Welcome
goo...@ketchikan.net
cluttered than SA to start organizing this.
Just Another Sailor
I am developing a group of owners, designers, builders that seek to
race 1 or 2 sport boat sections at the upcoming Key West Race Week
2006. It is my early goal to race they design under the RORC sport boat
rule. As day boats they do not have to meet current ORC safety & crew
requirements, I expect this to lead to other events across the US to
host races (sections) for these new & innovated designs. Can we count
on your support in helping us promote your international customer base
to come to Key West next year?
Guy deBoer
Just Another Sailor
It is my intention to form a group of sport boat owners, designers,
builders and dealers to organize and promote open sport boat racing in
North American. The premise is to use the RORC Sport Boat Rule as an
established rating system to fairly rate and establish guidelines for
this group to race under in many different events across the United
States.
The RORC Sport Boat Rule has won acclaim as the best rule to fairly
rate different sport boat designs across the board. It allows dayboat
designs to race against offshore qualified designs without encumbering
dayboat designs to meet offshore safety requirements.
The first priority is to organize and select several national sailing
venues for this group to race at. Only through organization and sport
boat unity amongst the sport boat community can our designs become
accepted race divisions at major and local sailing events.
If you own, sail or sell a sport boat design I feel we can develop a
quality group to represent and establish sport boat racing at many
major sailing venues across the United States; Key West Race Week,
Sailing World NOOD Regattas, Block Island Race Week, Charleston Race
Week, Miami Race Week, Whidbey Island Race Week and many more.
If you're interested or know someone interested in Sport Boat Racing
please forward on this information. Please send your contact
information, boat design (including sail number), and home port. It may
also be helpful to list major events that you yourself would like to
compete in.
Just Another Sailor
they are in the process of changing the rating formula to better rate
designs across the broad spectrum of sport boat design. As w/ IRC, it
is my hope that these discrepancies can be adjusted shortly.
The advantage of the rule is; it allows for open racing between day
boats and other standard sport boat designs. For this segment of racing
to grow in the states we will need a solid rule to apply across the
nation & events.
I appreciate your input and look forward to working with us sport boat
sailors so our sport of sailboat racing can continue to prosper.
Guy deBoer
Just Another Sailor
organization is to formalize a rule that encompasses the current state
of emerging sport boat design; i.e. smaller, lighter designs that do
not fit within current PHRF safety (lifeline) & crew requirements. The
RORC SBR allows for the mixing of these two groups to race within the
same section. Neither group has an advantage due to the safety & crew
rules, it accepts both for which they are.
Just Another Sailor
IRC and the SPB and its' disparities. The spreadsheet reflects the
comparisons between the two rules. I initially gravitated towards the
SBR because it allowed the co-mingling of day boats and other offshore
designs.
Question, If a sport boat organization states which rating rule
(standard IRC) and safety / crew requirements it will sail under and
assuming all parties agree, could we not race at national events still
co-mingling the designs?
Guy,
Good on you for trying to get something going.
One point upon which I would like to comment is your fervent belief
that SBR favours all-out sportsboats designs versus the more
traditional designs, compared to say, how IRC treats sportsboats.
I conducted an analysis (within my modest maths capabilities) of the
relative handicaps given to the more extreme sportsboats designs (and
your Martin 243 would come under that definition, as does the JS9000
etc) and the more standard designs (like Platu 25/Farr 25, etc) have
found that under SBR, the more radical designs are penalised more
heavily under SBR than IRC.
See my attached spreadsheet which compares the relative handicaps under
IRC and SBR of the same set of boats. In short, my Modified Magic has
to be 3min 25.2 sec faster every hour under SBR than under IRC against
the same boats. It would be similar disparity for your Martin and for
any of the more 'pure' or radical boats. And this is considering the
claim that SBR is designed to better accommodate the more extreme range
of high performance designs in Sportsboats that cannot (supposedly) be
accommodated under IRC.
In RORC's defence, they say they cannot accommodate this within a
rating year, and may well "adjust" the model to rectify this
inconsistency for SBR 2005. I can understand their position on this but
will wait to see how my rating looks this year in SBR versus IRC,
before deciding which races to enter. In 2004, the Phuket 8's and I
decided to avoid the SBR regattas and race under IRC.
Before you decide to commit to a rating rule, look carefully to see
whether it promotes more exciting sportsboat design or hinders it. SBR
only seems to win on safety requirements, but most or our regattas (in
Asia) allow dispensation in certain areas or race under Cat. 5 in order
to accept a wider array of boats - so this points becomes moot.
I think it would be great if we could get a rating system that promotes
more interesting and progressive design with a view to speed and
excitement for relatively low budgets - sailing really needs the
shot-in-the-arm in most markets and sportsboats are the ideal bridge
for attracting younger sailors into keelboats.
All the best,
Andrew
PS there may be other, more correct ways to do this analysis but
whichever way you look at it, there is a considerable difference in the
rating systems and not in favour of progressive design.
Just Another Sailor
Everyone should know, if they don't already, I'm just a sailor
looking to race my sport boat in a level playing field. I started this
the SBR to open a discussion not to dictate what we all should do.
Every event I'm speaking about; KW, the NOOD's and many others
already allow boats that fail to meet ORC safety requirements to race
in their day events; Melges 24, Corsair and the like.
I started down this road thinking that the RORC Sport boat Rule was our
best solution to place all sport boat together under a single rating
system. Already sport boat owners from around the globe have sent me
information stating the rule has serious problems rating a newer sport
boat against the older designs and that in actuality the standard IRC
rule works better across the board.
That answers one part of the problem. The second is how we get event
organizers to accept all sport boats, especially the newer ones that
fail to meet ORC safety requirements. My light bulb may be dim but
it's not out! The Melges 24 is accepted solely because they have set
rules that they aide by. Our new SP Organization can accept our own
rules and require boats that wish to compete will have to aide by them.
Is this just that simple???
If the current offshore sport boats agree to race in an open class
under standard IRC, as an example, I don't see any objections from
event organizers. From the safety side, it is better for mandatory PFDs
opposed to voluntary, isn't it?
On another note, I wish to say I want these discussions to be on a
positive note between a new and forming organization and event
organizers. The only agenda I have is to sail & race my boat. As you
know I started the thread on SA.
Just Another Sailor
we have over 40 sport boat sailors representing over 23 separate
designs registered at
sportboatinfo @yahoo.com.
One of the members has started a Google forum for closer contact
between the registered group. I hope that all participants on the SA
forum will join so we can distribute your ideas and opinions directly
to the group w/o members having to check in to any forum for
information, we'll sent it direct to you.
Today, I'm asking all that have joined to reach out and contact any of
your friends that have sport boats that have not yet heard about our
initiative to join up now. If everyone locates at least 3 sport boat
owners here in North America our group will have the necessary critical
mass to form a viable organization. We should have representation from
all current designs and all regions of North America. With a group with
at least 120-150 members we will have a mandate to organize, set our
OPEN SPORT BOAT safety rules and establish a regatta schedule that can
assure our members and event organizers that a suitable number of sport
boats can be delivered at certain events with strong enough numbers to
earn our own starts and with great enough numbers multiply race
sections, Class 1-2-3!!!!!
In my opinion we need to get started developing six areas;
· Form a North American Sport Boat Association & its bylaws
· Elect a board of Governors
· Under which rating rule to organize
· Establish safety rules for day boats
· Recognize crew requirements for individual designs
· Select regional events with one national winter event as our North
American Championship
I feel we should make a goal of March 1, 2005 as our target date for
150 members. If we all participate we can make this happen!!!!
Just Another Sailor
to determine their Upwind & Downwind SA/Displacement Ratios. It would
appear that most designs currently fit in a ratio for Upwind at; (33-
58) & Downwind; ( 71-130). The Cork, JS9000 the least powerful Upwind
and the Martin 243, Duncanson 8, Pocket Rocket, Melges 24 and the
Ulitmate 20&24 the most powerful. Downwind ratios fit between; (71-130)
with the Cork, JS9000 & Pocket Rocket the least powerful and the
Thompson (Viper) 830 & Duncanson 8 the most powerful. Most designs fit
within a normal ration w/ just a couple lying outside a standard Bell
Curve.
Can the interested owners send in their Upwind & Downwind SA/Displ
Ratios so I can begin comparing these w/ existing SP Designs?
Go to this web page for the ratio calculator;
http://www.sailingusa.info/cal__sad_ratio.htm
Send your info on your design to; sportb...@yahoo.com
gybeset
exciting future. however I can give opinion based on my experiences in
Australian raceweeks. If this sounds brash sometimes, remember I'm an
Aussie (our humour and shit-stirring can be taken the wrong way).
There are some fasinating designs here, and as you may soon find out,
one (Bethwaite 79er yet to be built) may be seen in the States, I'm
basing this assumption on the 49ers marketing base.
I can comment on the limits and class splits etc, as we have some
'progresive designs here racing against production boats. Richard I
agree that dividing into classes will come, but don't let that stop the
launching of the proposed first regatta.
If RORC IRC is proven to be more equitable than RORC SBR then try to
get RORC (or just do it) use the ROD principle, where each and every
boat of a one-design need not get an individual cert. Otherwise I fear
you may get less entries as all boats do not have certs.
Should Open SB USA try to get an authorisation from RORC to
expediate/allow/manage boats without certs, of course you cannot let
this limit your entries,
I find it intersting the SE Asian experience that more progresive
designs are less penalized under IRC as opposed to SBR. Investigate
this further, if proven beyond doubt then you know which way to go.
Only other alternative is a domestic class based handicap, that must be
tunable on a regular basis by an independant committee (independant
designer etc) , you need to keep this option up your sleeve if the
other systems don't promote participation.
Good Luck ( i hope large numbers in the US and a P.O.V embracing the
more progressive designs and supporting the current OD/production boats
will pressure RORC to be more kind to lightweights,wide boats and large
SAreas,,after this is OPEN division !!
FULL proffesional carbon should be discouraged a bit for now(both RORC
systems probably take it into account)
Your Upper limit should cut out predominately 'displacement' designs
(yacht characteristics), this makes H'capping difficult (their fast
days-2-10knts upwind- are the opposite to a typical sportsboat) and
will disenchant the players, there is a mindset in UK/USA that a
performance boat in the 30's range (ev32, 11mtr OD) is a sportsboat. I
am sure the point of SB div is that you DON'T have to race against
dinghies or leadbellies.
Just Another Sailor
Kiwi's, from our point of view your ok...
What AUS rule and where is it published? We're still working on how
best to implement this idea.
wsbtwo
Details about the boat, current owners and class can be found at www.
hotfoot20.com.
Cheers,
Steve Bowman
U20 #001
SILVER
gybeset
The Victorian Y.A publshes a set of tcf's for trailer yachts is the
most 'in place' reference for "KneeCapping"., they are called Class
Based Handicaps. C.B.H and are a TY extension of Off The Beach OTB
class yardstick systems like 'portsmouth number', this can work if
regularly reviewed by an independant committee if you need to get away
from other rating systems that don't work !
CBH includes entries for any one-off modified boats, say if one added
M/H or assy kite to an existing design, and in that sense encourages
development
The best rule ( my opinion ) and the one that attracted Kiwi and
Japanese entries here was Hamilton Island Race Week. kinda 1. ur under
200kg 2. UR designed to plane, if they didn't see say a yacht type as
being right they reserved the right to plonk it in another division.
the other rule is the NSW TY assoc one which is restrictive and
excludes the H.I.R.W types. It has width restrictions and fals back on
the UK 35% ballst ratio rule, the ones the KIWIS have dropped to 30%
(better).
I pass on the CBH info tho have reservations if it's not reviewed and
administered fairly or independantly. Other good idea with ALL systems,
mix up your courses, more PPL from differnt designs will be happier
more of the time, If you do ALL one type say W/L the same designs will
win thus dis-enchanting your fleet and potential entries next regatta.
Just Another Sailor
Nice to see the support from the U20 owners like yourself.