Article on Sun's DTrace

b...@spc.org

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Jun 29, 2004, 9:17:02 PM6/29/04

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This recently caught my eye:
http://www.samag.com/documents/s=9171/sam0406h/0406h.htm

There are a number of good sounding suggestions in there.

BMS
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j...@freebsd.org

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Jun 29, 2004, 9:39:08 PM6/29/04

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On Tuesday 29 June 2004 09:16 pm, Bruce M Simpson wrote:
> This recently caught my eye:
> http://www.samag.com/documents/s=9171/sam0406h/0406h.htm
>
> There are a number of good sounding suggestions in there.

They gave a paper on it at USENIX ATC as well.

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d...@freebsd.org

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Jul 5, 2004, 6:38:33 AM7/5/04

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On Wed, Jun 30, 2004, Bruce M Simpson wrote:
> This recently caught my eye:
> http://www.samag.com/documents/s=9171/sam0406h/0406h.htm
>
> There are a number of good sounding suggestions in there.

DTrace is pure magic. It would be well worth your time to install
Solaris 10 just to try out DTrace for a day. Keep in mind,
however, that it took them several man-years to develop just for
sparc64 and x86, so we're not talking about a port of it any time
soon...

e-k...@trio.plala.or.jp

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Jul 5, 2004, 8:28:42 AM7/5/04

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HI Schultz and all,

David Schultz wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 30, 2004, Bruce M Simpson wrote:
>
>
>> This recently caught my eye:
>> http://www.samag.com/documents/s=9171/sam0406h/0406h.htm
>>
>> There are a number of good sounding suggestions in there.
>>
>
> DTrace is pure magic. It would be well worth your time to install
> Solaris 10 just to try out DTrace for a day. Keep in mind,
> however, that it took them several man-years to develop just for
> sparc64 and x86, so we're not talking about a port of it any time
> soon...
>
>

Is DTrace open source? I know presence of DTrace. But
Sun's products usually aren't open source especially OS
itself. Recently JS(Sun's COO and president) announced
Solaris might be open source in the near future. But he often
tells a lie, sorry this may be unsuitable, tells a something uncertain.

Eitarou

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e-k...@trio.plala.or.jp

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Jul 5, 2004, 9:17:10 AM7/5/04

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Hi,

David Schultz wrote:

>On Wed, Jun 30, 2004, Bruce M Simpson wrote:
>
>
>>This recently caught my eye:
>>http://www.samag.com/documents/s=9171/sam0406h/0406h.htm
>>
>>There are a number of good sounding suggestions in there.
>>
>>
>
>DTrace is pure magic. It would be well worth your time to install
>Solaris 10 just to try out DTrace for a day. Keep in mind,
>however, that it took them several man-years to develop just for
>sparc64 and x86, so we're not talking about a port of it any time
>soon...
>
>

v...@freebsd.org

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Jul 5, 2004, 9:32:21 AM7/5/04

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In local.freebsd-hackers, you wrote:
> I haven't seen above well yet. But A article says that DTrace sounds
> like 30,000 lines of debug print.

No, already the first article tells you that they use a VM with byte-code
for the C-like language "D". And it's not compiled into the kernel but
hooked in and removed on-the-fly.

Volker
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e-k...@trio.plala.or.jp

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Jul 5, 2004, 9:53:45 AM7/5/04

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Hi Volker and all,

Volker Stolz wrote:

>In local.freebsd-hackers, you wrote:
>
>
>>I haven't seen above well yet. But A article says that DTrace sounds
>>like 30,000 lines of debug print.
>>
>>
>
>No, already the first article tells you that they use a VM with byte-code
>for the C-like language "D". And it's not compiled into the kernel but
>hooked in and removed on-the-fly.
>
>Volker
>
>

I don't know langage "D" well. But my guess is that they trim the info
valuable from the debug print outputs. Sorry I haven't read the
articles compleately yet.

Eitarou

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nic...@quebecbsd.org

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Jul 7, 2004, 2:41:17 AM7/7/04

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> FreeBSD has good features such as jail, chroot e.t.c. which can controll
> process or resources in parallel. So you need not port DTrace entirely.

I think the control of ressources in a jail is very limited right now. I
don't know if some work in that direction is in progress but it would be a
great project for the future.

> You can implement DTrace like one from scratch. Using legacy system
> sometimes makes new system feature. I would rather expect new one than
> porting. DTrace is one of example, I think. You may be able to fork new
> debug
> process in parallel in the future. If I dare name it, It's "B(SD)Trace"?
> But it's up to
> your effort. DTrace is a pioneer work. And for the people like me who
> bothers
> to put the debug lines in kernel this must be powerful tool.

Dtrace is (seems, at least) to be a very powerful tool. Eventual coders
could/should get their inspiration out of the work of Sun engineers. But
remember, the volunteers of the FreeBSD project aren't paid to do what
they do. 2 years and 3 full-time engineers were needed to accomplish
Dtrace so I think seeing a similar utility in the near future for FreeBSD
is very hopeless.

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e-k...@trio.plala.or.jp

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Jul 8, 2004, 1:23:11 AM7/8/04

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Hi Dan N,

Dan Nelson wrote:

>In the last episode (Jul 07), David Schultz said:
>
>
>
>Pawel Jakub Dawidek has already written a C-like language for his
>Cerber project that looks like it could be used for a FreeBSD DTrace.
>It doesn't support associative arrays for stat collecting like D does,
>but it's got just about everything else. If you just wanted to track
>syscalls, you could almost use Cerber as-is.
>
>http://cerber.sourceforge.net/
>
>
>
Indeed, he have already made a action.

Eitarou

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e-k...@trio.plala.or.jp

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Jul 8, 2004, 10:02:52 AM7/8/04

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Hi,

Avleen Vig wrote:

>
>They said "6 staff-years". This means if they have 6 people working on
>it full time, it took 1 year to complete. If they had 60 people full
>time, it took just over 5 weeks (technically, i doubt that would work
>practically).
>
>>From speaking to a friend at sun, I do know it took a long time and a
>lot of effort, and was *not* a simple thing to implement.
>
>
They may say so to add value-added. But I have never run it.
So I don't know what it is. They ought to finish Solaris10 itself before
DTrace...
Say hello to Sun guys.

ha...@freebsd.org

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Jul 8, 2004, 6:03:38 PM7/8/04

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On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 d...@des.no wrote:

> Avleen Vig <lists-...@silverwraith.com> writes:
>> They said "6 staff-years".
>

> No, they said three engineers working full-time for two years.

So if we put all committers on this it would take us not more than two
days :-)

harti

nic...@quebecbsd.org

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Jul 8, 2004, 11:42:53 PM7/8/04

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David Schultz said:
> But if you *do* happen to know 60 good programmers who are willing
> to work on FreeBSD full time for very little money, let me know
> and I'll see what I can do about that baby thing.

Repartition of tasks would take more time than programming. I think the
key to that kind of project is have a few selected, talented programmers
working in a relatively small team with no time constraint.

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cha...@confusion.at

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Jul 24, 2004, 9:41:39 AM7/24/04

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> But if you *do* happen to know 60 good programmers who are willing
> to work on FreeBSD full time for very little money, let me know
> and I'll see what I can do about that baby thing.

the great idea:
get a bank account, ask users if they throw an 1$ (1eur) on it and let
some indian (or something else) work on it.

i think the idea is not as bad.

bye, Ingo