bill clinton
Anonymous
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>I didn't go to Vietnam bceause I thought it was
>WRONG!!!! Why should I DIE for something I didn't
>AGREE with. So I went to Canada.
>
>Clinton should not be condemned for draft dodging
>any more than I should.
>
Makes me proud to be an American. (sarcasm off)
PangK
>From: Anonymous <nob...@base.xs4all.nl>
>Reply-To: dennis...@cna.com
>Message-ID: <6c73603bda067b1f...@base.xs4all.nl>
>Newsgroups: soc.veterans,alt.mens-rights,milw.general
>Pa...@aol.com (PangK) wrote:
<NO! Actually, David Moroe a/k/a/ Dennis Moore actually wrote the following
FORGERY)
>>x-no-archive: yes
Mr. Moore, My military service is something that I an very PROUD of. Unlike
you, I don't have to HIDE mine. I served a msix year tour in the Air Force, and
again UNLIKE your service record, *I* received an *HONORABLE DISCHARGE* with
commendations that rose to the command level.
Now we could speak of YOUR rather ignomineous career in the Marine Corps and
your ejection therefrom for conduct unbecomming a Marine. Conduct that the
whole usenet can see you continuing PUNK!
And which you bring into a veterans forum
and display here as well.
Your behavior on the net has brough the interest of law enforcement
Moore. And you lack the sense to restrain your behavior. You seem determind to
place yourself behind bars.
Webguide
>
> Pa...@aol.com (PangK) wrote:
>
> >x-no-archive: yes
> >
> >I didn't go to Vietnam bceause I thought it was
> >WRONG!!!! Why should I DIE for something I didn't
> >AGREE with. So I went to Canada.
> >
> >Clinton should not be condemned for draft dodging
> >any more than I should.
> >
>
> Makes me proud to be an American. (sarcasm off)
Not accustomed to that kind of honesty, I take it.
Stacy Alexander
*&((&*(&**&(*(&*&((*&(&*(*&*&(*(&(*&&*(&*((&*&(**(&(*&(&*
Charles Robison
country. If you are not willing to fight for this land and our society you
should not benefit from it.
Charlie
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution,
nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states
respectively, or to the people.
10th Amendment
Constitution of United States of America
PangK
>From: Anonymous <nob...@earth.wazoo.com>
>Newsgroups: soc.veterans
>>Now we could speak of YOUR rather ignomineous career in the Marine Corps and
your ejection therefrom for conduct unbecomming a Marine.
>Where's your proof?
Oh David, or should I say DENNIS? I could point to the last time you were
demanding proof and demanded I show your middle name and serial number, and
when I DID
you SCREAMED like a little baby for months!
Made over 1,000 complaints to my ISP about it.
WHined like a little sissy that you are.
Proof? YOUR BEHAVIOR on the net pretty well speaks for the COWARD you are!
We all see you HIDING behind an anonymous remailer. We all see your cowardly
attacks on women on the net. Few people miss your purile posting habits Moore,
you are a DISGRACE to the uniform. But that is something you have heard before,
from the Corps, isn't it David? It is not a new term for you to be told. But it
doesn't sink in, does it Moore?
I have known lots of Marines in my life, David. You are NOTHING like ANY
of them I have ver met. Almost all of them have been stand-up guys. You are
merely a sissy!
PangK
>From: Anonymous <nob...@earth.wazoo.com>
>Newsgroups:
>soc.veterans,alt.mens-rights,milw.general,alt.psychology,fl.general
>It's a matter of public record that Ken fled to Canada during Vietnam, and was
charged as a deserter. However he wasn't caught until twelve years later, when
he was stopped for drunk driving. They gave him a slap on the wrist. Which
incidentally was also a slap in the face to everyone who ever carried a gun.
Moore, it is not had to understand WHY you have HAD to change your first
name from David to Dennis. If I had YOUR record both in and out of the service,
I'd change my name too.
Simeple FACT is that *I* have an HONORABLE DISCHARGE, and back in the days
when you had to EARN it! See when *I* served, (Air Force) you got what you got
as a discharge. You couldn't go back and BEG to have an UPGRADE a year later.
They didn't give upgrades like you got.
I served 4 years active, and 2 years active reserve. HONORABLY! And with
commendatiosn, some of which went to the Command level. UNLIKE your service
record Mr. Moore.
Oh, and about all YOU carried was your dick as you RAN off the battlefield
crying for your MOMMY! Your behavior here speaks for itself Moore,. Hiding
behind an anonymous remailer. Pretty well shows YOUR service record all by
itself. Your BEHAVIOR is all the PROOF folks need!
SHIPFIXR
>Draft dodgers and their entire families should be driven from this
>country. If you are not willing to fight for this land and our society you
>should not benefit from it.
>
much?? Everyone's arms must get tired from waving their flags so hard.
DN
*The* Didaskalos
Limbaugh?
"Charles Robison" <car...@prodigy.net> wrote to and milw.general:
== Draft dodgers and their entire families should be driven from this
== country. If you are not willing to fight for this land and our society you
== should not benefit from it.
==
== Charlie
==
== The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution,
== nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states
== respectively, or to the people.
== 10th Amendment
== Constitution of United States of America
==
==
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Our thought for the day, a lesson from history:
"All members of the SS and police must be in the forefront of
the fight to eliminate homosexuality from the German people."
-- Heinrich Himmler, March 7, 1942 Memorandum.
(Imperial War Museum, London, H/6/165)
Are you a political or religious Conservative?
Remember this: those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
Perry
thedidaskalosTAKEM...@hotmail.com says...
> You mean draft dodgers like Newt Gingrich, Dan Quayle, and Rush
> Limbaugh?
Oh yea, where is your proof. Or maybe your head is so far up your ass you
have seen daylight in decades. All three had valid deferments as did
millions of others. A draft dodger is one who is Drafted and then avoids
it by running off to another country or using deceit to avoid it or by
breaking the law to avoid it. Pervert Bill was a draft dodger not the
three you slandered above.
Dave
Perry wrote in message ...
>In article <3601072...@news.alpha.net>,
>thedidaskalosTAKEM...@hotmail.com says...
>> You mean draft dodgers like Newt Gingrich, Dan Quayle, and Rush
>> Limbaugh?
>
>Oh yea, where is your proof.
>Or maybe your head is so far up your ass you
>have seen daylight in decades.
Let's see who is in the dark.
>All three had valid deferments as did
>millions of others.
All of those who chose universities to avoid the draft are in essence,
"draft dodgers" if we choose to believe your argument. They could have put
their education on hold long enough to serve there country, but they didn't.
Instead, they stayed in their warm dormitories while those without the
financial or educational requirements needed to pursue higher education did
their fighting and dieing for them. It's a mute point as Clinton had a
valid educational deferment.
>A draft dodger is one who is Drafted and then avoids
>it by running off to another country
He didn't "run", he had an educational deferment (just like the millions of
others you referred to) to attent Oxford University as part of his Rhodes
Scholorship.
>or using deceit to avoid it
What deceit?
>or by
>breaking the law to avoid it.
Since the law permits educational deferrments, he broke no law. If he did
break the law, then maybe you can enlighten us with the source of that
accusation.
>Pervert Bill was a draft dodger not the
>three you slandered above.
There was no slander, the author merely posted the facts. If Clinton is a
"draft dodger" because he avoided the draft through education deferments,
then the three who where "slandered" where also "draft dodgers." You can't
have it both ways.
don't spam me .wavefront .com
<blather blather political crap>
This doesn't belong in alt.psychology. Followups set.
--
jeremy wavefront com 1989 Honda VTR250
DoD # (pending) BNASPAM #3 1971 Honda CL350
"I could not move any faster if we were under full scale
attack..." -- Scotty
Dave
>
> Draft dodgers and their entire families should be driven from this
>
Granted, I no fan of anyone who dodged the draft illegally, but exile
their ENTIRE family as well? What if his father is a WWII or Korean War
vet? Because his son emigrated to Canada, Europe, etc., you want to
exile the old man as well? I remember reading about a guy with an
unusual sense of humor. Adolf felt that if you had an ounce of Jewish
blood, that qualified you & your family for a once-in-a-lifetime
experience: loss of property, removal of any rights or dignity, plus(get
this!) an all expense paid cross-country trip in overcrowded, smelly,
unsanitary freight cars(feces, urine & vomit at no extra charge!) to a
camp where you enjoy all the torture, starvation, disease, gassing &
incineration you can handle. Of course I'm being sarcastic, but you get
the point. At least I hope you do.
R. Soyack
>
> Perry wrote in message ...
> >In article <3601072...@news.alpha.net>,
> >thedidaskalosTAKEM...@hotmail.com says...
> >> You mean draft dodgers like Newt Gingrich, Dan Quayle, and Rush
> >> Limbaugh?
> >
> >Oh yea, where is your proof.
> >Or maybe your head is so far up your ass you
> >have seen daylight in decades.
>
> Let's see who is in the dark.
>
> >All three had valid deferments as did
> >millions of others.
>
> All of those who chose universities to avoid the draft are in essence,
> "draft dodgers" if we choose to believe your argument. They could have put
> their education on hold long enough to serve there country, but they didn't.
> Instead, they stayed in their warm dormitories while those without the
> financial or educational requirements needed to pursue higher education did
> their fighting and dieing for them. It's a mute point as Clinton had a
> valid educational deferment.
President Clinton received his draft notice while he was a student. He
avoided the draft by promising to enroll in ROTC. He did not enroll in
ROTC.
>
> >A draft dodger is one who is Drafted and then avoids
> >it by running off to another country
>
> He didn't "run", he had an educational deferment (just like the millions of
> others you referred to) to attent Oxford University as part of his Rhodes
> Scholorship.
And received a draft notice.
>
> >or using deceit to avoid it
>
> What deceit?
Agreeing to enroll in ROTC and then not doing it.
>
> >or by
> >breaking the law to avoid it.
>
> Since the law permits educational deferrments, he broke no law. If he did
> break the law, then maybe you can enlighten us with the source of that
> accusation.
The letters detailing these events were made public about eight years
ago.
>
> >Pervert Bill was a draft dodger not the
> >three you slandered above.
>
> There was no slander, the author merely posted the facts. If Clinton is a
> "draft dodger" because he avoided the draft through education deferments,
> then the three who where "slandered" where also "draft dodgers." You can't
> have it both ways.
You are the one who can't have it both ways. President Clinton did
dodge the draft.
Rich Soyack
don't spam me .wavefront .com
Can we PLEASE keep this out of alt.psych?
And does it have anything to do with Florida? I've removed
alt.psych from the followups.
Perry
>
> Perry wrote in message ...
> >In article <3601072...@news.alpha.net>,
> >thedidaskalosTAKEM...@hotmail.com says...
> >> You mean draft dodgers like Newt Gingrich, Dan Quayle, and Rush
> >> Limbaugh?
> >
> >Oh yea, where is your proof.
> >Or maybe your head is so far up your ass you
> >have seen daylight in decades.
>
> Let's see who is in the dark.
>
> >All three had valid deferments as did
> >millions of others.
>
> All of those who chose universities to avoid the draft are in essence,
> "draft dodgers" if we choose to believe your argument. They could have put
> their education on hold long enough to serve there country, but they didn't.
> Instead, they stayed in their warm dormitories while those without the
> financial or educational requirements needed to pursue higher education did
> their fighting and dieing for them. It's a mute point as Clinton had a
> valid educational deferment.
>
> >it by running off to another country
>
> He didn't "run", he had an educational deferment (just like the millions of
> others you referred to) to attent Oxford University as part of his Rhodes
> Scholorship.
>
>
> What deceit?
>
> >breaking the law to avoid it.
>
> Since the law permits educational deferrments, he broke no law. If he did
> break the law, then maybe you can enlighten us with the source of that
> accusation.
>
> >three you slandered above.
>
> There was no slander, the author merely posted the facts. If Clinton is a
> "draft dodger" because he avoided the draft through education deferments,
> then the three who where "slandered" where also "draft dodgers." You can't
> have it both ways.
>
by most. Pervert Bill was drafted in 1968 then immediately signed on to
the advance ROTC program to gain a deferment. Once he got that deferment
he wrote the famous letter(which is common knowledge) denouncing the
military and the ROTC program along with his opposition to the Vietnam
War. The Col in charge of the ROTC program immediately reported this to
Pervert Bill's draft board and for some reason no action was taken.
Meanwhile that bought him time until that form of draft call up was
changed to the lottery system. He received a very low draft number and
was now safe. The author did not state the facts period but some made up
shit. According to your and his definition of Draft Dodgers then millions
of your neighbours fit into that category. I think they might disagree. A
draft dodger is one who is selected and then sneaks out of it by various
means like pervert Bill. I have the facts unlike you and others who
believe the bull shit from the White House. During the period of 1965 to
73 1,728,344 were drafted of which only 38% served in Vietnam.
25%(648,500) of total US forces in Vietnam were draftees. Draftees
accounted for 30.4% (17,725) of combat deaths in Vietnam. The last man
drafted was on 30 Jun 73. Defend that coward all you want the fact
remains he was a draft dodgers and the others mentioned were not.
Doug
Perry wrote in message ...
>Defend that coward all you want the fact
>remains he was a draft dodgers and the others mentioned were not.
If they dodged the draft, regardless of the methods, they are by definition,
Draft Dodgers.
Muff
--
MUFF
Charles Robison wrote in message
<6tqk4n$q6a$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>...
> Draft dodgers and their entire families should be driven from this
>country. If you are not willing to fight for this land and our society you
>should not benefit from it.
>
>Charlie
>
>The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution,
>nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states
>respectively, or to the people.
> 10th Amendment
scraw...@worldnet.att.net
>
> --
> MUFF
> Charles Robison wrote in message
> <6tqk4n$q6a$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>...
> > Draft dodgers and their entire families should be driven from this
> >country. If you are not willing to fight for this land and our society you
> >should not benefit from it.
> >
As an old codger who avoided the Viet Nam draft by enlisting for
places where there were other jobs to be done, it strikes me that Darlin'
Bill could have thought of some alternatives himself. After all,
He tried marijuana, but he didn't actually inhale;
He went into "real estate," but never actually sold the lots;
He went into a partnership, but never actually did business with it;
He went to Mickey D's, but didn't actually eat the fries;
He waved his peepee all over the Oval Office, leaving stains in and
on various objects, but "did not have sex with that woman."
One suspects that he could have joined the Army, but managed never
actually to /do/ the push-ups.
dmh
Perry
Charles Robison
draft dodgers should be booted from our country. There were all kinds of
guys who were medics because they didn't want to kill anybody. Jerks like
Klinton piss me off. If you got a draft card and didn't go when they
called, you dodged simple as that.
K&AT
Makes no difference to me, draft dodger or not. He's and ass, has always
been an ass, is showing his ass now and is certainly making an ass of those
who could not see what he was all along by voting for and supporting him.
Hope there are not many parents of young and tender and smart that ask too
many questions about what is happening to our president now. Makes me wonder
what this country is really so much about to elect and support such a piece
of mamma's boy smart ass for a president,even as governor. +For those who
just think it is all about sex, I wonder at your character and leadership
abilities or understanding as well. Certainly not above reproach myself, I
still feel I have a vital element lacking by such as he, PERSONAL INTEGRITY,
and my military experience constantly reminds me how vital that is to a REAL
leader, although I'm also reminded it seems to be a lost trait among so many
that fail to understand that--INTEGRITY. Jus' Art
Stephen B. Kimble
Unfortunately for them they'll have to go elsewhere to find
freedom of religion. Also, unfortunately for them and their ilk,
they put God above the United States.
Sadly,
-just plain Jane
----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Robison wrote:
> Draft dodgers and their entire families should be driven from this
> country. If you are not willing to fight for this land and our society you
> should not benefit from it.
>
Stephen B. Kimble
-jpJ
================
SHIPFIXR wrote:
> >Draft dodgers and their entire families should be driven from this
> >country. If you are not willing to fight for this land and our society you
> >should not benefit from it.
> >
Paul A Laird
support condone the cowardice of going Canada because you didn't want to be
drafted. Mohammed Ali spend time in jail because he didn't want to be
drafted. I respect him because he stood for his beliefs and paid the price
for civil disobedience. You, however, turned tail and ran. You didn't want
to obey the draft laws; but neither did you want to pay the penalty for
civil disobedience. That is cowardice.
Paul Laird
Anonymous <nob...@base.xs4all.nl> wrote in article
<6c73603bda067b1f...@base.xs4all.nl>...
pphil
>
>Charles Robison wrote:
>>
>> Draft dodgers and their entire families should be driven from this
>> country. If you are not willing to fight for this land and our society you
>> should not benefit from it.
>>
>> Charlie
>
>Granted, I no fan of anyone who dodged the draft illegally, but exile
>their ENTIRE family as well? What if his father is a WWII or Korean War
>vet? Because his son emigrated to Canada, Europe, etc., you want to
>exile the old man as well? I remember reading about a guy with an
>unusual sense of humor. Adolf felt that if you had an ounce of Jewish
>blood, that qualified you & your family for a once-in-a-lifetime
>experience: loss of property, removal of any rights or dignity, plus(get
>this!) an all expense paid cross-country trip in overcrowded, smelly,
>unsanitary freight cars(feces, urine & vomit at no extra charge!) to a
>camp where you enjoy all the torture, starvation, disease, gassing &
>incineration you can handle. Of course I'm being sarcastic, but you get
>the point. At least I hope you do.
I'm pretty sure old Charles would hang you from the nearest flagpole if he
thought he could get away with it. And me too. Luckily for us, people that
think like this are generally not given positions of authority. Even G. Gordon
Liddy would be scared of this guy. Funny thing, I never hear people talk like
this in real life unless they're drunk. Yeah, guys like this are always at
the back of the crowd yelling "Lynch him, Lynch him"; or "Jump, Jump" but when
you turn around to see who said it there's either no one there or it's some
pathetic old sot who can barely stand up. Pretty weird huh?
pphil
PangK
>From: "Paul A Laird" <palaird#1...@angelfire.com>
>Newsgroups: soc.veterans,alt.mens-rights,milw.general
>Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
OOoops!! Moore screwed up AGAIN!!!
>Message-ID: <01bde2b2$95d40c80$6512410c@default>
>References: <6c73603bda067b1f...@base.xs4all.nl>
ANONYMOUS REMAILER FORGERY!!!!!
>
>While I support you, Pang, in some of your work for men's rights, I cannot
>support condone the cowardice of going Canada because you didn't want to be
>drafted. Mohammed Ali spend time in jail because he didn't want to be
>drafted. I respect him because he stood for his beliefs and paid the price
>for civil disobedience. You, however, turned tail and ran. You didn't want
>to obey the draft laws; but neither did you want to pay the penalty for
>civil disobedience. That is cowardice.
>
>Paul Laird
You know Moore, David or Dennis, whichever name you are using today, one of
these days you are going to forge a post to the WRONG guy! And then you'll get
some "career counselling." Yoiu are a pathetic loser and it is little wonder
why the Mari Corps elected to rid itself of trash like you. You were and
remain a disgrace to the uniform.
And let's cut the bullshit here. UNLIKE YOU, I served HONORABLY! *I*
didn't need to whine and go back and beg to have my discharge UPGRADED! See,
when I served you had to EARN your HONORABLE DISCHARGE! And if your service
was not up to snuff you did't get one and there was NO whining and getting a
new one. *I* can look at MY DD 256 and KNOW that it was EARNED!
*I* don't have to bullshit my kids or my wife.
And it isn't hard to verify David. As I said, my DD 214 is on file at
the Milwaukee county courthouse as well as in St. Louis records center. *I*,
unlike YOU, have nothing within MY service record to HIDE from. Nothiing of
which I cannot be extremely proud. My 201 file has commendations that rise to
the command level of the Air Force. Yours? Well Davey Boy, *I* would change MY
name too with a record like yours! I'd post anonymously too and forge posts if
I had YOUR service record.
As I have said before, I have known MANY Marines. You strike me as a
MARIE!
PangK
>From: Mixmaster <mixm...@remail.obscura.com>
>Newsgroups: soc.veterans
>Organization: mail...@replay.com
More David Moore SISSY nonsense!
>
>Way to go! You got outta that one without providing a shred of proof....but
it was a close one!
>You sure dodged that question....just like you dodged the draft for Vietnam!
Well weenie, *I* don't have to SCREAM
about posting info about my service. Like YOU did, whining like a 2 year old
when you demanded I post your full name and serial number. When I did you CRIED
like a baby.
My Air Force serial number was AF 16-631-305. My service data CAN be located
on the AF web pages as well as from the Records Center in St. Louis.
No David, my service record is something *I* can be poroud of, unlike you
getting your sorry ass cashiered from the Marines Corps.
*I* didn't RUN from battle David.
You see David, when I served there was no SISSY APPEAL. You either made
the grade or you didn't. You had to EARN an Honorable Discharge then. No going
back and getting a Bad Conduct or General UPGRADED. Much less a DISHONORABLE!
Unlike YOU, I can tell my wife and kids the TRUTH about my service. All
you can do is make sum bucket allegations from an ANONYMOUS remailer. And that
sort of says it ALL about you! I don't need much mroe proof than that.
SHIPFIXR
>Bull shit, you can't be one unless you were drafted. Think about it.
>
Canada to avoid the draft wasn't a draft dodger if he had not actually been
called.....that means a lot of people we've mentioned here are now NOT draft
dodgers....think about that.
DN
PangK
>From: Anonymous <nob...@replay.com>
>Newsgroups: soc.veterans
>> My Air Force serial number was AF 16-631-305. My service data CAN be
located on the AF web pages as well as from the Records Center in St. Louis.
>Once again, PangK dodges the question, and provides absolutely no proof for
his lie.
One again David Moore PROVES he is a yellow coward that RAN in the afce of
the enemy in Desert Storm! David, your conduct, hiding behinf an ANONYMOUS
remailer rather speaks ALL anyone needs to know about you. See, unlike you
SISSY BRITCHES, I can stand up and say who I am and provide VERIFIABLE data!
You, by contrast HAVE to post anonymously and
take cheap shots from safety. Poor little David Moore, now known as Dennis
Moore. Why?
Well let's see if folks can guess why you HAD to change your name. HAD TO!
Poor little David Moore, mommy's boy!
PangK
>From: ship...@aol.com (SHIPFIXR)
>Newsgroups: soc.veterans
You try thinking. What people mentioned? Dan Quayle? he DID serve. He was
in the National Guard and was subject to callup. As I recall, the PORTLY
Limbaugh was not called but did register. And, given his weight at the time, it
would have been unlikely he would have been inducted. Gingrich also registered
for the draft but wasn't called.
Perry is right, just because somebody didn't serve doesn't make them a
draft dodger.
Lots of people were never called. Gingrich and Limbaugh managed to be between
wars in periods of peace where there were no callups.
What would you say about ME? I didn't want to be drafted into the Army
as a ground pounder, so I enlisted in the Air Force. Does that make me a draft
dodger? Does ONLY service in the Army by DRAFT count? WHat of the men who
enlisted in the Marines or Navy? Are they TOO draft dodgers? After all they
didn't wait to get called. How about the Coast Guard?
Aside from our resident shithead, Moore who makes his claims that others
didn't serve (sour taste because HE was kicked out)
most of the rest of us here are vets. In MY case 4 years active in the AF and 2
years active reserve, with an honorable discharge.
Have I made a small point here?
Edward
.......
K&AT wrote in message <3601d...@sleet.snowhill.com>...
many
Dave
(pphil) wrote:
> In article <360142...@hotmail.com>, dj_co...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >
> >Charles Robison wrote:
> >>
> >> Draft dodgers and their entire families should be driven from this
> >> country. If you are not willing to fight for this land and our society you
> >> should not benefit from it.
> >>
> >> Charlie
> >
> >Granted, I'm no fan of anyone who dodged the draft illegally, but exile
> >their ENTIRE family as well? What if his father is a WWII or Korean War
> >vet? Because his son emigrated to Canada, Europe, etc., you want to
> >exile the old man as well? ...
<Snipped for brevity>
> I'm pretty sure old Charles would hang you from the nearest flagpole if he
> thought he could get away with it. And me too. Luckily for us, people that
> think like this are generally not given positions of authority. Even G. Gordon
> Liddy would be scared of this guy. Funny thing, I never hear people talk like
> this in real life unless they're drunk. Yeah, guys like this are always at
> the back of the crowd yelling "Lynch him, Lynch him"; or "Jump, Jump" but when
> you turn around to see who said it there's either no one there or it's some
> pathetic old sot who can barely stand up. Pretty weird huh?
> pphil
You hit it perfectly PPhil! I know nothing about this Charles guy, but obviously
you've seen him on here. It's usually people like this who play on emotions,
rather than sit down & analyze what the hell's going on. It's one thing to be
patriotic, love your country, & stand up for your beliefs, but when a person
begins making "blanket" statements such as his, it usually points towards
desperation or fanatacism. Sure, it's fun to say things like "Kill 'em all, let
God sort 'em out!", but unless the situation absolutely calls for it, nobody in
their right mind would truly believe in it.
It could be that Charles was just trying to push buttons & have some fun, hence my
sarcastic reply to him. If he was serious, then what he's trying to do is "test"
one's patriotism by daring to disagree with him. Like you said, most people don't
get on a tirade like this unless they've been nipping at the bottle too much.
Concerning the statement of me swinging in the wind at the end of a rope, it'd be
pretty pathetic someone could get that worked up over a response to where they
felt compelled to commit murder. At the same time, it's almost a status
symbol...being "marked" or "targeted" by a fanatic! Sounds like a book that needs
to be written.
SHIPFIXR
>>
>>>Bull shit, you can't be one unless you were drafted. Think about it.
>
>>Come on Perry, by strict definition you just said that someone who ran away
>to
>Canada to avoid the draft wasn't a draft dodger if he had not actually been
>called.....that means a lot of people we've mentioned here are now NOT draft
>dodgers....think about that.
>
> You try thinking. What people mentioned? Dan Quayle? he DID serve. He was
>in the National Guard and was subject to callup. As I recall, the PORTLY
>Limbaugh was not called but did register. And, given his weight at the time,
>it
>would have been unlikely he would have been inducted. Gingrich also
>registered
>for the draft but wasn't called.
>
posted and replied to before you jump in with both feet? Perry said a person
can't be a draft dodger if they weren't drafted.....want to run back through it
again now?? As for the people you've named, I didn't specifically have them in
mind BUT, it has been said that some of them are draft dodgers......because of
the ends they went to to avoid the draft....I don't make that statement but it
is mentioned here frequently...do you deny that? Yes, I think someone here
needs to "try thinking" I think there term fits you very well....so give it a
try.
> Perry is right, just because somebody didn't serve doesn't make them
>a
>draft dodger.
Yes, Perry would be right if that is what Perry had said....it isn't
though....
>Lots of people were never called. Gingrich and Limbaugh managed to be between
>wars in periods of peace where there were no callups.
> What would you say about ME? I didn't want to be drafted into the Army
>as a ground pounder, so I enlisted in the Air Force. Does that make me a
>draft
>dodger? Does ONLY service in the Army by DRAFT count? WHat of the men who
>enlisted in the Marines or Navy? Are they TOO draft dodgers? After all they
>didn't wait to get called. How about the Coast Guard?
>
You've gone off track because you haven't read what was posted correctly
and now you're getting up a head of steam to make the derailment complete. You
have made a real spectacle of yourself by not knowing what you were responding
to....keep digging your hole though.
> Aside from our resident shithead, Moore who makes his claims that others
>didn't serve (sour taste because HE was kicked out)
>most of the rest of us here are vets. In MY case 4 years active in the AF and
>2
>years active reserve, with an honorable discharge.
>Have I made a small point here?
Yes, you're a belligerent little asshole. Who asked you for your vet
status? Why bring it up? What does it have to do with what was being
discussed? (of course, your post has nothing to do with what was being
discussed!) Are you going to question MY vet status next?? Perry, are you
catching all this?? Is this guy speaking for YOU???
DN
Perry
says...
>
> >Bull shit, you can't be one unless you were drafted. Think about it.
> >
> Come on Perry, by strict definition you just said that someone who ran away to
> Canada to avoid the draft wasn't a draft dodger if he had not actually been
> called.....that means a lot of people we've mentioned here are now NOT draft
> dodgers....think about that.
>
>
>
They went to Canada because they were drafted I bet. Very few went
because they thought they were going to be drafted. According to some of
the definitions of draft dodger I would be classified as one since I
joined the Army back in 67 to avoid being drafted and how about all those
folks who joined the Navy and Air Force to avoid being drafted in the
Army or Marines. Are they draft dodgers. To answer your question no those
who went to Canada are not draft dodgers unless they received a draft
notice and failed to report. Think about that.
Perry
ship...@aol.com says...
> >
> Don't you think it would be greatly to your advantage to read what's
> posted and replied to before you jump in with both feet? Perry said a person
> can't be a draft dodger if they weren't drafted.....want to run back through it
> again now?? As for the people you've named, I didn't specifically have them in
> mind BUT, it has been said that some of them are draft dodgers......because of
> the ends they went to to avoid the draft....I don't make that statement but it
> is mentioned here frequently...do you deny that? Yes, I think someone here
> needs to "try thinking" I think there term fits you very well....so give it a
Actually when comparing those eligible for the draft and those who were
drafted the odds were you would have never been called up. Back then
before the lottery system quite a few deferments were issued and I bet in
most cases deserved. Like all things in government I'm sure you had some
abuses but also remember the draft boards that drafted and granted
deferments consisted of local people (fiends and ..., remember the
letters) and no doubt about it some of them did a favor for some one.
Others that got deferments only got them because of the rules in place
and did not take advantage of anyone. IMHO that did not make them a draft
dodger. Back during that time when scores of young men in federal prisons
who refused to serve. Mostly the ones who couldn't afford to run off to a
foreign country to hide and some used their status to get away with it
like a famous heavy weight boxer. Now those were draft dodgers. My only
position was and my intent was that just because you had a valid legal
reason for not being drafted you were not a draft dodger.
> try.
>
> > Perry is right, just because somebody didn't serve doesn't make them
> >a
> >draft dodger.
>
> Yes, Perry would be right if that is what Perry had said....it isn't
> though....
Yes it was just not is those words. My intent was there.
PangK
> Don't you think it would be greatly to your advantage to read what's
posted and replied to before you jump in with both feet?
I did read it.
>Perry said a person can't be a draft dodger if they weren't drafted.....want
to run back through it again now??
And I was essentially agreeing with him. Care to read my post again?
>As for the people you've named, I didn't specifically have them in mind BUT,
it has been said that some of them are draft dodgers......because of the ends
they went to to avoid the draft..
I don't think ANY of those 3 did ANYTHING to avoid service. Quayle ENLISTED
in the National Guard. Excuse me but that counts AS service! Neither Limbaugh
nor Gingrich took ANY action to AVOID service.
>Yes, I think someone here needs to "try thinking
I don't care hown many times an invidivual has claimed that those 3 men were
draft dodgers, that doesn't make it true.
> Yes, you're a belligerent little asshole. Who asked you for your vet status?
Why bring it up?
Because HAD you followed this thread in this newsgroup, it WAS brought up by
another poster who claimed that *I* had evaded the draft. But then I can
understand why you missed the origin of this thread in this newsgroup.
SHIPFIXR
>They went to Canada because they were drafted I bet.
That may be but it isn't the point being discussed again, READ what was
said. Shall I quote it for you? "...someone who ran away to Canada to avoid
the draft wasn't a draft dodger if he had not actually been called..." Get it?
"Had not actually been called"?? going back to the original statement.....
"Bull shit, you can't be one (draft dodger) unless you were drafted. "
Very few went
>because they thought they were going to be drafted. According to some of
>the definitions of draft dodger I would be classified as one since I
>joined the Army
Were you in the Army or Air Force? No, by the definition Perry
gave...they wouldn't be draft dodgers..... Do YOU think only a person who
actually got an order to report and didn't is a draft dodger?? A yes or no
will do.
SHIPFIXR
Accidently hit the send key before the other post was done....
>To answer your question no those
>who went to Canada are not draft dodgers unless they received a draft
>notice and failed to report. Think about that.
>
So the term "draft dodger" should not be used to describe someone who
went to Canada or Europe to keep their whereabouts unknown to their local draft
boards thereby avoiding the draft. So we'll know what we're all talking about
from here on in....what do you call these folks?
DN
Perry
ship...@aol.com says...
>
> >They went to Canada because they were drafted I bet.
>
> That may be but it isn't the point being discussed again, READ what was
> said. Shall I quote it for you? "...someone who ran away to Canada to avoid
> the draft wasn't a draft dodger if he had not actually been called..." Get it?
> "Had not actually been called"?? going back to the original statement.....
> "Bull shit, you can't be one (draft dodger) unless you were drafted. "
>
> Very few went
> >because they thought they were going to be drafted. According to some of
> >the definitions of draft dodger I would be classified as one since I
> >joined the Army
>
> Were you in the Army or Air Force? No, by the definition Perry
> gave...they wouldn't be draft dodgers..... Do YOU think only a person who
> actually got an order to report and didn't is a draft dodger?? A yes or no
> will do.
> back in 67 to avoid being drafted and how about all those
> >folks who joined the Navy and Air Force to avoid being drafted in the
> >notice and failed to report. Think abo
>
>
>
my position. The examples above that I was using was what others claimed
as draft dodgers. I was in the Army 26 years. 67-93. My position has
always been you have to have been ordered into induction and not comply
to be a draft dodger. You are kicking around some points that I never
stated. You're reading something that wasn't posted by me at least.
Perry
ship...@aol.com says...
>
> Accidently hit the send key before the other post was done....
>
> >who went to Canada are not draft dodgers unless they received a draft
> >
> So the term "draft dodger" should not be used to describe someone who
> went to Canada or Europe to keep their whereabouts unknown to their local draft
> boards thereby avoiding the draft. So we'll know what we're all talking about
> from here on in....what do you call these folks?
>
> DN
>
that notice is returned with unknown address. Just because they are
living in Canada or Europe doesn't make them a draft dodger but if
selected and hide there where abouts that makes them a draft dodger IMHO.
Put is this way they haven't broken the law until they have been drafted
and fail to report. Part of the process back then was to have a correct
address on record with the draft board. You know any one can sit down and
think of a million exceptions to the norm. I was speaking in general.
This whole thread started when someone incorrectly stated that two
congressmen and a radio show personality were draft dodgers just because
they didn't serve in the military. I disagreed because if that was the
case then we have millions of draft dodgers living in the United States
and I bet they would take exception to that. It really was a simple reply
to a simple post and then the wise asses came out of the wood work to
play semantics or word games.
SHIPFIXR
>You're the one who needs to re-read all the postings. I have not changed
>my position. The examples above that I was using was what others claimed
>as draft dodgers. I was in the Army 26 years. 67-93. My position has
>always been you have to have been ordered into induction and not comply
>to be a draft dodger. You are kicking around some points that I never
>stated. You're reading something that wasn't posted by me at least.
>
Subject: Re: bill clinton
From: pma...@ionet.net (Perry)
Date: 9/17/98 5:52 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: <MPG.106b4e9bb...@news.ionet.net>
In article <6trpmh$513$1...@news2.alpha.net>, DogP...@Frankfurt.com says...
>
> Perry wrote in message ...
>
> >Defend that coward all you want the fact
> >remains he was a draft dodgers and the others mentioned were not.
>
> If they dodged the draft, regardless of the methods, they are by definition,
> Draft Dodgers.
>
>
>
Bull shit, you can't be one unless you were drafted. Think about it.
Now I posted that, by what you said, anyone who never got a draft notice,
no matter how they dodged it (sorry, bad choice of words) isn't a draft dodger.
Apparently that is exactly what you meant and that's fine but I'm taking heat
here for my response to the above post...did you make it or not?? If
yes....what's your gripe with what I've responded with?? If no.....I don't
know.
I have Mr hostility sending me Emails telling me I'm reading a forged
post........did you post the above or not?
DN
SHIPFIXR
>It really was a simple reply
>to a simple post and then the wise asses came out of the wood work to
>play semantics or word games.
>
written...if that makes me a wise ass you can go fuck yourself sport. I don't
make any allegations about any of those clowns you are talking about....or any
other person for that matter. I only take exception to your simplistic
statement and now your attempts to justify it by saying others are playing
semantics or word games...as if you weren't with that post. By the way, like
Mr Hostile, you tell me all about your service...out of context at that, any
reason for it? What are you trying to justify and to whom??
DN
B. Kline
where he was standing sometime in the near future and he moved he would be
a bullet dodger. You can play games with words and say he wasn't dosging
a bullet because none had been fired but he was a bullet dodger anyway.
He moved (dodged) to avoid the bullet he knew was coming.
I personally think anybody who beat feet out of the country to avoid the
draft was a draft dodger. well except for one fellow I know who was away
from home and heard that his greeting was waiting for him. He went off
and joined the Navy for four years instead of going in the Army for 2. He
went into the officer program so I assume he wasn't smart enough to find
Canada.
I wasn't in this argument before but, in my opinion anyone who took ANY
steps or action to keep from being drafted was a damned draft dodger.
Just my opinion.
Perry
says...
one unless you were drafted. Think about it." Really not a big deal just
a short point of view from me. Nothing more nothing less and defiantly
nothing to make a federal case about. Why do you think I have a gripe
because I didn't agree with something. You need to find something else to
do if a posting by me that admitted could have been more detailed got you
going. You got to treat newsgroup posting for what they are "words" and
not be so personal about it. Can't be personal if the parties don't know
each other. It's just a reply to a post and noting mysterious about it.
Perry
says...
directed to you. So FUCK you back you dick breath REMF.
ESAD
Perry
says...
>
> >Hey bud you got an insecurity problem or what. Where in my post was it
> >directed to you. So FUCK you back you dick breath REMF.
> >
> talking to me you asswipe. REMF? Kind of hard when you don't know who you're
> talking to isn't it....I am yet to jump up and tell you about my service.
>
> >ESAD
>
> GPSWTC....
>
> DN
>
I guess asshole you're a fucking squid.
Perry
says...
>
> >>
> >Yes I did post the one liner above and so what. "Bull Shit, you can't be
> >one unless you were drafted. Think about it."
>
> wonder.
>
> Really not a big deal just
> >a short point of view from me. Nothing more nothing less and defiantly
> >nothing to make a federal case about
>
> tell me if THAT is something to make a federal case about.
>
> > Why do you think I have a gripe
>
> than simple conversation....another way of looking at the same thing?? Have
> you read the post that came on in response to mine?? Did HE have a gripe??
> Was he a bit hostile...do you agree with him??
>
> >because I didn't agree with something. You need to find something else to
> >do if a posting by me that admitted could have been more detailed got you
> >going.
>
> response to my post by your partner that was uncalled for...why you chose to
> jump in is more than I can really understand.
>
> > You got to treat newsgroup posting for what they are "words" and
> >not be so personal about it. Can't be personal if the parties don't know
> >each other. It's just a reply to a post and noting mysterious about it.
> >
> post"....I didn't attack and didn't expect to be attacked but here it is and
> now I'm a REMF?? Bullshit. Put the thread in order from yours until now and
> see what's been said......the other guy happens to be a hostile moron...but I
> never thought of you as one.
> >
> DN
>
FUCK YOU SQUID ESAD
Perry
one. Thought you were a veteran guess not.
SHIPFIXR
SHIPFIXR
Joe Taylor
>
> You mean draft dodgers like Newt Gingrich, Dan Quayle, and Rush
> Limbaugh?
>
>Dan Quayle served in the Reserves. That does not make him a draft dodger. I suppose those who joined up, and did not go to Viet Nam was also a draft dodger. Well, mister, we were al prepared to go. We just did not get selected!.
Joe Taylor
SHIPFIXR
>> >ESAD
>>
>> GPSWTC....
>>
>> DN
>>
>For the retard, Rear Echelon Mother Fucker. All War Veterans know that
>one. Thought you were a veteran guess not.
>
indicated that I don't "..know that one..". Not that it matters, but so
you'll know.....I went in country the first time before you were in the
Army...it just isn't that important to me 34 years later. So, like I said:
GPSWTC.
DN
SHIPFIXR
>FUCK YOU SQUID ESAD
Well, so much with trying to reason with a mindless ass. I really thought
this was all a mistake on your part.....and I still think so. The difference
is I now realize you don't care. Go wave your flag. You and that silly,
mindless troll belong together I guess.
As for ESAD......it's a better idea than what you seem to do......eat
shit to live.
DN
SHIPFIXR
>Who gives a shit and I doubt if you ever served and it really doesn't
>matter since I have already formed my impression about you. I wasn't
>talking to you on the first part just making a general statement. So
>go back to fixing ships or playing with yourself or whatever you do
>best. Flaming me will only get a response I really enjoy fucking with
>you so keep it up butt fuck.
>
I enjoy it to, it puts your lame ass up on the screen for all to see.
As for impressions.....I didn't form my impression about you...you made it
clear for all. You are really pathetic.
DN
SHIPFIXR
>Hey so what that makes you an old REMF. Still think you are a non
>veteran
OK....so you've got me as a REMF -and- a non-veteran...good
thinking...shows your Army training. Non-veteran = anyone who calls your
bullshit...right?
> but just a pussy with no life other than his >computer
That could be so; now explain why every time I come on line I find you
here...no life other than your computer. Kind of like the statement that "the
guy must be queer, every time I go in the gay bar, there he is"
and his
>bottle of viagra.
Surely you can do better than that.... I've come to think the stuff was
only invented for bug-wits like yourself to joke about. Hope you don't get
some doctor to prescribe it for you.......the little boys in your neighborhood
will never be safe again.
What the fuck is a "sage" old literate one.
Tell you what, go to your local bookstore and buy a dictionary. You'll
accomplish two things: (1) You'll be able to look up the hard
words and (2) You will finally own a book.
Can't
>claim to be a war hero since all I did was my duty and made it out ok.
Well, we'll take your word for it.....what kind of REMF duty was it?
Laundry?? I know you never got shot at.....you'd be not so fast to label
others if you ever had. Like I said before......it just wasn't that big a
thing, I went because I was a career man and I was given a set of
orders...that's it pure and simple
anything else is bullshit and if you were really there you know it.
>Again ESAD and FOD old mighty one who fixes ships.
>
And, like I said to you: eating it and dying would beat eating it to
live. And, like I also said: GPSWTC....asshole.
I've been in a lot of flame exchanges in the past but this is the first
one that started for nothing.....where's your pussy friend Kennie now?
SHIPFIXR
>I'm honored that an ass hole like you feel that my postings are
>important enough to notice.
>
I'd imagine you are honored....
>Never did butt licker.
>
>You said it and only asked why you low life chicken fucker.
>>
You're a class act..... That's how real he-men talk isn't it?? I don't
think you have the snot to pull this off.....you just aren't smart enough.
>Oh I get it. You are a looser who wants to play a little game well I'm
>ready. So keep it up and I will be ready to respond.
Nothing you are saying makes any sense; spending the weekend in a bottle?
>Demwit you started the profanity that was directed personally and
>hence initiated this current flame war. I am determined to finish this
>on my terms and I will never give up
Who is this really??? "Demwit"?? Listen kid, why don't you just go sit
in your tire and relax.....the keeper will be by soon with a nice
banana for you...
What are your "terms"?? That is a totally laughable statement you
pathetic moron.
Whoever this is posing as Perry Marlin is wasting their time.....No way
this two-for-nickle puke is him....nice try.
Perry
ship...@aol.com says...
have no problem lowering yourself to my high standards. I'm pathetic
maybe but why do you care if I don't. If I'm that bad that makes you in
the same category since I look at all who post on the newsgroup as
equals. I doubt all will really give a damn what goes on between us on
this and my impression of you has been made and like you state above you
made it clear. I don't care if I'm called pathetic by you as coming from
a looser it really doesn't carry much weight. I'm really looking forward
what other choice observations you have made about my character. Have a
nice day squid.
Perry
says...
>
> >Hey so what that makes you an old REMF. Still think you are a non
> >veteran
>
> OK....so you've got me as a REMF -and- a non-veteran...good
> thinking...shows your Army training. Non-veteran = anyone who calls your
> bullshit...right?
Nope not anyone, just you old wise one. Read my post again it was
directed to you.
>
> > but just a pussy with no life other than his >computer
>
> That could be so; now explain why every time I come on line I find you
> here...no life other than your computer. Kind of like the statement that "the
> guy must be queer, every time I go in the gay bar, there he is"
Nope he who fixes ships I did a dejanews search on you and your postings
outnumber my postings 5 to 1. I knew it,that you had a fixation with
homosexuals.
>
> and his
> >bottle of viagra.
>
> Surely you can do better than that.... I've come to think the stuff was
> only invented for bug-wits like yourself to joke about. Hope you don't get
> some doctor to prescribe it for you.......the little boys in your neighborhood
> will never be safe again.
Little boys in my neighborhood, oh man that really hurts now you are
calling me a pervert but I'll let that pass since you seem to have a
problem with little boys and homosexuals constantly in your thoughts.
>
> What the fuck is a "sage" old literate one.
>
> Tell you what, go to your local bookstore and buy a dictionary. You'll
> accomplish two things: (1) You'll be able to look up the hard
> words and (2) You will finally own a book.
Oh I know what "sage" means but coming from you it had to be a mistake
since you were in a flaming mode and being called a sage is really quite
complimentary. So you either were calling me a plant or a person showing
wisdom and good judgement. Since you left it up to me I'll choose the
latter one.
>
> Can't
> >claim to be a war hero since all I did was my duty and made it out ok.
>
> Well, we'll take your word for it.....what kind of REMF duty was it?
> Laundry?? I know you never got shot at.....you'd be not so fast to label
> others if you ever had. Like I said before......it just wasn't that big a
> thing, I went because I was a career man and I was given a set of
> orders...that's it pure and simple
> anything else is bullshit and if you were really there you know it.
Nope did 26 years active in the Army, 18 months in Vietnam with the first
year as a light infantryman like thousands of others. Ended my career as
a Command Sergeant Major of a Brigade with aprox 3,000 soldiers. But not
a big deal as I was just one of many he did the same. Now I'm retired and
a 100% service connected disable veteran. Now that I have given you some
of my background, how about you?
>
> >Again ESAD and FOD old mighty one who fixes ships.
> >
> And, like I said to you: eating it and dying would beat eating it to
> live. And, like I also said: GPSWTC....asshole.
>
> I've been in a lot of flame exchanges in the past but this is the first
> one that started for nothing.....where's your pussy friend Kennie now?
>
>
>
Who in the hell is Kennie? Tell you what I don't know if you have noticed
I have toned down the profanity which I really don't care for. You can
keep it up if you want but I'm not going to do. I will reply but in a
civil manner.
Have a good day squid.
*The* Didaskalos
== *The* Didaskalos wrote:
== >
== > You mean draft dodgers like Newt Gingrich, Dan Quayle, and Rush
== > Limbaugh?
== >
== >Dan Quayle served in the Reserves. That does not make him a draft dodger. I suppose those who joined up, and did not go to Viet Nam was also a draft dodger. Well, mister, we were al prepared to go. We just did not get selected!.
== Joe Taylor
American Patriots:
KENNETH STARR - Classified 4f, due to Psoriasis, skin condition
RUSH LIMBAUGH- Sought deferment for infected hair follicle.
Divorced 3 times.
BILL BENNETT- Graduate School deferment, too smart to die.
NEWT GINGRINCH- Graduate School deferment, too smart to die.
dumped his wife, served her with divorce papers, on her hospital bed.
Says blow jobs are not adultery.
PAT BUCHANAN- Sought deferment for a bad knee.
ELLIOT ABRAMS- Sought deferment for a bad back.
VIN WEBER- Sought deferment for asthma.
DANIEL QUAYLE- Family got him into the Reserves. He couldn't get in in
his area of Indiana, so his family pulled strings and got him in in a
small town half way across the state. That's the kind of thing you can
do when you are rich and own newspapers that politicians want to
support them in the next election.
P.J. O'ROURKE- Too stoned.
GEORGE WILL- Too much of a wussy, too smart to die.
PAT ROBERTSON- Father (US Senator) pulled him out of Korea as soon as
the shooting started.
JOHN WAYNE - All American Television War Hero, Never Signed UP.
PHIL GRAMM - Sought college deferment - too smart to die.
Hypocritical Cowards or Conservative Heros?????
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Our thought for the day, a lesson from history:
"All members of the SS and police must be in the forefront of
the fight to eliminate homosexuality from the German people."
-- Heinrich Himmler, March 7, 1942 Memorandum.
(Imperial War Museum, London, H/6/165)
Are you a political or religious Conservative?
Remember this: those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
jrn
this great country...
SHIPFIXR
>Non-veteran = anyone who calls your
>> bullshit...right?
>
>Nope not anyone, just you old wise one. Read my post again it was
>directed to you.
I'll stand by what I said. I made non-veteran status by differing with
you, be willing to bet it's one of your favorites
.>Nope he who fixes ships I did a dejanews search on you and your postings
>outnumber my postings 5 to 1. I knew it,that you had a fixation with
>homosexuals.
Now just what are you going to claim you found on dejanews that shows I
have "...a fixation with homosexuals" That's a bit much isn't it??
>Little boys in my neighborhood, oh man that really hurts now you are
>calling me a pervert but I'll let that pass since you seem to have a
>problem with little boys and homosexuals constantly in your thoughts.
Hey, can't stand the sound of the big guns....stay off the gun deck...I
would never have made a lame-oid statement about viagra.....open the
subject....get to hear about it.
>
>Oh I know what "sage" means but coming from you it had to be a mistake
>since you were in a flaming mode and being called a sage is really quite
>complimentary. So you either were calling me a plant or a person showing
>wisdom and good judgement. Since you left it up to me I'll choose the
>latter one.
Good, now the next word for you to look up is "context"...once you are
sure of what that is....go back and read the post again, it may come to you in
a great blinding flash of light.
>Nope did 26 years active in the Army, 18 months in Vietnam with the first
>year as a light infantryman like thousands of others. Ended my career as
>a Command Sergeant Major of a Brigade with aprox 3,000 soldiers. But not
>a big deal as I was just one of many he did the same. Now I'm retired and
>a 100% service connected disable veteran. Now that I have given you some
>of my background, how about you?
>>
I did 25 years in the Navy....and held every grade but two between E1 and
O4 (I was never an E9 or O1). I spent my tour in Vietnam with RPG- 51 on
PBR's. I have a 30% service connected disability..... I've been retired since
'85.
>>
>Who in the hell is Kennie? Tell you what I don't know if you have noticed
>I have toned down the profanity which I really don't care for. You can
>keep it up if you want but I'm not going to do. I will reply but in a
>civil manner.
>
Are you kidding.....??? The guy who attacked me for responding to your
post......responding in a civil manner I might add. And who you've jumped in
to back up: Ken Pangborn. You really haven't been following this thread have
you? As for toning down the profanity.....you've used most of it, not I.....so
I don't have much to keep up. Why are you suddenly going to "reply in a
civil manner?" If you'd done that from the start this wouldn't be going on in
the first place.
SHIPFIXR
>On the serious side I just did a archive check on all the postings
>between us and I can't figure out how this crap started. I also
>noticed that after reading your other postings we agree on 99 percent
>of the issues. The exception being the draft. You can do what you want
>but for me I'm stopping my end of this childish flame war.
>
Perry, that's what I've been asking you to do from the start.......I couldn't
understand what we were going on about and I said so. I don't think we
disagree on the draft either but that's another issue. I'll be happy to stop
if you will.
DN
Joe Taylor
>
> Joe Taylor <kan...@hotmail.com> wrote to and milw.general:
>
> == *The* Didaskalos wrote:
> == >
> == > You mean draft dodgers like Newt Gingrich, Dan Quayle, and Rush
> == > Limbaugh?
> == >
> == >Dan Quayle served in the Reserves. That does not make him a draft dodger. I suppose those who joined up, and did not go to Viet Nam was also a draft dodger. Well, mister, we were al prepared to go. We just did not get selected!.
> == Joe Taylor
>
> American Patriots:
>
> KENNETH STARR - Classified 4f, due to Psoriasis, skin condition
> RUSH LIMBAUGH- Sought deferment for infected hair follicle.
> Divorced 3 times.
>
In the 60's married men did not get drafted!!! Was an intelligent way to
avoid the draft, but not dodge it by leaving the country.
By the way, another way to avoid the draft was to say you were
homosexual! But even they did not leave the country in hiding!
> BILL BENNETT- Graduate School deferment, too smart to die.
> Yes, college kept many kids from the draft. But not a disgraceful way to avoid the draft.
> NEWT GINGRINCH- Graduate School deferment, too smart to die.
>
Again, education deferment was not a disgrace.
>
> PAT BUCHANAN- Sought deferment for a bad knee.
> Physical impairment means not medically qualified. Could not get in if hewanted to.
> ELLIOT ABRAMS- Sought deferment for a bad back.
Duhhh.......Are you stupid or what? Medically unfit is a routine,
but, not a disgraceful way out.
> VIN WEBER- Sought deferment for asthma.
>
DITTO!!!!!
> DANIEL QUAYLE- Family got him into the Reserves. He couldn't get in in
> his area of Indiana, so his family pulled strings and got him in in a
> small town half way across the state. That's the kind of thing you can
> do when you are rich and own newspapers that politicians want to
> support them in the next election.
>
Nobody needs family to get into the reserves. Not in the 60's nor
today. If one signs up before being drafted, then whats the problem/
Also, the reserves will not keep a person from going to combat. However,
many people like myself enlisted in the Air Force or another branch.Many
of my friends went to Viet Nam. I didn't go. I did not avoid going, I
just was not selected. So that must make me a draft dodger!
Dan Quale and the others you mentioned never left the country to avoid
the draft!
As for the rest you mentioned, well, just look at the above and see the
same results.
Also, use of drugs deferred one from military draft, via a trip to
prison.
Oh, yes, why didn't you mention prison as a way to "dodge the draft"?
You are either very young or very stupid.
Joe T
*The* Didaskalos
== For every cowardly Conservative, you will find many more Conservatives not afraid to serve
== this great country...
==
Name 3.
Perry
thedidaskalosTAKEM...@hotmail.com says...
> jrn <jim.n...@worldnet.att.net> wrote to and milw.general:
>
> == For every cowardly Conservative, you will find many more Conservatives not afraid to serve
> == this great country...
> ==
>
> Name 3.
Sen John McCain, USN 58-81, ex-pow, now US Senator
Hon Randy (Duke) Cunningham, USN 67-87, now US Congressman from CA.
Hon Bill McCollum, USN 69-72, USNR 72-92, now US Congressman from Fl.
Hon Michael Bilirakis, USAF 51-55, now US Congressman from Fl.
Sen Paul Coverdell, USA 62-64, now US Senator
Hon John Linder, USAF 67-69, now US Congressman from GA.
Hon Henry Hyde, USN 42-46, USNR 46-68 Congressman From Il
Sen Chuck Hagel, USA 67-68 Now US Senator
Sen Robert Smith, USN 65-67
Hon Gerald B.H. Solomon USMC 51-52
Sen Jesse Helms USN 42-45
Sen Lauch Faircloth USA 54-55
Sen James M. Inhofe USA 54-56
Sen Arlen Specter USAF 51-53
Hon Bud Shuster USA 54-56
Sen John H. Chafee USMC 42-45
Sen Strom Thurmond USAR 24-41 USA 42-46 47-60
Plus about 50 to 75 more I currently have information on.
Edward Combs Jr.
............
jrn wrote:
>
> Nice job perry. Lets add Bush to that list as well...
jrn
*The* Didaskalos wrote:
> jrn <jim.n...@worldnet.att.net> wrote to and milw.general:
>
> == For every cowardly Conservative, you will find many more Conservatives not afraid to serve
> == this great country...
> ==
>
> Name 3.
>
jrn
Perry wrote:
> In article <36052196...@news.alpha.net>,
> thedidaskalosTAKEM...@hotmail.com says...
> > jrn <jim.n...@worldnet.att.net> wrote to and milw.general:
> >
> > == For every cowardly Conservative, you will find many more Conservatives not afraid to serve
> > == this great country...
> > ==
> >
> > Name 3.
>
> Sen John McCain, USN 58-81, ex-pow, now US Senator
> Hon Randy (Duke) Cunningham, USN 67-87, now US Congressman from CA.
> Hon Bill McCollum, USN 69-72, USNR 72-92, now US Congressman from Fl.
> Hon Michael Bilirakis, USAF 51-55, now US Congressman from Fl.
> Sen Paul Coverdell, USA 62-64, now US Senator
> Hon John Linder, USAF 67-69, now US Congressman from GA.
> Hon Henry Hyde, USN 42-46, USNR 46-68 Congressman From Il
> Sen Chuck Hagel, USA 67-68 Now US Senator
> Sen Robert Smith, USN 65-67
> Hon Gerald B.H. Solomon USMC 51-52
> Sen Jesse Helms USN 42-45
> Sen Lauch Faircloth USA 54-55
> Sen James M. Inhofe USA 54-56
> Sen Arlen Specter USAF 51-53
> Hon Bud Shuster USA 54-56
> Sen John H. Chafee USMC 42-45
> Sen Strom Thurmond USAR 24-41 USA 42-46 47-60
>
> Plus about 50 to 75 more I currently have information on.
>
> >
*The* Didaskalos
== In article <36052196...@news.alpha.net>,
== thedidaskalosTAKEM...@hotmail.com says...
== > jrn <jim.n...@worldnet.att.net> wrote to and milw.general:
== >
== > == For every cowardly Conservative, you will find many more Conservatives not afraid to serve
== > == this great country...
== > ==
== >
== > Name 3.
==
== Sen John McCain, USN 58-81, ex-pow, now US Senator
He's not really a conservative. For example he went against his own
party in co-sponsoring McCain-Feingold campaign reform.
== Hon Henry Hyde, USN 42-46, USNR 46-68 Congressman From Il
This adulterer is quite a conservative, isn't he.
*The* Didaskalos
== Nice job perry. Lets add Bush to that list as well...
==
Hardly a conservative.
R. Soyack
old saying, "a mind is a terrible thing to waste." Your terribly closed
mind is a waste.
Rich Soyack
*The* Didaskalos wrote:
>
> pma...@ionet.net (Perry) wrote to and milw.general:
>
> == In article <36052196...@news.alpha.net>,
> == thedidaskalosTAKEM...@hotmail.com says...
> == > jrn <jim.n...@worldnet.att.net> wrote to and milw.general:
> == >
> == > == For every cowardly Conservative, you will find many more Conservatives not afraid to serve
> == > == this great country...
> == > ==
> == >
> == > Name 3.
> ==
> == Sen John McCain, USN 58-81, ex-pow, now US Senator
>
> He's not really a conservative. For example he went against his own
> party in co-sponsoring McCain-Feingold campaign reform.
>
> == Hon Henry Hyde, USN 42-46, USNR 46-68 Congressman From Il
>
> This adulterer is quite a conservative, isn't he.
>
jrn
*The* Didaskalos wrote:
> jrn <jim.n...@worldnet.att.net> wrote to and milw.general:
>
> == Nice job perry. Lets add Bush to that list as well...
> ==
>
> Hardly a conservative.
>
Dave
Joe Taylor wrote in message <360345...@hotmail.com>...
>*The* Didaskalos wrote:
>>
>> You mean draft dodgers like Newt Gingrich, Dan Quayle, and Rush
>>
>>Dan Quayle served in the Reserves. That does not make him a draft dodger.
Yes, it does. He joined, knowing full well that there was almost no chance
in hell that his unit would ever be recalled to active duty. Whether one
afilliates with a reserve/national guard unit, or runs to Canada, the motive
is the same; to dodge the draft.
If one wanted to go to Vietnam, all he had to do was ask. The Army would
never have said "No."
>I suppose those who joined up, and did not go to Viet Nam was also a draft
dodger.
If they did so to avoid active duty, then yes, they are.
>Well, mister, we were al prepared to go. We just did not get selected
Lucky you, huh?
Dave
jrn wrote in message <36045C5A...@worldnet.att.net>...
>For every cowardly Conservative, you will find many more Conservatives not
afraid to serve
And vice-versa.
Dave
Joe Taylor wrote in message <36049B...@hotmail.com>...
>In the 60's married men did not get drafted!!!
Say what????? Where were you? The widows of a lot of draftees will have a
field day with that one.
>Was an intelligent way to
>avoid the draft, but not dodge it by leaving the country.
>By the way, another way to avoid the draft was to say you were
>homosexual! But even they did not leave the country in hiding!
White House spin. Leaving the country or utilizing a loophole; draft
dodging is draft dodging.
>Again, education deferment was not a disgrace.
If it's done to avoid serving one's country, then it it.
> Duhhh.......Are you stupid or what? Medically unfit is a routine,
>but, not a disgraceful way out.
It is if the draft dodger requested the deferrment rather than letting the
Army figure it out.
There have been thousands of servicemen who had medical ailments that would
have kept them disqualified, but kept them hidden for the purpose of
serving.
>> VIN WEBER- Sought deferment for asthma.
>>
>DITTO!!!!!
DITTO!!!!
>
>> DANIEL QUAYLE- Family got him into the Reserves. He couldn't get in in
>> his area of Indiana, so his family pulled strings and got him in in a
>> small town half way across the state. That's the kind of thing you can
>> do when you are rich and own newspapers that politicians want to
>> support them in the next election.
>>
>
>Nobody needs family to get into the reserves.
They do if they want to affiliate with a unit that wouldn't normally have
accepted them.
>If one signs up before being drafted, then whats the problem/
See above.
>Also, the reserves will not keep a person from going to combat.
No, but it sure as hell lessens the chances.
>I did not avoid going, I
>just was not selected. So that must make me a draft dodger!
Only if joining the AF was your motivation to avoid getting shot.
>Dan Quale and the others you mentioned never left the country to avoid
>the draft!
Quibbling. Leave the spin to the lawyers.
>You are either very young or very stupid.
Maybe both, but not naive. A duck is a duck.
David Lloyd-Jones
up.
My own military experience is non-conformist+ADs- I was a Master Cadet, which
means you get a glass of sherry once a year in the officers' mess (of the
Second Battalion, Queen's Own Rifles,one of the world's more, uh, direct
fighting units) I am one of the few dozen best rifle shots in the British
Commonwealth. My father was a weapons designer during WWII (bombs and guns
only)+ADs- and in my own adulthood I have spent a lot of time hanging out with
the nuclear weapons elite.
But then I'm a Canadian who went +ACo-to+ACo- the States.
Roughly 50,000 Canadians served in US forces during the Vietnam period. The
normal joke is: This greatly increased the average IQ of both countries.
+ACo- +ACo- +ACo-
Early on in the Vietnam bust-up -- at the time of the BienHoa raid, when
Kennedy increased the number of +ACI-advisors+ACI- from 500 to 10,500 -- I thought
the whole thing was a crock.
My interest at that time was mainly decolonialism, and I was a tremendous
admirer of Eisenhower, who had stuck it to the English imperialists time
after time, starting in maybe 1944, and ending in 1957 when he rammed it to
Anthony Eden in Suez.
+ACo- +ACo- +ACo-
During my first Washington period I was equipped with an airline credit
card and an auto-rental credit card. I was like a free prick in a
whorehouse: go anywhere, do anything. I went to Southern Arkansas, and
cleared up that situation toot sweet. (Actually I helped a groundswell of
opinion behind the lawsuits of my friends Jerry Cohen, representing the
U.S., and the NAACP Legal Defence Fund, representing the actual people.)
During this period I worked against the war.
I had spent much of my youth in France, and as a socialist and a democrat I
was brought up so that I might admire Premier Mendes-France -- the guy who
drinks milk -- rather than the right wing gunsels, wine and brandy
drinkers all :-) , who stood against him.
This may be hard for many people to believe, but when Mendes-France declared
the French retreat from Vietnam in 1954 (53?) over the radio on top of our
second-hand art-nouveau Fridgidaire refrigerator, my mother and father
smiled with satisfaction, my sister and I waved our hands in the air before
we went back to the sausage and mash.
The victory of our ally Ho Chi Minh and his forces, against the French
imperialists, was a victory of all sensible and decent people everywhere.
+ACo- +ACo- +ACo-
What, then, was the problem? Kennedy tried to out-Nixon Nixon, is my view
of it.
This is a difficult notion for many Americans to get undre their belts,
because it is common in the US to think ok Kennedy as a liberal, one on the
left of the spectrum.
That's fine: that's how Americans may see it. But the rest of the world
looks upon JFK as a peverse constricted rightist, a guy who bought his
election, a chickenshit on civil rights, a moron on Cuba, and a general
fool. Americans who read the American press are living in a world of dreams
by the standards of the rest of the world.
+ACo- +ACo- +ACo-
Children at the door: have to close this screed.
-dlj.
David Lloyd-Jones
Dave wrote in message +ADw-6u6die+ACQ-78e+ACQ-1+AEA-news2.alpha.net+AD4-...
+AD4-jrn wrote in message +ADw-36045C5A.C84739B8+AEA-worldnet.att.net+AD4-...
+AD4APg-For every cowardly Conservative, you will find many more Conservatives
not
+AD4-afraid to serve this great country...
+AD4-
+AD4-And vice-versa.
Hunh?
Right there, in front of your nose, a country which will not serve
conservatives.
Wey-yull. God-damn.
-dlj.
scraw...@worldnet.att.net
And I mean "boy," something rather far from a man, the lot of you.
I've been following this "thread" for too long, listening to children
debate the draft when they have no idea what it is or was.
Today, you kids have registered with your local Selective Service
Board, and that is all. You have not registered for the draft, because
there is no draft.
The draft during the Viet Nam ruckus was by lottery, period. The
draft has /always/ been by lottery -- when it was needed. In the Civil
War, you could buy your name off the picked list for 200 bucks -- or
get somebody else to go for you. In the Spanish-American ruckus, the
draft was not invoked. In WWI, the draft was invoked, but so many
volunteered that no lottery was held; there were more volunteers than
all branches of the military could handle. The same relationship
obtained in WWII. The Korean thing had to rely on the lottery -- and
the resentment to it was just as bitter as for Viet Nam; more so,
because the casualty and MIA figures were considerably higher. Viet
Nam again relied on the lottery, however considerably more than half
of all combat troops (as opposed to support) over there were career
volunteers: there is nothing worse to have at your back or flank than
a recalcitrant.
Draft dodging.
There are many means, and all of them qualify for the title.
From 1964-1972, the most popular by far was to enroll in college when
all you were good for was flipping burgers. Kennedy's abolition of
the silver standard, and the subsequent printing of money for NDSL and
grants saw "student" enrollment at U.S. colleges rise by a factor of
5-1/2 between 1964-68. The result was the utter destruction of grade
curves, curricula, and quality of faculty -- a condition from which we
still suffer, it being now in its second generation of illiteracy. This
condition obtained because it changed one's draft "classification" from
1-A (the only one subject to the lottery) to 1-S (if you were no more
than a warm body registered for a class) or 3-S (the original student
deferment, reserved then and now for "critical professions" such as
chemistry, physics, electronics, engineering -- and requiring a 3.0 or
better grade average).
About 2500 Flower Children headed for Canada, most to the principal
"hippy" colony in Nova Scotia (which is still there, albeit severely
depleted). Most did /not/ wait for the letter from the President; it
was a point of "honor" to make it "their decision," not the draft's.
Going into ROTC was /not/ a dodge, for it only put one's service off
for four years -- and the first place a new shavetail got posted to was
the good old 'Nam. This was hard on the shavetails and on those under
them, but the practice was never abolished.
Less popular only than the student deferment was the National Guard or
the Active Reserve (only veterans of active duty are assigned the
inactive reserves, and then only to fill out a six-year total enlistment).
Heck, you got to play sojer once a month, got paid for it, got to wear
your duds any time you felt like it (usually out-of-uniform), and would
never, never, never be called to active duty: hell, we had the /draft/
for that. However, several Guard, Reserve, and active (myself among
them) units got called up for the race riots at Watts, Cleveland, and
Hashbury, and later for the student fracases. Hot stuff.
Do not misunderstand. The Guard and Reserve are /today/ how we maintain
the military at all, beyond a half-dozen active units and a skeleton
staff of cadre -- just in case. But going into the Guard or Reserve
/today/ is not draft-dodging, because there is no draft. During the
'Nam, troops -- good ones -- were wanted. What we got were the ones
who weren't smart enough to duck.
There was one costly way to dodge the draft, but it had to be done
before you got the letter from the President. That was to enlist in
one of the services -- three years for the Regular Army, four years for
the others. The regular draft hitch was for two years, and you were
often released from active duty on your rotation home (not only from
Viet Nam, but also Korea, the Philippines, and anywhere else considered
a "combat zone" whether there was shooting or not), for a total of
rather to considerably less than two years. And your chance of being
shot at in the 'Nam was about 5%. Your main enemies were loneliness
and boredom.
I put in 4-1/2 years active, and saw two mobilisations over the Czech
ruckus in '67 and three over Lebanon. I do not like being outnumbered
5-1/2:1 by tank divisions whose guns are 15mm bigger than ours. I do
not like waking up every morning for three years knowing that my
"combat mission" is to /buy four days until we can bring in the reserves/.
That's nothing but a fancy way of saying "expendable." Well, you learn
to live with it, and you learn to make yourself damned expensive.
Especially, you learn to have fun despite it. You learn to live with
the draftees calling you "fuckin lifer" and the no-shows calling you
"baby-killer." Sort of. Frankly, my dear, they just don't count.
Anyway, I wound up with the best draft dodge of all, a classification
of 4-A: "sufficient prior service." I missed the Tet Offensive. I
missed the student riots. See, a 4-F (medical) is subject to review.
I could have had a 4-F without any effort at all. My feet were/are
so flat I can suck tile off a concrete floor with them. So I stood on
the edges of my feet through the exam, and looked like I had arches.
Three guys in the same line were 4-Fed for much less-severe cases. See,
I'm a total jerk, with a concept of duty, of earning my citizenship.
But yes, I avoided the draft. Dodged. Because Viet Nam turned out to
be no more than helping two indigenous tribes, one of them having
control of the government, exterminate three other indigenous tribes
with whom they had been feuding for 2000 years. When it comes to the
Viet Nam thing, we were nothing but suckers. And most of us knew it
at the time.
Draft-dodging is a cultural phenomenon, and a whole culture did it in
various manners for over 15 years. "Failure to Report for Induction"
is another matter entirely. That's a federal crime worth 10 years in
Leavenworth -- and the loss of all citizenship privileges. Thus,
almost nobody waited around for that letter from the President.
MACV (1955-1964) was one thing. Had I made a career of the military,
I'd happily have taught anything I knew if assigned to -- but I was
never that kind of cadre. But in '64, Johnson made it our "war" --
sending us as /political police under a foreign government/. A half-
dozen things about that status and relationship stuck in the American
craw -- and merely getting shot at didn't happen to be one of them.
The same objection arose over Korea, but the active ruckus didn't last
long enough for opposition to become organised or figure out alternatives.
Getting shot? The /average/ kid who got caught by the draft stood a
better chance of seeing violence done to him on his own home block than
he did in downtown Saigon. And he usually knew it.
Draft-dodging by enlistment was not uniformly successful, either.
From 1966, there were four "troop levies" of 40,000 men each from
USAREUR alone to Viet Nam. I was removed from the first three by my
command, and was gone by the fourth. I was removed simply because I
had made myself "indispensable" in a service where nobody's supposed to
be indispensible (bad strategy). But that is another story.
Draft-dodging during the 'Nam? /More power to any who got away with
it, by any means they got away with it/. The U.S. was not under attack
by any power in the world at any time during the 20 years. The
military were never given war powers at any time: the entire engagement
was dictated by /fucking civilians/: Congress, the State Department,
the Cock In Ass (CIA) gang. And because they weren't there, it was a
fucking /game/: who's sucking whom this week. "Body Count."
If some bastard shows up on my doorstep to force me to "fight tyranny,"
I'll fight tyranny. I'll fight the closest tyrant I can find -- by
shooting the bastard who showed up to draft me. If he really felt that
strongly about it, he should have been over there -- not bugging me.
As he was bugging me, he only proved himself a liar who was trying to
play me for a sucker.
To avoid that scenario, I enlisted.
Best dodge of all: look at all the bennies I got.
dmh
E.D. Holman
And there, my friends, is proof that indians fucked buffalos.
Gee, I wonder what the cosmopolitan French (Canadians) opnion is today?
scraw...@worldnet.att.net
You say either too much or too little. "Too much" in that you place
a chip on the American shoulder and then knock it off in a manner a
little too flip for taste; "too little" in that one can't quite figure
out your point.
The debacle at Dienbenphu was in '54. France threw it to Ike, who
created MACV and insisted that the ARVN handle it themselves. The
ARVN had nothing and nobody (evidently France treated them as wogs to
the bitter end). The ARVN soldier was too damned small to handle the
M-14, so we "adopted" that stinking .22 and pretended to use it
ourselves so we could supply him with a weapon he could hang onto. He
generally threw it away at the first noise of gunfire.
Kennedy was a completely typical liberal ("left") Democrat who almost
got us into one war and did get us into another. Lincoln /inherited/
the Civil War from the Dixiecrats. Wilson couldn't keep us out of WWI.
FDR's policies deliberately created the Japanese attack on Pearl; it
was "good for the economy." Truman "went to Korea." Kennedy abolished
silver and replaced it with paper to further socialist policies started
by FDR -- who abolished gold after devaluing silver from 20:1 to 32:1.
It seems to be quite forgotten that Japan went to Viet Nam in 1938 --
looking for oil. According to the experts, the geological formations
"demand" the presence of large oil reserves, and indeed some appear
under Indonesia, merely a spit away. France went to Viet Nam for oil.
The U.S. went to Viet Nam for oil. It was the U.S. who last discovered
that, if there was any oil there, they couldn't discover it -- and
pulled out essentially when it was convenient, i.e., when there was
nothing to be gained but helping two tribes exterminate three others
with whom they'd been at odds for 2000 years (we were totally /suckered/
into that aspect of it). While looking for oil is rather to the right
of things, that was Ike; sending police to work under a foreign directive
is pretty far to the left, and that was Kennedy and Johnson.
If Kennedy "bought his election" (granted, he had the bucks, or his
Daddy did), he did it in the usual American manner: he bought the
press, who wallow in fashion and fantasy (cf. "Camelot"). But "out-
Nixoning Nixon"? Pfui. Poles apart. Press /hated/ Nixon/Agnew, unless
you mean the /first/ (Nixon/Stevenson) election, in which he was merely
treated as a total nonentity. This is exactly usual: Democrats own
95% of American media, and see to it that it stays that way. It's
probably the only way they win /any/ elections. As you pointed out by
ellipsis, or perhaps thinly-veiled innuendo.
"Ho Chi Minh /our/ ally"? Kindly speak for yourself; such a statement
makes a USArian a microtad sick, even though wartime alliances have had
us in bed with some pretty strange fellows in our own time, too.
However, we don't run around bragging about it.
Hmm. "Canadian"? "Quebequois," perhaps? The "anti-imperialist"
cant sounds just a tad familiar. And the empires fell for the same
reason they always do: it just doesn't pay. All you have to do is
wait...
dmh
SHIPFIXR
scrawlmark wrote:
>Boy, oh, boy, oh, boy.......
........are you full of shit!.
DN
Paul A Laird
other men of that era. Dan Quayle did not "dodge the draft". He chose to go
into the National Guard instead of the regular army; again, this is
something many men of his day did. Rush Limbaugh did not "dodge the draft".
He was 4-F; meaning he had any army physical and the doctors found a
physical condition that made him unfit for military service; as happened to
many men; myself included. You really should have your facts straight
before you post.
There was no way for Dan Quayle to know whether or not the unit to which he
was assigned would go to VietNam. The commander of that Unit even thought
that unit WOULD go to Southeast Asia because of their specific duties: they
were a physical support unit.
Your claim that joining the National Guard is the same as running away to
Canada is a slur on all National Guard members who served from 1965 - 1974.
It is quite obvious you have no knowledge of what you speak. Paul Laird
> > >*The* Didaskalos wrote:
> > >>
> > >> You mean draft dodgers like Newt Gingrich, Dan Quayle, and Rush
> > >> Limbaugh?
> > >> He joined, knowing full well that there was almost no chance
David Lloyd-Jones
Paul A Laird wrote
>
>Your claim that joining the National Guard is the same as running away to
>Canada is a slur on all National Guard members who served from 1965 - 1974.
>
Yep. And 100% deserved.
-dlj.
David Lloyd-Jones
scrawlmark+AEA-worldnet.att.net wrote
+AD4- Kennedy was a completely typical liberal (+ACI-left+ACI-) Democrat who almost
+AD4-got us into one war and did get us into another.
It's difficult to argue the meaning of right and left with a guy who seems
to support the gold standard, neanderthal, and the fixing of the gold-silver
ratio, australopithecine.
From this guy's point of view walking on our hind legs is probably the
result of ADA agitators in the schools.
My view is that Kennedy never saw a Latin-American fascist he didn't like+ADs-
boggled the civil rights movement at every opportunity+ADs- and had no politics
beyond working on his pretty-boy image. Jackie summed it up best: +ACI-His
favorite piece of music is 'Hail To The Chief.'+ACI-
-dlj.
David Lloyd-Jones
scrawlmark+AEA-worldnet.att.net wrote in message
+ADw-6u6mgi+ACQ-jjv+AEA-bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net+AD4-...
+AD4- About 2500 Flower Children headed for Canada, most to the principal
+AD4AIg-hippy+ACI- colony in Nova Scotia (which is still there, albeit severely
+AD4-depleted).
This number is about two orders of magnitude low. No real figure is possible
because the migrations both ways between the US and Canada are several
hundred thousand people in any given year, with a slightly larger number
going south than north. Americans come to Canada because of our better
standard of living. Canadians often retire to the sun belt for the warmth.
Most estimates of the number of young anti-war migrants to Canada that I
have seen
are in the 200,000 range.
FWIW I registered for the draft at the Armory in Washington, D.C., walking
in side by side with two black teenagers. Without blinking the woman at the
middle of the counter directed them to one end and me to the other. I got a
card under Draft Board +ACM-1, which had a quota of zero. None. They went to
your normal average D.C. draft board, which meant a high likelihood of 'Nam.
I had had brushes with racism from time to time, (the only time I have ever
been refused entry to a bar was once in Georgetown when I had a black date)
but never
before had I seen it operate so smoothly and automatically.
-dlj.
scraw...@worldnet.att.net
selective service system generally, i.e., that it is totally controlled
by local (county) draft boards, who are appointed for that they know
-- and will maintain -- the local distinction between The Beautiful
People and the rest of mankind beyond the pale. This distinction
operates to select
and maintain the police as well, in an effect exactly opposite to that
of selection of the military.
dmh
John LaBrecque
Tell that to the Guardsman that saves your house from that forest fire,
hurricane, flood or protects you and yours from those rioters and
looters.
--
Semper Fi
Jack L
http://members.aol.com/jitb/stand.htm
CIS-[GO ATTNCR]
My son, Marc, is now one of the few, the proud,
a United States Marine.
"Some people live their entire lifetime and wonder if
they ever made a difference to the world. Marines don't
have that problem." -- Ronald Reagan, January 1995
SHIPFIXR
>FWIW I registered for the draft at the Armory in Washington, D.C., walking
>in side by side with two black teenagers. Without blinking the woman at the
>middle of the counter directed them to one end and me to the other. I got a
>card under Draft Board +ACM-1, which had a quota of zero. None. They went to
>your normal average D.C. draft board, which meant a high likelihood of 'Nam.
>I had had brushes with racism from time to time, (the only time I have ever
>been refused entry to a bar was once in Georgetown when I had a black date)
>but never
>before had I seen it operate so smoothly and automatically.
>
"'Nam" right??
DN
Edward Combs Jr.
tape...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahaaaaaaaaa
............
Edward Combs Jr.
because youn are well versed in the "Queens English" dosen't meam you
have to be an ass.
..................
Paul A Laird
National Guard from 1965 - 1974. It is also obvious YOU are not a veteran.
Why not?
Paul Laird
David Lloyd-Jones <d...@pobox.com> wrote in article
<WrNN1.647$YP5.1...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>...
David Lloyd-Jones
Edward Combs Jr. wrote in message <35EC64...@concentric.net>...
>Please stop writing in code so tht one can get thru your post. Just
>because youn are well versed in the "Queens English" dosen't meam you
>have to be an ass.
>..................
I get it: you have an out-of-date newsreader, and you figger this gives you
a license to insult other people. Interesting theory.
-dlj.
David Lloyd-Jones
Paul A Laird wrote in message <01bde6bb$31958fc0$a712410c@default>...
>I dare you to say that in front of, say, 100 veterans who served in the
>National Guard from 1965 - 1974. It is also obvious YOU are not a veteran.
>Why not?
Paul,
In my experience National Guard "veterans" are happy to boast about how they
got out of the draft.
I am not a vet because my draft board -- the board that handled white folks
in Washington D.C. -- had a quota of zero.
-dlj.
Bruno Wolff III
It is not appropiate to post binaries in milw.general. HTML is a machine
readable (and for automated HTML it is pretty much only machine readable)
and shouldn't be posted here.
The only widely accepted binary information that should be posted to
discussion groups (unless they specifically make an exception) are
digital signatures.
You should also be very carefull what features you have enabled with
your browser if you are reading newsgroups or email with it. People can
play games with people who going around reading any old thing with all
of their browser's features enabled.
scraw...@worldnet.att.net
To stick my own oar in, I'm a DOS Baby; I use WIN3.11 /only/ to go
online. The /only/ ISP I could find with WIN3.11 software was AT&T,
and they stuck me with this perhaps-proprietary version of IE. I'm
told it's a dog, but I get a 95% adequate response out of it.
No, I can't click on URLs embedded in e-mails, and yes, I see a little
naked hotmetal and machine gobbledygook in these posts.
But I figure that if I can't read it, the writer wasn't interested
in having me do so, and I skip it. This is worldshaking? For decades,
I communicated with a typewriter, which isn't even up to 7-bit ASCII --
and I figured out ways to say anything I needed to.
On the Gripping Hand, this is a psychology NG. Why would anyone
here want to impress us with what, relatively, amounts to hacking (in
the old and honorable sense, before the RD got hold of the term). Come
on -- impress us with psychology.
dmh
Perry
approval ratings after. Big difference but this is ok because as long you
post inaccurate crap like above some good level headed Republican will
correct you. His personal approval ratings are in the 20% range.
jim gordon
Be cool, my man! I did not see the original post, but from the Re:
subejct line AND first-hand experience, I have an idea what Ed's
complaint was: He's getting e-mail in html format rather than plain
text. Tht's a valid complaint and it doesn't have anything to do with
having an "out-of-date newsreader." There's a lot of times that people
compose their posts in html and send them that way. The normal
new-reader picks up the html codes as plaintext and renders them that
way. It makes reading difficult. Now I'm using NSC 4.Ox and have no
problem reading PROPERLY COMPOSED html messages (those with all the
fancy graphics, etc). However, at other times, I receive html messages
with ALL the script in plaintext. Don't ask me what the difference is,
but I do know that I have the option of indicating which addressees
prefer to receive html. As I don't know who does and who doesn't I stick
to the old-fahsioned plain text like this. 8-)
David Lloyd-Jones wrote:
>
> Edward Combs Jr. wrote in message <35EC64...@concentric.net>...
> >Please stop writing in code so tht one can get thru your post. Just
> >because youn are well versed in the "Queens English" dosen't meam you
> >have to be an ass.
> >..................
>
> I get it: you have an out-of-date newsreader, and you figger this gives you
> a license to insult other people. Interesting theory.
>
> -dlj.
--
Cheers,
Jim Gordon, Laurel, MD USA
Ken Knapman
*The* Didaskalos wrote in message <36052196...@news.alpha.net>...
>jrn <jim.n...@worldnet.att.net> wrote to and milw.general:
>
>== For every cowardly Conservative, you will find many more Conservatives
not afraid to serve
>== this great country...
>==
>
>Name 3.
>
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
>Our thought for the day, a lesson from history:
>
>"All members of the SS and police must be in the forefront of
>the fight to eliminate homosexuality from the German people."
>
> -- Heinrich Himmler, March 7, 1942 Memorandum.
> (Imperial War Museum, London, H/6/165)
>
>Are you a political or religious Conservative?
>Remember this: those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
>
>http://www.geocities.com/westhollywood/village/1360
Robert L. Collier
working modern society is to base all promotions on the bases of sexual
performance, and/or knowledge of embarrassing facts about the powerful?
--
Robert L. Collier* CEO
Collier Electronics - http://www.flash.net/~rcollier
Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened.
--Winston Churchill
Paul A Laird
Laird
David Lloyd-Jones <d...@pobox.com> wrote in article
<na5O1.928$YP5.1...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>...