Use wikicreole as syntax ??

[jroe...@gmail.com]

Hello,

On http://www.wikicreole.org/ is an ongoing effort to define an markup
language to use in wikis. This is done to prevent 10 wiki engines to
use 10 different markups. See http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole0.5
for the currents markup-set. For instance the header are like

= header 1 =
== header 2 ==
The closing = is optional

instead of

!header 1
!! header 2

Mayby it is not worth the effort but using a more generally used
markup might make people try SW sooner.

Greetings,
Jroeterd

[siredmond]

It is true that the WoaS syntax is greatly different from convention.
So do we keep with convention or use this system.

On Mar 31, 10:33 am, "jroet...@gmail.com" <jroet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Onhttp://www.wikicreole.org/is an ongoing effort to define an markup

> language to use in wikis. This is done to prevent 10 wiki engines to

> use 10 different markups. Seehttp://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole0.5

[legolas558]

I do not plan any bigger syntax change for version 0.9; however I will
read with interest the ongoing discussion about this topic.

I had already thought to support headers through the equal '=' sign (and
through the '!' exclamation mark), but as an addition and not to conform
to any standard; my personal opinion is that it would not be productive
to conform to a specific wiki standard in future versions, I otherwise
think that other wikis should use our syntax!

--
legolas558

siredmond ha scritto:

[siredmond]

Our syntax does have it problems tho. The ! at the beginning of a
sentence comes up once in a while, and sometimes you do not want to
have it as a header.
i.e.

!!Note: One .Act file can only hold one model!!

---

It causes the phraser to make a header, but the writing may not want
it to

On Mar 31, 10:49 am, legolas558 <legolas...@email.it> wrote:
> I do not plan any bigger syntax change for version 0.9; however I will
> read with interest the ongoing discussion about this topic.
>
> I had already thought to support headers through the equal '=' sign (and
> through the '!' exclamation mark), but as an addition and not to conform
> to any standard; my personal opinion is that it would not be productive
> to conform to a specific wiki standard in future versions, I otherwise
> think that other wikis should use our syntax!
>
> --
> legolas558
>
> siredmond ha scritto:
>
> > It is true that the WoaS syntax is greatly different from convention.
> > So do we keep with convention or use this system.
>
> > On Mar 31, 10:33 am, "jroet...@gmail.com" <jroet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Hello,
>

> >> Onhttp://www.wikicreole.org/isan ongoing effort to define an markup

[legolas558]

siredmond ha scritto:

> Our syntax does have it problems tho. The ! at the beginning of a
> sentence comes up once in a while, and sometimes you do not want to
> have it as a header.
> i.e.
>
> !!Note: One .Act file can only hold one model!!
>

I also think that the equal sign '=' syntax would be clearer; are we
going to make this global syntax change like the one done for '+' vs '*'
for unordered lists? What are other users' opinions about this?

In some languages you can usually start a phrase with an exclamation
mark, that's by biggest concern.

--
legolas558

[legolas558]

If you know about, please tell what other problems you spotted

Thank you
--
legolas558

legolas558 ha scritto:

[André Wagner]

> I do not plan any bigger syntax change for version 0.9; however I will
> read with interest the ongoing discussion about this topic.

Hello,

like you said, any syntax changes now would probably delay the
release, specially because this would need a lot of work not only in
the translator but in the import feature too.

But later on, I believe we can start thinking about going to a
standard syntax. This would make the adoption simpler by other wikis
users, and also would allow some interchangeability between wikis,
that would be something interesting.

Best regards,

André

--
A cura para o tédio é a curiosidade.
Não há cura para a curiosidade. (Dorothy Parker)

[legolas558]

I have been reading:

http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?WikiMarkupStandard
http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?WikiInterchangeFormat

They are very interesting docs - I also suggest interested people to
read them.
I think that WoaS syntax should remain print-like (it is currently good
enough, in my opinion), we can change some rules only if they are
confusing/not that good.
We are also sharing some syntax with the MediaWiki software, which is
the most widespread, and this is a good thing in my opinion.
So, for now I think we can start a productive discussion about our
syntax - skipping useless flamewars and without loosing the focus on our
simplicity - but I would not change anything for v0.9.

We could also allow a good export format (apart from XHTML that will be
supported in v0.9), in the end.

Regards,
--
legolas558
WoaS project mantainer

siredmond ha scritto:

[legolas558]

Sorry, I forgot another interesting link:

http://ontoworld.org/wiki/Wiki_Interchange_Format

And a practical precisation: as far as pasted text (plain or with
email-like syntax) is not decorated with unwanted tags, I will know that
WoaS syntax is not ill :)

--
legolas558

legolas558 ha scritto:

[Klonk]

On 31 Mrz., 16:33, "jroet...@gmail.com" <jroet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>

> Onhttp://www.wikicreole.org/is an ongoing effort to define an markup

> language to use in wikis. This is done to prevent 10 wiki engines to

> use 10 different markups. Seehttp://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole0.5

> for the currents markup-set. For instance the header are like
>

I think this would be a great idea and thu ssupport that
BTW: they have a consensus which they plan to relaease as final base
at May 5th.

Maybe it is not necessary to implement it for version 0.9. But
afterwards I think this makes sense to make it easier for other users/
switching users and reduces the learning curve.

So at least the base is the same.

[legolas558]

Breaking our syntax to be compatible with Creole would make our users
very upset.

I know that theorically having an universal/common syntax is a good
thing, but practically since we already have a syntax breaking it now
would be very unfair.

In future replacing the WoaS wiki syntax parser will be easier, so
possibly any wiki syntax could be supported, but I would not switch our
wiki syntax to Creole simply because this is not a brand new project, it
is not design-from-scratch time.

Just my 4 cents.

--
legolas558

Klonk ha scritto:

[legolas558]

Sorry my answer was incomplete/totally wrong.

The _markup_ unification effort of CREOLE is instead a very good thing,
I have already modified our bold and italics output generation code some
weeks ago and I look forward to make our XHTML output as much as
compatible to CREOLE.

So, I will keep an eye on the specifications they will release, but I
still think that _our wiki syntax_ cannot be just dropped in favor of
another, even if better.

Regards,
--
legolas558
WoaS project mantainer

legolas558 ha scritto:

[André Wagner]

> So, I will keep an eye on the specifications they will release, but I
> still think that _our wiki syntax_ cannot be just dropped in favor of
> another, even if better.

Perhaps, in the future, users can have a option to choose which syntax they prefer? (but I don't know how much this would bloat our wiki)

Regards,

André

--
O Cristianismo é afirmação que, se falsa, não tem nenhuma importância
mas, se verdadeira, tem absoluta importância. A única coisa que ele não
pode ser é moderadamente importante. (C. S. Lewis)

[legolas558]

André Wagner ha scritto:

>> So, I will keep an eye on the specifications they will release, but I
>> still think that _our wiki syntax_ cannot be just dropped in favor of
>> another, even if better.
>>
>
> Perhaps, in the future, users can have a option to choose which syntax they prefer? (but I don't know how much this would bloat our wiki)
>

Yes it is a wanted feature, I also mentioned it in an answer to Klock.
When the API will be re-organized, and if it will be re-organized
correctly without becoming hard to use and without becoming inefficient,
we'll see how feasible the engine replacement possibility is.

Otherwise we would have to implement two syntaxes into WoaS, but I don't
have yet any opinion about this.

Regards,
--
Daniele C. (aka legolas558)

> Regards,
>
> André
>
>

[André Wagner]

> Yes it is a wanted feature, I also mentioned it in an answer to Klock.

Ah, sure, I didn't see that. This is what happens when you try to read things too fast :-)

[legolas558]

I have added our project to WikiCreole:
http://www.wikicreole.org/wiki/WikiOnAStick

The official project statements I have published there are:

* we are discussing about modifying our syntax to be compliant to the
latest Creole specification (I'd better wait for other big wikis to
accept it before editing ours, to tell the truth)
* we already share some syntax with the Creole specification
* we are working to have the XHTML output suggested by Creole for our
wiki syntax rendering

There are features which put Wiki on a Stick apart from other wiki
rendering engines (apart from it begin a pure javascript rendering
engine), like our reserved namespaces "special" functions (which are
really trasversal). For the rest of the syntax (think about tables for
example) I would agree with a possible unification during the v1.x
development cycle (by that time more Creole specifications will be out).
I will also partecipate to the discussions at the WikiCreole project for
our simplicity interests.

Regards,
--
legolas558

[siredmond]

Still a few issues with the syntax with the latest beta of the truck

my favorite example just because it covers so much ground. Just place
the following line in a page.

C:/Files/*.ini and C:/Files/*.u

This will render improperly.

[legolas558]

siredmond ha scritto:

> Still a few issues with the syntax with the latest beta of the truck
>
> my favorite example just because it covers so much ground. Just place
> the following line in a page.
>
> C:/Files/*.ini and C:/Files/*.u
>
> This will render improperly.
>

Now fixed on SVN (2-files version).

Thanks for reporting
--
legolas558