Who breaks software?

[katrina mcnicholl]

Hi everyone..

 

Who breaks software? A question I have often found myself discussing with both Tester and Developer and just as recent as last week with a collegue.

 

So I put this question to you all.... In your opinion, 'Who breaks Software?' 

 

Cheers

Katrina

[David Robinson]

Chicken and egg.

It may be broken by dev, but if a tree falls in an empty forest?

But testers will highlight the broken parts. But apportioning blame
never helps. Work as one team and get it fixed, testers are there to
help devs and on the same team.

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Software Testers New Zealand" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to software-testers-new...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to
> software-teste...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/software-testers-new-zealand?hl=en.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>

[David Robinson]

Though then sometimes testers do get the sledge hammer out and will
make something break.

Also why limit to dev and test the BAs can also break it from the outset?

[Darryn Mercer]

If we take broken to mean 'cause to become inoperative', then I suppose it depends on how it breaks. If the software was not working properly and the tester discovers it, then it was broken by whoever wrote the incorrect software. If it was working OK and then something the tester did caused it to become inoperative, then it was the tester (though it could be argued that the fact that the tester was able to do so meant that the software wasn't 'operative' to begin with).

Does this really matter, though? Whether the software is 'broken' or is able to be 'broken' by the user, it still needs fixing.

[Andrew Robins]

Generally, the person who conceived the original idea.

--
Test Manager, Tait Radio Communications

---

This email, including any attachments, is only for the intended recipient. It is subject to copyright, is confidential and may be the subject of legal or other privilege, none of which is waived or lost by reason of this transmission.

If you are not an intended recipient, you may not use, disseminate, distribute or reproduce such email, any attachments, or any part thereof. If you have received a message in error, please notify the sender immediately and erase all copies of the message and any attachments.

Unfortunately, we cannot warrant that the email has not been altered or corrupted during transmission nor can we guarantee that any email or any attachments are free from computer viruses or other conditions which may damage or interfere with recipient data, hardware or software. The recipient relies upon its own procedures and assumes all risk of use and of opening any attachments.

---

[olivernz]

Hi,

Sorry I don't understand the question. Who are you asking about? The person that goes and actively brakes it/detects a defect or the person inserting the defect, thereby breaking the software?

Cheers Oliver

[simon_...@westpac.co.nz]

Great answer!

'Generally, the person who conceived the original idea.'

	Simon Rigler Test Manager Testing Services - Westpac Information Technology
	Tel: +64 4 4607 104 (Ext: 47104)	Westpac New Zealand Limited
	Fax: +64 4 494 7710	Level 7, 1 Grey Street
	Email: simon_...@westpac.co.nz	PO Box 691
		Wellington
	Web: http://www.westpac.co.nz	New Zealand
	join us on	Please only print this e-mail if absolutely necessary.

The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may be legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient please advise the sender immediately and delete the email and attachments.  Any use, dissemination, reproduction or distribution of this email and any attachments by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited.


_________________________ _________________________ ____________________
The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please advise the sender immediately and delete the email and attachments. Any use, dissemination, reproduction or distribution of this email and any attachments by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited.

The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you have received this communication by mistake, please advise the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. Nothing in this email designates an information system for the purposes of Section 11(a) of the New Zealand Electronic Transactions Act 2002. Westpac New Zealand Limited.

[David Greenlees]

really?  that depends on what you mean by 'conceived' and 'idea'.

when i read that i think of perhaps someone from the business who one day says, "geez it would be good if we had an application that could do that!"... then they right a business case, etc.  surely they aren't the ones who 'break' the software?

or do you mean something completely different when using those two terms?

[Andrew Robins]

I was being a bit tongue in cheek.

But it is an easy case to make

• How many times do we see solutions that are pitched as being universal, that really only work from one perspective, and for a small group?
• How many times do we see solutions being pitched that are more complicated, fragile, and less flexible than what they propose to replace?
• etc

Feel free to add to the list.

Cheers

Andrew

[David Greenlees]

Good points... and I guess this brings us back to Oliver's question... i.e. what is meant by 'broken'?

Your points could be seen as examples of 'broken' software, or they may not.

[katrina mcnicholl]

I love it... Thank you for your thoughts.

 

You would be surprised to learn how many Testers I have had in my time try and convince me that we Testers 'Break Software'...

I am pleased to hear I am not alone when I say yes Testers are powerful, but we do not break anything, we uncover what is broken then reflect and report on its quality.. All comments shared here reflect exactly that.

 

Of course it does not matter how the software got broken, of course we are all one project team working towards delivering the best software possible. It just annoys me to learn there are still testers out there with high and mighty attitudes stomping around saying how they break software or worse still they say it directly to a member of a project team, from Design to Dev even to a PMO... "I am going to break your software" Eeeeeeeeek! (Cringe)

 

Maybe they think saying "I am going to measure the quality of your software, raise all issues found and report on its overall performance" doesn't sound as cool or as tough....

I really felt we were making huge progress in moving away from that nonsense, improving our careers reputation..

 

Cringe

Katrina

 

:-)

[Ajay Balamurugadas]

Maybe, you should let them know that they indeed break- not the software but the illusion that the software works. Testers break the illusion that everything works. I think, I heard this first from Michael Bolton.

[Oliver Erlewein]

Indeed Ajay. Spot on. 

I do like to tease devs though ;-)

Testers or rather testing isn't seen as something exciting or sexy so saying you're "going to break" something just brings a bit of excitement into testing. Thing is you need to know what you're saying (ie, that it is factually wrong), that you have a joking rapport with whoever you're talking to and be prepared to be wrong (and get your **** handed to you). 

But I do get where you're coming from Katrina! And most testers don't realise. 

<mime-attachment.jpg>

Simon Rigler Test Manager Testing Services - Westpac Information Technology

Tel: +64 4 4607 104 (Ext: 47104)	Westpac New Zealand Limited
Fax: +64 4 494 7710	Level 7, 1 Grey Street
Email: simon_...@westpac.co.nz	PO Box 691
	Wellington
Web: http://www.westpac.co.nz	New Zealand

join us on <mime-attachment.gif> <mime-attachment.gif> <mime-attachment.gif> <mime-attachment.gif>

<mime-attachment.gif>

[katrina mcnicholl]

Nice I like that !!!!!!

 

So very true and what a great non-conflicting way to communicate our view, in the hope to modify theirs.

 

Awesome.. I am so going to use that!!

 

Cheers

Break the illusion ... sweet..

 

[Ajay Balamurugadas]

Katrina, have you shown them the blog post by James: tester's commitments?

When a lot of bugs are raised, dev ate unhappy with me, I walk off with this dialogue: I love the devs. I understand how hard they work. I don't want anyone to point even a small mistake in their beautiful code and that is the only reason I find so many bugs.

Most of the times, this has worked in my favor :)

[Aaron Hodder]

Testers don't break software, we break project managers' hearts

[David Greenlees]

perhaps... do we (testers) perform the action that breaks it... however someone else has built in the capability for that possible break?

so you could argue that we do break it...?

how long can we keep this going for?  ;0)

[Oliver Erlewein]

What he said!!! Lol

[Oliver Erlewein]

As I always say (not my quote but I don't know who said it)...

"Development has two outputs code & defects"

[David Greenlees]

i think someone also said... defects don't exist unless they are found.

[Oliver Erlewein]

That's very Schödinger David. 

[Richard Robinson]

From a mindset point of view, i find it very important to go in to testing something thinking it is already damaged in some way. Sometimes the damage is important to do something about, and sometimes the damage is acceptable to carry. Some areas of the system are investigated deeply looking for any damage, and some are overlooked somewhat.
comes down to, if you say something is broken, then have you already passed judgment that what problems you find are relevant to the systems acceptance. If you treat it as damaged, then you are somewhat more inclined to consider what that actually means in terms of project deliverables and user expectations.
Rich, Cork, UK

Connected by MOTOBLUR™

-----Original message-----