Gallery Owner Attacked for Iraq Abuse Art
forked tongue
of
the nation's unresolved
anguish over the incidents at the Abu Ghraib prison — a black
eye delivered by an unknown
assailant who apparently objected to a painting that
depicts U.S. soldiers
torturing Iraqi prisoners.
Thought the people up in the bay area were tolerant. [Note to self,
recalibrate bay area people standards.]
Now I'm rather sure that what happened in Abu Ghraib wasn't out of
charachter for the people who wave the patrotic American standard. It
makes me sick to my stomach to realize how spoon fed these unthinking
minds are by the "news" media or I should say opinion mongers. I'm
getting afraid to live in the USA.
Masterwoof
forked tongue <sp...@spamcop.com> wrote:
> SAN FRANCISCO - A San Francisco gallery owner bears a painful reminder
> of
> the nation's unresolved
> anguish over the incidents at the Abu Ghraib prison — a black
> eye delivered by an unknown
> assailant who apparently objected to a painting that
> depicts U.S. soldiers
> torturing Iraqi prisoners.
>
> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=533&e=7&u=/ap/20040529/ap_on_r
> e_us/prisoner_abuse_painting
>
>
>
> Thought the people up in the bay area were tolerant. [Note to self,
> recalibrate bay area people standards.]
Hey, hey, hey. We're not a Bog Collective here, you know. Unfortunately,
there *are* a few kooks here who think the Iraq war is a good idea. :-(
> Now I'm rather sure that what happened in Abu Ghraib wasn't out of
> charachter for the people who wave the patrotic American standard. It
> makes me sick to my stomach to realize how spoon fed these unthinking
> minds are by the "news" media or I should say opinion mongers. I'm
> getting afraid to live in the USA.
Did you hear Al Gore's speech to MoveOn the other day? He was pretty
angry about people who were blaming that whole thing on the untrained,
inexperienced, mislead reservists who were running that prison.
--
MasterWoof <masterwoof at timberwoof dot com>
http://www.timberwoof.com/masterwoof/
"Don't sit in the front of the bus.
Wait for "market forces" to even things out." -- jenner
Joe
maste...@timNOberSPANwoof.com says...
> Did you hear Al Gore's speech to MoveOn the other day? He was pretty
> angry about people who were blaming that whole thing on the untrained,
> inexperienced, mislead reservists who were running that prison.
>
>
A friend's father is retired from the JAG Corp. He was telling us that
there is no way this whole Abu Ghraib thing doesn't go up the chain of
command. Responsibilities regarding prison conditions are very clear and
the standard procedures require regular inspection and reporting. He is
thoroughly pissed about the whole thing and is hoping (as am I) that the
superiors involved get handed over for a war crimes tribunal.
My dream of seeing Bush in handcuffs draws ever closer.
forked tongue
Unfortunately Bush isn't an idiot, just a moron. His order would have been
something like "Get me the f****** information on Sadam/WMD." He will be
able to say, "I never meant my order to 'get the information' to contramand
the standing orders of the UCMJ or the Geneva Conventions." Rumsfeld
however is an idiot and he'll likely get those bracelets.
Steve Pope
> [..]
> Thought the people up in the bay area were tolerant. [Note to self,
> recalibrate bay area people standards.]
The perpetrator of this attack has not been identified, therefore,
it is not known if they are from the Bay Area.
San Francisco is known as a tolerant, liberal city, and this
tends to attract incidents of hate crimes, e.g. gay-bashers
who come from other areas looking for victims. The location
of the victim in this recent attack in a heavily touristed
area (North Beach) adds to the probability that the criminal
came in from out of town.
Steve
Binder
> SAN FRANCISCO - A San Francisco gallery owner
...
> Thought the people up in the bay area were tolerant. [Note to self,
> recalibrate bay area people standards.]
Sorry. The SF Bay Area is one of the most conservative areas in the
country, regardless of our reputation for forward thinking.
IMO, when money moved in, tolerance moved out. It's all well and fine to
innovate in technical (IOW, anything that doesn't challenge values)
areas, but those technical innovations come with the people that supply
the money (conservative thinkers, usually) and the poor dumb schmucks
that make the innovators' lives possible, like plumbers (also
conservative thinkers, IMO.)
I've watched it happen over the last LIII years. Circa 1970, with the
influx created by the Free Love movement, the area changed dramatically
away from the generally poor populace. People discovered Bagdad by the
Bay (TM, Herb Cain) and her lovely surrounds. Land doesn't get much
prettier, anywhere in the world, and at the time, it was comparatively
cheap.
The new money brought old thinking. Greed and racism grew rapidly. By
1980, things had changed so much that the rural Bay Area was no longer
"a nice place to raise your kids" unless one was willing to move further
out than the convenient 15 minute commute to The City.
This wasn't unique to the Bay Area. We, as a nation, grew more dependent
on technology, and less independent. The Great Depression was finally
over, people grew more secure in their insulation from their neighbors
and their community. In the great inward motion of the next two decades,
people demanded more and gave less. The infrastructure fell apart from
neglect and overuse, and people grew more likely to greet you with a
single finger salute than a wave.
"I got mine and you can't have any" became the creed of the land. The
masses needed something to hold onto, and increasingly, that something
was Tradition. In an area known for its lack of tradition, people knew
they needed something, but they didn't have a basis for understanding
the practices they adopted.
The enemy of prejudice is knowledge. People who are barely subsisting
don't have time for self-examination, but contrary to what one might
think, those barely getting by folk are not the poor; rather, it's the
middle class and upwards who lack the time or attention needed for
introspection.
The breaking of the dot com bubble created a wide spread panic: people
who felt, reasonably. that their futures were well assured, suddenly had
to face an environment with few jobs available, insane rents and real
estate, two hour commutes, and illegal immigrants taking the fall back
kind of jobs that used to be common.
That creates an atmosphere of fear. Most everyone has something to be
angry about, but noone to take it out on directly: it gets taken out on
faceless people, like someone that trips a trigger by displaying a
painting that makes a visceral statement.
Few among us are willing to pay the price for tolerance; we're too
worried about making sure others tolerate us.
Simple, eh?
IMO, ymmv.
Binder
--
LLEBOOTHSLG
remove my TAILS to email me
Whips, Quirts, Etc http://www.madplaiter.com
Steve Pope
> Sorry. The SF Bay Area is one of the most conservative areas in the
> country, regardless of our reputation for forward thinking.
> IMO, when money moved in, tolerance moved out. [..]
The claim that the bay area is "one of the most conservative
areas of the country" is ridiculous.
The conservative-leaning effect you describe is real, but it's
only a strong effect in parts of the bay area -- the southbay,
Marin county, eastern Contra Costa. San Francisco (outside of
the Sunset), Berkeley and Oakland remain quite liberal.
The steady swing of the political pendulum to the right
is nationwide, not limited to California, and it's probably
seen the most resistance in the inner Bay Area than anywhere
else in the U.S. (New York City probably comes close.)
Steve
Masterwoof
Steve Pope <spo...@speedymail.org> wrote:
> Binder <smaxbin...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Sorry. The SF Bay Area is one of the most conservative areas in the
> > country, regardless of our reputation for forward thinking.
>
> > IMO, when money moved in, tolerance moved out. [..]
>
> The claim that the bay area is "one of the most conservative
> areas of the country" is ridiculous.
>
> The conservative-leaning effect you describe is real, but it's
> only a strong effect in parts of the bay area -- the southbay,
> Marin county, eastern Contra Costa. San Francisco (outside of
> the Sunset), Berkeley and Oakland remain quite liberal.
Liberal? What a ridiculous claim. Why, several years ago, when San
Francisco choice for mayor was between a Democrat and a Democrat, voters
chose the black Democrat instead of the gay one. That *proves* that Sf
is a hotbed of radical right-wing conservatism.
> The steady swing of the political pendulum to the right
> is nationwide, not limited to California, and it's probably
> seen the most resistance in the inner Bay Area than anywhere
> else in the U.S. (New York City probably comes close.)
My brother reports some positive things about Santa Fe.
--
MasterWoof <masterwoof at timberwoof dot com>
http://www.timberwoof.com/masterwoof/
"You have to watch the violence to be desensitized to it!" -- Bart Simpson.
bubbleentity
"Masterwoof" <maste...@timNOberSPANwoof.com> wrote in message
news:masterwoof-433F5...@typhoon.sonic.net...
> In article <c9dogs$3hv$1...@blue.rahul.net>,
> Liberal? What a ridiculous claim. Why, several years ago, when San
> Francisco choice for mayor was between a Democrat and a Democrat, voters
> chose the black Democrat instead of the gay one. That *proves* that Sf
> is a hotbed of radical right-wing conservatism.
could you provide more information about that, because without the
surounding effects and situation, that does not prove anything at all.
Jahwar
bubbleentity <ISH(expand this)@hotmail.com> wrote:
> could you provide more information about that, because without the
> surounding effects and situation, that does not prove anything at all.
Actually, it proved you should have your sarcasm detector
recalibrated.
bubbleentity
"Jahwar" <jah...@tantalus.cox.net> wrote in message
news:c9e3g4$tpk$1...@tantalus.no-ip.org...
hand accounts tends to end up with a load of bs, and sometimes its not worth
the time
Masterwoof
"bubbleentity" <j...@attica.net.nz> wrote:
While my premise is factual (Willie Brown and Tom Ammiano were mayoral
candidates in 1999. See http://www.sfbg.com/listen/debates2.html or do a
search in Google on '"Willie Brown" "Tom Ammiano"'.) my conclusion is an
exercise in sarcasm.
emeryville mayor brown
Don't confuse San Francisco's former Mayor Brown with Oakland's Mayor
Brown. The latter one is former California Governor Jerry "Moonbeam"
Brown. He's as much a radical conservative as Tom Ammiano.
Steve Pope
> Steve Pope <spo...@speedymail.org> wrote:
>> The claim that the bay area is "one of the most conservative
>> areas of the country" is ridiculous.
> Liberal? What a ridiculous claim. Why, several years ago, when San
> Francisco choice for mayor was between a Democrat and a Democrat, voters
> chose the black Democrat instead of the gay one. That *proves* that Sf
> is a hotbed of radical right-wing conservatism.
Well, as I pointed out in my last post, the highly populous Sunset
district of S.F. is conservative. Often, they get their choices on
candidates and ballot measures. (Although I don't think
that was the case in the instance you cite.)
>> The steady swing of the political pendulum to the right
>> is nationwide, not limited to California, and it's probably
>> seen the most resistance in the inner Bay Area than anywhere
>> else in the U.S. (New York City probably comes close.)
>My brother reports some positive things about Santa Fe.
Good point. Yes, certainly there are places like Santa Fe that are
hangovers from 60's liberalism.
Steve
Steve Pope
>"Jahwar" <jah...@tantalus.cox.net> wrote in message
>> bubbleentity <ISH(expand this)@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > could you provide more information about that, because without the
>> > surounding effects and situation, that does not prove anything at all.
>> Actually, it proved you should have your sarcasm detector
>> recalibrated.
>possibly, but then again, living no where near there, and relying on second
>hand accounts tends to end up with a load of bs, and sometimes its not worth
>the time
Well, I'll summarize.
San Francisco, and Berkeley especially, are places where
one can reliably find many liberals, more so than most of
the U.S.
When it comes to politics, most people here are Democrat (which
is not really a liberal party by world standards, but is by U.S.
standards). A significant minority are yet more to the left,
being Green, Peace and Freedom, Communist, Earth Firsters, Animal
Liberationists, etc. I myself am essentially a Commie, or at
least a left-leaning liberal, although I vote Democrat -- in the
U.S, that is the lesser of evils.
Notably, our congressional district's reprsentative is Barbara
Lee, the sole member of the U.S. Congress to vote against Bush's
war in Afghanistan. Also notably, the opposition rate to Bush's
policies in Afghanistan and Iraq is far higher here than in
the U.S. at large.
However, saying it's reliable to find liberals here does not
mean there are not a lot of conservatives. They're here --
especially the faux-libertarians who are nothing more than
shills for the rightwing, but somehow see themselves as
"anti-establishment".
I could rant on but that's the net sum of things. :)
Steve
Binder
> However, saying it's reliable to find liberals here does not
> mean there are not a lot of conservatives. They're here --
> especially the faux-libertarians who are nothing more than
> shills for the rightwing, but somehow see themselves as
> "anti-establishment".
I couldn't have said it better, and I tried.
There's a rather large wolf in sheep's clothing contingent here... and
they seem to have forgottent what's under their Armani suits.
One thing I learned on SSBB was to not discuss politics with
conservatives. Seems there's a tendency among them to repeat themselves,
or change the topic quickly, when faced with "why do you think that's
so" kind of questions.
I'm one of very few non-conservatives in my (I'd call it liberal) social
circle, and I'm extremely happy to have learned that lesson.
Asmodeus
@blue.rahul.net:
> Good point. Yes, certainly there are places like Santa Fe that are
> hangovers from 60's liberalism
I can think of no better reason NOT to move to Santa Fe.
--
/"\ || Free Enterprise
\ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN || Limited Government
X AGAINST HTML MAIL || Individual Freedom
/ \ AND POSTINGS || http://www.rlc.org
Asmodeus
@blue.rahul.net:
> Also notably, the opposition rate to Bush's
> policies in Afghanistan and Iraq is far higher here than in
> the U.S. at large
And here, Bush has a far greater lead over sKerry than in
the U.S. at large. Can we say red state?
Asmodeus
@corp.supernews.com:
> or change the topic quickly, when faced with "why do you think that's
> so" kind of questions
Wow. Just like liberals, who suddenly play the race card,
or the "disadvantaged" card or some other such socialist
duck and cover game.
Masterwoof
Asmodeus <asmo...@REMOVEinsightbb.com> wrote:
> Steve Pope <spo...@speedymail.org> wrote in news:c9e9ng$82p$1
> @blue.rahul.net:
>
> > Good point. Yes, certainly there are places like Santa Fe that are
> > hangovers from 60's liberalism
>
> I can think of no better reason NOT to move to Santa Fe.
Oh! That means you won't be moving there. Add Santa Fe to the list of
possibilities! :-)
HannaFate
forked tongue wrote:
> SAN FRANCISCO - A San Francisco gallery owner bears a painful reminder
> of
> the nation's unresolved
> anguish over the incidents at the Abu Ghraib prison — a black
> eye delivered by an unknown
> assailant who apparently objected to a painting that
> depicts U.S. soldiers
> torturing Iraqi prisoners.
>
> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=533&e=7&u=/ap/20040529/ap_on_re_us/prisoner_abuse_painting
>
>
And here I am, trying to get this kind of attention for my art, and I
can't even get a ranting preacher on my porch.
NightMist
wrote:
Heres another different tidbit for you:
http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/this_just_in/documents/03885837.asp
I have generally considered most performance art to be crap, and this
is no exception.
I wonder if the reaction would have been the same had he been hanging
out on the corner with a walkman.
NightMist
--
"It's such a gamble when you get a face"
- Richard Hell
Asmodeus
@spamcop.com:
> Unfortunately Bush isn't an idiot, just a moron
I really wish you people would try to be consistent. On odd
days of the month Bush is a moron, and on even days of the
month he's at the head of whatever trendy conspiracy you're
currently obsessing about.
You can't have it both ways. Make up your minds and stick
with it.
Jason Crowell
asmo...@REMOVEinsightbb.com says...
> forked tongue <sp...@spamcop.com> wrote in news:40BA0804.B3A04182
> @spamcop.com:
>
> > Unfortunately Bush isn't an idiot, just a moron
>
> I really wish you people would try to be consistent. On odd
> days of the month Bush is a moron, and on even days of the
> month he's at the head of whatever trendy conspiracy you're
> currently obsessing about.
At one time, I believed that there might be something to do with "Peak
Oil". I've since changed my mind, the Administration really is
simultaneously crazy, clueless and corrupt.
Unless, that's what they want us to think...
Markem
> @spamcop.com:
>
> > Unfortunately Bush isn't an idiot, just a moron
>
> I really wish you people would try to be consistent. On odd
> days of the month Bush is a moron, and on even days of the
> month he's at the head of whatever trendy conspiracy you're
> currently obsessing about.
>
No no no, as usual your interpretation is lacking, Bush is a moron who
does not see the conspiracy of the underlings working with those in the
backrooms.
Markem
DonSideB
Crowell <jas...@iquest.net> writes:
>
>At one time, I believed that there might be something to do with "Peak
>Oil". I've since changed my mind, the Administration really is
>simultaneously crazy, clueless and corrupt.
>
>Unless, that's what they want us to think...
>
There is a book out right now called 'Misunderestimated' that deals with that
idea.
Bush has a lot of very surprised losers in his wake who thought they were
smarter than him.
--
don
Congress shall make no law abridging freedom of speech
(except to muzzle critics of the Congress for 60 days before an election.)
SSBB Diplomatic Corps: Tidewater Virginia
Asmodeus
news:MPG.1b2f8bd9b...@news.comcast.giganews.com:
> Unless, that's what they want us to think...
I'm going to drive up there and slap you!
Jason Crowell
asmo...@REMOVEinsightbb.com says...
> Jason Crowell <jas...@iquest.net> wrote in
> news:MPG.1b2f8bd9b...@news.comcast.giganews.com:
>
> > Unless, that's what they want us to think...
>
> I'm going to drive up there and slap you!
*Ptthhhhbbbbbbttttttt* 8-Ş
Seriously, I can't tell what's going on with those guys anymore. A few
months ago, it didn't look great, but it seemed like they were all on
the same page.
Then suddenly, it looked like the wheels simply came off, and nobody
knows what the fuck they're doing anymore.
Asmodeus
@news.madbbs.com:
> I have generally considered most performance art to be crap, and this
> is no exception.
So did this moron get the day off work to do this? Oh, silly
me, work! What was I thinking! He's an activist!
We had an academic conference on the G8 here. Some of these
idiots were too stupid to understand what "academic conference"
means (and since this is a college town, and nearly all of
them are students who never left, that lack of knowledge
boggles the mind), and protested. Well, actually, they broke
into the conference, apparently expected to confront reps
from the G8. Well, duh. No G8 there, imagine! The academics
more or less said, "That's nice," after the protesters were
finished screaming and asked them to leave.
This was reported, with several corrections, to several of
those indymedia sites. First, they claimed there was police
brutality, then they claimed a policeman sexually assaulted
some female protestor. Neither was the case. A protester
assaulted a policeman and she was arrested, as she should
have been. No night sticks, no beatings, no drama, other
than the screeching of the protesters.
Asmodeus
> *Ptthhhhbbbbbbttttttt* 8-è
Hey now! (-: