Swan songs and thanks for all the fish etc.
Cathryn Platine
This is the only word that seems to fit what's happened among the
"activist elite" on these various "yahoo" mailing lists (being right in
line with the traditional MEANING of "yahoo").
Marina Brown and myself almost totally removed ourselves from politics
for a variety of reasons, not the least was this type of insanity.
Instead, we've put our time, lives and efforts into Gallae Central
House.........and still we find ourselves being libelled, insulted,
harassed, magazine bombed and so forth.
We declined interviews on "Trans-Sister Radio" after being viciously
libelled and out and out threatened by a "guest" on that show. We both
decided to break the chain of reactions.........only to be accused of
censorship and hounded relentlessly by the "hosts"!!!!
Censorship?.....me and Marina?.........for chosing NOT to speak out?
Doublethink has a new benchmark!
In the last couple of days, a couple of NTAC members list postings were
forward to me where NTAC's top most paranoid claim that Marina and I
are putting words in Danielle Clark's mouth..........anyone who's ever
dealt with Danielle Clark for more than 24 hours straight could tell you
exactly how bloody unlikely it is that ANYONE could tell Danielle what
to say. And for the record, no, we aren't "kicking her out" she's
visiting here and is not a member of the household.
Look folks, let me spell it out............I spoke and spoke and spoke
to the between 60 and 120 individuals on these various lists who
delusionally believe they are the "community". I was the one who
practically BEGGED others to drop the CD vs. TS thing that resulted in
this list being shut down the last time. I left most of the lists AFTER
all my linked Yahoo accounts were "nuked" on a phoney
complaint.........that's all accounts, my primary email address, five
different groups I owned, my membership in all other groups, yahoo
messager account, geocities homepage including the only factual herbal
hormone page on the web and so on......... My reaction?
I decided to drop it and leave politics and do what I was doing in real
life. I've said my say to those 60 to 120 trans-whatever, transfans,
cyber-trans, CD/TVs and hangers on and they've made it abundantly clear
they don't want to hear me or even suffer me being in the same world as
them........fine. I don't CARE what you discuss on your lists as long
as you leave me OUT!!!!!!!! NTACers, I long ago concluded you are
engaged in
mainly mental masturbations and therefor have zero interest in what you
plot, ok? Clear enough?
Look, Danielle earned the "crazy" she's widely known as but she is doing
more good than all the NTACer's combined in terms of things that
directly affect REAL people in the REAL world. That's the long and the
short of it, regardless of whether or not she "crows" about it.
For the record...........I disagree with her comments on the Philly law
as well as many other stands she takes.
I agree with her that the proposed march on DC is a SPECTACULARLY bad
idea, it shows every sign of becoming a crossdresser fetish wear party
in the streets that could only put back the image and cause of
transsexual women fifty years. I most assuredly do NOT want an
assortment of individuals in 2 ozs of leather thong and feathered boas
or folks who look like Charles Bronson in drag being associated with
me. That's a personal opinion and I don't give two handfuls of wet
whatever how anyone else feels about my personal opinion, so don't
bother to tell me.
I agree that national gender politics is in the hands of the group I
nicknamed the "Crossdresser mafia" and the "Not Ready For Full Time
Players", one of the main reasons I want nothing to do with it anymore.
I stopped believing in the tooth fairy a long time ago and it just took
longer to figure out that CD's mostly want coattail legitimacy of their
collective sexual fetistisms on the prenatal neurological
intersexuality medical condition also known as transsexualism. I
realize some transsexuals go through a stage of identifying as CDs/TVs
through ignorance, but that doesn't change the basic facts. After "TG"
comments about how transsexual women don't have to worry about being
"outted" and thus losing jobs like "Marty" just made (both Marina and I
have been outted by "sisters" in the past over political differences, I
lost that job, Marina didn't) After comments by a CD about how Danielle
was lost to the "collective", a clear shot at our housing project,
which, by the way, is NOT a commune. After the ongoing, real life
harassment by someone whom I STILL have no idea what the hair across
their butt about me is, but apparently has devoted "her" Kentucky
"woman" life to libelling, threatening and harassing me. After having
the TG Fund folks offer a bounty to have me removed from the NTAC
board... After all that and oh so much more, is it any wonder I have a
bad taste in my mouth about trans-politics? Oh, and if anyone wonders
WHY "Danielle" aka David Aikins was told to leave our HOME........go to
http://danielleswildside.com (not the same Danielle as Danielle of the
RV) For those of you not TOTALLY ignorant of the internet, do a whois on
the ownership of that page...........that's my personal PO box and Laura
Potter's unlisted personal phone number!!!!!!
For years I've heard these "TGs" and CDs/TVs piss and moan about how
once a transwoman goes full time or post-op they separate from the
"community" and woodwork...........I got news for you folks, you drive
them away in droves!!!!!!!!
Add Marina and I and now Danielle Clarke to the looooooong list of
transsexual women driven out by TG fundamentalism. If you don't want to
help us do our housing work, please leave us alone.
--
Cathy Platine
@)-'--.--'
"Leading transies is like trying to herd cats. You get nowhere and just
annoy the cats."
Marti Abernathy
for a variety of reasons, not the least was this type of insanity.
Instead, we've put our time, lives and efforts into Gallae Central
House.........and still we find ourselves being libelled, insulted,
harassed, magazine bombed and so forth.>>
Cathy, I know you've done much for the community. Your spirit and drive are
known throughout the community. You have expressed a desire to "remove yourself
from politics" and have made it known that your moving on. One question begs an
answer ... why do you keep the flames going by posting? Don't get me wrong, I
love your fiery brand of online rhetoric. It seems like you keep coming back
for more discussion, when you've said in the past your through with all of
this.
<<We declined interviews on "Trans-Sister Radio" after being viciously
libelled and out and out threatened by a "guest" on that show.>>
Sorry for the correction, but Marina was scheduled as a guest, but ditched us
at show time without so much as a word. As far as being threatened, did that
happen on the show? Dawn Wilson was a guest on the show, and she talked about
many things. What was it that you found threatening? I have listened to the
stream on more than one occasion and find nothing bad about you in it. Its the
equivalent of saying that you wont watch "Meet the Press" because you hate Dick
Chaney, and you don't watch it because they had him on once. It makes no sense
to me, could you explain?
<<We both decided to break the chain of reactions.........only to be accused of
censorship and hounded relentlessly by the "hosts"!!!!
Censorship?.....me and Marina?.........for chosing NOT to speak out? >>
Just an example..read above....First a potshot at the show, then a
non-response. This is a tactic known as "jump and run."You attack the show,
then when your asked to back up accusations, you respond with.."dont email me
or Marina. Any further contact will be considered harassment."
<<I decided to drop it and leave politics and do what I was doing in real
life. I've said my say to those 60 to 120 trans-whatever, transfans,
cyber-trans, CD/TVs and hangers on and they've made it abundantly clear
they don't want to hear me or even suffer me being in the same world as
them........fine.>>
I, for one have never heard anyone say that they don't want to hear from you. I
have seen people that don't get along with you, argue with you, but that's
about all.
As for the TV Vs TS Vs CD Vs PDQRSTUVWXYZ debate, a wise sage transsexual once
said
"Communities consist of individuals. Individuals are, well, individual. Men and
women work together all the time for the common good, transvestites and
transsexuals should be able to as well, but like men and women, the two groups
are vastly different. Celebrate and acknowledge the difference and much can be
done. Fail to see the difference and some will be hurt quite badly."(
http://cathyplatine.freeyellow.com/essay7.htm )
<<I don't CARE what you discuss on your lists as long as you leave me
OUT!!!!!!!! NTACers, I long ago concluded you are engaged in mainly mental
masturbations and therefor have zero interest in what youplot, ok? Clear
enough?>>
This just seems bizarre to me. If you want nothing to do with the TG community,
why do care what's posted about you...?
<<Look, Danielle earned the "crazy" she's widely known as but she is doing
more good than all the NTACer's combined in terms of things that
directly affect REAL people in the REAL world. That's the long and the
short of it, regardless of whether or not she "crows" about it.>>
"Crowing" as you call it, is someone saying "LOOK WHAT I'VE DONE." Danielle has
spammed the same messages over many boards, "crowing" about what she has done,
then chiding others and using her "works" to put others down. The "TRUMPS YOU"
email comes to mind ....
<<I agree with her that the proposed march on DC is a SPECTACULARLY bad
idea, it shows every sign of becoming a crossdresser fetish wear party
in the streets that could only put back the image and cause of
transsexual women fifty years. I most assuredly do NOT want an
assortment of individuals in 2 ozs of leather thong and feathered boas
or folks who look like Charles Bronson in drag being associated with
me.>>
Then I would suggest you not attend. What strikes me here is that you don't
want to be associated with a Charles Bronson drag queen. Amazing... are you for
freedom of expression of an individual? Sounds like you have a thing against
drag queens to me....and an obvious slam at someone that "isn't you." SOUND
FAMILIAR?
<< That's a personal opinion and I don't give two handfuls of wet
whatever how anyone else feels about my personal opinion, so don't
bother to tell me.>>
HELLO, you've posted to a Ygroup!!!!
<<I agree that national gender politics is in the hands of the group I
nicknamed the "Crossdresser mafia" and the "Not Ready For Full Time
Players", one of the main reasons I want nothing to do with it anymore. >>
Yet you still post here. Your obvious bigotry is alarming. Before you
"nickname" people, maybe you should dig and find out why you need to nickname
them. Hatred, typically is built on unresolved issues.
<< After "TG" comments about how transsexual women don't have to worry about
being "outted" and thus losing jobs like "Marty" just made (both Marina and I
have been outted by "sisters" in the past over political differences, I
lost that job, Marina didn't)>>
Um, Danielle was talking about 24/7 transsexuals. How can you be "outed" if
your 24/7 and everyone knows? LOL..and your covert little gender slam with my
name was cute, and typical.
<<After the ongoing, real life harassment by someone whom I STILL have no idea
what the hair across their butt about me is, but apparently has devoted "her"
Kentucky "woman" life to libelling, threatening and harassing me. >>
It seems that YOU, cant even get out one sentence without orally harassing ...
the gender knocks " ", what the hell is that Cathy? Are you questioning her
womanhood?
<<After having the TG Fund folks offer a bounty to have me removed from the
NTAC
board... >>
That is truly comical. A BOUNTY....prove it. ..MMMM that's what I thought.
<<Add Marina and I and now Danielle Clarke to the looooooong list of
transsexual women driven out by TG fundamentalism. If you don't want to
help us do our housing work, please leave us alone.>>
How about I add you to the list of people that "piss and moan" about being
driven away from the community...then come right back, and say that they are
leaving again.
MARTI
Marti Abernathey is a CO-host on TSR Live! TSR Live can be heard in rebroadcast
(Live show is Thursday nights 8-10 eastern) at http://www.trans-sisterradio.com
. To find the latest transgender news, get TG wire @
http://www.transadvocate.com.
Becky Juro
Cathryn Platine wrote:
> Unbelievable!
>
> This is the only word that seems to fit what's happened among the
> "activist elite" on these various "yahoo" mailing lists (being right in
> line with the traditional MEANING of "yahoo").
>
> Marina Brown and myself almost totally removed ourselves from politics
> for a variety of reasons, not the least was this type of insanity.
> Instead, we've put our time, lives and efforts into Gallae Central
> House.........and still we find ourselves being libelled, insulted,
> harassed, magazine bombed and so forth.
>
> We declined interviews on "Trans-Sister Radio" after being viciously
> libelled and out and out threatened by a "guest" on that show. We both
> decided to break the chain of reactions.........only to be accused of
> censorship and hounded relentlessly by the "hosts"!!!!
> Censorship?.....me and Marina?.........for chosing NOT to speak out?
> Doublethink has a new benchmark!
I did accuse you of censorship, but of self-censorship. You've complained
frequently that you've been silenced by the community. We offered you a
chance to speak your mind in an uncensored forum, as we did Marina...I even
called and spoke to you personally to try to encourage you to offer your
viewpoint on the issues Dawn raised. YOU chose not to take advantage of our
offer. That's not on us, Cathy, that's on YOU!
I have real problems with Danielle's idea's of the nature of our community,
from both social and political perspectives. Creating walls within our
community serves no one, and worse, weakens our political power. The reality
is that there are a heck of a lot more CD's than TS's...we need their
numbers as much as we need gays and lesbians on our side. Politicians
respond to numbers. If we're ever to be taken seriously and have any real
chance of getting truly equal civil rights we have to practice the same kind
of inclusion we preach to str8s. We need to be looking for ways to unite and
increase our political influence, not chop us up into itty-bitty little
insignificant fringe elements. I've said it before, and I'll say it again:
Riki's got exactly the right idea here. We need to all be marching under the
same banner if we're to be heard.
>
>
> For the record...........I disagree with her comments on the Philly law
> as well as many other stands she takes.
>
> I agree with her that the proposed march on DC is a SPECTACULARLY bad
> idea, it shows every sign of becoming a crossdresser fetish wear party
> in the streets that could only put back the image and cause of
> transsexual women fifty years. I most assuredly do NOT want an
> assortment of individuals in 2 ozs of leather thong and feathered boas
> or folks who look like Charles Bronson in drag being associated with
> me. That's a personal opinion and I don't give two handfuls of wet
> whatever how anyone else feels about my personal opinion, so don't
> bother to tell me.
Again, numbers, numbers, numbers...we can't afford to be choosy, even if we
wanted to be. Not only isn't it fair or right, it's political suicide to do
otherwise.
>
>
> I agree that national gender politics is in the hands of the group I
> nicknamed the "Crossdresser mafia" and the "Not Ready For Full Time
> Players", one of the main reasons I want nothing to do with it anymore.
> I stopped believing in the tooth fairy a long time ago and it just took
> longer to figure out that CD's mostly want coattail legitimacy of their
> collective sexual fetistisms on the prenatal neurological
> intersexuality medical condition also known as transsexualism.
It saddens me to hear you talk that way, Cathy. Such disparaging nicknames
are unworthy of an activist of your caliber.
> I
> realize some transsexuals go through a stage of identifying as CDs/TVs
> through ignorance, but that doesn't change the basic facts. After "TG"
> comments about how transsexual women don't have to worry about being
> "outted" and thus losing jobs like "Marty" just made (both Marina and I
> have been outted by "sisters" in the past over political differences, I
> lost that job, Marina didn't) After comments by a CD about how Danielle
> was lost to the "collective", a clear shot at our housing project,
> which, by the way, is NOT a commune. After the ongoing, real life
> harassment by someone whom I STILL have no idea what the hair across
> their butt about me is, but apparently has devoted "her" Kentucky
> "woman" life to libelling, threatening and harassing me. After having
> the TG Fund folks offer a bounty to have me removed from the NTAC
> board... After all that and oh so much more, is it any wonder I have a
> bad taste in my mouth about trans-politics? Oh, and if anyone wonders
> WHY "Danielle" aka David Aikins was told to leave our HOME........go to
> http://danielleswildside.com (not the same Danielle as Danielle of the
> RV) For those of you not TOTALLY ignorant of the internet, do a whois on
> the ownership of that page...........that's my personal PO box and Laura
> Potter's unlisted personal phone number!!!!!!
I think you're reading waaaaaay too much into Dawn's comments. Originally,
we'd agreed not to even discuss the flame wars, but Dawn decided to comment
on them on-air midway through the interview. Frankly, that flame war is a
part of our community's history and should be documented, discussed, and
learned from. Again, we'd hoped to include your perspective because we
believe it's important, even critical, for other perspectives on those
events to be heard.
Another thing: TSR isn't about presenting the NTAC point of view any more
than any other. We've had perhaps a disproportionate amount of NTAC folks on
the show thus far because those are the people who've accepted our
invitations to come on the show. If you listen in over the next several
weeks, you'll hear perspectives from people who have nothing to do with
NTAC. We're making a concerted effort to present as diverse a roster of
guests as possible...that's one of the reasons I made a special effort to
try to have you and Marina join us.
>
>
> For years I've heard these "TGs" and CDs/TVs piss and moan about how
> once a transwoman goes full time or post-op they separate from the
> "community" and woodwork...........I got news for you folks, you drive
> them away in droves!!!!!!!!
>
> Add Marina and I and now Danielle Clarke to the looooooong list of
> transsexual women driven out by TG fundamentalism. If you don't want to
> help us do our housing work, please leave us alone.
That's another reason we wanted you two on: To help publicize and generate
support for Central House. We both think the work you're doing is great and
should be a model for the community. We DO want to help, if you'll let us.
>
> --
> Cathy Platine
> @)-'--.--'
> "Leading transies is like trying to herd cats. You get nowhere and just
> annoy the cats."
>
> http://centralhouse.gallae.com
We're not the enemy, Cathy. If you've learned anything about me over time
we've known each other online, you should know I don't play that. I've stood
up for you when I've felt you're in the right. I've defended your right to
be heard, even when others would prefer you be silenced. I continue to do so
now, but I also defend that right for Dawn Wilson, and any of our other
guests. Freedom of speech is for everyone, regardless of whether we, you, or
anyone else agree with what's being said...if you don't like what Dawn, or
any other guest says on TSR, then excersize that right come on the show, and
speak your mind. Our offer is still open...all you and Marina need do is
ask.
I hope you'll reconsider, and add your thoughts to our discussions, but
please, don't blame us for your choices. All we can do is offer the soapbox.
It's up to you to step up and take advantage of it. If you choose not to,
that's fine, but then don't complain you're being slandered or silenced.
Opinion is just that: opinion, and that's what our guests have been
offering. We want your opinion too, and we've offered you the opportunity to
present it to our listeners. The rest is up to you...
Peace and Power,
Becky
Co-Host of Trans-Sister Radio
Thursdays, 8-10pm eastern
http://www.trans-sisterradio.com
Caillean McMahon
When I began transition I lost my job as a medical director of an
agency. The opportunity to "hang up" my clothing and resume an old
identity did not exist. The one characteristic of transsexuals that sets
them apart from others in the trans-spectrum is that their losses are
irrevocable.
In re: trans politics: I recently was out at a dance club where local
trans-politics were being discussed, the percieved power of Sister TV or
Sister TG; whomsoever.
I didn't know them and their activities meant precious little to me.
Their occupying this or that post did not impact me in any way, except
to make the conversation dreadful amongst the TG/TV womyn present. By
being out where and when I am at, I am an activist in my own right,
earning respect as a womyn through my actions or losing it through my
actions. I make easier the road of anyone who would follow me.
LOst to the collective, btw, might be a refernece to the Borg
Collective, which would make you Borg Queen, Cathy-not bad looking like
Alice Krige. is it?
Hmmmm....."We are the Gallae, you will be assimilated, resistance is
futile."
<wry smile and a hug for you and Marina>
Caillean of Borg
Dana Wolf
<evilest_Trans...@radicalbitch.com> wrote:
I dont know who you are but I love you! : )
Dana
Marina Brown
> LOst to the collective, btw, might be a refernece to the Borg
> Collective, which would make you Borg Queen, Cathy-not bad looking like
> Alice Krige. is it?
> Hmmmm....."We are the Gallae, you will be assimilated, resistance is
> futile."
Hi Caillean:
Cathy is far too much of an individualist to ever be a borg queen.
Sometimes i (even me) get a bit upset with her unstructured ways of
doing things. ...But they get done.
HugZ
Marina
Cathryn Platine
>
> I did accuse you of censorship, but of self-censorship. You've complained
> frequently that you've been silenced by the community. We offered you a
> chance to speak your mind in an uncensored forum, as we did Marina...I even
> called and spoke to you personally to try to encourage you to offer your
> viewpoint on the issues Dawn raised. YOU chose not to take advantage of our
> offer. That's not on us, Cathy, that's on YOU!
I chose not dignify Wilson's insane vendetta with a response publically
for moral, ethical and legal reasons.........I chose not to partake in
what showed every sign of being an attempted Jerry Springer style "lets
you and her fight" fest on your "radio" show. Virtually every word your
"co-host" has written on the various yahoo lists and here proved me
right on that one. "Marty" appears interested mainly in confrontational
"conversations". No thank you.
>
>
> I have real problems with Danielle's idea's of the nature of our community,
> from both social and political perspectives. Creating walls within our
> community serves no one, and worse, weakens our political power. The reality
> is that there are a heck of a lot more CD's than TS's...we need their
> numbers as much as we need gays and lesbians on our side. Politicians
> respond to numbers. If we're ever to be taken seriously and have any real
> chance of getting truly equal civil rights
Bullpucky..........what freakin' community?.......I have NOTHING in
common with fetishistic masturbators, maybe you do, I don't.
I notice it's almost always the CD's and TV's and never-op
trans-whatevers that prattle on and on and on about "community" and piss
and moan endlessly that women of transsexual experience what nothing to
do with it by and large. We don't need no stinkin' cds............
The public has shown over and over and polls confirm and even Pat,
biblethumping Robertson! gets the basic idea that transsexuality is a
prenatal birth condition.
Transsexuals have a social problem, not a psychological one. Those with
psychological needs usually have them spring from the social sources.
Crossdressers are the ones who demonstrate an actual psycho-sexual
disorder..........fetishism.
Even a first year psych student can grasp this........why can't the so
called "community'?......Because there IS NO COMMUNITY, just fetishists
attempting to coattail legimacy on folks with a medical condition!
Your "co-host" cannot even grasp the simple idea that transition doesn't
mean you out yourself all over the place like every time you try to get
a job. Do that and you'll never get a job. You two are so out of touch
with reality as a trans-woman in Amerika there is no common basis for
discussion.
> Again, numbers, numbers, numbers...we can't afford to be choosy, even if we
> wanted to be. Not only isn't it fair or right, it's political suicide to do
> otherwise.
>
Numbers my arse!..............I do NOT need to ally with crossdressing
men to get civil rights, merely get education to those with power.
> It saddens me to hear you talk that way, Cathy. Such disparaging nicknames
> are unworthy of an activist of your caliber.
whatever.........nice dismissal of the rights of women of transsexual
experience to have their own damn identities........for that's what it
boils down to.
> I think you're reading waaaaaay too much into Dawn's comments. Originally,
> we'd agreed not to even discuss the flame wars, but Dawn decided to comment
> on them on-air midway through the interview. Frankly, that flame war is a
> part of our community's history and should be documented, discussed, and
> learned from. Again, we'd hoped to include your perspective because we
> believe it's important, even critical, for other perspectives on those
> events to be heard.
What flame wars?..........that was a fabrication. Truth was Wilson and
Roberts tried to highjack the very beginnings of NTAC......Wilson
resigned from the "transflakes", who always intended to start a
grassroots organization ( I have all the archives) then took our work to
Robert's, and they jumped into the formation on the list I owned,
declared themselves the leaders and several of us cried
"foul"........Crying foul when someone highjacks your organization while
it's being born is hardly "flaming".........heated discussions aren't
flames.
NTAC made themselves a secret organzization and therefore a joke as far
as politics are concerned.......their choice. Outside of their tight
little circle, hardly anyone even knows or cares they exist.
Caillean McMahon
Last night I went out to a coffee house to hear some music.
There was a guitarist playing, and she was very good, we even chatted a
bit.
A transvestite connected with the local PFLAG orginization came up to my
table while I was chatting with the Guitarist during her break and
interrupted to get her to play at a PFLAG fundraiser.
The guitarist asked her how she was involved in PFLAG
She said "I am a transsexual just like her(gesturing to me)"
I left five minutes later.
I prefer to out myself, thank you, if it is to be done, and not be outed
in such a fashion that I would be assicoated as the same as an
outrageously dressed person with who is clearly in drag. This isn't
meant as a put down, it is a preference for me. I try to move very
unobtrusively.
Caillean
ObedientFemme
I'm sorry the incident occurred. However, as you inferred in your post, the
particular individual displayed an overall lack of good manners. There are
transgendered women and transsexual women who are just as obnoxious.
She certainly does not represent all cross dressers, any more than you
represent all transsexuals.
Hopefully, you'll never have to suffer that unpleasant experience again.
With Love,
Roberta Angela Dee
Pauline
"Caillean McMahon" <caill...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3D0B7935...@yahoo.com...
Very sad, but it happens, Half-Wits and nit-wits are everywhere. I should be
able to move on next summer. I will be giving up everything to have a new
life and hopefully no one will know. And I sure wont tell.
Pauline
Marti Abernathy
>what showed every sign of being an attempted Jerry Springer style "lets
>you and her fight" fest on your "radio" show. >>
Fight? How is that...we weren't asking you to come on with Dawn. Actually,
Becky invited you both on before Dawn came on our show.
<<> Virtually every word your
>"co-host" has written on the various yahoo lists and here proved me
>right on that one. "Marty" appears interested mainly in confrontational
>"conversations". No thank you.>>
That's rather ironic coming from someone who referred to me as a "dumb ass
piece of shit." Even in your last paragraph you disrespect me. As far as
confrontational, I just expect that if someone makes a statement, they are able
to back it up.
And most of your posts are "LEAVE ME ALONE IM OUTTA HERE...posts..but cha keep
coming back for more.....
>Bullpucky..........what freakin' community?.......I have NOTHING in
>common with fetishistic masturbators, maybe you do, I don't.
HMM...then why participate in groups like Transadvocacy or in this newsgroup?
<<>I notice it's almost always the CD's and TV's and never-op
>trans-whatevers that prattle on and on and on about "community" and piss
>and moan endlessly that women of transsexual experience what nothing to
>do with it by and large. We don't need no stinkin' cds. public has shown over
and over and polls confirm and even Pat,
>biblethumping Robertson! gets the basic idea that transsexuality is a
>prenatal birth condition.
>Transsexuals have a social problem, not a psychological one. Those with
>psychological needs usually have them spring from the social sources.
>Crossdressers are the ones who demonstrate an actual psycho-sexual
>disorder..........fetishism.
Your elitist attitude is unfortunate.
><<Even a first year psych student can grasp this........why can't the so
>called "community'?......Because there IS NO COMMUNITY, just fetishists
>attempting to coattail legimacy on folks with a medical condition!>>
COATTAIL? OMG...... so you dont believe it was wrong for Winn Dixie to fire Mr
Oiler? You don't believe that he needs legislation to protect him? This
shouldn't be about what is medical and what's not, but about basic freedom.
Freedom to live as you are. To be respected for your work and have your
employment be based on the content of your work, not how you live your life.
>Your "co-host" cannot even grasp the simple idea that transition doesn't
>mean you out yourself all over the place like every time you try to get
>a job. Do that and you'll never get a job.
Hmm...I have a job....they know..they are cool with it...but you see I have
technical skills that I trained for before my transition.
<<You two are so out of touch with reality as a trans-woman in Amerika there is
no common basis for discussion.>>
So Cathy Platine is the norm of trans-women?
<<Numbers my arse!..............I do NOT need to ally with crossdressing
>men to get civil rights, merely get education to those with power.>>
LOL....maybe you could start a new advocacy only for post op ts'es and pre op
ts'es..and another for transgenderists,..and another for non-ops....... See how
much political clout you'd carry.
<<>whatever.........nice dismissal of the rights of women of transsexual
>experience to have their own damn identities........for that's what it
>boils down to.>>
Everyone is entitled to their own identity....regardless of "what" they are.
Take the homosexual community as an example. Do they have the "Nelly Queen
Action Committee? No...they identify as a group....but that group is diverse.
It boils down to what will get us our rights, politically. How the train gets
there..and whos on that train really doesn't matter, as long as it makes it to
the station.
<<Crying foul when someone highjacks your organization while it's being born is
hardly "flaming".........heated discussions aren't flames.>>
When someone hijacks "your" organization? Was there some ownership to it? Is
this just a pissing contest because someone lost control of an organization?
<<>Outside of their tight
>little circle, hardly anyone even knows or cares they exist.>>
And why should you? Your getting out of all the groups and the politics, right?
Why do you continue to post or even participate in this "community" full of
masturbators and fetishists?
I figure that Cathy will respond with more of the same accusations that she
cannot substantiate, so she will smear me even further. But I'm getting used to
it.
Marti
There is no good in arguing with the inevitable. The only argument available
with an east wind is to put on your overcoat.- James Russell Lowell
Marti Abernathey is a Co-host on TSR Live! TSR Live can be heard in rebroadcast
at http://www.trans-sisterradio.com . To find the latest transgender news, get
TG wire @ http://www.transadvocate.com.
Listen to TSR LIVE! Thursday Nights, 8-10 eastern.
http://www.trans-sisterradio.com . Visit http://www.transadvocate.com for an
unmoderated messageboard.
TransAdvocate.com and check out the new messageboard.
http://www.transadvocate.com .
d...@l0ck.invalid
> Hmm...I have a job....they know..they are cool with it...but you see I have
> technical skills that I trained for before my transition.
What DO you do for work ?
...And why do you assume that others go around telling everyone they
are TS ? I don't. It's not pertainant to my work, AT ALL. What is
pertainant is my skills.
What DO you do for work ?
Curious Reader
Marti Abernathy
>
>What DO you do for work ?
>
Listen to TSR LIVE! Thursday Nights, 8-10 eastern.
d...@l0ck.invalid
> xray tech
>>
>>What DO you do for work ?
>>
Do you work as a woman, a TG or a man ?
Curious Readers want to know
ObedientFemme
>in reading someone? Well, maybe more pathetic than funny.
Actually, if the individual was that obvious, perhaps it could be perceived as
an act of kindness.
I mean some people are frightfully obvious. No?
Caillean McMahon
Helen Detroit wrote:
>
> On Sat, 15 Jun 2002 13:28:21 -0400, Caillean McMahon
> <caill...@yahoo.com> burbled:
>
> >
> >
> >Last night I went out to a coffee house to hear some music.
> >There was a guitarist playing, and she was very good, we even chatted a
> >bit.
> >
> >A transvestite connected with the local PFLAG orginization came up to my
> >table while I was chatting with the Guitarist during her break and
> >interrupted to get her to play at a PFLAG fundraiser.
> >
> >The guitarist asked her how she was involved in PFLAG
> >
> >She said "I am a transsexual just like her(gesturing to me)"
>
> Isn't it funny how people just HAVE to demonstrate how clever they are
> in reading someone? Well, maybe more pathetic than funny. That was
> very rude and insensitive. Actually, in a public place not normally
> connected to the TG/TS world, I don't even let on to grrls that I have
> read them, whether I am dressed or not. If they choose not to wear
> their TS status like a chip on their shoulder for all the world to
> see, then it is intrusive and impolite to bring it up in most
> circumstances, certainly when/where others can overhear.
>
> Maybe the local PFFLAG chapter would like to know that someone is
> soliciting help in their name in such an offensive manner. This
> reflects poorly on that organization.
>
This was not a case of reading me; se knows me casually through a mutual
aquaintance.
Caillean
> >I left five minutes later.
> >
> >I prefer to out myself, thank you, if it is to be done, and not be outed
> >in such a fashion that I would be assicoated as the same as an
> >outrageously dressed person with who is clearly in drag. This isn't
> >meant as a put down, it is a preference for me. I try to move very
> >unobtrusively.
> >
> >Caillean
>
> Kisses and Tickles
> Helen Detroit
> Drag Queen Without a Catchy Slogan
> (except that one)
> www.geocities.com/ilovemycorset
Cathryn Platine
>
> My Dear Cathy,
>
> I was only pointing your errors because of comments from you calling people
> "illiterate" and calling others "stupid." I don't always spellcheck
> everything...and do make spelling errors at times. But I also have never called
> anyone a "stupid piece of shit."
>
> Cathy, I pity you. You seem very angry and bitter. Its a pity that someone with
> as much drive and spirit doesn't put it to better use than spewing venom.
>
I called you a stupid piece of shit because that's what you act like. I
call 'em like I see 'em.
You never fail to take "shots" at me in public forum and yet, because
you occasionally say something somewhat respectful, expect me to ignore
the balance. The stupid piece of shit comment was AFTER you attempted
to insult me by claiming my posts come back from your spell checker full
of spelling and grammatical errors in answer to my observation that most
so called activists are severely undereducated in the classical sense.
You proved my point by failing to note that not every spelling endorsed
by Gates and company is the only acceptable spelling. Once again, I
spent part of my 'yute' (brooklynese for youth) in India and tend to mix
British and Amer spellings so when I do bother to spell check (some of
us actually LEARNED spelling and grammar in grammar school), I use the
british setting. I also have to "teach" my spell checker all the
time...........it's vocabulary is severely limited, like yours.
As for "leaving", I did............a bellyful of yours and other
trans-wannabe crap was enough. You TG's or whatevers the fuck you are
attempt over and over to browbeat the hell out of those of us who don't
buy into your stupid "crossdressers love transsexuals" community
ideal. Way to entice us into the fold! Know what the street girls
call crossdressers?.............johns.
I left the last yahoogroup besides the one local one last week, now I'm
putting you in the twit filter on my newsgroups.........yuck it up to
your internut radio audience, I'll hear and read your crap no more.
Pauline
>
>
> Helen Detroit wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 15 Jun 2002 13:28:21 -0400, Caillean McMahon
> > <caill...@yahoo.com> burbled:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >Last night I went out to a coffee house to hear some music.
> > >There was a guitarist playing, and she was very good, we even chatted a
> > >bit.
> > >
> > >A transvestite connected with the local PFLAG orginization came up to
my
> > >table while I was chatting with the Guitarist during her break and
> > >interrupted to get her to play at a PFLAG fundraiser.
> > >
> > >The guitarist asked her how she was involved in PFLAG
> > >
> > >She said "I am a transsexual just like her(gesturing to me)"
***************************************************************
Reply: Ah No, I'm a woman with manors. not like you.
*********************************************************8
June Hingle
> aquaintance.
> Caillean
Stop expecting people to pamper you every time you enter into another
scuffle! You seem to put yourself into predicaments that are not
necessary. It wasn't that other person who blew your cover, it was
"you" being in a place where the inevitable was just waiting to
happen. If you are the "womyn" that you say you are and you are now
disassociating yourself from the TG community and with those types
whom you "used to" keep company with, then move on. If you are going
to feel insulted because of a previous connection to being TG/TS or
whatever then stop your belly-aching and find another playground to
play in.
If you've crossed a line in your transition and intend to fully
transition out of the TG world, then just do it! You don't need
sympathy, you need to grow up.
June Hingle
http://junehingle.freehomepage.com/index.htm
*********************************************
Caillean McMahon
June;
I am just peeved at being outed without my permission in public. Not
a big deal.
Might I respectfully ask why you are a bit miffed with me? I only shared
it because I thought it might hep both me and others, as well as getting
what ought to have been an on-topic discussion going. I thougt that this
type of discussion, handling outing, etc, might be better than the
on-going flame wars. Looking at from the perspective that I just
described, would you agree?
Caillean
> http://junehingle.freehomepage.com/index.htm
> *********************************************
Marti Abernathy
>you occasionally say something somewhat respectful, expect me to ignore
>the balance.>>
Shots? Honey, you havent responded to ONE thing I have posted..just name
calling. I, on the other hand have not called you one name.... You disrespect
me, and dont address what I post, but attack me verbally.
<< The stupid piece of shit comment was AFTER you attempted
>to insult me by claiming my posts come back from your spell checker full
>of spelling and grammatical errors in answer to my observation that most
>so called activists are severely undereducated in the classical sense.>>
Are you classically educated? You seem to stick your nose up at the education
of other Trans folk (like that matters one Iotta ).
<<>As for "leaving", I did............a bellyful of yours and other
>trans-wannabe crap was enough. You TG's or whatevers the fuck you are
>attempt over and over to browbeat the hell out of those of us who don't
>buy into your stupid "crossdressers love transsexuals" community
>ideal. Way to entice us into the fold! Know what the street girls
>call crossdressers?.............johns.>>
While calling someone elses ideas stupid is an easy way to smear, taking a poll
of hookers is not what I would call good polling.
I hope your life is a happy one Cathy.
Marti
>I left the last yahoogroup besides the one local one last week, now I'm
>putting you in the twit filter on my newsgroups.........yuck it up to
>your internut radio audience, I'll hear and read your crap no more.
>--
> Cathy Platine
> @)-'--.--'
>"Leading transies is like trying to herd cats. You get nowhere and just
>annoy the cats."
>
>http://centralhouse.gallae.com
>
>
>
Listen to TSR LIVE! Thursday Nights, 8-10 eastern.
Cathryn Platine
I see, if you don't wish to be outted against your will, you must
immediately leave any area entered by a crossdresser/transgenderist?
What's wrong with this picture?............. and the "TG" crowd
continues to wonder why women of transsexual pasts wish to
disassociate?......duh!
Marina Brown
> the balance. The stupid piece of shit comment was AFTER you attempted
> to insult me by claiming my posts come back from your spell checker full
> of spelling and grammatical errors in answer to my observation that most
> so called activists are severely undereducated in the classical sense.
> You proved my point by failing to note that not every spelling endorsed
> by Gates and company is the only acceptable spelling.
Cathy:
In working with my father, an award winning author, i have seen
Micro$oft's grammar checker come up with some outrageous grammer
corrections. Unfortunatly all too many people listent to the Borg's
grammer check and various Microsoftism's are becoming today's grammer.
I sometimes wish the english language had an equivalent to the French
Academy to prevent the language from being muddied in this manner.
Marina Brown
Marina Brown
> Are you classically educated? You seem to stick your nose up at the education
> of other Trans folk (like that matters one Iotta ).
Marti:
I grew up around University of Chicago educated intellectuals. I have
only found 2 people who were in the Tranz political movement who could
manage to even understand the references that were common in their everyday
talk. Those people are Chelsea Goodwin and Cathy Platine.
I leave Sarah Fox and Rebecca Kastle out of that list because they seem
to have only been on the sidelines of the movement as of late.
The education people get in business or technical school in the US does
not even pass for an education to people from European Universities
or good liberal arts schools.
Here on the newsgroups we USED to have more well educated people before
the Flame war.
Marina Brown
Marti Abernathy
>only found 2 people who were in the Tranz political movement who could
>manage to even understand the references that were common in their everyday
>talk. Those people are Chelsea Goodwin and Cathy Platine.
>
>I leave Sarah Fox and Rebecca Kastle out of that list because they seem
>to have only been on the sidelines of the movement as of late.
>
>The education people get in business or technical school in the US does
>not even pass for an education to people from European Universities
>or good liberal arts schools.
>
>Here on the newsgroups we USED to have more well educated people before
>the Flame war.
>
> Marina Brown
Marina, if you look back at previous posts, it is your friend that has fanned
the flames of this war, with disparaging comments such as calling me a piece of
shit, calling me by names I don't identify with, and calling others uneducated
... idiots ... and on and on. If you do a search on my name on google, see if
you come up with me name calling. To me it is SOOO 4th grade...and doesn't
change anything.
If Cathy is well educated, her words do not show it here on the newsgroup. They
are filled with anger, bigotry, and hate. She doesn't debate, but flames others
to get her point across. Did your "educated intellectuals " use that form of
debate?
I am not an intellectual. But I do believe that you should be able to
intelligently be able to represent your ideas and viewpoints without resorting
spewing hatred, and disgust.
Marti
d...@l0ck.invalid
Marti:
Why don't you just filter Cathy out. I suggest that Cathy
filter you out. Would that be fair ? It would save us all a lot
of unnneded posts. A mutual <PLONK> for everyone's benefit ;-)
Reader
Dana Wolf
<rmcr...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 16 Jun 2002 15:33:35 GMT, "Pauline" <PMB...@attbi.com>
>burbled:
>
>>***************************************************************
>>
>>Reply: Ah No, I'm a woman with manors. not like you.
>>
>>*********************************************************8
>
>Yes indeed. Letting her know that you own more than one manor should
>take all the wind out of her sails. :o\
>
>
>Kisses and Tickles
>Helen Detroit
>Drag Queen
Enough said, Look at where this is being crossposted to,
alt.support.srs,soc.support.transgendered,alt.transgendered,soc.support.transgendered
Lets not feed toh trolls with anther intergroup bickerfest.'
Dana
"It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or
religion will legislate its creed into law if
it acquires the political power to do so, and
will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting
all education to seize early the minds of the young,
and by killing, locking up, or driving underground
all heretics."
RA Heinlein, postscript to the collection of stories
released under the title "Revolt in 2100"
Caillean McMahon
That is so very true. Our language is becoming a tad colourless and
standardized to deal with the "exacting taskmaster" that is
word(im)perfect. Grammar checks and spell checks are useful tools, but I
refuse to mindlessly submit to a software academic dominatrix.
hugs;
Caillean
Pauline
now bring it to America and see it change.
Take it to Australia and watch it go again.
I conceder English a second language, have no Idea what a first would be,
maybe American.
Pauline
"Caillean McMahon" <caill...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3D0D60DB...@yahoo.com...
Marti Abernathy
is a good thing. I am not just arguing for the sake of it....I truly hold no
malice against Cathy or RAD, even though I am held in high distain in both
cases. Life is about learning...with every post, I learn something about
dealing with others, and myself.
David Weinshenker
> Our language is becoming a tad colourless and
> standardized to deal with the "exacting taskmaster" that is
> word(im)perfect. Grammar checks and spell checks are useful tools, but I
> refuse to mindlessly submit to a software academic dominatrix.
Spell and grammar checkers are useful tools, perhaps, for
those who don't need them... allowed to blindly "correct"
everything, they will magically amplify minor letter choice
errors into word choice errors that completely garble the
meaning of the text, much more so than the original error
would have.
"That's not what I meant...
But it's spelled so perfectly!
Spell check is like that."
-dave w
Caillean McMahon
Julie wrote:
>
> X-No-Archive: YES
>
> "Cathryn Platine" <evilest_Trans...@radicalbitch.com> wrote in
> message news:3D0D0521...@radicalbitch.com...
> > June Hingle wrote:
> > > If you've crossed a line in your transition and intend to fully
> > > transition out of the TG world, then just do it! You don't need
> > > sympathy, you need to grow up.
> >
> > I see, if you don't wish to be outted against your will, you must
> > immediately leave any area entered by a crossdresser/transgenderist?
>
> I'm not sure where this is going. I read it as June suggesting
> that if one has "fully transitioned" and is "just another woman"
> that one needs to stop hanging out in places where "trannies"
> are known to hang out.
>
> Why? Is this written in stone somewhere?
>
> I think there are three different things going on. The first is
> that some people who change sex are ashamed or embarassed
> to be known to have changed sex. I don't think that's an
> entirely healthy attitude. The second is that some people make
> judgements about others just because they've changed sex,
> and that doesn't seem all that healthy either. The third is that
> some people are just plain idiots about sex changlings. Not
> mean, in the cruel or violent or abusive sense, but rude or
> impolite or inappropriate out of ignorance.
>
> In short, I think the most common reasons to avoid being
> "known" as a trannie are things that we, as a society, need to
> fix anyway.
>
> > What's wrong with this picture?............. and the "TG" crowd
> > continues to wonder why women of transsexual pasts wish to
> > disassociate?......duh!
>
> The reason I avoid the "TG crowd" is because I didn't hang
> with them before transition. I also don't associate with people
> on golf courses, at Knights of Columbus meetings, or in
> perfectly good airplanes they're about to jump out of.
>
> -- Julie.
To be clear to some of the responders:
I met the person who outed me only once in my life, transpeople do not
hang out at the coffeehouse I was at(primarily goths and Lesbians).
I knew this person only because a year ago someone else that I was
speaking to introduced us. I do not hang out with trans-people except
for one other pre-op whom I see occasionally for an hour or two. I do
not go to the meetings or social functions held for trans-people here.
There is in fact only one other SRS-tracked transsexual in the area.
We joked, when they extended protections to transsexuals as far as
discrimination, that they checked with docs to see how many it impacted
and approved it because out of 350,000 people there are just us two.
(I have coffee with the other pre-op trans about once every week or
two.)
Caillean
Caillean
Kaos
<mar...@fire.webcoves.org> wrote:
>The education people get in business or technical school in the US does
>not even pass for an education to people from European Universities
>or good liberal arts schools.
I see there's obviously not enough hatred going around here lately.
Why else drift the thread into Intellectual Elitism?
Go ask the science or engineering students of any university (my god,
science at university what a shocker!!!) what they think of the
liberal arts if you really want a flame war. Otherwise, let's drop
this particular tangent.
--
"THE HAMSTERS! DEAR BOB IN HEAVEN,
MAKE ME STOP THINKING ABOUT THE HAMSTERS!"
- Will, "Fans"
Kaos
<caill...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>To be clear to some of the responders:
>I met the person who outed me only once in my life, transpeople do not
>hang out at the coffeehouse I was at(primarily goths and Lesbians).
Unless your local goth community is more akin to the T0N fanclub, you
don't belong there anyway.
Goths are known for being 'outrageously dressed person(s),' with a
tendency towards androgynous appearance; and as you've already stated
a distaste for being associated with such people, you really shouldn't
be hanging around in places where they do.