{STPdog} Speak up for more dog parks?

[Jan Carr]

If you are willing to help the dog park cause by attending a hearing,
here’s your chance.

Starting May 19, Parks & Rec in St. Paul is holding a series of
meetings over the next couple of weeks to gather public opinion on
future directions. See copy of email below for schedule of hearings.

As far as dog parks are concerned, if enough people show up at each
hearing, it might have an impact on Mike Hahm, the new Director.

He would no doubt deny it, but in fact, he put the brakes on
deliberations about additional dog parks after we managed to include a
new off leash area in the master plan for Lilydale Regional Park.
Unfortunately, this dog park is still years in the future.

Here’s what you need to know:

Back in 2008, P&R did an elaborate “Vision Plan” that outlined a
future blueprint for the parks system, which endorsed the concept of
4-6 additional dog parks for St. Paul (page 55):

http://www.stpaul.gov/index.aspx?NID=2843

In this same year (March, 2008) Mayor Chris Coleman held a series of
listening sessions around the city, and the number 1 issue that came
up was the need for dog parks. He even did a video about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXhv5ISqPxg&feature=related

At the beginning of 2009 a task force was formed (under the auspices
of the Parks Commission) to study the dog park issue, but we were
specifically prohibited from considering sites for new dog parks.

See minutes from the March 2009 meeting:

http://www.stpaul.gov/DocumentView.aspx?DID=8885

If he says there is no money for dog parks these days, I would remind
him that 80-90% of potential users would be willing to pay a
reasonable permit fee if the revenues would be earmarked specifically
for building and maintaining the dog park system. This means that
other, non-dog-owning citizens would not have to pay for this amenity,
but it also means that in time, it would become a revenue generator
for the parks department.

WHY I AM NOT ATTENDING ANY OF THE HEARINGS:

In Mike Hahm’s view, I think I have become a pest when it comes to
speaking up for more dog parks in the city. If this initiative is
going to be re-energized, it will have to be a grass roots surge of
demand among the dog owners in St. Paul.

Thus, if all of you stay home, don’t expect to see any new dog parks
in the future (beyond Lilydale).




******************************************************************************
FROM: MIKE HAHM, Director of Parks and Rec, St. Paul

Notification of upcoming Parks and Recreation System Plan Community
Open Houses - All residents are encouraged to attend to help shape the
way Saint Paul Parks and Recreation will look in the future.

Dear Saint Paul Resident,


As you know very well, we are in challenging economic times. This has
no doubt affected your household budget, changed how you think about
home improvements or vacations, and possibly even made you adjust your
long-term plans.


I am also sure you understand that city government must do the same re-
assessment of its practices and facilities. I write to you today to
ask for your help.


Saint Paul's Parks and Recreation system must change. It is becoming
increasingly difficult to pay for the facilities we have, and many of
these facilities do not meet the needs of current park users. The
system can either change in an incremental, piecemeal way, or the
Parks and Recreation Department can plan the whole system for the
future. The Department has chosen to plan, in order to better meet
the needs of the whole city for decades to come.


I would like to invite you to join me, city staff, and your neighbors
in the creation of this system-wide plan. Please consider attending
any of the five planned community meetings listed below. At the
meeting, you will be asked to participate in a series of individual
and group activities. These will help the city understand community
perspectives on existing facilities, improvement priorities, the
geographic location of facilities, and how you recreate.


All the meetings will be held from 6:30 PM - 8:30 PM with a short
presentation at 7:15 PM. The dates and locations for the open houses
are:

May 19th - Oxford Community Center/Jimmy Lee Recreation Center, 270
Lexington Parkway North

May 24th - Wellstone Community Center/El Rio Vista Recreation Center,
179 Robie Street East

May 26th - Phalen Recreation Center, 1000 East Wheelock Parkway

June 3rd - North Dale Recreation Center, 1414 St. Albans Street
North

June 9th - Hillcrest Recreation Center, 1978 Ford Parkway


The content and activities will be the same at each of the meetings so
you can attend the one that best meets your schedule and location. If
you can't make any of the open houses, please give us your thoughts on-
line <http://www.stpaul.gov/index.aspx?nid=3845>


City staff and a hired consultant will use your input to shape a plan
for the future. A draft Park and Recreation System Plan will be
available for review on the web and in additional meetings to be held
in October and November.


I would like to thank you in advance for your attendance at one of our
open houses. We're working to plan the park and recreation system of
the future - and we want to make sure it's a system that works for
you. Your input is critical.


Mike Hahm, CPRP


Director, Saint Paul Parks and Recreation

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[Andrew Hine]

A few months ago I overheard a man in the Glockenspiel bemoaning an
"$18million dog park in Lilydale." I wonder how many other St.
Paulites are that ignorant?! No wonder it's such an uphill battle.

Keep in mind that the Xcel High Bridge land is not Parks & Rec
country. We should really get ahead of the game and produce a booklet
on "What A Dog Park Under The High Bridge Should/Will Look Like." The
wedge of land between Washington and the High Bridge is plenty big
enough for a "non-destination" dog park.

AMH
W 7th

> ***************************************************************************­***

[Kristin Rafferty]

Hey Andrew, Jan, or whoever else is reading this,

Hope it's okay I'm writing because I know sometimes people on this list get bugged with too many emails.  (HAD to throw out that disclaimer first.) 

As for the upcoming meetings, I WOULD totally go, but I'm going to be studying/researching the contemporary art scene in NYC for a few weeks.  I will try to convince my friend Ray (cc'ed on this email in case he's not already a subscriber) to go to some of the meetings on behalf of both of us. 

I also mentioned this on the Battle Creek Dog Park Facebook page (via a link to a blog I have about this NYC experience) that while in NYC I am planning to visit a couple of dog parks in New York City.  (Thanks Jan for the super helpful information on NYC dog parks.  For those unaware, Jan lived in NYC for many years with dogs.)  I plan to take photos and hopefully talk to some nice New Yorker dog park people to get the scoop on how it's done there.  Mostly I'm curious about things like if they are more progressive with getting things accomplished, how they manage with much less geographical space, and dog culture in a giant city where most residents not only don't have yards, but lack square footage in their living spaces. 

Aside from adding or approving more dog parks in the general Twin Cities Metro Area, as an artist I have a specific interest in things like functional public art (ie: the clean dog poop mailboxes) or perhaps even artistic agility courses for the dogs or anything fun and outside the box.  I know Jan has done some of this himself too with his beautiful bench designs and carpentry work.  Here is my little blog entry about local as well as NYC dog parks for those interested in what I wrote/posted (including some photos of Battle Creek). 

Thanks,
Kristin Rafferty

P.S.
I'm sure I'll get shunned for saying this, but I really don't understand why ST. PAUL in particular (Parks & Rec or council members from other districts other than my own) are being such sticks in the mud about this.  MINNEAPOLIS seems be to going full steam ahead with new dog parks such as one proposed in the Kingsfield neighborhood.  I know we St. Paulites like to poke fun at Minneapolis, but they DO at least have a number of dog parks even if they might be small and fee based.  At LEAST they get them approved.  And yes, I am one of those rare types who enjoys BOTH cities as I grew up in Minneapolis and currently LOVE living in St. Paul.

--
www.kristinrafferty.com

[debbie kenney]

As I have said before,  I spend the winters in Florida and there are probably 6 dog parks within a 10 mile radius of our house there.  The City of Clearwater just built a beautiful new one with a seperate agility course, a pond and beautiful trails.  It is not huge, some of them are only as big as a city block but they are fenced with water and poop bags available.  They are kept up well by users and park personnel.  There are no fees.  Florida is one of the worst states economically right now, and still, they have made this a priority.  I do not understand St. Paul's reluctance to build parks for people with dogs!!

Debbie Kenney

 

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Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 16:37:17 -0500
Subject: Re: {STPdog} Speak up for more dog parks?
From: raffert...@gmail.com
To: amh...@gmail.com
CC: stp...@googlegroups.com; n9...@hotmail.com

---

The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Get started.

[Jan Carr]

Andrew,

In case you didn’t know, the dog park at Lilydale is carrying a budget estimate of $120,000;  but for the life of me, I can’t figure out how they could spend that much.

As we saw this past spring, Lilydale is squarely in the flood plain, and it would not be very prudent to install a bunch of fancy/expensive amenities. Mainly it needs some inexpensive fencing that can easily be replaced after a flood.  

I don’t know what the exact number is, but they are spending big dollars on removing all the concrete debris left over from the demolition of the village and marina at Lilydale, which they intend to grind up on site and use as fill for the picnic shelter and new road  they are building near Lake Pickerel.

I thought this was a great example of creative problem solving:  they need to clean up the site anyway, but instead of hauling it off, and then bringing in fill for the road/shelter, they figured out how to grind it right there and using all the concrete debris within the park.

However, none of this has anything to do with the cost of a dog park at Lilydale.  

As far as the Xcel High Bridge site is concerned, for those who don’t know, this is a 55 acre parcel where the old coal burning plant was located. Xcel wants to retain ownership of the property, but is willing to “lend” it to the city for various facilities,  one of which might be a smallish off leash dog park. Given its small size, It would be used mostly by people who live in the Upper Landing area.  

On 5/19/10 3:24 PM, "Andrew Hine" <amh...@gmail.com> wrote:

A few months ago I overheard a man in the Glockenspiel bemoaning an
"$18million dog park in Lilydale."  I wonder how many other St.
Paulites are that ignorant?!  No wonder it's such an uphill battle.

Keep in mind that the Xcel High Bridge land is not Parks & Rec
country.  We should really get ahead of the game and produce a booklet
on "What A Dog Park Under The High Bridge Should/Will Look Like."  The
wedge of land between Washington and the High Bridge is plenty big
enough for a "non-destination" dog park.

AMH
W 7th

[Nanette]

I want to say that I always try to make any meetings these folks put out. Unfortunately, I am up to my ears in homework right now and preparing for a study abroad trip to china. I'm gone for every one of the sessions. I'm trying to find friends who will go in my place, but I cannot promise anything.

I do hope that if you have not attended a meeting, are on this list, and can spare an evening for a very good cause. I beg you to go and represent me.

Good Luck everyone.

Nanette

--
“The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.” – Albert Einstein

[Jan Carr]

Debbie,

There are a couple of factors explaining why there has been so much foot dragging in St. Paul.

1) On a general level, when it comes to dog parks, some park officials across the country “get it” and others don’t. The top level managers in STP don’t get it — despite the fact the number of dog parks around the country have literally exploded in the past 2-3 years.

2) Some parks managers want to lead the pack, but the managers in STP are reactionary instead of visionary. That is, they won’t embrace a new recreational amenity until their constituents have risen en masse to support it.

That’s one of the reasons these kind of hearings are so important. They figure if folks show up to voice their support (or opposition) to park related issues, that shows they actually care about it.

I have been telling them for years that 39% of the households in St. Paul own dogs, but frankly, that doesn’t mean anything, unless a goodly number are willing to show up to voice their support for more dog parks at hearings of this type.   

On 5/19/10 10:11 PM, "debbie kenney" <kenn...@msn.com> wrote:

As I have said before,  I spend the winters in Florida and there are probably 6 dog parks within a 10 mile radius of our house there.  The City of Clearwater just built a beautiful new one with a seperate agility course, a pond and beautiful trails.  It is not huge, some of them are only as big as a city block but they are fenced with water and poop bags available.  They are kept up well by users and park personnel.  There are no fees.  Florida is one of the worst states economically right now, and still, they have made this a priority.  I do not understand St. Paul's reluctance to build parks for people with dogs!!

Debbie Kenney



 

[Lisa Ross]

I attended the first Parks & Rec meeting held last Wednesday night at the Jimmy Lee Rec Center and voiced the Dog Park Message.  I hope STPdog members will make it to each of the remaining 4 meetings. 

The meeting was actually quite fun and informal.  A significant portion of the time was focused on "playing" a game where each table of citizens got to allocate $$ for different park amenities.  Obviously that was one opportunity to make sure dog parks were included in the overall plan.  There was also a post-it board where you could write suggestions on index cards.  I used this opportunity to discuss a willingness of dog park users to pay a permit fee for dog parks if the fee actually went towards the creation and maintenance of the dog parks.  But most importantly, I spoke individually with members of the P&R finance staff and the "consultants" conducting the meetings about the importance of parks for people with dogs both before and after the formal agenda.

It was fun and easy.  I encourage all of you to attend one of the meetings.

 

Lisa S. Ross

---

From: Jan Carr <car...@comcast.net>
To: Debbie Kenney <kenn...@msn.com>
Cc: stp...@googlegroups.com; Raymond Carlson <n9...@hotmail.com>; Kristin Rafferty <raffert...@gmail.com>; Andrew Hine <amh...@gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, May 21, 2010 10:01:17 AM

Subject: Re: {STPdog} Speak up for more dog parks?

[Sarah Klawitter]

Thanks for sharing Lisa. 

I plan on attending the last meeting in Highland Park.

Sarah

[Siobhan Dugan]

Thanks so much for the report back, that's encouraging at least as to the process. I'll attend the West Side one at the Wellstone center this Monday since that's my neighborhood.

 Siobhán Dugan

 ps I've been organizing the Native Dogs of Ireland at the Irish Fair each year. I will forward the meeting times to them, cupl'a dozen and of the sort who might bite at this.

[Jan Carr]

Lisa,

Thanks for the “report”........................  about how many citizens attended altogether?  How many dog park people?

[Debby Filler]

I missed the meeting closest to my house, so I'll try to get to a different one. I've been to others in the past, though. They seem to like that "post-it" note method. Given how often it's been used, I have to wonder if they take the post-it notes down and just throw them away. It doesn't seem to actually result in anyone hearing us.

But - I'll go to one of the remaining meetings anyway, and I'll play the post-it note game once again. It will be interesting to play the budget game you mentioned.

Debby

[Richard Wilber]

To all STP members:   Nothing will be accomplished towards furthering off-leash Dogs Parks in St. Paul with a passive or "wait and see" approach. The only way the message is going to get across is if people do show up "on mass" at the open house meetings and make their views known. More people have to get involved and not wait for the "other guy" to do the work. In case anyone hasn't already concluded, the squeaky wheel does get the grease when it comes to the city. I agree that Jan Carr is probably viewed as a thorn in "their" side by the Parks people, but only because he has been so diligent in his efforts. If 25 or 50(?) or however many Stp people showed up as often as Jan does, it would show that there isn't just one "thorn" but many concerned and Taxpaying citizens who share the same views. Trust that it won't happen though, unless you act.   It would be a good idea to mention the fact (again and often) that if permit fees were charged and guarenteed to be dedicated to the dog park it would be self-sustaining and  not a buget issue.   Rich Wilber Union Park District Council Parks and Rec. Committee --- On Sat, 5/22/10, Jan Carr <car...@comcast.net> wrote: