Going Tubeless?

[Paul_G]

I ride an OptiBike now until the Bomber arrives with Marathon XR HS 359's and in 3 years I have had 0 flats, IMO they make the best tires but have none in the sizr for a Stealth bike. http://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/road_tires/marathon_xr

I ordered the Bomber with Hookworm street tires and fear I will be getting flats left and right as they are not protected like a Marathon  http://www.maxxis.com/Bicycle/Urban/Hookworm.aspx

 So I was thinking of going tubeless using Stan's NOTUBES system http://www.notubes.com/Movies_Kit_Installation.aspx

Check out the video where he runs over 100's of nails, all other systems have no side wall protection, he drives ice picks through the sides and it seals.

So my question is has any one tried this system on a Bomber or any bike in general?

Paul G

[Jim_Kirk]

Not recommended:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!searchin/optibike-owners-group/stans$20no$20tube/optibike-owners-group/ajywzCcNjtI/4-JZ9mJ-NoYJ

[Paul_G]

Thanks Jim for that info

what about running a sealant in the tubes?

Does it work OK and if so what would be the best?

Or would it be better to add it only if you get a flat to get home where its EZ'er to work on a 120 lb bike?

Or just fix um where u got um and flip the bike over :)

Paul G

[Jim_Kirk]

Paul,
No magic bullet on your question.  I use:

1. A tire liner which I rubber cement to the inside of the tire: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001J8HGM2?ie=UTF8&redirect=true
2. A slime filled inner tube: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ENOPOA

If you go the route of the tire liner then I suggest an industrial strength rubber contact adhesive to hold it in place.  Such as
7509A65

3M Scotch-Weld Rubber and Gasket Adhesive No. 847 Brush Application, 5-Ounce Tube
Available from McMaster-Carr.  http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/117/3387/=bl9393

[remf]

Finding a tire liner or slime tube wide enough for the 24" x 3" tires is a problem. I use brown Mr. Tuffys on my Opti but the tires are 26" x 2.35"/2.2". They could be glued down the centreline of the 24" x 3" tube as Jim suggests. As for quick repairs, Slime have a 12 oz can of Quick-Spair for small tires. Sealant is also an option but not as effective as Mr.Tuffys IMO.

[remf]

The purple Mr. Tuffy's for 29" x 2.5", glued to the centreline of the tire should work well though wouldn't protect the entire width.

[Paul_G]

I ordered with the street tires, they are 24 x 2.5"

I would think the liners would make for a hard ride, I tried the thick tubes in the optibike and hated them...killed the ride ....maybe just the slime in the tubes I guess.

thanks for all the ideas

Paul G

[Voicecoils]

If you hate punctures I would add the tuffys. Pay the extra for the 'light' versions. They are thin and flexible, just a tough layer that's hard to puncture.

Then carry a bottle of pressurized slime like remf.

Cheers!
Sent from my iPhone

[Paul_G]

50% less weight, thanks

looks like the 2.5" x 26"  are now brown colored and are ribbed to hold in place. 

http://www.mrtuffy.com/ultralites.php

Paul G

[Jim_Kirk]

Don't forget to buy the rubber cement and put it on the inside of the tire and on the liner.  Then when you place the two in contact they will stay where you want them.  Trying to do it without the rubber cement is an exercise in frustration.

-Jim

[Paul_G]

I see Mr. Tuffy makes a 10 year no flat slime type tube filler but it wont work with a presta valve as it will clog them and that makes me think it would work well. If it cant seal an air valve how will it seal a hole in the tube?

They also have tubes but not in 24 x 2.5

http://www.mrtuffy.com/tireSealant.php

Paul G

[Paul_G]

OK, so I need to buy tubes with removable core presta valves and I could then use the sealant I see.

they have a 26" x 2.5-3" tube in both types,  to bad no 24" 

Paul G

[Voicecoils]

Schwalbe make excellent presta tubes with removable valve cores.

I can check on sizes tomorrow

Sent from my iPhone

[Paul_G]

hey, months ago I remember seeing a 24 x 3" tube there and wondering why as they didn't have any tires in that size......thanks

I also found this link: http://k0lee.com/2009/10/putting-tire-sealant-in-presta-valve-tubes/

Paul G

[remf]

I used sealants on my first Opti and still got many flats over 10,000 miles of riding, one was a messy slime explosion - yes I got slimmed. My second Opti has done more than 10,000 miles and has only had brown Mr Tuffys - zero punctures and absolutely no noticeable difference to the ride - at least that I can detect. I'm going to put the ultra-lights on the Bomber.

[remf]

I've got tubeless Maxxis on my Santa Cruz and never had a flat in the urban jungle or thick rainforest.

[Paul_G]

Tire pressure on the Hook Worms. 30/40

 I have it riding like your on a cloud with 30 PSI in the F and 40 PSI rear. and the forks well oiled.

Added 4 oz of slime F, 6-8 oz R Didn't install the tire liners yet as I fear it will mess up the ride. go from 30 to 35 in the F and its far harsher same with the rear, add 5 PSI more and you feel the bumps. 

Paul G

[Bike_On]

Remf,

I bought some mr tuffys tonight at performance. I've had a lot of
flats the past two years.

Dan

[remf]

Dan, I can pretty much guarantee you'll have no more flats. I had Mr Tuffys in my Opti's for a total of 5 years riding - you guessed it, you've heard it before :) no flats. Of course now I've sold my Opti & I've had a flat on the Bomber...not fun to fix out on a ride...I always carry a can of Slime or SealnFlate...so I used a can and have gone hundreds of miles since. My new tire should arrive today but Tuffy's aren't wide enough for 3" tires. Only option is to cement the widest brown ones down the centre of the tube - unless anyone knows about any 3" wide liners?

[Paul_G]

One thing to remember with using slime in your tires, the tires may go flat at first so you turn the cut down and re-pump with air. The faster the better I have learned.

I use this: http://www.rei.com/product/696553/genuine-innovations-ultraflate-plus-bike-tire-inflator

 Fits both Presta and Schrader valve stems; push on for Presta, screw on for Schrader

Paul G

[Paul_G]

Removed my Hookworms and installed Crazy Bobs with the thin Mr Tuffy tire liners. The Hookworms seemed to have more grip.

Killed the ride at the same air pressure and the rear wheel hops on bumps, very noticeable in a turn. I'll have to lower the air pressure from the 40-45 I was running in the rear to 30-35 and see how it rides.

I think I would like to try Stans no tubes. The tires have a good locking bead but I dont see Schrader valves as an option on his web page. Maybe a truck tubeless valve will work?

Paul G

[Jim_Kirk]

Paul,
    Tried Stan's with my Opti.  Read about it here:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!searchin/optibike-owners-group/Stans/optibike-owners-group/ajywzCcNjtI/_6mraP6PB2oJ
     My opinion, forget it you will be very frustrated.
  
     =>What size/color Mr. Tuffy tire liners should I buy for my Bomber tires?

-Jim

[Paul_G]

I dislike the ride with tire liners, harsh ride and the rear tire will hop on bumps in a turn.

So I came up with a plan :) I will try a 20" tube cut up the middle and stretched over the wheel (I'll make my own wheel liners), I'll then seat the tire and cut off the excess that sticks out and install Stans no tubes liquid.

F wheel 1st for the test as that fits EZ'er, IF it works I'll try the rear.

If I could find just the valve stem I would try without wheel liners and use Gorilla tape to seal the spokes but all they sell is the thin type valve.

Paul G 

[Jim_Kirk]

Paul,

I was not happy with Stans but see if you can get it to stop leaking air and let us know. 
What tire pressure do you run at now.  I'm 50 psi.  Suspension is set to very soft and low damping.  Slight vacuum [- pressure] in front forks was told by White Bros.  this works to soften it up more than zero pressure.

-Jim

[Paul_G]

50 will give a hard ride, I use 30-40 PSI

Paul G

[Paul_G]

I went tubeless, so far so good

I removed the tire strips, and used Gorilla tape to cover the holes, I added two layers just by the valve stems....no rubber liners used. I used Stan's Pesta valves and just tightened the nuts down well.

I had to use a 16 gram CO2 cartridge to get the tires to lock into the bead, a pump or a 12 would not do it.

F wheel had 0 leakage on the bead, no foam at all.

R wheel foamed at the bead for a while.....the R is a bitch to shake....my arms cramped up :)

Time will tell how it holds up....I'll report my findings

Paul G

[Jim_Kirk]

Paul,
Is this correct?  You are tubeless now with Stans sealant and Crazy Bob tires F and R?
What is the tire pressure you are running at F/R?

-Jim

[Paul_G]

Correct....now tubeless

Just took it out for a short ride between the rain and I'm super happy with the ride, no tube or tire lines makes for a plush ride. :)

I hit a few curbs without lifting the F wheel to see if it would burp....no burps prolly due to the locking wire bead.

Running at 40 PSI and the ride feels like 25....I could prolly go to 50 PSI and still have a smooth ride.

But time will tell if work well and every month you need to add 2oz with Stan's.

I used 1" wide Gorilla tape in place of the spoke tape....one problem is that they have very large holes in the rear wheel and I'm sorry I didn't dbl it up as its possible to blow the tape through the holes maybe. But that tape sticks very well so we will see.

Or better yet go with a wider tape and cut off any excess. 

http://www.gorillaglue.com/tapes.aspx

Paul G

[Paul_G]

I used the 44mm  and tightened the nut down well

http://www.notubes.com/Universal-44mm-Tubeless-Road-Valve-Stem-Pair-P163C16.aspx

Paul G

[Paul_G]

got out for a ride and observed a few changes.

Ride is great

Tends to pop the F wheel far higher and EZ'er.

Now the odd unwelcome change....Tire noise. Both tires are loud without tubes to muffle the noise.....they sing like truck tires > 20 MPH.

Paul G 

[Mr Lowbank]

Hi Paul

I'm taking delivery of a bomber next week with duro Razorback tyres I ride where there are lots of three corner jack and Cowtrops so are looking for a good solution. how has the gorilla tape been going? would you look at Stan's NoTubes Downhill Rim Strip or stick with the tape?

[Jim_Kirk]

Mr. Lowbank,

    I've been down the Stans notube route. Take a look at my review:
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/optibike-owners-group/ajywzCcNjtI/discussion
    Not recommended.

-Jim

[Paul_G]

I went back to tubes due to a blow out street riding at 20-25 mph where the Crazy Bob tire ripped and nearly came off the wheel due to no tube and the very slippery Stans.  Razorbacks would hold the wheel far better I'm sure and not rip so it should be OK. But each thorn hole will weep a few drops of Stans over night as it stops the air from escaping but not the liquid.

I ran them for 500 miles with several holes and had to air up once a week. When the tire let go I found it was filled with hardened up Stans latex in lumps in the rear tire, front was minor as it had no holes. So IF you run Stans I would pop the bead on the tire once a month and clean it out when adding new fluid....I added more through the stem.

If I did it again I would use 2" wide Gorilla tape and go around 2+ full turns as my one turn was pushing out the large spoke holes in the rear and it was not as wide as it should have been or use Stans tape if they have it wide enough.

You will need to carry a 16 gram or larger CO2 inflater to reseal the tire if it comes off the bead. 12's do not work.

You will need to open the tire while on the bike and remove the crud once a month but other than that it works.

Paul G

[remf]

With the Duro's, I recommend thick tubes like Intense DH or Halo's and the use of some kind of sealant.

On my regular mountain bike, I use UST tubeless Maxxis Crossmarks with Stans sealant. I find it works really well on that, if only it worked so well on the Stealths.

[Mr Lowbank]

Having a blow out at 20-25 mph would not be confidence inspiring.

In the past I have used Mr tuffy's with thorn proof tubes and (Slime)
sealant! this has worked well to stop punchers from goatheads but are
looking at updating my system. I like the sound of the better ride
with tubeless and think I will give it a go. It looks like the rim
strips help with sealing the bead, so will try them rather than just
the tape. has any body tried the green Tyre "Slime" brand sealant V's
Stan's sealant? I use the slime product now and it has worked in tubes
But not sure about tubeless.
I check my tyre pressure before each ride with a air compressor so a
slow leak wouldn't be to bad.

[remf]

I would definitely use Stan's in tubeless. I've put it in both my Fighter's tubes with Mr.Tuffy's and my MTB's tubeless Crossmarks. In both cases, the tires look like they're going wear out long before I get a show stopping puncture.