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John Bohn  
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 More options Jun 9 2011, 10:22 am
From: John Bohn <jjb...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 09:22:38 -0500
Local: Thurs, Jun 9 2011 10:22 am
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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+1

On Jun 9, 2011, at 2:16 AM, Ricky <ricky.ya...@gmail.com> wrote:


 
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Luis Cordova  
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 More options Jun 9 2011, 4:53 pm
From: Luis Cordova <cordo...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 15:53:09 -0500
Local: Thurs, Jun 9 2011 4:53 pm
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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-1

2011/6/9 John Bohn <jjb...@gmail.com>:


 
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Tac Tacelosky  
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 More options Jun 9 2011, 5:02 pm
From: Tac Tacelosky <tac...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 17:02:25 -0400
Local: Thurs, Jun 9 2011 5:02 pm
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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Another +1.  The big advantage to a new group now, especially since the SF2
API has been finalized, is that you can expect the answers on that list to
reflect sf2.  So much stuff has changed that the 1.4 answers are often
unhelpful:  Bundles, the directory structure, etc.

Tac

2011/6/9 Luis Cordova <cordo...@gmail.com>


 
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Fabien Potencier  
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 More options Jun 10 2011, 1:24 am
From: Fabien Potencier <fabien.potenc...@symfony-project.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 07:24:19 +0200
Local: Fri, Jun 10 2011 1:24 am
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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On 6/9/11 10:17 PM, Chris Sedlmayr wrote:

> Hi all,

> I don't think we are against the idea of creating a Symfony2 specific
> group, but we must ensure that finding help in the right place is the
> main priority.

I'm against creating a Symfony2 specific group. If we were to create a
new group, then it would be a symfony-legacy group. Do we want to create
a ghetto?

Fabien


 
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Loļc Vernet  
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 More options Jun 10 2011, 5:54 am
From: Loļc Vernet <vernet.l...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 11:54:09 +0200
Local: Fri, Jun 10 2011 5:54 am
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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2011/6/10 Fabien Potencier <fabien.potenc...@symfony-project.com>

> On 6/9/11 10:17 PM, Chris Sedlmayr wrote:

>> Hi all,

>> I don't think we are against the idea of creating a Symfony2 specific
>> group, but we must ensure that finding help in the right place is the
>> main priority.

> I'm against creating a Symfony2 specific group. If we were to create a new
> group, then it would be a symfony-legacy group. Do we want to create a
> ghetto?

+1 for symfony-legacy.

The problem is essentially for symfony2 newcomers as when they will receive
an email, they will have to "guess" if it is related to symfony1 or
symfony2. It is obvious for someone already knowing symfony1 but not for
someone who only knows sf2.

Or a [sf1] or [sf2] string should always be included in the subjects of the
email...

COil


 
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Georg  
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 More options Jun 10 2011, 8:32 am
From: Georg <geor...@have2.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 14:32:40 +0200
Local: Fri, Jun 10 2011 8:32 am
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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Hello,

I am not yet using sf2.

I am quite frustrated with the mailing list ATM.

I used to read the mailing list along to help people when I knew
something, learned a few tricks from answers by others, and had a place
to get quick answers.

Now on most mails I don't even understand the subject, I don't bother to
find the mails where I could help, and i don't ask anymore, because
obviously most sf1 users act in the same way as I do.
Check how many sf1 questions were asked and answered 5 moth ago and now.
This could either mean that nobody is using sf1 any more (which I doubt)
or the list is not working for sf1 people any more (which is the case IMO).

[RANT]I wonder what are the things that are shared between symfony 1 and
symfony 2? That both are a PHP MVC framework and have the same name?
TO me this feels like if I had a single mailing list for Drupal and
Typo3, because both are PHP CMS[/RANT]

[RANT2]Check http://www.symfony-project.org/installation:
sf1.4 is the only stable symfony version ATM, and is supported until
november 2012. I strongly hope (even if I have a different feeling),
that at least until mid 2012, sf1 is not treated as legacy. There isn't
even an update possible, I am afraid that companies will rethink their
decision to develop in symfony if they are left standing in the rain.
(Yes, I know this mail
http://groups.google.com/group/symfony-devs/msg/f13ab956a61567cc by
fabien, let me quote:
[QUOTE]Keep in mind that symfony is an Open-Source project, so everybody
can contribute and scratch its itch. The core developers and all plugin
developers are all working for free. Of course, Sensio sponsors the
framework, of course it dedicates a lot of time and money to it, and of
it can even provide extended support for all versions for companies
willing to pay. And do you know how many companies, except Sensio
customers, signed up for extended support in the last 2 years? None!
Yep, that's right, not a single one. [/QUOTE]
[/RANT2]

That's why I would like to have symfony-users and syomfony2-users as
opposed to symfony-legacy-users.

As always, keep up the great work. And I will switch to sf2, when it is
stable (and probably has 1 as minor version number ;-) or when the
*symfony2-users* list doesn't complain too much). But I will be stuck
with sf1 for quite a long time with existing projects. And as pointed
out above, I don't feel they have a lot together.

Regards
Georg

Am 10.06.2011 07:24, schrieb Fabien Potencier:


 
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Jeremiah Dodds  
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 More options Jun 10 2011, 10:48 am
From: Jeremiah Dodds <jeremiah.do...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 10:48:08 -0400
Local: Fri, Jun 10 2011 10:48 am
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Chris Sedlmayr <ch...@sedlmayr.co.uk> wrote:
> I can't say that i've ever found groups to be an easy way to find
> information, and generally the posts I moderate seem to re-appear.
> People are struggling to find what they are looking for and I don't
> necessarily think that splitting it would help as we had the same
> problem pre Symfony2.

> I would be more inclined to concentrate on improving and adding to the
> Forum and slowly moving away from Groups.

> Not sure on other's thoughts here though.

I greatly prefer mailing lists to forums (not the biggest fan of google
groups, but hey), but what I really, really like is when communities'
mailing lists and forums are mirrors of each other.

http://mail2forum.com/ seems to be the canonical way to do this with phpbb
forums.

Ideally, I'd want to see symfony-legacy and  symfony mailing lists connected
with mail2forum or similar. Then everyone can stay current with everything
with their preferred interface, and the community doesn't get fragmented,
and most people don't know or care that that's even going on.  I don't see a
reason (other than setup overhead) to not represent the data from
conversations on the list in different frontends -- separation of concerns
and all that ;)


 
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Tac Tacelosky  
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 More options Jun 10 2011, 12:05 pm
From: Tac Tacelosky <tac...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 12:05:57 -0400
Local: Fri, Jun 10 2011 12:05 pm
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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I've been trying to go through "The Definite Guide to Symfony", an excellent
book for Symfony 1.x.    But Symfony 2 is a different product -- Doctrine 2
is much more powerful, but different, Twig is a great way to do view, and
Bundles are now first-class plugins, the concept of "application" and
"vendor" has changed a bit, although I'm still a bit confused, etc. etc.

But I don't think Symfony 1 should be called "legacy", just like a list of
flying prop planes shouldn't be "legacy" just because a there's now a jet
available that happens to also fly and use a lot of the same terminology and
instrumentation.

Symfony 2 is a different product.  That's why I think it should have its own
mailing list.  If a symfony 3 comes out that's as different as SF1 is from
SF2, then it, too, should have it's own list.  This isn't like going from
PHP 3 to 4 to 5, which were significant improvements, but largely
backwards-compatible.  It's a whole new framework.

And from what I can tell, it rocks.

Tac

2011/6/10 Georg <geor...@have2.com>

...

read more »


 
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Insight Media Tech  
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 More options Jun 13 2011, 9:47 am
From: Insight Media Tech <culori.me...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:47:43 +0300
Local: Mon, Jun 13 2011 9:47 am
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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Guess mail2forum would be an interesting alternative because as far as i
know there is already a plugin for phpbb3. I however agree that the
community should not be split, at least not by creating 2 mailing lists.
More than that, if fabien thinks that this is the best way, we should be
supportive about his decission.

2011/6/10 Jeremiah Dodds <jeremiah.do...@gmail.com>

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Web: www.insightmed.eu
Phone: +(40)741.017.049
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Luis Cordova  
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 More options Jun 15 2011, 12:55 pm
From: Luis Cordova <cordo...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 11:55:39 -0500
Local: Wed, Jun 15 2011 12:55 pm
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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+1 vote towards giving the sf1.x people another mailing list but NOT THIS ONE

we sf2 guys would like to keep this thank you!

On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:47 AM, Insight Media Tech


 
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Jeremiah Dodds  
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 More options Jun 15 2011, 1:19 pm
From: Jeremiah Dodds <jeremiah.do...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 13:19:45 -0400
Local: Wed, Jun 15 2011 1:19 pm
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Insight Media Tech
<culori.me...@gmail.com>wrote:

> . I however agree that the community should not be split, at least not by
> creating 2 mailing lists.

The issue with this is that there are two distinct communities -- sf1.x and
sf2, and the vast majority of the discussions going on, on whatever mediums,
are not applicable to both communities. This makes it more difficult for
everyone to find the information they are looking for, and to get
information to the people who need to see it.

If this was a case of "Symfony 1.x is being entirely superseded by Symfony
2, and all of you people need to move your stuff over", it would be one
thing. But it's not, even if migrating is encouraged.


 
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Fabien Potencier  
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 More options Jun 21 2011, 10:19 am
From: Fabien Potencier <fabien.potenc...@symfony-project.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 16:19:29 +0200
Local: Tues, Jun 21 2011 10:19 am
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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On 6/10/11 2:32 PM, Georg wrote:

Yes and no. They share the same philosophy but the implementation
details are different. The web evolves very fast and so the framework
should also evolve.

> [RANT2]Check http://www.symfony-project.org/installation:
> sf1.4 is the only stable symfony version ATM, and is supported until
> november 2012. I strongly hope (even if I have a different feeling),
> that at least until mid 2012, sf1 is not treated as legacy. There isn't
> even an update possible, I am afraid that companies will rethink their
> decision to develop in symfony if they are left standing in the rain.

symfony1 is very stable and the few pain points are not really fixable
without badly breaking BC. I review all the tickets and I've done some
bug fixes in the last few weeks on symfony 1.4. But frankly, there is
not a lot to do. Anyway, we are about to release a new version of
symfony 1.4 including these minor fixes.

I've been thinking about this mailing-list issue a lot during the last
few months and I'm still convinced that creating more mailing-lists is
not the right solution. Anyway, as many people think the contrary, here
is what I propose now:

We create two new mailing-lists: one for symfony1 and one for Symfony2.
To be clear, this mailing-list (symfony-users) will die. That way, there
is no "legacy" mailing-list, all symfony users will be treated the same
way: they will have to do something about their subscription.

If everybody agree, I will start the migration and send invitations for
all current subscribers.

Cheers,
Fabien

...

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Gustavo Adrian  
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 More options Jun 21 2011, 10:25 am
From: Gustavo Adrian <comfortablynum...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:25:09 -0300
Local: Tues, Jun 21 2011 10:25 am
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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+1

2011/6/21 Fabien Potencier <fabien.potenc...@symfony-project.com>

...

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Michel Salib  
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 More options Jun 21 2011, 10:49 am
From: Michel Salib <michelsa...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 07:49:50 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Tues, Jun 21 2011 10:49 am
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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@Fabien, as you said, I might not be the right solution, but I agree on our
proposal.


 
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Jeremiah Dodds  
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 More options Jun 21 2011, 10:58 am
From: Jeremiah Dodds <jeremiah.do...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:58:15 -0400
Local: Tues, Jun 21 2011 10:58 am
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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2011/6/21 Fabien Potencier <fabien.potenc...@symfony-project.com>

+ 1 . How do you feel about having the forums and mailing lists mirror each
other via mail2forum or similar?

 
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Luis Cordova  
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 More options Jun 21 2011, 11:49 am
From: Luis Cordova <cordo...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:49:01 -0500
Local: Tues, Jun 21 2011 11:49 am
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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don't fabien you will give more work to everybody
as you said the problem will be only for few more months
then sf1.x will die out and problem solved :)

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Jeremiah Dodds


 
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Stéphane Guidoin  
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 More options Jun 21 2011, 10:46 am
From: Stéphane Guidoin <stephane.guid...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:46:51 -0400
Local: Tues, Jun 21 2011 10:46 am
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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I agree with this proposition. I'm new on the mailing list, I use sf1.4
because some specific plugins do not exist on sf2 for now... but my mailbox
is completely overwhelmed by emails irrelevant for me.

I guess a number of people will continue to use sf1 until sf2 is stable and
presents the same level of plugins (or at least to migration their existing
production) and for those people it will be useful to have there mails not
lost in the middle of the sf2 question.

Steph

2011/6/21 Fabien Potencier <fabien.potenc...@symfony-project.com>

...

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Luis Cordova  
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 More options Jun 21 2011, 12:02 pm
From: Luis Cordova <cordo...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:02:44 -0500
Local: Tues, Jun 21 2011 12:02 pm
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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splitting is counterproductive, we can always hit delete
I myself hit a ton of deletes even with sf2 and I am for sf2, so i
think people is having too thin of a skin.

2011/6/21 Stéphane Guidoin <stephane.guid...@gmail.com>:

...

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Tac Tacelosky  
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 More options Jun 21 2011, 11:57 am
From: Tac Tacelosky <tac...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:57:54 -0400
Local: Tues, Jun 21 2011 11:57 am
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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I don't think SF1.x will die out -- it's a major commitment to move to sf2,
if an organization has an application built on sf1 and it's working, there's
not a compelling reason to rewrite it in SF2.  New projects, of course,
should be in sf2.

And that's the reason they should be on separate lists.

As SF2 RC1 is about to be released, this is the perfect time to move to a
new list.  The answers on that list are more likely to be "correct" to
anyone searching the archives (prior to the API being stable, an answer
could be correct one week and incorrect the next).

Tac


 
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Jeremiah Dodds  
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 More options Jun 21 2011, 1:50 pm
From: Jeremiah Dodds <jeremiah.do...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 13:50:32 -0400
Local: Tues, Jun 21 2011 1:50 pm
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Luis Cordova <cordo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> splitting is counterproductive, we can always hit delete
> I myself hit a ton of deletes even with sf2 and I am for sf2, so i
> think people is having too thin of a skin.

If you think the use of a 1.x branch of a popular web framework is going to
die out shortly after the release of a BC-breaking 2.0 branch that shares a
name, you are mistaken.

Splitting the lists is a one-time effort, with a slope of minor annoyances
for the users of it that trickles down to nil over the course of a few weeks
to a month. Not splitting the list means everyone only interested in 1.x or
2.x gets to sift through a bunch of noise, constantly.


 
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Rich Sage  
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 More options Jun 21 2011, 5:26 pm
From: Rich Sage <rich.s...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 22:26:34 +0100
Local: Tues, Jun 21 2011 5:26 pm
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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2011/6/21 Fabien Potencier <fabien.potenc...@symfony-project.com>

+1 from me.

--
Rich Sage
York, UK
rich.s...@gmail.com


 
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oscar balladares  
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 More options Jun 21 2011, 6:18 pm
From: oscar balladares <liebegr...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 16:18:53 -0600
Local: Tues, Jun 21 2011 6:18 pm
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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+1 For Fabien proposal (I would vote him for president of my nation if I
could).

Core developers, and Symfony Ninjas will still be able to suscribe to both
lists and feel in peace with themselves :P

Luis Cordoba: Very funny - muy gracioso :D S1 won't die as long as S1
projects owners/webmaster/programmers/designers get profits from them.

2011/6/21 Rich Sage <rich.s...@gmail.com>


 
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Fabien Potencier  
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 More options Jun 22 2011, 1:07 am
From: Fabien Potencier <fabien.potenc...@symfony-project.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 07:07:09 +0200
Local: Wed, Jun 22 2011 1:07 am
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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On 6/21/11 5:49 PM, Luis Cordova wrote:

> don't fabien you will give more work to everybody
> as you said the problem will be only for few more months
> then sf1.x will die out and problem solved :)

symfony1 is not going to die anytime soon. End of maintenance is end of
2012; and people will continue to use it even after that. So, "the end
of life" of symfony1 will probably be in 2015-2020, not sooner. At
Sensio, we still have symfony 1.0 applications that won't be migrated to
1.4 for instance. And that's fine.

Fabien


 
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Marcelo Prizmic  
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 More options Jun 21 2011, 3:03 pm
From: Marcelo Prizmic <mpriz...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 16:03:25 -0300
Local: Tues, Jun 21 2011 3:03 pm
Subject: Re: [symfony-users] Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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+1 split

2011/6/21 Jeremiah Dodds <jeremiah.do...@gmail.com>


 
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Andras  
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 More options Jun 22 2011, 3:57 am
From: Andras <are...@epiac.hu>
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 00:57:40 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Jun 22 2011 3:57 am
Subject: Re: Any chance of creating a new Google group for Symfony2 only?
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+1

On jśn. 22, 07:07, Fabien Potencier <fabien.potenc...@symfony-


 
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