Hey all, I'm thinking about removing my airbox and putting K&N individual filters on each throttle body. My thoughts: I want to make room for a hi/lo horn pair (I will be heard!), I want a little induction noise, I think it will save me a few ounces, and I like a little daylight around the motor. I remember someone saying you need the airbox to keep induction temps low - will it really make that much of a difference. My bike is a 2006 so it has fuel injection. I live in Tampa and use the bike for most of my daily transportation and do a trip to St. Louis and back each summer. I put about 11k miles each year. I plan on putting on an FMF exhaust in a few months. Your thoughts? mccorpsman
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A couple racers I know claim most bikes develop more power actually with an air box (sometimes stock boxed need to be opened up) bcause they provide a source of still or stable air. Especially at low speed where the engine is not pulling high volumes of air through the direct pods the air box helps provides initial unrestricted air. (already through the filter) The air box also draws air through a cleaner route (under seat or behind side plates) and pods tend to get dirty very quickly then become restrictive. All that said, they are used frequently in road racing where the enviroment is pretty clean and rpms constantly high. There is also opinions that the aerodynamics also effects pods more because the air entering is unstable (pressure varies) versus air boxes with give the incoming air a chance to become stable. If you look closely at current factory race bikes dirt or road race they all have air boxes. On a street bike rain can also be a problem soaking and clogging pods. I would modify the stock air box before using pods.
--- steven michaeli <stevenmicha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hey all, I'm thinking about removing my airbox and > putting K&N individual filters on each throttle > body. My thoughts: I want to make room for a hi/lo > horn pair (I will be heard!), I want a little > induction noise, I think it will save me a few > ounces, and I like a little daylight around the > motor. > I remember someone saying you need the airbox to > keep induction temps low - will it really make that > much of a difference. My bike is a 2006 so it has > fuel injection. I live in Tampa and use the bike for > most of my daily transportation and do a trip to St. > Louis and back each summer. I put about 11k miles > each year. I plan on putting on an FMF exhaust in a > few months. > Your thoughts? > mccorpsman
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For very little cost you can remove the stock SV650 snorkle and replace it with one from an SV1000. It allows about 2.5 times the air flow since it is the same size as the opening in the air box when the smaller snorkle has been removed. It fits perfectly in the air box opening and down the existing space that the stock snorkle 90's down. After all it's made for this bike (well almost this bike). I use one in combination with a stock air filter, power commander and a full Yoshimura race exhaust. I picked it up at the local bike recycle center (wrecker's) for ten bucks a few years back. If you can't find one there or ebay then you could probably get a new one from a dealer.....for more money of course. :)> Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 06:54:18 -0800> From: mtucker...@yahoo.com> Subject: [SV/DL Riders] Re: Air box removal.> To: sv-dl-riders@googlegroups.com> > > A couple racers I know claim most bikes develop more> power actually with an air box (sometimes stock boxed> need to be opened up) bcause they provide a source of> still or stable air. Especially at low speed where the> engine is not pulling high volumes of air through the> direct pods the air box helps provides initial> unrestricted air. (already through the filter) The air> box also draws air through a cleaner route (under seat> or behind side plates) and pods tend to get dirty very> quickly then become restrictive. All that said, they> are used frequently in road racing where the> enviroment is pretty clean and rpms constantly high.> There is also opinions that the aerodynamics also> effects pods more because the air entering is unstable> (pressure varies) versus air boxes with give the> incoming air a chance to become stable. If you look> closely at current factory race bikes dirt or road> race they all have air boxes. On a street bike rain> can also be a problem soaking and clogging pods. I> would modify the stock air box before using pods. > > --- steven michaeli <stevenmicha...@yahoo.com> wrote:> > > Hey all, I'm thinking about removing my airbox and> > putting K&N individual filters on each throttle> > body. My thoughts: I want to make room for a hi/lo> > horn pair (I will be heard!), I want a little> > induction noise, I think it will save me a few> > ounces, and I like a little daylight around the> > motor.> > I remember someone saying you need the airbox to> > keep induction temps low - will it really make that> > much of a difference. My bike is a 2006 so it has> > fuel injection. I live in Tampa and use the bike for> > most of my daily transportation and do a trip to St.> > Louis and back each summer. I put about 11k miles> > each year. I plan on putting on an FMF exhaust in a> > few months.> > Your thoughts?> > mccorpsman> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them> > fast with Yahoo! Search.> >> > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ _________> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > _________________________________________________________________ Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon! http://puzzles.sympatico.msn.ca/chicktionary/index.html?icid=htmlsig
> Jim Stewart wrote: > The prewired headlight relay is a good kit. I'd wire my own for 1/3 the price, > but the kit is a much easier way to go.
Yeah, I wire all my own stuff too. I like those small relays though, I haven't seen them in the local auto stores here. Also those H4 male and female sockets are nice and I haven't seen them locally either. Saves people from cutting into their wiring harnesses. I've already cut into mine for a Signal Dynamics modulator so it wouldn't save me anything, but if I'd known about those sockets, I would've used them instead of cutting the wires.
My battery died a couple of days ago. I accidentally turned on the infamous parking light and didn't notice it for a long time. I charged the battery back up and it holds a 12.8V charge but it fails under any load at all, it must have an internal short now. So, I looked around and ended up getting another one from Batteries Plus again, same as 3 years ago. Their price went up from $42 or so to $65, sheesh. He gave it to me for $55, so they are negotiable I guess. I noticed that walmart carries motorcycle batteries now and has the ones for the second gen SV but not the first. Only $50 too. I saw some E.B.C. SV batteries on ebay for $44 shipped from a seller with a lot of good feedback, but I didn't try them. I like to put a voltmeter on the battery before I buy it, unless it ships with separate acid packs like the Yuasa.
Steve Aronson wrote: > My battery died a couple of days ago. I accidentally turned on the infamous > parking light and didn't notice it for a long time.
That's why I bypassed the parking light position on my bike. I can live without a parking light...
> > My battery died a couple of days ago. I accidentally turned on the infamous > > parking light and didn't notice it for a long time.
> That's why I bypassed the parking light position on my bike. I can live without > a parking light...
Even worse, my accessory relay trips from the tail light/ parking light circuit, so my heated grips were on high the whole time the bike was parked too. That wouldn't have ordinarily happened except for that rare cold snap we had that night.
I recommend that you leave it alone, but I don't think that induction
temps are a concern.
There are waves of energy that get pushed back into the airbox.
Airboxes are sized so that certain frequencies of waves (the ones that
are causing problems on the dyno) cancel themselves out: the high
energy meets the low energy causing interference: just like noise
cancelling headphones. This cancelation stabilizes the air, stable
air isn't being pushed out, so more air gets into the engine. These
waves of energy are also what causes induction noise, but the airbox
design is actually meant to improve performance where the waves would
hurt it; the quiter noise is just a side effect.
So what do individual filters do? They also cancel out waves at
frequencies that have a wavelength of 2X the distance between the
walls in the throttle body, unfortunately that screws up the bike's
torque and HP curves. The throttle bodies are small, so the engine
works more efficiently at extremely high RPMs (higher frequencies have
shorter wavelengths, natch), but worse at other RPM's (that flat spot
that Jim Stewart brought up is caused by this). These filters helped
racers on old race bikes, because those racers were keeping the engine
at relatively high RPMs. Those engines also died a lot.
The SV1000 snorkle is tuned to the SV1000's needs. A larger snorkle
doesn't necessarilly let in more air: it does this same cancellation
thing at different frequencies (my guess is at wavelengths 2X the
width of the snorkle, as well as the frequencies that are twice the
distances between the parrellel walls of the airbox) So I wouldn't
use that either.
This is also why ram air isn't on every vehicle. Ram air is dirt
cheep, so it would be on every vehicle if it always helped, but its
only useful when it's tuned (like a musical instrument) to the
frequencies that keep the air out. The "big funnel effect" only goes
so far.
If you want to change the use of your bike from what the engineers
were thinking (such as a show bike, or a racer that no longer rides on
the street) and you have a lot of dyno time then you might be able to
improve performance, but I would keep this part of the bike the same
otherwise.
This begs the question: if the airbox design is so great then why are
things like the suspension not? Well, better suspensions cost more
money, but airboxes are dirt cheep, in the case of my wife's bike its
just a $0 indentation in the bottom of her gas tank.
I have to go with Paul on this one. Finite wave amplitude analysis is a very complicated concept that is difficult for the garage builder (ie us) to mess with and actually come out ahead on power. I briefly scratched the surface when I was researching exhaust headers for my brother's drag car before I realized I had the wrong degree and called an expert. It's way more than "short headers for high end, long tubes for torque." If I dug around, I could find the formulas for optimum intake air speed and plenum size, but they are in a box in a book somewhere in my garage. You could probably play with this somewhat and fine tune your combination to your exact power band, but we a talking about a hp or two in our application, and it's just not worth the effort.
Danger is my middle name <p...@kile-family.org> wrote: Steven,
I recommend that you leave it alone, but I don't think that induction temps are a concern.
There are waves of energy that get pushed back into the airbox. Airboxes are sized so that certain frequencies of waves (the ones that are causing problems on the dyno) cancel themselves out: the high energy meets the low energy causing interference: just like noise cancelling headphones. This cancelation stabilizes the air, stable air isn't being pushed out, so more air gets into the engine. These waves of energy are also what causes induction noise, but the airbox design is actually meant to improve performance where the waves would hurt it; the quiter noise is just a side effect.
So what do individual filters do? They also cancel out waves at frequencies that have a wavelength of 2X the distance between the walls in the throttle body, unfortunately that screws up the bike's torque and HP curves. The throttle bodies are small, so the engine works more efficiently at extremely high RPMs (higher frequencies have shorter wavelengths, natch), but worse at other RPM's (that flat spot that Jim Stewart brought up is caused by this). These filters helped racers on old race bikes, because those racers were keeping the engine at relatively high RPMs. Those engines also died a lot.
The SV1000 snorkle is tuned to the SV1000's needs. A larger snorkle doesn't necessarilly let in more air: it does this same cancellation thing at different frequencies (my guess is at wavelengths 2X the width of the snorkle, as well as the frequencies that are twice the distances between the parrellel walls of the airbox) So I wouldn't use that either.
This is also why ram air isn't on every vehicle. Ram air is dirt cheep, so it would be on every vehicle if it always helped, but its only useful when it's tuned (like a musical instrument) to the frequencies that keep the air out. The "big funnel effect" only goes so far.
If you want to change the use of your bike from what the engineers were thinking (such as a show bike, or a racer that no longer rides on the street) and you have a lot of dyno time then you might be able to improve performance, but I would keep this part of the bike the same otherwise.
This begs the question: if the airbox design is so great then why are things like the suspension not? Well, better suspensions cost more money, but airboxes are dirt cheep, in the case of my wife's bike its just a $0 indentation in the bottom of her gas tank.
I'd like to thank everyone for their input; I thought life would be easier since the EPA made me switch to 4-strokes, oh contrare mon frier. I'll have to find another place to put my twim trumpet horns. mccorpsman
I have to go with Paul on this one. Finite wave amplitude analysis is a very complicated concept that is difficult for the garage builder (ie us) to mess with and actually come out ahead on power. I briefly scratched the surface when I was researching exhaust headers for my brother's drag car before I realized I had the wrong degree and called an expert. It's way more than "short headers for high end, long tubes for torque." If I dug around, I could find the formulas for optimum intake air speed and plenum size, but they are in a box in a book somewhere in my garage. You could probably play with this somewhat and fine tune your combination to your exact power band, but we a talking about a hp or two in our application, and it's just not worth the effort.
Danger is my middle name <p...@kile-family.org> wrote: Steven,
I recommend that you leave it alone, but I don't think that induction temps are a concern.
There are waves of energy that get pushed back into the airbox. Airboxes are sized so that certain frequencies of waves (the ones that are causing problems on the dyno) cancel themselves out: the high energy meets the low energy causing interference: just like noise cancelling headphones. This cancelation stabilizes the air, stable air isn't being pushed out, so more air gets into the engine. These waves of energy are also what causes induction noise, but the airbox design is actually meant to improve performance where the waves would hurt it; the quiter noise is just a side effect.
So what do individual filters do? They also cancel out waves at frequencies that have a wavelength of 2X the distance between the walls in the throttle body, unfortunately that screws up the bike's torque and HP curves. The throttle bodies are small, so the engine works more efficiently at extremely high RPMs (higher frequencies have shorter wavelengths, natch), but worse at other RPM's (that flat spot that Jim Stewart brought up is caused by this). These filters helped racers on old race bikes, because those racers were keeping the engine at relatively high RPMs. Those engines also died a lot.
The SV1000 snorkle is tuned to the SV1000's needs. A larger snorkle doesn't necessarilly let in more air: it does this same cancellation thing at different frequencies (my guess is at wavelengths 2X the width of the snorkle, as well as the frequencies that are twice the distances between the parrellel walls of the airbox) So I wouldn't use that either.
This is also why ram air isn't on every vehicle. Ram air is dirt cheep, so it would be on every vehicle if it always helped, but its only useful when it's tuned (like a musical instrument) to the frequencies that keep the air out. The "big funnel effect" only goes so far.
If you want to change the use of your bike from what the engineers were thinking (such as a show bike, or a racer that no longer rides on the street) and you have a lot of dyno time then you might be able to improve performance, but I would keep this part of the bike the same otherwise.
This begs the question: if the airbox design is so great then why are things like the suspension not? Well, better suspensions cost more money, but airboxes are dirt cheep, in the case of my wife's bike its just a $0 indentation in the bottom of her gas tank.
> I'd like to thank everyone for their input; I > thought life would be easier since the EPA made me > switch to 4-strokes, oh contrare mon frier. I'll > have to find another place to put my twim trumpet > horns. > mccorpsman
> Rick Cone <uglydo...@yahoo.com> wrote: > I have to go with Paul on this one. Finite wave > amplitude analysis is a very complicated concept > that is difficult for the garage builder (ie us) to > mess with and actually come out ahead on power. I > briefly scratched the surface when I was researching > exhaust headers for my brother's drag car before I > realized I had the wrong degree and called an > expert. It's way more than "short headers for high > end, long tubes for torque." If I dug around, I > could find the formulas for optimum intake air speed > and plenum size, but they are in a box in a book > somewhere in my garage. You could probably play > with this somewhat and fine tune your combination to > your exact power band, but we a talking about a hp > or two in our application, and it's just not worth > the effort.
> Danger is my middle name <p...@kile-family.org> > wrote: > Steven,
> I recommend that you leave it alone, but I don't > think that induction > temps are a concern.
> There are waves of energy that get pushed back into > the airbox. > Airboxes are sized so that certain frequencies of > waves (the ones that > are causing problems on the dyno) cancel themselves > out: the high > energy meets the low energy causing interference: > just like noise > cancelling headphones. This cancelation stabilizes > the air, stable > air isn't being pushed out, so more air gets into > the engine. These > waves of energy are also what causes induction > noise, but the airbox > design is actually meant to improve performance > where the waves would > hurt it; the quiter noise is just a side effect.
> So what do individual filters do? They also cancel > out waves at > frequencies that have a wavelength of 2X the > distance between the > walls in the throttle body, unfortunately that > screws up the bike's > torque and HP curves. The throttle bodies are small, > so the engine > works more efficiently at extremely high RPMs > (higher frequencies have > shorter wavelengths, natch), but worse at other > RPM's (that flat spot > that Jim Stewart brought up is caused by this). > These filters helped > racers on old race bikes, because those racers were > keeping the engine > at relatively high RPMs. Those engines also died a > lot.
> The SV1000 snorkle is tuned to the SV1000's needs. A > larger snorkle > doesn't necessarilly let in more air: it does this > same cancellation > thing at different frequencies (my guess is at > wavelengths 2X the > width of the snorkle, as well as the frequencies > that are twice the > distances between the parrellel walls of the airbox) > So I wouldn't > use that either.
> This is also why ram air isn't on every vehicle. Ram > air is dirt > cheep, so it would be on every vehicle if it always > helped, but its > only useful when it's tuned (like a musical > instrument) to the > frequencies that keep the air out. The "big funnel > effect" only goes > so far.
> If you want to change the use of your bike from what > the engineers > were thinking (such as a show bike, or a racer that > no longer rides on > the street) and you have a lot of dyno time then you > might be able to > improve performance, but I would keep this part of > the bike the same > otherwise.
> This begs the question: if the airbox design is so > great then why are > things like the suspension not? Well, better > suspensions cost more > money, but airboxes are dirt cheep, in the case of > my wife's bike its > just a $0 indentation in the bottom of her gas tank.
