Catholicism at crossroads. [URL]

[W.T.S.]

http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn

The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?

[duke]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>
>http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>
>The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?

Forever the same. God spoke.

The dukester, American - American

********************************************
Repeal Obama
You simply can't fix stupid.
********************************************

[MarkA]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 06:49:52 -0600, duke wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>>http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>>
>>The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
>
> Forever the same. God spoke.
>

Not much of a student of history, are you, Duke?

--
MarkA
Keeper of Things Put There Only Just The Night Before
About eight o'clock

[MarkA]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, W.T.S. wrote:

>
> http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>
> The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?

Read Dan Simmons' sci-fi novel, "Hyperion", for an interesting take on the
future of the RCC.

[W.T.S.]

In article <5r84i81f0r6ea97im...@4ax.com>, duckgumbo32
@cox.net says...

>
> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
> >
> >The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
>
> Forever the same. God spoke.

Then why all the changes over 2,000 years?
>

Abortion and sterilization, they save the lives, health and futures of
women and men alike!
>
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/print/14481
>
http://www.jennyjerrome.org/
>
http://tinyurl.com/a887er9
>
http://tinyurl.com/c4thugl
>
http://tinyurl.com/3j3fkch
>
http://www.egalitarian.biz/Plan-B--Remedy-of-a-Lifetime.html
>
http://www.thelizlibrary.org/liz/004.htm
>
Breed like rabbits, live like pigs, die like rats!
>
Modern Christian: Someone who can take time out from
complaining about "welfare mothers popping out babies we
have to feed" to complain about welfare mothers getting
abortions that PREVENT more babies to be raised at public
expense.
>
http://www.imnotsorry.net
>
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17gbnyv0yzhevjpg/original.jpg
>
http://tinyurl.com/7q2ft38
>
http://tinyurl.com/7hk9gk8
>
http://tinyurl.com/ybmwsk4
>
http://tinyurl.com/ayk7czf
>
http://tinyurl.com/43hp62x

[Patrick]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:11:02 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>In article <5r84i81f0r6ea97im...@4ax.com>, duckgumbo32
>@cox.net says...
>>
>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>> >
>> >The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
>>
>> Forever the same. God spoke.
>Then why all the changes over 2,000 years?

Inventions, like the Gutenburg printing press.
Like electricity.

[W.T.S.]

In article <2df4i8pu8kg95ddfn...@4ax.com>, pbarker001
@woh.rr.com says...

Photography, radio, TV, computers, _record_keeping_ (especially
historical records), mass education, and a host of other developments
that make changing and saying, "It's always been that way" a real
problem! Some of the most notable ways of the RCC took place well after
it was "founded".
_What_ does an organization do, not _how_ it does what it does is always
a source of confusion.

[Patrick]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:39:43 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>

wrote:

>In article <2df4i8pu8kg95ddfn...@4ax.com>, pbarker001
>@woh.rr.com says...
>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:11:02 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <5r84i81f0r6ea97im...@4ax.com>, duckgumbo32
>> >@cox.net says...
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>> >> >
>> >> >The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
>> >>
>> >> Forever the same. God spoke.
>> >Then why all the changes over 2,000 years?
>>
>> Inventions, like the Gutenburg printing press.
>> Like electricity.
>Photography, radio, TV, computers, _record_keeping_ (especially
>historical records), mass education, and a host of other developments
>that make changing and saying, "It's always been that way" a real
>problem! Some of the most notable ways of the RCC took place well after
>it was "founded".
>_What_ does an organization do, not _how_ it does what it does is always
>a source of confusion.

The mission of the Catholic Church is the same.
I am not confused by this simple concept.
Why are you?

[W.T.S.]

In article <8qm4i8dqf4ssa62h1...@4ax.com>, pbarker001

As one _small_ example, priest weren't always required to be single and
sex free. Abortion wasn't always condemned. People were burned at the
stake for "witchcraft". Something about the "eternal" Church isn't
eternal, but rather variable.

[duke]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:11:43 -0500, MarkA <nob...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:

>On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 06:49:52 -0600, duke wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>>>
>>>The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
>>
>> Forever the same. God spoke.

>Not much of a student of history, are you, Duke?

Yes, I am. God promised his Church, the RCC, would never fall. That's why I
said it.

[W.T.S.]

In article <ulu4i8talt6rqvuqm...@4ax.com>, duckgumbo32
@cox.net says...

> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:11:43 -0500, MarkA <nob...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 06:49:52 -0600, duke wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>>http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
> >>>
> >>>The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
> >>
> >> Forever the same. God spoke.
>
> >Not much of a student of history, are you, Duke?
>
> Yes, I am. God promised his Church, the RCC, would never fall. That's why I
> said it.

Oh, the RCC will always be here, "duke". But, as time marches on, as
the people of the world become more educated and informed, the power and
influence of the RCC will slowly be reduced. People will recognize the
RCC as just another wealthy cult, just another affliction to be treated
by Doctors, and just another scourge on the world. Go back and check
the history of the Church year by year for the past 2,000 years, you'll
get a good idea of what the future holds. And, if there's a global
famine caused by excess population (which the RCC did so much to
encourage), or some other population driven disaster, _then_ we may well
see some movement to marginalize the Church, like the crazy uncle we
keep in the attic or some such place.
>
> The pukester, CatholiKKK Stool.
>
> ********************************************
> Renounce Catholicism!

> You simply can't fix stupid.
> ********************************************
>

[Patrick]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:59:43 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>

Although St peter was married, once he started to follow Christ, he
never returned back to his wife. He was busy.
Priestly celibacy is not an unchangeable dogma but a disciplinary
rule. The fact that Peter was married is no more contrary to the
Catholic faith than the fact that the pastor of the nearest Maronite
Catholic church is married. Although most people are at some point in
their lives called to the married state, the vocation of celibacy is
explicitly advocated-as well as practiced-by both Jesus and Paul. Paul
actually endorses celibacy for those capable of it: "To the unmarried
and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I
am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For
it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion" (7:8-9).
Paul even goes on to make a case for preferring celibacy to marriage:
"Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage. . . those who marry
will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. . . . The
unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please
the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to
please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried
woman or girl is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to be holy
in body and spirit; but the married woman is anxious about worldly
affairs, how to please her husband" (7:27-34).

> Abortion wasn't always condemned.

Thou shalt not murder.
This has been a commanment since Moses.
However, there is confusion - and has been forever - about when a
human life is considered to be a human life. Pro-choicers will say
that personhood is not a clear concept. There is not universal
agreement on it. Different philosophers, scientists, religionists,
moralists, mothers, and observers define it differently. It is a
matter of opinion where the dividing line between persons and
non-persons should be located. But what is a matter of opinion should
not be decided or enforced by law. Law should express social
consensus, and there is no consensus in our society about personhood's
beginning or, consequently, about abortion. One opinion should not be
forced on all. Pro-choice is not pro-abortion but, precisely,
pro-choice.

> People were burned at the >stake for "witchcraft". Something about the "eternal" Church isn't
>eternal, but rather variable.

Some people were burned - by other people.
The church never sanctioned murder.
the Catholic Church did not not burn witches. There were women accused
of sorcery that did come before the various inquisitions. But, capital
punishment was the realm of the civil authorities, not the Church.
And, overall it was the Protestant sects who hunted and killed
supposed-witches on a widespread scale.

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <i755i8lsrb5b5fb99...@4ax.com>,

Deadbeat dad.

Figures.

--
JD

"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden

[Andrew W]

"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ulu4i8talt6rqvuqm...@4ax.com

> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:11:43 -0500, MarkA <nob...@nowhere.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 06:49:52 -0600, duke wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>>>>
>>>> The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
>>>
>>> Forever the same. God spoke.
>

Forever lame. God never spoke (except in people's superstitious
imaginations and wild dreams/visions).

>
>> Not much of a student of history, are you, Duke?
>
> Yes, I am. God promised his Church, the RCC, would never fall.
> That's why I said it.
>

It was said that the Kingdom of heaven world never fall, not your church.
Why are you so dumb?


--
Religions breed hypocrisy, ignorance and self-righteousness.

[Andrew W]

"W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.2b8bf2714...@news.west.earthlink.net

> In article <5r84i81f0r6ea97im...@4ax.com>, duckgumbo32
> @cox.net says...
>>
>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>>>
>>> The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
>>
>> Forever the same. God spoke.
> Then why all the changes over 2,000 years?
>>
>

He obviously forgot about the Reformation.

[Andrew W]

"Patrick" <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8qm4i8dqf4ssa62h1...@4ax.com

What is its mission exactly?

[Andrew W]

"Patrick" <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote in message

news:i755i8lsrb5b5fb99...@4ax.com

Abortion has nothing to do with murder.
Murder is aggravated killing.
Name one common case of abortion that was called a murder.

>
> However, there is confusion - and has been forever - about when a
> human life is considered to be a human life. Pro-choicers will say
> that personhood is not a clear concept. There is not universal
> agreement on it. Different philosophers, scientists, religionists,
> moralists, mothers, and observers define it differently. It is a
> matter of opinion where the dividing line between persons and
> non-persons should be located. But what is a matter of opinion should
> not be decided or enforced by law. Law should express social
> consensus, and there is no consensus in our society about personhood's
> beginning or, consequently, about abortion. One opinion should not be
> forced on all. Pro-choice is not pro-abortion but, precisely,
> pro-choice.
>
>
>> People were burned at the >stake for "witchcraft". Something about
>> the "eternal" Church isn't eternal, but rather variable.
>
> Some people were burned - by other people.
> The church never sanctioned murder.
>

Bullcrap.
Read your history.

>
> the Catholic Church did not not burn witches.
>

Bullcrap.
Read your history.

>
There were women accused
> of sorcery that did come before the various inquisitions. But, capital
> punishment was the realm of the civil authorities, not the Church.
>

In a theocracy the church controls the civil authorities.

>
> And, overall it was the Protestant sects who hunted and killed
> supposed-witches on a widespread scale.
>

That came much later in Salem.

[Brian E. Clark]

In article <i755i8lsrb5b5fb99...@4ax.com>,
pbark...@woh.rr.com says...

> Although St peter was married, once he started to follow Christ, he
> never returned back to his wife.

It's said that he denied his alimony obligations three
times.

--
-----------
Brian E. Clark

[Brian E. Clark]

In article <kfue04$hd3$1...@dont-email.me>,
remove_...@optusnet.com.au says...

> > The mission of the Catholic Church is the same.
> > I am not confused by this simple concept.
> > Why are you?
> >
>
> What is its mission exactly?

It's very Basic:

10. Declare Function increase(Double)
20. Dim ChurchPower as Double
30. Dim ChurchWealth as Double
40. ' Church mission
50 increase(ChurchPower)
60 increase(ChurchWealth)
70 Goto 50

[Silen...@hotmail.com]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:02:53 -0600, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:11:43 -0500, MarkA <nob...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 06:49:52 -0600, duke wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>>>>
>>>>The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
>>>
>>> Forever the same. God spoke.
>
>>Not much of a student of history, are you, Duke?
>
>Yes, I am. God promised his Church, the RCC, would never fall. That's why I
>said it.

He did?

I don't recall God making any such promise anywhere in the Bible.

You just made that shit up, Dook.

What is it with you Catholics and making shit up?

Heh heh...

Lying racist rightard socialists...

Batshit crazy and dogshit stupid, every single last one of you.

[Patrick]

On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:46:53 +1100, "Andrew W"

>>
>> Thou shalt not murder.
>> This has been a commanment since Moses.
>>
>
>Abortion has nothing to do with murder.
>Murder is aggravated killing.
>Name one common case of abortion that was called a murder.

Two Maryland abortion doctors face murder charges
By the CNN Wire Staff
updated 7:14 PM EST, Fri December 30, 2011
http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/30/justice/maryland-abortion-doctors-murder

>> However, there is confusion - and has been forever - about when a
>> human life is considered to be a human life. Pro-choicers will say
>> that personhood is not a clear concept. There is not universal
>> agreement on it. Different philosophers, scientists, religionists,
>> moralists, mothers, and observers define it differently. It is a
>> matter of opinion where the dividing line between persons and
>> non-persons should be located. But what is a matter of opinion should
>> not be decided or enforced by law. Law should express social
>> consensus, and there is no consensus in our society about personhood's
>> beginning or, consequently, about abortion. One opinion should not be
>> forced on all. Pro-choice is not pro-abortion but, precisely,
>> pro-choice.
>>
>>
>>> People were burned at the >stake for "witchcraft". Something about
>>> the "eternal" Church isn't eternal, but rather variable.
>>
>> Some people were burned - by other people.
>> The church never sanctioned murder.
>>
>
>Bullcrap.
>Read your history.

I did.
Read yours.

>In a theocracy the church controls the civil authorities.

You mean.... like Iran?

>> And, overall it was the Protestant sects who hunted and killed
>> supposed-witches on a widespread scale.
>>
>
>That came much later in Salem.

It happened much earlier in Europe.

[Patrick]

Mission of the Catholic Church

The Catholic Church's mission is to continue the work of Jesus Christ.

The source of the Church's mission is the conviction that Christ is
risen and fully alive and present to the community of believing
Christians. Christ's words in John 20: "As the Father has sent me so
I send you� Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are
forgiven them and whose sins you retain are retained."
The root of the word "mission" means being "sent," and the Church is
"sent into the world to continue the works of Jesus Christ." This
includes works such as preaching, teaching, healing, and acts of
charity and justice. The celebration of Christ "in word and
sacrament" is basic to this mission.

[Patrick]

On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:36:43 +1100, "Andrew W"
<remove_...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

>"W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:MPG.2b8bf2714...@news.west.earthlink.net
>> In article <5r84i81f0r6ea97im...@4ax.com>, duckgumbo32
>> @cox.net says...
>>>
>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>>>>
>>>> The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
>>>
>>> Forever the same. God spoke.
>> Then why all the changes over 2,000 years?
>>>
>>
>
>He obviously forgot about the Reformation.

The reformation was when all the loozer groups broke off from the one,
true, holy Church.

[W.T.S.]

In article <8nk5i85s1jvqnmtcc...@4ax.com>, pbarker001
@woh.rr.com says...

Now I know for sure you know nothing of the history of the Catholic
Church!
Hint: The Catholic Church was highly corrupt at that time and refused
to change its ways, and that's just for starts! There's nothing "true"
about Catholicism.

[W.T.S.]

In article <8nk5i85s1jvqnmtcc...@4ax.com>, pbarker001
@woh.rr.com says...

Now I know for sure that you know nothing about this history of the
Catholic Church.
Hint: At the time the RCC was in a high state of corruption and
refusing to clean itself of said corruption. That's just for starts.

[W.T.S.]

In article <tkk5i8dfusdt09rpj...@4ax.com>, pbarker001

Then JC must've been one hell of a sadistic prick, considering the huge
amount of suffering and death the RCC causes, even today.

[MarkA]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:02:53 -0600, duke wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:11:43 -0500, MarkA <nob...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 06:49:52 -0600, duke wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>>>>
>>>>The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
>>>
>>> Forever the same. God spoke.
>
>>Not much of a student of history, are you, Duke?
>
> Yes, I am. God promised his Church, the RCC, would never fall. That's
> why I said it.
>

Right. You also believe the Bible prohibits abortion, even though it
never actually says that.

Keep up the good work, Duke. You do a fabulous job of showing how theists
make up whatever they have to to justify what they already want to believe.

--
MarkA

If you can read this, you can stop reading now.

[MarkA]

The one, true holy Church that had become so corrupt that its own monks
couldn't stand to be associated with it anymore? *That* one, true, holy
Church?

[MarkA]

It's called "Evolution". It happens to every system of information that
gets copied from generation to generation.

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <tkk5i8dfusdt09rpj...@4ax.com>,

What did Jesus have to do with opulent homes, first class travel, and
ridiculously ornate ceremonies?

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <t1k5i81uo853ds82b...@4ax.com>,

Patrick <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote:


> >In a theocracy the church controls the civil authorities.
>
> You mean.... like Iran?

Precisely.

We'll never let you turn the US into a Christian Iran.

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <t1k5i81uo853ds82b...@4ax.com>,
Patrick <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:46:53 +1100, "Andrew W"
> >>
> >> Thou shalt not murder.
> >> This has been a commanment since Moses.
> >>
> >
> >Abortion has nothing to do with murder.
> >Murder is aggravated killing.
> >Name one common case of abortion that was called a murder.
>
> Two Maryland abortion doctors face murder charges
> By the CNN Wire Staff
> updated 7:14 PM EST, Fri December 30, 2011
> http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/30/justice/maryland-abortion-doctors-murder

Oh, darn, you're refuted. The charges were dropped:

<http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/03/steven-brigham-nicola-riley-have-ch
arges-dropped-in-abortion-case-73505.html>

Did you actually think people would accept your story without checking?

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <pan.2013.02.19....@somewhere.invalid>,

MarkA <som...@somewhere.invalid> wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:02:53 -0600, duke wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:11:43 -0500, MarkA <nob...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >>On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 06:49:52 -0600, duke wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
> >>>>
> >>>>The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
> >>>
> >>> Forever the same. God spoke.
> >
> >>Not much of a student of history, are you, Duke?
> >
> > Yes, I am. God promised his Church, the RCC, would never fall. That's
> > why I said it.
> >
>
> Right. You also believe the Bible prohibits abortion, even though it
> never actually says that.

The ONLY mention of it at all is the requirement to make an adulteress
drink an abortifacient to make sure she isn't pregnant.

> Keep up the good work, Duke. You do a fabulous job of showing how theists
> make up whatever they have to to justify what they already want to believe.

The thing is he was brainwashed with this trash and cannot conceive of
anything beyond those lies.

[spam_a...@optusnet.com.au]

"Patrick" wrote in message
news:8nk5i85s1jvqnmtcc...@4ax.com...

I meant to say Vatican II.

Look here for all the changes over the last 2000 years.
http://solochristo.com/theology/Church/cc/cciv.htm
The RCC is proud to claim that its kept up with the times.

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <8s06i818h810cvt89...@4ax.com>,
J <jdyo...@ymail.com> wrote:

> Deflection noted, deflection dismissed

Since I wasn't asked a question, I can't be deflection, now can I.

And I responded directly and very specifically to Patrick's comments.

[Patrick]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:39:52 -0800, Jeanne Douglas
<hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:

>In article <pan.2013.02.19....@somewhere.invalid>,
> MarkA <som...@somewhere.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:02:53 -0600, duke wrote:
>>
>> > On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:11:43 -0500, MarkA <nob...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 06:49:52 -0600, duke wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>> >>>>
>> >>>>The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
>> >>>
>> >>> Forever the same. God spoke.
>> >
>> >>Not much of a student of history, are you, Duke?
>> >
>> > Yes, I am. God promised his Church, the RCC, would never fall. That's
>> > why I said it.
>> >
>>
>> Right. You also believe the Bible prohibits abortion, even though it
>> never actually says that.
>
>The ONLY mention of it at all is the requirement to make an adulteress
>drink an abortifacient to make sure she isn't pregnant.

Where do you come up with this crap?
Jer 1:5: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; and before you
came forth out of the womb I sanctified you."
Exodus 20:13 :Thou shalt not kill."

[Patrick]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:32:24 -0800, Jeanne Douglas
<hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:

>In article <t1k5i81uo853ds82b...@4ax.com>,
> Patrick <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>> >In a theocracy the church controls the civil authorities.
>>
>> You mean.... like Iran?
>
>Precisely.
>We'll never let you turn the US into a Christian Iran.

That has never been the intention.
We believe in separation of church and state.
However, since Christians are also citizens, we have every right to
speak our mind when it comes to new legislation.

[Patrick]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:36:47 -0800, Jeanne Douglas
<hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:

>In article <t1k5i81uo853ds82b...@4ax.com>,
> Patrick <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:46:53 +1100, "Andrew W"
>> >>
>> >> Thou shalt not murder.
>> >> This has been a commanment since Moses.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Abortion has nothing to do with murder.
>> >Murder is aggravated killing.
>> >Name one common case of abortion that was called a murder.
>>
>> Two Maryland abortion doctors face murder charges
>> By the CNN Wire Staff
>> updated 7:14 PM EST, Fri December 30, 2011
>> http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/30/justice/maryland-abortion-doctors-murder
>
>Oh, darn, you're refuted. The charges were dropped:

SO?

Name one common case of abortion that was called a murder.

I provided a case.
Now, you wish to argue?

[Patrick]

"W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Im>, pbarker001>@woh.rr.com says...

>> >>> _What_ does an organization do, not _how_ it does what it does is
>> >>> always a source of confusion.
>> >>
>> >> The mission of the Catholic Church is the same.
>> >> I am not confused by this simple concept.
>> >> Why are you?
>> >
>> >What is its mission exactly?
>>
>> Mission of the Catholic Church
>>
>> The Catholic Church's mission is to continue the work of Jesus Christ.

>Then JC must've been one hell of a sadistic prick, considering the huge
>amount of suffering and death the RCC causes, even today.

<yawn>
jo mama.

[Patrick]

Jeanne Douglas <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:

> Patrick <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote:

>> >>
>> >> The mission of the Catholic Church is the same.
>> >> I am not confused by this simple concept.
>> >> Why are you?
>> >>
>> >
>> >What is its mission exactly?
>>
>> Mission of the Catholic Church
>>
>> The Catholic Church's mission is to continue the work of Jesus Christ.
>>
>> The source of the Church's mission is the conviction that Christ is
>> risen and fully alive and present to the community of believing
>> Christians. Christ's words in John 20: "As the Father has sent me so
>> I send you� Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are
>> forgiven them and whose sins you retain are retained."
>> The root of the word "mission" means being "sent," and the Church is
>> "sent into the world to continue the works of Jesus Christ." This
>> includes works such as preaching, teaching, healing, and acts of
>> charity and justice. The celebration of Christ "in word and
>> sacrament" is basic to this mission.
>
>What did Jesus have to do with opulent homes, first class travel, and
>ridiculously ornate ceremonies?

Nothing.
Why?
What do you have to do with any of these?
Oh, yeah, nuthin.
You and Jesus must have a lot in common then.
Do you wear sandals?

[Patrick]

On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 01:07:42 -0800, Jeanne Douglas

My comments did not mention opulent homes, travel or ceremonies.
Why did all you weak dick followers decide to build such edifices? Why
do you weak dick followers sew such ornate costumes for our priests?
Why do you purchase cars and travel for them? Why did you give them
royal power over countries?
You know why... You want to court them and hope they will share a
smile with you. You are nothing more than a celebrity fan.

[Patrick]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:22:10 -0500, MarkA <som...@somewhere.invalid>

wrote:

>On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 09:42:34 -0500, Patrick wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:11:02 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <5r84i81f0r6ea97im...@4ax.com>, duckgumbo32
>>>@cox.net says...
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>>>> >
>>>> >The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
>>>>
>>>> Forever the same. God spoke.
>>>Then why all the changes over 2,000 years?
>>
>> Inventions, like the Gutenburg printing press. Like electricity.
>
>It's called "Evolution". It happens to every system of information that
>gets copied from generation to generation.

Oh, really? Then why did you (royal 'you') ask: "Then why all the
changes over 2,000 years?"

[duke]

On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:34:59 +1100, "Andrew W" <remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

>> Yes, I am. God promised his Church, the RCC, would never fall.
>> That's why I said it.

>It was said that the Kingdom of heaven world never fall, not your church.
>Why are you so dumb?

Ephesians 3:20-21 (New International Version)
20 Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine,
according to his power that is at work within us, 21 to him be glory in the
church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.

Heeheehee.

[duke]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:52:17 -0500, Silen...@hotmail.com wrote:

>>Yes, I am. God promised his Church, the RCC, would never fall. That's why I
>>said it.

>He did?
>I don't recall God making any such promise anywhere in the Bible.

Ephesians 3:20-21 (New International Version)
20 Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine,
according to his power that is at work within us, 21 to him be glory in the
church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.

Heeheehee.

[W.T.S.]

In article <uis6i8pqg9t6qidm2...@4ax.com>, pbarker001
@woh.rr.com says...

The "bible" does contradict itself at rather regular intervals.

[Patrick]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:16:30 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>In article <8nk5i85s1jvqnmtcc...@4ax.com>, pbarker001
>@woh.rr.com says...
>> On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:36:43 +1100, "Andrew W"
>> <remove_...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> >"W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> >news:MPG.2b8bf2714...@news.west.earthlink.net
>> >> In article <5r84i81f0r6ea97im...@4ax.com>, duckgumbo32
>> >> @cox.net says...
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
>> >>>
>> >>> Forever the same. God spoke.
>> >> Then why all the changes over 2,000 years?
>> >>>
>> >He obviously forgot about the Reformation.
>>
>> The reformation was when all the loozer groups broke off from the one,
>> true, holy Church.
>Now I know for sure you know nothing of the history of the Catholic
>Church!
>Hint: The Catholic Church was highly corrupt at that time and refused
>to change its ways, and that's just for starts! There's nothing "true"
>about Catholicism.

When did the Calvinists, Lutherans, Anglicans, etc. etc... break away
from the Catholic Church? Was it during an industrial revolution?
Or... was it during the Reformation?

The Catholic Church was not corrupt. The many power hungry "people"
holding leadership positions were certainly corrupt.

[Patrick]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:20:22 -0500, MarkA <som...@somewhere.invalid>
wrote:

Kinda like the "American Nuns" who were trying to change church
doctrine and dogma recently, and got their wrists slapped? They are
also invited to leave the church if they can't follow the words of
Jesus and church dogma.

[duke]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:39:57 -0500, MarkA <som...@somewhere.invalid> wrote:

>On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:02:53 -0600, duke wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:11:43 -0500, MarkA <nob...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 06:49:52 -0600, duke wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>>>>>
>>>>>The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
>>>>
>>>> Forever the same. God spoke.
>>
>>>Not much of a student of history, are you, Duke?
>>
>> Yes, I am. God promised his Church, the RCC, would never fall. That's
>> why I said it.
>>
>
>Right. You also believe the Bible prohibits abortion, even though it
>never actually says that.

Commandment #5 - You shall not kill.

Abortion is the most disgusting of all mortal sins - to murder one's own unborn
for one's comfort and convenience.

[W.T.S.]

In article <ous6i8lgi86k250h1...@4ax.com>, pbarker001
@woh.rr.com says...

Yes, like any other citizen. But not to communicate threats to
excommunicate unless you get your way. Normal, decent Americans are
sickened by the activities of Catholics to influence legislation.

[Patrick]

<spam_a...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

>Look here for all the changes over the last 2000 years.
>http://solochristo.com/theology/Church/cc/cciv.htm
>The RCC is proud to claim that its kept up with the times.

Excellent article:
The Roman Catholic Church is very proud of two distinct things: 1)
that it has never changed, and 2) that it has changed very much! I
realize that number 2 seems to contradict number 1, but anyone who has
studied church history even briefly, will be able to grasp what I'm
trying to say.

First, Rome is very emphatic about making clear these unalterable
facts:

A. That she is the original and only church founded by Jesus Christ
upon the earth.

B. That her head, the pope, has the authority handed down from the
"first pope," Simon Peter, through "apostolic succession," (1) to sit
in the place of Jesus as the undisputed leader of all true Christians
on earth.

C. That her traditions and interpretations of scripture are the only
basis for forming the rules and guidelines that Christians everywhere
should live by.

D. And that her dogmas and doctrines, although they can be clarified,
enlarged, or restated for the sake of changing times, can never, ever
be abolished, contradicted, or altered. They are quite literally,
"Canon Law."

[duke]

The poor woe_man is beyond help.

[W.T.S.]

In article <b5t6i8p3ml5lmbu32...@4ax.com>, pbarker001
@woh.rr.com says...

> So what?
> My mama sucks priests dicks for five cents.
Well, that explains it, Patrick.

[duke]

On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:46:53 +1100, "Andrew W" <remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

>Abortion has nothing to do with murder.
>Murder is aggravated killing.
>Name one common case of abortion that was called a murder.

It's no bad that no practitioner will escape the flames of hell.

[duke]

On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:38:30 +1100, "Andrew W" <remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

>"Patrick" <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:8qm4i8dqf4ssa62h1...@4ax.com

>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:39:43 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <2df4i8pu8kg95ddfn...@4ax.com>, pbarker001
>>> @woh.rr.com says...

>>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:11:02 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>

>>>>> In article <5r84i81f0r6ea97im...@4ax.com>,
>>>>> duckgumbo32 @cox.net says...
>>>>>>

>>>>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Forever the same. God spoke.

>>>>> Then why all the changes over 2,000 years?
>>>>

>>>> Inventions, like the Gutenburg printing press.
>>>> Like electricity.

>>> Photography, radio, TV, computers, _record_keeping_ (especially
>>> historical records), mass education, and a host of other developments
>>> that make changing and saying, "It's always been that way" a real
>>> problem! Some of the most notable ways of the RCC took place well
>>> after it was "founded".

>>> _What_ does an organization do, not _how_ it does what it does is
>>> always a source of confusion.
>>
>> The mission of the Catholic Church is the same.
>> I am not confused by this simple concept.
>> Why are you?

>What is its mission exactly?

Baptize and teach all nations what Jesus taught the Apostles.

[duke]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:31:43 -0800, Jeanne Douglas <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com>
wrote:

>In article <tkk5i8dfusdt09rpj...@4ax.com>,
> Patrick <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote:
>

>> Mission of the Catholic Church
>>
>> The Catholic Church's mission is to continue the work of Jesus Christ.
>>

>> The source of the Church's mission is the conviction that Christ is
>> risen and fully alive and present to the community of believing
>> Christians. Christ's words in John 20: "As the Father has sent me so
>> I send you… Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are
>> forgiven them and whose sins you retain are retained."
>> The root of the word "mission" means being "sent," and the Church is
>> "sent into the world to continue the works of Jesus Christ." This
>> includes works such as preaching, teaching, healing, and acts of
>> charity and justice. The celebration of Christ "in word and
>> sacrament" is basic to this mission.

>What did Jesus have to do with opulent homes, first class travel, and
>ridiculously ornate ceremonies?

Typical stupid and unlearned question by jdyke.

[W.T.S.]

In article <apt6i85qdjgq1b1pp...@4ax.com>, pbarker001

In other words, the Church was corrupt, both then and now.

[•RLMeasures]

In article <MPG.2b8c925b2...@news.eternal-september.org>, Brian
E. Clark <brian...@newsgroup.reply.only> wrote:

> In article <kfue04$hd3$1...@dont-email.me>,
> remove_...@optusnet.com.au says...

>
> > > The mission of the Catholic Church is the same.
> > > I am not confused by this simple concept.
> > > Why are you?
> > >
> >
> > What is its mission exactly?
>

> It's very Basic:
>
> 10. Declare Function increase(Double)
> 20. Dim ChurchPower as Double
> 30. Dim ChurchWealth as Double
> 40. ' Church mission
> 50 increase(ChurchPower)
> 60 increase(ChurchWealth)
> 70 Goto 50

АА the key to increasing power and wealth is maximizing human
reproduction. The org accomplishes this by forbidding contraception
that works.

[Patrick]

On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:05:06 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>In article <ous6i8lgi86k250h1...@4ax.com>, pbarker001
>@woh.rr.com says...
>>
>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:32:24 -0800, Jeanne Douglas
>> <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <t1k5i81uo853ds82b...@4ax.com>,
>> > Patrick <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >> >In a theocracy the church controls the civil authorities.
>> >>
>> >> You mean.... like Iran?
>> >
>> >Precisely.
>> >We'll never let you turn the US into a Christian Iran.
>>
>> That has never been the intention.
>> We believe in separation of church and state.
>> However, since Christians are also citizens, we have every right to
>> speak our mind when it comes to new legislation.

>Yes, like any other citizen. But not to communicate threats to
>excommunicate unless you get your way. Normal, decent Americans are
>sickened by the activities of Catholics to influence legislation.

When Pelosi, Biden and Kennedy all proclaim that they are Catholics,
someone MUST point out that they certainly do not follow all of the
beliefs that Catholics believe. If they do not, they should turn in
their membership cards.

[•RLMeasures]

In article <tkk5i8dfusdt09rpj...@4ax.com>, Patrick
<pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:38:30 +1100, "Andrew W"
> <remove_...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> >"Patrick" <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote in message
> >news:8qm4i8dqf4ssa62h1...@4ax.com

> >> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:39:43 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> In article <2df4i8pu8kg95ddfn...@4ax.com>, pbarker001
> >>> @woh.rr.com says...

> >>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:11:02 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> In article <5r84i81f0r6ea97im...@4ax.com>,
> >>>>> duckgumbo32 @cox.net says...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Forever the same. God spoke.
> >>>>> Then why all the changes over 2,000 years?
> >>>>

> >>>> Inventions, like the Gutenburg printing press.
> >>>> Like electricity.
> >>> Photography, radio, TV, computers, _record_keeping_ (especially
> >>> historical records), mass education, and a host of other developments
> >>> that make changing and saying, "It's always been that way" a real
> >>> problem! Some of the most notable ways of the RCC took place well
> >>> after it was "founded".
> >>> _What_ does an organization do, not _how_ it does what it does is
> >>> always a source of confusion.
> >>

> >> The mission of the Catholic Church is the same.
> >> I am not confused by this simple concept.
> >> Why are you?
> >>
> >
> >What is its mission exactly?
>

> Mission of the Catholic Church
>
> The Catholic Church's mission is to continue the work of Jesus Christ.

• The size and the degree of coverup of the altar-boy scandal suggest
otherwise.

Matthew 18:6 (NIV)
łIf anyone causes one of these little ones‹those who believe in me‹to
stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around
their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

[•RLMeasures]

In article <8nk5i85s1jvqnmtcc...@4ax.com>, Patrick
<pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:36:43 +1100, "Andrew W"
> <remove_...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> >"W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >news:MPG.2b8bf2714...@news.west.earthlink.net

> >> In article <5r84i81f0r6ea97im...@4ax.com>, duckgumbo32
> >> @cox.net says...
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
> >>>>
> >>>> The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
> >>>
> >>> Forever the same. God spoke.
> >> Then why all the changes over 2,000 years?
> >>>
> >>
> >

> >He obviously forgot about the Reformation.
>
> The reformation was when all the loozer groups broke off from the one,
> true, holy Church.

• Just before the Reformation the RCC owned 1/3 of all the arable land in
Europe. This was not good. In the end the winners were lay Catholics
since they benefitted most from the needed changes the Reformation brought
while Lutherans were under the influence of their virulently antisemitic,
control-freak, misogynist leader, Martin Luther.

[Dakota]

On 2/19/2013 3:07 AM, Jeanne Douglas wrote:
> In article <8s06i818h810cvt89...@4ax.com>,
> J <jdyo...@ymail.com> wrote:
>

>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:31:43 -0800, Jeanne Douglas

>> <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <tkk5i8dfusdt09rpj...@4ax.com>,
>>> Patrick <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote:

>>>
>>>> On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:38:30 +1100, "Andrew W"
>>>> <remove_...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Patrick" <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:8qm4i8dqf4ssa62h1...@4ax.com
>>>>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:39:43 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In article <2df4i8pu8kg95ddfn...@4ax.com>, pbarker001
>>>>>>> @woh.rr.com says...
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:11:02 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> In article <5r84i81f0r6ea97im...@4ax.com>,
>>>>>>>>> duckgumbo32 @cox.net says...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Forever the same. God spoke.
>>>>>>>>> Then why all the changes over 2,000 years?
>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Inventions, like the Gutenburg printing press.
>>>>>>>> Like electricity.
>>>>>>> Photography, radio, TV, computers, _record_keeping_ (especially
>>>>>>> historical records), mass education, and a host of other developments
>>>>>>> that make changing and saying, "It's always been that way" a real
>>>>>>> problem! Some of the most notable ways of the RCC took place well
>>>>>>> after it was "founded".
>>>>>>> _What_ does an organization do, not _how_ it does what it does is
>>>>>>> always a source of confusion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The mission of the Catholic Church is the same.
>>>>>> I am not confused by this simple concept.
>>>>>> Why are you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What is its mission exactly?
>>>>
>>>> Mission of the Catholic Church
>>>>
>>>> The Catholic Church's mission is to continue the work of Jesus Christ.
>>>>

>>>> The source of the Church's mission is the conviction that Christ is
>>>> risen and fully alive and present to the community of believing
>>>> Christians. Christ's words in John 20: "As the Father has sent me so

>>>> I send you� Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are

>>>> forgiven them and whose sins you retain are retained."
>>>> The root of the word "mission" means being "sent," and the Church is
>>>> "sent into the world to continue the works of Jesus Christ." This
>>>> includes works such as preaching, teaching, healing, and acts of
>>>> charity and justice. The celebration of Christ "in word and
>>>> sacrament" is basic to this mission.
>>>

>>> What did Jesus have to do with opulent homes, first class travel, and
>>> ridiculously ornate ceremonies?
>>

Don't leave out the funny hats. You can't have a Pope without the
funny hats. Red silk slippers too. I can't imagine Jesus wearing
anything on his feet other than red silk slippers. He needed twelve
apostles just to carry his funny hats. The word 'apostle' actually
means 'bearer of funny hats.'

Don't get me started on all the gold and stained glass.

It's also a myth that Jesus spoke Aramaic. The Catholic Church has
known from day one that Jesus spoke only Latin. It's the language
spoken at the Vatican to this day. Pius XII spoke some German to go
with the Latin. He always enjoyed the sound of the words "Heil Hitler"
rolling off his tongues. The current Pope continues that tradition.

One thing the Bible's not clear on is which of the apostles were
pedophiles. At least a couple of them had to be child rapists. Without
them, Jesus couldn't have started the ongoing practice of concealing
such crimes from the civil authorities.

[Mitchell Holman]

Patrick <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote in
news:ous6i8lgi86k250h1...@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:32:24 -0800, Jeanne Douglas
> <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <t1k5i81uo853ds82b...@4ax.com>,
>> Patrick <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> >In a theocracy the church controls the civil authorities.
>>>
>>> You mean.... like Iran?
>>
>>Precisely.
>>We'll never let you turn the US into a Christian Iran.
>
> That has never been the intention.

"I hope I live to see the day when we won't have any public
schools. The churches will have taken them over again and
Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!"
- Jerry Falwell, America Can Be Saved, 1979

> We believe in separation of church and state.

Tell that to the churches demanding federal aid.

> However, since Christians are also citizens, we have every right to
> speak our mind when it comes to new legislation.

For all the good it is doing.



Maryland, Maine, Washington approve gay marriage
Nov 7, 2012
(Reuters) - Voters in Maryland, Maine and Washington
state approved same-sex marriage on Tuesday, marking
the first time marriage rights have been extended to
same-sex couples by popular vote.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/07/us-usa-campaign-gaymarriage-
idUSBRE8A60MG20121107

[W.T.S.]

In article <uvt6i81qrfd9i91co...@4ax.com>, pbarker001
@woh.rr.com says...

The monks were facing burning at the stake.
The nuns should leave the Church, it no longer has anything to offer
anyone. I hope they do have the good sense to leave.

[W.T.S.]

In article <iru6i8h579b92b60h...@4ax.com>, pbarker001

Careful what you wish for. Someday the Church may start finding
membership cards nailed to the front door.

[W.T.S.]

In article <gst6i8lascg5jq32e...@4ax.com>, duckgumbo32
@cox.net says...

>
> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:39:57 -0500, MarkA <som...@somewhere.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:02:53 -0600, duke wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:11:43 -0500, MarkA <nob...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 06:49:52 -0600, duke wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
> >>>>>
> >>>>>The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
> >>>>
> >>>> Forever the same. God spoke.
> >>
> >>>Not much of a student of history, are you, Duke?
> >>
> >> Yes, I am. God promised his Church, the RCC, would never fall. That's
> >> why I said it.
> >>
> >
> >Right. You also believe the Bible prohibits abortion, even though it
> >never actually says that.
>

> Commandment - You shall not kill.

>
> Abortion is the most disgusting of all mortal sins - to murder one's own unborn
> for one's comfort and convenience.

Bull shit. Abortion is normal, decent and wholesome. I know, I helped
a woman have her second abortion last week. Both of us enjoyed it, and
she's happy to have her entire life and future saved.
Why do you and your Church lie so much, "duke"?
P.S. There is no "God". If there was, you'd be pregnant about now,
"duke".
>
> The pukester, CatholiKKK Liar.
> ********************************************
> Renounce Catholicism!

> You simply can't fix stupid.
> ********************************************
>

For the truth about abortion, follow the links below:

[W.T.S.]

In article <l5u6i8te9375l5dn7...@4ax.com>, pbarker001
@woh.rr.com says...

> <spam_a...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> >Look here for all the changes over the last 2000 years.
> >http://solochristo.com/theology/Church/cc/cciv.htm
> >The RCC is proud to claim that its kept up with the times.
>
> Excellent article:
> The Roman Catholic Church is very proud of two distinct things: 1)
> that it has never changed, and 2) that it has changed very much! I
> realize that number 2 seems to contradict number 1, but anyone who has
> studied church history even briefly, will be able to grasp what I'm
> trying to say.
>
> First, Rome is very emphatic about making clear these unalterable
> facts:
>
> A. That she is the original and only church founded by Jesus Christ
> upon the earth.

Bull shit. Jesus was a lie. The Church is a lie founded on a lie.

>
> B. That her head, the pope, has the authority handed down from the
> "first pope," Simon Peter, through "apostolic succession," (1) to sit
> in the place of Jesus as the undisputed leader of all true Christians
> on earth.

Bull shit. The leadership of the Church is self appointed. The Church
has neither legal nor moral authority.

>
> C. That her traditions and interpretations of scripture are the only
> basis for forming the rules and guidelines that Christians everywhere
> should live by.

Pure, lying, bull shit. We the people decide what is correct and
incorrect, and the Church and all it stands for is in total error.

>
> D. And that her dogmas and doctrines, although they can be clarified,
> enlarged, or restated for the sake of changing times, can never, ever
> be abolished, contradicted, or altered. They are quite literally,
> "Canon Law."

Pure, lying, bull shit. It changes for the comfort and convenience of
the self appointed leadership.

[W.T.S.]

In article <t9u6i8ta8bumo34d6...@4ax.com>, duckgumbo32
@cox.net says...

> On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:46:53 +1100, "Andrew W" <remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
> wrote:
>
> >Abortion has nothing to do with murder.
> >Murder is aggravated killing.
> >Name one common case of abortion that was called a murder.
>
> It's no bad that no practitioner will escape the flames of hell.

That won't work anymore, "duke". Dream up another con game.
>
> The pukester, CatholiKKK Con Man.
>
> ********************************************
> Renounce Catholicism!

> You simply can't fix stupid.
> ********************************************
>

For the truth about abortion, follow the links below:
>

[MarkA]

On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:58:50 -0500, Patrick wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:22:10 -0500, MarkA <som...@somewhere.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 09:42:34 -0500, Patrick wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:11:02 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <5r84i81f0r6ea97im...@4ax.com>, duckgumbo32
>>>>@cox.net says...
>>>>>

>>>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>>>>> >
>>>>> >The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
>>>>>
>>>>> Forever the same. God spoke.

>>>>Then why all the changes over 2,000 years?
>>>

>>> Inventions, like the Gutenburg printing press. Like electricity.
>>

>>It's called "Evolution". It happens to every system of information that
>>gets copied from generation to generation.
>
> Oh, really? Then why did you (royal 'you') ask: "Then why all the changes
> over 2,000 years?"

Because dookie made the claim that the RCC was "forever the same".
Clearly, it isn't the same now as it was 2,000 years ago. And, because of
evolution, you wouldn't expect it to be.

Some of us here remain optimistic that people like Duke can still be
educated. There is no evidence that it is working so far, but hope
springs eternal.

--
MarkA
Keeper of Things Put There Only Just The Night Before
About eight o'clock

[W.T.S.]

In article <ucu6i8hldh6fr81o7...@4ax.com>, duckgumbo32

> To maintain the comfort and conveinence of the self appointed
> leadership.
>
> The pukester, CatholiKKK Stool.
> ********************************************
> Renounce Catholicism!

> You simply can't fix stupid.
> ********************************************
>

[MarkA]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:31:43 -0800, Jeanne Douglas wrote:

> In article <tkk5i8dfusdt09rpj...@4ax.com>,
> Patrick <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote:
>

>> Mission of the Catholic Church
>>
>> The Catholic Church's mission is to continue the work of Jesus Christ.
>>
>> The source of the Church's mission is the conviction that Christ is
>> risen and fully alive and present to the community of believing
>> Christians. Christ's words in John 20: "As the Father has sent me so I

>> send you� Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven

>> them and whose sins you retain are retained." The root of the word
>> "mission" means being "sent," and the Church is "sent into the world to
>> continue the works of Jesus Christ." This includes works such as
>> preaching, teaching, healing, and acts of charity and justice. The
>> celebration of Christ "in word and sacrament" is basic to this mission.
>
> What did Jesus have to do with opulent homes, first class travel, and
> ridiculously ornate ceremonies?

It's pretty obvious that for any organization, regardless of its original
mission, the mission gradually evolves toward "maintaining the
organization" as its top priority. I can think of no better example than
the RCC. I suspect that the handful of people who started the RCC, long
ago, would have been horrified at the thought that one of them would rape
children. 2,000 years later, and it's "This would be bad for our image;
let's hide it!"

[MarkA]

On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:04:40 -0600, duke wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:39:57 -0500, MarkA <som...@somewhere.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:02:53 -0600, duke wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:11:43 -0500, MarkA <nob...@nowhere.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 06:49:52 -0600, duke wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
>>>>>
>>>>> Forever the same. God spoke.
>>>
>>>>Not much of a student of history, are you, Duke?
>>>
>>> Yes, I am. God promised his Church, the RCC, would never fall. That's
>>> why I said it.
>>>
>>>
>>Right. You also believe the Bible prohibits abortion, even though it
>>never actually says that.
>
> Commandment #5 - You shall not kill.
>
> Abortion is the most disgusting of all mortal sins - to murder one's own
> unborn for one's comfort and convenience.
>

I wonder how many times the phrase "unborn baby" appears in the Bible?
I'm going to guess......going out on a limb here......ZERO???

[duke]

How many times do you think God said "You shall not kill" appears. More than
one is superfluous.

[duke]

On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:36:43 +1100, "Andrew W" <remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

>"W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:MPG.2b8bf2714...@news.west.earthlink.net

>> In article <5r84i81f0r6ea97im...@4ax.com>, duckgumbo32
>> @cox.net says...
>>>

>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>>>>
>>>> The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?

>>> Forever the same. God spoke.

>> Then why all the changes over 2,000 years?

>He obviously forgot about the Reformation.

There were no changes, just refusals to obey by the reformers.

[Patrick]

MarkA <nob...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:

>I wonder how many times the phrase "unborn baby" appears in the Bible?
>I'm going to guess......going out on a limb here......ZERO???

[Patrick]

On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 08:10:52 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>

Excellent news.
Qualifications for membership are steep.
We don need no stinkin liars cluttering up the aisles.

[Patrick]

On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:49:44 -0600, Mitchell Holman
<nomailverizon.net> wrote:

>Patrick <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote in
>news:ous6i8lgi86k250h1...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:32:24 -0800, Jeanne Douglas
>> <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <t1k5i81uo853ds82b...@4ax.com>,
>>> Patrick <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> >In a theocracy the church controls the civil authorities.
>>>>
>>>> You mean.... like Iran?
>>>
>>>Precisely.
>>>We'll never let you turn the US into a Christian Iran.
>>
>> That has never been the intention.
>
>
> "I hope I live to see the day when we won't have any public
>schools. The churches will have taken them over again and
>Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!"
>- Jerry Falwell, America Can Be Saved, 1979

OMG... has Jerry turned into a Catholic?
Oh, that's right.... he is one of yours, not one of mine.

>> We believe in separation of church and state.

> Tell that to the churches demanding federal aid.

When the state offers aid to charter schools, why can't parochial
schools qualify?

[Patrick]

Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com> wrote:

>It's also a myth that Jesus spoke Aramaic. The Catholic Church has
>known from day one that Jesus spoke only Latin. It's the language
>spoken at the Vatican to this day. Pius XII spoke some German to go
>with the Latin. He always enjoyed the sound of the words "Heil Hitler"
>rolling off his tongues. The current Pope continues that tradition.
>One thing the Bible's not clear on is which of the apostles were
>pedophiles. At least a couple of them had to be child rapists. Without
>them, Jesus couldn't have started the ongoing practice of concealing
>such crimes from the civil authorities.

Wow.
How long have you held these fantasies?
What did your mother do to you to make you so angry?

[Patrick]

MarkA <nob...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:

>It's pretty obvious that for any organization, regardless of its original
>mission, the mission gradually evolves toward "maintaining the
>organization" as its top priority. I can think of no better example than
>the RCC.

OH?
How about the UAW? AFL-CIO?
Postal Service? Civil Service?
Medicare? Medicaid? Welfare?

[Patrick]

�RLMeasures) wrote:

Patrick><pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote:

>> The Catholic Church's mission is to continue the work of Jesus Christ.
>
>� The size and the degree of coverup of the altar-boy scandal suggest
>otherwise.
>
>Matthew 18:6 (NIV)

> �If anyone causes one of these little ones�those who believe in me�to

>stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around
>their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

JOf course I admit that some evil fag priests abused their position
and sexually abused children.
Of course I admit that bishops were dumbfounded as to what
they should do. Since most victims and families wanted to keep
the abuse quiet, the bishops looked for other solutions. They sought
advice from the leading shrinks of the day, and by God, they were
stupid enough to follow that advice. And because of this, the church
has paid out $ 3 Billion to the lawyers of the victims who came
forward
40 years after the fact.

Those bishops sent those offending evil fag priests to treatment
centers were they were "cured." Since the RCC is in the forgiveness
business, not the punishment business, they again made more
mistakes by believing the repentant evil fag priest was sorry for
his sins, and they allowed him to remain in the ministry.
I admit this was a bad decision on the part of the bishops

This is all fact. Of course I admit it.
The evil fag priests were bad. Of course I admit it.
The bishops were stupid and made the wrong choices. I admit that.

The fact is that YOU refuse to admit that perhaps the RCC
made its mistakes, admitted its mistakes, paid for those mistakes,
and has made positive corrective actions to prevent this from
ever happening again. No fag priest is now allowed in the ministry.
As soon as any priest is accused of misconduct, he is immediately
removed from the ministry. The bishops all have marching orders
to cooperate with civil authorities when it comes to this crime.

You don't want to let this go, because you have another agenda
against the RCC. You feel you were wronged by the RCC in some
way - perhaps because they informed you that YOU are totally
responsible for your bad decisions and your actions. You have
some sort of sin that you feel should be accepted by the church.
And you are pissed because the RCC refuses to let you off the hook.
What is your particular sin? Abortion? Divorce? Homosexual acts?
What is it?

Most Catholics were shocked when the crisis first came about.
They were disturbed, wary, and wanted explanations.
There were no good excuses. However, after studying the
problem, most Catholics have just come to realize that the
priests that they held so high on pedestals were merely humans.
And, the bishops were dumbstruck on how to handle the problem.
Most Catholics have now accepted the fact that mistakes were
made, poor decisions, and some hushing up to protect the
victims and accused. The bishops looked for quiet solutions,
and they found out that there aren't any.
Protocols have changed, and those same decisions will
never be made again.
Most Catholics are watching, praying and will remain vigilant.
The outsiders are still trying to raise mobs and start bonfires.

[Patrick]

MarkA <nob...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:58:50 -0500, Patrick wrote:

>>>>>> >The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Forever the same. God spoke.
>>>>>Then why all the changes over 2,000 years?
>>>>
>>>> Inventions, like the Gutenburg printing press. Like electricity.
>>>
>>>It's called "Evolution". It happens to every system of information that
>>>gets copied from generation to generation.
>>
>> Oh, really? Then why did you (royal 'you') ask: "Then why all the changes
>> over 2,000 years?"
>
>Because dookie made the claim that the RCC was "forever the same".
>Clearly, it isn't the same now as it was 2,000 years ago. And, because of
>evolution, you wouldn't expect it to be.

Fair enough.
I believe that Duke was referring to the core beliefs of the RCC:

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

[Patrick]

On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:12:50 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>

jo mama

[Patrick]

On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 08:05:42 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

yeah, yeah, yeah...
Like you have a dog in the fight....

[Patrick]

"W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Bull shit. Jesus was a lie.

jo mama.

[MarkA]

Sorry, I don't know much about the internal politics of the UAW or
AFL-CIO. Government agencies, such as Medicare, etc, are part of the
federal government, which certainly fits the pattern.

Were you objecting to my observation that organizations evolve toward
self-preservation, or that the RCC is a good example? Keep in mind that
the thread is about the evolution of the RCC.

[MarkA]

She probably taught him to take responsibility for his actions. A lesson
the RCC will hopefully learn, a few billion dollars, and hundreds of
destroyed lives, too late.

[Patrick]

MarkA <nob...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:

>>>It's pretty obvious that for any organization, regardless of its original
>>>mission, the mission gradually evolves toward "maintaining the
>>>organization" as its top priority.


>>> I can think of no better example than the RCC.
>>
>> OH?
>> How about the UAW? AFL-CIO?
>> Postal Service? Civil Service?
>> Medicare? Medicaid? Welfare?
>
>Sorry, I don't know much about the internal politics of the UAW or
>AFL-CIO. Government agencies, such as Medicare, etc, are part of the
>federal government, which certainly fits the pattern.
>
>Were you objecting to my observation that organizations evolve toward
>self-preservation, or that the RCC is a good example? Keep in mind that
>the thread is about the evolution of the RCC.

No problems there.
I merely object that you could think of NO BETTER example.
I can think of hundreds of examples...
And.... I agree that all organizations do the same.

[Andrew W]

"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:qbt6i85hftq0m1kfj...@4ax.com

> On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:34:59 +1100, "Andrew W"
> <remove_...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>>> Yes, I am. God promised his Church, the RCC, would never fall.
>>> That's why I said it.
>

>> It was said that the Kingdom of heaven world never fall, not your
>> church. Why are you so dumb?
>
> Ephesians 3:20-21 (New International Version)
> 20 Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or
> imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, 21 to him
> be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all
> generations, for ever and ever! Amen.
>
> Heeheehee.
>

That was just a prayer by a human.


--
Religions breed hypocrisy, ignorance and self-righteousness.

[Andrew W]

"Patrick" <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote in message

news:uis6i8pqg9t6qidm2...@4ax.com
> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:39:52 -0800, Jeanne Douglas
> <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <pan.2013.02.19....@somewhere.invalid>,

>> MarkA <som...@somewhere.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:02:53 -0600, duke wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:11:43 -0500, MarkA <nob...@nowhere.invalid>

>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 06:49:52 -0600, duke wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Forever the same. God spoke.
>>>>

>>>>> Not much of a student of history, are you, Duke?
>>>>

>>>> Yes, I am. God promised his Church, the RCC, would never fall.
>>>> That's why I said it.
>>>>
>>>

>>> Right. You also believe the Bible prohibits abortion, even though
>>> it never actually says that.
>>

>> The ONLY mention of it at all is the requirement to make an
>> adulteress drink an abortifacient to make sure she isn't pregnant.
>
> Where do you come up with this crap?

> Jer 1:5: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; and before you
> came forth out of the womb I sanctified you."
>

That was referring only to the person in question.

>
> Exodus 20:13 :Thou shalt not kill."
>

That refers to people already born.
But then wars would be illegal too, yet they're not.

[Andrew W]

"Patrick" <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote in message

news:t1k5i81uo853ds82b...@4ax.com

> On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:46:53 +1100, "Andrew W"
>>>

>>> Thou shalt not murder.
>>> This has been a commanment since Moses.

>>>
>>
>> Abortion has nothing to do with murder.
>> Murder is aggravated killing.
>> Name one common case of abortion that was called a murder.
>

> Two Maryland abortion doctors face murder charges
> By the CNN Wire Staff
> updated 7:14 PM EST, Fri December 30, 2011
> http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/30/justice/maryland-abortion-doctors-murder
>
>

I know about that one. Its an uncommon case.
So the fact is this sort of thing is extremely rare.

[Andrew W]

"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:t9u6i8ta8bumo34d6...@4ax.com

> On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:46:53 +1100, "Andrew W"
> <remove_...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>> Abortion has nothing to do with murder.
>> Murder is aggravated killing.
>> Name one common case of abortion that was called a murder.
>

> It's no bad that no practitioner will escape the flames of hell.
>

"Flames of hell" doesn't exist.

[Andrew W]

"Patrick" <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote in message

news:tkk5i8dfusdt09rpj...@4ax.com

> On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:38:30 +1100, "Andrew W"
> <remove_...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>> "Patrick" <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote in message

>> news:8qm4i8dqf4ssa62h1...@4ax.com

>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:39:43 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <2df4i8pu8kg95ddfn...@4ax.com>, pbarker001
>>>> @woh.rr.com says...

>>>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:11:02 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <5r84i81f0r6ea97im...@4ax.com>,
>>>>>> duckgumbo32 @cox.net says...
>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S."
>>>>>>> <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Forever the same. God spoke.

>>>>>> Then why all the changes over 2,000 years?
>>>>>

>>>>> Inventions, like the Gutenburg printing press.
>>>>> Like electricity.

>>>> Photography, radio, TV, computers, _record_keeping_ (especially
>>>> historical records), mass education, and a host of other
>>>> developments that make changing and saying, "It's always been that
>>>> way" a real problem! Some of the most notable ways of the RCC
>>>> took place well after it was "founded".
>>>> _What_ does an organization do, not _how_ it does what it does is
>>>> always a source of confusion.
>>>
>>> The mission of the Catholic Church is the same.
>>> I am not confused by this simple concept.
>>> Why are you?
>>>
>>
>> What is its mission exactly?
>
> Mission of the Catholic Church
>

> The Catholic Church's mission is to continue the work of Jesus Christ.
>

It hasn't been doing that.

>
> The source of the Church's mission is the conviction that Christ is
> risen and fully alive and present to the community of believing
> Christians. Christ's words in John 20: "As the Father has sent me so

> I send you. Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are

> forgiven them and whose sins you retain are retained."
> The root of the word "mission" means being "sent," and the Church is
> "sent into the world to continue the works of Jesus Christ." This
> includes works such as preaching, teaching, healing, and acts of
> charity and justice. The celebration of Christ "in word and
> sacrament" is basic to this mission.

[Andrew W]

"Patrick" <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote in message

news:l5u6i8te9375l5dn7...@4ax.com
> <spam_a...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>> Look here for all the changes over the last 2000 years.
>> http://solochristo.com/theology/Church/cc/cciv.htm
>> The RCC is proud to claim that its kept up with the times.
>
> Excellent article:
> The Roman Catholic Church is very proud of two distinct things: 1)
> that it has never changed, and 2) that it has changed very much! I
> realize that number 2 seems to contradict number 1, but anyone who has
> studied church history even briefly, will be able to grasp what I'm
> trying to say.
>
> First, Rome is very emphatic about making clear these unalterable
> facts:
>
> A. That she is the original and only church founded by Jesus Christ
> upon the earth.
>
> B. That her head, the pope, has the authority handed down from the
> "first pope," Simon Peter, through "apostolic succession," (1) to sit
> in the place of Jesus as the undisputed leader of all true Christians
> on earth.
>
> C. That her traditions and interpretations of scripture are the only
> basis for forming the rules and guidelines that Christians everywhere
> should live by.
>
> D. And that her dogmas and doctrines, although they can be clarified,
> enlarged, or restated for the sake of changing times, can never, ever
> be abolished, contradicted, or altered. They are quite literally,
> "Canon Law."
>

All opinions of the church.

[Dakota]

Patrick must have agreed with my comments about the silly hats and the
apostles who lugged them around.

[Dakota]

Duke's Bible, the Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition, doesn't think
it's a big deal to cause an abortion. It's basically:

Sorry your wife lost the fetus. Here, take a couple of my goats.

Exodus 21:22

If men quarrel, and one strike a woman with child, and she miscarry
indeed, but live herself: he shall be answerable for so much damage as
the woman's husband shall require, and as arbiters shall award.

[Mitchell Holman]

Patrick <pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote in
news:g9h7i8dvid5j7eimv...@4ax.com:

Charter schools do not teach religion as fact.

See the difference?

[MarkA]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:04:24 -0500, Patrick wrote:


>
>
>> Abortion wasn't always condemned.

>
> Thou shalt not murder.
> This has been a commanment since Moses.

Is that the same Moses who sent the sons of Levi to execute 3,000 fellow
tribesmen, immediately after receiving the Commandments? I guess God
didn't explain them very well, eh? It's a good thing YOU know what God
meant!

[MarkA]

On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 08:04:38 -0500, Patrick wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:20:22 -0500, MarkA <som...@somewhere.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:19:08 -0500, Patrick wrote:
>>

>>> On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:36:43 +1100, "Andrew W"
>>> <remove_...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:MPG.2b8bf2714...@news.west.earthlink.net

>>>>> In article <5r84i81f0r6ea97im...@4ax.com>, duckgumbo32
>>>>> @cox.net says...
>>>>>>

>>>>>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 05:31:55 -0600, "W.T.S." <m1...@earthlink.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/bgn5dwn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Catholic Church will always be here, but in what form?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Forever the same. God spoke.

>>>>> Then why all the changes over 2,000 years?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>

>>>>He obviously forgot about the Reformation.
>>>
>>> The reformation was when all the loozer groups broke off from the one,
>>> true, holy Church.
>>
>>The one, true holy Church that had become so corrupt that its own monks
>>couldn't stand to be associated with it anymore? *That* one, true, holy
>>Church?
>
> Kinda like the "American Nuns" who were trying to change church doctrine
> and dogma recently, and got their wrists slapped? They are also invited to
> leave the church if they can't follow the words of Jesus and church dogma.

I haven't heard of those nuns. I only heard about the ones who believe
people should be treated with compassion, the way Jesus did, regardless of
their gender or sexual orientation. I guess I miss a lot from not
watching Fox News.

[MarkA]

Could be, but when talks about the Catholic Church being "forever
the same", it is not at all obvious that he is restricting his comments
to the core beliefs.

[MarkA]

I'm not going to deny that I have a soft spot in my heart for Catholic
bashing on alt.atheism. (Since my wife is Catholic, I have to keep it
low-key at home). There are certainly other examples that are equally
good, as well.