Bar/Tube stock vendor recommendations?

[Oz]

Hi Guys -

Starting to do some bike hacking. Are there any recommendations on where to source bar and tube stock in town? Any luck with particular ebay vendors?

TIA -

Mike

[shawn looker]

Totally not helpful, but I read that as "Bar/Tube Sock vendor recommendations".

I was totally interested in what kind of tube sock hacking you were doing.

shawn

[BillT]

This totally depends on how much stock you want to buy, what kind and
how much you are willing to pay. Are you looking for aluminum or
steel tubing? If the vendor doesn't stock it, they can order most
anything. Also, raw materials usually come in longer lengths (i.e.
20') and there is a "cut" fee if you need it shorter. Ask so you can
budget. If you only need shorter pieces, places like OnlineMetals.com
are good and have decent shipping costs. Andrew B, who put on the
machine shop class recently, picked up his metal from Amazon.com.
With the free shipping, it was a pretty good deal. Having said that,
Curtis Steel will probably have what you need locally. Here is a link
to their website:

http://www.curtissteel.com/

I've dealt with them in the past and they are pricey on small
quantities. It may be a wash with ordering online and adding
shipping. I'd love to see what you're building. I was thinking about
building a tadpole recumbent trike sometime in the future. Is anybody
else doing any bike hacking?

--BillT

[Mark J. Koch]

http://www.mcmaster.com is not local but they usually ship stuff out of
los angeles area in a couple days and have pretty low shipping rates.

Mark

[shawn looker]

I'd definitely like to do some bike hacking, but I don't know the first place to start.  I'd definitely be interesting in learning though if anyone wanted to show us noobs some stuff.  I can't imagine I'm the only person interested but without the know how?

shawn

[Mike Osborne]

Thanks for the lead, Bill.

I'm just starting also. I just moved into my new house last month and finished setting up my workshop this weekend. So now I'm itching to weld something!

I bought a few plans from atomiczombie.com. I thought I'd build the cyclebully trailer as a first project:

 

Assuming that goes well, my summer project will likely be the Kyoto tandem trike:

 

Anyone that wants to come by while I flail around in the shop is welcome. :)

Mike

[Krismon ongbongan]

If you're looking to do a "standard" bike read on.. recumbents or otherwise ignore this email. :)

<commercial break>

I might be convinced to part with my extra set of Dedacciai chromoly double butted tubes. Complete for a whole set - head, top, seat, & down tubes, seat & chain stays.  I don't remember if I have dropouts though. No Bottom bracket.

Strong enough for mountain bike. long enough for road bike. fillet braze or TIG weld. Will build a sub 5lb. frame.

Also have extra uncarved Pacenti lugs (including lugged bottom bracket - english thread) for a road/track bike for silver brazing.. I don't remember the geometry, might be stamped on them.

</commercial break>

Now that the commercial is over, I wouldn't recommend tube stock for building bikes, too heavy. But really depends on what you're building.. A "standard" road or mountain bike can be built with less than $100 in decent tubes (think top of the line steel frame from the mid-90's).

I would recommend henry james for bike frame parts. http://www.henryjames.com/price10.pdf

Kris.

[BillT]

The Kyoto Tandem looks like a sweet ride! Most of the frame looks
like thin wall square tubing. You might be able to recycle some junk
bikes for the rest of the parts. BTW, welding in our 112F summers is
not fun. I usually save my welding projects for the other 4 months of
the year. Wasn't there talk about doing a bike exchange out of the
new space when it's ready?

--BillT

On Mar 19, 8:38 pm, Mike Osborne <mikeosbo...@techie.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the lead, Bill.
>
> I'm just starting also. I just moved into my new house last month and
> finished setting up my workshop this weekend. So now I'm itching to weld
> something!
>
> I bought a few plans from atomiczombie.com. I thought I'd build the
> cyclebully trailer as a first project:
>

> Assuming that goes well, my summer project will likely be the Kyoto tandem
> trike:
>

[shawn looker]

If one was to want to become involved, is there a "bike building for dummies"? ;) 

shawn

[Mike Osborne]

I'm new to all this too, Shawn. My experience with this sort of stuff is to just dive in, accept that mistakes will be made, and improve as you go along.

 - I've never welded before, so I read the welding book in /usr/lib, watched some videos on youtube and atomiczombie. Everything I read says it's simply a matter of practice. I acquired this HF welder last weekend on sale, so now I'm ready to practice.

 - I never really did much in the way of bicycle maintenance, so I just watched some videos. atomiczombie has some good free videos on how to chop a donor frame up, save the usable parts, and disassemble the bearings from the head tube and crank tube, etc. It all seems pretty straight forward.

 - I picked up Bicycle Builder's Bonanza off Amazon. Good introductory bike hacking material and 7 or 8 bike plans to boot.

So I'm just a noob too, but this is a pretty approachable hobby. Lots of good info out there; just dive in!

Mike

[Pauls Mule]

I prefer the 25"

http://www.skatersocks.com/25inchsocks.html

[Pauls Mule]

We should totally get some logo'd out tube socks for Syn Shop peeps!

[BillT]

I'm not sure that an arc welder is the appropriate tool for thin-wall
tubing. If you have any gas welding experience, brazing or silver
brazing might be a better choice. Getting the arc welder to a low
enough setting to keep it from blowing a hole in the tubing may be
your biggest challenge (or high enough to make a solid weld without
heat distortion). Definitely practice a lot before committing to
welding your final frame and keep notes on what settings work best
with different thicknesses of steel. I have a cheat sheet taped to my
MIG welder so I don't have to re-discover the right settings every
time. Have fun playing!

--BillT

On Mar 20, 7:13 am, Mike Osborne <mikeosbo...@techie.com> wrote:
> I'm new to all this too, Shawn. My experience with this sort of stuff is to
> just dive in, accept that mistakes will be made, and improve as you go
> along.
>
>  - I've never welded before, so I read the welding book in /usr/lib,
> watched some videos on youtube and atomiczombie. Everything I read says
> it's simply a matter of practice. I acquired this

> <http://www.harborfreight.com/80-amp-inverter-arc-welder-91110.html>HF

> welder last weekend on sale, so now I'm ready to practice.
>
>  - I never really did much in the way of bicycle maintenance, so I just
> watched some videos. atomiczombie has some good free videos on how to chop
> a donor frame up, save the usable parts, and disassemble the bearings from
> the head tube and crank tube, etc. It all seems pretty straight forward.
>
>  - I picked up Bicycle Builder's

> Bonanza<http://www.amazon.com/Atomic-Zombies-Bicycle-Builders-Bonanza/dp/0071...>off

[shawn looker]

It may not be the best, but from what I've read it seems to be the easiest... 

Where's a good place to get scrap steel to test welds on?

[Mark J. Koch]

You might ask a few of the local fabrication shops.

I know of:

RSFab http://rsfab.com/ and

FabTech
http://www.fabtech.com/contactus.html

I would call and ask nicely. Let them know you are just a hobbyist
looking for a few pounds of some scrap to practice with.

Mark

On 3/20/12 11:43 AM, shawn looker wrote:
> It may not be the best, but from what I've read it seems to be the
> easiest...
>
> Where's a good place to get scrap steel to test welds on?
>
> On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 9:51 AM, BillT <btom...@gmail.com
> <mailto:btom...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure that an arc welder is the appropriate tool for thin-wall
> tubing. If you have any gas welding experience, brazing or silver
> brazing might be a better choice. Getting the arc welder to a low
> enough setting to keep it from blowing a hole in the tubing may be
> your biggest challenge (or high enough to make a solid weld without
> heat distortion). Definitely practice a lot before committing to
> welding your final frame and keep notes on what settings work best
> with different thicknesses of steel. I have a cheat sheet taped to my
> MIG welder so I don't have to re-discover the right settings every
> time. Have fun playing!
>
> --BillT
>
> On Mar 20, 7:13 am, Mike Osborne <mikeosbo...@techie.com

[BillT]

Curtis Steel sells cutoffs for $0.55/lb or you can ask around. A lot
of people have pieces of scrap or junk that can be repurposed into a
welding lab experiment. Scrounging works too. Just make sure you
clean off all the rust before you start welding or it can be very
frustrating, especially with arc welding. Also avoid anything that is
galvanized. Zinc fumes are toxic.

--BillT

[Shawn Bever]

Hi Everyone,

What sort of material are you planning to use Mike? The most common
choices include mild steel (fairly easy to bend, fabricate and weld, but
heavy), 4130 Chromoly steel (very strong and light, but more difficult
to bend and fabricate) and large -diameter aluminium (6061 is a popular
allow, very light, fairly easy to bend and fabricate, but can have
problems with fatigue). With 6061 aluminium, I would recommend using a
heat-treated stock, T4 is pretty good if bending/forming (tubing/sheet)
and T6 can be used for parts that are to be machined. In my experience,
T6 does not bend well, so I wouldn't recommend T6 for tubing that needs
to be bent.

I've had the idea of building a tandem 3 or 4 wheeler for a few years.
Before my vision got really bad I used to cycle on a daily basis. I
estimate that I pedaled over 25,000 miles in the years 1980 through
1987, when I finally got off of the bike for good. I own a Santana
tandem, but I have yet to find a riding partner. My girlfriend has a
medical condition that affects her sense of balance, which is how I came
to the idea of a 3 or 4 wheeled tandem.

Shawn

[Shawn Bever]

Mike, I'm definitely interested in the trike.

Shawn

[Shawn Bever]

I agree with Bill on this. Brazing requires less heat, which translates
into less fatigue of the metal adjacent to the weld, while still getting
a nice strong result.

Shawn

[Brian Munroe]

On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 10:58 PM, Shawn Bever <shawn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I agree with Bill on this.  Brazing requires less heat, which translates
> into less fatigue of the metal adjacent to the weld, while still getting a
> nice strong result.
>

Hey guys, I too am really excited about building bikes. I have bought
a few of the Atomic Zombie plans and have an old BMX bike I was going
to chop up and build a SpinCycle [1] out of.

It seems like there is quite a few people interested in this, so I
propose that we have a bike building / metal working meeting in the
next few weeks. Anyone up for getting together Sunday Apr 1st at SYN
Shop?

I'm totally out of practice with using any kind of welding, but I have
a wire-feed and a small oxy-acetylene rig that I have been jones'n to
learn how to braze with.

Krux, are you going to be around on Apr 1st? Can we use the space?
If not, we can certainly make other arrangements.

-- brian

[1] - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Dv3gxut3Oc

[T-Storm]

I passed a steel fab place on Main earlier today, in between city hall
and the strip somewhere. They might have some scrap.

On Mar 19, 5:03 pm, Oz <ozpo...@gmail.com> wrote:

[shawn looker]

I'm definitely up for that, Brian.

[Krux]

While i'd also like to be involved, that weekend is not good for me.


perl -e 's==UBER?=+y[:-o]}(;->\n{q-yp-y+k}?print:??;-p#)'

[BillT]

A class sounds like fun. I'd be willing to teach what I know about
welding (mostly trial and error stuff, being a backyard engineer). I
can bring my MIG welder. It's set up for arc welding right now. Does
anyone have a gas rig they can bring or extra goggles, arc welding
helmets and arc welding gloves? I can bring some steel scrap to play
with too. My schedule is fairly open for the next few weekends.

--BillT

On Mar 20, 11:10 pm, Brian Munroe <brian.e.mun...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Brian Munroe]

On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 8:26 AM, BillT <btom...@gmail.com> wrote:

> A class sounds like fun.  I'd be willing to teach what I know about
> welding (mostly trial and error stuff, being a backyard engineer).  I
> can bring my MIG welder.  It's set up for arc welding right now.  Does
> anyone have a gas rig they can bring or extra goggles, arc welding
> helmets and arc welding gloves?  I can bring some steel scrap to play
> with too.  My schedule is fairly open for the next few weekends.
>

So I really want to do this!

Since Krux won't be around for my proposed Apr 1st date (and I doubt
he wants us in there welding while he isn't home, I know I wouldn't),
then we can do a few things:

1) Reschedule for a date that works for Krux.

2) Host the workshop elsewhere. I'd be willing to host it but I don't
have 220v, only 110v. My garage and side yard is pretty good size.

3) Still plan on getting together elsewhere, but just talk about the
direction of group and what projects we all want to work on (Gross! I
sound like a manager or something!)

I too have a small oxy/acetylene rig, a 110v MIG welder (not sure how
well it works)

As far as safety equipment, Krux and I believe that people should own
their own equipment. Unfortunately, SYN Shop doesn't have a budget
for safety equipment (that sounds bad! Don't worry, we will once we
move downtown) - so it is really up to the individual to go hit up
Harbor Freight and get a welding helmet / gloves.

Also, if you get auto-darkening kind, you can adjust the darkness to
work with acetylene welding / brazing ( http://goo.gl/ygdoB )

So, in closing, I'd be ok with 2, 3 and 1 in that order. What does
everyone else think?

-- brian

[BillT]

Hi Brian,

My MIG welder is 110v so no worries on the power. I'd bring my oxy/
acetylene rig, but it's a hassle to move around. I have 2 pairs of
oxy/acetylene goggles and Harbor Freight is having a sale coming up on
a auto-darkening arc welding helmet for $45 (cheap!). This is the
plain jane one not the one with the flames and I don't know if it's
adjustable. I have brass brazing rod, an extra pair of welding gloves
and some practice scrap metal that I can bring as well. I'm open for
most weekends in April. Any other takers?

--Bill

On Mar 26, 8:50 am, Brian Munroe <brian.e.mun...@gmail.com> wrote:

[shawn looker]

Hey guys. 

I now have 220v and a stick welder, and we can hold it in my garage on the 1st if you want.  My garage is kind of messy, but there should be plenty of room since I cleaned it up some. 

I bought the flame welder mask and it works great with the arc welder. 

So my vote is to do it the 1st still, as I want to get started. :)

shawn

[Mike Osborne]

+1!

This weekend works great for me. I'll volunteer my shop also, but no 220 either. Let's do it!

Mike

[Rodrigo Reyes]

not wanting to be an ass or anything, but this begs the question of emergency response equipment. In the event that a catastrophy occurs (always assume it will) is there sufficient first aid to help sustain an individual, and/or sustain the "life" of any limbs that may find themselves permanently lost otherwise?

If not, I'm willing to donate to ensure that horrible situations are at least reduced to bad situations.

[Brian Munroe]

Ok, I'll let Shawn and Mike fight it out!

-- brian

[shawn looker]

I'm indifferent as long as we have it.  :) 

I have 220 if that's a concern, (my welder is 220) but other than that, I'm open for whatever.

shawn

[BillT]

Good point Rodrigo. Are you by chance an EMT? Also, does Syn Shop
have any stock limit of liability forms available for classes like
these? Since it's welding, standard clothing should be long sleeves
(high UV from arc or MIG welding), long pants (hot sparks from arc or
MIG), closed toe shoes or boots. The work area should be free of all
flammables. Sparks bounce a long way on concrete too. I haven't done
any stick welding in a long time, but if anyone wants a demonstration,
we'll need 220v.

--BillT

On Mar 26, 10:06 am, Rodrigo Reyes <rodre...@zappos.com> wrote:
> not wanting to be an ass or anything, but this begs the question of emergency response equipment.  In the event that a catastrophy occurs (always assume it will) is there sufficient first aid to help sustain an individual, and/or sustain the "life" of any limbs that may find themselves permanently lost otherwise?
>
> If not, I'm willing to donate to ensure that horrible situations are at least reduced to bad situations.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: syn...@googlegroups.com [mailto:syn...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Munroe
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 8:51 AM
> To: syn...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [synshop] Re: Bar/Tube stock vendor recommendations?
>

[Rodrigo Reyes]

unfortunately I'm not, its just that shop safety was stressed a lot when I was in school and the horror stories from my teachers definitely stuck =D

[BillT]

Hi Rodrigo,

Good to know. I'm a safety freak when I weld, but I still
occasionally forget that the object I'm welding is hot after I take
the torch off. Most likely wounds would be burns, electrocution (if
there is exposed wiring I would not arc or MIG weld anything) and
blindness from looking at the arc without a helmet. As long as
everyone is wearing long sleeves, long pants and closed toe shoes most
injury would be from flying sparks or from handling the welded object
before it cools down. I think this can all be controlled if the work
area is clear and basic safety rules are explained before we begin.
Does anyone have a basic first aid kit just in case?

--BillT

[Krux]

As an important safety note.  Goggles appropriate for oxy/acetylene are not sufficient for Arc/MIG welding.

perl -e 's==UBER?=+y[:-o]}(;->\n{q-yp-y+k}?print:??;-p#)'

BillT <btom...@gmail.com> wrote:


Hi Brian,

My MIG welder is 110v so no worries on the power. I'd bring my oxy/
acetylene rig, but it's a hassle to move around.  I have 2 pairs of
oxy/acetylene goggles and Harbor Freight is having a sale coming up on
a auto-darkening arc welding helmet for $45 (cheap!).  This is the
plain jane one not the one with the flames and I don't know if it's
adjustable.  I have brass brazing rod, an extra pair of welding gloves
and some practice scrap metal that I can bring as well.  I'm open for
most weekends in April.  Any other takers?

--Bill

On Mar 26, 8:50 am, Brian Munroe <brian.e.mun...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Krux]

I think we should pick up an eye wash station once we get to the new location.

perl -e 's==UBER?=+y[:-o]}(;->\n{q-yp-y+k}?print:??;-p#)'

Rodrigo Reyes <rodr...@zappos.com> wrote:


not wanting to be an ass or anything, but this begs the question of emergency response equipment.  In the event that a catastrophy occurs (always assume it will) is there sufficient first aid to help sustain an individual, and/or sustain the "life" of any limbs that may find themselves permanently lost otherwise?

If not, I'm willing to donate to ensure that horrible situations are at least reduced to bad situations.

-----Original Message-----
From: syn...@googlegroups.com [mailto:syn...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Munroe
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 8:51 AM
To: syn...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [synshop] Re: Bar/Tube stock vendor recommendations?

[Aakin]

Regarding clothing for safety, I'd suggest sticking to natural fibers - cotton/denim work really well. Synthetic fibers (like polyester) have a tendency to melt to the skin and make matters worse.

- Aakin 

[Brian Munroe]

Here is some shop safety guidelines I started writing up a while ago:

http://goo.gl/XRTsd

-- brian

[BillT]

Hi Brian,

Good information on the safety. Goggles are fine for brazing, but for
arc welding, MIG or TIG welding (now called GMAW and GTAW) you need a
full face welders mask. I have one full face mask and was planning on
buying another one at Harbor Freight at their next sale. I also have
2 pairs of regular goggles for gas welding that I can bring. I have 2
pairs of arc welder's gloves as well.

-- BillT

On Mar 26, 1:07 pm, Brian Munroe <brian.e.mun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here is some shop safety guidelines I started writing up a while ago:
>
> http://goo.gl/XRTsd
>
> -- brian
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Aakin <aa...@aakin.net> wrote:
> > Regarding clothing for safety, I'd suggest sticking to natural fibers -
> > cotton/denim work really well. Synthetic fibers (like polyester) have a
> > tendency to melt to the skin and make matters worse.
>
> > - Aakin
>

[shawn looker]

Currently the welding masks are on sale at Harbor Freight, and the welding gloves are about $4.  I need to pick up a chipping hammer too, and they're about $5 for anyone interested in picking up stuff.

shawn

[Mike Osborne]

I just got a HF coupon for the unadorned auto darkening welding mask for $40 if anyone needs one.

Mike

[Shawn Bever]

I'd be OK with that order of prioritization.

Shawn

[Shawn Bever]

That sounds fine to me.

Shawn

[Shawn Bever]

Rigo, you raise a very valid point. I have a small fire extinguisher
(around here somewhere) that I could bring along.

Shawn

[Shawn Bever]

Out of respect to Brian and all who plan to attend the welding class,
I'm giving you all a chance to express any concerns or reservations that
you may have about persons with limited vision attending the class.

Shawn

[shawn looker]

None here.  You're a smart guy.   And you spell your name right.

shawn

[BillT]

Hi Shawn,

Can you describe what you mean by "limited vision"? I'm not sure if
it will be a concern except that most welding is about looking at the
"weld pool" (the hot spot). Color blindness might be a concern but
only if you are heat-treating -- often done by waiting for a "color"
to appear on the metal before quenching.

-- BillT

On Mar 26, 2:42 pm, Shawn Bever <shawn.be...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Out of respect to Brian and all who plan to attend the welding class,
> I'm giving you all a chance to express any concerns or reservations that
> you may have about persons with limited vision attending the class.
>
> Shawn
>
> On 3/26/2012 1:07 PM, Brian Munroe wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Here is some shop safety guidelines I started writing up a while ago:
>
> >http://goo.gl/XRTsd
>
> > -- brian
>
> > On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Aakin<aa...@aakin.net>  wrote:
> >> Regarding clothing for safety, I'd suggest sticking to natural fibers -
> >> cotton/denim work really well. Synthetic fibers (like polyester) have a
> >> tendency to melt to the skin and make matters worse.
>
> >> - Aakin
>

[Shawn Bever]

Right back at you :)

[Shawn Bever]

Hi Bill,

I don't have much visual acuity at all. Almost no color perception, no
peripheral vision and so forth. I can see light and dark shapes when
lighting conditions are correct and sufficient contrast exists between
objects/patterns. For example, I am sitting in my office writing this
message with a moderate amount of light from a window covered by black
solar (sun) shade material. My Windows desktop color scheme is set up
using the high contrast white on black color scheme. What can I see? I
can tell that the wall in front of me is painted a light color and that
there is a shelf on it about 20 inches above the desk. I can only make
out the shelf and its contents as a dark horizontal region- I can't
tell what is on the shelf.. I can tell that my computer monitor is set
to a dark background, light foreground scheme, which is far more
comforatable for me to look at. While I cannot read the screen or work
with a mouse visually, I can detect changes, such as a window opening or
closing, ora web page loading, for example.

I know that I will not be doing any gas welding or brazing. I tried
that many years ago and realized that I didn't have enough sight to do
it. I may not be able to do any of the electric variants of welding
either, but I have never tried, so I don't know yet.

I would like to attend for the following reasons:

1. Learn more about welding, particularly electric welding.
2. Assess whether or not electric welding is feasible for me to do.
3. Talk with others about bike building and hacking.

I hope this somewhat lengthy narrative has succeeded in shining a little
light on how I see the world around me. By all means, any and all
questions or comments are welcome.

Shawn

[BillT]

Hi Shawn. I totally admire your willingness to participate. I
suspect that a lot of the class will be general safety information,
how to set up and use the equipment plus demonstrations. Possibly
some one-on-one for general technique as time permits. If you are not
able to see well enough to gas weld, then electric arc welding is
probably not feasible either. However, you are welcome to explore and
find out because testing our limits is what this is all about. Having
said all of that and more in all these emails today, let's not forget
that this started out with a question about bike hacking. Maybe with
this general welding class we can discuss which methods are
appropriate for building bikes and how a builder might approach a
project. Does anyone have a trash bike we can franken-bike together
at the class? At least it would be good practice...

--BillT

[shawn looker]

Sadly I do not, but the atomic zombie bike bonanza book also suggested that if you have no spare bikes, you could pick up electrical conduit (he uses 1" in a lot of his designs he says) and use that.  10 feet of 1" conduit is ~$7 at home depot.

shawn

[Brian Munroe]

I HAVE A BMX BIKE THAT WE CAN USE!

-- brian

[BillT]

My only issue with electrical conduit is that it's galvanized to
protect the metal from the outdoors. Everything I've read says that
zinc should not be welded because the fumes are fairly toxic. I've
welded conduit before (after trying in vain to clean off the
galvanizing) and the welds always look terrible. Is there a non-
galvanized electrical conduit out there or is there some trick to
welding it cleanly?

-- BillT

[shawn looker]

That I'm not 100% sure on.  I'm just going from what I've read so far. :)  I didn't think that all conduit was galvanized, but looking at the stuff on the home depot site, I do see that its coated with Zinc.  Bummer. :/  I wonder what the price is for tubing from Curtis Steel or some other place local.

[Brian Munroe]

I have some pretty thick walled tubing that we can try to weld. I am
bringing the SYN Shop chop saw and an angle grinder, so we should at
least try to weld some up.

I'm really interested in getting a tubing bender so that we can make
more intricate shapes, but the I'm worried about the output and
quality of the cheap ones I see from HF.

-- brian

[shawn looker]

I haven't looked at the ones at HF, but the ones at home depot seemed okay.  I'll take a look at the HF ones next time I'm over there.  Seems like they'd be pretty cut and dry, since there's no complex moving parts.

[shawn looker]

So I called Curtis Steel and they said for 1" steel tubing (non galvanized) at 1/8" thickness it was about $1 a foot with 20 foot stock. 

shawn

[Joshua Hahn]

You should give CMC Economy Steel a call too. (702) 871-5700. 

[shawn looker]

Will do when  I get a chance later today.  Thanks!

[shawn looker]

They were about 21.43 for a 20 foot bar.  So its pretty close to the same, depending on what "about $1 a foot" means exactly.

Also, is 1/8" thickness too thick, just right, or not thick enough? 

shawn 

[Mike Osborne]

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 2:36 PM, shawn looker <ev...@curs.es> wrote:

They were about 21.43 for a 20 foot bar.  So its pretty close to the same, depending on what "about $1 a foot" means exactly.

Also, is 1/8" thickness too thick, just right, or not thick enough? 

shawn 

The AZ plans I'm using call for 1/16" thickness. I'm sure there's a significant weight difference.

Mike 

[shawn looker]

What's the best way to cut the tubes?  Disc grinder with a zip disc?

[Aakin]

Pipe cutter.

[shawn looker]

Can you get away with the cheaper ones that are made for copper, or do you need the $30+ ones for steel?

[Brian Munroe]

I have a chop saw that I will be bringing (and that I was going to
donate to the shop):

http://www.ehow.com/video_4420160_chop-saw_.html

Also, if you go buy a 20' stick, they will cut it into manageable
sections. However, don't buy anything, I have quite a bit of scrap to
play with and I doubt we will need to buy anything until we start
doing actual projects.

-- brian

[Aakin]

I'm not sure.

[BillT]

Pipe cutters leave a raised lip that may need to be filed flat. If you
are going to fit the pieces before welding, then it doesn't really
matter. You need to fish-mouth tubing to make good joints. I usually
cut steel with my horizontal/vertical HF bandsaw. If you are going to
do a lot of welding/assembly work, it's a great investment even though
you need to tweak it to make it work well. I got mine for under $200
with a 20% coupon a couple years ago. Before that, I used a chop
saw. You can also use the cut-off disks for an angle grinder. They
are thin kerf and work really well. Or you can use the "arm-strong"
method with a hacksaw.

-- BillT

On Mar 28, 2:43 pm, shawn looker <e...@curs.es> wrote:
> What's the best way to cut the tubes?  Disc grinder with a zip disc?
>

> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 2:42 PM, Mike Osborne <mikeosbo...@techie.com>wrote:

[Shawn Bever]

Are you sure you want 0.125" wall?  0.0625" seems like it would be sufficient and a lot lighter.

Shawn

[Shawn Bever]

0.625" wall thinkness should be good-  1/8" is a bit heavy.

Shawn

[Shawn Bever]

The ones for copper won't hold up on steel.

Shawn

[Shawn Bever]

You can use a chop saw or a pipe cutter for steel.  For making proper joints, especially with round tubing, a tubing notcher is pretty necessary.

Shawn

[kr...@thcnet.net]

> 0.625" wall thinkness should be good- 1/8" is a bit heavy.

Bah, go for a work out and make your bike out of 1/4" box steel and 1/2"
plate.

perl -e 's==UBER?=+y[:-o]}(;->\n{q-yp-y+k}?print:??;-p#)'

[shawn looker]

With some mag wheels and spinners?

[Shawn Bever]

Perfect for those training for the Iron Man competition.

Shawn

[shawn looker]

I could totally be in an iron man competition.  Wait... does my power source have to be fusion based? 

[Shawn Bever]

Perhaps some re-purposed train wheels to round out the whole 'heavy metal' theme?

[Shawn Bever]

You can use an alternative power source, as long as it's confusion-based.

Shawn

[shawn looker]

So for 20 feet of 1" with 1/16" width non galvanized steel tubing it was ~$12 at both places.  They charge $1 per cut to cut them to more managable sizes at CMC.  I forgot to ask at Curtis Steel about cuts.

For whenever we need tube stock. :)

[Brian Munroe]

They did it for free at Curtis.

So for this workshop, I'm bringing some scrap, but we could also run
to home depot or lowes as they have some smaller pieces - they are
more expensive but you're paying for convenience. I think as we do
more and more of these things, we'll get a much better understanding
of what is good for practicing on...

-- brian

[shawn looker]

Sweet, good to know.  I didn't have any luck at Lowes at all when I was looking for scrap.  I got some 1/4" stuff from home depot just to practice on but it was pricey.  I just hit the stage where I can get an arc going pretty regularly, but I haven't tried welding two pieces together (as I don't have two small pieces, only large ones).  I need to get a disc grinder soon. 

[James Dunbar]

It's best not to use a stick welder for bikes and amateur projects.
Use a wire feed with NOS (blend of gases for wire feed welding) or
just flux core. It's easy and has only 5k less strength! (65 v. 70)
there's a program that will help you along a lot with miter in the
tubes to fit with eachother. It's called tubemiter.exe. Google it and
download. It's very simple. Enter dia. Of one pipe and dia. Of other
plus angle of attack and viola! It prints out a template that you fit
around the tube! Easy as pie! Cake from a box even! Also, 1/8" is
waaay too thick. I'd come to the welding party with my welder, chop
saw, and angle grinder but I have plans... See you guys at the next
one!
James

On Mar 29, 1:24 pm, shawn looker <e...@curs.es> wrote:
> Sweet, good to know.  I didn't have any luck at Lowes at all when I was
> looking for scrap.  I got some 1/4" stuff from home depot just to practice
> on but it was pricey.  I just hit the stage where I can get an arc going
> pretty regularly, but I haven't tried welding two pieces together (as I
> don't have two small pieces, only large ones).  I need to get a disc
> grinder soon.
>

> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Brian Munroe <brian.e.mun...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > They did it for free at Curtis.
>
> > So for this workshop, I'm bringing some scrap, but we could also run
> > to home depot or lowes as they have some smaller pieces - they are
> > more expensive but you're paying for convenience.  I think as we do
> > more and more of these things, we'll get a much better understanding
> > of what is good for practicing on...
>
> > -- brian
>

> > On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 1:11 PM, shawn looker <e...@curs.es> wrote:
> > > So for 20 feet of 1" with 1/16" width non galvanized steel tubing it was
> > > ~$12 at both places.  They charge $1 per cut to cut them to more
> > managable
> > > sizes at CMC.  I forgot to ask at Curtis Steel about cuts.
>
> > > For whenever we need tube stock. :)
>

> > > On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Shawn Bever <shawn.be...@gmail.com>

> > wrote:
>
> > >> You can use an alternative power source, as long as it's
> > confusion-based.
>
> > >> Shawn
>
> > >> On 3/29/2012 10:10 AM, shawn looker wrote:
>
> > >> I could totally be in an iron man competition.  Wait... does my power
> > >> source have to be fusion based?
>

> > >> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Shawn Bever <shawn.be...@gmail.com>

> > >> wrote:
>
> > >> Perfect for those training for the Iron Man competition.
>
> > >> Shawn
>

[shawn looker]

Yeah, I figured out that it should be ~ 1/16" not 1/8".  The atomic zombie guy uses a stick welder with good results.  If I had a wire feed with NOS, I'd happily use that, but I don't unfortunately, so a stick welder is all I can really go for.  I don't have the cash for a new welder at the moment (how much are those anyway?)

[James Dunbar]

I got my welder at the pawn shop for $70 about... I havent hooked up
the gas yet but it has the capability. It was a harbor freight special
so it didn't have a very good duty cycle (time it takes for it to
overheat) so I put a 110cfm 120V fan in there and hooked it up to the
power switch and I get almost 100% on the highest setting! (was 10%!!)
It works great with the flux wire as long as I keep the nozzle dipped
in goop... Don't want to mess it up....