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Mike Townsend

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Sep 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/13/96

Howdee 'gan Dennis,
RE: Hair-standing

DM> Now, that's more like it!! I had read your earlier message and took it
DM>differently that what you just described above.
DM> I guess the motivation for telling everyone else to go to hell is
DM>always different for different folks.

Now, now...I just forgot to take my medication yesterday. <G>

DM> No, I don't think I have a typical mindset. Although, I do share some
DM>of the same view as you do, I do not share the cynical, often caustic
DM>view of society in general.
DM> 'I think in generalities you deal too much'

If I were to stop and think of every little detail they would be out
here to carry me away within five minutes. Generalities are easier to
deal with, mentally. I try to consider all sides of an issue, however
the logic of many of the things that are happening in the world today
totally escapes me, being human, and I occasionally flip over the edge.

DM> To look at the beauty and serenity of being totally alone, away from
DM>the 'BS' of the world, sounds like an isolationist, thus the comment I
DM>made regarding Ruby Ridge. What I've read and heard about Randy Weaver,
DM>he had the same idea as you just espoused. Let me go live by myself,
DM>leave me alone, and let the world turn without me.

Aaaah, but he WASN'T left alone, was he?? <G> (Oh no, here we go again!
<G>)...

DM> I WAS NOT insinuating that you were an alcoholic, the moonshine was
DM>just a image that I had in my mine of the moonshiners who also would
DM>like to espouse the same belief, isolationism, 'Just leave me alone'

Absoutely no offense taken. I did have a problem with alcohol back in
'90, and was able to work through it. All too often, we think in black
and white, using labels like "alcoholic" instead of searching deeper to
understand the reasoning behind the actions of an individual which so
'abhor' the general society.

DM> I recall that this is 'something of a standard situation'
DM>'preparation for a holy mission by a retreat into the wilderness'
DM>Moses did it, John the Baptist did it. I am not sure there are any
DM>biblical corrollaries here for you Mike, but perhaps there is a real
DM>need for you to 'retreat into the wilderness' so you can calm your
DM>mind and study the things that ARE important in your life.

Although I'm agnostic, I can understand your point. Perhaps this IS
what I am looking for at this time of my life. As we are all
individuals, we all have individual reasons for our actions. Sometimes
a stoid stance is appropriate; Other times a release of emotion.
Finally found that out after being called "My Mr. Spock" for so many
years by my wife, while I was working in radio.

Catch ya on the flip side...

Mike
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Dennis Mott

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Sep 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/14/96

On Friday, September 13th, 1996 - Mike Townsend wrote:

MT> DM>differently that what you just described above.

DM> I guess the motivation for telling everyone else to go to hell is

MT> DM>always different for different folks.
MT> Now, now...I just forgot to take my medication yesterday. <G>

I laughed so hard when I read that!!! It makes me feel good that I am
not the only one who thinks 'the world must think me a crazy man'
I am often reminded of the whole bunch of us. Not a 'normal' one in the
bunch if we were to isolate a minor incident or occasion for someone
else to take a 'myopic' view of our life.
I though of the 'X-File' type FBI agent, Agent Mulder, and how nice and
kind he seems to be when he is investigating. I think to myself
sometimes, 'hmm, maybe I could be an FBI agent or ATF Agent'... then I
think of those poor slobs who have been harasses to no end, never even
being given the decency of being named a 'suspect', as in the Atlanta
Olympic Games bombing suspect. These Agents are ruthless, that's not
the kind of agent I'd expect at my door, were I ever to be unfortunate
enough to be 'handpicked' by the FBI as a 'non-suspect' or a
'person of interest'
It sure is a good thing we live in this country. Things could be worse.
Things have been alot worse for those in Bosnia, Haiti and other places
in the world.
I do think we can learn to respect each others differences and not use
these differences to force our policies on the rest of the nation or
even the world.
Hopefully, we can all co-exist with different views and still get
along.
MT> here to carry me away within five minutes. Generalities are easier to
MT> deal with, mentally. I try to consider all sides of an issue, however
MT> the logic of many of the things that are happening in the world today
MT> totally escapes me, being human, and I occasionally flip over the
MT> edge.

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Pat Breeden

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Sep 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/14/96

Captain's Log: StarDate=>>> (Saturday) September 14, 1996 5:25pm
Quoting a Complex Cryptic Alien Signal From Matt Beazer To All

MB> is, and takes money to get out of the ground. Syntesizing air on a
MB> space station is expensive, I'm sure. (I don't know about the
MB> process, but I do know that it's posible to split a water molecule,

We separated h2o into o2 & h2 in our 9th grade science class at Salk Jr. High.
You just take some water and pass an electric DC current through it. Oxygen
collects on one terminal and Hydrogen collects on the other. Then the science
teacher took a burning splint and touched off the hydrogen side of the test
tube and it blew up with a loud pop. We also talked him into helping us make
some nitrogen tri-iodide contact explosive once after school once just for
fun. This was back in the good old days before unabombers and such. :-)

MB> and come up with hydrogen and oxygen.) I would say that water would
MB> be the most vital substance on any sort of establishment off planet.
MB> You can get oxygen through water directly by splitting off and
MB> recombining oxygen to an O2 mollecule, or indirectly from plants on a
MB> colony. I read a book where a moon colony used grass as carpeting, to
MB> help convert CO2 to O2.

Yeah, with water you could always manufacture the oxygen you'd need, but
wouldn't oxygen be more of a priority than water <just kidding>. A moon
colony would have to be all sealed up like the biosphere project. The moon's
gravity is too small to be able to terraform, so any golfing on the grass
carpeting would have to be done indoors. Mars does have frozen water at the
polar regions and also has enough gravity to hold an atmosphere, if it were
constantly replaced due to the loss of atmosphere to outer space. A moon
colony would be feasible because of it's relatively closer proximity to Earth,
but a Martian colony would be a better prospect to terraform and maybe someday
be able to walk around outside without a space suit on. We should hurry up
and test for life for sure on Mars, despite the recent meteorite, and either
confirm or deny the existence of aboriginal life there. If it turns out to be
a lifeless rock or if the native life there is nothing too special, then we
should be able to terraform Mars without much resistance from the solar system
environmentalists that will no doubt be hell bent to preserve the Martian
landscape in it's pristine condition, although for the life of me I can't
imagine why? :-)

MB> They're working on projects where they use robots, programmed with
MB> basic instructions, to build solar panel arrays in the desert. Mining

It's a good thing they're not using my computer for this. My computer is
about as reliable as a chainsaw. :-)

MB> robots scoop up sand, haul it back to a processing facilty, where it's
MB> converted into iron, and other basic building blocks, to produce more
MB> solar pannels, parts, and more robots. An estimate I beleive said
MB> that within a few years, all things going well, you could cover half
MB> the continent, depending on the starting base of robots, and the
MB> density of ore in the desert. If that succeeds, what's to stop us
MB> from dropping a few hundred robots onto the moon, let 'em work for a
MB> year or two, and end up with a ready made (although spartan) moon
MB> colony. All it takes is programming, testing, theory, planning, and a
MB> little luck. Oh, and lots and lots of development money. ;-)

We (meaning them, I'm too stupid for it) can either program robots to do this
using our current robotic technology, or if we end up waiting for 20 or 30
years from now we will possibly have nanotechnology going gangbusters by then.
We could possibly have miniature nanobots to do all of this prep work
building solar panels and whatnot. We can also assume that our biotech
sciences will be able to possibly customize DNA encoded organisms to interact
with the lunar or Martian soil to extract minerals or chemically alter the
soil to our specifications.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to have a second off-world society for mankind, such
as a Martian or lunar colony. It would sure be a crying shame for this
species we call mankind to accidently wipe itself out via nuclear war or an
escaped military virus before we ever got a chance to explore the far reaches
of our own solar system, our own galaxy, and eventually our whole universe.
Maybe even someday we could join the United Federation of Planets and pay a
galactic income tax or something too? :-) Hey, it could happen.

If it wasn't for war and the lust for political power mankind could easily
reach for the stars and at least capture the moon or Mars in the attempt. We
are a bit myopic in that way. The human population on planet Earth is fast
becoming quite unmanageable. We need an Earth II to put some of these extra
people onto don't we?

MB> Now I just need to figure out how this started as a discussion of
MB> Spokane water and ended up as a post about space colonization. <grin>

It's easy, once you start on a subject it just becomes a lot of fun to wander
off in all directions from there. I should know, I do it all the time. :-)

...Pat
... Art Bell: Assimilating more affiliate stations than the Borg.
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Matt Beazer

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Sep 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/16/96

Pat.B...@terrier.circuit.com (Pat Breeden) wrote:

>We separated h2o into o2 & h2 in our 9th grade science class at Salk Jr. High.
> You just take some water and pass an electric DC current through it. Oxygen
>collects on one terminal and Hydrogen collects on the other. Then the science
>teacher took a burning splint and touched off the hydrogen side of the test
>tube and it blew up with a loud pop. We also talked him into helping us make
>some nitrogen tri-iodide contact explosive once after school once just for
>fun. This was back in the good old days before unabombers and such. :-)

My 8th grade teacher did something similar, using zinc pellets and
hydrocholric acid. Nice big explosion, and a great stink.
Is that explosive made by using isoprophyl acohol and idodine crystals
to form a kind of (very explosive) paste? Head stories of people
rubbing this stuff on doorknobs at schools and blowing the lock of
whenever anyone touched it later. Pretty unstable when wet, VERY
unstable when dry. (It's said that a slight breeze can set off the
dry stuff if you use pure enough alcohol)
So that's why a friend of mine said that hydrogen powered cars would
be expensive to fuel, since it takes a lot of electricity to produce
the hydrogen. He talked about floating water to hydrogen and oxygen
converters, that you could put on the ocean and use solar power to
power 'em, piping the gas to shore. Problem is, can you imagine how
difficult it would be to guard a few thousand of these things? An
ideal target for terrorisim. Big explosion. ;-)

>Yeah, with water you could always manufacture the oxygen you'd need, but
>wouldn't oxygen be more of a priority than water <just kidding>. A moon
>colony would have to be all sealed up like the biosphere project. The moon's
>gravity is too small to be able to terraform, so any golfing on the grass
>carpeting would have to be done indoors.

Golfing on the moon...yeah, talk about long haul tee-offs. 1/10th
gravity and no air means high jumps for asronauts. Think of someone
hitting a ball with a club traveling up to 100mph. ("Yeah, sir. I
think you got a good two, three mile hit there.")

>Mars does have frozen water at the
>polar regions and also has enough gravity to hold an atmosphere, if it were
>constantly replaced due to the loss of atmosphere to outer space. A moon
>colony would be feasible because of it's relatively closer proximity to Earth,
>but a Martian colony would be a better prospect to terraform and maybe someday
>be able to walk around outside without a space suit on. We should hurry up
>and test for life for sure on Mars, despite the recent meteorite, and either
>confirm or deny the existence of aboriginal life there. If it turns out to be
>a lifeless rock or if the native life there is nothing too special, then we
>should be able to terraform Mars without much resistance from the solar system
>environmentalists that will no doubt be hell bent to preserve the Martian
>landscape in it's pristine condition, although for the life of me I can't
>imagine why? :-)

But we'd disturb the natual, barren, rocky landscape! I mean, who
would be able to look out on it and feel depressed? What about the
people who love the color red? <grin>

> MB> They're working on projects where they use robots, programmed with
> MB> basic instructions, to build solar panel arrays in the desert. Mining

>It's a good thing they're not using my computer for this. My computer is
>about as reliable as a chainsaw. :-)

Running Windows 95? <snicker> (Couldn't resist that one)

>We (meaning them, I'm too stupid for it) can either program robots to do this
>using our current robotic technology, or if we end up waiting for 20 or 30
>years from now we will possibly have nanotechnology going gangbusters by then.
> We could possibly have miniature nanobots to do all of this prep work
>building solar panels and whatnot. We can also assume that our biotech
>sciences will be able to possibly customize DNA encoded organisms to interact
>with the lunar or Martian soil to extract minerals or chemically alter the
>soil to our specifications.

That is, if the people protesting the 'unnatual reasearch' don't shut
it down first. Most don't realize that when they eat half the produce
they get from the supermarket they're eating an 'unnatual veggie'.

>It wouldn't be a bad idea to have a second off-world society for mankind, such
>as a Martian or lunar colony. It would sure be a crying shame for this
>species we call mankind to accidently wipe itself out via nuclear war or an
>escaped military virus before we ever got a chance to explore the far reaches
>of our own solar system, our own galaxy, and eventually our whole universe.
>Maybe even someday we could join the United Federation of Planets and pay a
>galactic income tax or something too? :-) Hey, it could happen.

I've read about laser-powered ships, using solar sails. They say the
could theoretically set up big solar powered lasers in orbit around
mercury, and send a ship that way, reaching speeds near light.
Problem is, the sail required would be the size of texas. Others are
talking about hybring fusion/antimater or fission/antimater engines.
One kilogram of antimater would be sufficient to power us to and from
the nearest solar system, at near light speeds. UNfortuneately we can
only make one gram of the stuff every billion years or so, and the
current size of the containment unit is to small to handle even that
much. So we need to advance much further before antimater engines are
possible. BUt the fission/antimater or fusion/antimater engines are
less far off, and work by enhancing how the uranium reactos, or some
such thing. 10 kilograms of uranium to get there, I don't know how
much antimater.

>If it wasn't for war and the lust for political power mankind could easily
>reach for the stars and at least capture the moon or Mars in the attempt. We
>are a bit myopic in that way. The human population on planet Earth is fast
>becoming quite unmanageable. We need an Earth II to put some of these extra
>people onto don't we?

Yup. Problem is, the moon is international property. Meaning anyone
going to the moon and bringing anything back would automatically have
to default the minerals or whatever to world governments. So no one
bothers, despite the huge titanium deposits and other minerals.

>It's easy, once you start on a subject it just becomes a lot of fun to wander
>off in all directions from there. I should know, I do it all the time. :-)

We've noticed. <grin> But it's still interesting. It's harder to
wander in newsgroups though. :-)

Matt

Pat Breeden

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Sep 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/16/96

Captain's Log: StarDate=>>> (Monday) September 16, 1996 7:47am

Quoting a Complex Cryptic Alien Signal From Matt Beazer To All

MB> My 8th grade teacher did something similar, using zinc pellets and
MB> hydrocholric acid. Nice big explosion, and a great stink.
MB> Is that explosive made by using isoprophyl acohol and idodine crystals
MB> to form a kind of (very explosive) paste? Head stories of people
MB> rubbing this stuff on doorknobs at schools and blowing the lock of
MB> whenever anyone touched it later. Pretty unstable when wet, VERY
MB> unstable when dry. (It's said that a slight breeze can set off the
MB> dry stuff if you use pure enough alcohol)

We made that with 30% concentrated ammonia water and iodine crystals. The
instructions said to filter it through a filter paper after you mix it up and
then after it dries out it explodes with the slightest touch or even just
blows up in a slight breeze or even spontaneously. It makes a loud pop when
it explodes. We only made small quantities of it at any one time, so I don't
know what it would do if a person were to mix up a large batch of the stuff.
That would probably cost too much though. I got the chemicals at some local
chemical supply place. I used to have this amateur explosives manual that
told how to make this contact explosive and even nitroglycerin. The manual
got lost over the years, probably lost in a flood up in Alaska where my
parents moved after I had joined the military. All of my personal stuff that
I had was unfortunately stored in the basement of the bank building where my
parents were living. It was right on the ocean and it got flooded out real
bad. Plus I don't even know what they took up there of mine with them or if
they left some stuff behind in Spokane at the time. It's ok though, since
then I've acquired more junk than I can possibly keep track of anyways.
Everybody should have a good flood or fire once in a while. It's better than
a good garage sale to help a person get rid of their extraneous junque. :-)

Meanwhile, back on the subject [I've got to watch that!], you could also order
underwater fuse through the mail. I don't know if you can still do that or
not in this modern contemporary society? I think they'll have to start
restricting some of that kind of stuff nowadays, if they don't already. It's
a shame, but with the unabomber and all of the other airline bombings, what's
a mother to do? Personally I think that if they'd just draw and quarter any
airline highjackers or bombers it might cut back on the perpetrators to the
point where they could take the metal and bomb detectors out of the airports,
but they're not going to listen to me are they? :-) We are going to end up
losing a lot of our freedoms in the name of security because we're dealing
with the victims instead of the perps.

MB> So that's why a friend of mine said that hydrogen powered cars would
MB> be expensive to fuel, since it takes a lot of electricity to produce
MB> the hydrogen. He talked about floating water to hydrogen and oxygen

One sci-fi book I read once talked about making a bacterium to break down the
molecular bond between the atoms in a water molecule to release the hydrogen.
In the book though, the bacteria got loose and got into the ocean with
predictable results. We have already released a bacteria that prevents water
from freezing at the usual 32F to be used to protect crops from freezing.
They tested it on a field and it worked. They said that the bacteria couldn't
get out into the general environment and would die off on it's own. The only
trouble is that the South American bee scientists also had benevolent
intentions when they accidently release the killer bees. It's not nice to
fool with Mother Nature when it gets right down to it. Come to think of it,
we need to do some of this experimenting on Mars where we can't hurt the
environment here on Earth I.

MB> converters, that you could put on the ocean and use solar power to
MB> power 'em, piping the gas to shore. Problem is, can you imagine how
MB> difficult it would be to guard a few thousand of these things? An
MB> ideal target for terrorisim. Big explosion. ;-)

They make some kind of metal hydride fuel cells that are supposed to store the
hydrogen in a more stable form than in a raw gaseous state. Another solution
would be to cool hydrogen to a liquid, which is unfortunately relatively close
to absolute zero.

MB> Golfing on the moon...yeah, talk about long haul tee-offs. 1/10th
MB> gravity and no air means high jumps for asronauts. Think of someone
MB> hitting a ball with a club traveling up to 100mph. ("Yeah, sir. I
MB> think you got a good two, three mile hit there.")

As Beavis and Butt-Head would say, "He he he he, that would be COOL!" :-)
Future rich corporate CEOs could take the space shuttle up there to the moon
and have lunch in the clubhouse and play 18 holes.

MB> That is, if the people protesting the 'unnatual reasearch' don't shut
MB> it down first. Most don't realize that when they eat half the produce
MB> they get from the supermarket they're eating an 'unnatual veggie'.

I haven't heard too much about that recently. I know they are doing a lot of
genetic manipulation with all of our food crops. They were also supposed to
start irradiating a lot of our meat and stuff with Cobalt60 to keep it from
spoiling too weren't they? The FDA is apparently not too concerned with
labeling and notifying the public because either they've been bought off by
the lobbyists or they consider the technology very safe.

MB> I've read about laser-powered ships, using solar sails. They say the
MB> could theoretically set up big solar powered lasers in orbit around
MB> mercury, and send a ship that way, reaching speeds near light.
MB> Problem is, the sail required would be the size of texas. Others are

The solar sails are supposed to work, in theory, I guess. Another one I heard
about is to make a sort of gigantic funnel to act as a scoop in the front of
the ship to scoop up free hydrogen atoms occuring at about 1 atom per cubic
mile, or whatever it was. At relativistic velocities there would supposedly
be enough hydrogen to power the ship's engine.

MB> talking about hybring fusion/antimater or fission/antimater engines.
MB> One kilogram of antimater would be sufficient to power us to and from
MB> the nearest solar system, at near light speeds. UNfortuneately we can

We could also squeeze down regular matter into mini blackhole quantum
singularities to power our spacecraft. There is something called the
Schwarschild radius that is the minimum size an object has to be to collapse
into a blackhole. It's about the size of the sun I think, and I doubt if we
could use our own sun without upsetting those pesky darned environmentalists
once again. They won't let us do anything neat will they? How are we
supposed to get anything done? :-)

With the vast incomprehensible galactic distances involved, any serious space
exploration will either have to be accomplished with multi-generational ships
where the great-great-great...grandchildren will be the actual ones to arrive
at the planet or star to be explored and their
great-great-great...grandchildren will bring the information back to the
Earth, which will have inconveniently stopped spinning and orbits around
either a white dwarf or a red giant sun. So where's the motivation. Where's
the profit motive.

The exploration of space will have to be done through a better understanding
of the true nature of space and time. Maybe you can go anywhere
instantaneously from right here, who knows? Maybe you can't get there from
here? Who's to say that the Earth itself wasn't designed as a space ship to
travel through space towards some other distant point in the universe, as we
are right this very instant traveling through space rather rapidly? If light
is really the ultimate speed in the universe, then maybe we need to convert
the ship into pure light energy and focus it so that it will reconstruct
itself on the other end of the journey back into the spaceship. Or maybe
there are other, as yet unknown, forms of energy and waves that can travel
faster than light. Who knows?

It would be possible to enter a blackhole if the blackhole were about the size
of a galaxy. The astronaut would enter the blackhole at the rim of the galaxy
as the galaxy collapsed into a blackhole. The spaceship wouldn't be crushed
in the usual manner of a smaller blackhole. This would be a one-way trip into
another unknown universe though apparently, but maybe not. Maybe it could
lead to a wormhole that could transport the craft to somewhere else in the
original universe or yet another universe. The possibilities are there.

MB> only make one gram of the stuff every billion years or so, and the
MB> current size of the containment unit is to small to handle even that
MB> much. So we need to advance much further before antimater engines are
MB> possible. BUt the fission/antimater or fusion/antimater engines are
MB> less far off, and work by enhancing how the uranium reactos, or some
MB> such thing. 10 kilograms of uranium to get there, I don't know how
MB> much antimater.

Apparently antimatter shows us that there is a sort of parity with the
components that make up the universe. For every particle there is an
anti-particle. It is even wondered what would happen if a matter galaxy
collided with an anti-matter galaxy. Hopefully this would occur somewhere
near the 4th of July. :-) We are having enough trouble containing our fusion
experiments, let alone trying to contain anti-matter. We already have fusion
that produces more energy than is put into it, so the practical usage of
fusion is just around the corner, but the practical usage of anti-matter may
be quite a long ways off.

MB> Yup. Problem is, the moon is international property. Meaning anyone
MB> going to the moon and bringing anything back would automatically have
MB> to default the minerals or whatever to world governments. So no one
MB> bothers, despite the huge titanium deposits and other minerals.

I think that we should take all of the planets (and moons) in the solar system
and divide all of the property up into 50 x 150 foot lots, then sell the lots
to the highest bidders, with the proceeds going to NASA to finance space
exploration within our solar system. We could even sell the mineral rights to
the highest bidders too. After that, we could start selling off other stars
and planets elsewhere in this galaxy. I doubt if anybody would buy property
in other galaxies though. Only a true speculator would do that. :-) It would
be interesting to see if any of this could actually be done. A person might
be able to make their great-great-great-grandchild rich by purchasing a cheap
lot on the darkside of the moon for $50 bucks that will later be a prime spot
for telescopes. We've sold almost all of the Earth, so why not do it in outer
space and create a new real estate market? It is comical, but it could also
generate a lot of revenue though couldn't it?

Well, at least I managed to stay on the subjects this time anyways. :-)

...Pat
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ş TLX v4.10 ş Captain! Someone has snorted all the dilithium crystals.

Dave Laird

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Sep 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/17/96

Hi Pat!

Pat Breeden <Pat.B...@terrier.circuit.com> wrote in article
<49b_960...@circuit.com>...

>
> Captain's Log: StarDate=>>> (Monday) September 16, 1996 7:47am
> Quoting a Complex Cryptic Alien Signal From Matt Beazer To All

[Welcome to bomb-manufacturing 401 as taught by Dr. Pat (Lefty) Breeden...]
Just when I thought we had discussed everything new in nature in The
Phoenix, you fired up your keyboard and set a new precedent... 8-)

>
> We made that with 30% concentrated ammonia water and iodine crystals.
The
> instructions said to filter it through a filter paper after you mix it up
and
> then after it dries out it explodes with the slightest touch or even just
> blows up in a slight breeze or even spontaneously. It makes a loud pop
when
> it explodes. We only made small quantities of it at any one time, so I
don't
> know what it would do if a person were to mix up a large batch of the
stuff.

The loud pop would become deafening. You have just created a somewhat crude
version of the infamous fertilizer bomb that purportedly blew the front off
the Murrah Building in the Midwest. Instead of a long-chain hydrocarbon
atom (diesel fuel) you have elected to use what I believe would be an
unstable earth metal. While I do not know what effect the difference would
have, I do remember that in an experiment I did after chemistry class, I
blew the roof off an outhouse, for which my butt was tanned rather
liberally with a horsewhip.

> they left some stuff behind in Spokane at the time. It's ok though,
since
> then I've acquired more junk than I can possibly keep track of anyways.
> Everybody should have a good flood or fire once in a while. It's better
than
> a good garage sale to help a person get rid of their extraneous junque.
:-)
>
> Meanwhile, back on the subject [I've got to watch that!], you could also
order

Yeah. We were talking SERIOUS STUFF here a minute ago, weren't we??? 8-)

> underwater fuse through the mail. I don't know if you can still do that
or
> not in this modern contemporary society? I think they'll have to start
> restricting some of that kind of stuff nowadays, if they don't already.
It's
> a shame, but with the unabomber and all of the other airline bombings,
what's
> a mother to do? Personally I think that if they'd just draw and quarter
any
> airline highjackers or bombers it might cut back on the perpetrators to
the
> point where they could take the metal and bomb detectors out of the
airports,
> but they're not going to listen to me are they? :-) We are going to end
up
> losing a lot of our freedoms in the name of security because we're
dealing
> with the victims instead of the perps.

Well, if we are not careful we might lose ALL our freedoms in the name of
freedom. That's like starving to death in a grocery store that was closed
by the government because some of the apples were rotten, isn't it?

> get out into the general environment and would die off on it's own. The
only
> trouble is that the South American bee scientists also had benevolent
> intentions when they accidently release the killer bees. It's not nice
to
> fool with Mother Nature when it gets right down to it. Come to think of
it,
> we need to do some of this experimenting on Mars where we can't hurt the
> environment here on Earth I.

Yeah, but we would shortly be visited by some real aliens from Mars on some
Independence Day where each of us could become part of the movie credits--
permanently. It pays to never piss off a Martian who is having a bad hair
day.... 8-)

> As Beavis and Butt-Head would say, "He he he he, that would be COOL!" :-)

> Future rich corporate CEOs could take the space shuttle up there to the
moon
> and have lunch in the clubhouse and play 18 holes.

There is only one problem which the combined powers of NASA, the NSA, the
FBI and the BMF Society together have not been able to cure in the final
step toward colonization of the moon. PROOT POWER. It seems in the movie,
"Visit to the Moon" by Neil Armstrong, the Untold 24 Minutes They Didn't
Want you to See" there is a picture of two of the astronauts sitting in the
lander hysterically laughing themselves silly watching the other two
astronauts being pinned against the ceiling of the spacecraft due to a
sudden and powerful attack of flatulence. Outside, in their space suits, it
was even worse, as they repeatedly blew holes in their suits and overloaded
their air purification units. Oh, it was terrible, terrible, I tell you...

> spoiling too weren't they? The FDA is apparently not too concerned with
> labeling and notifying the public because either they've been bought off
by
> the lobbyists or they consider the technology very safe.

What do you mean, Pat??? The FDA is OWNED by the lobbyists. 8-(

> With the vast incomprehensible galactic distances involved, any serious
space
> exploration will either have to be accomplished with multi-generational
ships
> where the great-great-great...grandchildren will be the actual ones to
arrive
> at the planet or star to be explored and their
> great-great-great...grandchildren will bring the information back to the
> Earth, which will have inconveniently stopped spinning and orbits around
> either a white dwarf or a red giant sun. So where's the motivation.
Where's
> the profit motive.

Reruns and sequels, Pat. I just started reading the paperback edition of
the sequel to Jurassic Park. This time the dinosaurs WIN. 8-) Then when I
read the part of your message about inter-galactic space travel in
generational ships, I realized what the profit motive was... RERUNS.
Sheesh! I don't think mankind has progressed that much since the invention
of the television, has he?

> I think that we should take all of the planets (and moons) in the solar
system
> and divide all of the property up into 50 x 150 foot lots, then sell the
lots
> to the highest bidders, with the proceeds going to NASA to finance space
> exploration within our solar system. We could even sell the mineral
rights to
> the highest bidders too. After that, we could start selling off other
stars
> and planets elsewhere in this galaxy. I doubt if anybody would buy
property
> in other galaxies though. Only a true speculator would do that. :-) It
would

Or an alien culture looking for a cheap bargain, but not otherwise being
too terribly bright. You could spot them because they were the ones
SERIOUSLY dickering. 8-)

> be interesting to see if any of this could actually be done. A person
might
> be able to make their great-great-great-grandchild rich by purchasing a
cheap
> lot on the darkside of the moon for $50 bucks that will later be a prime
spot
> for telescopes. We've sold almost all of the Earth, so why not do it in
outer
> space and create a new real estate market? It is comical, but it could
also
> generate a lot of revenue though couldn't it?

That it could. Getting the Realtors up there to put up all their signs
would be a considerable undertaking all of its own, wouldn't it? Wait a
minute... as many politicians as we currently have that are presently or
formerly real estate agents/brokers, couldn't we run a few "explorations"
with experimental rockets first, just to make certain that the technology
was functional? Sure....

>
> Well, at least I managed to stay on the subjects this time anyways. :-)

Aye, that you did. I am totally flabbergasted. 8-) 8-)

Dave
--

*************** Dave Laird, Moderator of The Phoenix Echo, Newsgroup and
Listserv ************
*************** One of Spokane's most outrageous, unpredictable authors
EVER!!! ************
*************** dla...@cet.com dave la...@phoenix.circuit.com
************

Matt Beazer

unread,

Sep 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/18/96

Pat.B...@terrier.circuit.com (Pat Breeden) wrote:

My 8th grade teacher did something similar, using zinc pellets and

hydrocholric acid. Nice big explosion, and a great stink.

Is that explosive made by using isoprophyl acohol and idodine crystals

to form a kind of (very explosive) paste? Head stories of people

rubbing this stuff on doorknobs at schools and blowing the lock of

whenever anyone touched it later. Pretty unstable when wet, VERY

unstable when dry. (It's said that a slight breeze can set off the

dry stuff if you use pure enough alcohol)

So that's why a friend of mine said that hydrogen powered cars would

be expensive to fuel, since it takes a lot of electricity to produce

the hydrogen. He talked about floating water to hydrogen and oxygen

converters, that you could put on the ocean and use solar power to

power 'em, piping the gas to shore. Problem is, can you imagine how

difficult it would be to guard a few thousand of these things? An

ideal target for terrorisim. Big explosion. ;-)

>Yeah, with water you could always manufacture the oxygen you'd need, but

>wouldn't oxygen be more of a priority than water <just kidding>. A moon
>colony would have to be all sealed up like the biosphere project. The moon's
>gravity is too small to be able to terraform, so any golfing on the grass
>carpeting would have to be done indoors.

Golfing on the moon...yeah, talk about long haul tee-offs. 1/10th

gravity and no air means high jumps for asronauts. Think of someone

hitting a ball with a club traveling up to 100mph. ("Yeah, sir. I

think you got a good two, three mile hit there.")

>Mars does have frozen water at the

>polar regions and also has enough gravity to hold an atmosphere, if it were
>constantly replaced due to the loss of atmosphere to outer space. A moon
>colony would be feasible because of it's relatively closer proximity to Earth,
>but a Martian colony would be a better prospect to terraform and maybe someday
>be able to walk around outside without a space suit on. We should hurry up
>and test for life for sure on Mars, despite the recent meteorite, and either
>confirm or deny the existence of aboriginal life there. If it turns out to be
>a lifeless rock or if the native life there is nothing too special, then we
>should be able to terraform Mars without much resistance from the solar system
>environmentalists that will no doubt be hell bent to preserve the Martian
>landscape in it's pristine condition, although for the life of me I can't
>imagine why? :-)

But we'd disturb the natual, barren, rocky landscape! I mean, who

would be able to look out on it and feel depressed? What about the
people who love the color red? <grin>

> MB> They're working on projects where they use robots, programmed with

> MB> basic instructions, to build solar panel arrays in the desert. Mining

>It's a good thing they're not using my computer for this. My computer is
>about as reliable as a chainsaw. :-)

Running Windows 95? <snicker> (Couldn't resist that one)

>We (meaning them, I'm too stupid for it) can either program robots to do this

>using our current robotic technology, or if we end up waiting for 20 or 30
>years from now we will possibly have nanotechnology going gangbusters by then.
> We could possibly have miniature nanobots to do all of this prep work
>building solar panels and whatnot. We can also assume that our biotech
>sciences will be able to possibly customize DNA encoded organisms to interact
>with the lunar or Martian soil to extract minerals or chemically alter the
>soil to our specifications.

That is, if the people protesting the 'unnatual reasearch' don't shut

it down first. Most don't realize that when they eat half the produce

they get from the supermarket they're eating an 'unnatual veggie'.

>It wouldn't be a bad idea to have a second off-world society for mankind, such

>as a Martian or lunar colony. It would sure be a crying shame for this
>species we call mankind to accidently wipe itself out via nuclear war or an
>escaped military virus before we ever got a chance to explore the far reaches
>of our own solar system, our own galaxy, and eventually our whole universe.
>Maybe even someday we could join the United Federation of Planets and pay a
>galactic income tax or something too? :-) Hey, it could happen.

I've read about laser-powered ships, using solar sails. They say the

could theoretically set up big solar powered lasers in orbit around

mercury, and send a ship that way, reaching speeds near light.

Problem is, the sail required would be the size of texas. Others are

talking about hybring fusion/antimater or fission/antimater engines.

One kilogram of antimater would be sufficient to power us to and from

the nearest solar system, at near light speeds. UNfortuneately we can

only make one gram of the stuff every billion years or so, and the

current size of the containment unit is to small to handle even that

much. So we need to advance much further before antimater engines are

possible. BUt the fission/antimater or fusion/antimater engines are

less far off, and work by enhancing how the uranium reactos, or some

such thing. 10 kilograms of uranium to get there, I don't know how

much antimater.

Yup. Problem is, the moon is international property. Meaning anyone

going to the moon and bringing anything back would automatically have

to default the minerals or whatever to world governments. So no one

bothers, despite the huge titanium deposits and other minerals.

>It's easy, once you start on a subject it just becomes a lot of fun to wander

>off in all directions from there. I should know, I do it all the time. :-)

We've noticed. <grin> But it's still interesting. It's harder to

RW Salnick

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

In article <01bba460$60cec580$3a5a60ce@Pdlaird> "Dave Laird" <dla...@cet.com> writes:
>Hi Pat!
>
>Pat Breeden <Pat.B...@terrier.circuit.com> wrote in article
><49b_960...@circuit.com>...
>>
>> Captain's Log: StarDate=>>> (Monday) September 16, 1996 7:47am
>> Quoting a Complex Cryptic Alien Signal From Matt Beazer To All
>
>[Welcome to bomb-manufacturing 401 as taught by Dr. Pat (Lefty) Breeden...]
>Just when I thought we had discussed everything new in nature in The
>Phoenix, you fired up your keyboard and set a new precedent... 8-)
>>
>> We made that with 30% concentrated ammonia water and iodine crystals.
>The
>> instructions said to filter it through a filter paper after you mix it up
>and
>> then after it dries out it explodes with the slightest touch or even just
>> blows up in a slight breeze or even spontaneously. It makes a loud pop
>when
>> it explodes. We only made small quantities of it at any one time, so I
>don't
>> know what it would do if a person were to mix up a large batch of the
>stuff.
>
>The loud pop would become deafening. You have just created a somewhat crude
>version of the infamous fertilizer bomb that purportedly blew the front off
>the Murrah Building in the Midwest. Instead of a long-chain hydrocarbon

NO. Not even close. NI3 is not even remotely related to Ammonium
Nitrate/Fuel Oil explosives - which is what the initial speculation was
for the explosive in the FBI building blast. Later analyses were far less
sure, but by then the press had it in its teeth (if you read it in the
newspaper, it is Truth... right?).

Worldwide, more tons of coal and rock are moved with ANFO than any other
explosive.

>Well, if we are not careful we might lose ALL our freedoms in the name of
>freedom. That's like starving to death in a grocery store that was closed

Amen. I believe it was Jefferson who said, "The price of freedom is
eternal vigilance."

--
********* Wanted: 1968 GTO parts *************
RW Salnick, Spokane,WA | Home: sal...@dejavu.spk.wa.us
Amiga 3000, WB 2.1 | Work: sal...@mfgsys.kaiser.spk.wa.us
WA9BVE |
-----------------
No free man shall ever be de-barred the use of arms. The strongest
reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is
as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
- Thomas Jefferson
-----------------
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Dave Laird

unread,

Sep 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/20/96

Hello Bob!

Thursday September 19 1996 05:53, RW Salnick wrote to All:

RS> @GID GIGO+ sn 496 at circuit vsn 0.99.950801
RS> From: sal...@dejavu.spk.wa.us (RW Salnick)
RS> Subject: Re: Mountain Tops...

RS> In article <01bba460$60cec580$3a5a60ce@Pdlaird> "Dave Laird"

RS> <dla...@cet.com> writes:
>>
>> Pat Breeden <Pat.B...@terrier.circuit.com> wrote in article
>> <49b_960...@circuit.com>...
>>>
>>> Captain's Log: StarDate=>>> (Monday) September 16, 1996 7:47am
>>> Quoting a Complex Cryptic Alien Signal From Matt Beazer To All
>>
>> [Welcome to bomb-manufacturing 401 as taught by Dr. Pat (Lefty)
>> Breeden...] Just when I thought we had discussed everything new in
>> nature in The Phoenix, you fired up your keyboard and set a new
>> precedent... 8-) We made that with 30% concentrated ammonia water and
>> iodine crystals. The instructions said to filter it through a filter
>> paper after you mix it up and then after it dries out it explodes
>> with the slightest touch or even just blows up in a slight breeze or
>> even spontaneously. It makes a loud pop when it explodes. We only
>> made small quantities of it at any one time, so I don't know what it
>> would do if a person were to mix up a large batch of the stuff. The
>> loud pop would become deafening. You have just created a somewhat
>> crude version of the infamous fertilizer bomb that purportedly blew
>> the front off the Murrah Building in the Midwest. Instead of a
>> long-chain hydrocarbon

RS> NO. Not even close. NI3 is not even remotely related to Ammonium
RS> Nitrate/Fuel Oil explosives - which is what the initial speculation
RS> was for the explosive in the FBI building blast. Later analyses were
RS> far less sure, but by then the press had it in its teeth (if you read
RS> it in the newspaper, it is Truth... right?).

<Dave gulps, and facing the camera, mutters...> Uh, right Bob. 8-)

RS> Worldwide, more tons of coal and rock are moved with ANFO than any
RS> other explosive.

But not the fronts of Federal Buildings. You would think that the
revolutionaries would have considered that as a low-cost alternative to diesel
fuel...

>> Well, if we are not careful we might lose ALL our freedoms in the
>> name of freedom. That's like starving to death in a grocery store
>> that was closed

RS> Amen. I believe it was Jefferson who said, "The price of freedom is
RS> eternal vigilance."

I think it was Chris Anderson who said, "Where's my paycheck? You be vigilant.
I'm outta here..." 8-(

Dave

It is clear that thought is not free if the profession of certain
opinions makes it impossible to earn a living. [Bertrand Russell]

... Other than that, how'd you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?
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