Lurker Decloaks (film at 11): Cadfael51
Cadfael51
I've been a frequent lurker here for about two months. This is sort of a
confession/autobiography. It's also very long. I'm not sure exactly
what compels me to do this. I'm not looking to be saved or for
absolution. Maybe just someone to understand. My name is Neil. I'm 47,
male, divorced 15 years. I have 3 daughters and 1 grandson. I'm very
overweight ("circumferentially challenged" or "industrial-sized"), live
very alone in Virginia, introverted (in MBTI terms I'm an INFx), bookish,
guitarist (blues/rock, hard rock, some folk). I'm a computer programmer,
but have difficulty getting the better paying jobs because I lack a
degree and also because I miss a lot of work due to a combination (I
don't know what proportion) of lack of discipline and BPD. Believe in
the healing power of nature but have yet to act on that belief. Need
friends badly, but don't really think I know how to do that.
I was taken to the doctor in 1963...the doctor told my mother that I'd
grow out of wanting to be by myself, reading and sleeping a lot (he was
wrong...I was pretty sick). Started taking drugs in 1967...mostly
marijuana and hashish...but also acid and mescaline. Dropped out of high
school three years running. Began drinking in 1970. Drafted into Army
in 1971, served in U.S. and Germany...delivered myself in the worst
condition possible to the military each day...increasing alcohol
consumption, massive hashish consumption and began my love affair with
methamphetamine. It made me feel whole, and that I was valuable...I
could socialize...I was able to DO things. Met young German woman who
later became my wife. Got out of Army in '73, got a job doing clerical
work with the Fed. Gov't, got married, stopped drugs for a
while...started again, found local amphetamine source, was not
emotionally available for my wife, became progressively more
withdrawn...she began a series of extramarital affairs. I struck her
once when she told me she'd been out screwing someone I had thought a
friend of mine. Marriage finally disintegrated...she went home.
I kept partying.
Met future wife #2 at the office...she had a 2 year old daughter. Mary
became pregnant, we got married even though I was growing more and more
uncomfortable with how critical she was. Problems with anger got
worse...I dislocated her daughter's arm once when I was angry...punched
wife in the stomach when she was about 6 months pregnant. Later wound up
taking about 6 weeks off from work due to nervous breakdown after
alcohol/Dalmane binge. Diagnosed as unipolar...treatment not supported
by my wife ("when did she get HER time")...I always thought it was
because she wanted to be special in the same way that depression made ME
special. I was in no position to give her what she needed (I don't think
I even understood what that was)...I couldn't take her being constantly
on my case so I stopped drug therapy.
Went back to work...things kept getting worse. We lived well beyond our
means...if we ran short, she get more from her parents, then criticize me
for not being able to provide. Sometimes I would swear that she was
egging me on, pushing my buttons so that I'd hit her, which is what she'd
been used to when she was growing up. We'd have frequent screaming
matches, often with me just trying to push her away, but occasionally I
would twist her arm almost to breaking or slap her. She gave as good as
she got. I and I alone am responsible for my attempts to harm her. I
took to drinking until I passed out at night, I'd hide in the bathroom
with the door locked, the light out and the water and exhaust fan
running...I just wanted to get away...
During one trial separation I went to talk to her in the parking lot
after work and found her with another man. I'm told I tried to run them
down, but I don't remember...it wouldn't surprise me. I got out of the
car, got severely beaten (I was only effective against women and
children). I went to a psych hospital the next time and signed myself in
for a month. I tried to "win" my wife back during this time.
Unfortunately...I succeeded. Again, all therapy stopped. We got back
together and then had our youngest daughter. She didn't bring us any
closer together...things continued the same.
Finally, on Valentine's Day 1985 she took the kids with her to her
parents...the last separation. I was initially relieved, but as the
first weeks went by, I became more and more frightened. I had no
identity of my own, only what was reflected from others. She was seeing
a co=worker of mine at the office (another supposed "friend" of mine),
they moved in together. I went to to work every day, but I was pretty
useless...I started drug and talk therapy. I stopped drinking and
drugging...I started to learn about myself. I had a brief affair with a
married woman in 1986. She left her husband, ostensibly for me, but
eventually went back to him.
I was, and continue to be (though not so much now), horribly ashamed of
myself...
I began to eat (and eat and eat)...I couldn't seem to stop. I now weigh
about 360 lbs (I'm 5'-10"). I don't know if I eat to make my self
unattractive so that I can protect women from me, protect me from women
or just to fill what seems to be a hollow space in my chest...probably a
combination. I haven't dated since 1986. Part of me wants to share my
life with a companion, but I don't know if I'm really qualified. Most of
my friends are younger women (no male friends)...I suppose I'm the
quintessential non-threatening male. The few woman I did approach always
responded with the dreaded, "But I don't like you that way...I think of
you like my brother...can't we be friends?" So I have several friends,
but no one to really hang out with since they're all married or involved.
No one I can call in the middle of the night because I'm afraid or alone.
I don't if I'd call anyway...I always feel like I'm bothering people when
I'm that depressed.
I was (finally) correctly diagnosed as BP not otherwise covered (then
Atypical Bipolar) in '93 after a new pdoc figured out that my
antidepressants were making me hypomanic. I've now spent six years
trying to help pdocs fine tune the med mix...things'll work for a while,
then stop. I quit psychotherapy about a year ago because I felt like I'd
spent 13 years working on what was wrong with me and I wanted to spend
some time paying attention to what was RIGHT about me. I was pursuing an
interest in herbalism and nature, getting out, meeting people with common
interests. It was going along pretty well (I even lost about 60 lbs)
before ex-wife #2 threw my middle daughter with her new baby and husband
out of her house. I took them in (even though my ex yelled at me, like I
was somehow at fault, when I went to get their things), told them they
could stay for four months while they put together enough money to start
out on their own, that hubby had to get a job. It went pretty
well...they held up their end of the bargain (except they stayed for six
months). I had a good time getting to know my middle daughter, and I
think she enjoyed getting to know me without her mother's continuing
subtext that I was a wretched human being who'd wrecked her life. It was
really neat getting to watch my grandson close up, too. I wasn't quite
as fond of my son-in-law since he has some character traits that irritate
me no end (probably reflections of things I don't like about myself), but
he's not a bad guy...he works pretty hard but doesn't help my daughter
too much with the baby. But the close quarters got to me and I began to
isolate...eat, watch TV and work on the computer in my room. I also
began overeating again, heavy grazing on all the stuff I hadn't had
around the place before they came. By the time they moved out, I'd
gained all my weight back, lost a significant amount of my self-
confidence and then got blind-sided by the strange feeling that was like
losing my family again. I even got drunk again (twice) after not
drinking for 14 years, but I've since lost the desire for that. I'm kind
of angry with myself for losing my "balance" so easily, though
intellectually I think I understand it.
I'm currently taking:
Antidepressant Effexor XR 225 mg after breakfast
Mood stabilizer Depakote 750 mg after dinner
Sleep aid Trazodone 50-150 mg before bedtime
The Depakote seems to be working pretty well. My new pdoc just changed
me over to Effexor XR from plain old Effexor (150 mg) a week ago due to
what he says is most likely a "breakthrough" depression (I haven't looked
up what that means yet). He's talking about possibly using an
amphetamine as an antidepressant as well as for appetite suppression.
I'm so large now that I've outgrown almost all of my clothes. I breathe
hard when I roll over in bed at night. I just know that I'm desperately
lonely and that I need people. I tried the BP Cafe, but I couldn't keep
up with the badinage, especially the flirting. I love getting hugs but
there's no one around to hug me. The computer has no arms. The only
time I've been touched in 2-3 months, other than handshakes, is when I
get my haircut.
I seem to keep on falling down and getting up to take a few more halting
steps on my Way guided by the Creator and the spirits of all that are. I
strive to be the kind of person I'd be honored to call a friend. I tend
to see everything in terms of relationships, even to my relationship with
BPD.
Sorry for the length of this, but somehow I feel better having just done
it. And although I'd be thankful if I gain a new friend through this
(someone I could share the triumphs great and small with and how damn
BADLY I feel sometimes) I suppose I'll be happy if someone even makes it
to this point.
Blessings...
--
==============================================
Peculiar travel suggestions are dancing
lessons from God. - Bokonon
==============================================
Neil Dumont / ndu...@earthlink.gov
(replace gov with net)
Xoticsr us
That, my friend is a gripping and gritty story. I am particularly impressed by
your ability to admit your weaknesses, despite the stigmas surrounding many of
them. To have overcome such hardship and be able to so clearly see your part
in the saga, is amazing. While I have never heard a story so inclusive of
detail, your story resonates with the many other bipolar tales I have heard. I
hope you can find solace in the fact that non of your experience seems the
slightest bit out of place, when held in the light of the effects of bipolar
disorder. Putting your past mistakes behind you seems to be the best policy
(It works for me). :-)
Your strength has seen you through some really tough times. Now you have joined
in with this newsgroup. It is filled with people who will gladly call you
friend. We are all riding this "rollercoaster from hell" together.
Sharing yourself on this group is not only good for you, but beneficial to all.
We learn from each other while also commiserating.
Welcome.
Your friend on the rollercoaster from hell,
Shawn
Bob )
i am glad that you shared your history with us. it helps me to know you
better and i hope it puts you at ease to tell. i am sorry that you did not
feel at ease in the cafe. we can get a little carried away with flirting
and jokes when we dont want to deal with our hurt. i hope youll come back
and join us. we do stop joking and goofing off when someone needs us to be
there for them. just ask and we'll be there, cad. i found your opus here to
be truly a brave and heartfelt piece of work. and i made it all the way
thru. ;-)
bob aka spuds...the class clown...not laughing now.
-**** Posted from remarQ, Discussions Start Here(tm) ****-
http://www.remarq.com/ - Host to the the World's Discussions & Usenet
reese
Cadfael51 > Hello Everyone,
>
> I've been a frequent lurker here for about two months. This is sort of a
> confession/autobiography. It's also very long. I'm not sure exactly
> what compels me to do this. I'm not looking to be saved or for
> absolution. Maybe just someone to understand.
Dear Neil,
I just wanted to let you know I read your post-very touching. I don't know
what to say and have little time (off to work hi ho hi ho) but....
Keep writing and become a (visable) part of this group. I know it's not the
same as IRL, but it helps. Cyber-hugs are better than none, I guess.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Neil ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Take care,
Amy
Lynda
Hi Neil,
Welcome to ASDM. I am glad you are here with us.
> I've been a frequent lurker here for about two months. This is sort of a
> confession/autobiography. It's also very long. I'm not sure exactly what
> compels me to do this. I'm not looking to be saved or for absolution.
> Maybe just someone to understand. My name is Neil. I'm 47, male, divorced
> 15 years. I have 3 daughters and 1 grandson. I'm very overweight
> ("circumferentially challenged" or "industrial-sized"),
LOL! Sense of humor...that's good!
> live very alone in Virginia, introverted (in MBTI terms I'm an INFx),
What is MBTI and INFx?
>bookish, > guitarist (blues/rock, hard rock, some folk). I'm a
>computer programmer, > but have difficulty getting the >better paying
>jobs because I lack a > degree and also because I miss a lot of work
due
>to a combination (I > don't know what proportion) of lack of discipline
>and BPD. Believe in > the healing power of nature but have yet to act
>on that belief. Need > friends badly, but don't really think I know
how
>to do that.
Reaching out to others is often hard. A lack of trust maybe. I am a
social person...used to be anyway but I am fast becoming a recluse.
> I was taken to the doctor in 1963...the doctor told my mother that I'd
> grow out of wanting to be by myself, reading and sleeping a lot (he was
> wrong...I was pretty sick). Started taking drugs in 1967...mostly
> marijuana and hashish...but also acid and mescaline.
Flashbacks from LSD can be very scary. Do you experience those?
> Dropped out of high school three years running. Began drinking in 1970.
> Drafted into Army in 1971, served in U.S. and Germany...delivered myself
> in the worst condition possible to the military each day...increasing
> alcohol consumption, massive hashish consumption and began my love affair
> with methamphetamine. It made me feel whole, and that I was valuable...I
> could socialize...I was able to DO things. Met young German woman who
> later became my wife. Got out of Army in '73, got a job doing clerical
> work with the Fed. Gov't, got married, stopped drugs for a while...started
> again, found local amphetamine source, was not emotionally available for
> my wife, became progressively more withdrawn...she began a series of
> extramarital affairs. I struck her once when she told me she'd been out
> screwing someone I had thought a friend of mine. Marriage finally
> disintegrated...she went home.
Sigh...drugs and alcohol can ruin more lives...I am a recovering drunk.
Luckily my spouse has stuck by me for 32 years but ut has been a
challenging and rocky road.
> I kept partying.
>
> Met future wife #2 at the office...she had a 2 year old daughter. Mary
> became pregnant, we got married even though I was growing more and more
> uncomfortable with how critical she was. Problems with anger got
> worse...I dislocated her daughter's arm once when I was angry...punched
> wife in the stomach when she was about 6 months pregnant.
Okay..this is a touchy subject here. I know that it has to be difficult
for you to share this.
>Later wound up taking about 6 weeks off from work due to nervous
>breakdown after alcohol/Dalmane binge. Diagnosed as
>unipolar...treatment not supported by my wife ("when did she get HER
>time")...I always thought it was because she wanted to be special in
>the same way that depression made ME special. I was in no position to
>give her what she needed (I don't think I even understood what that
>was)...I couldn't take her being constantly on my case so I stopped
>drug therapy.
What were you taking?
> Went back to work...things kept getting worse. We lived well beyond our
> means...if we ran short, she get more from her parents, then criticize me
> for not being able to provide. Sometimes I would swear that she was
> egging me on, pushing my buttons so that I'd hit her, which is what she'd
> been used to when she was growing up. We'd have frequent screaming
> matches, often with me just trying to push her away, but occasionally I
> would twist her arm almost to breaking or slap her. She gave as good as
> she got. I and I alone am responsible for my attempts to harm her. I
> took to drinking until I passed out at night, I'd hide in the bathroom
> with the door locked, the light out and the water and exhaust fan
> running...I just wanted to get away...
Escape through alcohol...I did it too.
> During one trial separation I went to talk to her in the parking lot after
> work and found her with another man. I'm told I tried to run them down,
> but I don't remember...it wouldn't surprise me. I got out of the car, got
> severely beaten (I was only effective against women and children). I went
> to a psych hospital the next time and signed myself in for a month. I
> tried to "win" my wife back during this time. Unfortunately...I succeeded.
> Again, all therapy stopped. We got back together and then had our
> youngest daughter. She didn't bring us any closer together...things
> continued the same.
Same old, same old...nothing changes wh3en we do not receive the
appropriate help.
> Finally, on Valentine's Day 1985 she took the kids with her to her
> parents...the last separation. I was initially relieved, but as the first
> weeks went by, I became more and more frightened. I had no identity of my
> own, only what was reflected from others. She was seeing a co=worker of
> mine at the office (another supposed "friend" of mine), they moved in
> together. I went to to work every day, but I was pretty useless...I
> started drug and talk therapy. I stopped drinking and drugging...I
> started to learn about myself. I had a brief affair with a married woman
> in 1986. She left her husband, ostensibly for me, but eventually went
> back to him.
>
> I was, and continue to be (though not so much now), horribly ashamed of
> myself...
Shame is counterproductive...so I am told. The past is done. You only
have today. And today you are a different person.
> I began to eat (and eat and eat)...I couldn't seem to stop. I now weigh
> about 360 lbs (I'm 5'-10"). I don't know if I eat to make my self
> unattractive so that I can protect women from me, protect me from women or
> just to fill what seems to be a hollow space in my chest...probably a
> combination. I haven't dated since 1986. Part of me wants to share my
> life with a companion, but I don't know if I'm really qualified. Most of
> my friends are younger women (no male friends)...I suppose I'm the
> quintessential non-threatening male. The few woman I did approach always
> responded with the dreaded, "But I don't like you that way...I think of
> you like my brother...can't we be friends?" So I have several friends,
> but no one to really hang out with since they're all married or involved.
> No one I can call in the middle of the night because I'm afraid or alone.
> I don't if I'd call anyway...I always feel like I'm bothering people when
> I'm that depressed.
Well, you can post here and there is a chat room...the BP cafe.
The ADs often are used as adjuncts in a depression for one who has BP.
The MS drugs are rather good woth the manias but not so good with the
dpressions. have you shared with him your history with drugs and
amphetamines?
> I'm so large now that I've outgrown almost all of my clothes. I breathe
> hard when I roll over in bed at night. I just know that I'm desperately
> lonely and that I need people. I tried the BP Cafe, but I couldn't keep
> up with the badinage, especially the flirting. I love getting hugs but
> there's no one around to hug me. The computer has no arms. The only time
> I've been touched in 2-3 months, other than handshakes, is when I get my
> haircut.
>
> I seem to keep on falling down and getting up to take a few more halting
> steps on my Way guided by the Creator and the spirits of all that are. I
> strive to be the kind of person I'd be honored to call a friend. I tend to
> see everything in terms of relationships, even to my relationship with
> BPD.
>
> Sorry for the length of this, but somehow I feel better having just done
> it.
I thank you for your honesty and courage to post your story.
>And although I'd be thankful if I gain a new friend through >this
>(someone I could share the triumphs great and small with and how damn
>BADLY I feel sometimes) I suppose I'll be happy if someone even makes
>it to this point.
Well...ta da, I made it to the end and others will also. And consider us
friends. We do care about one another here. Email me anytime. My correct
address is below my name.
If you manage to get the "right" combination of meds you will feel
better about yourself and life will become more "palatable". Talk to
your pdoc about Topomax which encourages weight loss. There us also
Neurontin and Lamictal. These are new MSs and many have found them to be
effective.
I wish you the very best my friend.
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Peace,
Lynda
(Lyn...@bigfoot.com)
Reach beyond your grasp!
DoomBloom
have the most powerful tool in the box brother, honesty...
It took me years to admit that I was my own problem and I stopped making
excuses for my violence and suicidal behavior. You have the hard part down.
Good luck man...
write anytime
greg
Gandalf
|male, divorced 15 years. I have 3 daughters and 1 grandson. I'm very
|overweight ("circumferentially challenged" or "industrial-sized"), live
|very alone in Virginia, introverted (in MBTI terms I'm an INFx), bookish,
|guitarist (blues/rock, hard rock, some folk). I'm a computer programmer,
Hello Neil, 47. My pseudonym is Gandalf, and I'm 40, divorced 3 years, no
children. I spent 10 years as a software engineer and in computer support.
Also about 50# overweight, although in my case it is pretty directly connected
to lithium and even more to the neuroleptics. I have been very frustrated
with medication-caused weight gain. You described binge eating/drinking, is
your weight gain partially due to the drugs?
At one point when I kept putting on pounds after getting out of the hospital,
I got angry enough to study myself scientifically for a month. Eating the
same amount, exact same number of calories, on the neuroleptics I was putting
on 2 pounds/week, then when went off the stelazine that same calorie intake
maintained me at the same weight. So each hospitalization (4 in last 7 years)
has earned me between 20-30 pounds. Usually I was able to lose it, but then
when pdoc put me on lithium so now can't lose it. Kindly, empathetic pdoc
says people don't lose weight on lithium they are lucky to stay the same. So
I share your "ARG!"
|Believe in the healing power of nature but have yet to act on that belief.
Need
|friends badly, but don't really think I know how to do that.
My strong encouragement for nature walks. If you can't manage that just
driving to a park and sitting quietly in the sunshine. I know of one fellow I
knew back in Berzerkeley who cured himself of one manic episode by spending
most of each day walking alone in nature. About friends -- your're reaching
out here, being honest, guess I think you DO know how to "do that."
|worse...I dislocated her daughter's arm once when I was angry...punched
|wife in the stomach when she was about 6 months pregnant.
If anything, this kind of behavior is what would scare me off friendship with
someone. What have you done to deal with these impulses? A fellow member of
my bipolar support group is just getting out of the state hospital after 3
months, and she claims that clozaril has really turned her around, and that
now she has a "gap", a period of time in between her impulse and her behavior,
which she says that she didn't have before. So now she can stop herself. She
wants to start an anger management group here. What have you done, is that
over for you?
|I was, and continue to be (though not so much now), horribly ashamed of
myself...
Do you recognize the difference between feeling "horribly ashamed" and having
sincere regret for your actions and trying to make amends for what you did
wrong? Being ashamed is another way of being violent, of mentally beating
someone up. That is very different from recognizing our errors and trying to
change our ways.
|I wanted to spend
|some time paying attention to what was RIGHT about me. I was pursuing an
|interest in herbalism and nature, getting out, meeting people with common
|interests.
All of those things are still waiting there for you.
|I'm so large now that I've outgrown almost all of my clothes. I breathe
|hard when I roll over in bed at night. I just know that I'm desperately
|lonely and that I need people.
It sounds to me that you are ready for a change and for relationship.
|I love getting hugs but
|there's no one around to hug me. The computer has no arms. The only
|time I've been touched in 2-3 months, other than handshakes, is when I
|get my haircut.
What about a pet? My dog Tigger is extremely loving and physically
affectionate. It is not the same, but it is very satisfying and that way I
don't have a big black gaping hole inside of myself that makes me do something
stupid or that I will regret. She doesn't fill the hole, but now I only have
a hole the size dug for a house foundation instead of the size of the
hole-that-ate-NYC.
|I'd be thankful if I gain a new friend through this
|(someone I could share the triumphs great and small with and how damn
|BADLY I feel sometimes) I suppose I'll be happy if someone even makes it
|to this point.
How about settling instead for a group of friends? :)
-Gandalf
*******************************************************
Creative minds have always been known
To survive any kind of bad training.
(Anna Freud, who survived her father Sir Sigmund)
*******************************************************
P.S. I'm back everybody! Good to see you all again!
bwe...@my-dejanews.com
be frustrating to go thru all kinds of stuff before bp is recognized and
started to be dealt with. (Then the frustration as the right combo of meds is
searched for.)
You were brave to share your story. I've shared things but there are things
I haven't shared yet. Some of them are similar to yours. I know it's
frustrating to always be angry but we cannot do much about it except to those
who don't need it... Anyway I'm glad my wife still loves and supports me
after all we've been through. She sees I'm changing. I hope so, for her
too.
Hang in there and stay with us.
bw
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Cadfael51
Thanks for your post...I was surprised that so many actually finished
mine. I did find that I couldn't just leap in at the cafe and ask for
help. I didn't want to bust up the party, and I have have little to no
experience expecting anyone to help me. I'll be back though, and I'll
try not to find a reason that I *don't* fit in (I've done that too much
in the past...kinda like a preemptive strike before others can do it).
I never thought of myself as particularly brave and it startles me that
other folks seem to think so. Cool...
Thanks again...see you at the Cafe...
Neil
--
jud...@bellsouth.net said...
: cadfael,
:
--
==============================================
If I knew what it meant, I wouldn't
have to dance it. - Isadora Duncan
==============================================
Neil Dumont / ndu...@NOSPAMearthlink.net
Greensong: http://www.greensong.com
Cadfael51
: Cadfael51 <ndu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
: Hi Neil,
:
: Welcome to ASDM. I am glad you are here with us.
Thank you for your welcoming words...I hope I can start to learn here how
to ask for help (and to believe that I deserve it) and how to begin to
learn to trust.
: What is MBTI and INFx?
MBTI is the Meyers-Briggs Temperament Indicator. This is a testing tool
developed by Isabel Briggs-Meyers based on, among other things, work on
archetypes developed by Carl Jung. The test may only be given by
licensees for a price, but a smaller, less accurate version of the test
is available at http://keirsey.com/ with additional information about the
sixteen personality types. Many people use the results of these tests to
categorize people, which I tend to think of as kinda dangerous, but I
like to use it as a kind of shorthand to help understand other people's
tendencies and a way to understand relationship dynamics.
: Flashbacks from LSD can be very scary. Do you experience those?
No, as far as I know I've never had one (thank God)...I'm disoriented
enough normally...<g>
Thank you for your kindness...I'll be watching out for you in the NGs.
Neil
--
==============================================
What is beautiful is not always good,
but what is good is always beautiful.
Cadfael51
Gandalf said...
: Hello Neil, 47. My pseudonym is Gandalf, and I'm 40, divorced 3 years, no
: children. I spent 10 years as a software engineer and in computer support.
Another cyberweenie...<g>?
: Also about 50# overweight, although in my case it is pretty directly connected
: to lithium and even more to the neuroleptics. I have been very frustrated
: with medication-caused weight gain. You described binge eating/drinking, is
: your weight gain partially due to the drugs?
: At one point when I kept putting on pounds after getting out of the hospital,
: I got angry enough to study myself scientifically for a month. Eating the
: same amount, exact same number of calories, on the neuroleptics I was putting
: on 2 pounds/week, then when went off the stelazine that same calorie intake
: maintained me at the same weight. So each hospitalization (4 in last 7 years)
: has earned me between 20-30 pounds. Usually I was able to lose it, but then
: when pdoc put me on lithium so now can't lose it. Kindly, empathetic pdoc
: says people don't lose weight on lithium they are lucky to stay the same. So
: I share your "ARG!"
I wouldn't be surprised if the meds somehow alter our metabolism. I know
that Depakote has a reputation for promoting weight gain. My pdoc
mentioned using an amphetamine as an antidepressant and appetite
suppressant, but he wants to try a few other things first...especially in
view of the abuse during my druggin' days. I want to ask him about
trying Topamax as a mood stabilizer, especially since it doesn't seem to
promote overeating.
: |worse...I dislocated her daughter's arm once when I was angry...punched
: |wife in the stomach when she was about 6 months pregnant.
: If anything, this kind of behavior is what would scare me off friendship with
: someone. What have you done to deal with these impulses? A fellow member of
: my bipolar support group is just getting out of the state hospital after 3
: months, and she claims that clozaril has really turned her around, and that
: now she has a "gap", a period of time in between her impulse and her behavior,
: which she says that she didn't have before. So now she can stop herself. She
: wants to start an anger management group here. What have you done, is that
: over for you?
It scares the shit out of ME! My favorite therapist believes that, with
the cessation of substance abuse and learning who I am and developing
better ways of dealing with my feelings and the people around me, that
I'm not very likely to revert to the violence of my past. But it's never
been really stress tested...I JUST DON'T KNOW. I don't know if I could
stand to lose the much improved opinion of myself that I've worked so
hard for.
: Do you recognize the difference between feeling "horribly ashamed" and having
: sincere regret for your actions and trying to make amends for what you did
: wrong? Being ashamed is another way of being violent, of mentally beating
: someone up. That is very different from recognizing our errors and trying to
: change our ways.
I vacillate between the two with my mood. When things are getting gray,
I become the center of my concern over these things and beat myself up
pretty bad...but mostly my focus is on my victims, as I believe it should
be. I have talked with all of my daughters and siblings about violence
and taking responsibility for our actions. I have apologized to each one
of them for any kind of violence I have done to them. I've been there to
listen to them when they needed someone to talk to, to help them out when
they thought they had no one else. I have tried to model humor, a
flexible response system and a view of them and others and the world that
celebrates the gifts unique to each. It hasn't always been
easy...there's been a lot of thought patterns to unlearn from physical
abuse from my Dad, abandonment by my mother and untreated years of BPD.
: What about a pet? My dog Tigger is extremely loving and physically
: affectionate. It is not the same, but it is very satisfying and that way I
: don't have a big black gaping hole inside of myself that makes me do something
: stupid or that I will regret. She doesn't fill the hole, but now I only have
: a hole the size dug for a house foundation instead of the size of the
: hole-that-ate-NYC.
:
: |I'd be thankful if I gain a new friend through this
: |(someone I could share the triumphs great and small with and how damn
: |BADLY I feel sometimes) I suppose I'll be happy if someone even makes it
: |to this point.
:
: How about settling instead for a group of friends? :)
I'd be honored to have you and others in these NGs as friends. I only
hope that you'll have patience with me while I learn what that means, and
try to store up the belief in my heart (it's already in my head) that I
deserve it.
Blessings,
Neil--
--
====================================================
Don't pray when it rains if you don't pray when
the sun shines. - Satchel Paige
====================================================
Cadfael51
understanding and compassion each of you has shown to someone who has a
hard time storing their own value in their heart (though it is in my
head). I wish I had the time to respond to each of you separately, but
instead I only posted followups to folks with specific questions, while I
hope that this'll suffice for everyone else.
As I mentioned to someone else, I would be honored to have you all as my
friends, and I only hope you'll have patience with me while I learn
exactly what that means.
Again...thanks...
Neil
--
==============================================
What is beautiful is not always good,
but what is good is always beautiful.
==============================================
reese
I love the meyers-briggs. I'm a INTJ (how's that for a great combination)
It does help understand people I think if you are familiar with the types.
I was so into it when I was in grad school I could type people I knew very
accurately. I never met another INTJ, all the people in my program were
nice happy ESFP's.....
But what's the x?
Again, I wanted to tell you I am glad you are de-lurking. And telling your
story IS brave....
Take care,
Amy
> : Hi Neil,
> :
> : Welcome to ASDM. I am glad you are here with us.
>
> Thank you for your welcoming words...I hope I can start to learn here how
> to ask for help (and to believe that I deserve it) and how to begin to
> learn to trust.
>
> : What is MBTI and INFx?
>
> MBTI is the Meyers-Briggs Temperament Indicator. This is a testing tool
> developed by Isabel Briggs-Meyers based on, among other things, work on
> archetypes developed by Carl Jung.
snip>
LaurieLoo
Welcome to the group. I have only been here for a few short weeks and I
dont post often, but Im glad to know that if I need anyone I can always
come here. It is my comfort zone right
now. I dont have many friends either that are close by, but I have
already made friends here and that makes me feel good. Im having major
trouble with my webtv right now. So I may not be around for a few days
or a week. Those of you that have emailed me, Im not ignorng your mail.
I keep getting disconnected. May be phone trouble. Any way Neil I look
forward to taling to you again but it may not be right away. Email if
you like and Ill answer first chance Im able to.
Im 34. Dx BP 3yrs ago. Depression all my life.
Im on SSD for now but am in college hoping to
go back to work one day. Probably not full time, but anything but
sitting home alone.
I also have RA (Rheumatoid arthritis) so have a lot of fatigue from
that. And pills, pills, pills!!!!!
It takes alot of courage to tell your story with all
the warts. I rarely do that with anyone, in cyberspace or in the
flesh. So you are to be commended! A purple heart for Neil!
Keep posting and know you are not alone
here. We are all part of a unique club.
(((((((((((((((((((((((Neil)))))))))))))))))))))))
Peace to you.
Laurie
PS I also take Depakote. 500 am 1500 pm.
I also gained alot of weight. 30-40 lbs.
My pdoc raised my thyroid medicine and it has helped some. Havent lost
it all but 24 lbs.
since last June. Frequently, those with
mental illness have thyroid trouble. Sometimes because of the meds too.
Anyone ever mentioned it? Just a thought. :-)
Gandalf
I am glad that you responded. I did not respond to lithium with weight gain
(certainly not like the depakote and lithium horror stories I have heard).
Like I said it was the antipsychotics that were the culprits. But! When I
was placed on the lithium and taken off the antipsychotics, and I tried to
lose the hospital weight AGAIN (so frustrating), losing weight on the lithium
didn't happen. I lost 10 pounds in a reasonable amount of time (about 2
months), and then although I stayed on the diet for 3 more months the weight
stayed on too. My metabolism downshifted into "lean cold winter" mode. ?!
I wonder if, in some macabre way, weight gained from the different drugs is
harder to take off. Or maybe (depending on your unique biochemistry) it is
harder to lose weight while you are taking drug X than drug Y. I have heard
that lithium weight is easier to take off, and I assumed that is trying to
lose weight gained on lithium while still on lithium. But that just wasn't my
experience.
Anybody out there with any wisdom about this, pertinent anecdotes or links
that might shed light on this?
-Gandalf
************************************************
That which is most personal is most general.
Carl Rogers
************************************************
Keith Hardwick wrote in message <3707d017....@news.mindspring.com>...
|This is untrue about lithium. Lithium <can> cause massive
|weight gain, but that gain is over within 3 months. After
|that lithium does <not> cause weight gain, and most people
|lose as much weight as they want. I did.
|Keith
Nagual
Thank you for sharing your story. I wish I was brave enough to tell
mine. Perhaps, one day, I will. So many things you say ring true for
me, trying to manage the moods with drugs, isolating myself, the
violence (except in my case, it has always been directed at myself)
and the anger and shame.
I am struggling to come to terms with being cyclothymic, and all I can
do is hold out my hand to you and call you 'friend'.
In hope
Nagual
__________________________________________________
To reply by email remove TAKE_A from reply address
Nagual
>write anytime
I'm not sure if you were replying to me or Neil. Either way, your
thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.
Keith Hardwick
(Cadfael51) wrote:
>O Noble Grey Wizard,
>
>Gandalf said...
>
>: Hello Neil, 47. My pseudonym is Gandalf, and I'm 40, divorced 3 years, no
>: children. I spent 10 years as a software engineer and in computer support.
>
>Another cyberweenie...<g>?
>
>: Also about 50# overweight, although in my case it is pretty directly connected
>: to lithium and even more to the neuroleptics. I have been very frustrated
>: with medication-caused weight gain. You described binge eating/drinking, is
>: your weight gain partially due to the drugs?
>: At one point when I kept putting on pounds after getting out of the hospital,
>: I got angry enough to study myself scientifically for a month. Eating the
>: same amount, exact same number of calories, on the neuroleptics I was putting
>: on 2 pounds/week, then when went off the stelazine that same calorie intake
>: maintained me at the same weight. So each hospitalization (4 in last 7 years)
>: has earned me between 20-30 pounds. Usually I was able to lose it, but then
>: when pdoc put me on lithium so now can't lose it. Kindly, empathetic pdoc
>: says people don't lose weight on lithium they are lucky to stay the same. So
>: I share your "ARG!"
James D. Milton
On Wed, 31 Mar 1999 18:58:49 -0500, ndu...@earthlink.net (Cadfael51)
wrote:
>MBTI is the Meyers-Briggs Temperament Indicator. This is a testing tool
>developed by Isabel Briggs-Meyers based on, among other things, work on
>archetypes developed by Carl Jung. The test may only be given by
>licensees for a price, but a smaller, less accurate version of the test
>is available at http://keirsey.com with additional information about the
>sixteen personality types. Many people use the results of these tests to
>categorize people, which I tend to think of as kinda dangerous, but I
>like to use it as a kind of shorthand to help understand other people's
>tendencies and a way to understand relationship dynamics.
>Neil
I took the first temperament test. Here are my results. I believe that I
can see a lot of me in this analysis. YTMV (Your Temperament May Vary) --
and hopefully will! <G>
**************************************************************************
Keirsey Character Sorter Results
--------------------------------
Any Personality questionnaire, including the Sorter is just a rough
indicator of temperament.
Your Temperament is Rational : NT
---------------------------- --
RATIONAL NTs, being ABSTRACT in communicating and UTILITARIAN in
implementing goals, can become highly skilled in STRATEGIC ANALYSIS. Thus
their most practiced and developed intelligent operations tend to be
marshaling and planning (NTJ organizing), or inventing and configuring
(NTP engineering). And they would if they could be wizards in one of
these forms of rational operation. They are proud of themselves in the
degree they are competent in action, respect themselves in the degree
they are autonomous, and feel confident of themselves in the degree they
are strong willed. Ever in search of knowledge, this is the "Knowledge
Seeking Personality" -- trusting in reason and hungering for achievement.
They are usually pragmatic about the present, skeptical about the future,
solipsistic about the past, and their preferred time and place are the
interval and the intersection. Educationally they go for the sciences,
avocationally for technology, and vocationally for systems work.
Rationals tend to be individualizing as parents, mindmates as spouses,
and learning oriented as children. Rationals are very infrequent,
comprising as few as 5% and no more than 7% of the population.
Your variant temperament is Architect : INTP
------------------------------------- ----
Portrait of an Architect (iNTp)
Of the four aspects of strategic analysis and definition it is the
structural engineering role -- architechtonics -- that reaches the
highest development in INTPs, and it is for this reason they are aptly
called the "architects." Their major interest is in figuring out
structure, build, configuration -- the spatiality of things.
As the engineering capabilities of the INTPs increase, so does their
desire to let others know about whatever has come of their engineering
efforts. So they tend to take up an informative role in their social
exchanges. On the other hand they have less and less desire, if they ever
had any, to direct the activities of others. Only when forced to by
circumstance do they allow themselves to take charge of activities, and
they exit the role as soon as they can without injuring the enterprise.
The INTPs' distant goal is always to rearrange the environment somehow,
to shape, to construct, to devise, whether it be buildings, institutions,
enterprises, or theories. They look upon the world -- natural and civil
-- as little more than raw material to be reshaped according to their
design, as a formless stone for their hammer and chisel.
Many regard this attitude as arrogant, and INTPs are likely, especially
in their later years, after finding out that most others are faking an
understanding of the laws of nature, to think of themselves as the prime
movers who must pit themselves against nature and society in an endless
struggle to define ends clearly and adopt whatever means that promise
success. If this is arrogance, then at least it is not vanity, and
without question it has driven the design engineers to take the lead in
molding the structure of civilization.
Details of questionnaire
-----------------------
I: Reserved (Introverted) = 9/9, P: Prospective (Perception) = 6/9
Your score of each temperament was: (lower number meaning preferred)
NT = 28; NF = 39; SJ = 39; SP = 54
************************************************************************
Neil, thanks for pointing out this informative Web site! I really enjoy
taking such tests! Being the introverted introvert I am, I always welcome
additional material for further introspection. <G>
Best regards from,
James
Mr. Spock for President in 2000!
Madonna
because it seems to help me.
I haven't been able to visit in a couple of days because of a personal
illness with my daughter.
But after reading your post, I hope you don't mind that I personal
E-Mailed you. Just want to say I am glad you are here with us and you
being able to tell your story was so very brave.
Look forward to seeing more of your post.
Madonna
Lynda
Hi Madonna,
I hope your daughter is better and improving daily.
> I have only posted here a few times myself,but try to read a lot, because
> it seems to help me.
Please continue to post!
> I haven't been able to visit in a couple of days because of a personal
> illness with my daughter
snipped...
Happy Holiday,
Julez
I also wish to say welcome aboard. Please feel free to email me or post
anytime.
We are mostly harmless here : )
Again please post with any questions or concerns.
Julie