Crying
Bladerunner
expressed an interest in their partner crying. How they are turned on
physically and psychologically by their partner crying - and from
something they've done to that partner (as opposed to crying because of
a pet dying).
I have my own ideas for what someone might get from making their
partner cry, and I've heard a couple of people talk about it. I'd like
to hear more from people who have this interest. What do you get from
it? What circumstances have to be in place for it to be "good crying"?
What makes it different from "bad crying"?
Bladerunner
ever curious
SSBB Diplomatic Corps: Portland, OR
Brian Downstairs
crying seems to be part of a lot more people's kink over there, than in
mainstream bdsm, whatever that might be!
I can tell you that crying can be good for afterwards, even if you might
feel its bad at the time. This has happened to me, and I think it must have
something to do with wanting to cry, but not being able to. Maybe this is a
male thing, I don't know.
I'm not so bothered by it as I was when it first happened.
Coming down afterwards can of course be tearful, and quite refreshing in
some cases
I'm having problems finding real words to explain the difference though. I
really don't know if its been good till afterwards, so figuring it out is
not easy.
I bet there are as many answers to this as people who have done it.
When you play around with brain chemistry, you are kind of in uncharted
territory.
Brian
--
switc...@blueyonder.co.uk
Brian's private email.
Only my Eyes are blind...
Bring on the spam!
"Bladerunner" <bldr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1153555747.6...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
Troia
> Hmm, I imagine you might get more input for this on the spanking pages, as
> crying seems to be part of a lot more people's kink over there, than in
> mainstream bdsm, whatever that might be!
>
> I can tell you that crying can be good for afterwards, even if you might
> feel its bad at the time. This has happened to me, and I think it must have
> something to do with wanting to cry, but not being able to. Maybe this is a
> male thing, I don't know.
No, it is not just a male thing at all.
But I think that the crying in bdsm, while related, is something deeper.
Of course, I can only speak as a sub. But my Dom says, in essence
(and filtered clumsily by me at this early-morning pre-coffee moment)
that our encounters are a way of sort of taking everything from me,
leaving me "empty" if you will, and that is when the tears come as you
describe. For me it is a giving over that lets me lose myself both
intellectually and in my tangles of emotions, and so the end is the sort
of crying you speak to, not always but especially in times of stress.
But there is another sort of crying, the tears that come from pain and
submission to it, it has a different feel to me. I think (am not sure)
that what Bladerunner refers to is this, and that there are sadists who
do enjoy the signs of suffering. And yet, not being emotionally
abusive, they will of course not enjoy the tears of true psychic pain
(the cat died) any more than they will enjoy their sub's suffering if
she has a toothache (not "pain is pain" here; there is good pain & bad
pain) nor even inflicted pain if it is not the intended controlled
infliction and suffering.
My Dom does sometimes (in the more intense moments) enjoy signs of my
suffering, as much as I seem to crave it sometimes too. I cannot fully
explain his desire, of course, being on the other side of it, but it
seems common enough: a whipped submissive, her innocent face marked by
tears, and hearing her pleading and screams, yet giving no mercy. It
fits with the understanding that I always have, that I can (being a
slave) be whipped to that point if he chooses, just as I can be whipped
for mere pleasure/arousal ... It has its own attraction, to know this,
just as it carries a sort of primal fear.
I have no Dom in me (sexually) but even I can see the appeal of a
sweetly submissive face turned up and showing tears from what is being
suffered, and knowing that the suffering will continue for as long as
the sadist chooses.
It does seem to me, though, to go to such lengths requires enormous
trust; it is not something I would generally want to "scene" but it is
part of the repertoire of possibilities between my Dom and myself, more
possible as trust deepens over time. It goes part-and-parcel, in my own
mind, with the desire to be tied (restrained, bound) in order to
struggle against the restraints, thus to be able to take a much more
severe whipping and know it will not end based on how much one struggles
to escape it.
As a female submissive, I also admit that the image of that tear-stained
face (my own) being put to pleasing him afterwards (ours being an
intensely sexual relationship) ... well, that image also has some
powerful erotic appeal for some of us, and I know that my Dom and I are
not alone in this (as it is so often told in stories that way.)
And yet, in my own experience, pain alone will *never* make me cry; I
have to be in deep submission and have a certain feeling, then the tears
of suffering can come, as I accept it and show it with my tears and
pleas, and with what is delivered still until he is done.
I am sure what I have written here will appall those who do not enjoy
the images or this sort of intense play, and might please and perhaps
even arouse those who know the pleasures of this sort of experience.
-- Troia
(Apologies for the sexist pronouns, but that is the way I experience it
and I find it too clumsy to write "they" or "s/he" etc. and I hope the
reader can make substitution for their own gender arrangements while not
losing the sense of it.)
Janet Hardy
1153555747.6...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com, "Bladerunner"
<bldr...@aol.com> wrote:
I believe that "good crying" in scene comes from the exact same place as
laughter or orgasm -- they're all about being so filled up with energy that
it has to spill out somewhere.
Tears are pretty close to a fetish for me -- it's a huge turn-on if I can
take a partner to tears and comfort them afterwards, or if I can go there
myself with the right partner.
Janet
--
NOW AVAILABLE! "Play Piercing," by Deborah Addington (author of "A Hand in
the Bush" and "Fantasy Made Flesh"). Coming soon to your favorite leather
store, erotic boutique or bookstore, or order today from
http://www.greenerypress.com .
Molly B
<snip>
>
>I have my own ideas for what someone might get from making their
>partner cry, and I've heard a couple of people talk about it. I'd like
>to hear more from people who have this interest. What do you get from
>it? What circumstances have to be in place for it to be "good crying"?
> What makes it different from "bad crying"?
I'm answering from the perspective of the crier and hoping that will be useful
to you.
I have realized it's a good idea to warn people ahead of time that they don't
have to stop whatever they're doing (usually, whacking me) when I cry. It has
been a relief to know that play partners can cope with my crying. And it's not
unusual for me to giggle a lot and then end up crying. If I'm on the verge of
crying and someone who has been whacking me starts being kind to me, it's pretty
much a guarantee that I'll cry.
The first time I cried during spanking play, it was a total surprise to me. It
was the first time I ever played, and it was very, very mild play. But I was so
overwhelmed at having what had been a fantasy for so long turn into reality and
so overwhelmed that someone understood what I wanted and was willing to give it
to me, that as I was over her lap, I felt quiet tears running down my (facial
:-) ) cheeks.
I think the good crying I do now comes from that same place, that emotionally
overwhelmed place. And if I need a cathartic cry, BDSM is a good arena to have
it in. It's one of the few places where I am more emotion than thought.
As far as what my play partners get out of my crying, I guess you'd have to ask
them. I think they like being along for the ride and being what gets it all
started. Maybe they like that combo of being mean/scary and kind/nuturing. I'm
just guessing. I think that if I made a partner cry, that's what would appeal to
me about it. But I top only rarely, and I haven't made anyone cry.
And to distinguish a "good cry" from a "bad cry" -- Crying from pet loss isn't a
bad thing. Losing the pet is heartbreaking, but I don't think crying as part of
grieving and coping is bad. You're right, tho that that kind of crying feels
different from good scene crying. I don't know. That kind of crying comes
entirely from loss. Good crying for me comes from being overwhelmed by all sorts
of not-sort-outable emotions rather than from being overwhelmed by heartache,
and it's shared rather than solitary.
Molly B
SuzanneM
: I believe that "good crying" in scene comes from the exact same place as
: laughter or orgasm -- they're all about being so filled up with energy that
: it has to spill out somewhere.
I can relate to that. I've played with a top who gets turned on
when the bottom starts to cry. We talked about it,
and it's just that: it turns him on.
To me, crying reflects the intensity of the play. I like to
explore the limits of what I can do, and it seems natural that
when you approach a limit, or even cross it, you cry. You cry from
the pain, you cry from emotion, you cry from the energy that comes
out. It doesn't turn me on but it does feel good.
dag
Suzanne M
--
toy at the end of a chain -- www.xs4all.nl/~tateoac
Stephen Harris
> To me, crying reflects the intensity of the play. I like to
> explore the limits of what I can do, and it seems natural that
> when you approach a limit, or even cross it, you cry. You cry from
> the pain, you cry from emotion, you cry from the energy that comes
> out. It doesn't turn me on but it does feel good.
I've started crying in scenes; I didn't use to. I think that as I've
got to know Tori better and better I'm now able to be more open with
her; where, before, I would hold back and keep better control of myself
(something I was trained to do a long time ago as a child) I'm now able
to let that side of myself show and expose my vulnerabilies to her.
--
rgds, Stephen "Pleasure, little treasure"
An Englishman in New York, and loving slave to his Mistress, Tori.
BDSM thoughts, writings, poems and stuff: http://bdsm.spuddy.org/
Newsgroup charter, FAQs etc at http://bdsm.spuddy.org/newsgroups/
SuzanneM
: I've started crying in scenes; I didn't use to. I think that as I've
: got to know Tori better and better I'm now able to be more open with
: her; where, before, I would hold back and keep better control of myself
: (something I was trained to do a long time ago as a child) I'm now able
: to let that side of myself show and expose my vulnerabilies to her.
Either you're more open now or Tori pushes you beyond the point
that you start to cry? I feel the same, it's easier to let go if
you know the top well. Once you do let go, it's easier to go
further in play and let the top take you to spaces in your head
that were unknown to you before. And probably spaces in their head
they never saw before.
: rgds, Stephen "Pleasure, little treasure"
: An Englishman in New York, and loving slave to his Mistress, Tori.
oh, I'll be in NY next Saturday.
Ruth Lawrence
"Janet Hardy" <ver...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:C0E78F8E.932D%ver...@earthlink.net...
> On 7/22/06 1:09 AM, in article
> 1153555747.6...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com, "Bladerunner"
> <bldr...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> I got to thinking about how a couple of people I've played with have
>> expressed an interest in their partner crying. How they are turned on
>> physically and psychologically by their partner crying - and from
>> something they've done to that partner (as opposed to crying because of
>> a pet dying).
>>
>> I have my own ideas for what someone might get from making their
>> partner cry, and I've heard a couple of people talk about it. I'd like
>> to hear more from people who have this interest. What do you get from
>> it? What circumstances have to be in place for it to be "good crying"?
>> What makes it different from "bad crying"?
>
> I believe that "good crying" in scene comes from the exact same place as
> laughter or orgasm -- they're all about being so filled up with energy
> that
> it has to spill out somewhere.
For me, that's likely to be so: I'm a giggler and know that I can go from
that to crying in a scene, as with tickling.
> Tears are pretty close to a fetish for me -- it's a huge turn-on if I can
> take a partner to tears and comfort them afterwards, or if I can go there
> myself with the right partner.
Hmm. I wish I knew someone compatible down here with that attitude!
Ruth
Stephen Harris
> Stephen Harris <bd...@spuddy.org> wrote:
> : I've started crying in scenes; I didn't use to. I think that as I've
> : got to know Tori better and better I'm now able to be more open with
> : her; where, before, I would hold back and keep better control of myself
> : (something I was trained to do a long time ago as a child) I'm now able
> : to let that side of myself show and expose my vulnerabilies to her.
> Either you're more open now or Tori pushes you beyond the point
> that you start to cry? I feel the same, it's easier to let go if
More open. I start crying earlier, and the tears are more natural and
relaxing. Previously I was bottling them up and when I did cry it was
"painful" and not good tears. Now it's good and happens a lot earlier.
> oh, I'll be in NY next Saturday.
Oh? Doing anything interesting?
--
rgds, Stephen "Pleasure, little treasure"
An Englishman in New York, and loving slave to his Mistress, Tori.
BDSM thoughts, writings, poems and stuff: http://bdsm.spuddy.org/
SuzanneM
: More open. I start crying earlier, and the tears are more natural and
: relaxing. Previously I was bottling them up and when I did cry it was
: "painful" and not good tears. Now it's good and happens a lot earlier.
"bottling them up" is a nice metaphore when you're talking about
tears :-)
: > oh, I'll be in NY next Saturday.
: Oh? Doing anything interesting?
No plans yet. Meetings on Friday, flying to the west coast on
Sunday. I guess on Saturday I'll have a lunch or dinner meeting,
meet some old friends, do some work, do a tourist thing. I don't
know NY very well. Anything going on at TES on Saturday?
dag,
Cheeky Girl
>
> I believe that "good crying" in scene comes from the exact same place as
> laughter or orgasm -- they're all about being so filled up with energy that
> it has to spill out somewhere.
>
> Tears are pretty close to a fetish for me -- it's a huge turn-on if I can
> take a partner to tears and comfort them afterwards, or if I can go there
> myself with the right partner.
>
> Janet
>
I don't normaly cry during play. That last time was about a month ago,
and these were tears of frustration, because the person I was playing
with not stop what he was doing, no matter what I said or did. Needless
to say, that play partner is out.
Cheeky Girl
Troia
SAFEWORD.
Please do not play with new partners without one! (And if they don't
abide by it, you are correct and should never go near them again.)
It is not the same as my own situation, where I don't decide the extent
... but even then, if I am in real distress, I have a safeword available
(though I doubt I would ever have to use it, as he would pay attention
to my condition anyway.)
-- Troia
Stephen Harris
> know NY very well. Anything going on at TES on Saturday?
The only thing in the calendar is
Nudist Colony Day Trip
Saturday, July 29 2006, 11:00am - 7:00pm
Nudist colony day trip NJ (approx 1 hour from GW bridge) Contact
Nudist...@tes.org or call 917-864-2000 for more info.
Nudist...@tes.org or call 917-864-2000 Exact location released to
attendees; NJ, approx 1 hour from GW bridge Approx $30./couple (no
discount for singles, sorry)
SuzanneM
: The only thing in the calendar is
: Nudist Colony Day Trip
: Saturday, July 29 2006, 11:00am - 7:00pm
yeah, well, for nudism it's easier to stay here ;-)
dag
Cheeky Girl
> SAFEWORD.
>
> Please do not play with new partners without one! (And if they don't
> abide by it, you are correct and should never go near them again.)
>
> It is not the same as my own situation, where I don't decide the extent
> ... but even then, if I am in real distress, I have a safeword available
> (though I doubt I would ever have to use it, as he would pay attention
> to my condition anyway.)
>
> -- Troia
I had one, or so I thought.. It wasn't a new partner either, It was two
and a half months in the making and the third time we had played. Up to
this point all was well, and fun was had.
The night in question was a different story and things took a change,
and I needed to stop. When my safeword didn't work, I got up, dressed
and left. I wasn't hurt physically, but was scared enough to know that
I would never be able to trust this person again.
And I told him as much.
Cheeky Girl
Troia
Good for you!!
Your safeword has to be *always* respected, always always always. Even
if the person has known you for years. It's not even a mere physical
thing; the person has no real way of ever being sure that they haven't
put you into some mental spot that is causing you real psychic pain at
the moment, of the sort no Dom should want you to suffer. (For example,
sometimes BDSM play can bring out the memory of something truly awful in
your life that you've been pushing out of your mind because it's too
painful to think about, and then you don't want to be spanked when you
are hurting enough that you really need to be comforted until you can
get it in control.)
I am sorry to hear of your bad experience otherwise, though.
-- Troia
Cheeky Girl
> Good for you!!
>
> Your safeword has to be *always* respected, always always always. Even
> if the person has known you for years. It's not even a mere physical
> thing; the person has no real way of ever being sure that they haven't
> put you into some mental spot that is causing you real psychic pain at
> the moment, of the sort no Dom should want you to suffer. (For example,
> sometimes BDSM play can bring out the memory of something truly awful in
> your life that you've been pushing out of your mind because it's too
> painful to think about, and then you don't want to be spanked when you
> are hurting enough that you really need to be comforted until you can
> get it in control.)
>
> I am sorry to hear of your bad experience otherwise, though.
>
> -- Troia
It is something I have been working on, you know the dreaded
communication and all.
Thank you, and I'm sorry it turned out that way as well, but I did learn
a valuable lesson, and will use it in the future.
Cheeky Girl
Ruth Lawrence
"Cheeky Girl" <umha...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:44c3a5a1$0$34113$892e...@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...
Good!
What a !#$%.
R/ruth
Cheeky Girl
Cheeky Girl
Beauty
What kind of man would be turned on by a woman crying?
What kind of male master would be turned on by a female slave crying?
Oh this is a true sadist. Dangerous.
Beauty
Beauty
> Hmm, I imagine you might get more input for this on the spanking pages, as
> crying seems to be part of a lot more people's kink over there, than in
> mainstream bdsm, whatever that might be!
>
> I can tell you that crying can be good for afterwards, even if you might
> feel its bad at the time. This has happened to me, and I think it must have
> something to do with wanting to cry, but not being able to. Maybe this is a
> male thing, I don't know.
>
> I'm not so bothered by it as I was when it first happened.
>
> Coming down afterwards can of course be tearful, and quite refreshing in
> some cases
> I'm having problems finding real words to explain the difference though. I
> really don't know if its been good till afterwards, so figuring it out is
> not easy.
>
> I bet there are as many answers to this as people who have done it.
>
> When you play around with brain chemistry, you are kind of in uncharted
> territory.
>
> Brian
>
> --
>
dangerous. Who the hell plays around with brain chemistry? Huh?
Beauty
> >
Beauty
appalled just shocked because I think someone has been playing around
with me this way psychologically without my knowing it...Oh boy. Thanks
for that expose....I am in trouble.
Beauty
Beauty
green bottom...I feel like Bambi who just found her legs. I left off
this stuff as a teenager...For a femdom relationship which I detested.
Beauty
Troia
It does not take a master or dom to be turned on by a woman crying; an
enormous range of men find it arousing to see a woman in tears. In fact
it is rare to find a man who is not touched by a woman in tears.
And a true sadist is not dangerous. What is dangerous is a sadist who
refuses to know and accept what he is and learn, as a master, to control
it and explore it in ways that do not harm innocents. You know, like
vanilla abusers.
Masters are not abusers; now *those* are the men you should worry about
enjoying a woman crying, as they claim to be nice vanilla guys and just
love knocking a woman around to keep her down .... something no real Dom
or Master would do!
But then again, you're just a troll, so you obviously know nothing about
it and just post to provoke.
-- Troia
Troia
> Troia wrote:
,,,
> Are you serious? Man I am ******naive****** What the hell? I am not
> appalled just shocked because I think someone has been playing around
> with me this way psychologically without my knowing it...Oh boy. Thanks
> for that expose....I am in trouble.
> Beauty
>
If this did not have all the earmarks of a troll ... then I would say
that if someone has been playing you that way without you knowing it,
you *should* open your eyes, as that is sometimes the start of abuse.
Fortunately, subs know what is being done and consent to it in advance,
and in a way it is done for their own benefit and pleasure.
If you are actually a real person needing real help -- though it hardly
seems like it -- I hope you get that help to get out if you are being
abused.
-- Troia
SilverOz
Beauty <orthodo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
> Brain Chemistry?! What the hell? Are you serious? Oh man this is
> dangerous. Who the hell plays around with brain chemistry? Huh?
> Beauty
I do. Every time I go out on the motorcycle to play in the hills, I
get this real rush of enjoyment, gets me quite high on a good day. The
rush of power, the rush of skill and ability, the speed, the howl of
the bike, the joy of conquering that corner.
I do. Every time I ride the pushbike to work and back, and really
push hard to get the heart rate up. There's a point where I'm
grinning like a loon and the effect lasts for some time after the
bicycle's in the garage.
I do. When I am in deep subspace the effect is as though I'm a
different person, it really changes how I think and react and feel.
Very different brain chemicals there than the first two examples, but
ain't no doubt that whatever happens is happening because my brain
chemical balance is changing. Wish I could bottle it!
If you haven't experienced things like that, then I should feel sorry
for you, instead I feel smug as all hell!
SilverOz
Wolf Whitewater
brain's chemistry. And as for who plays around with it . . . you do.
Ever ridden a roller-coster? Driven at over 80 mph? Eaten chocolate or
your favorite flavor of ice cream? Had good sex? Taken drugs like
Ridilin or Celexa or drugs to help you sleep, or to keep you awake? Do
you drink coffee? That's altering brain chemistry right there. People do
it all the time in this world, and don't think twice about it.
Whitewater
(Ok, STILL not convinced 'Beauty' is a troll. Uneducated in most ways,
perhaps, and perhaps very young, and perhaps having to get the posts
translated into his/her primary language, but so far Beauty has avoided
the 'You suck' tone that seems to characterize our particular brand of
troll. Maybe we can educate instead of ridicule, just this once, until
some incontrovertable evidence is discovered.)
M. Shirley Chong
> Brain Chemistry?! What the hell? Are you serious? Oh man this is
> dangerous. Who the hell plays around with brain chemistry? Huh?
Quite a lot of people play with their brain chemistry in socially
approved ways. I'm guessing but I think coffee is probably the
commonest means of playing with brain chemistry. Tobacco is another
mood altering substance. So is chocolate. And of course there's alcohol.
People who engage in physical activity such as running often
describe a change of mood or thinking that occurs predictably when
they do it.
There are a few people who like to play with adrenaline--they ride
roller coasters, they climb mountains, they ride hunter/jumpers,
they race various sorts of vehicles, etc.
Any activity or behaviour which predictably changes one's mood is
playing with brain chemistry.
Shirley
M. Shirley Chong
> WHAT?!
> What kind of man would be turned on by a woman crying?
> What kind of male master would be turned on by a female slave crying?
> Oh this is a true sadist. Dangerous.
You say "sadist" and "dangerous" like you think that everyone will
agree that these are bad things.
In my limited experience it's not at all uncommon for people to have
a positive sexual response to seeing tears or to crying themselves.
Shirley
Beauty
dealing with an abusive man, but I am handling him. I can do this. I
have done it before. No one else can handle him in the way I am. It's
all good. Back off, would you, please?
Beauty
Beauty
abusive "vanilla" marriage, I had left my bdsm explorations as a
teenager, so yes, I am young, and trying to enter back into a bdsm
relationship after many years, ok? Give me a break, please. Go look for
trolls elsewhere, not here.
Beauty
Beauty
troll. You have no idea what I am. Leave me alone and stop replying to
my posts. I am dealing with a very unusual man, not vanilla. I am
trying to figure his psyche out, ok? I am not worried. I am intrigued.
Beauty
Troia
> Wolf Whitewater wrote:
...
>> (Ok, STILL not convinced 'Beauty' is a troll. Uneducated in most ways,
>> perhaps, and perhaps very young, and perhaps having to get the posts
>> translated into his/her primary language, but so far Beauty has avoided
>> the 'You suck' tone that seems to characterize our particular brand of
>> troll. Maybe we can educate instead of ridicule, just this once, until
>> some incontrovertable evidence is discovered.)
> You think I have time to troll? Look, folks, I just got out of an
> abusive "vanilla" marriage, I had left my bdsm explorations as a
> teenager, so yes, I am young, and trying to enter back into a bdsm
> relationship after many years, ok? Give me a break, please. Go look for
> trolls elsewhere, not here.
> Beauty
>
Please try to separate this from *yourself* a bit and please be less
defensive. What is being said is not that anyone thinks *you* have the
time to troll, but rather that your posts read somewhat like what trolls
sometimes do in posting. It has been put as a question and people are
taking the time to engage in dialog with you anyway, despite the initial
doubts ... I know you may be in a sensitive place right now, but
understand that when someone says "Is this a troll? I'm not sure"
(which is fundamentally what's been said) it is not an attack on YOU, it
is a concern at being duped and wasting energy on a different sort of
person who does such things.
It seems fairly clear that you are not a troll, at this point --
engaging in dialog -- and enough are concerned here to talk with you,
but your back is up at this point despite my own apologies, and I really
think it is time to let that go and move forward with productive
discussion if that is what you seek.
-- Troia
Markem
wrote:
>I am going to say this nicely and say it once, shut up. I am not a
>troll. You have no idea what I am. Leave me alone and stop replying to
>my posts. I am dealing with a very unusual man, not vanilla. I am
>trying to figure his psyche out, ok? I am not worried. I am intrigued.
I guess there is not really a nice way to say this but my my the world
is all about you.
::plonk::
(a sound of beauty?)
Markem
(sixoneeight) = 618
Troia
Idunno, I followed up by really *trying* to say it nice, i.e. "Please
try to separate this from *yourself* a bit and please be less defensive.
" and so forth including apologies for assuming a likely troll ... but I
doubt I succeeded.
I do consider that beauty may be in some distress and have trouble
communicating, though, as others point out, and I'd like to make
allowance for that; one can get pretty self-absorbed in the midst of
such troubles.
But it is a bit hard to reconcile the attitude with the questions, I
admit, though I'd thank Whitewater for giving me some sense of
perspective on it, since I don't have the experience of being a "newbie"
in the way she went through it.
-- Troia
Markem
<troia....@gmail.removethis.com> wrote:
>But it is a bit hard to reconcile the attitude with the questions, I
>admit, though I'd thank Whitewater for giving me some sense of
>perspective on it, since I don't have the experience of being a "newbie"
>in the way she went through it.
Beauty seems to have built a very small universe in which the rules
are set. You and I know better (well hopefully we do). My "White
Charger and gleaming suit of armor" have been retired for a good many
years.
Markem
(sixoneeight) = 618
Wolf Whitewater
Beauty, in the interests of trying to help you, would you care to give
us your opinions on our responses to your questions, instead of focusing
on your hurt feelings? I know you're new here, and probably to Usenet in
general, and it takes a lot of guts to ask questions, for which you are
being respected, because people ARE answering your questions. If we
really thought you were a troll you would have been summarily tossed
into killfiles and then publicly ridiculed and humiliated. None of that
has happened. So calm down, accept that we're trying to help you, and
continue to engage in discussion :) It's the only way to get your answers.
I was divorced at the age of 21. It was also an abusive marriage. I
think we may have more in common than you think. In fact, most folks
here will be willing to help, but you need to learn to trust in the fact
that we're all different, and that no learning is ever wasted. It took
me a long time to do that when I first got here. You have a wealth of
information available to you here. Take what fits, ignore what doesn't,
respect it all, and you'll succeed. It's that easy.
And if you want, email me privately :) I'd be happy to talk. Just take
the crud out of my email address.
Whitewater
Troia
...
> Beauty, in the interests of trying to help you, would you care to give
> us your opinions on our responses to your questions, instead of focusing
> on your hurt feelings? I know you're new here, and probably to Usenet in
> general, and it takes a lot of guts to ask questions, for which you are
> being respected, because people ARE answering your questions. If we
> really thought you were a troll you would have been summarily tossed
> into killfiles and then publicly ridiculed and humiliated. None of that
> has happened. So calm down, accept that we're trying to help you, and
> continue to engage in discussion :) It's the only way to get your answers.
>
> I was divorced at the age of 21. It was also an abusive marriage.
Oddly, me too ... but that was a LOT of years ago. Quite a lot!
I just want to say that I absolutely admire the gentle touch and caring
you manage with this. Maybe it's because you've "been there" but I am
impressed by the way you have handled all this and the way your writing
comes across.
Of course, I have been a moody and temperamental sort of creature this
week, so I even my most careful and thoughtful posts don't compare to
your efforts.
-- Troia
Wolf Whitewater
> I just want to say that I absolutely admire the gentle touch and caring
> you manage with this. Maybe it's because you've "been there" but I am
> impressed by the way you have handled all this and the way your writing
> comes across.
>
> Of course, I have been a moody and temperamental sort of creature this
> week, so I even my most careful and thoughtful posts don't compare to
> your efforts.
>
> -- Troia
It's because I've been there, trust me. And I'm not so far removed from
the days when I didn't know anything about being kinky, and what I did
know freaked the hell out of me. I would have given anything, back then,
to be treated with a little kindness and understanding. I remember being
completely overwhelmed by the realization that I was kinky and then, in
trying to find out what kind of kinky I was, being overwhelmed again by
stuff that kinky folks take for granted but which was totally outside of
anything I'd ever known. I didn't have any context for anything, nor had
I even begun to imagine what was involved in the label 'being kinky'.
At the beginning of my kinky journey, opening my mind to everything took
a near-physical effort, and it felt like my mind was literally splitting
open, trying to take it all in. And then, every time I thought I was
being tolerant and openminded and accepting, finally, something else
would come along that would totally throw me and I'd have to make the
effort all over again to understand.
Some folks can adapt easily. For me, it was and is a difficult process.
I ask a lot of questions -- I did back when I was new, and still do. And
for a while when I was *brand* new I was agressive and defensive because
I felt (little understanding that *everybody* is in this place) that
where I was didn't match up to anything else, and I was not only left
out in the cold, bdsm-wise, but completely misunderstood. It wasn't
until I realized that if it works for you, it's kinky, and nobody else
gets to dictate your kinky lifestyle, that I was able to shed the chip
on my shoulder and start actually becoming a member of the community at
large.
Beauty reminds me a lot of what I was like back at the beginning of my
journey. I want to help her. Whether or not she accepts my help is up to
her.
(and as for my writing, I have a neurological disability. Therefore,
it's a LOT easier for me to write instead of speak. It's virtually
impossible for me to communicate face to face, so writing wound up being
the way I 'talk' to others. It's just the result of years and years of
being unable to communicate save through writing. I write like other
people talk.)
Whitewater
M. Shirley Chong
> but
> understand that when someone says "Is this a troll? I'm not sure"
> (which is fundamentally what's been said) it is not an attack on YOU, it
> is a concern at being duped and wasting energy on a different sort of
> person who does such things.
Troia, you mentioned in a whole slew of posts that you thought
Beauty was a troll. Not as a question, not as a concern about being
duped but in a way that certainly read to ME as a direct and very
personal attack or as taunts.
Here's a couple quotes from you to refresh your memory:
"But then again, you're just a troll, so you obviously know nothing
about it and just post to provoke." Posted in message ID
44c87401$0$17959$892e...@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net in the
"crying" thread.
"If you are actually a real person needing real help -- though it
hardly seems like it -- I hope you get that help to get out if you
are being abused." Posted in message ID
44c874de$0$17962$892e...@authen.yellow.readfreenews.ne in the
"crying" thread.
If you would like me to provide more aides de memoire, I will be
glad to but I think the two quotes I provided are representative of
what you posted over and over and over. And over again.
If you no longer believe Beauty to be a troll, it's time to suck up
some intellectual honesty and apologize for your rather bad
behaviour instead of trying to convince Beauty that she wasn't
attacked (when she clearly was).
Someone certainly came off looking badly here and it wasn't Beauty.
Meesoon Shirley Chong
Wolf Whitewater
Shirley, Troia has apologized, at least twice, in various threads. And
even I had my doubts about Beauty until I began to recognize the nature
of her posts as 'newbie' rather than 'troll'. Do we really have to make
this about personalities? I'd rather hear your thoughts on
objectification and psychological collaring, frankly. Even if I don't
always agree with you, your posts are always intelligent and
thought-provoking and I'd like to hear what you have to say.
Whitewater
Troia
...
> If you no longer believe Beauty to be a troll, it's time to suck up some
> intellectual honesty and apologize for your rather bad behaviour instead
> of trying to convince Beauty that she wasn't attacked (when she clearly
> was).
>
I did.
I can look for the post again but I believe the words I used were "I
apologize".
However, I ALSO took the time to answer her questions even with those
doubts, which I do think has some significance even if she rejects those
answers due to hurt feelings or who they come from.
-- Troia
Troia
Thank you, Whitewater ... but it is also clear (as I hope I have stated
by now) that I did make a bad assumption, due primarily to the
combination of never having "been there" and the number of trolls I have
had to deal with over the years who started out with posts very much
along the vein of beauty's.
The fact is, I really do appreciate your enlightenment about your own
experiences and how you might've come off if you had posted at a certain
point in your experience, because it is easy for someone coming from
where *I* am to simply not "get it", to mis-read when dealing with
someone new or inquiring in this way. My own experiences in coming to
BDSM are sorta 180degrees from yours; I was introduced to it when I was
a teenager, I have always had no real problem accepting it, and
dangitall that was ... well, it was well over 30 years ago so I may have
not recognized how it can be to have so many questions.
So I really owe you some gratitude for the upside-the-head thing that
you did so well that I hardly noticed it. *g*
(I'm joking; you've been nothing but gracious, but it was a bit of a
wake-up call to the Usenet cynic in me.)
Thank you, really.
-- Troia
Wolf Whitewater
>
My own experiences in coming to
> BDSM are sorta 180degrees from yours; I was introduced to it when I was
> a teenager,
Really? Cool! Heh, when *I* was a teenager life was about avoiding the
wrath of my mother, horses, and grades, in that order. Boys were barely
a blip on the radar and as for sex, well . . . I went to a religious
school and I was a good girl. In fact, I felt midly ashamed, as though I
was a bad girl, for having pierced ears. I was told that sex was bad and
that good girls (which I earnestly strived to be) didn't think, talk,
want or need it. Sex was something that Bad People did, and oh, I wanted
desperately to be good. Typical growing up with religious parents, I
suppose.
(For even more context, I didn't realize what 'being gay' was until I
turned 18.)
I have always had no real problem accepting it, and
> dangitall that was ... well, it was well over 30 years ago so I may have
> not recognized how it can be to have so many questions.
I have -- see above for why, in a nutshell.
>
> Thank you, really.
>
> -- Troia
You're very welcome :) In this particular situation I'm not actually
posting to do wake-up calls or anything of that nature, nor am I trying
to set up a 'thing' . . . I'm just, well, sharing, I guess. What my
experiences have been. Maybe hoping that somebody else can relate.
Y'know, non-cynical girlie stuff! *grin*
Whitewater
Troia
Well, just your good luck to hit me on one of my most cynical days!
Seriously, I suspect you are a bit younger than me; my teenage years
coincided with all that "free love" stuff, and it gave me what I think
is a very healthy sexual nature for life (not without flaws, mind you,
but then sex is a powerful thing and I suspect there simply is no
"normal, carefree" approach to it.)
Hearing the stories of so many others, especially those who had to
struggle later in life (often 30's seems to be the time period for
women) to understand and accept themselves ... and hearing about the
number of people who thought they were alone in it, strange (or worse),
and had no sources of informaiton until they discovered the internet ...
well, it makes me feel a bit spoiled in my experiences. I grew up in a
time and place where this, of all things, was actually one of the easier
parts of maturing. I had a man-of-a-boy (that is, an older teen who
deserves credit for being a "man") who brought me into it, looked after
me, loved me, taught me not just BDSM but life skills, and introduced me
to good sex.
Yeah, I've had bad sex. I've had times when I tried to make it fit some
version of "vanilla". (That's not really as difficult as it might seem;
one can, for example, simply declare oneself "old fashioned" or even
go fundy Christian and get to a very similar place) and I've had some
short-term relationships and certainly enough that failed. I chose to
be alone for many years, and I had a long period of abstinence by
choice. I also had a pretty suck-y sort of childhood and have been on
my own since those mid-teen years.
But when it comes to kink, I've had it easy. Said boyfriend who
introduced me and about whom I have nothing bad to say. Men who were
good to me throughout my life. Good income, independence, freedom
thanks to being on the leading edge of the "Women's Lib" movement and
the "sexual revolution". And never a problem really, with accepting my
sexual being. Years ago, there was the Boston Phoenix among the
alternative newspapers, and it provided even 30 years ago a venue for
connecting with Dom types.
I'm not saying my life has been blessedly pleasant -- it most certainly
has contained enough pain and hardship, including the mentioned abusive
husband -- but I am saying that I probably seem a bit blind when it
comes to fully understanding what it is like to come to *this* (i.e.
WIITWD) later in life, having to struggle with accepting it, going
through some of the sorts of pain and self-doubt that entails.
And now, an old sorta broad *g*, I find myself in a wonderful
relationship with a wonderful Dom who seems to get it as right with me
as a human being can get it. (That is to say, I find VK's sigtag a bit
appropriate at times --
>
> "You say you're looking for someone, who will promise never to fall,
> who will gather flowers constantly, and come each time you call"
> Robert "just don't pretend he's your Dom" Zimmerman
-- but, yaknow, that's just part of a relationship with a human being;
it ain't perfect, but I'm perfectly happy with "very good" (except on
the days that I'm emotionally wildly unhappy, but that surely is not
*his* fault and the steadiness of my Dom is a help in those times, as
are other things between us.)
So ... now I feel not only spoiled, but as if I'm boasting, which isn't
the intent.
I just think that you unintentionally caused me to open my eyes a bit
wider, and re-examine my responses in context, and give a bit of a
prayer of "thanks" for my having had what I've had.
Pardon me ... in case it is not clear, I am in a "mood" tonight, a bit
too over-pensive but hopefully not being offensive to anyone.
I'm always impressed by the strength and bravery (internal) of those who
have to come to this late, learn about it, come to accept it, and then
make it work for them. At the very least, it reminds me that I never
really had to do that "work" and that I may take a lot for granted.
I was very glad to read your recent posts about your new relationship,
by the way, after having read other things you've written over the
months. I wish you well in it.
-- Troia
Wolf Whitewater
> I was very glad to read your recent posts about your new relationship,
> by the way, after having read other things you've written over the
> months. I wish you well in it.
>
> -- Troia
It's amazing what a good relationship will do for a person . . . . Thanks!
Whitewater
Heikki
> WHAT?!
> What kind of man would be turned on by a woman crying?
Well, it happened to me last week, on the Summer Camp. I was playing with a
new partner, whacking her shoulders merrily along, pushing her a bit harder
with every series, and suddenly she was crying. I stopped, held her close
and let her cry. Soon I could sense that it was "good" crying, what ever
that is, and that she did not object to it. So, when she quieted down, I
told her that I appreciated her tears, and would bring them out again, if
she would take the beating it required. Hesitating, she said yes, and I
did, and she did cry again. I comforted her once again, took her down, and
just held her for a long time.
I don't know how to describe my feelings about it; I wasn't exactly turned
on, but I really enjoyed the power, and her trust. It was a good experience
for both of us. Later we played again, but not with as much intensity.
-H
Dan Holzman
> WHAT?!
> What kind of man would be turned on by a woman crying?
Which part of "sadist" didn't you understand?
> Oh this is a true sadist. Dangerous.
Google "Your kink is not my kink, but your kink is OK."
Stephanie Moore-Fuller
> On 7/22/06 1:09 AM, in article
> 1153555747.6...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com, "Bladerunner"
><bldr...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> I got to thinking about how a couple of people I've played with have
>> expressed an interest in their partner crying. How they are turned on
>> physically and psychologically by their partner crying - and from
>> something they've done to that partner (as opposed to crying because of
>> a pet dying).
>>
>> I have my own ideas for what someone might get from making their
>> partner cry, and I've heard a couple of people talk about it. I'd like
>> to hear more from people who have this interest. What do you get from
>> it? What circumstances have to be in place for it to be "good crying"?
>> What makes it different from "bad crying"?
>
> laughter or orgasm -- they're all about being so filled up with energy that
> it has to spill out somewhere.
I hadn't really encountered this idea until you mentioned it here and also
in your class. I think it is right on. For me one of the things I do is
pull, hard, against the wrist restratints if I'm bound, or else just hold on
to something and pull on it. I was once recently playing on a sort of
portable St. Andrews Cross, that was designed to fold up and be put into
a closet I guess. But while it took a load fine if one were *pushing*
against it, it didn't do so well with pulling. So I had to try and not do
this, and Wow! it was difficult.
> Tears are pretty close to a fetish for me -- it's a huge turn-on if I can
> take a partner to tears and comfort them afterwards, or if I can go there
> myself with the right partner.
I enjoy, if enjoy is the right word, going far enough for tears. But what
I notice is that it's *way* easier to get me to tears with compliments than
with pain. Get me into a scene situation, make me feel vulnerable, beat on
me a bit, and then the minute I get a compliment from my top, waterworks!
I think it's because the compliments go *in* deeper when I'm in that mind
set.
stephanie
--
Stephanie Moore-Fuller smoo...@blackrose.org Mountain View, CA, USA
"When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long
at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us."
-- Helen Keller
Tobie
are and post at the bottom.
On 23 Aug 2006 23:45:22 GMT, Stephanie Moore-Fuller
<smoo...@petal.blackrose.org> wrote:
I enjoy taking someone to tears.
One of my new bottoms just let go and allowed himself to go there this
last weekend and it was the first time he'd done that outside of a
private setting with a girlfriend/lover/owner.
It was beautiful to watch him build up and get to the point where he
chose to stop absorbing the pain, and take it AS pain instead.
I found it very erotic and was purrgrowling as I beat him in that
state.
I stopped very soon after though because I was unsure how far he'd
want to go with it being a first 'breaking' scene with me and felt
that if it was a really good thing, he'd be asking for more another
time.
Tobie
Bladerunner
> >> I got to thinking about how a couple of people I've played with have
> >> expressed an interest in their partner crying. How they are turned on
> >> physically and psychologically by their partner crying - and from
> >> something they've done to that partner (as opposed to crying because of
> >> a pet dying).
> >>
> >> I have my own ideas for what someone might get from making their
> >> partner cry, and I've heard a couple of people talk about it. I'd like
> >> to hear more from people who have this interest. What do you get from
> >> it? What circumstances have to be in place for it to be "good crying"?
> >> What makes it different from "bad crying"?
To follow up on my own post -
Recently I played with someone in a way that resulted in crying. It
wasn't the "good", cathartic cry. My partner scared the crap out of
me. In that mostly-consensual way with lots of good snuggling
afterwards. I can't say that the crying released anything useful for
me this time. It was, according to a comment afterwards, a turn-on for
hir. Which makes me happy. Not so much that I cried, but that as long
as I was crying from the fear, it also *meant* something to hir. That
fairly well rocked.
I've also done the cathartic crying, both spontaneously and set-up
ahead of time to try to release some built-up energy. And I've done the
"oh crap, something's gone very wrong" crying. Not to mention the "Dear
ghods I'm right on the edge, I've been right on the edge for what feels
like days, isn'tthereanythingthatwillgetmeoffalready?" crying. They
all feel different. And there's probably more kinds of crying than that
which aren't occurring to me right at the moment.
I'd still be interested in hearing more about people's experiences with
crying or making other people cry.
Bladerunner
SSBB Diplomatic Corps: Portland, OR
Dragonfly
"Stephanie Moore-Fuller" <smoo...@petal.blackrose.org> wrote in message
news:slrneepq4i....@petal.blackrose.org...
> I enjoy, if enjoy is the right word, going far enough for tears. But what
> I notice is that it's *way* easier to get me to tears with compliments
> than
> with pain. Get me into a scene situation, make me feel vulnerable, beat
> on
> me a bit, and then the minute I get a compliment from my top, waterworks!
> I think it's because the compliments go *in* deeper when I'm in that mind
> set.
>
> stephanie
Replying late... But I had to comment. The very few times I've been hrm,
not beat on, he's never done that (yet...) but been treated roughly, for
lack of a better way of putting it, he's always kissed and cuddled and
hugged me after, and told me what a good girl I am, blah blah, and more
often then not it'll make me cry. Its taken him a bit to understand I'm
crying because I'm overwhelmed and happy, and not because I'm upset. Now
that we have our own playspace, he's mentioned wanting to try er, really
painful things, which I'm positive will make me cry not-happy tears. I'm
pretty worried, not for myself since I've no objection to being made to cry
as long as its him and not anyone else. But I wonder how he'll handle it.
Complicated by the abuse from a past ex-dom, of course, and him having
always treated me like a princess... I'm not quite sure how to even talk
about this with him, much less whether I should and if so how to reassure
him that its ok if me makes me cry, and that I can handle it, and even if I
can't, it isn't the end of the world. Funny, I'm not at all worried about
my getting hurt in a bad way, but I'm really worried about how it would
affect him to push me that far.
Dragonfly -busy with new classes, but still around!
Lynn
Dragonfly wrote:
Now
> that we have our own playspace, he's mentioned wanting to try er, really
> painful things, which I'm positive will make me cry not-happy tears. I'm
> pretty worried, not for myself since I've no objection to being made to cry
> as long as its him and not anyone else. But I wonder how he'll handle it.
> Complicated by the abuse from a past ex-dom, of course, and him having
> always treated me like a princess... I'm not quite sure how to even talk
> about this with him, much less whether I should and if so how to reassure
> him that its ok if me makes me cry, and that I can handle it, and even if I
> can't, it isn't the end of the world. Funny, I'm not at all worried about
> my getting hurt in a bad way, but I'm really worried about how it would
> affect him to push me that far.
Next time he mentions his ideas, bring up your concerns. Now might be
a good time to play kind of experimentally--lots of check-ins, counting
games (i.e. "on a scale from one to ten, how heavy was that?"), things
like that.
Lynn
Dragonfly
"Lynn" <socke...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1157122060....@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> Next time he mentions his ideas, bring up your concerns. Now might be
> a good time to play kind of experimentally--lots of check-ins, counting
> games (i.e. "on a scale from one to ten, how heavy was that?"), things
> like that.
>
> Lynn
Might be a good idea, logically, but I'm already frustrated at how careful
he is being with me... I'm not worried about my reaction, I've already
proven to myself that I trust him enough for almost anything (if anyone asks
me to cut off my arm or jump off a cliff, even him, I'm not overly trusting
enough to just do it, really *grins* but you know, anything short of
that...)
He's made me cry before, and it almost made him swear off touching me again.
I know I need to talk to him, and I certainly will once the subject comes up
again. But, I'm not quite sure what to suggest, or how to make it clear to
him that YES I really do trust him, and it is OK even if I get upset or
start crying, and I'd actually LIKE for him to not always be so gentle and
perhaps even more importantly, we'll never figure out how much I can tke and
what I like if he never tries anything new with me! I adore being treated
like a princess, but its hard to not ah, not sure how to say it. And I
suspect that my inability to express what I'm trying to say is a great part
of the problem now. I've nothing to compare this to, no past experiences or
friends' experiences or anything to relate this to, no words to express what
any part of our relationship is, or feels like, or .. anything.
Perhaps what might be most helpful is hm... books? Stories of people in D/s
relationships, maybe diary-type writings of other sub women in similar
relationships, so I can see what words and expression others use to describe
things? Searching for such writings has occured to me before, but I'm
freaked about finding more porn than anything else, and I don't care for ...
graphic porn, though how to say what I mean by the difference between the
D/s stories I'd like to read, and porn that bothers me, I'm not sure?
Re-reading this, I sound totally lost. Which is probably close to what I'm
feeling. That and panic. After a week of being by myself in our new house,
he's coming up tonight, and I haven't figured this out yet.
From this thread, I'm assuming there ARE doms out there who are not only not
bothered by tears, but actually like them. From what he's said, to me, to
others, in the writings he's shown me, I know he can be an evil sadist when
he wants to be. But he's still treating me like a glass doll, and I don't
know how to reassure him that I won't "break" and that I'm quite willing in
spite of my lack of experience...
Dragonfly
Troia
...
> From this thread, I'm assuming there ARE doms out there who are not only not
> bothered by tears, but actually like them. From what he's said, to me, to
> others, in the writings he's shown me, I know he can be an evil sadist when
> he wants to be. But he's still treating me like a glass doll, and I don't
> know how to reassure him that I won't "break" and that I'm quite willing in
> spite of my lack of experience...
Yes, there are doms who enjoy seeing tears; in fact, it may even be
true for him, but he may care so much for you and want to be so careful
with you that he is responding differently.
But maybe give that time.
For reading material, you might find more in the blogs of other subs who
have gone through, or are going through, similar experiences. Very
little "porn" there. Also try the message boards particularly at the
Slave Registry, where such topics are discussed.
And instead of just pushing generally for "more", maybe talk with him
about specific things he can try, going further, one area at a time.
-- Troia
Lynn
Dragonfly wrote:
> Might be a good idea, logically, but I'm already frustrated at how careful
> he is being with me...
<snip>
> He's made me cry before, and it almost made him swear off touching me again.
> I know I need to talk to him, and I certainly will once the subject comes up
> again. But, I'm not quite sure what to suggest, or how to make it clear to
> him that YES I really do trust him, and it is OK even if I get upset or
> start crying, and I'd actually LIKE for him to not always be so gentle and
> perhaps even more importantly, we'll never figure out how much I can tke and
> what I like if he never tries anything new with me!
I'm not a terribly pushy top, because I really hate the idea that I
might harm someone, or that they might stop being my friend if I go too
far. If I had this situation, I'd really like to know that a system of
safewords would be solidly in place. If I were bottoming in this
situation, I would probably want to demonstrate to my top that I can,
and will, use safewords, and that my use of them doesn't mean that the
whole relationship is at an end--we're still friends even though I
called "red".
Did that make sense? Note that I said "me", because I'm not trying to
project onto your relationship, or tell you what to do. Deliberately
pushying someone to the point where they have to safeword is
not...universally accepted as a good idea.
> Perhaps what might be most helpful is hm... books? Stories of people in D/s
> relationships, maybe diary-type writings of other sub women in similar
> relationships, so I can see what words and expression others use to describe
> things? Searching for such writings has occured to me before, but I'm
> freaked about finding more porn than anything else, and I don't care for ...
> graphic porn, though how to say what I mean by the difference between the
> D/s stories I'd like to read, and porn that bothers me, I'm not sure?
Toya's writings might work, though it's been ages since I read them.
> Re-reading this, I sound totally lost. Which is probably close to what I'm
> feeling. That and panic. After a week of being by myself in our new house,
> he's coming up tonight, and I haven't figured this out yet.
Deeeep breath. Absence may make the heart grow fonder, it also gets
one so revved that they can't think straight. Remember, there's no
deadline. Making a relationship work well for all concerned is a
process that never ends.
> From this thread, I'm assuming there ARE doms out there who are not only not
> bothered by tears, but actually like them.
Hell yes!
>From what he's said, to me, to
> others, in the writings he's shown me, I know he can be an evil sadist when
> he wants to be. But he's still treating me like a glass doll, and I don't
> know how to reassure him that I won't "break" and that I'm quite willing in
> spite of my lack of experience...
In the end, time may be the thing that works best. Sad, and
frustrating, but maybe true.
Hang in there.
Lynn
user119
As I read this I can feel your frustration. Maybe I can help with the
frustration he might/may be feeling.
About 6 years ago I my then play partner and I had a long established
relationship and had gone about everywhere we could in the realm of play.
She expressed a desire to push the limits a bit. So we slowly started
working towards her crying while playing. The first 2 or three times
it was wonderful. We both had a great time.
The next time, it was like a switch was thrown. We'd been playing for
about an hour and it was all good and then *boom*. She was angry, *very*
angry. As soon as I saw the expression change in her face I stopped and
took her down. After she calmed down and we talked, she couldn't tell me
what it was that triggered her.
We did continue to play this way occassionally. Never again did she
experience anger like that first time.
And I'm sure other people have like stories to tell. The point is,
he may be afraid of triggering anger in you. Enough anger to endanger
your relationship. It may be that fear, not of 'breaking' you.
Just a thought.
--
Cui bonuo
remove the -N-COLD to reply
Bladerunner
Dragonfly wrote:
> He's made me cry before, and it almost made him swear off touching me again.
> I know I need to talk to him, and I certainly will once the subject comes up
> again. But, I'm not quite sure what to suggest, or how to make it clear to
> him that YES I really do trust him, and it is OK even if I get upset or
> start crying, and I'd actually LIKE for him to not always be so gentle and
> perhaps even more importantly, we'll never figure out how much I can tke and
> what I like if he never tries anything new with me! I adore being treated
> like a princess, but its hard to not ah, not sure how to say it. And I
> suspect that my inability to express what I'm trying to say is a great part
> of the problem now. I've nothing to compare this to, no past experiences or
> friends' experiences or anything to relate this to, no words to express what
> any part of our relationship is, or feels like, or .. anything.
> schnip <
> From this thread, I'm assuming there ARE doms out there who are not only not
> bothered by tears, but actually like them. From what he's said, to me, to
> others, in the writings he's shown me, I know he can be an evil sadist when
> he wants to be. But he's still treating me like a glass doll, and I don't
> know how to reassure him that I won't "break" and that I'm quite willing in
> spite of my lack of experience...
I wonder if talking about what to do *when* the inevitable Bad Stuff
happens might be useful for you two. You can discuss your safewords
till the cows come home, but at some point, the safewords won't work.
For any of a thousand reasons. You'll forget to use it, you'll use the
wrong one for the situation, he won't see or hear it in time,
*something* will go Wrong. You can talk about Trusting him for days on
end. And he can be Infinitely Trustworthy. Until something happens that
either you two disagree on whether something's broken trust or
something simply goes Wrong. You can reassure him till you're blue,
but he might not believe you fully understand what you're trying to
reassure him about, especially when that Bad Stuff happens.
And that's not necessarily a Bad Thing.
It's what you do NEXT that's important. It might be worth having a
discussion about how you plan to deal with that Bad Stuff when it
happens. That you understand things go wrong. The capsacin ointment was
hotter than either of you had expected. He beat on an area that, it
turns out, had a twitchy muscle or nerve cluster underneath where
typically you're fine being beat till you're purple. For some bizarre
reason, some combination of his words and tone reminded you exactly of
a Terrible Moment somewhere else in your life, and you can't get your
mind away from there for the next hour, even though outwardly, he can't
tell what's going on.
Remind him that while not everything goes to plan, and in fact
occasionally things go horrifically awry, you won't necessarily hold
him accountable for it. In fact, sometimes it's Nobody's fault. Promise
him you'll have at least one conversation with him about whatever it
was before you decide to dump him and move across country and spread
rumors about him. Mention that you both might even laugh about
whatever went wrong later.
Shit happens. It's what you do next that matters. And he might need to
be reminded that you know this. He might need to be reminded that *he*
knows this.
Bladerunner
"Shit happens. It's what you do next that matters."
Stephen Harris
> From this thread, I'm assuming there ARE doms out there who are not only not
> bothered by tears, but actually like them. From what he's said, to me, to
> others, in the writings he's shown me, I know he can be an evil sadist when
> he wants to be. But he's still treating me like a glass doll, and I don't
> know how to reassure him that I won't "break" and that I'm quite willing in
> spite of my lack of experience...
This is just a difference in expectations. Heh; "just". Basically it
requires negotiation. Pretty much like most things in this world. You
recognise and acknowledge this in earlier paragraphs that I've snipped.
I believe, from what you've said, that there isn't any massive difference
in compatibilities between your kinks. Just discuss them.
Tori and I have related issues; she enjoys inflicting pain on me, but
feels guilty about feeling pleasure and so holds back. While the
reasoning behind Tori and your guy is for their holding back may be
different, I think the solution is similar; discussion and _reassurance_
that they're not going to make us hate them, that we'll still love them
just as much as before if not more, that we _want_ to see this side of
them and we encourage them.
Or I may be talking shit; it happens :-)
--
rgds, Stephen "Pleasure, little treasure"
An Englishman in New York, and loving slave to his Mistress, Tori.
BDSM thoughts, writings, poems and stuff: http://bdsm.spuddy.org/
Newsgroup charter, FAQs etc at http://bdsm.spuddy.org/newsgroups/
jacqui{JB}
news:4lrnblF...@individual.net...
> But he's still treating me like a glass doll, and
> I don't know how to reassure him that I won't
> "break" and that I'm quite willing in spite of my
> lack of experience...
I don't have any particular suggestions for you beyond this: show him these
last two posts you've written here. You've written clearly, articulately
and eloquently about your feelings, and I can't think of a better
jumping-off place for the conversation you want to have with him.
Best,
-j