The Tyranny of Super-Delegates
Keith L
The Tyranny of Super-Delegates
List of Democratic Party Super-Delegates
I think the Super-Delegate system is deplorable! And the Electoral College should be eliminated too! A system which takes decisions out of the hands of the public is not democracy!
KL
Joe
suspect they will in spite of safeguards. :)
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:47:09 -0500, Keith L <non...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>Time to stir the pot...
>
>The Tyranny of Super-Delegates
><http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/01/05/6189/>
>
>List of Democratic Party Super-Delegates
><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_%28United_States%29_superdelegates,_2008>
free....@gmail.com
> I think it's meant to keep the Dems from nominating a fool or a loser, yet I
> suspect they will in spite of safeguards. :)
>
> On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:47:09 -0500, Keith L <non...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >Time to stir the pot...
>
> >The Tyranny of Super-Delegates
> ><http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/01/05/6189/>
>
> >List of Democratic Party Super-Delegates
>
> >I think the Super-Delegate system is deplorable! And the Electoral
> >College should be eliminated too! A system which takes decisions out of
> >the hands of the public is not democracy!
>
> >KL
No argument out of me...the entire voting system is a mess. In
civilized societies they vote on Sunday, when most folks are off.
There are not 10 different methods of voting as we have. [heard this
morning that in our early agrarian society Tuesday was the best day
for farmers to get away for a couple of hours] tied right in why I
think daylight saving's time is so stupid with 3 shifts in lots of
places and streets lit up like a Xmas tree) No one I know can
explain the super delegates system and why they are not bound to vote
the popular vote of the states they come from.
This is not peculiar to one party. It is a
national embarrassment.
The amount of money that has to be raised.....that is so insane.
Someone posted in another group...and why do we always
think 'any' candidate is really going to do what tell you they are
going to do? (either party)
Why do we have a Congress that has it's hands tied on EVERY
subject? (any congress, not just this one)
I wish that we could vote folks out of office ,if they are not doing
their job....a "vote of no confidence" that they can do in other
countries. No need to have an impeachment, just fire their ass for
not performing.
Some of the super delegates are publicly announcing how they
are going to vote and that is good in another wise screwed up
situation.
I seem to recall after EVERY national election, folks talk
about voting reform and guess what they never touch it.because they
got where they want to be....a life time of benefits & perks out of
this world. Why upset the apple cart.
Eric S. Harris
> Time to stir the pot...
>
> The Tyranny of Super-Delegates
> <http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/01/05/6189/>
>
> List of Democratic Party Super-Delegates
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_%28United_States%29_superdelegates,_2008>
>
> I think the Super-Delegate system is deplorable! And the Electoral
> College should be eliminated too! A system which takes decisions out of
> the hands of the public is not democracy!
>
> KL
>
"Tyranny" is a bit of an exaggeration. A political party has chosen to
use a candidate selection process which you find far from optimal. Not
quite the same as arrests without warrants, property seized arbitrarily,
etc. (Take your pick: am I describing the reign of King George III, or
the current administration and its dozen predecessors?)
Given the party and the nature of the candidates likely to be selected
by this process (or any other one under serious consideration), it makes
no difference to me.
Ditto for the the other bi-partisan party.
There's no significant difference between any of the three candidates
who are most likely to be elected president, by the criteria that matter
to me.
"Criterion", really: the size and power of the federal government.
YMMV. -Eric
Eric S. Harris
> On Apr 28, 10:36 am, Joe <JoSc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>I think it's meant to keep the Dems from nominating a fool or a loser, yet I
>>suspect they will in spite of safeguards. :)
>>
>>On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:47:09 -0500, Keith L <non...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Time to stir the pot...
>>
>>>The Tyranny of Super-Delegates
>>><http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/01/05/6189/>
>>
>>>List of Democratic Party Super-Delegates
>>><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_%28United_States%29_sup...>
>>
>>>I think the Super-Delegate system is deplorable! And the Electoral
>>>College should be eliminated too! A system which takes decisions out of
>>>the hands of the public is not democracy!
>>
>>>KL
>
>
> No argument out of me...the entire voting system is a mess. In
> civilized societies they vote on Sunday, when most folks are off.
So? It take, what?, 30 minutes, typically? Less if you're an
[adjective deleted by poster before typing] straight-ticket voter. If
you can't squeeze 30 minutes out of your day to vote, maybe you're not
all that dedicated to the electoral process anyway, and your opinions
are probably worth even less than the typical voter's. (Who is not much
to brag about, by the way.)
> There are not 10 different methods of voting as we have.
Huh? Are you talking punch card versus the 9 others? We can blame the
bipartisans for this. I not only can, but will.
> No one I know can
> explain the super delegates system and why they are not bound to vote
> the popular vote of the states they come from.
I can help with part of that.
Political parties operate by the rules the parties choose. For some
reason, the Democrats chose this "super-delegate" approach, and them not
being bound by the popular vote. (Did the Republicans do it too, or
something like it? I'm mildly curious.)
You could try asking a Democratic party official. Your county election
board should be able to direct you to the appropriate person.
For St. Louis county, the page of party links is at
http://www.co.st-louis.mo.us/elections/LINKS.html and links for the
Democratic National Committee, the Missouri Democratic Party, and the
Democratic Central Committee of St. Louis County listed below:
http://www.democrats.org/index.html
http://www.missouridems.org/
http://www.stldems.com/
The national Democratic Party sets the rules for the presidential
ticket. The state party decides if they want to follow those rules (and
presumably attempts to get the state government to set Missouri's
election laws appropriately). The county party might be the most
responsive to a query.
Good luck. If you get an answer (or stonewalling or blather or
whatever) could you post the results here? I'm kinda curious myself.
> This is not peculiar to one party. It is a
> national embarrassment.
Given that the national political parties control their own rules by
which they select their ticket, and these are the two parties that write
the election laws for the states and the country as a whole, the
responsibility for this situation (good or bad or whatever) lies at
their doorsteps.
> The amount of money that has to be raised.....that is so insane.
But entirely understandable, even predictable some would say. After
all, the Congress has at its disposable all the property in the United
States.
There is no limit on the federal government's ability to take or limit
the owner's use of that property, other than the wisdom and integrity of
our elected and appointed officials -- and the lack of tolerance of the
people for that insufficient wisdom and integrity. (In other words,
damn' little.)
That's a lot of stuff ready to be sold to the highest bidder -- though
of course it's done for "the common good" or "for the children" or some
other blather, not because one group of citizens successfully lobbies
for the robbing of another group, for the first group's material or
emotional benefit. At least, they pretend it's for the common good or
the children or whatever -- and a lot of us play along with their
pretense -- or pretend to.
And that's not even considering the bossing (rather than robbing) of one
group of people for the material or emotional benefit of another group.
No actual confiscation or theft, just threats if you don't buy the
right shower head or toilet tank, or fail to have certain sorts of
quotas in your personnel practices, or whatever.
> Someone posted in another group...and why do we always
> think 'any' candidate is really going to do what tell you they are
> going to do? (either party)
As someone (Oscar Wilde?) said of second marriages: the triumph of hope
over experience.
Personally, I'd like to see candidates post performance bonds, which
would be forfeited if they fail to keep promises about specific actions
they would take (e.g. introduce a particular constitutional amendment,
veto tax increase legislation), or fail to attain specific results (get
a particular amendment out to the states, prevent tax increases).
Failing that, I'd like to see their supporters post such bonds on their
behalf -- or do the equivalent in wagers. (Hmmm. That's the way to
avoid potential wager problem -- express them as performance bonds
posted by the faithful supporters -- to be collected by the skeptical
opponents in the event of failure.)
> Why do we have a Congress that has it's hands tied on EVERY
> subject? (any congress, not just this one)
How are their hands tied? Who ties them? I don't see it. They are
free to do anything authorized by the U.S. Constitution
<http://www.nara.gov> -- and it seems, quite a lot that isn't. (See the
plumbing comments, above.)
> I wish that we could vote folks out of office ,if they are not doing
> their job....a "vote of no confidence" that they can do in other
> countries. No need to have an impeachment, just fire their ass for
> not performing.
I'm not sure that would help. After all, they win re-election an
amazing percentage of the time -- would recall elections work any
better? "Firing" somebody isn't much different from "deciding to now
renew their contract", after all.
> I seem to recall after EVERY national election, folks talk
> about voting reform and guess what they never touch it.because they
> got where they want to be....a life time of benefits & perks out of
> this world. Why upset the apple cart.
Yep. It's working, for them. We, on the other hand, are stuck with it.
Governments tend to get rather huffy if you boycott them, due to your
dissatisfaction with their performance.
I'm hoping for peaceful restoration of the United States Constitution,
rather than something less pleasant, such as violent revolution, or a
totalitarian state, or one of those two followed by the other. The odds
don't look especially good at the moment. -Eric
Eric S. Harris
> Time to stir the pot...
>
> The Tyranny of Super-Delegates
> List of Democratic Party Super-Delegates
> I think the Super-Delegate system is deplorable! And the Electoral
> College should be eliminated too! A system which takes decisions out of
> the hands of the public is not democracy!
Yes, you're right. Such a government is not a democracy.
The United States is a republic, not a democracy. You could look it up.
It's right there in the Constitution.
And in closing, a style note. Exclamation points are like dollars. The
more of them there are in a place, the less valuable each of them is.
If there are enough in a place, not only is each one worth less, they
all together are worthless. -Eric