Google Code-In
Aaron Meurer
Google has invited us to participate in Google Code-In [0], which is a
contest that runs from November 21 to January 16 for pre-university
students aged 13-17. I think we should participate, but only if
enough people are willing to help. This is a lot different from
Google Summer of Code. For this program, we would have to create
several "tasks", which are then completed by the students. The tasks
should be relatively small, independent activities. This can include
things like fixing documentation and writing tests, or just fixing
some issue in the issue tracker. See [1] for more information.
Since this is a contest to complete the most tasks, we need to have a
high turnaround rate on the review of the tasks. According to [1],
the rate should be no more than 36 hours per task. This means that if
we participate, we will have to have enough people wiling to help
review pull requests so that we can achieve this over the entire
coding period. There is no specific person-to-person mentoring like
with GSoC. Rather, we as a community pass or fail each task.
Also, we would need to come up with a list of tasks, but this would
not be too hard. We would just create a label in the issue tracker,
and mark any good issues with that label, and also create new issues
for other ideas.
Finally, I want to remind that these are younger students than were in
GSoC. They will need more hand holding, and the quality of their work
will be much less (and sometimes, it will have to be rejected
outright, but remember that unlike GSoC, this is a contest).
So would enough people be willing to help out with this? GSoC
students, this is a good chance to take your knowledge of SymPy and
apply it to others. I recommend everyone read through [1] to get a
better idea about this program. If you can or can't contribute, it
would be great if you could let me know soon, as the deadline to apply
is November 1. Especially for the core developers, if you think you
won't have time to help out much, if you could let me know, that would
be great, so I could judge our potential manpower.
Aaron Meurer
[0] - http://www.google-melange.com/gci/homepage/google/gci2011
[1] - http://code.google.com/p/google-code-in/wiki/GCIAdminMentorInformation
Ondřej Čertík
Aaron, Mateusz and I are now at the Google Mentor Summit, and we all
agreed to go for it.
We can use our github pull requests for the review, so we just need to
finish our review web app (http://reviews.sympy.org/) to run tests
automatically for each pull request, and we should be just fine.
Would anyone be willing to help out with the reviews? In the
application we need to write how many mentors we have available.
Ondrej
Hector
I don't know am I qualified enough or not, but I would like to help in reviewing pull request. I can help with code, documentation, testing for sure. But I will be engaged between 16th Nov to 10th Dec. Other than that period, I am more than happy to help.
- Hector
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-Regards
Ondřej Čertík
On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 11:39 AM, Hector <hecto...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I don't know am I qualified enough or not, but I would like to help in
Absolutely you are qualified. Anybody who wants to help is welcomed
and since you already contributed to SymPy, you know how things work.
> reviewing pull request. I can help with code, documentation, testing for
> sure. But I will be engaged between 16th Nov to 10th Dec. Other than that
> period, I am more than happy to help.
Excellent, thanks! We'll count with you.
Ondrej
Aaron Meurer
were thinking to just create tasks for translating tutorials. We need
to have people who are fluent in the language to evaluate the task.
Apparently, the task should only be considered as completed if the
translation is perfect, i.e., from someone who is also fluent, to
avoid people using machine translations. What languages are people
fluent in, who are willing to evaluate translations tasks? Ondrej
speaks Czech and Mateusz speaks Polish.
Aaron Meurer
krastano...@gmail.com
About the translations - I speak Bulgarian and I can probably find few people willing to help with French translations.
Stefan Krastanov
Aaron Meurer
I have created labels in the issue tracker, CodeIn-Code,
CodeIn-Documentation, etc., and also CodeIn-Easy, CodeIn-Medium, and
CodeIn-Hard. If people can tag issues based on
http://code.google.com/p/google-code-in/wiki/GCIAdminMentorInformation
that would be good tasks, this would be great. We have to have at
least five tasks in each category to apply, and obviously we will need
many more if we are accepted. Also, we should create new issues for
various things. If you want to help but don't have the ability to add
labels to issues in the issue tracker, just let me know and I will
give you the access.
By the way, according to people here at the mentor summit who have
participated before, we should not underestimate what some of these
students can do. So don't be afraid to mark somewhat difficult tasks
for CodeIn.
Aaron Meurer
Joachim Durchholz
> Another thing: we need to have at least five translation tasks. We
> were thinking to just create tasks for translating tutorials. We need
> to have people who are fluent in the language to evaluate the task.
> Apparently, the task should only be considered as completed if the
> translation is perfect, i.e., from someone who is also fluent, to
> avoid people using machine translations. What languages are people
> fluent in, who are willing to evaluate translations tasks?
I can review English->German translations.
I did that professionally for a couple of years, so I know what to look for.
Regards,
Jo
Ondřej Čertík
Thanks. I can do Czech, and Mateusz can do Polish.
Ondrej
Chris Smith
> application we need to write how many mentors we have available.
>
Sounds like fun. I can help.
Vladimir Perić
> Great!
>
> I have created labels in the issue tracker, CodeIn-Code,
> CodeIn-Documentation, etc., and also CodeIn-Easy, CodeIn-Medium, and
> CodeIn-Hard. If people can tag issues based on
> http://code.google.com/p/google-code-in/wiki/GCIAdminMentorInformation
> that would be good tasks, this would be great. We have to have at
> least five tasks in each category to apply, and obviously we will need
> many more if we are accepted. Also, we should create new issues for
> various things. If you want to help but don't have the ability to add
> labels to issues in the issue tracker, just let me know and I will
> give you the access.
I also think the Code-In is a great idea (I wanted to comment sooner,
but just couldn't find the time). As I've spent a lot of time lately
looking at the various issues, I'll try as much as I can to tag them
appropriately (and add new issues, if required). It might be a good
idea to consider a more thorough cleaning of the issue list now, like
we've discussed before (Aaron). Closing old issues lowers cruft and
might inspire people to make some more Code-In tasks (was this called
GHOP before?).
>
> By the way, according to people here at the mentor summit who have
> participated before, we should not underestimate what some of these
> students can do. So don't be afraid to mark somewhat difficult tasks
> for CodeIn.
>
> Aaron Meurer
>
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 2:35 PM, krastano...@gmail.com
> <krastano...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I would also like to help. Hopefully I'll find the time.
>>
>> About the translations - I speak Bulgarian and I can probably find few
>> people willing to help with French translations.
>>
>> Stefan Krastanov
>>
>> On 23 October 2011 21:33, Aaron Meurer <asme...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Another thing: we need to have at least five translation tasks. We
>>> were thinking to just create tasks for translating tutorials. We need
>>> to have people who are fluent in the language to evaluate the task.
>>> Apparently, the task should only be considered as completed if the
>>> translation is perfect, i.e., from someone who is also fluent, to
>>> avoid people using machine translations. What languages are people
>>> fluent in, who are willing to evaluate translations tasks? Ondrej
>>> speaks Czech and Mateusz speaks Polish.
I speak Serbian (Bosnian/Croatian/Montenegrian etc) fluently and I can
help with Czech, too.
I'd also be willing to help with reviews and generally I plan to be
around on IRC (time-permitting). In particular I can be around for
US-centric holidays and Christmas (since our Christmas is on the 7th),
as that webpage you linked to recommends.
I also took a look at the categories of tasks we need to have, and I
think we are going to have troubles with some:
* Translation. Disregarding the fact that between all of us, we still
cover only a few languages, there's a question of _what_ to translate
exactly? I think translating the tutorial is fine, but getting people
to translate all our documentation would be a bit too much. I don't
think it would be used much, it'd almost definitely be outdated and
fact is, SymPy just doesn't depend so much on translations and as such
we have no framework around it. We can translate the SymPy Live UI at
least, though. I'm sure it's impossible but could we somehow waive
that requirement?
* Research. Seeing as we're talking about some pretty hardcore math
here, I doubt the average high school student will be able to
contribute. I'm sure we can scrounge up the 5/10 tasks required, but
it'll be a stretch.
There's also the question of how many new tasks do we wish to create?
Usually, we don't make tasks as such small "chunks" (eg. all the
Documentation tasks about See Also Hector made -- I like them though,
nothing against it) so I'm worried we might spam our issue tracker a
bit if we over do it (not that it doesn't have so many open issues
right now). Just something that crossed my mind...
>>>
>>> Aaron Meurer
>>>
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>>
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Vladimir Perić
Aaron Meurer
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 11:01 PM, Aaron Meurer <asme...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Great!
>>
>> I have created labels in the issue tracker, CodeIn-Code,
>> CodeIn-Documentation, etc., and also CodeIn-Easy, CodeIn-Medium, and
>> CodeIn-Hard. If people can tag issues based on
>> http://code.google.com/p/google-code-in/wiki/GCIAdminMentorInformation
>> that would be good tasks, this would be great. We have to have at
>> least five tasks in each category to apply, and obviously we will need
>> many more if we are accepted. Also, we should create new issues for
>> various things. If you want to help but don't have the ability to add
>> labels to issues in the issue tracker, just let me know and I will
>> give you the access.
>
> I also think the Code-In is a great idea (I wanted to comment sooner,
> but just couldn't find the time). As I've spent a lot of time lately
> looking at the various issues, I'll try as much as I can to tag them
> appropriately (and add new issues, if required). It might be a good
> idea to consider a more thorough cleaning of the issue list now, like
> we've discussed before (Aaron). Closing old issues lowers cruft and
> might inspire people to make some more Code-In tasks (was this called
> GHOP before?).
Yes, this used to be GHOP, though apparently various technicalities
have changed since then.
This is indeed the problem. That is why we decided to just have tasks
for translating the tutorial. The thing is, we have to have five
tasks for all eight categories. We had some discussion about this
with Carol and some other people with Code-In experience at the mentor
summit at a session about Code-In, and we decided that this was best.
If you can think of other good documents to translate, that would be
great, though I doubt that they will actually end up being kept up to
date after the program ends. But anyway, I think we have enough
languages to make five tasks for now.
>
> * Research. Seeing as we're talking about some pretty hardcore math
> here, I doubt the average high school student will be able to
> contribute. I'm sure we can scrounge up the 5/10 tasks required, but
> it'll be a stretch.
Apparently, we should not underestimate these students. For example,
sqrtdenest was implemented by a GHOP student. And quite a few high
school students know calculus and many know even more than that
(linear algebra, odes, etc.). So I think for this category we should
find the issues that we haven't solved simply because we don't know
the best way to proceed and make tasks for them. They can be large
scale (like the assumptions), or small scale (like maybe some
technicality in the core). The worst case scenario is that the
students won't be able to handle them and so they won't be taken, but
the best case scenario is that we get some genius who comes up with
some novel ideas on how to do things.
>
> There's also the question of how many new tasks do we wish to create?
> Usually, we don't make tasks as such small "chunks" (eg. all the
> Documentation tasks about See Also Hector made -- I like them though,
> nothing against it) so I'm worried we might spam our issue tracker a
> bit if we over do it (not that it doesn't have so many open issues
> right now). Just something that crossed my mind...
First off, don't worry about spamming the issue tracker.
Actually, what you can do is create a single issue for multiple tasks,
like I did for http://code.google.com/p/sympy/issues/detail?id=2766.
The tasks themselves go into the database in google-melange.com, but
we can run the actual review through our issue tracker/github pull
requests (Melange is just there to handle the details of the contest).
So issues like those will be split into multiple tasks in melange.
This also means that old issues don't really matter much for this,
though we did decide to create some dummy tasks like "Fix a
CodeIn-Easy issue in the issue tracker" so that we can add new issues
after the first pool is released (this was also a suggestion from the
mentor summit).
A couple more things:
Vladimir: some of those things that we discussed on IRC earlier about
gathering statistics about the issues and other various things would
make good tasks. I'm not entirely sure what category to put them
under right now, though.
Second, once we have at least five of each category, we need to
compile them into a wiki page, so we can put a link to it in our
application. The application is due November 1. Ondrej, Mateusz, and
I already wrote up the responses to the other questions at the summit,
so we just need that. (p.s., Ondrej, should we put that on the wiki
like we did for
https://github.com/sympy/sympy/wiki/GSoC-2010-Organization-Application
?)
Aaron Meurer
Aaron Meurer
Python Software Foundation, said that it will help our chances of
acceptance into the program if we create a bio page for our mentors.
He will also require this to work under the PSF if we do not get
accepted.
So I have started this at
https://github.com/sympy/sympy/wiki/GCI-2011-Mentors. Please add
yourself if you plan to help. The information that you provide there
is of course completely up to you. Arc recommended putting some basic
contact information, a picture, and a short bio. This will make it
feel more friendly to the GCI students. We also may want to create a
more extensive landing page introducing students to the program and to
SymPy if we get accepted.
Aaron Meurer
Aaron Meurer
should go on any issue which should become multiple Code-In tasks
(e.g., we have just one issue to translate the tutorial, but this
should become a task for each language).
This weekend, I will start a Google Docs spreadsheet for the tasks,
which we can then link to in our application. I was originally going
to do this on the wiki, but apparently it's easier to import the data
into melange if it's in a spreadsheet.
Aaron Meurer
Ondřej Čertík
[...]
>
> Second, once we have at least five of each category, we need to
> compile them into a wiki page, so we can put a link to it in our
> application. The application is due November 1. Ondrej, Mateusz, and
> I already wrote up the responses to the other questions at the summit,
> so we just need that. (p.s., Ondrej, should we put that on the wiki
> like we did for
> https://github.com/sympy/sympy/wiki/GSoC-2010-Organization-Application
> ?)
Here it is:
https://github.com/sympy/sympy/wiki/GCI-2011-Organization-Application
Anyone, feel free to edit/improve or send us comments/suggestions.
Ondrej
Aaron Meurer
Thanks Ondrej. If anyone wants to edit this, please do so this
weekend, as the application is due November 1.
Aaron Meurer
krastano...@gmail.com
Aaron Meurer
so that people here can review it and edit it. The final application
has to be submitted at http://www.google-melange.com/.
Aaron Meurer
Aaron Meurer
submitted what we have. I can still modify it up to the deadline, so
if you make any more changes, please notify me so that I can update it
at google-melange.com
We also added the tasks to the spreadsheet. I created a label in the
issue tracker, CodeInImportedIntoSpreadsheet, which should go on any
Code-In issue that is also in the spreadsheet. Please create more
Code-In issues, and I will go through before we put the tasks in
Melange and add any without that label to the spreadsheet.
And if anyone wants permission to edit the spreadsheet, just ping me.
Aaron Meurer
lira.lg
and of course I am a GSoC since 2007, this year for codehaus.
krastano...@gmail.com
but I can not edit the tags so it's not marked as GCI issue.
I want to help. The last year I was a GCI mentor for Haiku and Parrot
and of course I am a GSoC since 2007, this year for codehaus.
Aaron Meurer
able to add labels to issues now.
Aaron Meurer