After reading countless favorable reviews, I bought myself a new LHT
about a year and a half ago, with the intention of using it for
touring. Never having toured before, I accepted the "wisdom" that this
is what a touring bike should be like. Now though, I'm not so sure...
I have toured with it and enjoyed my trip thoroughly, but I feel that
the bike made me work a lot harder than was necessary. The bike is so
heavy it seems absurd. Maybe that is not a big deal for a larger
person, but the extra weight made the bike very difficult to handle
when I wasn't on it. It seemed to relish attacking my calves and
achilles tendons at every opportunity, savagely gouging me with
whatever sharp piece was nearest unprotected flesh.
And what's up with the bar-end shifters? Sharp turns bumped them into
my knees. This didn't look like a smart place to put shifters, and
it's not. Why not the down tube?
Worse than these design flaws, rust is showing through the paint in
several places. This started before the bike had spent a single night
outside. I don't even keep it in a garage - it's right in my living
room! The bolts rusted immediately and badly, but I can replace those.
Can I actually be the only person in the world who does not love this
bike? What am I missing here?
You are not alone. I sold mine to a college student, and happily never looked back. I did like the ride of the bike....MOST of the time, but I too, found it heavy and cumbersome. And, YES I know it is a touring bike...but compared to a quality touring bike from yesteryear, think older Schwinn Voyageur, I do not see the value in the bike. The LHT has the acceleration of an 18 wheeler, quite apropos for the name...At my age, I do not need to spend that extra energy accelerating my bicycle.
I happily ride along on my converted Bridgestone MB-2, which can do 90% of what my LHT could. Which is just fine. Or if speed is needed, my Richard Sachs. Now if I could just shake the voice in the back of my head, which is telling me to sell the MB-2, and get a frame/fork of a Cross Check....
Lynn Miller WC MO
________________________________ From: rh <rhmana...@gmail.com> To: Surly Long Haul Trucker & Cross-Check Owners Group <surlylht@googlegroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 10:12 PM Subject: [SurlyLHT-CC] I think maybe I hate my LHT...
After reading countless favorable reviews, I bought myself a new LHT about a year and a half ago, with the intention of using it for touring. Never having toured before, I accepted the "wisdom" that this is what a touring bike should be like. Now though, I'm not so sure... I have toured with it and enjoyed my trip thoroughly, but I feel that the bike made me work a lot harder than was necessary. The bike is so heavy it seems absurd. Maybe that is not a big deal for a larger person, but the extra weight made the bike very difficult to handle when I wasn't on it. It seemed to relish attacking my calves and achilles tendons at every opportunity, savagely gouging me with whatever sharp piece was nearest unprotected flesh. And what's up with the bar-end shifters? Sharp turns bumped them into my knees. This didn't look like a smart place to put shifters, and it's not. Why not the down tube? Worse than these design flaws, rust is showing through the paint in several places. This started before the bike had spent a single night outside. I don't even keep it in a garage - it's right in my living room! The bolts rusted immediately and badly, but I can replace those. Can I actually be the only person in the world who does not love this bike? What am I missing here?
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Surly Long Haul Trucker & Cross-Check Owners Group" group. To post to this group, send email to surlylht@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to surlylht+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/surlylht?hl=en.
> You are not alone. I sold mine to a college student, and happily never looked back. I did like the ride of the bike....MOST of the time, but I too, found it heavy and cumbersome. And, YES I know it is a touring bike...but compared to a quality touring bike from yesteryear, think older Schwinn Voyageur, I do not see the value in the bike. The LHT has the acceleration of an 18 wheeler, quite apropos for the name...At my age, I do not need to spend that extra energy accelerating my bicycle.
> I happily ride along on my converted Bridgestone MB-2, which can do 90% of what my LHT could. Which is just fine. Or if speed is needed, my Richard Sachs. Now if I could just shake the voice in the back of my head, which is telling me to sell the MB-2, and get a frame/fork of a Cross Check....
> Lynn Miller > WC MO
> From: rh <rhmana...@gmail.com> > To: Surly Long Haul Trucker & Cross-Check Owners Group <surlylht@googlegroups.com> > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 10:12 PM > Subject: [SurlyLHT-CC] I think maybe I hate my LHT...
> After reading countless favorable reviews, I bought myself a new LHT > about a year and a half ago, with the intention of using it for > touring. Never having toured before, I accepted the "wisdom" that this > is what a touring bike should be like. Now though, I'm not so sure... > I have toured with it and enjoyed my trip thoroughly, but I feel that > the bike made me work a lot harder than was necessary. The bike is so > heavy it seems absurd. Maybe that is not a big deal for a larger > person, but the extra weight made the bike very difficult to handle > when I wasn't on it. It seemed to relish attacking my calves and > achilles tendons at every opportunity, savagely gouging me with > whatever sharp piece was nearest unprotected flesh. > And what's up with the bar-end shifters? Sharp turns bumped them into > my knees. This didn't look like a smart place to put shifters, and > it's not. Why not the down tube? > Worse than these design flaws, rust is showing through the paint in > several places. This started before the bike had spent a single night > outside. I don't even keep it in a garage - it's right in my living > room! The bolts rusted immediately and badly, but I can replace those. > Can I actually be the only person in the world who does not love this > bike? What am I missing here?
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Surly Long Haul Trucker & Cross-Check Owners Group" group. > To post to this group, send email to surlylht@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to surlylht+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/surlylht?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Surly Long Haul Trucker & Cross-Check Owners Group" group. > To post to this group, send email to surlylht@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to surlylht+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/surlylht?hl=en.
More "versatile" to me, lighter (relatively...) quicker handling yes, ability to carry the loads I need, and something new to try. It's not a tank. Maybe a Hummer, but not a tank. This will probably never happen, but a friend who now works for QBP loved to commute on his, and he did the occasional cross race.
Lynn Miller WC MO
________________________________ From: Carla Waugh <lhtbikert...@gmail.com> To: "surlylht@googlegroups.com" <surlylht@googlegroups.com> Cc: "surlylht@googlegroups.com" <surlylht@googlegroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 7:44 AM Subject: Re: [SurlyLHT-CC] I think maybe I hate my LHT...
What's better about the Crosscheck? Is it lighter quicker handling?
Artist/Art Educator/Bicyclist
On Apr 17, 2012, at 6:59 AM, Lynn Miller <llae1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
You are not alone. I sold mine to a college student, and happily never looked back. I did like the ride of the bike....MOST of the time, but I too, found it heavy and cumbersome. And, YES I know it is a touring bike...but compared to a quality touring bike from yesteryear, think older Schwinn Voyageur, I do not see the value in the bike. The LHT has the acceleration of an 18 wheeler, quite apropos for the name...At my age, I do not need to spend that extra energy accelerating my bicycle.
>I happily ride along on my converted Bridgestone MB-2, which can do 90% of what my LHT could. Which is just fine. Or if speed is needed, my Richard Sachs. Now if I could just shake the voice in the back of my head, which is telling me to sell the MB-2, and get a frame/fork of a Cross Check....
>Lynn Miller >WC MO
>________________________________ > From: rh <rhmana...@gmail.com> >To: Surly Long Haul Trucker & Cross-Check Owners Group <surlylht@googlegroups.com> >Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 10:12 PM >Subject: [SurlyLHT-CC] I think maybe I hate my LHT...
>After reading countless favorable reviews, I bought myself a new LHT >about a year and a half ago, with the intention of using it for >touring. Never having toured before, I accepted the "wisdom" that this >is what a touring bike should be like. Now though, I'm not so sure... >I have toured with it and enjoyed my trip thoroughly, but I feel that >the bike made me work a lot harder than was necessary. The bike is so >heavy it seems absurd. Maybe that is not a big deal for a larger >person, but the extra weight made the bike very difficult to handle >when I wasn't on it. It seemed to relish attacking my calves and >achilles tendons at every opportunity, savagely gouging me with >whatever sharp piece was nearest unprotected flesh. >And what's up with the bar-end shifters? Sharp turns bumped them into >my knees. This didn't look like a smart place to put shifters, and >it's not. Why not the down tube? >Worse than these design
>several places. This started before the bike had spent a single night >outside. I don't even keep it in a garage - it's right in my living >room! The bolts rusted immediately and badly, but I can replace those. >Can I actually be the only person in the world who does not love this >bike? What am I missing here?
>-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Surly Long Haul Trucker & Cross-Check Owners Group" group. >To post to this group, send email to surlylht@googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to surlylht+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/surlylht?hl=en.
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X-Check has a higher bottom bracket so you don't scrape the pedals as much. Cross Check is great for city riding.
--- On Tue, 4/17/12, Carla Waugh <lhtbikert...@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Carla Waugh <lhtbikert...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [SurlyLHT-CC] I think maybe I hate my LHT... To: "surlylht@googlegroups.com" <surlylht@googlegroups.com> Cc: "surlylht@googlegroups.com" <surlylht@googlegroups.com> Date: Tuesday, April 17, 2012, 7:44 AM
What's better about the Crosscheck? Is it lighter quicker handling?
Artist/Art Educator/Bicyclist On Apr 17, 2012, at 6:59 AM, Lynn Miller <llae1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
You are not alone. I sold mine to a college student, and happily never looked back. I did like the ride of the bike....MOST of the time, but I too, found it heavy and cumbersome. And, YES I know it is a touring bike...but compared to a quality touring bike from yesteryear, think older Schwinn Voyageur, I do not see the value in the bike. The LHT has the acceleration of an 18 wheeler, quite apropos for the name...At my age, I do not need to spend that extra energy accelerating my bicycle.
I happily ride along on my converted Bridgestone MB-2, which can do 90% of what my LHT could. Which is just fine. Or if speed is needed, my Richard Sachs. Now if I could just shake the voice in the back of my head, which is telling me to sell the MB-2, and get a frame/fork of a Cross Check.... Lynn MillerWC MO
From: rh <rhmana...@gmail.com> To: Surly Long Haul Trucker & Cross-Check Owners Group <surlylht@googlegroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 10:12 PM Subject: [SurlyLHT-CC] I think maybe I hate my LHT...
After reading countless favorable reviews, I bought myself a new LHT about a year and a half ago, with the intention of using it for touring. Never having toured before, I accepted the "wisdom" that this is what a touring bike should be like. Now though, I'm not so sure... I have toured with it and enjoyed my trip thoroughly, but I feel that the bike made me work a lot harder than was necessary. The bike is so heavy it seems absurd. Maybe that is not a big deal for a larger person, but the extra weight made the bike very difficult to handle when I wasn't on it. It seemed to relish attacking my calves and achilles tendons at every opportunity, savagely gouging me with whatever sharp piece was nearest unprotected flesh. And what's up with the bar-end shifters? Sharp turns bumped them into my knees. This didn't look like a smart place to put shifters, and it's not. Why not the down tube? Worse than these design flaws, rust is showing through the paint in several places. This started before the bike had spent a single night outside. I don't even keep it in a garage - it's right in my living room! The bolts rusted immediately and badly, but I can replace those. Can I actually be the only person in the world who does not love this bike? What am I missing here?
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If your knees are hitting the shifters is sounds like your frame could be the wrong size. It's not a design flaw of the LHT itself, you can build it up any way you please. I have opted for downtube shifters but you can also use thumbies or STI shifters. Bar end shifters is a quirk of the stock build. Maybe you ought to think about changing the handlebars so that the shifters aren't in the way of your knees? Also, the frame itself isn't that heavy, it's the parts that are on it that make it heavy. You could look into getting thinner/lighter tyres, a lightweight rear sprocket, carbon fibre handle bars, lighter hubs. When not packed with gear I find my trucker light and sprightly to ride, even with randonneuring tyres. I ride a lightweight single speed bike too and I'm not saying it's anything like as quick or light, but when it's not packed I don't have any issue with acceleration, in fact with my huge range of touring gears (24-48, 11-34) I find I'm often the fastest bicycle on the road. The only aspect that I feel slows me down considerably is the heavy and thick randonneuring tyres but they make the ride so comfy it doesn't bother me a bit. I'm not sure about the sharp attacking bits you mentioned but perhaps if you post some pictures someone may be able to spot what's wrong. I definitely haven't encountered any aggressive behaviour coming from my LHT!
Have you tried putting your touring luggage on another bike to see how the weight compares? When I'm on tour, the bike usually weighs less than what I am carrying on it, even leaving the rider aside.
My 2008 LHT frame and fork (58cm, 700C) weigh about 7.5 lbs. total with the steerer cut to the length I wanted. That's a lot heavier than a carbon fiber bike, and heavier than a steel racing or brevet bike, but not by too much. The extra weight comes from using heavy, oversized tubing, and longer chainstays (and, hence, seat stays), to produce a frame that is strong enough to handle carrying a heavy load along rough roads.
A lot of the additional weight of the bike itself, though, comes from the components. The LHT complete specifies reliable but inexpensive components in order to reach its price point. That's going to add weight, though not necessarily much compared with more expensive components that are also designed to last a long time on tour. 36-spoke wheels with lower-end hubs, and a triple crank, both add weight. Add to that the weight of racks and fenders for carrying stuff and keeping you and the bike clean, and you've got a heavy package. My LHT weighs around 34 lbs. with stainless steel racks and fenders, lights, bottle cages, frame pump, and a Brooks Flyer saddle (2 lbs. right there!), even with a lighter-weight wheelset from Peter White for light touring and day rides (granted, the front wheel does have a SON-28 dynamo hub). In other words, nearly 27 lbs. of the bike's weight is not in the frame and fork, but in the components I put on it. It would be absurd to build up the LHT with lightweight components, but if you did that, you could probably get it down to 23 lbs. or so; after all, Rivendell can get their Roadeo steel-framed bike under 20 lbs.
Now, I weigh around 200 lbs., and I might throw 40 lbs. of gear (or more) on the bike, or take it out for a ride on the pothill-filled side roads in my western Massachusetts town. That's why I got the LHT in the first place. If you're substantially lighter than me, or you're not going to be carrying around that much gear on tour, then the LHT might well be overkill. In that case, you might consider a lighter-weight bike--a sport-tourer, or what Rivendell calls a "country bike." At the LHT's price point, a Raleigh Clubman might fit the bill, though I think the current model is geared too high for serious touring.
Any loaded touring bike is going to be harder to handle than an unloaded bike. I did a short overnight tour Sunday and Monday, my first since last July, and I had to keep reminding myself when starting off that I couldn't tilt the bike sideways to mount it, the way I usually do, or I'd have to wrestle it back upright. In this case the bike was a Bike Friday New World Tourist, not an LHT, but the same principle applies. Similarly, the bike will have more momentum when you are pushing or moving it, making it easier to inadvertently whack yourself with a pedal or something else.
Bar-end shifters are fairly common on touring bikes, and have been for years. Trek uses them on the 520, for example. They're more reliable than brifters (among other things, the rear shifter can be put in friction mode if you have a problem with your indexing) and more convenient than reaching down to the downtube, especially in the relatively upright position that most tourers prefer. If you don't like them, though, you can get some Shimano indexed downtube shifters, or friction shifters. It's easy for you or a shop mechanic to change them.
Bolts will rust in humid air, especially if you live near the ocean. If you have significant rust on the frame, though, that suggests that you got a bad or a damaged frame. You shouldn't be able to see through the powdercoat. Have you taken up the problem with the shop where you bought the bike?
In short, the rust sounds like a production problem that should be a warranty repair; the shifters can be changed; and the weight comes from a bike that is designed to reliably carry a heavy load a long way under rough conditions. You may decide that a lighter bike is worth the tradeoff in carrying capacity; if you do, I'm sure you could find a buyer for your LHT (as long as you get the rust problem fixed!).
Brian
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 5:12 AM, rh <rhmana...@gmail.com> wrote: > Can I actually be the only person in the world who does not love this > bike? What am I missing here?
Sorry you've had a bad experience. Yes, lots of people love their
LHTs, but "your mileage may vary", as they say. I don't think you're
missing anything - the LHT is a no compromises loaded touring bike.
That's why it has a really low BB, long chainstays, and beefy frame
tubes. When you've got 50 lbs or more of stuff loaded on the bike, it
doesn't matter what the bike itself weighs. And anyway, the LHT is
NOT the heaviest touring bike out there, even though it is
significantly heavier than the aluminum and carbon fiber roadbikes
that most people are used to. Of course, riding around with heavy
loaded panniers on racks is not the only way to tour. It sounds like
you might prefer a lighter, swifter bike, maybe using a Bob trailer or
a frame bag.
Bar end shifters are fantastic. The shifters should not be poking
you. I suspect that your handlebar needs for be tilted up or you need
a longer stem. In any case, the shifters are not a design flaw;
your's are not set up correctly. Still, its a personal choice, and
plenty of people don't like barends. The cheapest and easiest thing
to do is just move the levers to the downtube. You could also switch
out the barends for brifters at some expense. Or use Paul's Thumbies
or a similar sort of mount to get the shift levers up on the
handlebar. Also, your frame should not have "sharp peices" that
"savagely gauge" you. The frame tubes should be perfectly smooth.
Are you saying that your's aren't? Maybe you have cables sticking out
or some other compenent or accessory that is not mounted correctly.
Or you are embellishing. Either way, that's not the LHT's fault. As
far as the rust, I don't know. Maybe you got the "Monday" frame. Or
maybe your bike shop had it out in the rain for a month before you
bought it. But rust under the paint is unusual. I've had my LHT for
years and no rust beyond a little surface oxidation here and there
that is totally normal for a steel bike. And I've never treated with
framesaver either. Nor do I baby it. Anyway, the possiblity of rust
is going to be a concern on any steel bicycle, not just the LHT.
The CC frameset itself is only marginally lighter than the LHTs. The
CC, however, has shorter chainstays and feels significantly snappier.
And usually CC's are built up with lighter components than LHTs,
making them lighter bicycles, usually. I, for one, was surpised at
how much faster the CC feels compared to the LHT since the numbers
show it should not be THAT much different. But it is. It might be
more to your liking. There are plenty of steel cyclocross bikes
similar to the CC. Masi, Raleigh, and Civia come to mind. The Salsa
Cassaroll is reported very nice too.
If you do decide to give your LHT a second chance, go over it and
ensure that all the "pokey" bits are remounted or corrected in some
way. Your shop should be able to do that too, if desired. Change or
move your shifters. Treat the rusted areas with some rust stablizer
and paint over it (unless it really is excessive and maybe your shop
will take the frame back on warrenty). And you might also try
different, faster rolling, tires. That really helped me.
Good luck.
On Apr 16, 11:12 pm, rh <rhmana...@gmail.com> wrote:
> After reading countless favorable reviews, I bought myself a new LHT
> about a year and a half ago, with the intention of using it for
> touring. Never having toured before, I accepted the "wisdom" that this
> is what a touring bike should be like. Now though, I'm not so sure...
> I have toured with it and enjoyed my trip thoroughly, but I feel that
> the bike made me work a lot harder than was necessary. The bike is so
> heavy it seems absurd. Maybe that is not a big deal for a larger
> person, but the extra weight made the bike very difficult to handle
> when I wasn't on it. It seemed to relish attacking my calves and
> achilles tendons at every opportunity, savagely gouging me with
> whatever sharp piece was nearest unprotected flesh.
> And what's up with the bar-end shifters? Sharp turns bumped them into
> my knees. This didn't look like a smart place to put shifters, and
> it's not. Why not the down tube?
> Worse than these design flaws, rust is showing through the paint in
> several places. This started before the bike had spent a single night
> outside. I don't even keep it in a garage - it's right in my living
> room! The bolts rusted immediately and badly, but I can replace those.
> Can I actually be the only person in the world who does not love this
> bike? What am I missing here?
I've owned a lot of touring bikes and the LHT is not a particularly heavy/stiff one. It's right about the middle of the pack in that regard which is where most people want/need a touring bike to be. If you are extremely heavy and/or carry a ton of gear the LHT might be too flexy/light for you. OTOH if you are extremely light and carry next to nothing the LHT might be too much touring bike. That aspect comes down to selecting the right bike for your needs. Obviously the LHT isn't going to be the perfect bike for everyone and equally obviously a lot of people love it.
The biggest single performance improvement you can make with any bike is efficient tires. It's an easy upgrade and just like most cars most bikes are sold with low cost low performance tires. Every time a friend complains about their bike I get them to swap to a fast tire [generally wider and supple] which they love because they are fast and comfortable to ride.
I love bar end shifters and never have them bump my knees. If you don't like 'em swap in some downtube shifters. You can probably sell the bar cons for more than some downtubes will cost you or find someone who wants to swap.
Ultimately though if you don't love your LHT sell it and move on. Life is too short to ride a bike you hate. Just be aware if you are shopping for another touring bike you are going to end up with another shade of the same type of bike. If you don't actually want to do much touring maybe you just need a cyclocross bike that can carry a couple light panniers or pull a 2 wheel trailer for the odd tour.
> After reading countless favorable reviews, I bought myself a new LHT > about a year and a half ago, with the intention of using it for > touring. Never having toured before, I accepted the "wisdom" that this > is what a touring bike should be like. Now though, I'm not so sure... > I have toured with it and enjoyed my trip thoroughly, but I feel that > the bike made me work a lot harder than was necessary. The bike is so > heavy it seems absurd. Maybe that is not a big deal for a larger > person, but the extra weight made the bike very difficult to handle > when I wasn't on it. It seemed to relish attacking my calves and > achilles tendons at every opportunity, savagely gouging me with > whatever sharp piece was nearest unprotected flesh. > And what's up with the bar-end shifters? Sharp turns bumped them into > my knees. This didn't look like a smart place to put shifters, and > it's not. Why not the down tube? > Worse than these design flaws, rust is showing through the paint in > several places. This started before the bike had spent a single night > outside. I don't even keep it in a garage - it's right in my living > room! The bolts rusted immediately and badly, but I can replace those. > Can I actually be the only person in the world who does not love this > bike? What am I missing here?
I suspect that one significant source of my problems is that I am much
smaller than the "average" person bike designers have in mind. It
seemed that Surly had taken rider size into consideration far more
than most manufacturers, offering a wider range of frame sizes than is
typical, and even using smaller wheels on the smaller sizes, so I
thought that this would be a good choice for me. My bike is a stock 50
cm, plus fenders and rack, and weighs almost 30 lbs. Loaded for
touring brought that up to 70 lbs. I am 5' 2" and weigh 92 lbs, so
every bit of extra weight is probably a bigger deal for me than
considerations of strength, flex, and sturdiness that might be
priorities for someone larger. I have small feet, so heel clearance is
not a significant issue either. I'm thinking now that these factors
add up to me not needing a "touring" frame at all.
There aren't sharp parts of the frame, but the heaviness of the loaded
bike made it really hard for me to control it while walking it around.
I was attacked by the pedals, the chain ring, and the fenders and
their malicious sharpened mounting hardware. Probably adding low front
racks could have helped distribute my load better, but that would have
added even MORE weight with the additional racks and panniers.
I am trying to decide whether I should replace the troublesome parts
or whether the frame itself is the root of the problem. Thanks for all
the helpful suggestions and support.
On Apr 17, 11:07 am, Vik Banerjee <three...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've owned a lot of touring bikes and the LHT is not a particularly heavy/stiff one. It's right about the middle of the pack in that regard which is where most people want/need a touring bike to be. If you are extremely heavy and/or carry a ton of gear the LHT might be too flexy/light for you. OTOH if you are extremely light and carry next to nothing the LHT might be too much touring bike. That aspect comes down to selecting the right bike for your needs. Obviously the LHT isn't going to be the perfect bike for everyone and equally obviously a lot of people love it.
> The biggest single performance improvement you can make with any bike is efficient tires. It's an easy upgrade and just like most cars most bikes are sold with low cost low performance tires. Every time a friend complains about their bike I get them to swap to a fast tire [generally wider and supple] which they love because they are fast and comfortable to ride.
> I love bar end shifters and never have them bump my knees. If you don't like 'em swap in some downtube shifters. You can probably sell the bar cons for more than some downtubes will cost you or find someone who wants to swap.
> Ultimately though if you don't love your LHT sell it and move on. Life is too short to ride a bike you hate. Just be aware if you are shopping for another touring bike you are going to end up with another shade of the same type of bike. If you don't actually want to do much touring maybe you just need a cyclocross bike that can carry a couple light panniers or pull a 2 wheel trailer for the odd tour.
> > After reading countless favorable reviews, I bought myself a new LHT
> > about a year and a half ago, with the intention of using it for
> > touring. Never having toured before, I accepted the "wisdom" that this
> > is what a touring bike should be like. Now though, I'm not so sure...
> > I have toured with it and enjoyed my trip thoroughly, but I feel that
> > the bike made me work a lot harder than was necessary. The bike is so
> > heavy it seems absurd. Maybe that is not a big deal for a larger
> > person, but the extra weight made the bike very difficult to handle
> > when I wasn't on it. It seemed to relish attacking my calves and
> > achilles tendons at every opportunity, savagely gouging me with
> > whatever sharp piece was nearest unprotected flesh.
> > And what's up with the bar-end shifters? Sharp turns bumped them into
> > my knees. This didn't look like a smart place to put shifters, and
> > it's not. Why not the down tube?
> > Worse than these design flaws, rust is showing through the paint in
> > several places. This started before the bike had spent a single night
> > outside. I don't even keep it in a garage - it's right in my living
> > room! The bolts rusted immediately and badly, but I can replace those.
> > Can I actually be the only person in the world who does not love this
> > bike? What am I missing here?
> I suspect that one significant source of my problems is that I am much > smaller than the "average" person bike designers have in mind. It > seemed that Surly had taken rider size into consideration far more > than most manufacturers, offering a wider range of frame sizes than is > typical, and even using smaller wheels on the smaller sizes, so I > thought that this would be a good choice for me. My bike is a stock 50 > cm, plus fenders and rack, and weighs almost 30 lbs. Loaded for > touring brought that up to 70 lbs. I am 5' 2" and weigh 92 lbs, so > every bit of extra weight is probably a bigger deal for me than > considerations of strength, flex, and sturdiness that might be > priorities for someone larger. I have small feet, so heel clearance is > not a significant issue either. I'm thinking now that these factors > add up to me not needing a "touring" frame at all. > There aren't sharp parts of the frame, but the heaviness of the loaded > bike made it really hard for me to control it while walking it around. > I was attacked by the pedals, the chain ring, and the fenders and > their malicious sharpened mounting hardware. Probably adding low front > racks could have helped distribute my load better, but that would have > added even MORE weight with the additional racks and panniers. > I am trying to decide whether I should replace the troublesome parts > or whether the frame itself is the root of the problem. Thanks for all > the helpful suggestions and support.
> On Apr 17, 11:07 am, Vik Banerjee <three...@gmail.com> wrote: >> I've owned a lot of touring bikes and the LHT is not a particularly heavy/stiff one. It's right about the middle of the pack in that regard which is where most people want/need a touring bike to be. If you are extremely heavy and/or carry a ton of gear the LHT might be too flexy/light for you. OTOH if you are extremely light and carry next to nothing the LHT might be too much touring bike. That aspect comes down to selecting the right bike for your needs. Obviously the LHT isn't going to be the perfect bike for everyone and equally obviously a lot of people love it.
>> The biggest single performance improvement you can make with any bike is efficient tires. It's an easy upgrade and just like most cars most bikes are sold with low cost low performance tires. Every time a friend complains about their bike I get them to swap to a fast tire [generally wider and supple] which they love because they are fast and comfortable to ride.
>> I love bar end shifters and never have them bump my knees. If you don't like 'em swap in some downtube shifters. You can probably sell the bar cons for more than some downtubes will cost you or find someone who wants to swap.
>> Ultimately though if you don't love your LHT sell it and move on. Life is too short to ride a bike you hate. Just be aware if you are shopping for another touring bike you are going to end up with another shade of the same type of bike. If you don't actually want to do much touring maybe you just need a cyclocross bike that can carry a couple light panniers or pull a 2 wheel trailer for the odd tour.
>>> After reading countless favorable reviews, I bought myself a new LHT >>> about a year and a half ago, with the intention of using it for >>> touring. Never having toured before, I accepted the "wisdom" that this >>> is what a touring bike should be like. Now though, I'm not so sure... >>> I have toured with it and enjoyed my trip thoroughly, but I feel that >>> the bike made me work a lot harder than was necessary. The bike is so >>> heavy it seems absurd. Maybe that is not a big deal for a larger >>> person, but the extra weight made the bike very difficult to handle >>> when I wasn't on it. It seemed to relish attacking my calves and >>> achilles tendons at every opportunity, savagely gouging me with >>> whatever sharp piece was nearest unprotected flesh. >>> And what's up with the bar-end shifters? Sharp turns bumped them into >>> my knees. This didn't look like a smart place to put shifters, and >>> it's not. Why not the down tube? >>> Worse than these design flaws, rust is showing through the paint in >>> several places. This started before the bike had spent a single night >>> outside. I don't even keep it in a garage - it's right in my living >>> room! The bolts rusted immediately and badly, but I can replace those. >>> Can I actually be the only person in the world who does not love this >>> bike? What am I missing here?
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Surly Long Haul Trucker & Cross-Check Owners Group" group. > To post to this group, send email to surlylht@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to surlylht+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/surlylht?hl=en.
Thanks for the followup! If you're carrying 40 lbs. of gear with only a rear rack, and you yourself are only 92 lbs., you're going to have an unbalanced bike. I find that kind of weight handles better if it's distributed all around the bike.
The Tubus Duo front rack is expensive but it is both light and sturdy. Depending on which rear rack you have, you might consider replacing it with a Tubus Logo rear rack, which is also lightweight and sturdy. Both of those would permit you to hang your panniers low (the Logo has a rail for low-riding rear panniers), and use four small panniers instead of two large ones. I suspect that would make a big difference in the handling.
I always try to walk my bike on the left side when touring, to keep out of the way of the chainring; I have had too many temporary chainring tattoos, and I've come close to getting a permanent scar! The fender mounting hardware can be taken care of by trimming the stays to the right length with a powerful wire cutter or a Dremel tool, then getting rubber tips from the hardware store (the elegant solution) or covering the end with a few turns of electrical tape (ugly but cheap). The pedals are hard to deal with, though, short of getting eggbeaters (or folding pedals).
You could probably get away with a lighter bike, but I bet you would find the LHT a lot more comfortable if you moved the shifters (as John B. said, you could even use the bar end levers on the down tubes, as long as the crooked look doesn't bother you) and got a lighter set of wheels and tires. Someone your weight doesn't need wheels as strong as a fat guy like me needs. If I were in your shoes, I'd call Peter White and ask him to build you a set of wheels. He has a reputation for being grumpy; I prefer to think of him as brusque and opinionated, but he knows his business, stocks quality parts, and does good work. If you don't keep the LHT, you could use the wheels on another bike, or sell them to someone else who wants a light touring wheelset for a 26" LHT.
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 7:14 PM, rh <rhmana...@gmail.com> wrote: > I suspect that one significant source of my problems is that I am much > smaller than the "average" person bike designers have in mind. It > seemed that Surly had taken rider size into consideration far more > than most manufacturers, offering a wider range of frame sizes than is > typical, and even using smaller wheels on the smaller sizes, so I > thought that this would be a good choice for me. My bike is a stock 50 > cm, plus fenders and rack, and weighs almost 30 lbs. Loaded for > touring brought that up to 70 lbs. I am 5' 2" and weigh 92 lbs, so > every bit of extra weight is probably a bigger deal for me than > considerations of strength, flex, and sturdiness that might be > priorities for someone larger. I have small feet, so heel clearance is > not a significant issue either. I'm thinking now that these factors > add up to me not needing a "touring" frame at all. > There aren't sharp parts of the frame, but the heaviness of the loaded > bike made it really hard for me to control it while walking it around. > I was attacked by the pedals, the chain ring, and the fenders and > their malicious sharpened mounting hardware. Probably adding low front > racks could have helped distribute my load better, but that would have > added even MORE weight with the additional racks and panniers. > I am trying to decide whether I should replace the troublesome parts > or whether the frame itself is the root of the problem. Thanks for all > the helpful suggestions and support.
> On Apr 17, 11:07 am, Vik Banerjee <three...@gmail.com> wrote: >> I've owned a lot of touring bikes and the LHT is not a particularly heavy/stiff one. It's right about the middle of the pack in that regard which is where most people want/need a touring bike to be. If you are extremely heavy and/or carry a ton of gear the LHT might be too flexy/light for you. OTOH if you are extremely light and carry next to nothing the LHT might be too much touring bike. That aspect comes down to selecting the right bike for your needs. Obviously the LHT isn't going to be the perfect bike for everyone and equally obviously a lot of people love it.
>> The biggest single performance improvement you can make with any bike is efficient tires. It's an easy upgrade and just like most cars most bikes are sold with low cost low performance tires. Every time a friend complains about their bike I get them to swap to a fast tire [generally wider and supple] which they love because they are fast and comfortable to ride.
>> I love bar end shifters and never have them bump my knees. If you don't like 'em swap in some downtube shifters. You can probably sell the bar cons for more than some downtubes will cost you or find someone who wants to swap.
>> Ultimately though if you don't love your LHT sell it and move on. Life is too short to ride a bike you hate. Just be aware if you are shopping for another touring bike you are going to end up with another shade of the same type of bike. If you don't actually want to do much touring maybe you just need a cyclocross bike that can carry a couple light panniers or pull a 2 wheel trailer for the odd tour.
>> > After reading countless favorable reviews, I bought myself a new LHT >> > about a year and a half ago, with the intention of using it for >> > touring. Never having toured before, I accepted the "wisdom" that this >> > is what a touring bike should be like. Now though, I'm not so sure... >> > I have toured with it and enjoyed my trip thoroughly, but I feel that >> > the bike made me work a lot harder than was necessary. The bike is so >> > heavy it seems absurd. Maybe that is not a big deal for a larger >> > person, but the extra weight made the bike very difficult to handle >> > when I wasn't on it. It seemed to relish attacking my calves and >> > achilles tendons at every opportunity, savagely gouging me with >> > whatever sharp piece was nearest unprotected flesh. >> > And what's up with the bar-end shifters? Sharp turns bumped them into >> > my knees. This didn't look like a smart place to put shifters, and >> > it's not. Why not the down tube? >> > Worse than these design flaws, rust is showing through the paint in >> > several places. This started before the bike had spent a single night >> > outside. I don't even keep it in a garage - it's right in my living >> > room! The bolts rusted immediately and badly, but I can replace those. >> > Can I actually be the only person in the world who does not love this >> > bike? What am I missing here?
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Surly Long Haul Trucker & Cross-Check Owners Group" group. > To post to this group, send email to surlylht@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to surlylht+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/surlylht?hl=en.
Having previously owned a Trek 520 I´d say that this bike might have the qualities you haven´t found at the LHT. You can get a smaller frame and still have the 700c configuration. Thin tubes, sloping (touring) geometry and (reasonably) quality components.
Of course you´ll pay an extra Dollar for that.
That said I must say the LHT is a much better bike than the 520. Better bang for the buck and fits me perfectly.
----- Original Message ----- From: rh To: Surly Long Haul Trucker & Cross-Check Owners Group Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 2:14 PM Subject: [SurlyLHT-CC] Re: I think maybe I hate my LHT...
I suspect that one significant source of my problems is that I am much smaller than the "average" person bike designers have in mind. It seemed that Surly had taken rider size into consideration far more than most manufacturers, offering a wider range of frame sizes than is typical, and even using smaller wheels on the smaller sizes, so I thought that this would be a good choice for me. My bike is a stock 50 cm, plus fenders and rack, and weighs almost 30 lbs. Loaded for touring brought that up to 70 lbs. I am 5' 2" and weigh 92 lbs, so every bit of extra weight is probably a bigger deal for me than considerations of strength, flex, and sturdiness that might be priorities for someone larger. I have small feet, so heel clearance is not a significant issue either. I'm thinking now that these factors add up to me not needing a "touring" frame at all. There aren't sharp parts of the frame, but the heaviness of the loaded bike made it really hard for me to control it while walking it around. I was attacked by the pedals, the chain ring, and the fenders and their malicious sharpened mounting hardware. Probably adding low front racks could have helped distribute my load better, but that would have added even MORE weight with the additional racks and panniers. I am trying to decide whether I should replace the troublesome parts or whether the frame itself is the root of the problem. Thanks for all the helpful suggestions and support.
On Apr 17, 11:07 am, Vik Banerjee <three...@gmail.com> wrote: > I've owned a lot of touring bikes and the LHT is not a particularly heavy/stiff one. It's right about the middle of the pack in that regard which is where most people want/need a touring bike to be. If you are extremely heavy and/or carry a ton of gear the LHT might be too flexy/light for you. OTOH if you are extremely light and carry next to nothing the LHT might be too much touring bike. That aspect comes down to selecting the right bike for your needs. Obviously the LHT isn't going to be the perfect bike for everyone and equally obviously a lot of people love it.
> The biggest single performance improvement you can make with any bike is efficient tires. It's an easy upgrade and just like most cars most bikes are sold with low cost low performance tires. Every time a friend complains about their bike I get them to swap to a fast tire [generally wider and supple] which they love because they are fast and comfortable to ride.
> I love bar end shifters and never have them bump my knees. If you don't like 'em swap in some downtube shifters. You can probably sell the bar cons for more than some downtubes will cost you or find someone who wants to swap.
> Ultimately though if you don't love your LHT sell it and move on. Life is too short to ride a bike you hate. Just be aware if you are shopping for another touring bike you are going to end up with another shade of the same type of bike. If you don't actually want to do much touring maybe you just need a cyclocross bike that can carry a couple light panniers or pull a 2 wheel trailer for the odd tour.
> > After reading countless favorable reviews, I bought myself a new LHT > > about a year and a half ago, with the intention of using it for > > touring. Never having toured before, I accepted the "wisdom" that this > > is what a touring bike should be like. Now though, I'm not so sure... > > I have toured with it and enjoyed my trip thoroughly, but I feel that > > the bike made me work a lot harder than was necessary. The bike is so > > heavy it seems absurd. Maybe that is not a big deal for a larger > > person, but the extra weight made the bike very difficult to handle > > when I wasn't on it. It seemed to relish attacking my calves and > > achilles tendons at every opportunity, savagely gouging me with > > whatever sharp piece was nearest unprotected flesh. > > And what's up with the bar-end shifters? Sharp turns bumped them into > > my knees. This didn't look like a smart place to put shifters, and > > it's not. Why not the down tube? > > Worse than these design flaws, rust is showing through the paint in > > several places. This started before the bike had spent a single night > > outside. I don't even keep it in a garage - it's right in my living > > room! The bolts rusted immediately and badly, but I can replace those. > > Can I actually be the only person in the world who does not love this > > bike? What am I missing here?
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Surly Long Haul Trucker & Cross-Check Owners Group" group. To post to this group, send email to surlylht@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to surlylht+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/surlylht?hl=en.
If you don't like the bar end shifters, you can easily remove the pod part and mount just the shifter on the down tube boss. It looks a bit strange (due to the bend in the shift lever), but works just like any downtube shifter.
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 11:12 PM, rh <rhmana...@gmail.com> wrote: > After reading countless favorable reviews, I bought myself a new LHT > about a year and a half ago, with the intention of using it for > touring. Never having toured before, I accepted the "wisdom" that this > is what a touring bike should be like. Now though, I'm not so sure... > I have toured with it and enjoyed my trip thoroughly, but I feel that > the bike made me work a lot harder than was necessary. The bike is so > heavy it seems absurd. Maybe that is not a big deal for a larger > person, but the extra weight made the bike very difficult to handle > when I wasn't on it. It seemed to relish attacking my calves and > achilles tendons at every opportunity, savagely gouging me with > whatever sharp piece was nearest unprotected flesh. > And what's up with the bar-end shifters? Sharp turns bumped them into > my knees. This didn't look like a smart place to put shifters, and > it's not. Why not the down tube? > Worse than these design flaws, rust is showing through the paint in > several places. This started before the bike had spent a single night > outside. I don't even keep it in a garage - it's right in my living > room! The bolts rusted immediately and badly, but I can replace those. > Can I actually be the only person in the world who does not love this > bike? What am I missing here?
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Surly Long Haul Trucker & Cross-Check Owners Group" group. > To post to this group, send email to surlylht@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > surlylht+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/surlylht?hl=en.
> If you don't like the bar end shifters, you can easily remove the pod part and mount just the shifter on the down tube boss. It looks a bit strange (due to the bend in the shift lever), but works just like any downtube shifter.
> Eric Daume > Dublin, OH
> On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 11:12 PM, rh <rhmana...@gmail.com> wrote: > After reading countless favorable reviews, I bought myself a new LHT > about a year and a half ago, with the intention of using it for > touring. Never having toured before, I accepted the "wisdom" that this > is what a touring bike should be like. Now though, I'm not so sure... > I have toured with it and enjoyed my trip thoroughly, but I feel that > the bike made me work a lot harder than was necessary. The bike is so > heavy it seems absurd. Maybe that is not a big deal for a larger > person, but the extra weight made the bike very difficult to handle > when I wasn't on it. It seemed to relish attacking my calves and > achilles tendons at every opportunity, savagely gouging me with > whatever sharp piece was nearest unprotected flesh. > And what's up with the bar-end shifters? Sharp turns bumped them into > my knees. This didn't look like a smart place to put shifters, and > it's not. Why not the down tube? > Worse than these design flaws, rust is showing through the paint in > several places. This started before the bike had spent a single night > outside. I don't even keep it in a garage - it's right in my living > room! The bolts rusted immediately and badly, but I can replace those. > Can I actually be the only person in the world who does not love this > bike? What am I missing here?
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Surly Long Haul Trucker & Cross-Check Owners Group" group. > To post to this group, send email to surlylht@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to surlylht+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/surlylht?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Surly Long Haul Trucker & Cross-Check Owners Group" group. > To post to this group, send email to surlylht@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to surlylht+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/surlylht?hl=en.
Oh my, you ARE small. Yes, that might be the source of some of your
issues. On the otherhand, you would probably have similar problems
trying to manhandle any heavily loaded bike, not just an LHT. In
fact, a bike with "normal" geometry - a higher BB (and center of
gravity) and a shorter wheelbase - would be even harder to control
with the same load. And supposing that your bike was 20 lbs instead
of 30 lbs, that's still only ten pounds difference. Is 60 lbs that
much easier to push around than 70? As I said before, rust is a
concern on any steel bike, not just LHTs. And if your fender mounting
hardware is sticking out, than by all means trim the stays with a
hacksaw. Again, you'd have that issue with any bike. Same with pokey
pedals. So it seems to me that your problem isn't with the LHT, per
se. If you like your LHT except for the frustrations you listed, all
the suggestions here would fix your issues. New tires, different
shifter setup, different pedals, better distributed load (or get a
trailer), trimmed fender stays, and you're all set. But if there's
still something else - something that maybe isn't quite tangible or
quantifiable - than you probably need a new bike. I think Vik is
totally right - life is way too short to ride a bike that you don't
totally love.
On Apr 17, 1:14 pm, rh <rhmana...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I suspect that one significant source of my problems is that I am much
> smaller than the "average" person bike designers have in mind. It
> seemed that Surly had taken rider size into consideration far more
> than most manufacturers, offering a wider range of frame sizes than is
> typical, and even using smaller wheels on the smaller sizes, so I
> thought that this would be a good choice for me. My bike is a stock 50
> cm, plus fenders and rack, and weighs almost 30 lbs. Loaded for
> touring brought that up to 70 lbs. I am 5' 2" and weigh 92 lbs, so
> every bit of extra weight is probably a bigger deal for me than
> considerations of strength, flex, and sturdiness that might be
> priorities for someone larger. I have small feet, so heel clearance is
> not a significant issue either. I'm thinking now that these factors
> add up to me not needing a "touring" frame at all.
> There aren't sharp parts of the frame, but the heaviness of the loaded
> bike made it really hard for me to control it while walking it around.
> I was attacked by the pedals, the chain ring, and the fenders and
> their malicious sharpened mounting hardware. Probably adding low front
> racks could have helped distribute my load better, but that would have
> added even MORE weight with the additional racks and panniers.
> I am trying to decide whether I should replace the troublesome parts
> or whether the frame itself is the root of the problem. Thanks for all
> the helpful suggestions and support.
> On Apr 17, 11:07 am, Vik Banerjee <three...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've owned a lot of touring bikes and the LHT is not a particularly heavy/stiff one. It's right about the middle of the pack in that regard which is where most people want/need a touring bike to be. If you are extremely heavy and/or carry a ton of gear the LHT might be too flexy/light for you. OTOH if you are extremely light and carry next to nothing the LHT might be too much touring bike. That aspect comes down to selecting the right bike for your needs. Obviously the LHT isn't going to be the perfect bike for everyone and equally obviously a lot of people love it.
> > The biggest single performance improvement you can make with any bike is efficient tires. It's an easy upgrade and just like most cars most bikes are sold with low cost low performance tires. Every time a friend complains about their bike I get them to swap to a fast tire [generally wider and supple] which they love because they are fast and comfortable to ride.
> > I love bar end shifters and never have them bump my knees. If you don't like 'em swap in some downtube shifters. You can probably sell the bar cons for more than some downtubes will cost you or find someone who wants to swap.
> > Ultimately though if you don't love your LHT sell it and move on. Life is too short to ride a bike you hate. Just be aware if you are shopping for another touring bike you are going to end up with another shade of the same type of bike. If you don't actually want to do much touring maybe you just need a cyclocross bike that can carry a couple light panniers or pull a 2 wheel trailer for the odd tour.
> > > After reading countless favorable reviews, I bought myself a new LHT
> > > about a year and a half ago, with the intention of using it for
> > > touring. Never having toured before, I accepted the "wisdom" that this
> > > is what a touring bike should be like. Now though, I'm not so sure...
> > > I have toured with it and enjoyed my trip thoroughly, but I feel that
> > > the bike made me work a lot harder than was necessary. The bike is so
> > > heavy it seems absurd. Maybe that is not a big deal for a larger
> > > person, but the extra weight made the bike very difficult to handle
> > > when I wasn't on it. It seemed to relish attacking my calves and
> > > achilles tendons at every opportunity, savagely gouging me with
> > > whatever sharp piece was nearest unprotected flesh.
> > > And what's up with the bar-end shifters? Sharp turns bumped them into
> > > my knees. This didn't look like a smart place to put shifters, and
> > > it's not. Why not the down tube?
> > > Worse than these design flaws, rust is showing through the paint in
> > > several places. This started before the bike had spent a single night
> > > outside. I don't even keep it in a garage - it's right in my living
> > > room! The bolts rusted immediately and badly, but I can replace those.
> > > Can I actually be the only person in the world who does not love this
> > > bike? What am I missing here?
I wore out the stock rims this spring. I ordered a set from Peter White and am blown away by what he recommended and built. Wheels are built around Velocity rims and hubs laced with Wheelsmith spokes. I've put about 100 miles on them and it's an entirely different bike. Feels like it climbs much easier, snappier acceleration, and a smoother ride. I'm using the same Gatorskin 28s and tubes that I had on the stock rims. The new rims are lighter dropping about 1.25 pounds from the overall weight and I don't think that's a huge amount but it's where the weight is located that matters - out on the largest parts that spin. I've thought about lighter cranks, pedals, chain rings, etc. Try to reduce the weight on stuff that rotates makes more sense to me than buying a lighter frame. Well, loosing body weight is first then things that rotate.
On Tuesday, April 17, 2012, Eric Daume <ericda...@gmail.com> wrote: > If you don't like the bar end shifters, you can easily remove the pod
part and mount just the shifter on the down tube boss. It looks a bit strange (due to the bend in the shift lever), but works just like any downtube shifter.
> On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 11:12 PM, rh <rhmana...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> After reading countless favorable reviews, I bought myself a new LHT >> about a year and a half ago, with the intention of using it for >> touring. Never having toured before, I accepted the "wisdom" that this >> is what a touring bike should be like. Now though, I'm not so sure... >> I have toured with it and enjoyed my trip thoroughly, but I feel that >> the bike made me work a lot harder than was necessary. The bike is so >> heavy it seems absurd. Maybe that is not a big deal for a larger >> person, but the extra weight made the bike very difficult to handle >> when I wasn't on it. It seemed to relish attacking my calves and >> achilles tendons at every opportunity, savagely gouging me with >> whatever sharp piece was nearest unprotected flesh. >> And what's up with the bar-end shifters? Sharp turns bumped them into >> my knees. This didn't look like a smart place to put shifters, and >> it's not. Why not the down tube? >> Worse than these design flaws, rust is showing through the paint in >> several places. This started before the bike had spent a single night >> outside. I don't even keep it in a garage - it's right in my living >> room! The bolts rusted immediately and badly, but I can replace those. >> Can I actually be the only person in the world who does not love this >> bike? What am I missing here?
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Surly Long Haul Trucker & Cross-Check Owners Group" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to surlylht@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
Did you get a bike fitting measurement before you bought this size? If you have the wrong size you'll never get to like this or any bike. I just got mine and the jury is out whether I'll like the LHT but we'll see. Move the shifters to another location like I did using the Paul thumbies: http://www.universalcycles.com/search.php?q=thumbies. I also could not get used to the drop style handlebar and the the groping around for the shifters. This adapter put the shifters on top next to my thumbs (duh!) on my Jeff Jones H Bar, which favors upright riding than being hunched over.
On Monday, April 16, 2012 8:12:51 PM UTC-7, rh wrote:
> After reading countless favorable reviews, I bought myself a new LHT > about a year and a half ago, with the intention of using it for > touring. Never having toured before, I accepted the "wisdom" that this > is what a touring bike should be like. Now though, I'm not so sure... > I have toured with it and enjoyed my trip thoroughly, but I feel that > the bike made me work a lot harder than was necessary. The bike is so > heavy it seems absurd. Maybe that is not a big deal for a larger > person, but the extra weight made the bike very difficult to handle > when I wasn't on it. It seemed to relish attacking my calves and > achilles tendons at every opportunity, savagely gouging me with > whatever sharp piece was nearest unprotected flesh. > And what's up with the bar-end shifters? Sharp turns bumped them into > my knees. This didn't look like a smart place to put shifters, and > it's not. Why not the down tube? > Worse than these design flaws, rust is showing through the paint in > several places. This started before the bike had spent a single night > outside. I don't even keep it in a garage - it's right in my living > room! The bolts rusted immediately and badly, but I can replace those. > Can I actually be the only person in the world who does not love this > bike? What am I missing here?
I've ridden most of the models of touring bikes available from the
major manufactuers, Surly LHT, Jamis Aurora, Trek 520, as well as the
Crosscheck. All feel quite similar with the CC being a little quicker.
I don't think your problem is with the weight of the LHT. I think it's
just the total load of the bike against your stature. I would suggest
you try lightening the overall load, lowering the center of gravity
as well as balancing the load. Look into which of your gear you can
drop or get a lighter version of. If you can afford lighter
components, consider that, but you don't want to sacrifice
durability.
On Apr 18, 12:11 am, Mark Schoonover <mark.schoono...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I wore out the stock rims this spring. I ordered a set from Peter White and
> am blown away by what he recommended and built. Wheels are built around
> Velocity rims and hubs laced with Wheelsmith spokes. I've put about 100
> miles on them and it's an entirely different bike. Feels like it climbs
> much easier, snappier acceleration, and a smoother ride. I'm using the same
> Gatorskin 28s and tubes that I had on the stock rims. The new rims are
> lighter dropping about 1.25 pounds from the overall weight and I don't
> think that's a huge amount but it's where the weight is located that
> matters - out on the largest parts that spin. I've thought about lighter
> cranks, pedals, chain rings, etc. Try to reduce the weight on stuff that
> rotates makes more sense to me than buying a lighter frame. Well, loosing
> body weight is first then things that rotate.
> On Tuesday, April 17, 2012, Eric Daume <ericda...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > If you don't like the bar end shifters, you can easily remove the pod
> part and mount just the shifter on the down tube boss. It looks a bit
> strange (due to the bend in the shift lever), but works just like any
> downtube shifter.
> > Eric Daume
> > Dublin, OH
> > On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 11:12 PM, rh <rhmana...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> After reading countless favorable reviews, I bought myself a new LHT
> >> about a year and a half ago, with the intention of using it for
> >> touring. Never having toured before, I accepted the "wisdom" that this
> >> is what a touring bike should be like. Now though, I'm not so sure...
> >> I have toured with it and enjoyed my trip thoroughly, but I feel that
> >> the bike made me work a lot harder than was necessary. The bike is so
> >> heavy it seems absurd. Maybe that is not a big deal for a larger
> >> person, but the extra weight made the bike very difficult to handle
> >> when I wasn't on it. It seemed to relish attacking my calves and
> >> achilles tendons at every opportunity, savagely gouging me with
> >> whatever sharp piece was nearest unprotected flesh.
> >> And what's up with the bar-end shifters? Sharp turns bumped them into
> >> my knees. This didn't look like a smart place to put shifters, and
> >> it's not. Why not the down tube?
> >> Worse than these design flaws, rust is showing through the paint in
> >> several places. This started before the bike had spent a single night
> >> outside. I don't even keep it in a garage - it's right in my living
> >> room! The bolts rusted immediately and badly, but I can replace those.
> >> Can I actually be the only person in the world who does not love this
> >> bike? What am I missing here?
> >> --
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> > --
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>And what's up with the bar-end shifters? Sharp turns bumped them into
>my knees. This didn't look like a smart place to put shifters, and
>it's not. Why not the down tube?
Just to dogpile on, I wouldn't call bar-end shifters a design flaw.
In fact, I like them so much that I've ended up installing them on
every bike I've ever really loved.
That said, I agree with the others that they shouldn't be hitting your
knees. I think a bike fit (whether professional or just with the help
of a friend) and quick tires could make a world of difference for
you. You may need to replace parts like the stem, bars, or seatpost.
Complete bikes are sold with "fit" parts that work with average
bodies, but most of us aren't really average. You might benefit from
higher/lower/nearer/further bars, or greater/lesser offset on the seat
post.
The other big advantage of bar-end shifters over downtube shifters is
that it's really nice to be able to keep your hands on the bars when
you're on rough terrain/trails or fully loaded.
I also agree with the others about loading the bike. If you're
carrying 40lbs of gear, it really helps to move some weight to the
front. I defy any normal bike to run stably with all that weight on
two rear panniers.
Your low weight presents a different load than many other riders,
since the unloaded bike weighs about 30% of your weight. For
comparison, I'm 200lbs, and a stock LHT weighs about 15% of my weight--
I think I'd have significant difficulties maneuvering a bike that
weighed 65lbs unloaded. But touring-specific bikes with racks and
fenders don't get that much lighter than 30lbs. I think you'd be hard-
pressed to find a decked-out touring bike south of 27lbs without
spending more money than it's worth. Since you're putting a lot less
load on the bike than some folks, you might check out CX or randonneur
bikes, particularly in 26" or 650b sizes. If you're looking for a
zippier bike that can still handle loads, these might be the ticket.
If you're concerned about being able to push the bike around, a BOB
trailer will not make this easier. BOB trailers are really nice when
you're actually riding, but a bit of a pain any time else, and Bob
help you if you need to take public transportation.
Howdy, I have a difficult relationship with my lht too. Hate is a
strong word, but sometimes I feel it! I read so many glowing reviews
and thought that's it! I have been reading more and more about people
having issues which you are experiencing. I am a petite woman and I
think it is just too big and overbuilt for me. My lht is light and
not heavy when I lift it up, put it in the back of a truck etc, but
when riding, oh it feels heavy. The tubes are oversized and it is
definitely designed for heavy loaded touring. The smaller frames also
have design issues that need more than just smaller wheels to sort
out. I was advised to get a lighter bike that can handle some weight
or go custom. I also have a problem where it gets unstable when
loaded with groceries, work gear and such-nothing major and I get
scared going down hills! I do not like the ride, I have tried
different tires, different handlebars. It has been my daily ride for
a few years now and I am used to it, but so many mixed feelings...
I was getting jabbed by the bar end shifters too, but changed
handlebars. It might be a small bike issue. There are vintage bar
end shifters with short knobby levers that might work better for you.
I am so used to them that I spent $$ on a Jtek bar end shifter for an
internal geared hub!
Yes, rust. I recently have been overhauling my bike and spiffing it
up and was horrified by the amount of rust. I keep my bike inside,
but the road crews just love magnesium chloride.
On the flip side, it's a solid bike, handles different roads, trails
etc well, the parts have held up well and people think you're cool.
I have a vintage trek 420 sports touring frame that is so much lighter
than the lht frame and will build it up and see how it compares. Plus
it is lugged with threaded headset-yay! I do know what you mean
about having trouble handling the bike when walking it etc, so it's
not just in your head or a matter of walking on the left sice. The
front end is super squirrelly. I have small feet, so overlap is a
nonissue. I would say you ought to look at lighter versatile bikes.
Even if you tour, you could get away with it on a lighter speedier
bike. I have toured on super crap bikes and it's been fine. Sadly, I
have not had a chance to take the lht on very long rides or big tours,
but actually would not want to because I find it unstable when loaded
and very heavy/suggish.
I do wish I had been steered towards(ha ha ha ahem...) the crosscheck,
or something else.
I was tired made a blanket comment....it's not that I do not like the
ride at all. I have been riding it for over two years and is a pretty
good ride compared to some bikes, but just does not work for me.
I think it is because the LHT is not WSD or Women Specific Design, The LHT is a standard Bike made basically for men it needs to be tweaked in various areas .Like smaller Brake Levers, different Handlebars,different frame configuration to suit women. All of these complaints are coming from women.
Surly needs to design Women Specific Design frames exclusively for women. A lot of Bike manufacturers have wsd and women can usually go to their LBS and get specifically fitted for their new Bikes ,therin is the problem.
On 20 April 2012 00:10, Heather <moondr...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> I was tired made a blanket comment....it's not that I do not like the > ride at all. I have been riding it for over two years and is a pretty > good ride compared to some bikes, but just does not work for me.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Surly Long Haul Trucker & Cross-Check Owners Group" group. > To post to this group, send email to surlylht@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > surlylht+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/surlylht?hl=en.
Really sorry to hear about the problems your having.
Lots of good advice here, though sometimes it just doesnt ' gel ' for
some. I have a freind who raves about his bike and judging by the
parts on it it should add up to one great riding sum, but for me, it
was a nice if uninspiring ride. Each to their own I beleive. My two
cents for what its worth is with regard the sizing. I myself am 5' 4''
and weigh 54kilo, which is I think around 119lbs and ride a 46cm LHT,
and was wondering if the 50cm you are riding is maybe not a bit on the
large side, especially if all the weight is at the rear and high up.
Just a thought.
Best of luck with sorting it, be it a fix of the LHT or a new bike. It
doesnt matter what you ride so long as you are happy riding it.
WSD is a myth. I'm a personal trainer. People come in all different shapes and sizes within both genders. It's just a way for bike companies to try to appeal to women. The only thing womens specific is the way they try to setup color schemes! Now with that said, yes, this is clearly a fit issue. The OP is very petite and the fact that she is loading that much weight and has it unbalanced is the problem. Also, if the bar ends are hitting your knees when your turning, your 1. going to slow, there is no way you could turn handlebars far enough for that to be an issue at any reasonable rate of speed and 2. you probably have a positioning issue with the bike. OP you should post up some pics of yourself on the bike for us to see.
On Thursday, April 19, 2012 11:57:02 PM UTC-4, john p wrote:
> I think it is because the LHT is not WSD or Women Specific Design, The LHT > is a standard Bike made basically for men it needs to be tweaked in various > areas .Like smaller Brake Levers, different Handlebars,different frame > configuration to suit women. All of these complaints are coming from women.
> Surly needs to design Women Specific Design frames exclusively for women. > A lot of Bike manufacturers have wsd and women can usually go to their LBS > and get specifically fitted for their new Bikes ,therin is the problem.
> On 20 April 2012 00:10, Heather <moondr...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> I was tired made a blanket comment....it's not that I do not like the >> ride at all. I have been riding it for over two years and is a pretty >> good ride compared to some bikes, but just does not work for me.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Surly Long Haul Trucker & Cross-Check Owners Group" group. >> To post to this group, send email to surlylht@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> surlylht+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/surlylht?hl=en.
