I need wires

[Szukács Judit]

Hi guys,

I am going to need the following materials on Saturday for a couple of hours:

0.9 m unbendable 4 mm or 5 mm rod; 

1.45 m and 2 x 2.70 m bendable 2 mm wire;

2 electrical wire connectors

Do we have anything in the space I can borrow?

Judit

[ada]

On May 20, 7:46 pm, Szukács Judit <szju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 0.9 m unbendable 4 mm or 5 mm rod;

Unbendable is a pretty tough ask. You're looking at essentially
unaffordable.

> 1.45 m and 2 x 2.70 m bendable 2 mm wire;

Do you have a preference for material?

> 2 electrical wire connectors

lots of connectors, depending on what you want.

[Tim]

Nonsense, it's on the shelf labeled unpossible items, between the uncrashable car and the unsinkable boat :)

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Robots & Dinosaurs" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sydney-hackspa...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sydney-h...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sydney-hackspace?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

[Andrew]

The closest I could come up with is some 5mm silver steel rod.

 

See http://www.familyland.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=11865

and also  http://www.pretooling.com.au/products/silver-steel-size-listing.html

 

Judit - what do you mean by "unbendable"?

 

Is this "cannot easily be bent permanently out of shape", or "might bow a bit under strain but will return to its original shape".

 

If you actually meant "will remain arrow-straight under all imaginable and unimaginable forces", then you need to look on the aforementioned shelf.

 

Silver steel may need to be hardened to achieve your objective.  It may then become brittle (snaps catastrophically rather than bend).

 

The larger diameter, the more rigid the rod.

[Tim]

Music wire is also good, and dirt cheap from hobby stores.

[Szukács Judit]

Thanks guys!

Unbendable = not that bendable. 

I don't have any preferences as for material.

I need to stretch fabric so it needs to be relatively small in diameter.

Music wires? From Spotlight?

And all together: where would you buy this kind of wires? I am familiar with Spotlight and Bunnings only. And jaycar. I dont think they have wires, do they? 

[Angus Turner]

For the bendable wire you're probably looking at fencing wire, which is available from bunnings. Not too sure about the steel rod though

Thanks
Angus Turner
angus...@gmail.com

[Franc Carter]

Could you laser cut something to stretch the fabric across?

[Matt Callow]

Most model shops will probably sell it.

For example Hobbyco:

https://hobbyco.com.au/product-taxonomy/ks-metal?page=7

Matt

[Jake Anderson]

In terms of stiffness 5mm borosilicate glass rod will probably win.
http://www.affordableinspiration.com.au/borosilicate-glass/simax-clear-borosillicate-33-coe-glass-rods/rods-en-2-3.html

I have some 6mm somewhere I think. It wont bend "much"

[ada]

On May 21, 12:49 pm, Jake Anderson <groov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In terms of stiffness 5mm borosilicate glass rod will probably win.http://www.affordableinspiration.com.au/borosilicate-glass/simax-clea...

The odds of borosilicate glass rod, 5mm diameter, 0.9m long, not
*breaking* are essentially zero.

The best thing I can think of is CF rod from a kite shop.

We have fencing wire of various diameter on the shelf.

[Julian Sortland]

Copper and Brass out at Seven Hills had some pretty stiff brazing rod, or similar material in these sort of dimensions.
73,
Julian VK2YJS / AG6LE.

[Max Nippard]

Clip clop clip clop..
That sounds like a Zebra!

I love the range of materials in this list. :-)

[Szukács Judit]

Max, you are waiting for the unbendable wire to turn up, right?

[ada]

On May 21, 8:13 am, "Andrew" <andr...@arcadius.com.au> wrote:
> Silver steel may need to be hardened to achieve your objective.  It may then
> become brittle (snaps catastrophically rather than bend).

Hardening doesn't increase Young's modulus appreciably.

[Jake Anderson]

CF is strong for weight, not for size
hardened tool steel will be stiffer.
You might look at hardened chromed bar, also used in gas lift struts
(the better ones)

There was no mention of how much load was to be applied, hence the glass.
I make axles out of the stuff, its surprisingly tough.

[Tim]

You guys need to all calm down.

It's to hold up a simple crocheted woolen circle.

Seriously. You all get too excited :)

Tim.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Robots & Dinosaurs" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sydney-hackspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sydney-hackspace@googlegroups.com.

[Kean Maizels]

Which is why this list is great.  If you can avoid taking stuff personally…

 

Oh and look who’s talking about getting too excited :-)

 

From: sydney-h...@googlegroups.com [mailto:sydney-h...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Sent: Tuesday, 21 May 2013 11:41 PM
To: sydney-h...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RnD] Re: I need wires

 

You guys need to all calm down.

It's to hold up a simple crocheted woolen circle.

Seriously. You all get too excited :)

Tim.

On 21/05/2013 11:21 PM, "Jake Anderson" <groo...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 21/05/13 14:58, ada wrote:

On May 21, 12:49 pm, Jake Anderson <groov...@gmail.com> wrote:

In terms of stiffness 5mm borosilicate glass rod will probably win.http://www.affordableinspiration.com.au/borosilicate-glass/simax-clea...

The odds of borosilicate glass rod, 5mm diameter, 0.9m long, not
*breaking* are essentially zero.

The best thing I can think of is CF rod from a kite shop.

We have fencing wire of various diameter on the shelf.

CF is strong for weight, not for size
hardened tool steel will be stiffer.
You might look at hardened chromed bar, also used in gas lift struts (the better ones)

There was no mention of how much load was to be applied, hence the glass.
I make axles out of the stuff, its surprisingly tough.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Robots & Dinosaurs" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sydney-hackspa...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sydney-h...@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sydney-hackspace?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Robots & Dinosaurs" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sydney-hackspa...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sydney-h...@googlegroups.com.

[Lilly Apidastra]

There's always A&E Metal Merchants or the House of Jewelery in the CBD. They have delicious things that I've not seen anywhere else.

Wire or rods of various sizes, (considering stainless steel, unbreakable to certain values) Modest Sheets of Metal*, jewelery-polishing, finishing or otherwise related compounds that I've not seen anywhere else.

Worth a look, if only to add to our list for Santa.

You never know what you'll find a use for, once you know it exists!

Regards,

Lil' Jess.

*A sheet metal workshop or scrap merchant may also have some interesting pieces...

Even unbend and harden a salvaged spring from a car... How are our Blacksmithing facilites and nous?

[Tim]

pfft, me? Excited?!? 'sif... :D

So we made an excursion to Hobbyco to look at music wire yesterday and they were all out.

Does anyone know of another supplier?

Tim.

[Szukács Judit]

"It's to hold up a simple crocheted woolen circle."

Really, cooltim? Really? I am deeply offended. Trust me, it is not simple. 

Thanks for the ideas everyone.

[Kris]

I can recommend those shops too.
Amazing stuff. Hidden away up on the first floor yes?

--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[Szukács Judit]

Not in HobbyCo, not in House of Jewellery. :/

[Andrew]

Judit, if you called "Family Land" @ Chester Hill, they could maybe get a rod in the post today and you would have it tomorrow or Friday.

 

http://www.familyland.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=11865

 

Won't hurt to ask...

 

Andrew

[Szukács Judit]

I might have the solution: http://www.amazon.com/Household-Essentials-Pop-Up-Hamper-Black/dp/B0007CXQQ6/ref=lp_695489011_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1369358100&sr=1-13

[ada]

On May 21, 11:21 pm, Jake Anderson <groov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> CF is strong for weight, not for size
> hardened tool steel will be stiffer.

stiffer than what?

where is the weight term in young's modulus?[1]

> You might look at hardened chromed bar, also used in gas lift struts
> (the better ones)

what does hardening do to young's modulus?

> There was no mention of how much load was to be applied, hence the glass.

what's the young's modulus of simax glass?

> I make axles out of the stuff, its surprisingly tough.

what's the UTS of simax glass? how much weight can you put in the
middle of a 900mm piece of 5mm glass before it snaps?

I would be very surprised if you made 900mm axles out of 5mm glass.

a little intellectual rigour would be nice, you know. might be too
much to expect around here.

[1] I know that a strict dimensional analysis does have a mass term
but that goes into the applied force.

[Jake Anderson]

On 25/05/13 01:09, ada wrote:
>
> On May 21, 11:21 pm, Jake Anderson <groov...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> CF is strong for weight, not for size
>> hardened tool steel will be stiffer.
> stiffer than what?
>
> where is the weight term in young's modulus?[1]

Stiffer than CF.

People often refer to CF has having exceptional stiffness, and it does
for its weight.
For its volume however its not so great.

As you are so keen on modulus, Carbon fiber reinforced plastic (70/30
fibre/matrix, unidirectional, along grain,best case scenario) modulus of 181
Steel 200

>
>> You might look at hardened chromed bar, also used in gas lift struts
>> (the better ones)
> what does hardening do to young's modulus?

nothing
however its not the be all and end all.
Heat treatment will raise the tensile strength of the material allowing
it to take a higher load before "bending" (plastic deformation).
Also if you fully hardened a bar (rather than case hardening) it will
snap before "bending" hence "unbendable" which was the requirement of
the OP.
The suggestion to use the hardened chromed bar was predominantly because
that�s what's available with decent QC and heat treatment, most decent
gas struts are made of the stuff for a reason. If they could get away
with mild they would.

>
>> There was no mention of how much load was to be applied, hence the glass.
> what's the young's modulus of simax glass?

I don't know off hand, probably less than that of steel.
But it wont "bend" much before it breaks.

>
>> I make axles out of the stuff, its surprisingly tough.
> what's the UTS of simax glass? how much weight can you put in the
> middle of a 900mm piece of 5mm glass before it snaps?
>
> I would be very surprised if you made 900mm axles out of 5mm glass.

My axles weren't 900mm long, around 100mm, with a 2kg or so weight
swinging off them.
They didn't bend much however.

>
> a little intellectual rigour would be nice, you know. might be too
> much to expect around here.

Perhaps if you were after "rigour" you might direct your indignation at
the OP, asking for "unbendable wire"
One might even think that the suggestion of glass might be a subtle hint
to the OP that they may wish to give slightly more detail in their question.

[Szukács Judit]

Come on! Be realistic! I quoted from a mathematical paper. 

http://www.enm.bris.ac.uk/anm/preprints/2004r03.pdf   page 22

A team of engineers were required to measure the height of a flag pole. They only had a measuring tape, and were getting quite frustrated trying to keep the tape along the pole. It kept falling down, etc. A mathematician comes along, finds out their problem, and proceeds to remove the pole from the ground and measure it easily. When he leaves, one engineer says to the other: "Just like a mathematician! We need to know the height, and he gives us the length!"

On 26 May 2013 01:43, Jake Anderson <groo...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 25/05/13 01:09, ada wrote:

On May 21, 11:21 pm, Jake Anderson <groov...@gmail.com> wrote:

CF is strong for weight, not for size
hardened tool steel will be stiffer.

stiffer than what?

where is the weight term in young's modulus?[1]

Stiffer than CF.

People often refer to CF has having exceptional stiffness, and it does for its weight.
For its volume however its not so great.

As you are so keen on modulus, Carbon fiber reinforced plastic (70/30 fibre/matrix, unidirectional, along grain,best case scenario) modulus of 181
Steel 200

You might look at hardened chromed bar, also used in gas lift struts
(the better ones)

what does hardening do to young's modulus?

nothing
however its not the be all and end all.
Heat treatment will raise the tensile strength of the material allowing it to take a higher load before "bending" (plastic deformation).
Also if you fully hardened a bar (rather than case hardening) it will snap before "bending" hence "unbendable" which was the requirement of the OP.

The suggestion to use the hardened chromed bar was predominantly because that’s what's available with decent QC and heat treatment, most decent gas struts are made of the stuff for a reason. If they could get away with mild they would.

There was no mention of how much load was to be applied, hence the glass.

what's the young's modulus of simax glass?

I don't know off hand, probably less than that of steel.
But it wont "bend" much before it breaks.

I make axles out of the stuff, its surprisingly tough.

what's the UTS of simax glass?  how much weight can you put in the
middle of a 900mm piece of 5mm glass before it snaps?

I would be very surprised if you made 900mm axles out of 5mm glass.

My axles weren't 900mm long, around 100mm, with a 2kg or so weight swinging off them.
They didn't bend much however.

a little intellectual rigour would be nice, you know.  might be too
much to expect around here.

Perhaps if you were after "rigour" you might direct your indignation at the OP, asking for "unbendable wire"
One might even think that the suggestion of glass might be a subtle hint to the OP that they may wish to give slightly more detail in their question.

[1] I know that a strict dimensional analysis does have a mass term
but that goes into the applied force.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Robots & Dinosaurs" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sydney-hackspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sydney-hackspace@googlegroups.com.

[reyn...@gmail.com]

Next project?

http://blog.makezine.com/2010/08/22/math-monday-mathematical-crochet/

(Also, bother, I left the pattern book behind. OK if I pick it up in June?)

Gillian
Who had such a COOL TIME on Saturday!

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sydney-hackspa...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sydney-h...@googlegroups.com.

[Max Nippard]

I can post the book if it helps.

[Szukács Judit]

I don't need anymore projects! I have a long list already. Projects and me, we are in a love/hate relationship. 

Do you know this site?

 Mathematics through knitting and crochet: http://www.woollythoughts.com/index.html

I found the book back on my shelf this morning, was surprised myself. 

[reyn...@gmail.com]

Max - thanks, but happy to wait for it. I have too much of my own on right now...

Judit - you know, what I just said to Max works as an answer too :-)

[ada]

On May 26, 1:43 am, Jake Anderson <groov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> People often refer to CF has having exceptional stiffness, and it does
> for its weight.
> For its volume however its not so great.
> As you are so keen on modulus, Carbon fiber reinforced plastic (70/30
> fibre/matrix, unidirectional, along grain,best case scenario) modulus of 181
> Steel 200

10%.

on the other hand that glass you're so fond of has a Young's modulus
of 63 GPa, or 1/3 that of CF/steel.

> Heat treatment will raise the tensile strength of the material allowing
> it to take a higher load before "bending" (plastic deformation).

Are you seriously going to claim that elastic deformation isn't
bending?

> The suggestion to use the hardened chromed bar was predominantly because

> that s what's available with decent QC and heat treatment, most decent

> gas struts are made of the stuff for a reason. If they could get away
> with mild they would.

in 5mm?

> > what's the young's modulus of simax glass?
> I don't know off hand, probably less than that of steel.
> But it wont "bend" much before it breaks.

I posit to you that a broken rod is less useful than an elastically
deformed rod.

> > I would be very surprised if you made 900mm axles out of 5mm glass.
> My axles weren't 900mm long, around 100mm, with a 2kg or so weight
> swinging off them.
> They didn't bend much however.

so why didn't you use chromed steel gas struts?

> Perhaps if you were after "rigour" you might direct your indignation at
> the OP, asking for "unbendable wire"

we already did that! first three posts to this thread.

it's more the random tossing out of ideas without thinking that seems
to be the hallmark of this mailing list that referring to.

rationality - it's a powerful thing, you know.

[Terry Dawson]

On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:20 PM, ada <a...@panda2.net> wrote:

rationality - it's a powerful thing, you know.

So is creativity. Rationality and creativity aren't always comfortable partners.

Terry