Convert SACD ISO to individual DSD tracks?

[Noreltny-gmail]

I have a few SACD ISO that play in foobar2000 and I would like to convert them to individual tracks, preferably DSD files. Both my favorite players J.River Media Center v17 and foobar2000 can play DSD files.

 

I usually use foobar to convert ISOs to individual tracks. With DVD-A ISO, I use foobar’s convert tool to losslessly convert the MLP to FLAC.  However, last time I tried, I couldn’t convert the DSD ISO to FLAC.

 

So, I was wondering, does anyone if there is a tool to convert the DSD ISO to DSD files?

 

Does anyone know if it is now possible to convert the DSD ISO to FLAC? Although, I’d prefer to keep these files as DSD, just in case there’s some future advantage in preserving this format.

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

[August Bleed]

Yes you should head over to computeraudiophile.com and check out their thread ps3 SACD ripping part 2.  Ted B is the guru of the forum and one of the folks who was pioneering the work in this area (not the only one of course).  It's a long thread but essentially there is a small program that runs on windows (and OS X I believe) as a .bat file and does just that.  I suggest checking out the thread and contacting that member.  He has a PDF guide he did himself and is happy to provide folks with the knowledge.  He will also point you to the tools if the forum doesn't already do that.  Its on sourceforge.  Not difficult to find at all.

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--
August
Bleed, Inc.
Selling Art Is Tying Your Ego To a Leash And Walking It Like a Dog

[August Bleed]

 I believe the program in question only does the iso to the dsd format of your choice.  You can then just convert on the fly with the aforementioned programs you use or use the programs themselves to convert to flac.  The conversions to flac vary wildly in quality.  For now most are sticking to DSD if they can.

[Noreltny-gmail]

Thanks for the info.

 

I’ve almost got it figured out, but not quite. I’m having trouble converting the DSF files to DSD and I’d post a comment on their website, but it won’t currently let me post comments or replies. So, I’ll ask here in case someone in this group has experience with this.

 

Here’s the link to the thread that August is referring to:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/SACD-ripping-using-your-PS3-part-2

 

Here’s a link to the project page, which includes links to download the utilities:

Project home: http://code.google.com/p/sacd-ripper/

Download page: http://code.google.com/p/sacd-ripper/downloads/list

 

I downloaded the file ‘sacd_extract_0.3.6_WIN32.zip’ and extracted it into a folder that I named “sacdrip’. I copied my SACD ISO file into this directory so it would be easier to work with from a command line prompt.

 

I couldn’t find his PDF guide anywhere. If you have a link, I’d really appreciate getting a copy. He does have a link to the instructions, which are here: http://sacd-ripper.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/readme.

 

I’d use the BAT files, but they don’t appear to be of any help in my situation. I followed the instructions in the readme and just tried extracting/converting from the command line. Here’s the steps I followed:

 

1: From the start menu, I typed “CMD” into the command box (or whatever it’s called). This brings up the command window.

2. From the prompt in the command, I navigated to the “sacdrip” directory where I extracted the file ‘sacd_extract.exe’.

3. The instructions include a list of command options and a few examples. I tried following the examples. First, here’s the list of available options:

 

Usage: sacd_extract [options] [outfile]

  -2, --2ch-tracks                : Export two channel tracks (default)

  -m, --mch-tracks                : Export multi-channel tracks

  -e, --output-dsdiff-em          : output as Philips DSDIFF (Edit Master) file

  -p, --output-dsdiff             : output as Philips DSDIFF file

  -s, --output-dsf                : output as Sony DSF file

  -I, --output-iso                : output as RAW ISO

  -c, --convert-dst               : convert DST to DSD

  -C, --export-cue                : Export a CUE Sheet

  -i, --input[=FILE]              : set source and determine if "iso" image,

                                    device or server (ex. -i192.168.1.10:2002)

  -P, --print                     : display disc and track information

 

Help options:

  -?, --help                      : Show this help message

  --usage                         : Display brief usage message

 

Here’s the usage example I tried:

 

Extract all stereo tracks to multiple DSDIFF files and convert all DST to DSD:

$ sacd_extract -2 -p -c -i"Foo_Bar_RIP.ISO"

 

So, after the command prompt, I typed:

 

sacd_extract -2 –p –c –i”TAPESTRY.iso”

 

I ended up with a folder named “CAROLE KING – TAPESTRY” and 14 individual files for each track. However, none of the files were converted to DSD files. All have the extension DFF.

 

I read through the thread on Computer Audiophile and learned that if you are extracting individual files for playback, it is better to extract to DSF before converting to DSD. So, I tried this at the command line -

 

sacd_extract -2 –s –c –I”TAPESTRY.iso”

 

This time, it created the same folder and generated a bunch of DSF files, again without converting the DSF files to DSD.

 

I also tried using their usage examples to create multichannel DSD files. Again, I was successful at extracting the individual tracks into files, but I couldn’t end up with the DSD files. The conversion step is just getting ignored. I’m not getting any error messages, so the program seems to be working.

 

Any ideas???

 

Thanks

[August Bleed]

dsf files are DSD.  If you have a capable USB dac it will play natively.  Otherwise if you play it from software it will convert to PCM no MATTER WHAT.  You must burn the iso to a disc if you dont have a usb dac that is dsd capable (there are a grand total of 2).  But you got what you were supposed to get.  DSF files are DSD files.  If you can't play them you don't have a usb capable DAC.  That's all.  These are absolutely DSD files you are creating.

[August Bleed]

DFF files are also DSD.  One is a compression scheme so they could fit 5.1 material, stereo DSD, and CD layer on the same disc.  The other is uncompressed DSD.  They use this for SHM-SACDs that are stereo and for the stereo layer generally.  The MC one I believe has better tagging and support.  You sound like you are generating the right files.  It does give you a choice.  Again it's really a matter of your hardware after you get the files.

[Noreltny-gmail]

I don’t have a DAC capable of playing DSD files. I was planning to use J.River Media Center v17 or foobar2000 to play these files by converting to PCM on-the-fly. But, I still want to keep them in DSD format in case I upgrade to a DSD capable DAC in the future. I also read that you can tag DSF files, but not DFF, so that is why I chose to go that route.

 

Here’s the problem, neither JRMC17 or foobar2000 can play DSF or DFF files. I think they can play DSD files, so that’s why I was hoping this tool would generate a file with the DSD extension.

 

The weird thing is, I can play the ISO using foobar2000, but I can’t play either the DSF or DFF files extracted from it.

 

Thanks again for your help.

[Noreltny-gmail]

I don’t know what I was doing wrong before, but I am able to import and play the DSF (both stereo and multichannel) with FRMC17 and foobar2000. My mistake earlier, was that I thought I needed to convert the DSF or DFF files to DSD. There is no such thing as a file with a DSD extension. Correct me if I’m wrong, but what the utility is really doing is converting the tracks from the ISO into DSD files and letting me chose either DFF or DSF. With the DSF being more appealing because of tagging, etc.

 

Again, thanks for your help.

[August Bleed]

yes no such thing as .dsd.  the dff and dsf are on the iso proper so yes the software would have to read both by nature although individual playback of dff or dsf on standalone sacd players is elusive.  Yes you are correct it is just extracting info from the iso to tag ect.  It also allows for direct dsd playback with proper equipment which 99.999999 percent of us do not have.

[realafrica]

Noreltny
I really don't understand why you want to make dff or DSF or DSDiFF
files from the iso to just play in foobar or JRMC.
I don't know about the latter, but as foobar plays the iso fine and
will load all the tracks into the player then why convert the iso, to
whatever, at all?
Just use the iso!
I imagine you want to get JRMC to play these files, but it will not
play SACD-R iso?
Does JRMC play DFFs or any kind of DSD file?
If yes, then this is only useful to you IF you have a DSD capable DAC
either in your receiver or as an External DAC.
Without a DSD capable DAC you are wasting your time with DFFs, you
might just as well convert the iso to flac and play those via JRMC.

On Apr 22, 2:53 am, August Bleed <bleed...@gmail.com> wrote:
> yes no such thing as .dsd.  the dff and dsf are on the iso proper so yes
> the software would have to read both by nature although individual playback
> of dff or dsf on standalone sacd players is elusive.  Yes you are correct
> it is just extracting info from the iso to tag ect.  It also allows for
> direct dsd playback with proper equipment which 99.999999 percent of us do
> not have.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Noreltny-gmail <norel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I don’t know what I was doing wrong before, but I am able to import and
> > play the DSF (both stereo and multichannel) with FRMC17 and foobar2000. My
> > mistake earlier, was that I thought I needed to convert the DSF or DFF
> > files to DSD. There is no such thing as a file with a DSD extension.
> > Correct me if I’m wrong, but what the utility is really doing is converting
> > the tracks from the ISO into DSD files and letting me chose either DFF or

> > DSF. With the DSF being more appealing because of tagging, etc.****
>
> > ** **
>
> > Again, thanks for your help.****
>
> > ** **
>
> > *From:* surrou...@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> > surrou...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *August Bleed
> > *Sent:* Saturday, April 21, 2012 5:18 PM
>
> > *To:* surrou...@googlegroups.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [SurroundSound] Convert SACD ISO to individual DSD tracks?*
> > ***
>
> > ** **

>
> > DFF files are also DSD.  One is a compression scheme so they could fit 5.1
> > material, stereo DSD, and CD layer on the same disc.  The other is
> > uncompressed DSD.  They use this for SHM-SACDs that are stereo and for the
> > stereo layer generally.  The MC one I believe has better tagging and
> > support.  You sound like you are generating the right files.  It does give
> > you a choice.  Again it's really a matter of your hardware after you get

> > the files.****
>
> > On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 3:13 PM, August Bleed <bleed...@gmail.com> wrote:*
> > ***

>
> > dsf files are DSD.  If you have a capable USB dac it will play natively.
> >  Otherwise if you play it from software it will convert to PCM no MATTER
> > WHAT.  You must burn the iso to a disc if you dont have a usb dac that is
> > dsd capable (there are a grand total of 2).  But you got what you were
> > supposed to get.  DSF files are DSD files.  If you can't play them you
> > don't have a usb capable DAC.  That's all.  These are absolutely DSD files

> > you are creating.****
>
> > ** **
>
> > On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 1:38 PM, Noreltny-gmail <norel...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:****
>
> > Thanks for the info.****
>
> >  ****

>
> > I’ve almost got it figured out, but not quite. I’m having trouble
> > converting the DSF files to DSD and I’d post a comment on their website,
> > but it won’t currently let me post comments or replies. So, I’ll ask here

> > in case someone in this group has experience with this.****
>
> >  ****
>
> > Here’s the link to the thread that August is referring to:****
>
> >http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/SACD-ripping-using-your-PS3...
> > ****
>
> >  ****

>
> > Here’s a link to the project page, which includes links to download the

> > utilities:****
>
> > Project home:http://code.google.com/p/sacd-ripper/****
>
> > Download page:http://code.google.com/p/sacd-ripper/downloads/list****
>
> >  ****

>
> > I downloaded the file ‘sacd_extract_0.3.6_WIN32.zip’ and extracted it into
> > a folder that I named “sacdrip’. I copied my SACD ISO file into this

> > directory so it would be easier to work with from a command line prompt.**
> > **
>
> >  ****

>
> > I couldn’t find his PDF guide anywhere. If you have a link, I’d really
> > appreciate getting a copy. He does have a link to the instructions, which

> > are here:http://sacd-ripper.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/readme.****
>
> >  ****

>
> > I’d use the BAT files, but they don’t appear to be of any help in my
> > situation. I followed the instructions in the readme and just tried

> > extracting/converting from the command line. Here’s the steps I followed:*
> > ***
>
> >  ****

>
> > 1: From the start menu, I typed “CMD” into the command box (or whatever

> > it’s called). This brings up the command window.****

>
> > 2. From the prompt in the command, I navigated to the “sacdrip” directory

> > where I extracted the file ‘sacd_extract.exe’.****

>
> > 3. The instructions include a list of command options and a few examples.
> > I tried following the examples. First, here’s the list of available options:

> > ****
>
> >  ****
>
> > Usage: sacd_extract [options] [outfile]****
>
> >   -2, --2ch-tracks                : Export two channel tracks (default)***
> > *
>
> >   -m, --mch-tracks                : Export multi-channel tracks****

>
> >   -e, --output-dsdiff-em          : output as Philips DSDIFF (Edit Master)

> > file****
>
> >   -p, --output-dsdiff             : output as Philips DSDIFF file****
>
> >   -s, --output-dsf                : output as Sony DSF file****
>
> >   -I, --output-iso                : output as RAW ISO****
>
> >   -c, --convert-dst               : convert DST to DSD****
>
> >   -C, --export-cue                : Export a CUE Sheet****

>
> >   -i, --input[=FILE]              : set source and determine if "iso"

> > image,****
>
> >                                     device or server (ex.
> > -i192.168.1.10:2002)****
>
> >   -P, --print                     : display disc and track information****
>
> >  ****
>
> > Help options:****
>
> >   -?, --help                      : Show this help message****
>
> >   --usage                         : Display brief usage message****
>
> >  ****
>
> > Here’s the usage example I tried:****
>
> >  ****
>
> > Extract all stereo tracks to multiple DSDIFF files and convert all DST to DSD:****
>
> >  ****
>
> > $ sacd_extract -2 -p -c -i"Foo_Bar_RIP.ISO"****
>
> >  ****
>
> > So, after the command prompt, I typed: ****
>
> >  ****
>
> > sacd_extract -2 –p –c –i”TAPESTRY.iso”****
>
> >  ****

>
> > I ended up with a folder named “CAROLE KING – TAPESTRY” and 14 individual
> > files for each track. However, none of the files were converted to DSD

> > files. All have the extension DFF.****
>
> >  ****

>
> > I read through the thread on Computer Audiophile and learned that if you
> > are extracting individual files for playback, it is better to extract to

> > DSF before converting to DSD. So, I tried this at the command line - ****
>
> >  ****
>
> > sacd_extract -2 –s –c –I”TAPESTRY.iso”****
>
> >  ****

>
> > This time, it created the same folder and generated a bunch of DSF files,

> > again without converting the DSF files to DSD.****
>
> >  ****

>
> > I also tried using their usage examples to create multichannel DSD files.
> > Again, I was successful at extracting the individual tracks into files, but
> > I couldn’t end up with the DSD files. The conversion step is just getting
> > ignored. I’m not getting any error messages, so the program seems to be

> > working. ****
>
> >  ****
>
> > Any ideas???****
>
> >  ****
>
> > Thanks****
>
> >  ****
>
> >  ****
>
> > *From:* surrou...@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> > surrou...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *August Bleed
> > *Sent:* Saturday, April 21, 2012 1:25 PM
> > *To:* surrou...@googlegroups.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [SurroundSound] Convert SACD ISO to individual DSD tracks?*
> > ***
>
> >  ****

>
> > Yes you should head over to computeraudiophile.com and check out their
> > thread ps3 SACD ripping part 2.  Ted B is the guru of the forum and one of
> > the folks who was pioneering the work in this area (not the only one of
> > course).  It's a long thread but essentially there is a small program that
> > runs on windows (and OS X I believe) as a .bat file and does just that.  I
> > suggest checking out the thread and contacting that member.  He has a PDF
> > guide he did himself and is happy to provide folks with the knowledge.  He
> > will also point you to the tools if the forum doesn't already do that.  Its

> > on sourceforge.  Not difficult to find at all.****
>
> > On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Noreltny-gmail <norel...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:****

>
> > I have a few SACD ISO that play in foobar2000 and I would like to convert
> > them to individual tracks, preferably DSD files. Both my favorite players

> > J.River Media Center v17 and foobar2000 can play DSD files.****
>
> >  ****

>
> > I usually use foobar to convert ISOs to individual tracks. With DVD-A ISO,
> > I use foobar’s convert tool to losslessly convert the MLP to FLAC.

> > However, last time I tried, I couldn’t convert the DSD ISO to FLAC. ****
>
> >  ****

>
> > So, I was wondering, does anyone if there is a tool to convert the DSD ISO

> > to DSD files?****
>
> >  ****

>
> > Does anyone know if it is now possible to convert the DSD ISO to FLAC?
> > Although, I’d prefer to keep these files as DSD, just in case there’s some

> > future advantage in preserving this format.****
>
> >  ****
>
> > Thanks in advance for your help.****

>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "SurroundSound" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to Surrou...@googlegroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > SurroundSoun...@googlegroups.com
> > For more options, visit this group at

> >http://groups.google.com/group/SurroundSound****
>
> > ****
>
> >  ****
>
> > --
> > August
> > Bleed, Inc.
> > Selling Art Is Tying Your Ego To a Leash And Walking It Like a Dog****

>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "SurroundSound" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to Surrou...@googlegroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > SurroundSoun...@googlegroups.com
> > For more options, visit this group at

> >http://groups.google.com/group/SurroundSound****

>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "SurroundSound" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
>

> ...
>
> read more »

[Helio Jonathan Jesus]

Just as a note of interest, there are a fez more DAC out the capable of playing DSD natively with various players.

Obviously DCS is one of them, playback designs, MYTEK...

Cheers... 

Sent from my iPad

[realafrica]

Hello Jon,
Please name names. Links would be even better.
A 'fez load' is 3 is it? :lol:

On Apr 22, 9:27 am, Helio Jonathan Jesus <hjonathanje...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Just as a note of interest, there are a fez more DAC out the capable of playing DSD natively with various players.
>
> Obviously DCS is one of them, playback designs, MYTEK...
>
> Cheers...
>
> Sent from my iPad
>

> On 21/04/2012, at 23:13, August Bleed <bleed...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

[August Bleed]

@realafrica Everything you said is true except for the receiver part. Receivers will NOT play dsd natively from these or iso's. You must have a dsd capable external USB dac. They will not play another way as DSD. Period.

August
Bleed Inc.
Selling art is tying your ego to a leash and walking it like a dog.

Sent from the BleedPod.

[August Bleed]

Also there at this point may only be 3 usb DACs capable of doing DSD.  It's in it's infancy.  For reasons I don't understand this same capability is not available over HDMI, which obviates a receiver as a device capable of doing it.  Unfortunately even streaming to the oppo straight from the soundcard still results in PCM.  I'm sure someone will figure out how to do it over HDMI at some point but there doesn't seem to be much interest from the folks doing this stuff.  A bit of output prejudice...but I guess if you're going to do DSD right that would likely be the way to do it.

[Noreltny-gmail]

Using the tools August directed me to (thanks again), I generated DSF files
for each track from the ISO. The reason I did this instead of just playing
from the ISO is because I can tag the individual DSF files with useful
information, like artist, album, genre, style, etc., and I can imbed album
art. I can also have JRMC analyze the song and calculate the intensity,
beats-per-minute, peak level and replay gain. My whole collection, which
includes FLAC, lossless WMAs, MP3s and now DSF files are tagged and
organized with lots of metadata. This metadata is either info downloaded
from music databases like freedb or AMG, is info I've entered manually, or
is information generated by JRMC like the calculated song data I just
mentioned, the date/time the music was added to my library, when the song
was last played and how many times the song has played, etc. This allows me
to create all sorts of playlists automatically based on my mood. A lot of
times, I just like to sit and listen to the whole album. That's why I really
like the surround recordings. I can sit and relax and feel immersed in
music. However, other times I'm busy doing other things, so I just want the
music in the background. Instead of listening to the radio, I can have JRMC
create a playlist based on any number of criteria. For example, I may be in
the mood to listen to a combination of prog-rock and jazz fusion that's
mellow (BPM < 100 and Intensity < 2), and limit it to music I haven't
listened to for 6 weeks. I can't do that with ISOs. With individual tracks,
I can listen to the whole album or just a single song from the album.

I also don't like dealing with discs. I rip the disc to my media server and
then it's stored away for safe keeping. If I really wanted to insert a disc
every time I listen to something, I'd probably go back to my turntable and
vinyl albums. At least the album art and liner notes were nice and big. BTW,
I don't own a universal player like an OPPO. I have a network with several
PCs. One is a pretty powerful system in my home office that is used for work
and things like ripping audio/video and photo and video editing. I have a
couple other PCs dedicated for home entertainment. One is primarily used for
playing music. It is connected to an external multichannel DAC. The analog
outputs are paired to amps that provide power to speakers located in
different rooms in our home. So this is the system used for background
music. However the DACs are very good (but not DSD capable) when compared to
the DACs in most mid-priced A/V receivers or consumer PC soundcards. I have
another very silent PC in our family room connected to a fairly high-end
setup, which includes a nice 47" HD screen and multichannel audio system.
This is where I listen to surround recordings. These entertainment PCs are
quieter then the ambient sound in my house (and I don't have a forced air
HVAC system - it's hot water radiators), so they work very well for music,
etc.

To answer your other questions... I don't know if JRMC can play the SACD-R
ISO, I haven't tried. JRMC can play the DSF files (as can foobar2000). The
reason I went with DSF files is because they can be tagged and I read
somewhere that this was the main advantage over DFF, which is the format
more common for when the DSD is edited in production. I believe JRMC and
foobar are converting my DSF DSD files to PCM on -the-fly, so I could
probably just convert and store them as FLACs and they would probably sound
the same. However, since they sound great as DSF files and they are
tag-able, I think it makes sense to leave them as DSF in case I get a DSD

capable DAC in the future.

-----Original Message-----
From: surrou...@googlegroups.com [mailto:surrou...@googlegroups.com]

[realafrica]

Noreltny
I see your points and understand why you want to do it this way.
Thanks for explaining.
From what I read jrmc may be about to become even more DSD capable.
The developers are keen to have full DSD capability, JRMC may even be
able to play the SACD-r soon.

> ...
>
> read more »

[realafrica]

August please do your homework fully before being so pompous as to
say, "Receivers will NOT play dsd natively from these or iso's. You

must have a dsd capable external USB dac. They will not play another
way as DSD. Period"

Just as there are very few external DAC (3) actually able to deal with
real DSD, so there are also very few receivers that will really deal
with DSD natively, you just don't seem to know about them.

3 that spring to mind are:

1) Denon AVR-5805CI
2) Pioneer SC-LX90
3) Marantz SR9600

[realafrica]

August there are some receivers that will take DSD over HDMI.
I have a Pioneer 610 SACD/DVD-A player (clone of Oppo) it will output
5.1 as well as stereo DSD over HDMI only IF it is connected to the
right kind of receiver, such as the VSX-LX50 or the SC-LX90 (both
Pioneer). The player checks that thr connected component is DSD
capable before it will allow HDMI output of DSD, it the connected
component is not DSD capable then no sound is sent over HDMI.
BTW generally all the USB DAC solutions only have stereo DSD input.
Not sure about the Mytek 8x192 ( I think it called) it is Mch but
maybe not native DSD?

On Apr 23, 1:14 am, August Bleed <bleed...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Also there at this point may only *be* 3 usb DACs capable of doing DSD.

>  It's in it's infancy.  For reasons I don't understand this same capability
> is not available over HDMI, which obviates a receiver as a device capable
> of doing it.  Unfortunately even streaming to the oppo straight from the
> soundcard still results in PCM.  I'm sure someone will figure out how to do
> it over HDMI at some point but there doesn't seem to be much interest from
> the folks doing this stuff.  A bit of output prejudice...but I guess if
> you're going to do DSD right that would likely be the way to do it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 1:18 PM, August Bleed <bleed...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > @realafrica Everything you said is true except for the receiver part.
> >  Receivers will NOT play dsd natively from these or iso's.  You must have a
> > dsd capable external USB dac.  They will not play another way as DSD.
> >  Period.
>
> > August
> > Bleed Inc.
> > Selling art is tying your ego to a leash and walking it like a dog.
>
> > Sent from the BleedPod.
>

> ...
>
> read more »

[August Bleed]

• My apologies.  Last time I checked with the folks doing the plug ins they didn't support HDMI and there were no plans to do so.  If that has changed thanks for letting me know.  I do realize that ISO's on a disc will play over hdmi.  I was not aware of any solutions that let you play iso's from Foobar or what have you natively without a USB DAC (Im not talking about playing a disc on an oppo).  Again if that has changed great news.  Recently playing DFF, DSF, and/or Iso's thru a software player on a computer required a USB DAC and wouldnt output as DSD over hdmi--it was all converted to PCM.  Again if that has changed great news.  

> ...
>
> read more »

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[August Bleed]

Just to be clear I was speaking of playing dsf, dff, iso's through a software player on a computer.  NOT about DSD over HDMI in general.  Of course DSD travels over hdmi since v1.3.  I was only speaking to playing these files thru foobar or Jriver over hdmi to a receiver.  I hope that I wasn't being condescending about it.  I've been following these forums about SACD ripping for a while.   As recently as 2 weeks ago the software was unable to do DSD over anything but USB.  That isn't to say it's impossible to do so.  They just weren't writing the drivers for that.  Obviously if you burn the ISO to disc and you have a DSD capable receiver you are going to get DSD.  But I believe we are talking about plug ins for software players like Foobar and Jriver.  You should let the folks at CA and AudioCircle that you have figured out how to get the software to play native DSD over HDMI through these programs.  There is a lot of interest.  If you need links let me know.  

[August Bleed]

Yes it will decode it into PCM.  If you don't mind the conversion it's a rather elegant way of getting around being able to play SACDs from a computer.  AFAIK still can't be done and gets converted to PCM.  I think a couple more DSD capable receivers have come on the market--I don't know if they would handle the DOP protocol.  So far the number of outboard DACs able to do this is still in the handful quantity though it's changing rapidly.  I think there was some interest in having the plug ins work with HDMI and AVRs but I believe there were some problems with different implementations that prevented this from happening.  Some RECENT AVRs came out with USB ports to act as DACs and those MAY be capable of playing them natively. If you are just concerned with playing the iso's without care for PCM/DSD they should play just fine on most equipment over HDMI--it'll just be some version of PCM.  Again if someone knows of some gear getting around this there is much interest in native DSD on AVR type equipment.  Even a DSD capable DAC doesn't mean that is what you will get--I can get music to my Oppo in a variety of manners but the only way for the DAC to recognize it as DSD without conversion is with a disc.  

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:08 PM, Happydog <jrc...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have no problems playing .dff using Foobar2000.  A composite .dff file will split and play each individual "track" as a properly named and tagged DSD codec trrack with the ID info completely correct within Foobar2000.  You simply need to install the DSDIFF Decoder component (latest version is 1.4).  The tracks sound tremendous and I have no problem playing them whatsoever...  :) 

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[lokkerman]

Just to throw in some really gritty detail to this – about 3 years ago we looked at which DACs could natively decode DSD. There were about 3 and intended for low end decoders using differential single bit decoding.

Most DACs are ladder types and although accept a DSD input actually convert to PCM inside. I know there are some silly money types that will do the decode but most will only do PCM, so why the issue of doing the decode at source when error checking over PCM connections is now state of the art? Is DSD?

BTW I stick to analogue outputs as I don’t believe that DACs should live in the same box as power outputs, having once designed amplifiers.

 

From: surrou...@googlegroups.com [mailto:surrou...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of August Bleed

Sent: 31 January 2013 19:08
To: surrou...@googlegroups.com

[Steven Sullivan]

Analog out is still dealing with a preamp stage.  On my Oppo for example I have volume control over the analog outs.

Not that it matters. DACs living with a power amp stage in the same box was a solved problem long ago.  Properly designed there will be no audible effects.

As for DSD-->PCM, again, not hard to achieve transparency.  DSD was actually designed to be converted to PCM.  It was not originally meant to be a consumer format.

[Kurt Lassen]

Sorry if this has been discussed and solved before....

I have not found out how to convert a SACD ISO so I can play it in iTunes together with the rest of my music. I use MacosX.

The ISO plays fine when I load it to my AudirvanaPlus software, but sometimes I want to add it to some playlists and other editing stuff, so I´d like to convert them to Flac or Aiif/ iTunes…

I am sorry if this has been solved already, and if, then I have not been able to find the right Web site   ;=)

I hope you maybe can help, or point me to sites who can

Cordially

KK

[Gary Minato]

In light of no expert comments to your question, this might help you ...

XLD -works fine if you have a .cue file 

https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/23430/x-lossless-decoder

Other tools might come in handy include;

​

xACT - https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/14246/xact

iSonics

​https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/45162/isonics

macupdate.com is a good place to find apps that aren't in the Apple Mac App Store ... Did you look in the Apple Mac App Store for other apps?

​

Cheers

Gary

—
Sent from Mailbox for iPhone

--

[ROBERT COOGAN]

Hi Kurt. I personally have no knowledge of any Mac utilities for this. I use Foobar with SACD plugin, or SACDRIPPER on Windows to convert SACD ISO files to FLAC format.
Unsure whether this can be of any use to you.

Regards Rob

Gary Minato <gary....@gmail.com> wrote:

[ROBERT COOGAN]

sorry just realised the application is SACD_EXTRACT not SACDRIPPER.


ROBERT COOGAN <bobc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[Kurt Lassen]

Hi Guys

Thanx for your good ideas...

Sorry, they don't work

Best Regards Mit freundlichen Grüssen Kurt😄 

Sent from iPad

 

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[David Rogoff]

Jumping in in the middle below...

On Sunday, April 22, 2012 12:01:12 PM UTC-7, realafrica wrote:

Noreltny
I really don't understand why you want to make dff or DSF or DSDiFF files from the iso to just play in foobar or JRMC.  I don't know about the latter, but as foobar plays the iso fine and will load all the tracks into the player then why convert the iso, to whatever, at all?
Just use the iso!

I don't like/trust any photo/music library system and want to keep each track as a separate file so I can control things at the file/directory level.  Easier for quickly playing one song or copying to a portable player.

 

I imagine you want to get JRMC to play these files, but it will not play SACD-R iso?

Doesn't look like it.

 

Does JRMC play DFFs or any kind of DSD file?

Yes.  I'm using the Mac beta and it's fine with DFF and DSF.

 

If yes, then this is only useful to you IF you have a DSD capable DAC either in your receiver or as an External DAC.
Without a DSD capable DAC you are wasting your time with DFFs, you might just as well convert the iso to flac and play those via JRMC.

Yes and no.  I had been converting to 5.1 FLAC files.  But that's more work and requires deciding what sample rate to use.  It seemed better to just have the .DSF or .DFF files for each track and let the player decode on the fly.  Then, when 5.1 DSD DACs cost less than my car, I can switch to that without having to re-split all the ISO files.

However, I do have a question about DSF vs DFF based on lots of experiments this weekend. I have a bunch of SACDs, DVD-As, and some BD-A disks and a nice 5.0 audio system setup.  I'm using a Mac Mini driving an Atlona HD570 to extract the audio to analog to my Denon AVR and then using an Outlaw ICBM analog bass management unit.  For the foreseeable future, I'll probably be using JRiver to play music and the Atlona doesn't speak DSD, so I'm going to have PCM coming out of the Mac.   I had been using sacd_extract to split up the ISOs into tracks and then foobar2000 to convert to multi-channel FLAC files at 96 or 176KHz.  However, as I was saying, it seems better to just keep the DSF files from sacd_extract.

I'm confused a bit about the DST compression.  I took the ISO of Tubular Bells, which was 2.74GB - which includes both sides of the album in 2.0 and 5.1.  After sacd_extract, just side 1 was a 2.75GB file for multi-channel.  Is this because the SACD/ISO used DST compression?  If so, is there a way for the DSF file to also be compressed?  It doesn't seem to matter whether or not I specify --convert-dst.   However, if I specify  --output-dsdiff, the file is only 884MB!  So, does dff keep the compress but dsf doesn't?   I wanted to use dsf since I read that dff doesn't support tags.  However, if the files are going to be 3 times bigger, I'm going to have to re-think this.

The choices seem to be:

• Just keep the ISO
• Can't deal with individual tracks at the OS level
• Have all areas (2.0, 5.1, etc) present.  Could be seen as advantage or disadvantage.
• Can only play with foobar?
• Can only run foobar on PC or Mac under Parallels/WinXP (tried to set up under wine and got nowhere after many hours)
• Keep DFF for each track
• Can play in several programs
• "relatively" small files
• no degradation converting to PCM (at least in the file - playback is a different issue)
• no tagging as far as I've read
• Keep DSF for each track
• Can play in several programs
• huge files!  Think this is due to DST compression not being supported
• no degradation converting to PCM (at least in the file - playback is a different issue)
• can tag files
• Keep FLAC files
• Most work
• Most portable / software and hardware support including editors
• Need to choose sample rate and bit depth
• foobar allows choice when converting
• JRiver didn't give choice
• converted to enormous file with sample rate of 352,800!  This also choked vlc which thinks it's an error and won't play it.

Does all this look correct?  Comments?  Suggestions?  

Thanks,

 David

[David Rogoff]

On Monday, August 5, 2013 6:56:17 AM UTC-7, Kurt Lassen wrote:

Hi Guys

Thanx for your good ideas...

Sorry, they don't work

There's a Mac version of sacd_extract.  I use this to split ISOs into tracks.  You can then use JRiver (beta works great on Mac) or foobar2000 (under Parallels/Win or wine) to export as FLAC.  Was doing this all weekend!

XLD is great, too.

I tried AudirvanaPlus and a couple of other high-end playback programs in the last few days but they were all crashing and freezing.  I also avoid iTunes like the plague so I can't help there.   For simple, just play a song/album, I use vlc.  For more control, I'm thinking JRiver is the best with a good history and multi-platform support.

 David

[Lokkerman]

For those of you looking for the "best sound" conversion in Foobar from SACD to PCM try this alternative: http://vladgsound.wordpress.com/experimental/sacd-foobar2000/#respond

[mircea raibulet]

NICE !!

[Kurt Lassen]

Where Can i find this
sacd_extract for MacOsX ??

Best Regards Mit freundlichen Grüssen Kurt L 😄

Sent from iPad



On 06/08/2013, at 07.16, mircea raibulet <mrai...@gmail.com> wrote:

> sacd_extract

[ROBERT COOGAN]

I have sent you seperate email regarding this.

I am not sure this forum is the correct place to post links for copying audio from SACD.

Regards
Rob

[Kurt Lassen]

Hi David

How do you use SACD_Extract? It doesn´t work here, it opens Terminal and then nothing happens…

Best Regards

Kurt 

[Lokkerman]

Moderator comment from Lokks

- Copying SACD - considering this was the forum that championed this act; primarily so that we could preserve these fragile discs and in my circumstances listen to my expensive collection on my HTPC, we are not off piste on this. The rest is now known and dealt with in more depth in many other forums.

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[David Rogoff]

First, just to be sure, you got the Mac version, right?  No .exe at the end :)

Assuming you downloaded to the default, it would be something like this:

~/Downloads/sacd_extract --mch-tracks --output-dsdiff --input="Mike Oldfield - Tubular Bells.iso"

--mch-tracks says to grab the multi-channel tracks.    --2ch-tracks grabs the stereo tracks.

--output-dsdiff gives you diff files, which can't be tagged but are much smaller for multi-channel

--output-dsf gives you dsf files.

--input= is obviously the name of the iso file.  The output apparently always goes to the directory where you run the program so cd there first!

You can also use

~/Downloads/sacd_extract --print --input="Mike Oldfield - Tubular Bells.iso"

This will give you a listing of what's in the iso.

Anyway, you can't click on it.  You have to open a terminal and type the command with the proper arguments after it.

[Kurt Lassen]

Hi David

Thanks a lot for all your time you put in this. Great!

I understand the idea behind it, but am not able to "unzip" the ISO files yet. I have a friend coming over one of the next days, he understands more of this DOS-ish Terminal stuff then I do.

Even if I have worked in high tech TV studios at the National TV for 20 years, surrounded by state of the art equipment, I don't get this.

I'll let you know when my friend has been here, and the ISO's are playing happily through my speakers. 

Again, thanks a thousand times ;)

Best Regards Kurt 😄 

Sent from iPad

 

[David Rogoff]

No problem.  I'm actually not using this right now and am experimenting with just leaving the .ISO files since foobar2000 and JRiver Media Center (which I just bought) can read them directly.  Not sure if I'll stay with this since I like having each track a separate file, but it's certainly less work for now!   Also, for SACDs that have 2.0 and 5.1 versions of an album, it's a bit confusing.  I was using sacd_extract and then making folders/directories for each version of an album.

 David

[Kurt Lassen]

Hi David

Cool, i am doing the same thing. I play ISO files from my AudirvanaPlus player. So i dont HAVE to extract them, it just could be nice so i could put them in different playlistst and edit the names of them so they suit my library and stuff...

Best K ;)

Sent from iPad

 

[Kurt Lassen]

Hi David

I was having a friend to help me with this. He actually did now what cd means. (i thought it was a music CD), but i means Change Directory!!!!

Anyway, he and I was using a 4-5 hours converting stuff, and SUCCEEDED at last. Hurraaaiiii!!!!!

We could extract the ISO to some .dsf files. The next step was to concert the .dsf´s to something I can PLAY in iTunes….  After more hours, and more hours, we found a small program that could do just that. But only ONE file at a time…..

Now I was loosing my patience…. and checked AudirvanaPlus again… This cool software has ALL I NEED!!!!!!

There is an option: "Add Files To iTunes".

I then drag my ISO file to the new opened window, and whushhhh…. AudirvanaPlus extracts, and converts all the files I need. Hours, or even weeks of conversion are just done within minutes now.

Best Regards

K