a follow-on question for you, after my blithering blog posting - software_craftsmanship

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Message from discussion a follow-on question for you, after my blithering blog posting
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From: David Starr <da...@elegantcode.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 06:34:59 -0600
Message-ID: <CAK+rn6yMqY13X3VhdC52o_S1Q2Mm_O4UDYWuysDT24-zUwR...@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [SC] Re: a follow-on question for you, after my blithering blog posting
To: software_craftsmanship@googlegroups.com
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Not use Agile on high tolerance (quality) projects? What?

I would feel far better about pacemaker firmware developed iterative and
incrementally than plan-driven. Further, I have worked with many
organizations successfully creating highly reliable and critical software
solutions using agile methods.

Please don't give the impression that agile = low quality. Quite the
opposite. If your quality is low, agile software development is how you make
it better.

*David Starr
**Scrum.org* <http://Scrum.org> - *Improving the Profession of Software
Development*
Blog: elegantcode.com | @elegantcoder




On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 3:06 AM, David Wilde <djwi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Agile has pitfalls. For example it needs the right culture to thrive in. It
> will only work well if the whole company has bought into the idea of it. You
> also wouldn't want to use Agile methods on a project that requires extreme
> quality. That's not to say that it would be the wrong choice in your line of
> work.
>
> However Agile HAS gained acceptance in the industry. It may not be as
> widespread as it should be but I wouldn't count someone suggesting Agile
> process as something massively radical any more. Most employers would have
> at least have heard of it nowadays.
>
> Suggesting something like continuous deployment/continuous delivery like
> flickr are doing probably would be. This does have real benefits but I would
> imagine that there are people at flickr that will be able to say how
> difficult it would have been to put this in place. I can imagine that for
> many companies, the effort involved in moving to this would not have a
> return on investment.
>
> There are very few 'No brain-ers'. Most ideas will have pitfalls and I
> reiterate that if someone cannot tell you the pros and cons in business
> speak of something radical, then be very cautious. It goes back to what I
> think Raoul was suggesting. You wouldn't want someone so blinkered to a new
> idea/movement.
>
> David
>
>
> On 20 September 2011 23:51, Curtis Cooley <curtis.coo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 6:04 AM, David Wilde <djwi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > When I said few people are better than the industry, I didn't mean
>> better
>> > than the average. I meant that very few people have such  radical ideas
>> that
>> > can change the way that things can be done for the better. If they
>> suggest
>> > things to you as an employer that you haven't heard of but can't
>> describe
>> > the pitfalls of these approaches, then ask yourself; why isn't this
>> practice
>> > industry standard?
>> > Hope this explains it more clearly.
>> > David
>> >
>>
>> Change moves at the speed of smell. Look at agile development. It's
>> over 10 years old and still struggles to gain "main stream"
>> acceptance. I work in a waterfall environment. Please read that last
>> sentence again to make sure you didn't imagine it.
>>
>> I think it is very easy for me to keep on the cutting edge of software
>> development techniques and practices and be way ahead of industry
>> standards. Not that the cutting edge is always the best, but I feel
>> it's pretty easy to stay ahead, and I do not practice nearly as much
>> as the leaders in the craftsmanship movement.
>>
>> --
>> Curtis Cooley
>> curtis.coo...@gmail.com
>> blog:http://ponderingobjectorienteddesign.blogspot.com
>> ===============
>> Leadership is a potent combination of strategy and character. But if
>> you must be without one, be without the strategy.
>> -- H. Norman Schwarzkopf
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "software_craftsmanship" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to
>> software_craftsmanship@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> software_craftsmanship+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/software_craftsmanship?hl=en.
>>
>>
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Not use Agile on high tolerance (quality) projects? What?<div><br></div><di=
v>I would feel far better about pacemaker firmware developed iterative and =
incrementally than plan-driven. Further, I have worked with many organizati=
ons successfully creating highly reliable and critical software solutions u=
sing agile methods.</div>

<div><br></div><div>Please don&#39;t give the impression that agile =3D low=
 quality. Quite the opposite. If your quality is low, agile software develo=
pment is how you make it better.</div><div><br clear=3D"all"><div><b>David =
Starr<br>

</b><a href=3D"http://Scrum.org" target=3D"_blank"><font color=3D"#666666" =
size=3D"1"><em>Scrum.org</em></font></a><font color=3D"#666666"><font size=
=3D"1"> -=A0<i>Improving the Profession of Software Development</i></font><=
/font></div>

<div><font color=3D"#666666" size=3D"1">Blog:=A0</font><a href=3D"http://el=
egantcode.com/" target=3D"_blank"><font color=3D"#666666" size=3D"1">elegan=
tcode.com</font></a><font color=3D"#666666" size=3D"1">=A0| @elegantcoder <=
br></font></div>

<div><br></div><br>
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 3:06 AM, David W=
ilde <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:djwi...@gmail.com">djwilde@gma=
il.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">

Agile has pitfalls. For example it needs the right culture to thrive in. It=
 will only work well if the whole company has bought into the idea of it. Y=
ou also wouldn&#39;t want to use Agile methods on a project that requires e=
xtreme quality. That&#39;s not to say that it would be the wrong choice in =
your line of work.=A0<div>


<br></div><div>However Agile HAS gained acceptance in the industry. It may =
not be as widespread as it should be but I wouldn&#39;t count someone sugge=
sting Agile process as something massively radical=A0any more. Most employe=
rs would have at least have heard of it nowadays.=A0</div>


<div><br></div><div>Suggesting something like continuous deployment/continu=
ous delivery like flickr are doing probably would be. This does have real b=
enefits but I would imagine that there are people at flickr that will be ab=
le to say how difficult it would have been to put this in place. I can imag=
ine that for many companies, the effort involved in moving to this would no=
t have a return on investment.</div>


<div><br></div><div>There are very few &#39;No brain-ers&#39;. Most ideas w=
ill have pitfalls and I reiterate that if someone cannot tell you the pros =
and cons in business speak of something radical, then be very cautious. It =
goes back to what I think Raoul was suggesting. You wouldn&#39;t want someo=
ne so blinkered to a new idea/movement.</div>


<div><br></div><font color=3D"#888888"><div>David</div></font><div><div></d=
iv><div class=3D"h5"><div><div><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 2=
0 September 2011 23:51, Curtis Cooley <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:curtis.coo...@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">curtis.coo...@gmail.com</a>&g=
t;</span> wrote:<br>


<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 6:04 AM, David =
Wilde &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:djwi...@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">djwilde@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>



&gt; When I said few people are better than the industry, I didn&#39;t mean=
 better<br>
&gt; than the average. I meant that very few people have such =A0radical id=
eas that<br>
&gt; can change the way that things can be done for the better. If they sug=
gest<br>
&gt; things to you as an employer that you haven&#39;t heard of but can&#39=
;t describe<br>
&gt; the pitfalls of these approaches, then ask yourself; why isn&#39;t thi=
s practice<br>
&gt; industry standard?<br>
&gt; Hope this explains it more clearly.<br>
&gt; David<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</div>Change moves at the speed of smell. Look at agile development. It&#39=
;s<br>
over 10 years old and still struggles to gain &quot;main stream&quot;<br>
acceptance. I work in a waterfall environment. Please read that last<br>
sentence again to make sure you didn&#39;t imagine it.<br>
<br>
I think it is very easy for me to keep on the cutting edge of software<br>
development techniques and practices and be way ahead of industry<br>
standards. Not that the cutting edge is always the best, but I feel<br>
it&#39;s pretty easy to stay ahead, and I do not practice nearly as much<br=
>
as the leaders in the craftsmanship movement.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Curtis Cooley<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:curtis.coo...@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">curtis.cooley@=
gmail.com</a><br>
blog:<a href=3D"http://ponderingobjectorienteddesign.blogspot.com" target=
=3D"_blank">http://ponderingobjectorienteddesign.blogspot.com</a><br>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
Leadership is a potent combination of strategy and character. But if<br>
you must be without one, be without the strategy.<br>
-- H. Norman Schwarzkopf<br>
<font color=3D"#888888"><br>
--<br>
</font><div><div></div><div>You received this message because you are subsc=
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To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:software_craftsmansh=
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<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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