a murderer.

Chris

[Gregory Michael Dorr]

Chris, Becky, et. al.:

In answer to Becky's question, I can put you in touch with Beauchamp.
David Beito, in the UA History Dept., too, has been working on the Till
case, with especial reference to coerced African American complicity.

Greg

--
Gregory Michael Dorr, Ph.D.
Asst. Professor
Dept. of History
Box 870212
University of Alabama
Tuscaloosa, AL 35487-0212
205-348-1854
gd...@bama.ua.edu

[Lisa Matherson]

Chris - Were you able to talk/interview Carolyn Bryant? If so, do you
think that she will ever divulge the truth on her own or if she will be
made to during the new investigations or if at all?

[jjen...@chs.tusc.k12.al.us]

Chris, What really led you to wanting to know more about E. Till. Were
you not aware of the conditions surrounding the south. Dont you think
the SUPREME COURT should have played a major role in the court
procedures.?

[chris...@byu.edu]

Lisa, as far as I know, no one has ever managed an interview with
Carolyn Bryant. Stanley Nelson, the producer of the PBS documentary,
tried very hard to get her to talk, but she's steadfastly refused all
interview requests.

Chris

[rham...@chs.tusc.k12.al.us]

Hi Chris,

I have two questions for you.

1- Why do you think historians put more of an importance about the
Montgomery Bus Boycott sparking the Civil Rights Movement than on the
murder of Emmett Till?
2- I have heard that the Emmett Till case has been reopened. Do you
think that someone would subpoena Mrs. Bryant during another trial?

[ryan.bal...@tcss.net]

Do you think that it took the image of murdered Emmit to spark
enlightenment of intolerance in the south or would the story itself
have substantiated the social reaction in America

[chris...@byu.edu]

Greg, that's to mentioning David Beito. He's one of the leading
experts on the case, and certainly much more of a historian than I am.
David has an excellent website that would be helpful in reading,
discussing, and writing about the Till case.

Chris

[chris...@byu.edu]

I was aware, in an academic sense, or the situations of the South in
the 1950s and before, but I'd never heard of Emmett until I was working
on a biography of Mildred D. Taylor. She made a vague reference to a
boy from Chicago who had been murdered in her home state of Mississippi
when she herself was about 14 or 15. I tracked down that allusion and
was stunned by what I found. This whole experience has come of my own
ignorance, and writing books about Emmett has done much to fill in the
gaps left by my formal education.

Yes, the Supreme Court should have done something about the case.
Eisenhower should have done something---and Emmett's mother appealed to
him for help. Despite the 1954 Brown v. Board decision, the US
government was unwilling to push much harder, apparently.

Chris

[jjen...@chs.tusc.k12.al.us]

Chris, my name is Jerome. I asked about Supreme Court,s procedures.

[chris...@byu.edu]

Good questions. I think that the textbook version of US civil rights
goes from Brown v Board to Rosa Parks because these are relatively tidy
stories. The story of Emmett Till is ugly and shameful, an
embarrassment to the culture that allowed such conditions to exist.
Since that dominant culture writes history, it's not too surprising
that the Till case is usually neglected. None of us likes to recall
the darkest moments from our past.

The case was reopened in May, and, yes, I think if there is another
trial, that Carolyn Bryant would likely be called to testify.

[ZuZu]

This is Barbara not ZuZu.
Do You think Carolyn Bryant will ever tell what happened or reveal the
name the "mysterious third person" who was involved before she dies?

[rham...@chs.tusc.k12.al.us]

Hi Chris,
A third question.
Do you think that Mrs. Bryant might plead the 5th Amendment during a
new testimony?

Russell Hammack

[chris...@byu.edu]

I'm convinced that Emmett's mother's decision to postpone the funeral
and have a viewing was a landmark moment in American history. The
viewing led to the photo, and the photo led to shock, horror, and
eventually outrage. That grisly image woke people up and caught the
attention of the media machine. The intense media coverage of the case
shined a bright spotlight on racism in Mississippi and other Southern
states. It set the stage perfectly for Rosa Park's action in December.
A protest with no audience will have little effect. The Montgomery
Bus Boycott had the eyes and ears of America in large part because of
the interest and attention generate by the case, which was generated by
that terrible photograph.

Chris

[chris...@byu.edu]

Barbara, I have no idea what Carolyn Bryant will do. She has lived
silently with this case for a long time. She may not even know who
else was involved in the actual torture and murder. Based on Mose
Wright's testimony, howver, she was there when the men kidnapped
Emmett. If someone else was in the car, she would know that much at
least.

Chris

[chris...@byu.edu]

Russell, Mrs. Bryant might very well use the right to remain silent.
I'm not sure of the legalities here---maybe she could be compelled to
testify? She might also be able to plead old age. Her recollections
after all would be 50 years old. Would a jury consider such dated
recollections as valid evidence? Again, I don't know, but it's very
interesting to wonder about.

Chris

[rham...@chs.tusc.k12.al.us]

Hi Chris,
This is Russell again, and I have another question.
If Mrs. Bryant is uncooperative, and she was at the scene of the
original kidnapping, could they also accuse her of murder?

Thanks for answering our questions!!!
The books are wonderful!!!

[jjen...@chs.tusc.k12.al.us]

Chris, I am a fifty year old black male and I became aware of Till
while in college. My last question is concerning the 13th, 14th, and
15th amendments. Iivolving the nature of the crime aganist Till, whats
your opinion of the constitution that we so honor?.

[chris...@byu.edu]

Russell, these are good questions that someone more lawyerly than I am
would have to answer with any authority. I suppose she could be
considered an accessory to kidnapping and/or murder if it could be
shown that she was somehow involved in the crimes. Perhaps that's why
she's remained silent all these years. Perhaps, though, she's remained
silent because she's ashamed of what her ex-husband did.

I've enjoyed this conversation very much. I consider it an honor to
chat with teachers about my books.

Chris

[ryan.bal...@tcss.net]

thank you for your responses

[becky.br...@tcss.net]

Chris,
Thank you so much for your time. You have done a wonderful job
responding to our questions. I have gained so much that I can use with
my students.
Do you have other books that you are working on?
Thank you again.
Becky

[rham...@chs.tusc.k12.al.us]

Chris,

Because of your knolwedge concerning the Emmett Till case, would you
ever consult with and perhaps write for high school textbooks?

Russell Hammack

[Lisa Matherson]

Considering that this year will be the 50th anniversary, have you heard
of any memorial taking place? I know that Lawrence Wofford of Selma
Alabama has created a tour of the site through the Democratic Project
but I wonder if there will be some sort of national rememberance.

[chris...@byu.edu]

Well, I think the US Constitution is pretty great, but maybe our
enforcement of its principles is what needs improving. The 13, 14, and
15 amendments showed that we had to close some loopholes and clarify
some principles regarding the laws of our land. The various Civil
Rights acts also showed that we just kept getting it wrong.

The best laws in the world won't prevent people with criminal intent
from committing crimes. I would hope, however, that the vigorous
enforcement of the Constituion and its amendments would help create a
society where we're less likely to develop people with criminal intent.

Chris

[jd...@bamaed.ua.edu]

Thanks again, Chris! This has been amazing to read and "listen" to the
conversation. I have enjoyed this experience and being a part of
teachers being able to participate in this experience. Like you, I am
eager to see more connections between methods in English and Social
Sciences, as there is such a rich mine field there. I cannot wait to
get home and re-read the archives of this dialogue when I can really
digest it. We appreciate your participation and generosity in working
with us!

Jennifer

[Lisa Matherson]

Thank you so very much for taking time to engage with us in this
wonderful opportunity.

[ZuZu]

This is Barbara again.
Thank you for response. Your book is really indept and should open the
eyes of passive and nonchalant people. It did ours!
Again, thank you so very much.

[chris...@byu.edu]

Becky, right now I'm working on two books. The first is a novel,
Playing Naked. It's the story of a bi-racial teenage boy who's been
adopted into a white family. It's based a little on the lives of my
two youngest children. I'm also working on a nonfiction book about
William Mariner, a teenager who was marooned in Tonga in the South
Pacific in 1806. In the future, I will write a biography for teenagers
about Thurgood Marshall.

Thanks for asking.

Chris

[rham...@chs.tusc.k12.al.us]

Chris,
Thanks again for the conversation, it was indeed a great pleasure!

Russell Hammack

[chris...@byu.edu]

Russell, well, it would be fun to be a consultant for a history
textbook, but I don't know about writing one. People like David Beito
and Christopher Metress have a much more comprehensive and academic
knowledge of the case than I do.

On the other hand, I do love history and writing, so who knows?

Chris

[ZuZu]

Hi Chris,
Thank you for working with us this morning. This meant so much to
all of us. The teachers are signing off and going to lunch. Have a
great afternoon. I'll be in touch again.
ZuZU

[chris...@byu.edu]

Lisa, it would be nice if there were some sort of national remembrance,
but I've not heard of anything beyond the conference hosted by Stillman
College on September 15-17, 2005: "THe Murder of Emmett Till and the
Struggle for Civil Rights." I wouldn't be surprised if Chicago had
some sort of memorial event, but I've not heard anything in detail.

Chris

[chris...@byu.edu]

Jennifer, it's been my pleasure. Thanks for getting me involved.

Chris

[chris...@byu.edu]

ZuZu, thank you for setting all this up. And thanks to all you
teachers who participated and who are using my books. Enjoy lunch and
the rest of the program.

All the best,

Chris