Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Re: Catholic Church Tries To Silence Victims
7 views
Skip to first unread message
W.T.S.
Mar 20, 2012, 11:34:15 AM3/20/12
to
In article <4r2dnejnP9d4B_XS...@posted.localnet>,
bark...@erinot.com says...
> "Mitchell Holman" <nomailcomcast.net> wrote...
> > Catholic Church now trying to silence victims' support group
> > March 19, 2012
> The New York Times reported last week that
> > attorneys for the church have subpoenaed records from the
> > Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, known to most
> > people as SNAP, as part of sex abuse lawsuits in St. Louis
> > and Kansas City. The subpoenas demand e-mail records and,
> > in some cases, testimony - even though SNAP isn't directly
> > involved in the suits.
>
> That is because SNAP has deliberately made KNOWN
> false allegations, and has consistently reported false items
> in bad faith. It is time for them to come forward (as the Church has)
> with documentation, hate filled rants, lying e-mails, and deliberate
> unsupported allegations.
> Excellent news.
Bull shit. The Catholic Church is hardly a center for truth and
enlightenment. I'll take SNAPs word over the RCC any day of the week.
Abortion and sterilization, they save the lives, health and futures of
women and men alike!
>
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/print/14481
>
http://www.jennyjerrome.org/
>
http://tinyurl.com/3j3fkch
>
http://www.egalitarian.biz/Plan-B--Remedy-of-a-Lifetime.html
>
http://www.thelizlibrary.org/liz/004.htm
>
Breed like rabbits, live like pigs.
Live like pigs, die like rats!
>
Modern Christian: Someone who can take time out from
complaining about "welfare mothers popping out babies we
have to feed" to complain about welfare mothers getting
abortions that PREVENT more babies to be raised at public
expense.
>
http://www.imnotsorry.net
>
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17gbnyv0yzhevjpg/original.jpg
bark...@erinot.com says...
> "Mitchell Holman" <nomailcomcast.net> wrote...
> > Catholic Church now trying to silence victims' support group
> > March 19, 2012
> The New York Times reported last week that
> > attorneys for the church have subpoenaed records from the
> > Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, known to most
> > people as SNAP, as part of sex abuse lawsuits in St. Louis
> > and Kansas City. The subpoenas demand e-mail records and,
> > in some cases, testimony - even though SNAP isn't directly
> > involved in the suits.
>
> That is because SNAP has deliberately made KNOWN
> false allegations, and has consistently reported false items
> in bad faith. It is time for them to come forward (as the Church has)
> with documentation, hate filled rants, lying e-mails, and deliberate
> unsupported allegations.
> Excellent news.
Bull shit. The Catholic Church is hardly a center for truth and
enlightenment. I'll take SNAPs word over the RCC any day of the week.
Abortion and sterilization, they save the lives, health and futures of
women and men alike!
>
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/print/14481
>
http://www.jennyjerrome.org/
>
http://tinyurl.com/3j3fkch
>
http://www.egalitarian.biz/Plan-B--Remedy-of-a-Lifetime.html
>
http://www.thelizlibrary.org/liz/004.htm
>
Breed like rabbits, live like pigs.
Live like pigs, die like rats!
>
Modern Christian: Someone who can take time out from
complaining about "welfare mothers popping out babies we
have to feed" to complain about welfare mothers getting
abortions that PREVENT more babies to be raised at public
expense.
>
http://www.imnotsorry.net
>
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17gbnyv0yzhevjpg/original.jpg
default
Mar 20, 2012, 2:34:22 PM3/20/12
to
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:34:15 -0500, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
>>
>> That is because SNAP has deliberately made KNOWN
>> false allegations, and has consistently reported false items
>> in bad faith. It is time for them to come forward (as the Church has)
>> with documentation, hate filled rants, lying e-mails, and deliberate
>> unsupported allegations.
>> Excellent news.
>Bull shit. The Catholic Church is hardly a center for truth and
>enlightenment. I'll take SNAPs word over the RCC any day of the week.
>
Patsy is hardly a paragon of truth or enlightenment; so what did you
expect?
He still doesn't understand that people hate the Catholic Church for
very good reasons.
wrote:
>>
>> That is because SNAP has deliberately made KNOWN
>> false allegations, and has consistently reported false items
>> in bad faith. It is time for them to come forward (as the Church has)
>> with documentation, hate filled rants, lying e-mails, and deliberate
>> unsupported allegations.
>> Excellent news.
>Bull shit. The Catholic Church is hardly a center for truth and
>enlightenment. I'll take SNAPs word over the RCC any day of the week.
>
expect?
He still doesn't understand that people hate the Catholic Church for
very good reasons.
Patrick
Mar 20, 2012, 5:13:06 PM3/20/12
to
"W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.29d25f6f8...@news.west.earthlink.net...
You hate Catholics because we label you as a sinner.
news:MPG.29d25f6f8...@news.west.earthlink.net...
> In article <4r2dnejnP9d4B_XS...@posted.localnet>,
> bark...@erinot.com says...
>> "Mitchell Holman" <nomailcomcast.net> wrote...
>> > Catholic Church now trying to silence victims' support group
>> > March 19, 2012
>> The New York Times reported last week that
>> > attorneys for the church have subpoenaed records from the
>> > Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, known to most
>> > people as SNAP, as part of sex abuse lawsuits in St. Louis
>> > and Kansas City. The subpoenas demand e-mail records and,
>> > in some cases, testimony - even though SNAP isn't directly
>> > involved in the suits.
>>
>> That is because SNAP has deliberately made KNOWN
>> false allegations, and has consistently reported false items
>> in bad faith. It is time for them to come forward (as the Church has)
>> with documentation, hate filled rants, lying e-mails, and deliberate
>> unsupported allegations.
>> Excellent news.
> Bull shit. The Catholic Church is hardly a center for truth and
> enlightenment. I'll take SNAPs word over the RCC any day of the week.
Of course you would.
> bark...@erinot.com says...
>> "Mitchell Holman" <nomailcomcast.net> wrote...
>> > Catholic Church now trying to silence victims' support group
>> > March 19, 2012
>> The New York Times reported last week that
>> > attorneys for the church have subpoenaed records from the
>> > Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, known to most
>> > people as SNAP, as part of sex abuse lawsuits in St. Louis
>> > and Kansas City. The subpoenas demand e-mail records and,
>> > in some cases, testimony - even though SNAP isn't directly
>> > involved in the suits.
>>
>> That is because SNAP has deliberately made KNOWN
>> false allegations, and has consistently reported false items
>> in bad faith. It is time for them to come forward (as the Church has)
>> with documentation, hate filled rants, lying e-mails, and deliberate
>> unsupported allegations.
>> Excellent news.
> Bull shit. The Catholic Church is hardly a center for truth and
> enlightenment. I'll take SNAPs word over the RCC any day of the week.
You hate Catholics because we label you as a sinner.
Patrick
Mar 20, 2012, 5:14:30 PM3/20/12
to
<default> wrote in message
news:0ajhm7psn6vih0egi...@4ax.com...
<yawn>
Yeah, I hate the USA because it once allowed slavery.
I hate Obamma because he sent troops into harms way.
I hate democraps because they allow children tobe murdered.
Yeah, yeah,..... gotcha.
news:0ajhm7psn6vih0egi...@4ax.com...
Yeah, I hate the USA because it once allowed slavery.
I hate Obamma because he sent troops into harms way.
I hate democraps because they allow children tobe murdered.
Yeah, yeah,..... gotcha.
W.T.S.
Mar 20, 2012, 7:46:14 PM3/20/12
to
In article <q6WdnRf14-dGb_XS...@posted.localnet>,
bark...@erinot.com says...
The Catholic Church is soaked in sin. It has no business calling anyone
a "sinner". Beyond that, the RCC is soaked in unspeakable crimes
against all humanity.
bark...@erinot.com says...
a "sinner". Beyond that, the RCC is soaked in unspeakable crimes
against all humanity.
Les Hellawell
Mar 21, 2012, 4:24:10 AM3/21/12
to
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 18:46:14 -0500, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
and just when you don't think they could get worse:
Dutch Roman Catholic church 'castrated' boys in 1950s
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17453849
"Up to 11 boys were castrated while in the care of the Dutch Roman
Catholic church in the 1950s to rid them of homosexuality, a newspaper
investigation has said. "
wrote:
Dutch Roman Catholic church 'castrated' boys in 1950s
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17453849
"Up to 11 boys were castrated while in the care of the Dutch Roman
Catholic church in the 1950s to rid them of homosexuality, a newspaper
investigation has said. "
• R. L. Measures.
Mar 21, 2012, 5:34:10 AM3/21/12
to
In article <2u3jm79e8h4ri6qmd...@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
• Castrating Homosexual boys is nuts.
--
Richard L. Measures. AG6K, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
--
Richard L. Measures. AG6K, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
default
Mar 21, 2012, 9:27:23 AM3/21/12
to
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:24:10 +0000, Les Hellawell <les...@here.com>
wrote:
>>
>and just when you don't think they could get worse:
>
>Dutch Roman Catholic church 'castrated' boys in 1950s
>
>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17453849
>
>"Up to 11 boys were castrated while in the care of the Dutch Roman
>Catholic church in the 1950s to rid them of homosexuality, a newspaper
>investigation has said. "
>
>
The total was 10 boys when I looked at it last week... One of the
things that is getting out is that the castrations were not exactly
"surgical" in nature. More like a botched job or no anesthesia used.
One wonders how many corpses will turn up if they look hard enough.
So far they don't mention any pre-pubescent boys.
Hard to believe there are still Catholics that deny the immorality of
the RCC.
I remember one of the nuns lecturing us about the inquisition and the
political popes of the middle ages, and how that was "all behind us
now."
wrote:
>>
>and just when you don't think they could get worse:
>
>Dutch Roman Catholic church 'castrated' boys in 1950s
>
>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17453849
>
>"Up to 11 boys were castrated while in the care of the Dutch Roman
>Catholic church in the 1950s to rid them of homosexuality, a newspaper
>investigation has said. "
>
>
things that is getting out is that the castrations were not exactly
"surgical" in nature. More like a botched job or no anesthesia used.
One wonders how many corpses will turn up if they look hard enough.
So far they don't mention any pre-pubescent boys.
Hard to believe there are still Catholics that deny the immorality of
the RCC.
I remember one of the nuns lecturing us about the inquisition and the
political popes of the middle ages, and how that was "all behind us
now."
Patrick
Mar 21, 2012, 1:20:48 PM3/21/12
to
"W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote
> The Catholic Church is soaked in sin. It has no business calling anyone
> a "sinner". Beyond that, the RCC is soaked in unspeakable crimes
> against all humanity.
<yawn>
> The Catholic Church is soaked in sin. It has no business calling anyone
> a "sinner". Beyond that, the RCC is soaked in unspeakable crimes
> against all humanity.
Patrick
Mar 21, 2012, 1:22:29 PM3/21/12
to
"Les Hellawell" <les...@here.com> wrote
Probably followed the advice of the shrinks of the day.
Fagotry used to be a disease in their DSM, dontchuknow?
> and just when you don't think they could get worse:
> Dutch Roman Catholic church 'castrated' boys in 1950s
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17453849
> "Up to 11 boys were castrated while in the care of the Dutch Roman
> Catholic church in the 1950s to rid them of homosexuality, a newspaper
> investigation has said. "
Probably helped the little fags to become straight.
> Dutch Roman Catholic church 'castrated' boys in 1950s
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17453849
> "Up to 11 boys were castrated while in the care of the Dutch Roman
> Catholic church in the 1950s to rid them of homosexuality, a newspaper
> investigation has said. "
Probably followed the advice of the shrinks of the day.
Fagotry used to be a disease in their DSM, dontchuknow?
Patrick
Mar 21, 2012, 1:25:22 PM3/21/12
to
". R. L. Measures." <r...@somis.org> wrote
> . Castrating Homosexual boys is nuts.
The Catholic Church in the Netherlands castrated at least 10 boys in the
1950s to cure them of their homosexuality, or to punish them for accusing
clergy members of sexual abuse. A report states that "surgical removal of
testicles was regarded as a treatment for homosexuality and also as a
punishment for those who accused clergy of sexual abuse."
Makes sense to me.
> . Castrating Homosexual boys is nuts.
The Catholic Church in the Netherlands castrated at least 10 boys in the
1950s to cure them of their homosexuality, or to punish them for accusing
clergy members of sexual abuse. A report states that "surgical removal of
testicles was regarded as a treatment for homosexuality and also as a
punishment for those who accused clergy of sexual abuse."
Makes sense to me.
Patrick
Mar 21, 2012, 1:28:23 PM3/21/12
to
<default> wrote ...
>>"Up to 11 boys were castrated while in the care of the Dutch Roman
>>Catholic church in the 1950s to rid them of homosexuality, a newspaper
>>investigation has said. "
> The total was 10 boys when I looked at it last week... One of the
> things that is getting out is that the castrations were not exactly
> "surgical" in nature. More like a botched job or no anesthesia used.
> One wonders how many corpses will turn up if they look hard enough.
> So far they don't mention any pre-pubescent boys.
Only one case could be confirmed --- in 1956. There, court papers confirm,
he was castrated "at his own request", despite no submission of his written
consent. Sources told Mr Dohmen that the surgical removal of testicles was
All the others were unconfirmed.
How do you confirm a case from 1958?
>>"Up to 11 boys were castrated while in the care of the Dutch Roman
>>Catholic church in the 1950s to rid them of homosexuality, a newspaper
>>investigation has said. "
> The total was 10 boys when I looked at it last week... One of the
> things that is getting out is that the castrations were not exactly
> "surgical" in nature. More like a botched job or no anesthesia used.
> One wonders how many corpses will turn up if they look hard enough.
> So far they don't mention any pre-pubescent boys.
he was castrated "at his own request", despite no submission of his written
consent. Sources told Mr Dohmen that the surgical removal of testicles was
regarded as a treatment for homosexuality and also as a punishment for those
who accused clergy of sexual abuse.
This "boy" died in 1958. This is the BIG confirmed case?
who accused clergy of sexual abuse.
All the others were unconfirmed.
How do you confirm a case from 1958?
W.T.S.
Mar 21, 2012, 1:39:54 PM3/21/12
to
Alan Ferris
Mar 21, 2012, 2:28:16 PM3/21/12
to
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:25:22 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
wrote:
>A report states that "surgical removal of
>testicles was regarded as a treatment for homosexuality and also as a
>punishment for those who accused clergy of sexual abuse."
>
>Makes sense to me.
Just showing how sick Barker is. No wonder he is shunned by all
decent Catholics.
--
Ferrit
()'.'.'()
( (T) )
( ) . ( )
(")_(")
wrote:
>A report states that "surgical removal of
>testicles was regarded as a treatment for homosexuality and also as a
>punishment for those who accused clergy of sexual abuse."
>
>Makes sense to me.
decent Catholics.
--
Ferrit
()'.'.'()
( (T) )
( ) . ( )
(")_(")
linuxgal
Mar 21, 2012, 6:58:28 AM3/21/12
to
default wrote:
> I remember one of the nuns lecturing us about the inquisition and the
> political popes of the middle ages, and how that was "all behind us
> now."
When the clergy talks about behinds these days, beware.
> I remember one of the nuns lecturing us about the inquisition and the
> political popes of the middle ages, and how that was "all behind us
> now."
Mike Painter
Mar 21, 2012, 10:48:17 PM3/21/12
to
But keep it up, you help the atheist cause a lot.
Message has been deleted
• R. L. Measures.
Mar 22, 2012, 5:19:50 AM3/22/12
to
In article <r56dnSCLt8Jmk_fS...@posted.localnet>, "Patrick"
** As punishment for telling the truth about being buttrammed by a "fag"
priest?
priest?
Patrick
Mar 22, 2012, 8:15:27 AM3/22/12
to
"Mike Painter" <md.pa...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:YO-dnUqWPvhuD_fS...@giganews.com...
Hey, don't blame the Catholics on this.
The leading shrinks of the time advised this.
After all, homosexuality was considered a disease.
news:YO-dnUqWPvhuD_fS...@giganews.com...
The leading shrinks of the time advised this.
After all, homosexuality was considered a disease.
Patrick
Mar 22, 2012, 8:17:03 AM3/22/12
to
". R. L. Measures." <r...@somis.org> wrote in message
news:rL-220312...@10.0.1.3...
Nope.
As a health care technique to solve a mental health disorder,
as prescribed by the leading medical shrinks of the day.
news:rL-220312...@10.0.1.3...
As a health care technique to solve a mental health disorder,
as prescribed by the leading medical shrinks of the day.
Patrick
Mar 22, 2012, 8:18:29 AM3/22/12
to
<default> wrote in message
news:orkjm75ftoous7958...@4ax.com...
the little fag who killed himself in 1956.
<yawn>
news:orkjm75ftoous7958...@4ax.com...
> Les Hellawell <les...@here.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>and just when you don't think they could get worse:
>>
>>Dutch Roman Catholic church 'castrated' boys in 1950s
>>>
>>and just when you don't think they could get worse:
>>
>>Dutch Roman Catholic church 'castrated' boys in 1950s
>>"Up to 11 boys were castrated while in the care of the Dutch Roman
>>Catholic church in the 1950s to rid them of homosexuality, a newspaper
>>investigation has said. "
>>
> The total was 10 boys when I looked at it last week... One of the
> things that is getting out is that the castrations were not exactly
> "surgical" in nature. More like a botched job or no anesthesia used.
> One wonders how many corpses will turn up if they look hard enough.
> So far they don't mention any pre-pubescent boys.
They don't mention the names of any boys, except for
>>Catholic church in the 1950s to rid them of homosexuality, a newspaper
>>investigation has said. "
>>
> The total was 10 boys when I looked at it last week... One of the
> things that is getting out is that the castrations were not exactly
> "surgical" in nature. More like a botched job or no anesthesia used.
> One wonders how many corpses will turn up if they look hard enough.
> So far they don't mention any pre-pubescent boys.
the little fag who killed himself in 1956.
<yawn>
• R. L. Measures.
Mar 22, 2012, 9:50:43 AM3/22/12
to
In article <rd6dnT606sulhfbS...@posted.localnet>, "Patrick"
<bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>". R. L. Measures." <r...@somis.org> wrote in message
>news:rL-220312...@10.0.1.3...
>> In article <r56dnSCLt8Jmk_fS...@posted.localnet>, "Patrick"
>> <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>
>>>". R. L. Measures." <r...@somis.org> wrote
>>>> . Castrating Homosexual boys is nuts.
>>>
>>>The Catholic Church in the Netherlands castrated at least 10 boys in the
>>>1950s to cure them of their homosexuality, or to punish them for accusing
>>>clergy members of sexual abuse. A report states that "surgical removal of
>>>testicles was regarded as a treatment for homosexuality and also as a
>>>punishment for those who accused clergy of sexual abuse."
>>>
>>>Makes sense to me.
>>
>> ** As punishment for telling the truth about being buttrammed by a "fag"
>> priest?
>
>Nope.
>As a health care technique to solve a mental health disorder,
>as prescribed by the leading medical shrinks of the day.
** The report talked about punishment.
>". R. L. Measures." <r...@somis.org> wrote in message
>news:rL-220312...@10.0.1.3...
>> In article <r56dnSCLt8Jmk_fS...@posted.localnet>, "Patrick"
>> <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>
>>>". R. L. Measures." <r...@somis.org> wrote
>>>> . Castrating Homosexual boys is nuts.
>>>
>>>The Catholic Church in the Netherlands castrated at least 10 boys in the
>>>1950s to cure them of their homosexuality, or to punish them for accusing
>>>clergy members of sexual abuse. A report states that "surgical removal of
>>>testicles was regarded as a treatment for homosexuality and also as a
>>>punishment for those who accused clergy of sexual abuse."
>>>
>>>Makes sense to me.
>>
>> ** As punishment for telling the truth about being buttrammed by a "fag"
>> priest?
>
>Nope.
>As a health care technique to solve a mental health disorder,
>as prescribed by the leading medical shrinks of the day.
WangoTango
Mar 22, 2012, 12:21:20 PM3/22/12
to
The "Church" has gotten itself into so much trouble that the flock just
doesn't give a shit anymore.
Alan Ferris
Mar 22, 2012, 1:56:11 PM3/22/12
to
On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:15:27 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
wrote:
Nobody advised the church to physically abuse children. Just as
nobody advised them to cover it up.
However all Catholic teaching says that it is wrong to abuse children.
So why did they do it?
Is it because like you they are just a bunch of cowardly perverts who
use the church as a crutch to make them feel normal?
wrote:
nobody advised them to cover it up.
However all Catholic teaching says that it is wrong to abuse children.
So why did they do it?
Is it because like you they are just a bunch of cowardly perverts who
use the church as a crutch to make them feel normal?
Alan Ferris
Mar 22, 2012, 1:57:53 PM3/22/12
to
On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:17:03 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
wrote:
>>>Makes sense to me.
>>
>> ** As punishment for telling the truth about being buttrammed by a "fag"
>> priest?
>
>Nope.
>As a health care technique to solve a mental health disorder,
>as prescribed by the leading medical shrinks of the day.
But Barker cannot quote one eminent medical person recommending the
rape of children to prevent homosexuality, nor can he quote one
recommending the Vatican castrate victims to keep them silent.
But despite this he supports it because he needs victims to stay
silent, he lives in fear of his own children going to the authorities.
wrote:
>>>Makes sense to me.
>>
>> ** As punishment for telling the truth about being buttrammed by a "fag"
>> priest?
>
>Nope.
>As a health care technique to solve a mental health disorder,
>as prescribed by the leading medical shrinks of the day.
rape of children to prevent homosexuality, nor can he quote one
recommending the Vatican castrate victims to keep them silent.
But despite this he supports it because he needs victims to stay
silent, he lives in fear of his own children going to the authorities.
Alan Ferris
Mar 22, 2012, 1:59:25 PM3/22/12
to
On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:18:29 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
wrote:
Want to know more about the sick person who would support church abuse
of children, well a quick google search found this information posted
by himself:
-------------------
From: "Patrick Barker" <barker...@erinet.com>
However, I will play your game if you like:
SSAN: 516-58-6276, 11 Sep 48,3025 Old Heritage Way, Beavercreek OH
45432, 426-8281, Sears, Pennies,
Visa, MC, Furrows, Bryant Lane, live in a house worth $137,500.
Retired, 2 children;
MELANIE BARKER BERKMEN
Husband: Mehmet Berkmen
Son: Kaan Berkmen
Melanie Berkmen
Suffolk University
Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry
41 Temple St.
Boston, MA 02114
http://openwetware.org/wiki/User:Melanie_berkmen
http://openwetware.org/wiki/Berkmen
http://www.cfkeep.org/html/snapshot.php?id=29045795
email: mberk...@suffolk.edu
Melissa and Christopher Kalt
Children: Ashley and Abigail
1645 KEN KLARE DR
Dayton, OH 45432-1911
(937) 426-8536
I have nothing to hide or fear.
----------------------
wrote:
of children, well a quick google search found this information posted
by himself:
-------------------
From: "Patrick Barker" <barker...@erinet.com>
However, I will play your game if you like:
SSAN: 516-58-6276, 11 Sep 48,3025 Old Heritage Way, Beavercreek OH
45432, 426-8281, Sears, Pennies,
Visa, MC, Furrows, Bryant Lane, live in a house worth $137,500.
Retired, 2 children;
MELANIE BARKER BERKMEN
Husband: Mehmet Berkmen
Son: Kaan Berkmen
Melanie Berkmen
Suffolk University
Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry
41 Temple St.
Boston, MA 02114
http://openwetware.org/wiki/User:Melanie_berkmen
http://openwetware.org/wiki/Berkmen
http://www.cfkeep.org/html/snapshot.php?id=29045795
email: mberk...@suffolk.edu
Melissa and Christopher Kalt
Children: Ashley and Abigail
1645 KEN KLARE DR
Dayton, OH 45432-1911
(937) 426-8536
I have nothing to hide or fear.
----------------------
default
Mar 22, 2012, 4:04:13 PM3/22/12
to
On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 17:59:25 +0000, Alan Ferris
<hairy....@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>Want to know more about the sick person who would support church abuse
>of children, well a quick google search found this information posted
>by himself:
I just filter him out, I've heard so many of his sick stupid arguments
<hairy....@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>Want to know more about the sick person who would support church abuse
>of children, well a quick google search found this information posted
>by himself:
reiterated over and over, and the cheesy cut and paste that, likely as
not, supports a point in contradiction of his own beliefs.
1. That's in the past
2. They fixed the problem
3. It is ancient history
4. If it didn't happen in Texas or Montana it is a third world
country
5. If you don't follow the church's teachings you will be sorry
6. I am happy
7. It must suck to be you
8. They are lying
9. It isn't plagiarism because someone else already said it
10. Fag's queers and homos are disgusting and shouldn't be around
decent folk
11. The church fired all the fag priests
12. The boys waited too long to report abuse
13. The priest died and can't defend himself (so it didn't happen)
14. Catholic Bashers will roast in hell
15. I help people
16. Morality is not determined by people
I could keep on; but what's the use?
• R. L. Measures.
Mar 22, 2012, 5:10:09 PM3/22/12
to
In article <drpmm7pg5bekkc6ec...@4ax.com>, Alan Ferris
the mistake of adopting the mandatory vow of chastity in a mammon-driven
move to deprive the children of priests of their rightful inheritance.
Congrats to Pete Comestor to see where this flub was headed. .
"The devil never harmed the church so much as when the church herself
adopted the vow of celibacy."
- - Petrus Comestor
>Is it because like you they are just a bunch of cowardly perverts who
>use the church as a crutch to make them feel normal?
• However, as Duke successfully argued, gay altar boys benefitted.
<hairy....@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:15:27 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
>wrote:
>
>>"Mike Painter" <md.pa...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>news:YO-dnUqWPvhuD_fS...@giganews.com...
>>> On 3/21/2012 10:25 AM, Patrick wrote:
>>>> ". R. L. Measures."<r...@somis.org> wrote
>>>>> . Castrating Homosexual boys is nuts.
>>>>
>>>> The Catholic Church in the Netherlands castrated at least 10 boys in the
>>>> 1950s to cure them of their homosexuality, or to punish them for accusing
>>>> clergy members of sexual abuse. A report states that "surgical removal of
>>>> testicles was regarded as a treatment for homosexuality and also as a
>>>> punishment for those who accused clergy of sexual abuse."
>>>>
>>>> Makes sense to me.
>>>>
>>> The snake inside you continues to show.
>>> But keep it up, you help the atheist cause a lot.
>>
>>Hey, don't blame the Catholics on this.
>>The leading shrinks of the time advised this.
>>After all, homosexuality was considered a disease.
>
>Nobody advised the church to physically abuse children. Just as
>nobody advised them to cover it up.
>However all Catholic teaching says that it is wrong to abuse children.
>So why did they do it?
• The supposedly infallible org. was trapped by what happened in 1079CE -
>On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:15:27 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
>wrote:
>
>>"Mike Painter" <md.pa...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>news:YO-dnUqWPvhuD_fS...@giganews.com...
>>> On 3/21/2012 10:25 AM, Patrick wrote:
>>>> ". R. L. Measures."<r...@somis.org> wrote
>>>>> . Castrating Homosexual boys is nuts.
>>>>
>>>> The Catholic Church in the Netherlands castrated at least 10 boys in the
>>>> 1950s to cure them of their homosexuality, or to punish them for accusing
>>>> clergy members of sexual abuse. A report states that "surgical removal of
>>>> testicles was regarded as a treatment for homosexuality and also as a
>>>> punishment for those who accused clergy of sexual abuse."
>>>>
>>>> Makes sense to me.
>>>>
>>> The snake inside you continues to show.
>>> But keep it up, you help the atheist cause a lot.
>>
>>Hey, don't blame the Catholics on this.
>>The leading shrinks of the time advised this.
>>After all, homosexuality was considered a disease.
>
>Nobody advised the church to physically abuse children. Just as
>nobody advised them to cover it up.
>However all Catholic teaching says that it is wrong to abuse children.
>So why did they do it?
the mistake of adopting the mandatory vow of chastity in a mammon-driven
move to deprive the children of priests of their rightful inheritance.
Congrats to Pete Comestor to see where this flub was headed. .
"The devil never harmed the church so much as when the church herself
adopted the vow of celibacy."
- - Petrus Comestor
>Is it because like you they are just a bunch of cowardly perverts who
>use the church as a crutch to make them feel normal?
>
>
>--
>Ferrit
>
> ()'.'.'()
> ( (T) )
> ( ) . ( )
> (")_(")
>
>--
>Ferrit
>
> ()'.'.'()
> ( (T) )
> ( ) . ( )
> (")_(")
Patrick
Mar 22, 2012, 5:29:36 PM3/22/12
to
Patrick
Mar 22, 2012, 5:30:46 PM3/22/12
to
<default> wrote in message
news:nr0nm7laa3a1bre1e...@4ax.com...
You got the most important ones.
Good for you.
news:nr0nm7laa3a1bre1e...@4ax.com...
Good for you.
Patrick
Mar 22, 2012, 5:31:43 PM3/22/12
to
"WangoTango" <Asga...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.29d51b8cf...@news.east.earthlink.net...
The church doesn't pay attention to whiners and sinners.
You were kicked out, and you are pissed.
We understand.
Sour grapes.
news:MPG.29d51b8cf...@news.east.earthlink.net...
You were kicked out, and you are pissed.
We understand.
Sour grapes.
W.T.S.
Mar 22, 2012, 10:04:37 PM3/22/12
to
In article <V82dnYyDxa2qB_bS...@posted.localnet>,
bark...@erinot.com says...
Perhaps it's time for people to start kicking the Catholic Church out of
their lives. No "Church", no problem.
bark...@erinot.com says...
their lives. No "Church", no problem.
Ray Fischer
Mar 22, 2012, 11:50:18 PM3/22/12
to
Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>"WangoTango" <Asga...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:MPG.29d51b8cf...@news.east.earthlink.net...
>> In article <weqdnakimsd0kPfS...@posted.localnet>,
>> bark...@erinot.com says...
>>> "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote
>>>
>>> > The Catholic Church is soaked in sin. It has no business calling
>>> > anyone
>>> > a "sinner". Beyond that, the RCC is soaked in unspeakable crimes
>>> > against all humanity.
>>>
>>> <yawn>
>>
>> That is the saddest response of all time.
>> The "Church" has gotten itself into so much trouble that the flock just
>> doesn't give a shit anymore.
>
>The church doesn't pay attention to whiners and sinners.
Especially when they're only whining about priests molesting
>"WangoTango" <Asga...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:MPG.29d51b8cf...@news.east.earthlink.net...
>> In article <weqdnakimsd0kPfS...@posted.localnet>,
>> bark...@erinot.com says...
>>> "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote
>>>
>>> > The Catholic Church is soaked in sin. It has no business calling
>>> > anyone
>>> > a "sinner". Beyond that, the RCC is soaked in unspeakable crimes
>>> > against all humanity.
>>>
>>> <yawn>
>>
>> That is the saddest response of all time.
>> The "Church" has gotten itself into so much trouble that the flock just
>> doesn't give a shit anymore.
>
>The church doesn't pay attention to whiners and sinners.
little girls.
--
Ray Fischer | None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
rfis...@sonic.net | Goethe
Paul Duca
Mar 23, 2012, 2:37:29 AM3/23/12
to
On Mar 22, 8:17 am, "Patrick" <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
> ". R. L. Measures." <r...@somis.org> wrote in messagenews:rL-220312...@10.0.1.3...
>
>
>
> > In article <r56dnSCLt8Jmk_fSnZ2dnUVZ_hudn...@posted.localnet>, "Patrick"
Paul
> ". R. L. Measures." <r...@somis.org> wrote in messagenews:rL-220312...@10.0.1.3...
>
>
>
> > In article <r56dnSCLt8Jmk_fSnZ2dnUVZ_hudn...@posted.localnet>, "Patrick"
> > <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
>
> >>". R. L. Measures." <r...@somis.org> wrote
> >>> . Castrating Homosexual boys is nuts.
>
> >>The Catholic Church in the Netherlands castrated at least 10 boys in the
> >>1950s to cure them of their homosexuality, or to punish them for accusing
> >>clergy members of sexual abuse. A report states that "surgical removal of
> >>testicles was regarded as a treatment for homosexuality and also as a
> >>punishment for those who accused clergy of sexual abuse."
>
> >>Makes sense to me.
>
> > ** As punishment for telling the truth about being buttrammed by a "fag"
> > priest?
>
> Nope.
> As a health care technique to solve a mental health disorder,
> as prescribed by the leading medical shrinks of the day.
Why didn't they assume YOU needed it as a little boy?
>
> >>". R. L. Measures." <r...@somis.org> wrote
> >>> . Castrating Homosexual boys is nuts.
>
> >>The Catholic Church in the Netherlands castrated at least 10 boys in the
> >>1950s to cure them of their homosexuality, or to punish them for accusing
> >>clergy members of sexual abuse. A report states that "surgical removal of
> >>testicles was regarded as a treatment for homosexuality and also as a
> >>punishment for those who accused clergy of sexual abuse."
>
> >>Makes sense to me.
>
> > ** As punishment for telling the truth about being buttrammed by a "fag"
> > priest?
>
> Nope.
> As a health care technique to solve a mental health disorder,
> as prescribed by the leading medical shrinks of the day.
Paul
Paul Duca
Mar 23, 2012, 2:38:02 AM3/23/12
to
On Mar 22, 8:15 am, "Patrick" <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
> "Mike Painter" <md.pain...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> After all, homosexuality was considered a disease--one of the many wonderful things about "the good old days".
> "Mike Painter" <md.pain...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Alan Ferris
Mar 23, 2012, 5:25:32 AM3/23/12
to
• R. L. Measures.
Mar 23, 2012, 6:15:58 AM3/23/12
to
In article <9vednZQs3sYlBPbS...@posted.localnet>, "Patrick"
** methinks I smelleth red herring.
W.T.S.
Mar 23, 2012, 7:14:45 AM3/23/12
to
In article <KNidnTuGX4d9jvfS...@posted.localnet>,
bark...@erinot.com says...
> "Mike Painter" <md.pa...@sbcglobal.net> wrote ...
> > On 3/20/2012 7:57 AM, Patrick wrote:
> >> "Mitchell Holman"<nomailcomcast.net> wrote...
> >>> Catholic Church now trying to silence victims' support group
> >>> March 19, 2012
> >> The New York Times reported last week that
> >>> attorneys for the church have subpoenaed records from the
> >>> Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, known to most
> >>> people as SNAP, as part of sex abuse lawsuits in St. Louis
> >>> and Kansas City. The subpoenas demand e-mail records and,
> >>> in some cases, testimony - even though SNAP isn't directly
> >>> involved in the suits.
> >>
> >> That is because SNAP has deliberately made KNOWN
> >> false allegations,
<snip> Snipped at first line of lying bull shit and disinformation, why
repost Patrick's lies and nonsense? </snip>
Do you have anything to defend your child raping "Church" with anything
other than made up lies, disinformation, bull shit and nonsense?
No, you don't! The lie, disinformation, propaganda is the weapon of
choice for the Roman Catholic Church for 2,000 years now. Nothing has
changed, nothing will change.
No matter what the issue, the RCC remains a throw back to the dark ages.
It's long past time to rid ourselves of this monster that has darkened
all of our lives for so long.
bark...@erinot.com says...
> "Mike Painter" <md.pa...@sbcglobal.net> wrote ...
> > On 3/20/2012 7:57 AM, Patrick wrote:
> >> "Mitchell Holman"<nomailcomcast.net> wrote...
> >>> Catholic Church now trying to silence victims' support group
> >>> March 19, 2012
> >> The New York Times reported last week that
> >>> attorneys for the church have subpoenaed records from the
> >>> Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, known to most
> >>> people as SNAP, as part of sex abuse lawsuits in St. Louis
> >>> and Kansas City. The subpoenas demand e-mail records and,
> >>> in some cases, testimony - even though SNAP isn't directly
> >>> involved in the suits.
> >>
> >> That is because SNAP has deliberately made KNOWN
> >> false allegations,
<snip> Snipped at first line of lying bull shit and disinformation, why
repost Patrick's lies and nonsense? </snip>
Do you have anything to defend your child raping "Church" with anything
other than made up lies, disinformation, bull shit and nonsense?
No, you don't! The lie, disinformation, propaganda is the weapon of
choice for the Roman Catholic Church for 2,000 years now. Nothing has
changed, nothing will change.
No matter what the issue, the RCC remains a throw back to the dark ages.
It's long past time to rid ourselves of this monster that has darkened
all of our lives for so long.
Patrick
Mar 23, 2012, 8:25:32 AM3/23/12
to
"W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote
> Do you have anything to defend your child raping "Church" with anything
> other than made up lies, disinformation, bull shit and nonsense?
I do not defend you or your actions.
> Do you have anything to defend your child raping "Church" with anything
> other than made up lies, disinformation, bull shit and nonsense?
Patrick
Mar 23, 2012, 8:26:42 AM3/23/12
to
"W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote
We beat you to the punch when we threw you out.
> Perhaps it's time for people to start kicking the Catholic Church out of
> their lives. No "Church", no problem.
That was your plan, eh?
> their lives. No "Church", no problem.
We beat you to the punch when we threw you out.
Patrick
Mar 23, 2012, 8:27:26 AM3/23/12
to
"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4f6bf2fa$0$12003$742e...@news.sonic.net...
news:4f6bf2fa$0$12003$742e...@news.sonic.net...
> Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>"WangoTango" <Asga...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>news:MPG.29d51b8cf...@news.east.earthlink.net...
>>> In article <weqdnakimsd0kPfS...@posted.localnet>,
>>> bark...@erinot.com says...
>>>> "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote
>>>>
>>>> > The Catholic Church is soaked in sin. It has no business calling
>>>> > anyone
>>>> > a "sinner". Beyond that, the RCC is soaked in unspeakable crimes
>>>> > against all humanity.
>>>>
>>>> <yawn>
>>>
>>> That is the saddest response of all time.
>>> The "Church" has gotten itself into so much trouble that the flock just
>>> doesn't give a shit anymore.
>>
>>The church doesn't pay attention to whiners and sinners.
>
> Especially when they're only whining about priests molesting
> little girls.
Or lying about other allegations that are made up.
>>"WangoTango" <Asga...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>news:MPG.29d51b8cf...@news.east.earthlink.net...
>>> In article <weqdnakimsd0kPfS...@posted.localnet>,
>>> bark...@erinot.com says...
>>>> "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote
>>>>
>>>> > The Catholic Church is soaked in sin. It has no business calling
>>>> > anyone
>>>> > a "sinner". Beyond that, the RCC is soaked in unspeakable crimes
>>>> > against all humanity.
>>>>
>>>> <yawn>
>>>
>>> That is the saddest response of all time.
>>> The "Church" has gotten itself into so much trouble that the flock just
>>> doesn't give a shit anymore.
>>
>>The church doesn't pay attention to whiners and sinners.
>
> Especially when they're only whining about priests molesting
> little girls.
Patrick
Mar 23, 2012, 8:28:05 AM3/23/12
to
"Attila" <<proc...@here.now> wrote in message
news:7jbom7dgqevgkv1uc...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 17:31:43 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
> in alt.abortion with message-id
> I wish I had joined. I would love to be kicked out, with certificate,
> ceremony, and everything.
You still have a chance.
We'll leave a light on for you.
news:7jbom7dgqevgkv1uc...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 17:31:43 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
> in alt.abortion with message-id
> ceremony, and everything.
You still have a chance.
We'll leave a light on for you.
W.T.S.
Mar 23, 2012, 12:47:35 PM3/23/12
to
In article <o_adncWVwaTPPPHS...@posted.localnet>,
bark...@erinot.com says...
> "Mitchell Holman" <nomailcomcast.net> wrote in message
> news:XnsA01F4EC73BCE8...@216.196.121.131...
> > "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote in news:Npydnbd3Wq-
> > p9vHSnZ2dn...@posted.localnet:
> >
> >> "Paul Duca" <paul....@gmail.com> wrote
> >>> > Pedophile priest pleads guilty
> >>> > April 25, 2011
> >>> > Catholic priest Alejandro Jose Castillo pleaded guilty
> >>>
> >>> Hope he spends life in prison.
> >>> We don't need no fags in the priest ministry.
> >>
> >> At least until the shortage of warm bodies in the pulpits makes the
> >> Church think twice...
> >>
> >> + Certainly it does.
> >> + We must be very careful who we select as parish
> >> priests. We expect a lot from them. Once in a while,
> >> some slime (like you) slips into the system and disappoints
> >> us with evil behavior. We all sin. But, we cannot allow
> >> shithead fags like you to lead our church parishes.
> >
> > At this point who is left to lead your parishes?
>
> Decent, God-fearing, law abiding, honest seminarians
> whose purpose is to lead his parish.
I doubt that there are that many asexual people on the entire face of
the Earth.
> >
> > Church officials say priest shortage will worsen
> >
> > (03/08/12) Church officials in Ogdensburg say Roman
> > Catholic parishes across the North Country will lose
> > roughly a third of their priests over the next decade.
> >
> > The Diocese has expanded efforts to recruit new
> > seminarians willing to serve as priests. But the
> > rapid decline is forcing big changes in the way
> > Catholic churches operate.
> >
> > The priest shortage is nothing new. Here in the North
> > Country and around the US, bishops have been grappling
> > for decades with a steady decline in new seminarians
> > and the rapid aging of the community of priests and nuns.
> >
> > Bishop Terry LaValley says it's still not clear when
> > the Diocese of Ogdensburg will stabilize. "That's very
> > difficult to say. There are so many variables. Age of
> > retirements, the deaths, the seminarians. So there are
> > so many variables, it's very difficult."
> >
> > The numbers are daunting. A decade ago, there were 92
> > priests serving a 12,000 square mile area. That's already
> > dropped to 62. And over the next decade, it's expected to
> > plummet again to around 40.
> > http://tinyurl.com/7shcjl2
bark...@erinot.com says...
> "Mitchell Holman" <nomailcomcast.net> wrote in message
> news:XnsA01F4EC73BCE8...@216.196.121.131...
> > "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote in news:Npydnbd3Wq-
> > p9vHSnZ2dn...@posted.localnet:
> >
> >> "Paul Duca" <paul....@gmail.com> wrote
> >>> > Pedophile priest pleads guilty
> >>> > April 25, 2011
> >>> > Catholic priest Alejandro Jose Castillo pleaded guilty
> >>>
> >>> Hope he spends life in prison.
> >>> We don't need no fags in the priest ministry.
> >>
> >> At least until the shortage of warm bodies in the pulpits makes the
> >> Church think twice...
> >>
> >> + Certainly it does.
> >> + We must be very careful who we select as parish
> >> priests. We expect a lot from them. Once in a while,
> >> some slime (like you) slips into the system and disappoints
> >> us with evil behavior. We all sin. But, we cannot allow
> >> shithead fags like you to lead our church parishes.
> >
> > At this point who is left to lead your parishes?
>
> Decent, God-fearing, law abiding, honest seminarians
> whose purpose is to lead his parish.
I doubt that there are that many asexual people on the entire face of
the Earth.
> >
> > Church officials say priest shortage will worsen
> >
> > (03/08/12) Church officials in Ogdensburg say Roman
> > Catholic parishes across the North Country will lose
> > roughly a third of their priests over the next decade.
> >
> > The Diocese has expanded efforts to recruit new
> > seminarians willing to serve as priests. But the
> > rapid decline is forcing big changes in the way
> > Catholic churches operate.
> >
> > The priest shortage is nothing new. Here in the North
> > Country and around the US, bishops have been grappling
> > for decades with a steady decline in new seminarians
> > and the rapid aging of the community of priests and nuns.
> >
> > Bishop Terry LaValley says it's still not clear when
> > the Diocese of Ogdensburg will stabilize. "That's very
> > difficult to say. There are so many variables. Age of
> > retirements, the deaths, the seminarians. So there are
> > so many variables, it's very difficult."
> >
> > The numbers are daunting. A decade ago, there were 92
> > priests serving a 12,000 square mile area. That's already
> > dropped to 62. And over the next decade, it's expected to
> > plummet again to around 40.
> > http://tinyurl.com/7shcjl2
W.T.S.
Mar 23, 2012, 12:48:55 PM3/23/12
to
In article <7dGdnffaKq9aPPHS...@posted.localnet>,
> Better to have fewer appointed priests that will do
> the will of God, than to hire a dork like you.
Better still, to have no one at all. Only then will we have a normal,
decent society.
> > Church officials say priest shortage will worsen
> > (03/08/12) Church officials in Ogdensburg say Roman
> > Catholic parishes across the North Country will lose
> > roughly a third of their priests over the next decade.
>
> Yup.
> > (03/08/12) Church officials in Ogdensburg say Roman
> > Catholic parishes across the North Country will lose
> > roughly a third of their priests over the next decade.
>
> Better to have fewer appointed priests that will do
> the will of God, than to hire a dork like you.
Better still, to have no one at all. Only then will we have a normal,
decent society.
W.T.S.
Mar 23, 2012, 12:51:36 PM3/23/12
to
In article <ivudnaSuM-xm9vHS...@posted.localnet>,
bark...@erinot.com says...
I was never a member. Which is too bad, I can't formally renounce,
denounce and repudiate the Catholic Church.
bark...@erinot.com says...
denounce and repudiate the Catholic Church.
WangoTango
Mar 23, 2012, 3:32:55 PM3/23/12
to
I was never in, that's why my asshole is its' normal size.
> We understand.
No *YOU* don't.
> Sour grapes.
Make the sweetest wine?
WangoTango
Mar 23, 2012, 3:34:47 PM3/23/12
to
accustomed to the buggery and general corruption of the church YOU
belong to, that you dismiss the entire affair as old hat.
Ray Fischer
Mar 23, 2012, 5:26:45 PM3/23/12
to
child molesters to continue.
Paul Duca
Mar 23, 2012, 6:01:50 PM3/23/12
to
On Mar 23, 8:28 am, "Patrick" <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
> "Attila" <<procho...@here.now> wrote in message
>
> news:7jbom7dgqevgkv1uc...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 17:31:43 -0400, "Patrick" <barker...@erinot.com>
> > in alt.abortion with message-id
> > <V82dnYyDxa2qB_bSnZ2dnUVZ_omdn...@posted.localnet> wrote:
>
> >>"WangoTango" <Asgar...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> >>news:MPG.29d51b8cf...@news.east.earthlink.net...
> >>> In article <weqdnakimsd0kPfSnZ2dnUVZ_qmdn...@posted.localnet>,
> >>> barker...@erinot.com says...
> >>>> "W.T.S." <m...@earthlink.net> wrote
> "Attila" <<procho...@here.now> wrote in message
>
> news:7jbom7dgqevgkv1uc...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 17:31:43 -0400, "Patrick" <barker...@erinot.com>
> > in alt.abortion with message-id
> > <V82dnYyDxa2qB_bSnZ2dnUVZ_omdn...@posted.localnet> wrote:
>
> >>"WangoTango" <Asgar...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> >>news:MPG.29d51b8cf...@news.east.earthlink.net...
> >>> In article <weqdnakimsd0kPfSnZ2dnUVZ_qmdn...@posted.localnet>,
> >>> barker...@erinot.com says...
> >>>> "W.T.S." <m...@earthlink.net> wrote
>
> >>>> > The Catholic Church is soaked in sin. It has no business calling
> >>>> > anyone
> >>>> > a "sinner". Beyond that, the RCC is soaked in unspeakable crimes
> >>>> > against all humanity.
>
> >>>> <yawn>
>
> >>> That is the saddest response of all time.
> >>> The "Church" has gotten itself into so much trouble that the flock just
> >>> doesn't give a shit anymore.
>
> >>The church doesn't pay attention to whiners and sinners.
> >>You were kicked out, and you are pissed.
> >>We understand.
> >>Sour grapes.
>
> > I wish I had joined. I would love to be kicked out, with certificate,
> > ceremony, and everything.
>
> You still have a chance.
> We'll leave a light on for you over the garbage dump.
> >>>> > The Catholic Church is soaked in sin. It has no business calling
> >>>> > anyone
> >>>> > a "sinner". Beyond that, the RCC is soaked in unspeakable crimes
> >>>> > against all humanity.
>
> >>>> <yawn>
>
> >>> That is the saddest response of all time.
> >>> The "Church" has gotten itself into so much trouble that the flock just
> >>> doesn't give a shit anymore.
>
> >>The church doesn't pay attention to whiners and sinners.
> >>You were kicked out, and you are pissed.
> >>We understand.
> >>Sour grapes.
>
> > I wish I had joined. I would love to be kicked out, with certificate,
> > ceremony, and everything.
>
> You still have a chance.
Patrick
Mar 23, 2012, 7:13:22 PM3/23/12
to
"W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote ..
about what you may doubt.... or not doubt.
Don't ask a question if you can't stand the answer.
>> > "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote in news:Npydnbd3Wq-
>> >> "Paul Duca" <paul....@gmail.com> wrote
>> >>> > Pedophile priest pleads guilty
>> >>> > April 25, 2011
>> >>> > Catholic priest Alejandro Jose Castillo pleaded guilty
>> >>>
>> >>> Hope he spends life in prison.
>> >>> We don't need no fags in the priest ministry.
>> >>
>> >> At least until the shortage of warm bodies in the pulpits makes the
>> >> Church think twice...
>> >>
>> >> + Certainly it does.
>> >> + We must be very careful who we select as parish
>> >> priests. We expect a lot from them. Once in a while,
>> >> some slime (like you) slips into the system and disappoints
>> >> us with evil behavior. We all sin. But, we cannot allow
>> >> shithead fags like you to lead our church parishes.
>> >
>> > At this point who is left to lead your parishes?
>>
>> Decent, God-fearing, law abiding, honest seminarians
>> whose purpose is to lead his parish.
> I doubt that there are that many asexual people on the entire face of
> the Earth.
Somehow, you seem to think that I might give a shit
>> >>> > Pedophile priest pleads guilty
>> >>> > April 25, 2011
>> >>> > Catholic priest Alejandro Jose Castillo pleaded guilty
>> >>>
>> >>> Hope he spends life in prison.
>> >>> We don't need no fags in the priest ministry.
>> >>
>> >> At least until the shortage of warm bodies in the pulpits makes the
>> >> Church think twice...
>> >>
>> >> + Certainly it does.
>> >> + We must be very careful who we select as parish
>> >> priests. We expect a lot from them. Once in a while,
>> >> some slime (like you) slips into the system and disappoints
>> >> us with evil behavior. We all sin. But, we cannot allow
>> >> shithead fags like you to lead our church parishes.
>> >
>> > At this point who is left to lead your parishes?
>>
>> Decent, God-fearing, law abiding, honest seminarians
>> whose purpose is to lead his parish.
> I doubt that there are that many asexual people on the entire face of
> the Earth.
about what you may doubt.... or not doubt.
Don't ask a question if you can't stand the answer.
Patrick
Mar 23, 2012, 7:23:09 PM3/23/12
to
"W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.29d6656d3...@news.west.earthlink.net...
It is about if society would be better off without religion.
Man is hardwired to believe in a creator.
To attempt to do away with religion is to attempt to
reengineer the way we human beings are. And what
would the world be like without religion-without
the Parthenon, the Sistine Chapel, the Taj Mahal?
Religion is not an option, it's part of our religious makeup,
it's part of what we are archaeologically, anthropologically,
psychologically, neurologically.
Religion provides four things for us: explanation,
exhortation (what is good, what is bad), inspiration and consolation.
Most of us humans feel comfortable with having been given these
answers. Only those dorks who feel they are greater than
our creator wish to deny Him.
By no means is all religion fundamentalist, extreme, exclusive,
damaging or divisive. However, when you introduce the human
element into the equation, ANYTHING can be taken to extreme.
To blame all our woes on religion is just plain stupid.
As.... you obviously are.
news:MPG.29d6656d3...@news.west.earthlink.net...
> In article <7dGdnffaKq9aPPHS...@posted.localnet>,
> bark...@erinot.com says...
>> "Mitchell Holman" <nomailcomcast.net> wrote
>>
>> > Church officials say priest shortage will worsen
>> > (03/08/12) Church officials in Ogdensburg say Roman
>> > Catholic parishes across the North Country will lose
>> > roughly a third of their priests over the next decade.
>>
>> Yup.
>> Better to have fewer appointed priests that will do
>> the will of God, than to hire a dork like you.
> Better still, to have no one at all. Only then will we have a normal,
> decent society.
This is really not about whether there is a God or not.
> bark...@erinot.com says...
>> "Mitchell Holman" <nomailcomcast.net> wrote
>>
>> > Church officials say priest shortage will worsen
>> > (03/08/12) Church officials in Ogdensburg say Roman
>> > Catholic parishes across the North Country will lose
>> > roughly a third of their priests over the next decade.
>>
>> Yup.
>> Better to have fewer appointed priests that will do
>> the will of God, than to hire a dork like you.
> Better still, to have no one at all. Only then will we have a normal,
> decent society.
It is about if society would be better off without religion.
Man is hardwired to believe in a creator.
To attempt to do away with religion is to attempt to
reengineer the way we human beings are. And what
would the world be like without religion-without
the Parthenon, the Sistine Chapel, the Taj Mahal?
Religion is not an option, it's part of our religious makeup,
it's part of what we are archaeologically, anthropologically,
psychologically, neurologically.
Religion provides four things for us: explanation,
exhortation (what is good, what is bad), inspiration and consolation.
Most of us humans feel comfortable with having been given these
answers. Only those dorks who feel they are greater than
our creator wish to deny Him.
By no means is all religion fundamentalist, extreme, exclusive,
damaging or divisive. However, when you introduce the human
element into the equation, ANYTHING can be taken to extreme.
To blame all our woes on religion is just plain stupid.
As.... you obviously are.
Patrick
Mar 23, 2012, 7:27:52 PM3/23/12
to
"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4f6cea95$0$12025$742e...@news.sonic.net...
> Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote in message
>>news:4f6bf2fa$0$12003$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>>> Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>>>"WangoTango" <Asga...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:MPG.29d51b8cf...@news.east.earthlink.net...
>>>>> In article <weqdnakimsd0kPfS...@posted.localnet>,
>>>>> bark...@erinot.com says...
>>>>>> "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > The Catholic Church is soaked in sin. It has no business calling
>>>>>> > anyone
>>>>>> > a "sinner". Beyond that, the RCC is soaked in unspeakable crimes
>>>>>> > against all humanity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <yawn>
>>>>>
>>>>> That is the saddest response of all time.
>>>>> The "Church" has gotten itself into so much trouble that the flock
>>>>> just
>>>>> doesn't give a shit anymore.
>>>>
>>>>The church doesn't pay attention to whiners and sinners.
>>>
>>> Especially when they're only whining about priests molesting
>>> little girls.
>>
>>Or lying about other allegations that are made up.
>
> See Ratprick fall back on the usual denials and evasions that enable
> child molesters to continue.
If you have a story or two that you wish to
>>"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote in message
>>news:4f6bf2fa$0$12003$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>>> Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>>>"WangoTango" <Asga...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:MPG.29d51b8cf...@news.east.earthlink.net...
>>>>> In article <weqdnakimsd0kPfS...@posted.localnet>,
>>>>> bark...@erinot.com says...
>>>>>> "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > The Catholic Church is soaked in sin. It has no business calling
>>>>>> > anyone
>>>>>> > a "sinner". Beyond that, the RCC is soaked in unspeakable crimes
>>>>>> > against all humanity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <yawn>
>>>>>
>>>>> That is the saddest response of all time.
>>>>> The "Church" has gotten itself into so much trouble that the flock
>>>>> just
>>>>> doesn't give a shit anymore.
>>>>
>>>>The church doesn't pay attention to whiners and sinners.
>>>
>>> Especially when they're only whining about priests molesting
>>> little girls.
>>
>>Or lying about other allegations that are made up.
>
> See Ratprick fall back on the usual denials and evasions that enable
> child molesters to continue.
discuss, then pull them up.
There are over 40,000 priests in the USA alone.
I imagine there are a few sinners among them.
If they break the law, they need to be prosecuted.
Patrick
Mar 23, 2012, 7:29:25 PM3/23/12
to
"WangoTango" <Asga...@mindspring.com> wrote
>> > That is the saddest response of all time.
>> > The "Church" has gotten itself into so much trouble that the flock just
>> > doesn't give a shit anymore.
>>
>> The church doesn't pay attention to whiners and sinners.
>> You were kicked out, and you are pissed.
>> We understand.
>> Sour grapes.
>
> Oh, and this doesn't address the issue that you have become so
> accustomed to the buggery and general corruption of the church YOU
> belong to, that you dismiss the entire affair as old hat.
Lets talk about your favorite subject: buggery.
Please bring up an instance or two within the last 10 years.
>> > That is the saddest response of all time.
>> > The "Church" has gotten itself into so much trouble that the flock just
>> > doesn't give a shit anymore.
>>
>> The church doesn't pay attention to whiners and sinners.
>> You were kicked out, and you are pissed.
>> We understand.
>> Sour grapes.
>
> Oh, and this doesn't address the issue that you have become so
> accustomed to the buggery and general corruption of the church YOU
> belong to, that you dismiss the entire affair as old hat.
Please bring up an instance or two within the last 10 years.
Alan Ferris
Mar 23, 2012, 7:57:44 PM3/23/12
to
On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 19:23:09 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
wrote:
>Man is hardwired to believe in a creator.
Which is why so many manage well enough without.
wrote:
>Man is hardwired to believe in a creator.
Mitchell Holman
Mar 23, 2012, 8:30:30 PM3/23/12
to
"Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote in
news:UKCdnbYSb8JImPDS...@posted.localnet:
> To attempt to do away with religion is to attempt to
> reengineer the way we human beings are. And what
> would the world be like without religion-without
> the Parthenon, the Sistine Chapel, the Taj Mahal?
Without suicide bombers and IRA terrorism
and Al Queda and religious purity trials and
pedophile priests and religious dicatates
about what rules everyone else has to live by?
October 27, 1659
Quakers executed for religious beliefs
William Robinson and Marmaduke Stevenson, two Quakers who
came from England in 1656 to escape religious persecution,
are executed in the Massachusetts Bay Colony for their
religious beliefs. The two had violated a law passed by
the Massachusetts General Court the year before, banning
Quakers from the colony under penalty of death.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history.do?action=Article&id=5472
news:UKCdnbYSb8JImPDS...@posted.localnet:
> To attempt to do away with religion is to attempt to
> reengineer the way we human beings are. And what
> would the world be like without religion-without
> the Parthenon, the Sistine Chapel, the Taj Mahal?
and Al Queda and religious purity trials and
pedophile priests and religious dicatates
about what rules everyone else has to live by?
October 27, 1659
Quakers executed for religious beliefs
William Robinson and Marmaduke Stevenson, two Quakers who
came from England in 1656 to escape religious persecution,
are executed in the Massachusetts Bay Colony for their
religious beliefs. The two had violated a law passed by
the Massachusetts General Court the year before, banning
Quakers from the colony under penalty of death.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history.do?action=Article&id=5472
Free Lunch
Mar 23, 2012, 8:32:00 PM3/23/12
to
On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 19:27:52 -0400, in alt.atheism
"Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote in
<ofydnaczUZNtm_DS...@posted.localnet>:
It is not about the priests who have raped. I never blame any group for
the actions of those who happen to be employees. It is about the coverup
indulged in by bishops worldwide when they discovered that they had
rapist priests. The coverup shows us that the bishops are immoral and
corrupt, that the entire hierarchy is untrustworthy. We know that the
most important bishop, the Pope, has been one of those who made the
coverups last as long as they did. An organization that wanted to end
the corruption would fire Benedict and then start to fire every other
bishop who was complicit in these coverups worldwide. As long as they
continue to make excuses, they are enemies of the Roman Catholic Church.
I think there may be one bishop in Ireland worthy of respect of all of
the bishops in the world.
"Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote in
<ofydnaczUZNtm_DS...@posted.localnet>:
the actions of those who happen to be employees. It is about the coverup
indulged in by bishops worldwide when they discovered that they had
rapist priests. The coverup shows us that the bishops are immoral and
corrupt, that the entire hierarchy is untrustworthy. We know that the
most important bishop, the Pope, has been one of those who made the
coverups last as long as they did. An organization that wanted to end
the corruption would fire Benedict and then start to fire every other
bishop who was complicit in these coverups worldwide. As long as they
continue to make excuses, they are enemies of the Roman Catholic Church.
I think there may be one bishop in Ireland worthy of respect of all of
the bishops in the world.
Patrick
Mar 24, 2012, 4:24:55 AM3/24/12
to
"Mitchell Holman" <nomailcomcast.net> wrote
If that isn't the best argument to outlaw religion.....
Oh wait....
That is exactly what England was trying to do!
> October 27, 1659
> Quakers executed for religious beliefs
> William Robinson and Marmaduke Stevenson, two Quakers who
> came from England in 1656 to escape religious persecution,
Well now....
> Quakers executed for religious beliefs
> William Robinson and Marmaduke Stevenson, two Quakers who
> came from England in 1656 to escape religious persecution,
If that isn't the best argument to outlaw religion.....
Oh wait....
That is exactly what England was trying to do!
Patrick
Mar 24, 2012, 4:36:10 AM3/24/12
to
"Free Lunch" <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote
> It is about the coverup
> indulged in by bishops worldwide when they discovered that they had
> rapist priests. The coverup shows us that the bishops are immoral and
> corrupt, that the entire hierarchy is untrustworthy.
I might agree, except....
I believe the coverup really shows a bunch of incompetent
old men who were clueless about how to handle a problem
beyond their comprehension. Most decent folks cannot understand
how others can be so cruel. Since we would never do such cruel
things, it is beyond us how to correct a problem and still
be true to our own decent selves. After all, if we don't believe in
murder, how can we adequately punish a person who has
murdered? It tales an evil person to come up with some
cruel punishment that will deter another cruel person from
acting on their wishes.....
The coverup was real.
And, this is what really irritated most Catholics.
It caused a real crisis.
It caused the leaders of the church to really sit down,
evaluate what they have done, look for positive
corrective actions, and follow through - no matter what!
> We know that the
> most important bishop, the Pope, has been one of those who made the
> coverups last as long as they did.
All Church leaders followed a protocol that gave them
anonimity, and pushed the problem onto "expert" shrinks
who promised to "cure" the problem.
The Church leaders were wringing their hands and hoping
the problem would just go away.
It didn't.
> An organization that wanted to end
> the corruption would fire Benedict and then start to fire every other
> bishop who was complicit in these coverups worldwide. As long as they
> continue to make excuses, they are enemies of the Roman Catholic Church.
> I think there may be one bishop in Ireland worthy of respect of all of
> the bishops in the world.
Three other Irish bishops were summarily fired for their actions.
Catholic bishops in the 50's and 60's viewed sexual abuse by priests as "a
spiritual problem, one requiring a spiritual solution, i.e. prayer".
However, starting in the sixties, the bishops came to adopt an emerging view
based on the advice of medical personnel who recommended psychiatric and
psychological treatment for those who sexually abused minors. This view
asserted that, with proper treatment, priests who had molested children
could safely be placed back into ministry. This approach viewed pedophilia
as an addiction, such as alcoholism which many feel cannot be cured but
which can be treated and restrained.
In 1962, Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani, Secretary of the Sacred Congregation of
the Holy Office, sent a letter which became known as the Crimen
sollicitationis. In this letter, the Holy Office laid down procedures to be
followed in dealing with cases of clerics (priests or bishops) of the Roman
Catholic Church accused of having used the sacrament of Penance to make
sexual advances to penitents. In addition, it reiterated the seriousness
and gravity of ever breaking the seal of confession.
In 1983, the Vatican promulgated a revised Code of Canon Law which included
a canon (1395, 2) which explicitly named sex with a minor by clerics as a
canonical crime.
The burgeoning number of scandals evoked deep concern among some Catholic
observers, and in 1985 a confidential report entitled "The Problem of Sexual
Molestation by Roman Catholic Clergy: Meeting the Problem in a Comprehensive
and Responsible Matter" was submitted to the Catholic hierarchy. The authors
included Gauthe's attorney, F. Ray Mouton, and two clerics [priests], Thomas
P. Doyle and Michael Peterson.... The group warned of the need to take
urgent action in the face of scandals, to react swiftly to complaints, and
also to avoid charges of secretive proceedings or cover-ups. (p. 37)
Tragically, either this advice was not followed, or not followed often
enough.
This approach continued to be practiced by the bishops well into the
mid-1980s, a period which characterizes as the "tipping point in the
understanding of the problem within the church and in society".
Pope John Paul II took a number of steps to address the problem of priestly
formation. On March 25, 1992, he completed the apostolic exhortation
Pastores Dabo Vobis ("I Shall Give You Shepherds"), one of the longest papal
documents in history. This explored the crisis of priestly identity, the
renewal of priestly life and the reform of seminaries in detail. Some have
attributed the scant number of abuse allegations from the 1990s as evidence
that the late Pope's reform efforts were fruitful.
In April 2001, Pope John Paul II issued Sacramentorum sanctitatis tutela
(Safeguarding the Sanctity of the Sacraments). This replaced the Crimen
sollicitationis. All priestly sex crimes cases were to be placed under the
Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith which, in most cases,
would authorize the bishops to conduct trials themselves. In May 2001, a
letter from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, in line with the
1983 Code of Canon Law and the 1990 Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches,
was sent to the Catholic bishops.
Pope John Paul II declared in 2003 that "there is no place in the priesthood
and religious life for those who would harm the young". With the approval
of the Vatican, the hierarchy of the church in the United States instituted
reforms to prevent future abuse including requiring background checks for
Church employees and volunteers and, noting the preponderance of adolescent
males (teenage boys) amongst victims of abuse, warned that a more searching
inquiry is necessary for a homosexually oriented man; and the worldwide
Church also prohibited the ordination of men with "deep-seated homosexual
tendencies."
Early in 2010 Cardinal Claudio Hummes, the head of the Congregation for
Clergy, said that instances of sexual abuse by priests were "criminal facts"
as well as serious sins and required co-operation with the civil justice
system
The Pope took the extraordinary steps of ordering the retirement of Cardinal
Bernard Law Archbishop John Aloysius Ward, the most senior member of the
Roman Catholic Church in Wales, in the wake of a paedophile scandal which
rocked their dioceses to its foundations. The 72-year-old archbishop Ward,
who had been under severe criticism from clergy and congregations following
the convictions of two priests for child sexual abuse offences, was forced
to resign despite making clear his determination to stay in office. He had
been accused of repeatedly ignoring warnings about the two priests' conduct.
> It is not about the priests who have raped. I never blame any group for
> the actions of those who happen to be employees.
Really?
> the actions of those who happen to be employees.
> It is about the coverup
> indulged in by bishops worldwide when they discovered that they had
> rapist priests. The coverup shows us that the bishops are immoral and
> corrupt, that the entire hierarchy is untrustworthy.
I believe the coverup really shows a bunch of incompetent
old men who were clueless about how to handle a problem
beyond their comprehension. Most decent folks cannot understand
how others can be so cruel. Since we would never do such cruel
things, it is beyond us how to correct a problem and still
be true to our own decent selves. After all, if we don't believe in
murder, how can we adequately punish a person who has
murdered? It tales an evil person to come up with some
cruel punishment that will deter another cruel person from
acting on their wishes.....
The coverup was real.
And, this is what really irritated most Catholics.
It caused a real crisis.
It caused the leaders of the church to really sit down,
evaluate what they have done, look for positive
corrective actions, and follow through - no matter what!
> We know that the
> most important bishop, the Pope, has been one of those who made the
> coverups last as long as they did.
anonimity, and pushed the problem onto "expert" shrinks
who promised to "cure" the problem.
The Church leaders were wringing their hands and hoping
the problem would just go away.
It didn't.
> An organization that wanted to end
> the corruption would fire Benedict and then start to fire every other
> bishop who was complicit in these coverups worldwide. As long as they
> continue to make excuses, they are enemies of the Roman Catholic Church.
> I think there may be one bishop in Ireland worthy of respect of all of
> the bishops in the world.
Catholic bishops in the 50's and 60's viewed sexual abuse by priests as "a
spiritual problem, one requiring a spiritual solution, i.e. prayer".
However, starting in the sixties, the bishops came to adopt an emerging view
based on the advice of medical personnel who recommended psychiatric and
psychological treatment for those who sexually abused minors. This view
asserted that, with proper treatment, priests who had molested children
could safely be placed back into ministry. This approach viewed pedophilia
as an addiction, such as alcoholism which many feel cannot be cured but
which can be treated and restrained.
In 1962, Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani, Secretary of the Sacred Congregation of
the Holy Office, sent a letter which became known as the Crimen
sollicitationis. In this letter, the Holy Office laid down procedures to be
followed in dealing with cases of clerics (priests or bishops) of the Roman
Catholic Church accused of having used the sacrament of Penance to make
sexual advances to penitents. In addition, it reiterated the seriousness
and gravity of ever breaking the seal of confession.
In 1983, the Vatican promulgated a revised Code of Canon Law which included
a canon (1395, 2) which explicitly named sex with a minor by clerics as a
canonical crime.
The burgeoning number of scandals evoked deep concern among some Catholic
observers, and in 1985 a confidential report entitled "The Problem of Sexual
Molestation by Roman Catholic Clergy: Meeting the Problem in a Comprehensive
and Responsible Matter" was submitted to the Catholic hierarchy. The authors
included Gauthe's attorney, F. Ray Mouton, and two clerics [priests], Thomas
P. Doyle and Michael Peterson.... The group warned of the need to take
urgent action in the face of scandals, to react swiftly to complaints, and
also to avoid charges of secretive proceedings or cover-ups. (p. 37)
Tragically, either this advice was not followed, or not followed often
enough.
This approach continued to be practiced by the bishops well into the
mid-1980s, a period which characterizes as the "tipping point in the
understanding of the problem within the church and in society".
Pope John Paul II took a number of steps to address the problem of priestly
formation. On March 25, 1992, he completed the apostolic exhortation
Pastores Dabo Vobis ("I Shall Give You Shepherds"), one of the longest papal
documents in history. This explored the crisis of priestly identity, the
renewal of priestly life and the reform of seminaries in detail. Some have
attributed the scant number of abuse allegations from the 1990s as evidence
that the late Pope's reform efforts were fruitful.
In April 2001, Pope John Paul II issued Sacramentorum sanctitatis tutela
(Safeguarding the Sanctity of the Sacraments). This replaced the Crimen
sollicitationis. All priestly sex crimes cases were to be placed under the
Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith which, in most cases,
would authorize the bishops to conduct trials themselves. In May 2001, a
letter from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, in line with the
1983 Code of Canon Law and the 1990 Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches,
was sent to the Catholic bishops.
Pope John Paul II declared in 2003 that "there is no place in the priesthood
and religious life for those who would harm the young". With the approval
of the Vatican, the hierarchy of the church in the United States instituted
reforms to prevent future abuse including requiring background checks for
Church employees and volunteers and, noting the preponderance of adolescent
males (teenage boys) amongst victims of abuse, warned that a more searching
inquiry is necessary for a homosexually oriented man; and the worldwide
Church also prohibited the ordination of men with "deep-seated homosexual
tendencies."
Early in 2010 Cardinal Claudio Hummes, the head of the Congregation for
Clergy, said that instances of sexual abuse by priests were "criminal facts"
as well as serious sins and required co-operation with the civil justice
system
The Pope took the extraordinary steps of ordering the retirement of Cardinal
Bernard Law Archbishop John Aloysius Ward, the most senior member of the
Roman Catholic Church in Wales, in the wake of a paedophile scandal which
rocked their dioceses to its foundations. The 72-year-old archbishop Ward,
who had been under severe criticism from clergy and congregations following
the convictions of two priests for child sexual abuse offences, was forced
to resign despite making clear his determination to stay in office. He had
been accused of repeatedly ignoring warnings about the two priests' conduct.
W.T.S.
Mar 24, 2012, 5:26:37 AM3/24/12
to
In article <kISdnbxgo7aNGPDS...@posted.localnet>,
bark...@erinot.com says...
> "Mitchell Holman" <nomailcomcast.net> wrote in message
> news:XnsA01FC4EEC4A43...@216.196.121.131...
> > "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote in news:Lf-
> > dnQu1DYySm_DSn...@posted.localnet:
> >
> >> "Mitchell Holman" <nomailcomcast.net> wrote
> >>>
> >>> Your flock is shrinking, your shepherds are
> >>> shrinking - will the last Catholic to leave the
> >>> faith please close the door behind you?
> >>
> >> You will never see this happen.
> >> Not when there are over one billion of us strong.
>
> > ....the majority of which is reaching
> > retirement age. Then what?
>
> Then we die and leave vast amounts of
> monies and land to the church to attract
> more followers.
Considering the record of the Catholic Church, who's stupid enough to
leave the Church one red cent, especially if it left his or her family
destitute?
But, if one is a member of the RCC, one is running a quart low to begin
with.
bark...@erinot.com says...
> "Mitchell Holman" <nomailcomcast.net> wrote in message
> news:XnsA01FC4EEC4A43...@216.196.121.131...
> > "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote in news:Lf-
> > dnQu1DYySm_DSn...@posted.localnet:
> >
> >> "Mitchell Holman" <nomailcomcast.net> wrote
> >>>
> >>> Your flock is shrinking, your shepherds are
> >>> shrinking - will the last Catholic to leave the
> >>> faith please close the door behind you?
> >>
> >> You will never see this happen.
> >> Not when there are over one billion of us strong.
>
> > ....the majority of which is reaching
> > retirement age. Then what?
>
> Then we die and leave vast amounts of
> monies and land to the church to attract
> more followers.
Considering the record of the Catholic Church, who's stupid enough to
leave the Church one red cent, especially if it left his or her family
destitute?
But, if one is a member of the RCC, one is running a quart low to begin
with.
Alan Ferris
Mar 24, 2012, 5:47:44 AM3/24/12
to
On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 04:24:55 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
wrote:
How fucking stupid are you? Since when did England ever outlaw
religion.
They were killed in Boston despite and order from the King to try and
prevent this. Sadly you Americans were the kings of intolerance and
wanted to outlaw Quakers to the extent that you killed 3 of them.
Boston martyrs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_martyrs
Obviously they try and cut the bad history out when teaching it there.
wrote:
religion.
They were killed in Boston despite and order from the King to try and
prevent this. Sadly you Americans were the kings of intolerance and
wanted to outlaw Quakers to the extent that you killed 3 of them.
Boston martyrs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_martyrs
Obviously they try and cut the bad history out when teaching it there.
Message has been deleted
• R. L. Measures.
Mar 24, 2012, 6:27:39 AM3/24/12
to
In article <4f6cea95$0$12025$742e...@news.sonic.net>, rfis...@sonic.net wrote:
>Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote in message
>>news:4f6bf2fa$0$12003$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>>> Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>>>"WangoTango" <Asga...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:MPG.29d51b8cf...@news.east.earthlink.net...
>>>>> In article <weqdnakimsd0kPfS...@posted.localnet>,
>>>>> bark...@erinot.com says...
>>>>>> "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > The Catholic Church is soaked in sin. It has no business calling
>>>>>> > anyone
>>>>>> > a "sinner". Beyond that, the RCC is soaked in unspeakable crimes
>>>>>> > against all humanity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <yawn>
>>>>>
>>>>> That is the saddest response of all time.
>>>>> The "Church" has gotten itself into so much trouble that the flock just
>>>>> doesn't give a shit anymore.
>>>>
>>>>The church doesn't pay attention to whiners and sinners.
>>>
>>> Especially when they're only whining about priests molesting
>>> little girls.
>>
>>Or lying about other allegations that are made up.
>
>See Ratprick fall back on the usual denials and evasions that enable
>child molesters to continue.
• Neither Patrick or Earl can come to grips with the fact that there were
>Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote in message
>>news:4f6bf2fa$0$12003$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>>> Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>>>"WangoTango" <Asga...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:MPG.29d51b8cf...@news.east.earthlink.net...
>>>>> In article <weqdnakimsd0kPfS...@posted.localnet>,
>>>>> bark...@erinot.com says...
>>>>>> "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > The Catholic Church is soaked in sin. It has no business calling
>>>>>> > anyone
>>>>>> > a "sinner". Beyond that, the RCC is soaked in unspeakable crimes
>>>>>> > against all humanity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <yawn>
>>>>>
>>>>> That is the saddest response of all time.
>>>>> The "Church" has gotten itself into so much trouble that the flock just
>>>>> doesn't give a shit anymore.
>>>>
>>>>The church doesn't pay attention to whiners and sinners.
>>>
>>> Especially when they're only whining about priests molesting
>>> little girls.
>>
>>Or lying about other allegations that are made up.
>
>See Ratprick fall back on the usual denials and evasions that enable
>child molesters to continue.
thousands of priests who diddled altar-boys.
Alan Ferris
Mar 24, 2012, 7:27:35 AM3/24/12
to
On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 03:27:39 -0700, r...@somis.org (• R. L. Measures.)
wrote:
>>See Ratprick fall back on the usual denials and evasions that enable
>>child molesters to continue.
>
>• Neither Patrick or Earl can come to grips with the fact that there were
>thousands of priests who diddled altar-boys.
Abusers rarely can come to terms with what they or others have done.
wrote:
>>See Ratprick fall back on the usual denials and evasions that enable
>>child molesters to continue.
>
>• Neither Patrick or Earl can come to grips with the fact that there were
>thousands of priests who diddled altar-boys.
Mitchell Holman
Mar 24, 2012, 9:13:13 AM3/24/12
to
"Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote in
news:A4udnQtVlNdSGfDS...@posted.localnet:
So much for the myth that America was founded
by people seeking religious freedom.
Meet the new Religious Tyranny, same as the old
Religious Tryanny.......
Mary Dyer was a follower of mid-wife and religious
activist Anne Marbury Hutchinson. Her views about
God and religion were considered heresy by the
Puritan religion In 1658, a law was passed banishing
Quakers under "pain of death." Mary Dyer was executed,
hanged for being a Quaker on June 1, 1660.
http://www.womeninhistoryprograms.com/dyer.html
news:A4udnQtVlNdSGfDS...@posted.localnet:
by people seeking religious freedom.
Meet the new Religious Tyranny, same as the old
Religious Tryanny.......
Mary Dyer was a follower of mid-wife and religious
activist Anne Marbury Hutchinson. Her views about
God and religion were considered heresy by the
Puritan religion In 1658, a law was passed banishing
Quakers under "pain of death." Mary Dyer was executed,
hanged for being a Quaker on June 1, 1660.
http://www.womeninhistoryprograms.com/dyer.html
Patrick
Mar 24, 2012, 9:23:43 AM3/24/12
to
"Mitchell Holman" <nomailcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:XnsA02052FCBD442...@216.196.121.131...
> "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote in
> news:A4udnQtVlNdSGfDS...@posted.localnet:
>
>> "Mitchell Holman" <nomailcomcast.net> wrote
>>> October 27, 1659
>>> Quakers executed for religious beliefs
>>> William Robinson and Marmaduke Stevenson, two Quakers who
>>> came from England in 1656 to escape religious persecution,
>>
>> Well now....
>> If that isn't the best argument to outlaw religion.....
>> Oh wait....
>> That is exactly what England was trying to do!
> So much for the myth that America was founded
> by people seeking religious freedom.
> Meet the new Religious Tyranny, same as the old
> Religious Tryanny.......
> news:A4udnQtVlNdSGfDS...@posted.localnet:
>
>> "Mitchell Holman" <nomailcomcast.net> wrote
>>> October 27, 1659
>>> Quakers executed for religious beliefs
>>> William Robinson and Marmaduke Stevenson, two Quakers who
>>> came from England in 1656 to escape religious persecution,
>>
>> Well now....
>> If that isn't the best argument to outlaw religion.....
>> Oh wait....
>> That is exactly what England was trying to do!
> So much for the myth that America was founded
> by people seeking religious freedom.
> Meet the new Religious Tyranny, same as the old
> Religious Tryanny.......
> Quakers under "pain of death." Mary Dyer was executed,
> hanged for being a Quaker on June 1, 1660.
Are you blaming Catholics on this?
> hanged for being a Quaker on June 1, 1660.
Patrick
Mar 24, 2012, 9:24:58 AM3/24/12
to
"W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote in >
Your mom?
>> >>> Your flock is shrinking, your shepherds are
>> >>> shrinking - will the last Catholic to leave the
>> >>> faith please close the door behind you?
>> >>
>> >> You will never see this happen.
>> >> Not when there are over one billion of us strong.
>>
>> > ....the majority of which is reaching
>> > retirement age. Then what?
>>
>> Then we die and leave vast amounts of
>> monies and land to the church to attract
>> more followers.
> Considering the record of the Catholic Church, who's stupid enough to
> leave the Church one red cent, especially if it left his or her family
> destitute?
Oh, I dunno.
>> >>> shrinking - will the last Catholic to leave the
>> >>> faith please close the door behind you?
>> >>
>> >> You will never see this happen.
>> >> Not when there are over one billion of us strong.
>>
>> > ....the majority of which is reaching
>> > retirement age. Then what?
>>
>> Then we die and leave vast amounts of
>> monies and land to the church to attract
>> more followers.
> Considering the record of the Catholic Church, who's stupid enough to
> leave the Church one red cent, especially if it left his or her family
> destitute?
Your mom?
Patrick
Mar 24, 2012, 9:36:24 AM3/24/12
to
". R. L. Measures." <r...@somis.org> wrote
> . Neither Patrick or Earl can come to grips with the fact that there were
Admit what?
Of course I admit that some evil fag priests abused their position
and sexually abused children.
Of course I admit that bishops were dumbfounded as to what
they should do. Since most victims and families wanted to keep
the abuse quiet, the bishops looked for other solutions. They sought
advice from the leading shrinks of the day, and by God, they were
stupid enough to follow that advice. And because of this, the church
has paid out $ 3 Billion to the lawyers of the victims who came forward
40 years after the fact.
Those bishops sent those offending evil fag priests to treatment
centers were they were "cured." Since the RCC is in the forgiveness
business, not the punishment business, they again made more
mistakes by believing the repentant evil fag priest was sorry for
his sins, and they allowed him to remain in the ministry.
I admit this was a bad decision on the part of the bishops
This is all fact. Of course I admit it.
The evil fag priests were bad. Of course I admit it.
The bishops were stupid and made the wrong choices. I admit that.
The fact is that YOU refuse to admit that perhaps the RCC
made its mistakes, admitted its mistakes, paid for those mistakes,
and has made positive corrective actions to prevent this from
ever happening again. No fag priest is now allowed in the ministry.
As soon as any priest is accused of misconduct, he is immediately
removed from the ministry. The bishops all have marching orders
to cooperate with civil authorities when it comes to this crime.
You don't want to let this go, because you have another agenda
against the RCC. You feel you were wronged by the RCC in some
way - perhaps because they informed you that YOU are totally
responsible for your bad decisions and your actions. You have
some sort of sin that you feel should be accepted by the church.
And you are pissed because the RCC refuses to let you off the hook.
What is your particular sin? Abortion? Divorce? Homosexual acts?
What is it?
> . Neither Patrick or Earl can come to grips with the fact that there were
> thousands of priests who diddled altar-boys.
Yes, we can.
Admit what?
Of course I admit that some evil fag priests abused their position
and sexually abused children.
Of course I admit that bishops were dumbfounded as to what
they should do. Since most victims and families wanted to keep
the abuse quiet, the bishops looked for other solutions. They sought
advice from the leading shrinks of the day, and by God, they were
stupid enough to follow that advice. And because of this, the church
has paid out $ 3 Billion to the lawyers of the victims who came forward
40 years after the fact.
Those bishops sent those offending evil fag priests to treatment
centers were they were "cured." Since the RCC is in the forgiveness
business, not the punishment business, they again made more
mistakes by believing the repentant evil fag priest was sorry for
his sins, and they allowed him to remain in the ministry.
I admit this was a bad decision on the part of the bishops
This is all fact. Of course I admit it.
The evil fag priests were bad. Of course I admit it.
The bishops were stupid and made the wrong choices. I admit that.
The fact is that YOU refuse to admit that perhaps the RCC
made its mistakes, admitted its mistakes, paid for those mistakes,
and has made positive corrective actions to prevent this from
ever happening again. No fag priest is now allowed in the ministry.
As soon as any priest is accused of misconduct, he is immediately
removed from the ministry. The bishops all have marching orders
to cooperate with civil authorities when it comes to this crime.
You don't want to let this go, because you have another agenda
against the RCC. You feel you were wronged by the RCC in some
way - perhaps because they informed you that YOU are totally
responsible for your bad decisions and your actions. You have
some sort of sin that you feel should be accepted by the church.
And you are pissed because the RCC refuses to let you off the hook.
What is your particular sin? Abortion? Divorce? Homosexual acts?
What is it?
Patrick
Mar 24, 2012, 9:37:39 AM3/24/12
to
"Attila" <<proc...@here.now> wrote
>
> I suspect the only way I could get in would be to lie a lot. Unless
> there are no entrance requirements? I wouldn't know since I have
> never even come close to joining any superstition.
That is exactly how your buddies joined the church.
>
> I suspect the only way I could get in would be to lie a lot. Unless
> there are no entrance requirements? I wouldn't know since I have
> never even come close to joining any superstition.
That is exactly how your buddies joined the church.
Alan Ferris
Mar 24, 2012, 11:47:12 AM3/24/12
to
On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 09:36:24 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
wrote:
>". R. L. Measures." <r...@somis.org> wrote
>> . Neither Patrick or Earl can come to grips with the fact that there were
>> thousands of priests who diddled altar-boys.
>
>Yes, we can.
>Admit what?
>
>Of course I admit
"From a priest's point of view, you have done harm, not good.
You have practiced vice, rather than virtue. From a Catholic
perspective, Patrick, what you do here is sinful."
- Father Rob Dye to Patrick Barker, Jan.25,2005
wrote:
>". R. L. Measures." <r...@somis.org> wrote
>> . Neither Patrick or Earl can come to grips with the fact that there were
>> thousands of priests who diddled altar-boys.
>
>Yes, we can.
>Admit what?
>
>Of course I admit
You have practiced vice, rather than virtue. From a Catholic
perspective, Patrick, what you do here is sinful."
- Father Rob Dye to Patrick Barker, Jan.25,2005
Alan Ferris
Mar 24, 2012, 11:47:48 AM3/24/12
to
On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 09:37:39 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
wrote:
>"Attila" <<proc...@here.now> wrote
>>
>> I suspect the only way I could get in would be to lie a lot. Unless
>> there are no entrance requirements? I wouldn't know since I have
>> never even come close to joining any superstition.
>
>That is exactly how
"***YOU***, on the other hand, *claim* to be a catholic. Therefore,
is is morally required that you *act* like one. You are supposed to
be a model of charity, patience, peace, hope, wisdom, and love.
You are doing none of this in your posts here."
Fr. Robert Dye to Patric Barker
wrote:
>"Attila" <<proc...@here.now> wrote
>>
>> I suspect the only way I could get in would be to lie a lot. Unless
>> there are no entrance requirements? I wouldn't know since I have
>> never even come close to joining any superstition.
>
>That is exactly how
is is morally required that you *act* like one. You are supposed to
be a model of charity, patience, peace, hope, wisdom, and love.
You are doing none of this in your posts here."
Fr. Robert Dye to Patric Barker
• R. L. Measures.
Mar 24, 2012, 1:50:07 PM3/24/12
to
In article <lsbrm7tptrms00b7g...@4ax.com>, Alan Ferris
wine at the time.
<hairy....@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 03:27:39 -0700, r...@somis.org (• R. L. Measures.)
>wrote:
>
>>>See Ratprick fall back on the usual denials and evasions that enable
>>>child molesters to continue.
>>
>>• Neither Patrick or Earl can come to grips with the fact that there were
>>thousands of priests who diddled altar-boys.
>
>Abusers rarely can come to terms with what they or others have done.
>
• They probably don't remember anything if they were drinking sacramental
>On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 03:27:39 -0700, r...@somis.org (• R. L. Measures.)
>wrote:
>
>>>See Ratprick fall back on the usual denials and evasions that enable
>>>child molesters to continue.
>>
>>• Neither Patrick or Earl can come to grips with the fact that there were
>>thousands of priests who diddled altar-boys.
>
>Abusers rarely can come to terms with what they or others have done.
>
wine at the time.
Ray Fischer
Mar 24, 2012, 2:43:27 PM3/24/12
to
>> It is about the coverup
>> indulged in by bishops worldwide when they discovered that they had
>> rapist priests. The coverup shows us that the bishops are immoral and
>> corrupt, that the entire hierarchy is untrustworthy.
>
>I might agree, except....
>I believe the coverup really shows a bunch of incompetent
>old men who were clueless about how to handle a problem
>beyond their comprehension.
You think that you're defending the actions of the catholic church,
>> indulged in by bishops worldwide when they discovered that they had
>> rapist priests. The coverup shows us that the bishops are immoral and
>> corrupt, that the entire hierarchy is untrustworthy.
>
>I might agree, except....
>I believe the coverup really shows a bunch of incompetent
>old men who were clueless about how to handle a problem
>beyond their comprehension.
but you're only confirming that the church is without morals.
Really, who needs to figure out what to do with a child molester?
You MAKE THEM STOP and to try to make amends. You don't whisk them
away form accusers and let them set up shop in another community.
It's not hard to figure out. That bishops wouldn't know what to do
just shows that the church does not understand morality.
Ray Fischer
Mar 24, 2012, 2:43:58 PM3/24/12
to
Ray Fischer
Mar 24, 2012, 2:45:38 PM3/24/12
to
Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>". R. L. Measures." <r...@somis.org> wrote
>> . Neither Patrick or Earl can come to grips with the fact that there were
>> thousands of priests who diddled altar-boys.
>
>Yes, we can.
No, you cannot, because you won't.
>". R. L. Measures." <r...@somis.org> wrote
>> . Neither Patrick or Earl can come to grips with the fact that there were
>> thousands of priests who diddled altar-boys.
>
>Yes, we can.
>Admit what?
Q.E.D.
>Of course I admit that some evil fag priests abused their position
>Of course I admit that bishops were dumbfounded as to what
>they should do.
no understanding of what are moral actions.
> Since most victims and families wanted to keep
>the abuse quiet,
Ray Fischer
Mar 24, 2012, 2:46:34 PM3/24/12
to
sins.
linuxgal
Mar 24, 2012, 12:10:14 AM3/24/12
to
something wrong with all the priests and they were ALL gay.
Patrick
Mar 24, 2012, 3:13:54 PM3/24/12
to
"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote
I am merely explaining why certain actions were not taken.
If defending means I am calling the bishops incompetent, so be it.
The Church had morals. The bishops merely were incompetent.
> Really, who needs to figure out what to do with a child molester?
Ask the parents of the victim.
Did they want the problem to go away?
Did they want the perp punished?
Ask them.
> You MAKE THEM STOP and to try to make amends. You don't whisk them
> away form accusers and let them set up shop in another community.
No one was whisked away. The alleged molestor was
sent to "competent" authorities who were supposed to "cure" them.
How many times do I have to remind you of this?
Are you stupid?
> It's not hard to figure out. That bishops wouldn't know what to do
> just shows that the church does not understand morality.
They know it better than you, rabo.
They don't condemn you for what yer mama did to you.
> Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>"Free Lunch" <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote
>
>>> It is about the coverup
>>> indulged in by bishops worldwide when they discovered that they had
>>> rapist priests. The coverup shows us that the bishops are immoral and
>>> corrupt, that the entire hierarchy is untrustworthy.
>>
>>I might agree, except....
>>I believe the coverup really shows a bunch of incompetent
>>old men who were clueless about how to handle a problem
>>beyond their comprehension.
>
> You think that you're defending the actions of the catholic church,
> but you're only confirming that the church is without morals.
I do not think I am defending.
>>"Free Lunch" <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote
>
>>> It is about the coverup
>>> indulged in by bishops worldwide when they discovered that they had
>>> rapist priests. The coverup shows us that the bishops are immoral and
>>> corrupt, that the entire hierarchy is untrustworthy.
>>
>>I might agree, except....
>>I believe the coverup really shows a bunch of incompetent
>>old men who were clueless about how to handle a problem
>>beyond their comprehension.
>
> You think that you're defending the actions of the catholic church,
> but you're only confirming that the church is without morals.
I am merely explaining why certain actions were not taken.
If defending means I am calling the bishops incompetent, so be it.
The Church had morals. The bishops merely were incompetent.
> Really, who needs to figure out what to do with a child molester?
Did they want the problem to go away?
Did they want the perp punished?
Ask them.
> You MAKE THEM STOP and to try to make amends. You don't whisk them
> away form accusers and let them set up shop in another community.
sent to "competent" authorities who were supposed to "cure" them.
How many times do I have to remind you of this?
Are you stupid?
> It's not hard to figure out. That bishops wouldn't know what to do
> just shows that the church does not understand morality.
They don't condemn you for what yer mama did to you.
Patrick
Mar 24, 2012, 3:18:10 PM3/24/12
to
"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote ..
>>Of course I admit that bishops were dumbfounded as to what
>>they should do.
>
> See Ratprick admit that self-professed moral teachers really have
> no understanding of what are moral actions.
No one knows what to do when confronted with
a problem they are unequipped to deal with. Only
God knew what to do: kill all the fags.
> Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>Of course I admit that some evil fag priests abused their position
>
> See the malicious bigot try to shift the blame onto innocent people.
If the fag priest didn't abuse the child, who did?
>>Of course I admit that some evil fag priests abused their position
>
> See the malicious bigot try to shift the blame onto innocent people.
>>Of course I admit that bishops were dumbfounded as to what
>>they should do.
>
> See Ratprick admit that self-professed moral teachers really have
> no understanding of what are moral actions.
a problem they are unequipped to deal with. Only
God knew what to do: kill all the fags.
Patrick
Mar 24, 2012, 3:19:20 PM3/24/12
to
"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4f6e168a$0$11988$742e...@news.sonic.net...
> Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>"Attila" <<proc...@here.now> wrote
>>>
>>> I suspect the only way I could get in would be to lie a lot. Unless
>>> there are no entrance requirements? I wouldn't know since I have
>>> never even come close to joining any superstition.
>>
>>That is exactly how your buddies joined the church.
>
> See Ratprick screech his lies and hate rather than repent for his
> sins.
Your buddies molesting children are not my fault.
>>"Attila" <<proc...@here.now> wrote
>>>
>>> I suspect the only way I could get in would be to lie a lot. Unless
>>> there are no entrance requirements? I wouldn't know since I have
>>> never even come close to joining any superstition.
>>
>>That is exactly how your buddies joined the church.
>
> See Ratprick screech his lies and hate rather than repent for his
> sins.
Therefore, I cannot repent your you or your buds.
Alan Ferris
Mar 24, 2012, 3:28:35 PM3/24/12
to
On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 15:13:54 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
wrote:
>> You think that you're defending the actions of the catholic church,
>> but you're only confirming that the church is without morals.
>
>I do not think I am defending.
Barker on child abuse:
"+ STOP BLAMING THE CHURCH.
+ The media has deliberately manipulated the scandal. They have
attempted to discredit the Catholic Church without showing the problem
of child abuse in total." - "Pat Barker" <barker...@erinet.com>
Message-ID: <q1vo7vcdde2g8ca98...@4ax.com>
"+ There are so many more things to worry about in this world than a
few victims who were abused by some priest 40 years ago. If that was
the worst that ever happened to them, they should consider themselves
lucky." - "Pat Barker" <barker...@erinet.com>
Message-ID: <7qsg3v06647ibutl3hp82200f3q4nfc...@4ax.com>
wrote:
>> You think that you're defending the actions of the catholic church,
>> but you're only confirming that the church is without morals.
>
>I do not think I am defending.
"+ STOP BLAMING THE CHURCH.
+ The media has deliberately manipulated the scandal. They have
attempted to discredit the Catholic Church without showing the problem
of child abuse in total." - "Pat Barker" <barker...@erinet.com>
Message-ID: <q1vo7vcdde2g8ca98...@4ax.com>
"+ There are so many more things to worry about in this world than a
few victims who were abused by some priest 40 years ago. If that was
the worst that ever happened to them, they should consider themselves
lucky." - "Pat Barker" <barker...@erinet.com>
Message-ID: <7qsg3v06647ibutl3hp82200f3q4nfc...@4ax.com>
Alan Ferris
Mar 24, 2012, 3:29:56 PM3/24/12
to
On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 15:19:20 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
wrote:
>> See Ratprick screech his lies and hate rather than repent for his
>> sins.
>
>My buddies molesting children are not my fault.
"+ Sometimes I wish that Uncle Skippy had been a priest when he was
abusing me. Then I would have had something tangible to blame. I
could yell at the church, the bishops and the priests. I could be
like all you other guys. " - Patrck Barker
Message-ID: <gbi18v43aeidscf09...@4ax.com>
wrote:
>> See Ratprick screech his lies and hate rather than repent for his
>> sins.
>
"+ Sometimes I wish that Uncle Skippy had been a priest when he was
abusing me. Then I would have had something tangible to blame. I
could yell at the church, the bishops and the priests. I could be
like all you other guys. " - Patrck Barker
Message-ID: <gbi18v43aeidscf09...@4ax.com>
Ray Fischer
Mar 24, 2012, 4:00:02 PM3/24/12
to
Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote
>> Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>>"Free Lunch" <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote
>>
>>>> It is about the coverup
>>>> indulged in by bishops worldwide when they discovered that they had
>>>> rapist priests. The coverup shows us that the bishops are immoral and
>>>> corrupt, that the entire hierarchy is untrustworthy.
>>>
>>>I might agree, except....
>>>I believe the coverup really shows a bunch of incompetent
>>>old men who were clueless about how to handle a problem
>>>beyond their comprehension.
>>
>> You think that you're defending the actions of the catholic church,
>> but you're only confirming that the church is without morals.
>
>I do not think I am defending.
It is obvious that you are.
>"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote
>> Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>>"Free Lunch" <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote
>>
>>>> It is about the coverup
>>>> indulged in by bishops worldwide when they discovered that they had
>>>> rapist priests. The coverup shows us that the bishops are immoral and
>>>> corrupt, that the entire hierarchy is untrustworthy.
>>>
>>>I might agree, except....
>>>I believe the coverup really shows a bunch of incompetent
>>>old men who were clueless about how to handle a problem
>>>beyond their comprehension.
>>
>> You think that you're defending the actions of the catholic church,
>> but you're only confirming that the church is without morals.
>
>I do not think I am defending.
>I am merely explaining why certain actions were not taken.
>If defending means I am calling the bishops incompetent, so be it.
>The Church had morals.
left?
>> Really, who needs to figure out what to do with a child molester?
>
>Ask the parents of the victim.
>Did they want the problem to go away?
>Did they want the perp punished?
>Ask them.
>> You MAKE THEM STOP and to try to make amends. You don't whisk them
>> away form accusers and let them set up shop in another community.
>
>No one was whisked away.
>> It's not hard to figure out. That bishops wouldn't know what to do
>> just shows that the church does not understand morality.
>
>They know it better than you, rabo.
>They don't condemn you for what yer mama did to you.
immoral asshole.
Ray Fischer
Mar 24, 2012, 4:00:57 PM3/24/12
to
Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote ..
>> Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>
>>>Of course I admit that some evil fag priests abused their position
>>
>> See the malicious bigot try to shift the blame onto innocent people.
>
>If the fag priest didn't abuse the child, who did?
So you're saying that all "fag priests" molest children.
>"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote ..
>> Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>
>>>Of course I admit that some evil fag priests abused their position
>>
>> See the malicious bigot try to shift the blame onto innocent people.
>
>If the fag priest didn't abuse the child, who did?
You'd have made a good little nazi.
Ray Fischer
Mar 24, 2012, 4:01:48 PM3/24/12
to
to criticize his defense of child molesters.
Free Lunch
Mar 24, 2012, 4:14:36 PM3/24/12
to
On 24 Mar 2012 18:43:27 GMT, in alt.atheism
rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in
<4f6e15cf$0$11988$742e...@news.sonic.net>:
explaining how the bishops have betrayed the efforts of the Second
Vatican Council while the members took to it with gusto and now have to
ignore the bishops because they are no longer trustworthy leaders
rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in
<4f6e15cf$0$11988$742e...@news.sonic.net>:
>Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>"Free Lunch" <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote
>
>>> It is about the coverup
>>> indulged in by bishops worldwide when they discovered that they had
>>> rapist priests. The coverup shows us that the bishops are immoral and
>>> corrupt, that the entire hierarchy is untrustworthy.
>>
>>I might agree, except....
>>I believe the coverup really shows a bunch of incompetent
>>old men who were clueless about how to handle a problem
>>beyond their comprehension.
>
>You think that you're defending the actions of the catholic church,
>but you're only confirming that the church is without morals.
It was interesting hearing Andrew Sullivan on Maher last night
>>"Free Lunch" <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote
>
>>> It is about the coverup
>>> indulged in by bishops worldwide when they discovered that they had
>>> rapist priests. The coverup shows us that the bishops are immoral and
>>> corrupt, that the entire hierarchy is untrustworthy.
>>
>>I might agree, except....
>>I believe the coverup really shows a bunch of incompetent
>>old men who were clueless about how to handle a problem
>>beyond their comprehension.
>
>You think that you're defending the actions of the catholic church,
>but you're only confirming that the church is without morals.
explaining how the bishops have betrayed the efforts of the Second
Vatican Council while the members took to it with gusto and now have to
ignore the bishops because they are no longer trustworthy leaders
• R. L. Measures.
Mar 24, 2012, 5:08:34 PM3/24/12
to
teenage girls. As I see it, girls between the ages of 13 and 17 are too
often Lolitaesque sexual predators. A girl who used to work for me doing
mail orders said that she had done 17 boys by her 15th birthday. It was
like she was keeping score Ray.
Message has been deleted
Patrick
Mar 25, 2012, 8:25:01 AM3/25/12
to
"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4f6e282c$0$12005$742e...@news.sonic.net...
> Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote in message
>>news:4f6e168a$0$11988$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>>> Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>>>"Attila" <<proc...@here.now> wrote
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect the only way I could get in would be to lie a lot. Unless
>>>>> there are no entrance requirements? I wouldn't know since I have
>>>>> never even come close to joining any superstition.
>>>>
>>>>That is exactly how your buddies joined the church.
>>>
>>> See Ratprick screech his lies and hate rather than repent for his
>>> sins.
>>
>>Your buddies molesting children are not my fault.
>
> See the evil bigot sling slanders at everybody who dares
> to criticize his defense of child molesters.
I have never defended you.
>>"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote in message
>>news:4f6e168a$0$11988$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>>> Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>>>"Attila" <<proc...@here.now> wrote
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect the only way I could get in would be to lie a lot. Unless
>>>>> there are no entrance requirements? I wouldn't know since I have
>>>>> never even come close to joining any superstition.
>>>>
>>>>That is exactly how your buddies joined the church.
>>>
>>> See Ratprick screech his lies and hate rather than repent for his
>>> sins.
>>
>>Your buddies molesting children are not my fault.
>
> See the evil bigot sling slanders at everybody who dares
> to criticize his defense of child molesters.
Patrick
Mar 25, 2012, 8:28:43 AM3/25/12
to
"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4f6e27c2$0$12005$742e...@news.sonic.net...
> Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote
>>> Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>>>"Free Lunch" <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote
>>>
>>>>> It is about the coverup
>>>>> indulged in by bishops worldwide when they discovered that they had
>>>>> rapist priests. The coverup shows us that the bishops are immoral and
>>>>> corrupt, that the entire hierarchy is untrustworthy.
>>>>
>>>>I might agree, except....
>>>>I believe the coverup really shows a bunch of incompetent
>>>>old men who were clueless about how to handle a problem
>>>>beyond their comprehension.
>>>
>>> You think that you're defending the actions of the catholic church,
>>> but you're only confirming that the church is without morals.
>>
>>I do not think I am defending.
>
> It is obvious that you are.
It is obvious you are stupid.
>>"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote
>>> Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>>>"Free Lunch" <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote
>>>
>>>>> It is about the coverup
>>>>> indulged in by bishops worldwide when they discovered that they had
>>>>> rapist priests. The coverup shows us that the bishops are immoral and
>>>>> corrupt, that the entire hierarchy is untrustworthy.
>>>>
>>>>I might agree, except....
>>>>I believe the coverup really shows a bunch of incompetent
>>>>old men who were clueless about how to handle a problem
>>>>beyond their comprehension.
>>>
>>> You think that you're defending the actions of the catholic church,
>>> but you're only confirming that the church is without morals.
>>
>>I do not think I am defending.
>
> It is obvious that you are.
>>I am merely explaining why certain actions were not taken.
>
> Lack of moral understanding.
That is why you were never invited to join middle management.
>>If defending means I am calling the bishops incompetent, so be it.
>>The Church had morals.
>
> If the people of the church don't understanding morals then what's
> left?
Why do you expect others to follow your sick principles?
>>> Really, who needs to figure out what to do with a child molester?
>>
>>Ask the parents of the victim.
>
> Why?
>>Did they want the problem to go away?
>>Did they want the perp punished?
>>Ask them.
>
> Now you're again trying to shift blame onto the victims.
further child abuse by the sick perp. Figure it out.
Patrick
Mar 25, 2012, 8:29:45 AM3/25/12
to
"Free Lunch" <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote
He and Keith Oberman and Rachel Madow have lived long past
their prime.
> It was interesting hearing Andrew Sullivan on Maher last night
Maher is a total ass hole.
He and Keith Oberman and Rachel Madow have lived long past
their prime.
Patrick
Mar 25, 2012, 8:30:59 AM3/25/12
to
news:4f6e27f9$0$12005$742e...@news.sonic.net...
I am sure there are a few homosexual priests that are moral.
But, when they harm a child, they have transformed into a fag.
Any more questions?
> Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote ..
>>> Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>Of course I admit that some evil fag priests abused their position
>>>
>>> See the malicious bigot try to shift the blame onto innocent people.
>>
>>If the fag priest didn't abuse the child, who did?
>
> So you're saying that all "fag priests" molest children.
> You'd have made a good little nazi.
Yes.
>>"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote ..
>>> Patrick <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>Of course I admit that some evil fag priests abused their position
>>>
>>> See the malicious bigot try to shift the blame onto innocent people.
>>
>>If the fag priest didn't abuse the child, who did?
>
> So you're saying that all "fag priests" molest children.
> You'd have made a good little nazi.
I am sure there are a few homosexual priests that are moral.
But, when they harm a child, they have transformed into a fag.
Any more questions?
Alan Ferris
Mar 25, 2012, 8:41:20 AM3/25/12
to
On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 08:28:43 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
wrote:
>> Lack of moral understanding.
>
>Simple generalization.
>That is why you were never invited to join middle management.
Poor Barker never made it above the bottom of middle management so
thinks it is some kind of achievement.
wrote:
>> Lack of moral understanding.
>
>Simple generalization.
>That is why you were never invited to join middle management.
thinks it is some kind of achievement.
Alan Ferris
Mar 25, 2012, 8:42:19 AM3/25/12
to
On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 08:25:01 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
wrote:
>>>Your buddies molesting children are not my fault.
>>
>> See the evil bigot sling slanders at everybody who dares
>> to criticize his defense of child molesters.
>
>I have never defended victims.
"***YOU***, on the other hand, *claim* to be a catholic. Therefore,
is is morally required that you *act* like one. You are supposed to
be a model of charity, patience, peace, hope, wisdom, and love.
You are doing none of this in your posts here."
Fr. Robert Dye to Patrick Barker
wrote:
>>>Your buddies molesting children are not my fault.
>>
>> See the evil bigot sling slanders at everybody who dares
>> to criticize his defense of child molesters.
>
"***YOU***, on the other hand, *claim* to be a catholic. Therefore,
is is morally required that you *act* like one. You are supposed to
be a model of charity, patience, peace, hope, wisdom, and love.
You are doing none of this in your posts here."
Paul Duca
Mar 25, 2012, 9:17:50 AM3/25/12
to
On Mar 25, 8:30 am, "Patrick" <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
> "Ray Fischer" <rfisc...@sonic.net> wrote in message
>
> news:4f6e27f9$0$12005$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>
> > Patrick <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
> >>"Ray Fischer" <rfisc...@sonic.net> wrote ..
slander that every homosexual wants to engage in sex with children...
Paul
> "Ray Fischer" <rfisc...@sonic.net> wrote in message
>
> news:4f6e27f9$0$12005$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>
> > Patrick <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
> >>"Ray Fischer" <rfisc...@sonic.net> wrote ..
> >>> Patrick <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>Of course I admit that some evil fag priests abused their position
>
> >>> See the malicious bigot try to shift the blame onto innocent people.
>
> >>If the fag priest didn't abuse the child, who did?
>
> > So you're saying that all "fag priests" molest children.
> > You'd have made a good little nazi.
>
> Yes.
> I am sure there are a few homosexual priests that are moral.
> But, when they harm a child, they have transformed into a fag.
> Any more questions?
Why do you expect them to harm a child? You accept the brain-dead
>
> >>>>Of course I admit that some evil fag priests abused their position
>
> >>> See the malicious bigot try to shift the blame onto innocent people.
>
> >>If the fag priest didn't abuse the child, who did?
>
> > So you're saying that all "fag priests" molest children.
> > You'd have made a good little nazi.
>
> Yes.
> I am sure there are a few homosexual priests that are moral.
> But, when they harm a child, they have transformed into a fag.
> Any more questions?
slander that every homosexual wants to engage in sex with children...
Paul
Free Lunch
Mar 25, 2012, 11:56:47 AM3/25/12
to
On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 08:29:45 -0400, in alt.atheism
"Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote in
<O72dnY7U8bYskvLS...@posted.localnet>:
I was referring to Andrew Sullivan, a Roman Catholic, who had harsh
words for the bishops and their betrayal of Vatican II. Why do you
attack people who had nothing to do with this comment?
"Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote in
<O72dnY7U8bYskvLS...@posted.localnet>:
words for the bishops and their betrayal of Vatican II. Why do you
attack people who had nothing to do with this comment?
Mike Painter
Mar 25, 2012, 12:45:44 PM3/25/12
to
On 3/25/2012 5:28 AM, Patrick wrote:
>
>
>>>> Really, who needs to figure out what to do with a child molester?
>>>
>>> Ask the parents of the victim.
>>
>> Why?
>
> Because they did not notify the police.
>
>
>>> Did they want the problem to go away?
>>> Did they want the perp punished?
>>> Ask them.
>>
>> Now you're again trying to shift blame onto the victims.
>
> The parents of the first victim could have prevented any
> further child abuse by the sick perp. Figure it out.
>
>
Chances are a lot of them went to their priests and got conned, then
>
>
>>>> Really, who needs to figure out what to do with a child molester?
>>>
>>> Ask the parents of the victim.
>>
>> Why?
>
> Because they did not notify the police.
>
>
>>> Did they want the problem to go away?
>>> Did they want the perp punished?
>>> Ask them.
>>
>> Now you're again trying to shift blame onto the victims.
>
> The parents of the first victim could have prevented any
> further child abuse by the sick perp. Figure it out.
>
>
stopped believing the kids.
This pattern is very common among battered women. One of the most asked
questions when a woman tells her mom her husband beat her is "What did
you do to deserve it?"
"Nicest guy on earth."
"Give you the shirt off his back."
"Kind, generous and, willing to help anybody."
Those phrases describe a vast majority of men who beat their family.
Mike Painter
Mar 25, 2012, 12:48:37 PM3/25/12
to
protestants is that they admit it.
Patrick
Mar 25, 2012, 2:47:25 PM3/25/12
to
"Mike Painter" <md.pa...@sbcglobal.net> wrote .
> This pattern is very common among battered women. One of the most asked
> questions when a woman tells her mom her husband beat her is "What did you
> do to deserve it?"
No child deserves abuse..... no matter what.
> "Nicest guy on earth."
> "Give you the shirt off his back."
> "Kind, generous and, willing to help anybody."
> Those phrases describe a vast majority of men who beat their family.
You have no problem demanding the church face their responsibilities.
Yet, you defend wife abusers?
> On 3/25/2012 5:28 AM, Patrick wrote:
>>
>>>>> Really, who needs to figure out what to do with a child molester?
>>>>
>>>> Ask the parents of the victim.
>>>
>>> Why?
>>
>> Because they did not notify the police.
>>
>>>> Did they want the problem to go away?
>>>> Did they want the perp punished?
>>>> Ask them.
>>>
>>> Now you're again trying to shift blame onto the victims.
>>
>> The parents of the first victim could have prevented any
>> further child abuse by the sick perp. Figure it out.
>>
>>
>
> Chances are a lot of them went to their priests and got conned, then
> stopped believing the kids.
Then, shame on them.....
>>
>>>>> Really, who needs to figure out what to do with a child molester?
>>>>
>>>> Ask the parents of the victim.
>>>
>>> Why?
>>
>> Because they did not notify the police.
>>
>>>> Did they want the problem to go away?
>>>> Did they want the perp punished?
>>>> Ask them.
>>>
>>> Now you're again trying to shift blame onto the victims.
>>
>> The parents of the first victim could have prevented any
>> further child abuse by the sick perp. Figure it out.
>>
>>
>
> Chances are a lot of them went to their priests and got conned, then
> stopped believing the kids.
> This pattern is very common among battered women. One of the most asked
> questions when a woman tells her mom her husband beat her is "What did you
> do to deserve it?"
> "Nicest guy on earth."
> "Give you the shirt off his back."
> "Kind, generous and, willing to help anybody."
> Those phrases describe a vast majority of men who beat their family.
Yet, you defend wife abusers?
It is loading more messages.
0 new messages