Working with matrixed/encoded surround material, lot of problems...

[Dorian]

Hi folks,

This has drived me nuts for the whole day, so i'll try to explain the
problem (sorry i'm not english fluent). All these examples are made
through Rewire inside Pro Tools LE 8.0.1cs1 (Complete PTK), with 2
stereo Aux (SM L/R and Ls/Rs) and 2 mono Aux (C and Lfe) with the SM
Rewire Engine (latest from 4.1.8.108).


First example with a double-MS sound (3 channels, front cardioid, bi-
dir (fig.8), and rear cardioid).
http://www.zumodrive.com/share/1Zt4Mzk5ZT

1st case:
- open the VST window, and select DoubleMSTool from Schoeps (5.0
output)
- the channels are not outputed correctly (L goes to L (ok), C goes to
R, R goes to C, Ls goes to Lfe, and Rs goes to Rs (ok)). Unfortunately
there's no way to reorder the channels in the plugin.

2nd case:
- open the VST window, and select the DMS2Five from Daniel Courville
(5.1 output)
- hopefully the DMS2Five allows to choose between different channels
ordering, so i can get a correct monitoring with selecting the
"LCRLsRsLfe" (Film standard)

In any case, if i try to spot or bring the sound in Pro Tools, only 2
channels are transfered (didn't dig which).


Second example with an ambisonic file (4 channels, W, X, Y and Z).
http://www.zumodrive.com/share/1ZmcNGRjOD
Note that you'll have to remove all metadatas in order for the sound
to play thourgh Rewire (see other thread).

1st case:
- open the VST window, and select the Surround Zone from Soundfield
(5.1 output)
- the channels are not outputed correctly (L goes to L, C goes to C, R
goes to R, but Lfe goes to Ls, Ls goes to Rs, and Rs goes to Lfe)

2nd case:
- open the VST window, and select the B2G from Daniel Courville (5.1
output)
- no matter what output order you choose in the plugin (3 modes, Film,
SMPTE/ITU, and DTS), there is always something wrong at the output

In any case, if i try to spot or bring the sound in Pro Tools, only 2
channels are transfered (didn't dig which).

All this is really crazy, and driving me nuts ;-) .

I'm really happy to see Soundminer is supporting multichannel VST
plugins (and dynamically !), but there's obviously something wrong
here, isn't it ?

I hope i'm understandable. Any advices would be greatly appreciated.

Bye.

PS: The Daniel Courville's plugins (AU and VST) are freely available
here:
http://www.radio.uqam.ca/ambisonic/
The Schoeps DoubleMSTool is available for free on request here:
http://www.schoeps.de/dmsplugin.html

[Dorian]

A detail concerning spotting, no matter if i choose a track that has
the same number of channels as the source (say 3 for DoubleMS and 4
for ambisonic), or the number of channels of the dematrixing/decoding
though VST (5.0 or 5.1), always 2 channels are transfered.

Bye.

[Justin]

I just checked and the current code(which is slated to be addressed in
the new year) could use the plugin to determine the number of output
channels(instead of just 2). As we don't have time to test it, it'll
stay 2 at current and require a special pref change written in the
terminal to enable the new behaviour.

Interested?

[Dorian]

Sure ;-) .
Of course, I'll give feedback if interested (Pro Tools 8 and Nuendo 4
on the Mac, Pyramix 6 on the PC).

Bye.

[Dorian]

Tested with the latest 4.2b6 (new behaviour enabled in Terminal), a
correct ChannelLayout (L/R/C/LFE/Ls/Rs uppercase/lowercase
important !), and the monitoring now works perfectly with Pro Tools !
Spotting/bringing surround material works too, even decoded thourgh
VST !!! Great thanks Justin !
A little exception with the VST plugin SurroundZone from Soundfield
which bring a (OSStatus error -1301.).

With Nuendo, it's strange, cause the Rewire Surround channels are
declared mono, and spotting in multichannel tracks doesn't work (all
tracks are transfered but piled), maybe because of wrong settings in
the Transfer prefs (i didn't dig too much).

Anyway, thanks !

Bye.

[Justin]

Cool, thanks Dorian...

sps200 plugin is working over here for me.(At least it launches and
shows its editor, and playing audio passes it through all its meters)

Maybe re-download and install the plugin?

(I'm running 10.6.2)

[Dorian]

Yes, monitoring works well with the SurroundZone, but i get this
OSStatus error only when transfering/spotting a sound through the
plugin, and only with Pro Tools 8. With Nuendo it's ok, even if i get
2 empty more tracks (7.1) in the process.
I tried with the free SP200 version too (i use the regular $$$
SurroundZone :-( ), same error.

Honestly this is not a big deal, as i'm always bypassing the plugin
when transfering/spotting (with the B2X and DoubleMSTool too), and
then the error vanished.

While we're talking transfering/spotting special sounds that have a
different number of input/output (kind of), it would be great to have
the ability to monitor through VST, but to transfer without the VST
process (automatically), like it used to be in v3 IIRC (via prefs or
in the main interface) ? It's great to be able to monitor through
these plugins, but i always need to transfer the original source
material (3 channels for DMS, and 4 for ambisonic, unprocessed). ATM
i'm toggling the global bypass in the VST window intensively, and
cross my fingers not to forget it :-) .

Bye.