A stupid poll for the ages
Nutsy Swugglebeannies
(One could cross post this to rec.food, but then
you'd get a serious discussion going. That would
ruin the whole thing.)
How do you like your coffee?
I like mine pressed and served black.
--
Barry Schwartz Director, Society for Anachronistic Poetry
b...@hankel.rutgers.edu bsch...@elbereth.rutgers.edu
(Only when I am in Canada: tras...@alzabo.uucp.if.the.mail.is.working)
Charles Linsley
>How do you like your coffee?
(slightly) redeeming social feature is caffeine, and some poor, deranged
souls take that out. To think anyone would drink it just for the taste
boggles the mind. :-)
Chuck
Internet: clin...@netcom.uucp netcom!clin...@apple.com
UUCP: apple!netcom!clinsley
You can also try something like chu...@masscomm.chips.com, but I
just got that account today, and I haven't quite figured out whether
that's the right address, yet.
Ken Kaufman
>How do you like your coffee?
Poured down the sink, thank you.
Flames to sci.plumbing,
Ken Kaufman (kau...@gmu90x.gmu.edu)
nancy.l.colucci
>
>I like mine pressed and served black.
I normally ask for mine "black with sac(charine)."
-Nance
Light-brownhead. Writer. Sweet. att!ihlpl!colucci
stowe
>
>
>I like mine pressed and served black.
In someone else's mug. (I drink tea.)
-=-=- -=-=- -=-=-
st...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu Steady as a rock and twice as smart.
-=-=- -=-=- -=-=-
Nutsy Swugglebeannies
]In article <Mar.27.22.24....@elbereth.rutgers.edu> bsch...@elbereth.rutgers.edu (Nutsy Swugglebeannies) writes:
]>How do you like your coffee?
]Poured down the drain. Vile, disgusting, bitter stuff. Blech!! Its only
](slightly) redeeming social feature is caffeine, and some poor, deranged
]souls take that out. To think anyone would drink it just for the taste
]boggles the mind. :-)
To think anyone would want _caffeine_ in coffee boggles
_my_ mind! B^)
Robert Scott Comer
The sugar-free caffine-free pepsi generation is here.
I like my coffee from Kenya, with losta cream and sugar. And I like
it with someone else that likes coffee, thank you very much.
scott out
Laura Lemay
> All these coffee haters! No wonder the world is going down the drain.
> The sugar-free caffine-free pepsi generation is here.
Scot, scott, scott. And to think, I though you had taste. What a cheez
whiz.
I hate coffee. With a passion.
However, hand me an ice cold IBC root beer on a hot day in a frosted
mug, I'll be your slave forever....
*********************************************************
Laura Lemay lemay%lorele...@sun.com
Redhead. Drummer. Geek. sun!lemay
*********************************************************
stowe
>In article <133...@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> we...@toaster.Eng.Sun.COM (Robert Scott Comer) writes:
>> All these coffee haters! No wonder the world is going down the drain.
>> The sugar-free caffine-free pepsi generation is here.
Blech! (Nutrasweet gives me headaches... and caffeine doesn't do anything
unless I'm taking it in super-mega doses... enough to make me quite ill.)
>I hate coffee. With a passion.
I don't *hate* it... I just prefer tea.
>However, hand me an ice cold IBC root beer on a hot day in a frosted
>mug, I'll be your slave forever....
YEOW! MOMMA! I resemble that remark!
I also like Canada Dry Ginger Ale and Squirt and Pepsi...
and definitely Iced Tea (not the Lawn Guyland variety)...
plain...
no lemon...
no sugar...
Flavored Iced Tea is also more than acceptable.
I'm gettin' thirsty!!
-=-=- -=-=- -=-=-
st...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu Life's a batch, and then you abend.
-=-=- -=-=- -=-=-
Stephen D Hawley
Coffee? Only in ice cream (or Khalhua (yes, I know it's misspelled)),
preferably with Heath Bars and Ben and Jerry on the label.
Steve Hawley Pseudo-red head, guitarist, geek.
s...@flash.bellcore.com
"I'm sick and tired of being told that ordinary decent people are fed up with
being sick and tired. I know I'm certainly not, and I'm sick and tired of
being told that I am."
Dungeon of the 60 Foot Playmates
The only coffee I ever really liked was Irish Mocha Mint from the General
Foods Int'l. Coffees... and it can easily be argued that that stuff is
hot cocoa with an attitude.
IBC Root Beer is wonderful. And I still think Ginger Ale (if it's not Vernon's
or Diet Canada Dry) is one of the best..
--
| Brandi Weed bw...@jarthur.claremont.edu !uunet!jarthur!bweed |
Miriam H. Nadel
>In article <Mar.27.22.24....@elbereth.rutgers.edu> bsch...@elbereth.rutgers.edu (Nutsy Swugglebeannies) writes:
>>
>>How do you like your coffee?
>
Now here my evil twin is missing one of the prime sensual experiences
available to (wo)mankind.
One must first have a cabin in the woods on a snowy day. It is essential
that the cabin come equipped with a roaring fireplace and an attractive
MOTAS. And a good rug. (I like Berber rugs, but I would also like to
experience a bearskin.)
Now you take the right sort of kettle and heat it in the hearth. You
also prepare your porcelain drip pot by pouring in 4 T. of freshly ground
beans (1 part Moka to 3 parts Sumatra Mandheling if you're economical),
a stick of cinnamon and 2 white cardamom seeds. When your water comes to
a boil, take it off the heat and let it sit a couple of minutes. Now you
can pour it over the coffee and let it drip drip drip until you have a
dark, sweetly scented brew. While it is dripping, you can occupy yourself
with the MOTAS but you'd be better off for the moment going to the
kitchen and whipping some cream.
You might also be well advised to preheat your mugs which should be large
and heatproof. Glass ones are nice if you have them but anything not
obtained at a tradeshow will do. Fancy china cups are only for your
maiden aunt's visits. Pour an ounce of Meyer's rum into each mug. Pur
enough coffee over the rum to nearly fill the mug. Then top with a large
spoonful of whipped cream. Stretch out on the rug in front of the
fireplace and sip. Lick cream off your companion's lips...
Miriam (beats the styrofoam cup at the company cafeteria, eh?) Nadel
--
Not one of the 85% of Americans who didn't see Halley's comet.
Marvin Raab
>
>YEOW! MOMMA!
Hey! That's a copyrighted phrase! And, it can't be said without
the word "slime" in the same breath! :-)
-marvin
--
Marvin Raab
ma...@limbo.intuitive.com Mountain View, CA 94040
apple.com!limbo!marv 415-961-6501 (h)
Susan Kenzler
>
>Coffee? Only in ice cream (or Khalhua (yes, I know it's misspelled)),
>preferably with Heath Bars and Ben and Jerry on the label.
>
>Steve Hawley Pseudo-red head, guitarist, geek.
>s...@flash.bellcore.com
YES! Coffee Heath Bar Crunch is quite possibly the best ice cream ever
created!
For those of you keeping tally, chalk another one up for the coffee lovers.
It took me awhile to get used to it since I was originally a tea drinker, but
now I couldn't do without it. I was wondering at what ages people started
drinking coffee regularly. I didn't develop an appreciation for coffee until
my mid-twenties and was wondering if those coffee haters out there may be
converted to coffee achievers within a couple years.
~Susan
Mitch Wagner
sittin' here next to me now. I'm waiting for it to cool down to the approximate
temperature of the surface of the sun so I can take my first sip..... ah,
there we go. I can feel them little brain cells squiriming around up there.
Some of them are saying, "Ma! Do I hafta go to school today? I don't
feel so very good."
I like it with cream and sugar on weekdays. Weekends, I drink it black.
I don't know why that is.
I used to drink five or six cups a day, because I like to have something
to sip while I'm working. But then I used to go to sleep at night and
lie about six inches *above* the mattress and vibrate. Now I drink
one or two cups of coffee, and switch to water later on.
I like Maxwell House in the morning. Gourmet coffees are good for
after dinner, but I find in the morning I need the high-octane stuff,
including sludge and industrial wastes, to get me going.
Lately, on Saturday mornings, I find it very restful to get up and lay
on the couch and watch the Hill Street Blues episodes I've taped
during the week back-to-back during the week, and drink my coffee
then.
Which was more than you wanted to know.
--
Mitch
wag...@utoday.UUCP
Nutsy Swugglebeannies
]>
]>How do you like your coffee?
]>
]>I like mine pressed and served black.
]
]In someone else's mug. (I drink tea.)
There's only one way to make tea.
(Don't forget to scald the pot.)
Cheryl Meyer
> In article <21...@bellcore.bellcore.com> s...@flash.UUCP (Stephen D Hawley) writes:
> >
> >Coffee? Only in ice cream (or Khalhua (yes, I know it's misspelled)),
> >preferably with Heath Bars and Ben and Jerry on the label.
> >
> drinking coffee regularly. I didn't develop an appreciation for coffee until
> my mid-twenties and was wondering if those coffee haters out there may be
> converted to coffee achievers within a couple years.
I too love Kalhua (sp?) in my coffee (kinda hard to do at work, 'tho!)
I started drinking coffee when I was 22 because I was one of very few
women engineers at a nuclear power plant, and well, it was just
something one was supposed to do, I guess. And I had to drink it
BLACK, or I was really a sissy! :-)
Joe Mattis
>... While [the coffee] is dripping, you can occupy yourself
>with the MOTAS but you'd be better off for the moment going to the
>kitchen and whipping some cream.
Geez...what makes you think that these activities are mutually exclusive?
Some people have no imagination. ;-)
-Joe Mattis ARPA: j...@isl1.ri.cmu.edu
UUCP: ...!ucbvax!isl1.ri.cmu.edu!j...@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
Teri Miller
French Press coffeepot. I drive my housemate bananas, because I have
about 15 different kinds of coffee in airtight jars on the counter,
just waiting to be blended into a taste extravaganza!
My second favorite coffee is made by a very good friend of mine -
"coffee with texture", as she puts it. I don't know whether it's the
coffee or the ambiance, but I've taken to giving her coffee beans,
as a hint. :-)
I also keep an amazing variety of teas on hand. Over the years, it
seems as though the one tea that a guest really wants is the one tea
that I don't have, so my parents have been helping me with the "great
tea hunt". Last time they sent lychee, chamomile, and citrus spice.
YUM!
I also have to confess that I drink an inordinate amount of soft
drinks, and that I echo Laura Lemay's sentiments about IBC root beer.
They also make a killer cream soda.
Dave Gresham
managed to drop by the Buena Vista Cafe for a Few Irish Coffees.
d...@scubed.scubed.com (fast)
d...@pnet01.cts.com (slow)
larry@huevos
>> The sugar-free caffine-free pepsi generation is here.
No thank you, if I'm going to poison myself I'll do it with
REAL INGREDIENTS. sugar-free, caffeine free drinks have
everything removed but the carcinogens. Imitation
soft-drink substitutes need not apply.
>
>However, hand me an ice cold IBC root beer on a hot day in a frosted
>mug, I'll be your slave forever....
Now THAT's a REAL drink! (Unfortunatelly, they also make
an adulterated (sugar free) version.)
Never picked up the coffee habit (yet).
See ya,
Larry lwh...@cancer.unm.edu la...@huevos.unm.edu
"Caught between the longing for love
and the struggle for the legal tender.." J. Browne
Robert Thurlow
>How do you like your coffee?
Brewed from fresh-ground Columbian coffee beans and the freshest, coldest
and purest mountain spring water brought to 95 degrees Celcius, and with
fresh dairy cream and raw unpasturized clover honey added. It's best if
drunk while you tear into some freshly-baked bread while the aroma of both
substances is still making you wonder if sex really *is* the greatest
thrill of them all ...
Rob T
--
--
Rob Thurlow, thu...@convex.com
Coming to you from Texas, where a Smith & Wesson beats four aces any day.
sil...@m.cs.uiuc.edu
Usually with a little milk.
Kenya AA in the mornings
Columbian style at lunch
Something like Vieniese roast after dinner
columbian with brandy in it at night
etc.
I don't usualy like flavored coffees, but I've found a few which aren't
cloying. One of the best is jamacan with a hint of chocolate and some
dried orange peels.
ami silberman - janitor of lunacy
Bruce M Ong
>For those of you keeping tally, chalk another one up for the coffee lovers.
>It took me awhile to get used to it since I was originally a tea drinker, but
>now I couldn't do without it. I was wondering at what ages people started
>drinking coffee regularly. I didn't develop an appreciation for coffee until
>my mid-twenties and was wondering if those coffee haters out there may be
>converted to coffee achievers within a couple years.
>
>
>~Susan
Other than becoming a sweat hog and having a very bad stomach
ache, coffee does not help me achieve anything. The best fuel for me is
martinelli's apple juice when I am in the mood to be a serious coding
machine. The past week I had to write a 5000 line system. Without the
apple juice that comes in these wonderful little hand-grenade sized
bottles, (which my employer provides) I wont be able to get the system
to run on the 5th try.
For milder moments, I prefer tea. A good tea leaves a very
subtle after taste behind that makes you w[o|a]nder and itch for more,
like a fascinating woman. Coffee. Err, it's so uncivilized. <grin>
[oh boy. I see flames going this way already]
----
bruce dead...@cup.portal.com br...@ear.stanford.edu
InterFax, Inc. "Information Delivery Through Fax", 415-FAX-1989 ext 211
"I will stop doing this when my code reads like Mozart's music."
Bob Forsythe
>In article <133...@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> le...@lorelei.corp.Sun.COM (Laura Lemay) writes:
>>In article <133...@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> we...@toaster.Eng.Sun.COM (Robert Scott Comer) writes:
>>> The sugar-free caffine-free pepsi generation is here.
>
>>mug, I'll be your slave forever....
>
>Now THAT's a REAL drink! (Unfortunatelly, they also make
>an adulterated (sugar free) version.)
>
>
>
>Never picked up the coffee habit (yet).
>
>
>
>See ya,
>
>
>Larry lwh...@cancer.unm.edu la...@huevos.unm.edu
>
>"Caught between the longing for love
> and the struggle for the legal tender.." J. Browne
As long as we're getting into non-understandable habits here, I can't
understand how anyone can stomach softdrinks which aren't sugar free. But
then, I don't understand how anyone can ingest sugar in anything. I've got a
sixer of diet IBC in the fridge as I write this, and wouldn't consider
drinking the "other" type unless I was really thirsty and had no choice. More
than a little sugar acts like a drug on my body, so since I've stopped eating
it, I've found that it tastes really bad on the rare occasions when I do
partake. Foul stuff indeed.
Bob c/o The OTH Gang
r...@pnet01.cts.com
Meloney D Cregor
>
> As long as we're getting into non-understandable habits here, I can't
>understand how anyone can stomach softdrinks which aren't sugar free. But
I find the opposite is true. Nutrash*t is the most foul tasting concoction
ever created by human(?) kind. Trying to choke down that stuff is almost
more than a body should be asked to endure. I'll take the REAL thing,
thank you very much.
Did you ever get the feeling you've lived before...but last time you
had instructions? ..?
mel
Mitch Wagner
>In article <21...@bellcore.bellcore.com> s...@flash.UUCP (Stephen D Hawley) writes:
>>
>>Coffee? Only in ice cream (or Khalhua (yes, I know it's misspelled)),
>>preferably with Heath Bars and Ben and Jerry on the label.
>>
>created!
>
the name.... chocolate ice cream, chocolate chunks, chocolate covered
some-variety-of-nuts, other, unidentifiable, chocolate-covered matter.
That's the best ice cream that ever has been made or ever will be
made on this or any other planet.
I'll expect an immediate retraction and profuse apology from you in you
next posting. Else, This Means War.
>I was wondering at what ages people started
>drinking coffee regularly.
17.
--
Mitch
wag...@utoday.UUCP
Mitch Wagner
>There's only one way to make tea.
>
>(Don't forget to scald the pot.)
>
want to catch you doing stuff like that again! Bad, bad, bad. How dare
you? Why can't you be like all the other, *nice* teapots..... "
Oh, wait. You said *scald*?
^
Never mind.
t
--
Mitch
wag...@utoday.UUCP
John_Fereira
>
>I also have to confess that I drink an inordinate amount of soft
>drinks, and that I echo Laura Lemay's sentiments about IBC root beer.
>They also make a killer cream soda.
>
have you checked out the Sioux City Sasparilla available in the
cafeteria? Great stuff. They also make cream soda.
--
John Fereira
john%hp-...@hplabs.hp.com or jo...@hp-ptp.ptp.hp.com
Christopher Emery Lane
don't like being forced to drink it to avoid getting headaches, but
there is something uniquely satisfying about some great, hot fresh
coffee in one's hands, mouth and stomach.
I also like hot tea with milk and water. Everything else that's
non-alcoholic is too pricey to be worthwhile.
Bye now,
Chris Lane
c...@cs.duke.edu
Richard Barry Shrum
**********************
* *
* DIET COKE RULES!!! *
* *
**********************
***RICK***
The Polymath
}>In article <Mar.27.22.24....@elbereth.rutgers.edu> bsch...@elbereth.rutgers.edu (Nutsy Swugglebeannies) writes:
}>>
}>>How do you like your coffee?
}>
}>In someone else's mug. (I drink tea.)
}
}Now here my evil twin is missing one of the prime sensual experiences
}available to (wo)mankind.
[ description omitted ]
A sensual experience it may be, but the proper way to enjoy, or be
introduced to enjoying, fine coffee is other:
First, search all over town for a gourmet coffee shop that actually has
fresh roasted Jamaica Blue Mountain beans for sale. Expect to pay
~$24/pound. (There's limited space in those mountains. The Japanese have
been buying the entire crop for years and re-exporting it).
Take said beans home and grind to a fine powder consistency.
Using unbleached filter papers, put one measure of the ground coffee per
cup, plus one for the pot, in the filter.
Bring a pot of distilled water to a rolling boil.
Pour just enough of the water over the coffee to cover it. Let stand for
30 seconds.
Slowly pour the rest of the water over the coffee -- enough to fill the
filter cone (and, eventually, the pot).
Wait. (Control yourself, it's worth it).
Pour into a clean cup. Inhale over the cup. Let the aroma tickle your
brain a bit. Now, sip slowly.
If you aren't now convinced you've died and gone to heaven, you are a
tasteless barbarian and would probably be equally content with instant
Sanka(tm). Please confine your consumption to the latter ... um ...
beverage and leave the good stuff for those who appreciate the finer
things. (-:
--
The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: holl...@ttidca.tti.com)
Citicorp(+)TTI Illegitimis non
3100 Ocean Park Blvd. (213) 450-9111, x2483 Carborundum
Santa Monica, CA 90405 {csun | philabs | psivax}!ttidca!hollombe
Keith Corbett
+I started drinking coffee when I was 22 because I was one of very few
+women engineers at a nuclear power plant, and well, it was just
+something one was supposed to do, I guess. And I had to drink it
+BLACK, or I was really a sissy! :-)
I guess you didn't work at Seabrook -- there, you have to drink it
with whiskey, or you're a wuss.
Followups to ne.politics? :->
--
-- Keith Corbett 617-621-0555 x1727 Cambridge, MA, USA
UUnet: uunet!leafusa!kmc via Internet: leafusa!k...@uunet.uu.net
Uucp: mit-eddie!ileaf!kmc via Internet: k...@ileaf.com
stowe
>>In article <Mar.27.22.24....@elbereth.rutgers.edu> bsch...@elbereth.rutgers.edu (Nutsy Swugglebeannies) writes:
>>>
>>>How do you like your coffee?
>>
>>In someone else's mug. (I drink tea.)
>
>Now here my evil twin is missing one of the prime sensual experiences
>available to (wo)mankind.
>
>One must first have a cabin in the woods on a snowy day. It is essential
>that the cabin come equipped with a roaring fireplace and an attractive
>MOTAS. And a good rug. (I like Berber rugs, but I would also like to
>experience a bearskin.)
[description of sensual coffee-making deleted for brevity...]
Replace this with Real[TM] Hot Chocolate and peppermint schnopps (if desired).
NOW you're talking... :-) Chocolate is not just a major food group. It's
a way of life. *grin*
> Then top with a large
>spoonful of whipped cream. Stretch out on the rug in front of the
>fireplace and sip. Lick cream off your companion's lips...
This all remains pretty much the same. :-)
>Miriam (beats the styrofoam cup at the company cafeteria, eh?) Nadel
Why are you trying to eat styrofoam cups anyway?? Didn't your mom tell
you that stuff isn't any good for you? (*grin*)
-=-=- -=-=- -=-=-
st...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu Steady as a rock and twice as smart.
-=-=- -=-=- -=-=-
stowe
>In article <40...@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu> st...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (stowe) writes:
>>
>>YEOW! MOMMA!
>
> Hey! That's a copyrighted phrase! And, it can't be said without
>the word "slime" in the same breath! :-)
Argh! Shame on me! (Actually, I did probably mutter "slime" under my
breath, so I think I'm safe on that one...) Is Ms. DrinkH2O still
around on the net? Will I ever be forgiven by Slime Sisters?
I'm so ashamed of myself... *sigh*
Greg Bullough
>>
>>How do you like your coffee?
Greg
Greg Bullough
>spoonful of whipped cream. Stretch out on the rug in front of the
>fireplace and sip. Lick cream off your companion's lips...
coffee. I love the stuff, but kissing a person with coffee breath is
akin to kissing a smoker. Give me a dose of garlic over that *any*
day! The same goes for Orange Pekoe and Earl-Grey teas. Now chamomille
can be quite pleasant, second hand...
Greg
Bill HMRP Vajk
> How do you like your coffee?
In someone else's cup.
Bill.etc
Daniel Mocsny
>I love the stuff, but kissing a person with coffee breath is
>akin to kissing a smoker. Give me a dose of garlic over that *any*
>day!
How about kissing a *coffee smoker*? (Coffee beans will burn, won't
they?) Even with a dose of garlic over it, that flavor will cut right
through to your very soul, every time.
>Greg
75% of coffee drinkers probably approve of U.S. Military Policy
in Central America. The other 25% probably aren't aware of the
surprisingly large proportion of tarantula carcasses found in
most coffee bean shipments.
And don't forget to set your clocks differently tomorrow, whether
you eat coffee beans, boil bananas, or ship arms to contra
rebels. I can't remember which way they go, I'll just see
if my friends are two hours ahead or behind me by the end of
the week.
Actually, this whole notion of everyone marching around in
lockstep seems to undermine the dignity of the individual. I
think we should agitate for the right to set our clocks any
way we like. The real number line has enough room for everyone
to have their own unique chronological offset. Some of us don't
work very well on a 24 hour day, either. I'd like to have the
option of a few extra hours when things are getting tight. I
could squeeze them in after midnight, where they wouldn't
interfere with too many other people.
Also, this business of tossing out calendars every year is
slaughtering an unbelievable number of trees. We should adopt
the World Calendar at the earliest possible date. (That is
not a joke, it is a standardized calendar with each particular
day of the year landing on the same day of the week every
year, and every quarter is the same length. But if you get out
your calculator, you see that 7 does not divide 365 evenly.
365 mod 7 is 1, so every year you have to get rid of a day,
and on leap years you have to get rid of 2. They can't be
days of the week, so they would be holidays, called
World's Day. The annual World's Day would fall between
December 31 and January 1. Leap World's Day would land between
the end of June and the beginning of July.)
Just some random ravings...I should go to bed now...
--
Dan Mocsny Snail:
Internet: dmo...@minerva.che.uc.edu Dept. of Chemical Engng. M.L. 171
dmo...@uceng.uc.edu University of Cincinnati
513/751-6824 (home) 513/556-2007 (lab) Cincinnati, Ohio 45221-0171
Bob Forsythe
Actually I can't disagree with you because there's been research
suggesting that some people taste sweet and some bitter when they ingest
artificial sweeteners, depending upon their genetic inheritance. It's quite
possible that it tastes bad to you. To me it tastes fine, and a whole heck of
a lot better than sugar.
Nutsy Swugglebeannies
(Robert Thurlow) writes:
]Brewed from fresh-ground Columbian coffee beans and the freshest, coldest
]and purest mountain spring water brought to 95 degrees Celcius, and with
]fresh dairy cream and raw unpasturized clover honey added. It's best if
]drunk while you tear into some freshly-baked bread while the aroma of both
]substances is still making you wonder if sex really *is* the greatest
]thrill of them all ...
Are you kidding? No _way_!
Lobster tail is the greatest thrill of them all.
Mark Shaw
attractive person?
This guy from Nasa got flamed for saying that he wanted to get to know
this one attractive woman who he has seen in the health center. The
flamer was upset that no other references were made about the woman.
Only that she was attractive.
Should I date a woman only if she's rich?
Should I date a woman only if she's brilliant?
Should I date a woman only if she's got a bubbling personality?
Why should I have to leave out physically appealing? An attractive
person comes as a package. There are many aspects which cannot be
measured. Sometimes it's just the way she holds her head when
walking. It may be something deep in her personality. It's
definitely true that what I find attractive is not what everryone else
finds attractive. And that definition is not set. I'll think one
moment that I really like quality A, but not quality B. But then I'll
meet a woman with quality B and she'll be irresistable.
I will only date women which I find attractive.
Is there really anyone out there who will ask out an unattractive MOTAS?
Mark Shaw
ms...@convex.com
Robert Scott Comer
bsch...@elbereth.rutgers.edu (Nutsy Swugglebeannies) writes:
In article <100...@convex.convex.com>
thu...@convex.com (Robert Thurlow) writes:
Brewed from fresh-ground Columbian coffee beans and the freshest, coldest
and purest mountain spring water brought to 95 degrees Celcius, and with
fresh dairy cream and raw unpasturized clover honey added. It's best if
drunk while you tear into some freshly-baked bread while the aroma of both
substances is still making you wonder if sex really *is* the greatest
thrill of them all ...
Are you kidding? No _way_!
Lobster tail is the greatest thrill of them all.
Oooo, yuck. How can chewing on a lobster's butt be better than sex or
coffee? You've been reading too much net news, Nutsy!
As to Rob, he's got his head screwed on right, the rest of you listen
to him. The subgroup that cannot deal with coffee may substitute home
brew hot chocolate...
scott out
Dave Mooney
Although a 50-50 Kenyan-Costa Rican blend is not too shabby, and somewhat
smoother than pure Kenyan. And Brazilian is complete poo.
However, in the name of Political Correctness, remember to boycot Salvadoran
coffee, and always use unbleached or permanent filters. Those who are
Very Politically Correct should try Bridgehead coffee which is from
Nicaragua and the Dominican Republic, and distributed by Oxfam. A large
proportion of the money goes back to the peasants who grow the coffee.
But all this is pretty distant from soc.singledom, no? How do *you* use
coffee as a social tool? It's great for inviting people out for -- it
seems much more intimate than other social beverages. I mean, "Let's
have a beer" seems less intimate than "let's have coffee". And I have
formed more friendships by inviting people to my room for coffee than by
any other single means. A cup of hot Java and Pat Metheny Group on the
stereo is very conducive to getting to know people.
dave
(And BTW, for us cultural illiterates, what it IBC rootbeer? I thought
that A&W was supposed to be the epitome of rootbeerdom...)
The Stallion
>
[stuff deleted]
>Also, this business of tossing out calendars every year is
>slaughtering an unbelievable number of trees. We should adopt
>the World Calendar at the earliest possible date. (That is
>not a joke, it is a standardized calendar with each particular
>day of the year landing on the same day of the week every
>year, and every quarter is the same length. But if you get out
>your calculator, you see that 7 does not divide 365 evenly.
>365 mod 7 is 1, so every year you have to get rid of a day,
>and on leap years you have to get rid of 2. They can't be
>days of the week, so they would be holidays, called
>World's Day. The annual World's Day would fall between
>December 31 and January 1. Leap World's Day would land between
>the end of June and the beginning of July.)
>
I saw somewhere, I think buried in a phone book, a grid like those old
multiplication tables that had the same type of set-up for years. I think
I remember the years not being different after about 10 in a row so you
could technically reuse the same lets say 10 calenders, every 10 years.
By the way it's exactly 2, whoops no 3a.m. now.
__ __________________________
|\'@/ ) Internet: ja...@fps.com <Coming to you live and >
/ \ UUCP: ...!ucsd!celerity!james <impersonal from the >
// ( _ \ Tactical Strike: 33'lat. 117'long. <sunny shores of San Diego.>
// / \\/ THE //Sure we have white powder, //
/ \ ITALIAN STALLION //and I wouldn't ride in it either. //
If it's yours you take credit, otherwise I said it; or so I've heard.
Daniel Mocsny
>Will someone *PLEASE* tell me why it's wrong to want to date an
>attractive person?
Because, Mark, if you want to date any person more than any other
person, then the rejected person is going to get pissed (assuming
you're worth a piss :-). So the rejected person is going to come
to terms with that rejection any way that doesn't involve admitting
to her/himself that (s)he could somehow be less than the most
lovable person on earth (and pointlessly, I might add, since *I*
am the most lovable person on earth). Therefore, when rejected
person determines what turns you on, rejected person will immediately
try to invalidate your turn-on, labeling you "shallow", or telling
you you have "bought into" a bunch of media programming, and
explaining how *you* can't possibly have any idea of what will make
*you* the happiest.
Let's be honest...rejection is an enormously difficult thing to deal
with. The temptation to invalidate another's desire structure is
correspondingly enormous. But everyone has a desire structure---I've
never met *anyone* who didn't like some people more than other
people---and none of us care to have other people tell us what
*we* should want. But things surely are different when the shoe
is on the other foot...
The other part of the problem, if you are a visually-oriented male,
is that your desire structure is colliding with a lot of negative
programming that women are subjected/have subjected themselves to.
At the risk of completely alienating the 5% of net.women who will
still talk to me :-) let me try to explain what I'm talking about.
"They" have done studies where groups of men and women were shown
photos of different women and asked to pick out the ones they
considered most attractive. Almost invariably, the women tend to pick
out the thinnest women as the most "attractive," whereas men
tend to prefer women of normal weight. What is going on here? Well,
assuming these are het women, they aren't really attracted to other
women in any biological way, so their concept of what constitutes
an attractive woman must be *entirely* the result of cultural
learning.
And we don't need to look very far to see the source of
this learning---the media. But don't forget that the media segregates
more strongly along gender lines than any Voortrekker's wildest
apartheid dream. For most men, picking up a women's magazine is
like traveling to a strange and foreign land. The times when I
have done this, I have been amused, perplexed, and appalled. But
generally not titillated. 'Nuff said.
So when women run down men for finding "attractive" women
"attractive," I believe that to a rough approximation they are
confusing their own 100%-media-derived notions of female
attractiveness with whatever motivates men. Since women are
affected by their own media so strongly, (strongly enough to
have mistaken notions of what men find attractive in women)
they very easily assume that men must be equally affected by
the media.
Now I am the first to admit that the media influences men. But
the critical difference here is that het men *start off* being
attracted to women, often at least partially on the basis of
women's physical characteristics. Therefore, since they have
some inherent notions of what is attractive and not, the
degree to which they can be shifted is less than the degree to
which women can be shifted.
We see an exactly analogous phenonemon occuring with men's
perception of what women find attractive in men, don't we?
Since het men don't have any inherent concept of male attractiveness,
they can only go by the self-reinforcing hearsay and media
images they pick up second-hand. So we see men telling each
other that all women want rich men who treat women like dirt,
and after a while the men start to believe each other.
>This guy from Nasa got flamed for saying that he wanted to get to know
>this one attractive woman who he has seen in the health center. The
>flamer was upset that no other references were made about the woman.
>Only that she was attractive.
Consider what you are saying here. When you use the word "attractive",
you and almost everyone else immediately assume that means
*physically* attractive. But what is "attractive"? "Attractive"
means "capable of attracting." It doesn't say *anything* about
what the attracted person finds attractive.
>Should I date a woman only if she's rich?
>Should I date a woman only if she's brilliant?
>Should I date a woman only if she's got a bubbling personality?
You could do worse. :-)
>Why should I have to leave out physically appealing? An attractive
Because it is identifiable and threatening. Women exclude men
who aren't "dangerous," and men give them grief for that on the
net. Men exclude women who aren't "attractive," and women give
them grief for that on the net. As though any of us could browbeat
anyone into liking us! I am sure that no matter how many times
Teri Miller gets flamed for telling us she likes "dangerous" men,
she will still react to them exactly the same way.
>person comes as a package. There are many aspects which cannot be
>measured. Sometimes it's just the way she holds her head when
>walking. It may be something deep in her personality. It's
>definitely true that what I find attractive is not what everryone else
>finds attractive. And that definition is not set. I'll think one
You have your own feelings about what is attractive. Each woman
is able to evoke a unique emotional reaction in you. Your experience
is then real to you and undeniable. If you are in touch with your
feelings, then you need not apologize to anyone about them, because
you can't help them. For you to apologize about your feelings is for
you to apologize about who you are. That is something I avoid.
>Is there really anyone out there who will ask out an unattractive MOTAS?
I am quite sure of that. Some people will date for political or
social gain. A person may not be sexually or personally attractive
to you, but may be politically attractive, if she is well-positioned
in the right circles. So I guess if we define "attractive" liberally,
we might conclude that the act of asking out is ex post facto (ooh,
Latin!) evidence of some sort of prior attraction, although it may
only have to do with externalities.
Long live "Yo! MTV Raps."
John TERRANOVA
>my mid-twenties and was wondering if those coffee haters out there may be
>converted to coffee achievers within a couple years.
Well, I'm pushing that mid-twenty area (23) and I'm a devout
coffee-hater. One of my sisters tried to get me to drink coffee.
She said "Don't drink it black. That's gross. Drown it in
cream and sugar first." Didn't work. Still too much coffee
flavor.
>~Susan
-----------------------+----------------------------+-------------------------
John Terranova | What the Hell do I know? | I speak/type for me
joh...@microsoft.uucp | I come from Waunakee! | and no one else.
-----------------------+----------------------------+-------------------------
"You look so good; you feel good, too. When they see you shake it, baby
everybody's gonna pay attention to you and you and you." --Gerard, Shake It
Kenn Barry
>attractive person?
Simple.
It isn't wrong.
Kayembee
Sharon Lynne Fisher
>I will only date women which I find attractive.
>Is there really anyone out there who will ask out an unattractive MOTAS?
The problem comes when somebody defines "attractive" too narrowly. Yes,
I suspect it's reasonably to not want to date somebody with oozing, running
pustules, for example. Or whatever. The problem comes in when you've got
guys saying, "I can't find any women to date." Oh? Really? *None*? "Well,
none that are blond and have big tits and are 15 pounds under the ideal
weight for their height and shorter than me and have blue eyes and a pale
complexion and pink nipples and...." etc. One wonders if the guys setting
up such stringent requirements for their prospective girlfriends can meet
such equivalent stringent requirements as well.
The problem, too, is that word "attractive." Someone is attractive when
you are attracted to them. That doesn't mean, however, that they physically
meet the Common American Standard for Beautiful Women (ISO number pending),
for example -- you can find them "attractive" because of their wonderful
personality, or their intelligence, or their great capacity for love, or
their ability to suck a golf ball through a garden hose.
If a major criterion for a woman is her looks, what happens when she gets
older? If she happens to gain weight? If she gets injured? Will you
drop her?
--
"I just know that something good is gonna happen
I don't know when
But just saying it could even make it happen..."
Mark Shaw
>That doesn't mean, however, that they physically
>meet the Common American Standard for Beautiful Women (ISO number pending),
I refer to this as the "Vogue" standard. That is, does it look like
she stepped out of Vogue magazine? It's not even worth it for me to
approach a woman like this. For one thing, the looks are just part of
the package. Another reason is that these women get lots of guys on
them, guys that better fit the woman's stereotype of the perfect male.
They also get harrassed so much that I may be just another slime in
the crowd.
>If a major criterion for a woman is her looks, what happens when she gets
>older? If she happens to gain weight? If she gets injured? Will you
>drop her?
The stereotyping of men and women is unbelieveable. For guys, it's
women with big breasts. Just pick up any of the available girlie
magazines. I usually don't agree with them. For women, the favorites
are big muscles and dicks. And this stereotype is fueled on by the
popular trash romance novels.
Looks are just one of my criterrion. I am not willing to commit to a
lifetime on a first date. Are you? Once I make that commitment, I'll
stick to it, but until then, yes, I may just drop her if she develops
a bad case of, how was that you put it, puss?
Mark
ms...@convex.com
Daniel Mocsny
>I suspect it's reasonably to not want to date somebody with oozing, running
>pustules, for example.
As a hired public relations gun for the Persons with Oozing, Running Pustules
Anti-Defamation League, my duty is to inform you that such slanderous
diatribe may well get you slapped with a restraining order so fast it will
make your zits pop.
>The problem comes in when you've got
>guys saying, "I can't find any women to date." Oh? Really? *None*? "Well,
>none that are blond and have big tits and are 15 pounds under the ideal
>weight for their height and shorter than me and have blue eyes and a pale
>complexion and pink nipples and...." etc.
Let's analyze this "problem." Sure, the man who finds himself happiest
with such an unlikely woman is probably going to spend a lot of evenings
cloistered at home. But what if he's "tried" other women and found they
just aren't going to cut it? I agree, for a man with such standards to
complain about the lack of satisfactory women is just as irritating to
women as the converse complaint from women is to men. The fact is, for
some oddball reason, each sex has a minority that happens to be
disproportionately attractive to the opposite sex. Sure beats the heck
out of me why that should be so.
>One wonders if the guys setting
>up such stringent requirements for their prospective girlfriends can meet
>such equivalent stringent requirements as well.
1. One wonders where Sharon Fisher gets the idea that these guys are
setting up requirements. It's more like they are trying to convey an
idea of what attributes in women they find most attractive. Sharon,
haven't you been on dates with men that were about as exciting as
algebra class? And on dates with other men who blew your socks off?
Now I am not going to question your feelings, or tell you that you
have the power to change them, or that you should exercise that
power in some way that benefits the nerds of the world. Your feelings
are your feelings. If you find that your feelings have some clearly
describable locus (such as some attribute of a man that excites you),
then I invite you to describe them. Of course, insecure people of
both sexes find such talk from The Other deeply threatening. But like
an unpleasant medicine, hearing such talk can be very beneficial.
2. With respect to your wondering, if we define "equivalent" narrowly,
I can only sigh wistfully and say, "If only." I can introduce you to
women whose physical attributes are such that I find them highly
attractive in that sense (it's only one sense of many, for a thinking
man, anyway). Their husbands/SOs/boyfriends/POSSLQs, on the other hand,
while on average being somewhat better than average in the looks
department, show a much wider distribution. I recall one aerobics
instructor telling me she admired my body (not so surpising, given
that we have similar body types and development, neglecting the
obvious differences due to gender), and wouldn't it be great if I
would train her husband in the weight room so he would have a body
like mine. Right, honey. Well, the compliment was nice, anyway.
3. So I can probably conclude that women as a class probably do not
have physical appearance "requirements" as stringent as men do. Or
at least they aren't as uniform as men's sometime seem to be. So
see what happens? The average Joe out there *does* have a shot,
albeit a slight one, of landing a female genetic anomaly. In fact,
many average men have been "spoiled" by dating such a woman in the
past. They got feelings from that woman that they could clearly
attribute to her physicality, and they know for a fact that they
won't have exactly those feelings again unless they find a woman who is
similar.
But it gets down to practicality after a while. To use a grotesque
automotive analogy (grotesque because that's what automobiles are
:-), if you drive a Ferrari you will probably find a Yugo to be
somewhat lacking thereafter. But obviously, the world happens to
have a lot of Yugos and not many Ferraris. So the people who can
learn to find happiness with Yugos have a greater probability of
being happy than people who insist on holding out for a Ferrari.
Some people will only be happy if they can drive a Ferrari. Obviously,
I don't care to hear such prima donnas complain...
>If a major criterion for a woman is her looks, what happens when she gets
>older? If she happens to gain weight? If she gets injured? Will you
>drop her?
The feelings a man was getting due to her looks (and feel,
let's not leave out the second critical aspect of the user interface),
he won't be getting any more. So the question is, what will he do?
Personally, I think dumping the babe would be bad form, especially if
he had years of those great feelings with her. That's why we have the
whole idea of commitment, anyway. At some point you have to stop
evaluating a person, and take a gamble on the likely long-term
cost-benefit trade they represent to you. The reason we make commitment
gambles is to get some guarantee in return, after all. I wouldn't
dump a woman for getting injured or getting older, because I am
subject to exactly the same probabilities as she in those areas.
Weight gain? Nobody can live their entire life in absolute peak
physical condition. But maintaining normal weight is not very hard,
provide you eat the right foods and get a reasonable amount of
exercise (and, of course, you didn't get screwed over too badly by
genetics, but genetics don't change). If the weight gain was the
result of injury, then it falls under the injury category, a problem
to be helped through, or accommodated long term. If the weight gain
is resulting from a deliberate lifestyle change, then that is a
more difficult situation, because here the woman is purposely doing
something that is taking value away from me. If I can live with
the lost value, I will. But I hope I don't have to make such a
choice. I hope I don't ever hurt another person that way, either.
Of course, sometimes weight gain results temporarily from something
that benefits a relationship---for example, having children, or
having to work too many hours to advance a career. This is different
from deciding to let oneself go and become a couch potato.
To my mind, saying looks don't matter because they don't last, misses
a point. Computers obsolesce, cars rust, houses burn down, etc., and
yet people still want, still get excited about these material
objects. We know that all things pass away in the flow of relentlessly
increasing entropy. That helps us keep the feelings we get from
these things in check. But it does not change the fact that
we get feelings from things---and people---because of what---and who---
they are *right now*. (Carpe diem, and all that.)
If you meet your partner for life when you
are 30, you will have feelings now that won't be exactly the same
as the feelings you will have when you are 70. But then you will
still have each other, along with the memories of youthful passion
that consumed you, that united you, and that grew like a great
tree by a stream, rooting itself deeper, and sending its branches
higher, with every passing year.
Charles Linsley
>meet the Common American Standard for Beautiful Women (ISO number pending),
No, no, no. If it's ISO, it must be the Common _International_ Standard for
Beautiful Women. Now, the CASBW could be a subset of the CISBW, the way
ASCII is a subset of some international (CCITT?) standard. But to be officially
recognised by ISO, it probably needs to be adopted by ANSI first. Knowing a
little about how these things work, I don't think this should be a problem.
ISO will take at least twice as long as ANSI to adopt the final standard,
even with a head start. Considering regional differences in physiology,
maybe even longer than that.
>"I just know that something good is gonna happen
>I don't know when
>But just saying it could even make it happen..."
I like this .sig. Of course, some net.personalities will disagree with it.
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
Chuck
Work: chu...@masscomm.chips.com (No news :-()
Fun: clin...@netcom.uucp OR netcom!clin...@apple.com
Disclaimer: If you think these opinions are the official policy of anyone
except myself, I have a very nice bridge I'd love to sell to you.
Robert Thurlow
>If a major criterion for a woman is her looks, what happens when she gets
>older? If she happens to gain weight? If she gets injured? Will you
>drop her?
Excellent point. I'm reminded of a woman I met at an amputee ski clinic
at Whistler Mountain. She'd lost her leg at the hip due to cancer, and
was just getting back into enjoying life again at the clinic. She was
fun, happy, pleasant and attractive, and yet her husband wanted to get
a divorce. There's a few other things that came into play, like the
tough times that must have been brought on by the cancer, the uncertainty
of the future, and previous unresolved problems, but her appearance was
likely at the top of the list, to hear it told. That reminded me of
how different people react to things like that, because to a first
approximation, her being without a leg would simply not be an issue
for me. That's been confirmed since, too. I guess that's why I wound
up doing volunteer work with an amputee group ...
Rob T
--
--
Rob Thurlow, thu...@convex.com
Coming to you from Texas, where a Smith & Wesson beats four aces any day.
Robert Thurlow
>.... They got feelings from that woman that they could clearly
>attribute to her physicality, and they know for a fact that they
>won't have exactly those feelings again unless they find a woman who is
>similar.
A point:
My first serious girlfriend was 5'2", a bit wide in the rear, had a cute
face, and 'C'-cup sized breasts. Now, I'm a leg man (notwithstanding
the last post :-), and I really didn't expect to be attracted to that
'shape' in a woman. I expected someone maybe slimmer and certainly
taller. Guess what? It wasn't an issue; once love clicked, I found her
very sexy. I learned to like all the stuff she had, and what's more,
I have found that body shape interesting ever since. That pretty much
ended my worries about finding a woman with a 'perfect' body.
Has this kind of thing happened to you, Dan?
Laura Lemay
> In article <22...@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
> dmmo...@lion.waterloo.edu (Dave Mooney) writes:
>
> (And BTW, for us cultural illiterates, what it IBC rootbeer? I thought
> that A&W was supposed to be the epitome of rootbeerdom...)
>
> you more about IBC.
Oh, all right. If you insist.
Actually, I don't know much about IBC root beer myself. You get it in
the more selective places, and it must be national because I've sought
it out in Boston, Florida, and here in CA. It comes in dark dark
brown bottles, no labels. The bottles have *real* caps, the kind of
cap you have to get off with an opener or your teeth; none of this
fancy screw top stuff. IBC root beer is not like soda-quality
rootbeers. It's thick and kind of spicy. And, if you pour it into a
glass, (preferably frosted), it had a head. A real head. Not a wimpy
soda head. It is definitely one of the best rootbeers I've ever had.
Of course, the best rootbeer I ever had was when I was eleven. Let me
tell you about it. I was on the coast of maine, in august, waiting
for the two o'clock ferry to Vinalhaven, which is a tiny little island
my mother likes to vacation on. I had a half hour to kill so I
wandered into this little shop on Main street. It was the sort of
five-and-dime which has an authentic soda jerk off to one side. I
ordered a root beer. The soda jerk took a mug, and held it under a
tap such as one sees in bars. The tap sputtered. The "jerk"
explained to me that he'd have to change the keg. The keg?!? Yes,
the keg. Whatever that root beer was, it came in a keg. I waited.
And I got the most wonderful root beer I have ever had. I loved that
root beer. I cherished that root beer. I coveted that root beer. I
had five of them before the ferry arrived. But I still have no idea
what **made** the root beer. How depressing.
As to A&W root beer, well, it'll do in a pinch, but its hardly anything
CLOSE to what real rootbeer is supposed to be. Drinking A&W as your
only rootbeer is sort of like eating Burker King Whoppers as your only
hamburger. It'll do if you don't feel like going any better, but its
not something you look foreward to.
I am a root beer snob.
*********************************************************
Laura Lemay lemay%lorele...@sun.com
Redhead. Drummer. Geek. sun!lemay
*********************************************************
Monica Waldman
>How do you like your coffee?
I prefer it to still be warm when I pour it into my enema bag.
--
Monica L. Waldman lcc!mon...@seas.ucla.edu, mon...@locus.com
...!{uunet|att|ucla-se|turnkey|alphacm}!lcc!monica
larry@huevos
>
>Now here my evil twin is missing one of the prime sensual experiences
>available to (wo)mankind.
>
>One must first have a cabin in the woods on a snowy day. It is essential
>that the cabin come equipped with a roaring fireplace and an attractive
[ sensual experience deleted...]
>spoonful of whipped cream. Stretch out on the rug in front of the
>fireplace and sip. Lick cream off your companion's lips...
>
Yeah, this sounds prime indeed...
But it strikes me that you don't really need the coffee...
Larry Hays lwh...@cancer.unm.edu la...@huevos.unm.edu
But then I am willing to be proved wrong.........
The Stallion
>
>
> **********************
> * *
> * DIET COKE RULES!!! *
> * *
> **********************
>
> ***RICK***
>
Okay if you really need the rules:
1) shake can vigorously
2) aim at a not-to-good-friend
3) open can in the usual manner (still pointed away)
4) drop the can and run like hell
Warning: Diet Coke was not ment to be taken internally,
it has been known to cause brain defects and excessive
use of astericks.
Alan J. Holsberg
Mark, isn't beauty/attractiveness a realitive(spelling) trait?
If I remember the quote "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", to me
this means that anyone I find attractive might not be attractive to you.
If you just look on the "surface" you might not really see the actuall
person, meaning to be a beautiful person one doesn't need to look like a
god/godess. To me a person with a beautifull body and no actual redeaming
personality is just a shell.
I would rather date someone that stimulated my mind as well as
my body, I like to talk to the woman that I date.
This is in no way a flame, just a personal opinion.
Signed Me!! Alan
--
Alan Holsberg E-MAIL- UUCP {...!rutgers!}princeton!mccc!ajh
I have no intention of telling you my real name!
Disclaimer: MCCC has no knowledge of me, so they don't care what I say!!
Usenet file owner
>In article <16...@well.sf.ca.us> s...@well.UUCP (Sharon Lynne Fisher) writes:
>>That doesn't mean, however, that they physically
>>meet the Common American Standard for Beautiful Women (ISO number pending),
> ^^^^^^^^ ^^^
>No, no, no. If it's ISO, it must be the Common _International_ Standard for
>Beautiful Women. Now, the CASBW could be a subset of the CISBW, the way
>ASCII is a subset of some international (CCITT?) standard. But to be officially
>recognised by ISO, it probably needs to be adopted by ANSI first. Knowing a
>little about how these things work, I don't think this should be a problem.
>ISO will take at least twice as long as ANSI to adopt the final standard,
>even with a head start. Considering regional differences in physiology,
>maybe even longer than that.
"The wonderful thing about standards is that there are so many to choose
from. Furthermore, if you don't like any of them, you can always wait
for next year's version."
-- Tannebaum, "Computer Networks"
Say, can we credit Sharon with the newest net.acronym? I *like* CASBW.
(I suspect that there are fundamental incompatabilities between CASBW
and any international standard. Maybe the CISBW can incorporate
alternate standards at a lower (regional) level, kind of like ISO OSI
with IEEE 803.3, 803.4, 803.5)
Zach "but *I* think she's attractive" Frey
"I want you to know that, if I get out of this and you don't ... I *am*
going to date your sister." -- Tango and Cash
Thomas M. Hundt
|How do you like your coffee?
Regular.
>Miriam (beats the styrofoam cup at the company cafeteria, eh?) Nadel
(Sure does.)
Holly:
|Why are you trying to eat styrofoam cups anyway?? Didn't your mom tell
|you that stuff isn't any good for you? (*grin*)
I prefer paper cups... I'm told the styrofoam releases some gas
that's bad for the atmosphere... (is this still the popular
assumption?) Besides, I prefer paper over plastic in general.
(Even though it gets hot!)
Dan:
|Also, this business of tossing out calendars every year is
|slaughtering an unbelievable number of trees. We should adopt
They'll grow back. (I save mine, of course. Nice pictures.)
-Tom Hundt
Robert Scott Comer
(And BTW, for us cultural illiterates, what it IBC rootbeer? I thought
that A&W was supposed to be the epitome of rootbeerdom...)
Well, I am not too cultured and the Redheaded Drummer can tell
you more about IBC. But, do you think that Coors is the last
word in beer? Just saying A&W and rootbeer in the same sentence
while implying that they are related is a terrible thing. You
better watch out.
Coffee is a fun social tool. Too bad the local bookstore/cafe
only has only one flavor of coffee. It's ok, but not Kenya AA.
They serve all kinda other strange stuff like capacinno and
espresso. Yuppie drinks. Yuck. Bookstore/cafes are great
because I can tell right off if someone shares at least two of
my favorite vices: books and coffee. You can check out other
things by seeing what kinda books they like.
scott out
Dave Mooney
>> (And BTW, for us cultural illiterates, what it IBC rootbeer? I thought
>> that A&W was supposed to be the epitome of rootbeerdom...)
>
Coors is not beer. Coors is Lake Erie in a bottle. (And anyway, someone
who doesn't drink Salvadoran coffee for political reasons isn't going to
drink Coors.) I *do* drink Red Baron when I need a beer, Upper Canada when
I'm feeling rich and Black Label when I'm feeling trendy. Coors, ick.
> Just saying A&W and rootbeer in the same sentence
> while implying that they are related is a terrible thing. You
> better watch out.
... you better not cry ...
> Bookstore/cafes are great
> because I can tell right off if someone shares at least two of
> my favorite vices: books and coffee. You can check out other
> things by seeing what kinda books they like.
How very peculiar. Just last week, some friends and I were discussing
where the most romantic place to Meet Somebody would be. One person
mentioned a jazz club, another person mentioned the art gallery in
Brussels, and I thought it would be at a Book City or at Longhouse Books
in Toronto. And for the same reasons that you mentioned. Although now
that you mentioned it, a bookstore-slash-coffeeshop would be even better.
Now I can't wait for May to roll around, when I'll be back in the big city
again...
dave
sil...@m.cs.uiuc.edu
>Will someone *PLEASE* tell me why it's wrong to want to date an
>attractive person?
>Should I date a woman only if she's rich?
>Should I date a woman only if she's brilliant?
>Should I date a woman only if she's got a bubbling personality?
>Why should I have to leave out physically appealing?
not dumb). Everyone on this net thinks that they have a bubbling
personality. Dating a woman only if she is rich is sort of a moot point,
it is something that few men will admitt to. A woman dating only rich
men is justified by expressing what joie de vrie they have etc.
Not everyone on the net thinks that they are attractive.
Thus, refusal to date unattractive people is personal.
ami silberman - janitor of lunacy
"no glot, clome Fliday"
(half-a-smiley on this one folks)
Teri Miller
> As long as we're getting into non-understandable habits here, I can't
>understand how anyone can stomach softdrinks which aren't sugar free. But
>then, I don't understand how anyone can ingest sugar in anything. I've got a
>sixer of diet IBC in the fridge as I write this, and wouldn't consider
>drinking the "other" type unless I was really thirsty and had no choice. More
>than a little sugar acts like a drug on my body, so since I've stopped eating
>it, I've found that it tastes really bad on the rare occasions when I do
>partake. Foul stuff indeed.
Hmmm, what about those of us who have bad reactions to Nutrasweet? I
avoid that stuff like the plague. Besides giving me stomachaches, making
me hungry, and sometimes triggering my asthma, I just don't find it very
satisfying.
'Course, I suppose I'm probably the original sugar junkie - Double Rainbow
and the Prolific Oven like me a lot!
John_Fereira
everything you always wanted to know about IBC root beer and
finally writes:
>
>I am a root beer snob.
>
>*********************************************************
>Laura Lemay lemay%lorele...@sun.com
>Redhead. Drummer. Geek. sun!lemay
>*********************************************************
You're going to need new signature. Here you go...
--
*********************************************************
Laura Lemay lemay%lorele...@sun.com
Redhead. Drummer. Geek. Root Beer Snob. sun!lemay
*********************************************************
John Fereira
john%hp-...@hplabs.hp.com or jo...@hp-ptp.ptp.hp.com
Mark Shaw
> Mark, isn't beauty/attractiveness a realitive(spelling) trait?
Yes, I was hoping that my original posting, after the first
statement, would make it clear that I thought "beauty is more than
skin deep" (cliche city). But I maintain that I want to date women
which *I* find attractive. I do not want to make a public list, but
physical beauty is one of the things I look for. It sometimes is the
only reason why I meet a particular woman.
How many out there have heard the line, "You will meet a tall,
dark handsome strangerr."?
Mark
ms...@convex.com
Teddy Panarto
>attractive person?
>
>Is there really anyone out there who will ask out an unattractive MOTAS?
If you already know the person, (provided that he/she is nice) then why not.
You know, as a friend, appearance is not important.
But, if a person meets an unattractive total stranger, would that person
think,"Hmm, maybe (he/she) is nice, so I'll start the conversation..."
or something in that direction? (which leads to dating, as an example)
Maybe that person will, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Let's face it, most of us will look at a total stranger on the way he/she
looks. It doesn't mean that we wouldn't be friends with them.
Some people will get the wrong idea by reading this, and I'd like to point
out something.
Your personality makes you beautiful as a person.
Note: The above posting is written in a relaxed manner, no preaching
intended. :-)
Daniel Mocsny
>dmo...@minerva.che.uc.edu (Daniel Mocsny) writes:
>>.... They got feelings from that woman that they could clearly
>>attribute to her physicality, and they know for a fact that they
>>won't have exactly those feelings again unless they find a woman who is
>>similar.
>
>A point:
>
>My first serious girlfriend
What, you only dated comediennes before that?
>I expected someone maybe slimmer and certainly taller.
You care about height? That hasn't been much of a
factor to me, and I've dated women from <5' to >6'. I'll even
go for the metric sizes.
> Guess what? It wasn't an issue; once love clicked, I found her
>very sexy. I learned to like all the stuff she had, and what's more,
>I have found that body shape interesting ever since. That pretty much
>ended my worries about finding a woman with a 'perfect' body.
>
>Has this kind of thing happened to you, Dan?
What *hasn't* happened to me? :-) Everything I write about comes
from my experiences. The only meaningful definition of 'perfect'
is what is perfect for you. If you let someone else tell you what
is 'perfect,' you are probably making a mistake.
But I am curious here. While you 'learned to like all the stuff
she had' (nifty phrase, there), did you get *exactly* the same
feelings you would have gotten from a different woman with a
drastically different body? While you may be perfectly satisfied
with the feelings you get from one as opposed to another, the
*particular* feelings I get from a woman do have something to do
with her physicality. That doesn't mean I'm looking for
cookie-cutter clones.
>Coming to you from Texas, where a Smith & Wesson beats four aces any day.
Coming to you from Cincinnati, where pornographic magazines are not
on public display.
Sharon Lynne Fisher
>(I suspect that there are fundamental incompatabilities between CASBW
>and any international standard. Maybe the CISBW can incorporate
>alternate standards at a lower (regional) level, kind of like ISO OSI
>with IEEE 803.3, 803.4, 803.5)
Absolutely the international and American standards would be different.
Weight and presence of body hair are two differing parameters that I can
think of right away...
--
Sharon Lynne Fisher
Dan, I'm not necessarily talking about the guys who went on dates with
women and then found them to be as exciting as algebra class. (This was
a confusing analogy for me, because I *loved* algebra, but I think I know
what you mean.) At least they tried. It's the guys who won't try, who
refuse to date anyone who isn't blonde/slender/big titted/ whatever.
I'm surprised to see that you think it's easy to maintain one's weight, and
disappointed that you seem to feel that if a woman gains weight, she's
doing it to "get" the other person ("purposely doing something that is taking
value away from me"). Someone who weighs more is automatically
valued less? Bleah. That's the sort of attitude I'm complaining about.
Greg Skinner
>Huh. Well, I enjoy math(s) too, but not quite as much as I enjoy
>(some) women. Perhaps I should have said *abstract* algebra.
>Betcha didn't enjoy that too much. :-)
I loved abstract algebra. It was fun! I loved linear algebra even
more. Everyone I've spoken to about it was either bored by it (is
Laura Creighton still around?) or hated it.
oops! this is soc.singles, not soc.math :-)
--gregbo
Jim Vlcek
``The problem comes in when you've got guys saying, "I can't find any
women to date." Oh? Really? *None*? "Well, none that are blond and
have big tits and are 15 pounds under the ideal weight for their
height and shorter than me and have blue eyes and a pale complexion
and pink nipples and...." etc. One wonders if the guys setting up such
stringent requirements for their prospective girlfriends can meet such
equivalent stringent requirements as well.''
Sharon, has it not yet occurred to you that your legendary
"men-with-infinite-requirements" are nothing more than mythical
creatures - just like the infamous "women-who-secretly-desire-to-be-
beaten-and-raped" and the "women-who-only-date-assholes"? We should
call you "Straw Man Sharon".
(I was gonna include Bigfoot and Nessie in that list, but then people
might think I was arguing that these categories _do_ exist...)
Jim Vlcek (vl...@caf.mit.edu vl...@athena.mit.edu)
Pete Kovach
>I'm surprised to see that you think it's easy to maintain one's weight, and
>disappointed that you seem to feel that if a woman gains weight, she's
>doing it to "get" the other person
I do not think Dan said it was "easy" to maintain ones weight nor did he
imply that. It is most definately difficult to maintain ones weight,
especially at a proper muscle/fat ratio - thus one needs a "drive" to
work to maintain it. Those who lack or loose that just have a different
outlook on life than those with that drive and thus may or may not be as
attractive to those with that drive.
>It's the guys who won't try, who
>refuse to date anyone who isn't blonde/slender/big titted/ whatever
These are all just issues about a persons appearance one might find
attractive. Anyone who denies that there are physical attrributes about
people that attract them are lying to themselves. These are FIRST
IMPRESSION issues. Once a person gets to know someone, these will very
likely be less important. I have dated people who are definately not my
"ideal" because they were really neat/fun/interesting people once I got to
know them. But I can't read minds so some physical attraction is bound to
be involved in any situation where I do not already know the person.
Peter Kovach
Facation - A vacation of the mind
Internet: kov...@src.honeywell.com
Jonathan Leech
>Sharon, has it not yet occurred to you that your legendary
>"men-with-infinite-requirements" are nothing more than mythical
Perhaps you should learn to recognize hyperbole.
--
Jon Leech (le...@cs.unc.edu) __@/
``Before I refuse to take your questions, I have an opening statement.''
- Ronald Reagan
Jon T. Adams
>rootbeers. It's thick and kind of spicy. And, if you pour it into a
>glass, (preferably frosted), it had a head. A real head. Not a wimpy
>soda head. It is definitely one of the best rootbeers I've ever had.
>
>Laura Lemay lemay%lorele...@sun.com
>Redhead. Drummer. Geek. sun!lemay
>*********************************************************
"IBC Rootbeer gives Great Head!"
- Bumper sticker not yet seen on San Diego Freeway
--
Jon Trent Adams, NW6H | "Amateur Radio isn't Everything;
J...@hydra.jpl.nasa.gov | It's the ONLY thing..." - JTA
These are just OPINIONS, ok?!? | Ladies! >Single homeowner w/convertible<
"Shove it into RUN-8 and we'll see what this baby can do!" - JTA
J.R. Stoner
As for the IBC sodas, I usually like mine served with a pepper cheesesteak
hogie (south Philly style). There's a place that serves both in San Jose
I like (Calvin's).
--
J.R. (Use the Source, Luke) Stoner
"Dying is easy, | asg...@omni.com
comedy | asg...@cpro.uucp
is hard." | ...{apple,sgi}!omni!asgard
J.R. Stoner
;In article <31...@uwm.edu> Susan Kenzler writes:
;>In article <21...@bellcore.bellcore.com> Stephen D Hawley writes:
;>YES! Coffee Heath Bar Crunch is quite possibly the best ice cream ever
;>created!
;Wrongo! Ben&Jerry's New York Chocolate Fudge Chunk... least I think it's
;the name.... chocolate ice cream, chocolate chunks, chocolate covered
;some-variety-of-nuts, other, unidentifiable, chocolate-covered matter.
;That's the best ice cream that ever has been made or ever will be
;made on this or any other planet.
;I'll expect an immediate retraction and profuse apology from you in you
;next posting. Else, This Means War.
Our shots. My fiance seems to like Double Rainbow Green Tea. Me, I like
D.R. Peanut Butter Fudge Swirl (In Ultra Chocolate).
;>I was wondering at what ages people started
;>drinking coffee regularly.
;17.
Eight.
Dracula
*bunch* of sugar, add in some root beer extract, yeast, and I think maybe
water :-). Then you take this stuff and put it in Grolsch bottles. (The
container has to be pressure tight, don't even think about using a plastic 2-
liter bottle.)
Then you sit it in a room temperature corner for a week. Then you can put it in
the fridge. Watch out when you open one of these babies, do it s-l-o-w-l-y,
and don't even think about shaking it. Once I put one in my car for a short
ride, and when I got where I was going and opened it, about half the bottle
left and headed for the sky!
This stuff was great though, nice head, and *REAL* root beer taste!
Chris
P. S. The Grolsch you drink to get the bottles isn't bad either!
John_Fereira
>I don't care much for Diet Pepsi, though. It tastes
>like carburator cleaner. (Okay, the way I *think*
>carburator cleaner *would* taste!) Diet Coke
>is rust remover. I prefer it. (No, not 'tastes
>like', IS...I have a mechanic friend who uses
>Coke to help unstick rust bolts)
Actually diet coke and diet pepsi work well for cleaning battery
terminals as well.
--
STella
>;>I was wondering at what ages people started
>;>drinking coffee regularly.
>
>;17.
>
>Eight.
Not sure, but I guess, since it was the second-grade teacher who got
all "child abuse" worked up when she found out I had coffee for
breakfast, that it must have been about seven. (Fool didn't even back
off when she found out that "coffee" at that age meant just enough
sacrament to warm a cup of milk and make it a pale tan....)
But after she persuaded my mom to stop giving me coffee, she
discovered that having a caffeine-deprived child who knew who to blame
in her class was more disruptive than having a caffeine-enhanced child
not rattling her cage. After a little while, she sent a note home to
my mom saying that the school nurse had said that probably wouldn't
hurt, and seemed really important to me. Damn straight. Besides, it
stopped the obnoxiosities I spent my decaffeinated mornings planning
for her! (Did you know that some people are so phobic about cats that
if you mew behind them they'll try to stand on the chalkrail? Did you
know that some people get hysterical when a child in their class
passes out at 9:05 each morning, and can only be persuaded to mumble
"coffee... coffee"? Well, you get the idea ....)
(I like my coffee sweet, and creamed to somewhat lighter than a
brown-paper bag. The Toshiba Mi Cafe may not be the greatest
coffeemaker in the world, but it does the job for me -- that horrible
noise when the grinder goes off jerks me out of sleep, and about the
time I start to nod off again the smell of coffee starts wafting
through the house and dragging me, snout-first, toward the kitchen.
And, BTW, my husband says that he'd LIKE coffee if only it tasted as
good as it smells. Almost GOT him with the Jamaican Blue, though. He
took a SECOND sip! I can tolerate him not liking coffee, but I LOVE
him for being willing to get out of bed and deliver that first cup
when the machine beeps that it's done! (I may have other reasons for
loving him, but that's a BIGGY!))
STe...@xanadu.com 1016 E. El Camino Real, #302, Sunnyvale, CA 94087
Robert Thurlow
>In article <101...@convex.convex.com> thu...@convex.com (Robert Thurlow) writes:
>>dmo...@minerva.che.uc.edu (Daniel Mocsny) writes:
>>I expected someone maybe slimmer and certainly taller.
>You care about height?
A bit, but less than I used to. See below.
>>Has this kind of thing happened to you, Dan?
>What *hasn't* happened to me? :-) Everything I write about comes
>from my experiences.
Bzzzt! You didn't answer my question. Have you ever found yourself in
a relationship with a person you would not have expected to be attractive
to you, or who was not totally attractive, only to be surprised at just
how little your previous ideas of 'attractive' really mattered? At how
your feelings about her physical attractiveness actually changed?
>The only meaningful definition of 'perfect'
>is what is perfect for you. If you let someone else tell you what
>is 'perfect,' you are probably making a mistake.
I think you have a problem if you even accept there is such a thing as
'perfect' for you, really; I like too many things to even list most of
them.
>But I am curious here. While you 'learned to like all the stuff
>she had' (nifty phrase, there), did you get *exactly* the same
>feelings you would have gotten from a different woman with a
>drastically different body?
Nope, I'd say not. But I didn't expect that, really. More on target,
I was surprised at how my attraction *changed* for her once I was in
our relationship.
>While you may be perfectly satisfied
>with the feelings you get from one as opposed to another, the
>*particular* feelings I get from a woman do have something to do
>with her physicality. That doesn't mean I'm looking for
>cookie-cutter clones.
Can't argue with that.
Rob T
--
--
Rob Thurlow, thu...@convex.com
Jim Vlcek
``[the] legendary "men-with-infinite-requirements" [that Sharon Fisher
is always talking about] are nothing more than mythical creatures...''
and Jonathan Leech suggests:
``Perhaps you should learn to recognize hyperbole.''
*Snort*
I've learned to recognize chickenshit, that's for sure. I recognize
it when people jump in Griz' shit for stating his personal views about
gays, and then turn right around and imply that, without gays, the
best the hetero culture could offer is daytime TV game shows. And I
recognize it when a woman who is always complaining about how men make
sweeping generalizations about women (eg, "women only like men who
mistreat them") makes precisely such a generalization herself.
Nonetheless, this hyperbole nonsense is a novel new device. Now, a
net poster can choose one of three cover-your-ass lines when he/she
has written something stupid:
a) It was just a joke!
b) It was an experiment!
c) You should learn to recognize hyperbole!
Choice (c) offers a "cultured" alternative, even: it includes one
three- and one four-syllable word.
Jim Vlcek (vl...@caf.mit.edu vl...@athena.mit.edu)
Robert Thurlow
>'Course, I suppose I'm probably the original sugar junkie - Double Rainbow
>and the Prolific Oven like me a lot!
Yow! Major flashback to the Grand Marnier fudge ball From Heaven I had
there when I was out with you and Marcia! Thanks, Teri, I'd forgotten
the name of that place ...
Greg Bullough
D'accord. But I'll take the whole thing. Howcum Abbot's in Noank has to
be closed for the winter :-( Bicoastal bummer.
Greg
Daniel Mocsny
>Dan, I'm not necessarily talking about the guys who went on dates with
>women and then found them to be as exciting as algebra class. (This was
>a confusing analogy for me, because I *loved* algebra, but I think I know
>what you mean.)
Huh. Well, I enjoy math(s) too, but not quite as much as I enjoy
(some) women. Perhaps I should have said *abstract* algebra.
Betcha didn't enjoy that too much. :-)
> At least they tried. It's the guys who won't try, who
>refuse to date anyone who isn't blonde/slender/big titted/ whatever.
Oh, well, if they don't try, then they are getting exactly what they
deserve. You never know how you are going to react to people until
you, well, react to them.
>I'm surprised to see that you think it's easy to maintain one's weight, and
But it is, for all but about 10% or less of the population. All you
have to do (at most) is ride a bike 200 miles per week or more, and
eat a diet with plenty of high-fiber, unprocessed foods, and make
sure less than 20% of your total calories come from dietary fats.
It's so simple. And fun, too. Especially for you lucky folks in
the Bay Area, you have some of the best riding in the USA. Compared
to the shit I put up with to ride in Cincinnati...
Now of course not everyone can live this way. But I think it is
not at all difficult for the average person to train hard and
eat right. When I was a teenager, I showed absolutely no outstanding
athletic ability at all. Quite the opposite, in fact. But I found
a system that works for me, and while I'll never be world class,
I'm happy with the results I've gotten.
I know that some people have a much harder time with their weight
than others. I know that when a person is completely out of shape,
starting an exercise program can be extremely difficult (I know,
because when I was 20, I would get winded climbing one flight
of stairs. My waking pulse rate was 80 bpm; it's gone as low as
47 since then). But it's just like the advice you offer to the
men on the net who can't get dates---most of the time, when
someone doubts what you are saying, it's because they haven't
tried it. Nothing can work for everyone, but all you have to do
is visit China to see that most weight problems in the USA aren't
necessary. Most, but not all.
>disappointed that you seem to feel that if a woman gains weight, she's
>doing it to "get" the other person ("purposely doing something that is taking
>value away from me").
I did not say "purposely doing *to* take value away from me." I said
purposely doing---i.e., changing her lifestyle---in such a way that
she happens to take value away from me. I don't think people
usually do things to hurt each other. In fact, the majority of
violent deaths in this country are accidentally inflicted. But
intent doesn't change the results, when the rules that link
behavior with consequence are well-known and virtually inescapable.
> Someone who weighs more is automatically
>valued less? Bleah. That's the sort of attitude I'm complaining about.
Not valued less as a person. But less sexually exciting for me?
Yes. This is not an "attitude," it is simply the way I have found
that I respond. If I hit my hand with a hammer, it will hurt. I
can probably smile sweetly and put on a show like it isn't hurting,
but that won't change what is going on in my mind.
I am happy to be friends, or do business,
or whatever, with a person of any physical characteristic. But
I don't become sexually excited by arbitrary objects or persons.
I have been attracted to women of a variety of shapes and sizes,
but the one common factor for me has been that none of them
were overweight. By *my* definition, which is not the definition
in women's magazines, by the way. Most women I see could benefit
from *gaining* ten pounds. Of muscle.
But who knows? I did not ask for my sexual imprint, and for all
I know, it could change someday. In fact, it has broadened slightly
since I became a recreational athlete. But one thing I do know, is that
I have little respect for anyone who denies his/her own feelings in
response to peer pressure.
>"I just know that something good is gonna happen
>I don't know when
>But just saying it could even make it happen..."
I love that quote...
Jane M. Lecher
I grew up on KoolAid, then switched to diet sodas in
my teens.
Diet Coke runs in my veins.
I don't care much for Diet Pepsi, though. It tastes
like carburator cleaner. (Okay, the way I *think*
carburator cleaner *would* taste!) Diet Coke
is rust remover. I prefer it. (No, not 'tastes
like', IS...I have a mechanic friend who uses
Coke to help unstick rust bolts)
Jane M. Lecher
(JMLECHER at RODAN.ACS.SYR.EDU)
'Madness takes its toll'
JEFF NANIS
As has been announced repeatedly on this board, there are no absolute
rules. This includes weight loss. Message <40...@uceng.UC.EDU> states:
"But it is, for all but about 10% or less of the population. All you
have to do (at most) is ride a bike 200 miles per week or more, and
eat a diet with plenty of high-fiber, unprocessed foods, and make
sure less than 20% of your total calories come from dietary fats.
It's so simple."
Oh, but only if it were. I have an extremely close friend who has
always had a weight problem. (BTW, I find her one of the sexiest women I
know.) This woman is in medical school currently, working 16+ hour days in
addition to studying, going out dancing, and organizing student activities
and government. On top of all this, she works out with a passion. She runs,
does aerobics, and uses one of those newfangled stair machines. Recently, she
recounted to me a day she had when she ate about 300 calories (yes, 300) of
food, went to the gym, and climbed on the machine until it told her she had
expended 350 calories. Her week continued like this, with no eating splurges.
Her weight stayed the same.
This woman is not sick. She has an incredibly efficient metabolism
and can "smoke me like a cheap cigar" if it comes to physical exertion (and
yes, I work out and run, and lose weight when I combine this with lowered
snack intake.)
--
Jeff Nanis "You can't send me out there,
je...@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu I'm an analyst, not a field agent!"
Not an official opinion which might get me put in jail.
Robert Thurlow
>like', IS...I have a mechanic friend who uses
>Coke to help unstick rust bolts)
Back in my Saskatchewan youth, the gas jockeys used to use Coke to
loosen the bugs off car windshields. I swear it's true :-)
Pete Kovach
Jeff Nanis writes -
>Recently, she
>recounted to me a day she had when she ate about 300 calories (yes, 300) of
>food, went to the gym, and climbed on the machine until it told her she had
>expended 350 calories. Her week continued like this, with no eating splurges.
>Her weight stayed the same.
Back to this eh? If you are foolish enough to starve yourself like that,
you will NOT loose fat, you will loose muscle, look worse than ever, and
take a chance of destroying your heart and other organs. Tell her to read a
few books on nutrition and weight/aroebic training. Then maybe she will she
some fat loss when she uses that stairmaster. At 300 calories, the best she
can expect is to get weak and flabby - at worst, end up in the hospital.
Daniel Mocsny
> As has been announced repeatedly on this board, there are no absolute
>rules.
You do realize that sentence contradicts itself. To be precise, you
should say "We have not yet discovered any absolute rule."
Even that is debatable; some physical constants appear to be
universal.
> This includes weight loss. Message <40...@uceng.UC.EDU> states:
>
> "But it is, for all but about 10% or less of the population. All you
> have to do (at most) is ride a bike 200 miles per week or more, and
> eat a diet with plenty of high-fiber, unprocessed foods, and make
> sure less than 20% of your total calories come from dietary fats.
> It's so simple."
>
> Oh, but only if it were. I have an extremely close friend who has
>always had a weight problem.
Well, I did say "for all but about 10%." I had a friend once who
trained like an animal; he rode his bike across the USA, averaging
100 miles/day, he raced, the whole nine yards. He also tended to
carry about 30 pounds of excess fat. He did eat a pretty high-fat
diet, though.
I am quite aware that everyone has their own weight equation. I have
a friend who is 5'6", she weighs 95 pounds, and she eats like a pig.
Partially as a result of my influence, she started training, and
she gained a sorely needed 5 pounds.
But remember the context of my comment. I was responding to Sharon
Fisher, who was taking exception to my statement that I would
perceive a loss in value if I was in a relationship with a woman
who gained a lot of weight (i.e., fat). If a person of normal
weight suddenly gains a lot of weight late in life, this implies
that something is changing. Sometimes this change is deliberate
on the part of the person ("letting oneself go") and other times
it is not deliberate (e.g., an injury or pregnancy or life
stress interferes with the earlier lifestyle).
As I said above, everyone has their own weight/fitness equation. A
person who has gotten to know their body by exploring the "envelope"
they inhabit knows full well the relationship between how they treat
their body and what state it is in. For example, I now know exactly
what shape my body is capable of getting in, and how to put it there.
My equation could change radically tomorrow---for example, I could
get run down by a motorist---but until that happens, where I am in
*my* envelope is almost entirely up to me to decide. If a woman
was attracted to me in part because of the state my body is in now,
I wouldn't expect her to be happy about having me let myself go
for no good reason. And why should she be? If I know exactly the
relationship between my behavior and the results, then what I am
doing would seem to border on sabotage.
Now I have lots of sympathy for people who have problems with their
weight that they can't help. They have to put up with all sorts
of needless prejudice in everyday life. I believe I can even say
that I don't let bodyweight be an issue in my friendships and
everyday dealings, although this would be hard for me to be
absolutely sure about, since everyone in society is infected to
some degree by all pervasive prejudices. I guess I could ask my
overweight friends about that. But anyway, while I sympathize
with people who have all sorts of problems, and I try to keep
the problems from affecting my courtesy and respect, I do not
believe I am obligated to be sexually attracted to anyone. I certainly
know I wouldn't get far trying to tell anyone else they are
obligated to be sexually attracted to me.
And, <gasp> I find myself sexually attracted (or not) to people for
reasons that they often can't control. Yes, this is horribly unfair.
For example, nobody gets to decide what their intellectual endowment
is going to be. Apparently, we are born with an intellectual
envelope, and we can push ourselves to different parts of it by
applying ourselves. But some people just naturally seem to have
minds that work better in some ways than other people do. Now,
if I find that I get along much better with a woman whose mind
works one way, does that mean that I am obligated to have sex
with another woman whose mind does not work that way, even if she
can't help it? I hope not.
Well, anyway, I'm rambling again. But for the 6,000th time, I
wish that we could all just distinguish properly between everyday
respect/courtesy and sexual attraction. The former is a product
of reason, and the latter is not, nor can it be. If I were a
creature of reason, I am fairly certain I would not want to have
sex.
Sharon Lynne Fisher
>Looks are just one of my criterrion. I am not willing to commit to a
>lifetime on a first date. Are you? Once I make that commitment, I'll
I doubt anyone's suggesting that. What I'm talking about are the people
who *eliminate* someone because of their looks, on the first date or
before.
--
Sharon Lynne Fisher
>Sharon, has it not yet occurred to you that your legendary
>"men-with-infinite-requirements" are nothing more than mythical
>creatures - just like the infamous "women-who-secretly-desire-to-be-
>beaten-and-raped" and the "women-who-only-date-assholes"? We should
>call you "Straw Man Sharon".
Oh. Well, excuse me for a while; I'm going to have to go tell some
people I know that they don't exist.
Perhaps *you* don't know any men like this. I do. Perhaps I'm just
lucky?
David N. Schlesinger
bsch...@elbereth.rutgers.edu (Nutsy Swugglebeannies) writes:
> How do you like your coffee?
Made in a Chemex, black, scaldingly hot, and with increasing frequency as
the day wears on.
Of course, I put up with the nasty stuff the office machine produces, too.
"If it wasn't for bad coffee, I wouldn't have no coffee at all..."
Lefty
|<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>|
| David N. Schlesinger || "When I have nothing to say, |
| The Wollongong Group || my lips are sealed; |
| Internet: Le...@twg.com || say something once, |
| POTS: 415/962-7219 || why say it again?" -- David Byrne |
|<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>|
Mark Shaw
>who *eliminate* someone because of their looks, on the first date or
>before.
I don't feel it's right to dump someone after the first date
because of their looks. Eliminating that person *before* the first
date is the proper way to go. If you lie to yourself, then who can
you trust? I would have known that there would be a problem before
even dating her. On the other hand, I can think of a situation where
this could occur. I think the old joke about it begins something like
this... "Did you ever wake up in the morning and want to bite..."
If all that I've got to go on is looks, I'll use it, but I
prefer to have more information! Like, does she smoke(yuck)? Is she
educated? Is she a gold-digger? Divorced? Kids? And, a very
important one, is she interested in me?
mark
ms...@convec.xom
Daniel Mocsny
Well, probably. I have never exactly been in the following situation.
So I can't say exactly how it would affect me. But judging how I have
responded to women based on (what seemed to me) their physical
characteristics, (and note that I am not saying other things do not
matter, they do) I would guess that...
> You're in love with a woman, and sex has been good between the
>two of you, and then she gains weight, and then suddenly your sex
>(sexual) interest in her decreases?
I think it would decrease, but it would not be sudden. Unless the
weight gain was sudden, which is not usually what happens.
> At what point does this happen?
>After 10 pounds? 50? 5?
Attraction for me is not a binary function, but instead a continuous
function of many variables. So my degree of attraction would probably
have something to do with my partner's weight, but the exact
dependence would be unique to her. It would have something to do
with all the other things we had. Some women would attract me more
if they gained weight. But I think I could say that a fifty-pound
gain of bodyfat would really inhibit me. I think I would still
love her, but I would think about having sex with her less
often. Again, I am only extrapolating from my limited
experience, I haven't actually gone through this with anyone.
> Does she love you less because she gained
>weight? Does she become less skilled in bed?
Her love for me is strictly up to her to decide. And certainly,
I have found that the more interest a woman has in me, the more
interest I have in her. For me, nothing is more appealing in a
woman than to sense that she *really* wants me. This is more
important than her appearance. That does not mean her appearance
does not matter, it does. Especially if she wants me to be the
aggressor. But it is only one factor of many.
Less skilled? Obviously, certain things don't depend on weight.
But other things might. If she got really out of shape, she might
tire out too quickly. Or, worse, she might become too self-conscious
around me. Some women tell me I'm intimidating, and while I don't
understand why, this does seem to be a problem at times. So it
would really depend on her confidence after she gained weight. If
she could not see herself as being attractive to me, then she
could develop a negative attitude that would quickly torpedo
everything. Of course, her attitude might depend on what she
thought I was thinking about her, and since some women seem to
be hypersensitive to the most inconsequential cues, if I thought
for a femtosecond that she should probably do something about
that weight, that might be more than enough to trigger the
downward spiral.
In sum, this is all a very complex issue, and difficult to
discuss in the abstract. But I am reasonably certain that if I
was in a relationship with someone who gained an
appreciable amount of bodyfat (for no good reason), it could
only have a negative impact on my sense of sexual satisfaction.
I don't know how I would respond to some justifiable weight
gain, for example during pregnancy, because I haven't experienced
that.
Daniel Mocsny
>They require fewer calories.
They also tend to take on more responsibilities and commitments,
making exercise harder to obtain. They also become more prone to
injury and slower to recover therefrom, making exercise trickier.
And the longer one has gone without exercise, the harder it is to
start.
But for a person who trains intelligently and as a matter of habit,
the effects of aging are not nearly so disastrous. They don't
"tend to gain weight," this is only a result of inactivity. An
athlete of 40 years age doesn't play by exactly the same rules
as she did when she was 20, but they haven't really changed that
much. The change is *insignificant* compared to what a sedentary
person experiences in the same two decades.
When I was 20, I was in bad shape. I don't expect to be in such
bad shape again until I am 70. :-)
> Also, one can change one's life without
>requiring a traumatic event such as injury or pregnancy. One can choose
>to put one's attention on another area of their life -- such as their
>career, their partner, volunteering, whatever. For you, Dan, keeping
>your body tuned is a priority, even if it requires spending 200 miles
>a week on your bicycle. There are other people whose priorities will
Well, in fact I would say that keeping my body tuned is a pleasant
side effect of doing something I enjoy: riding 200 miles a
week on my bicycle.
>not allow them to devote that kind of time. (Not to mention, also,
>people who can't bicycle 9 months of the year because of snow, or people
I've done my share of snow riding, but I think I understand why it
isn't more widespread :-) However, you can do other interesting
things in snow. (Need I say more)
Also, my time requirements for 200 miles/week aren't all that great.
When I'm out with the boys on the open roads, we're averaging from
22--30 mph. Even if you add up all the diddling in city traffic to
get to the decent riding, I'm rarely putting in more than 20 hours
a week on the bike. Lots of people spend way more time than that
watching TV. Of course, there is the extra time to get ready for
a ride, then to clean up afterwards, and when I am training hard
I need about 1 extra hour of sleep. I am not happy about that
ancillary time demand, because it gives me no direct benefit.
>who are afraid to bicycle in traffic [me!], but I'm quibbling; exercises
>other than bicycling would probably work. But the time requirements
>will be excessive to some people.)
Well, people make time for whatever they believe is worthwhile.
TANSTAAFL, once again. I don't hear people complaining about how
much time they spend in the bathroom, or sitting in bars, or
watching movies.
If someone tells me how hard a time they have spelling words
correctly, I could say, "But the answer is so easy! Just run
your text through ispell." They might come back and say, "But
I don't have a computer. I don't want to have a computer. I
have other things to do. Running a computer might be easy for
you, but it is hard for me." And what they are saying is right.
But I told them the answer, and it really isn't hard for me. And
I don't think it would be as hard for them as they think. In
any case, I will be less inclined to listen to further complaints
about spelling errors.
And Sharon, you do see the analogy between my advice on weight,
and your advice on meeting people? Those impossible-requirements
guys are saying how hard a time they have meeting women. You
tell them is isn't really that hard, all they have to do is
XYZ, and they come back with fifty dozen reasons why XYZ really
is hard for them. Well, it may be hard for them. But you will
probably never believe that.
:-)
Daniel Mocsny
>to maintain their weight and muscle tone; and 2 -- is it reasonable to
>lose one's sexual interest in one's partner if said partner gains weight.
1. I think for most people it *can* be easy, or at least much
easier than it appears to be now. This can't be true for everyone,
but I'm sure it's true for more people than most people think.
And sure, it will take some serious restructuring to get there.
That won't be easy, and I have said so. It's only easy to
maintain, not establish, like almost anything you have to work for.
2. "Is it reasonable"? What does reason have to do with sex? Do you
think we can apply reason to sex and still have it?
Usenet file owner
>>Sharon, has it not yet occurred to you that your legendary
>>"men-with-infinite-requirements" are nothing more than mythical
>>creatures - just like [other soc.singles.stereotypes]
>Oh. Well, excuse me for a while; I'm going to have to go tell some
>people I know that they don't exist.
>Perhaps *you* don't know any men like this. I do. Perhaps I'm just
>lucky?
Must be lucky.
This is what bothers me about people who use the "Real World" in a
discussion. (As in "... when you get into the Real World ...", "...
maybe for you, but in the Real World ...", etc.) Whose Real World(tm)
are we talking about, anyway?
Besides, I'm convinced that it's just another way of telling people that
their experiences are invalid.
I'll go back to being a good little lurker now ...
Zach Frey
Papernet: Zachary Frey | fr...@frith.egr.msu.edu | Usenet: the
514 Virginia St. | fr...@msuegr.BITNET | Bellman's
E. Lansing, MI 48823 | ...uunet!frith!frey | Paradise.
| fr...@cpsin.cps.msu.edu | -me
Nutsy Swugglebeannies
I write:
>>Lobster tail is the greatest thrill of them all.
In article <10...@netcom.UUCP> gr...@netcom.UUCP (Greg Bullough) writes:
>D'accord. But I'll take the whole thing.
This brings up a stupid question. How do you eat your shellfish?
In particular, in what order do you consume the parts?
Blue crabs I eat in proper Chesapeake manner (what's that--
whatya call it?--"cracker" thing for?), starting with
the legs and claws, then pulling up the shell and eating
the yicky bits, and then going for the body meat. Lobsters
I eat pretty much the same way, except that lobsters have
Magnificent Tails that must be saved for last.
--
Barry Schwartz Director, Society for Anachronistic Poetry
b...@hankel.rutgers.edu bsch...@elbereth.rutgers.edu
(Only when I am in Canada: tras...@alzabo.uucp.if.the.mail.is.working)