Eric Lederer on soc.snuggles
Gretchen Anonymous Remailer
A Day in the Life of a Single Person, Online
Eric Lederer
The explosive growth of the internet over the past 5 years has led to many
opportunities for its users. Beginning with the development of browsers
such as Mosaic and Netscape, the World Wide Web has become the most popular
aspect of the internet. The ability of people to talk over vast distances
of geographical space, with disregard for time zones and the like has led,
inevitably, to the development of online "singles" networks. Having some
experience with singles groups in my own life, I chose the singles groups
on the internet to study for my research.
In order to begin my research, I first looked at Liszt. Liszt is a mailing
list directory, with almost 90,000 different groups. However, only 10 of
these groups were related to singles. Some of the groups were religiously
based (Christian, Jewish, etc.), and others were designated for ethnic
groups, Latin Americans for example. One of the groups was specifically for
overweight people. However, none of the groups had what I was looking for.
To further my research, I then looked in Yahoo. Over the past few years, I
have found that Yahoo has been the most informative search engine on the
World Wide Web. I was in awe of the vast amounts of topics relating to
singles that the Yahoo search returned. The search at Yahoo led me to
Dejanews. It was on Dejanews that I found the newsgroup that I focused on
for the rest of the time. A newsgroup is a specifically designated area on
Dejanews where people with similar interests can go and talk online. I
chose to focus on the newsgroup, soc.singles. Soc.singles is a newsgroup
specifically designed to help singles in their search for a life partner.
The singles groups on the internet constitute a very wide ranging variety
of people. Their presence on the internet is also wide ranging. There are
newsgroups such as the one on Dejanews on almost all newsgroup programs. In
internet chat rooms, there is usually a singles chat room, where singles go
and "mingle". There are also internet dating services. These provide an
opportunity for people to show a picture of themselves along with a brief
description. The person or persons who view the picture and description can
email a response to a mailbox set up by the dating service company. This is
a much more interactive form of meeting than just talking on the
newsgroups, as it gives its users an opportunity to actually view a picture
of the person, rather than relying on a description.
In order to study the singles presence on the internet, I started by
subscribing to the soc.singles newsgroup. Within a day or two, I already
had 30 or 40 posts to the newsgroup. I chose not to respond, but rather to
watch and listen. In the early going, the online singles were similar to
the singles I had come in contact with in my own personal experiences. Many
were insecure and uptight about themselves. Some just had problems meeting
others. There were some who had trouble maintaining a serious relationship.
A common tone of "voice" that people used was one of anger. It seems that
being hurt as many times as some had led to a very bitter attitude toward
the whole situation. The one thing that all the people on soc.singles had
in common was that they were all looking for that "secret" to finding
Mr./Mrs. Right. This was the basis for most of the conversation on
soc.singles.
Much to my dismay, I soon learned that soc.singles was not the dating
service that I wished it to be. Other newsgroups, such as alt.personals,
were designated specifically for people to leave personal ads, much like
those in the newspaper. At the same time, I found that the conversations on
soc.singles were mildly interesting and did have a few good points. The
major goal of soc.singles is for singles to tell their good and bad stories
about dating. They would use the anonymity of the internet as a shield in
order to relay stories about successful or failed dates. If something went
right, they would attempt to help others by telling what they did to make
the date work. If the date was a failure, they would usually complain about
it, telling the others that it was the other person's fault, never
accepting any responsibility for the lack of success. This was one of the
constant themes of soc.singles: Never assume any responsibility for your
actions, always blame the other person.
Through studying soc.singles for about three months, I can honestly say
that the members do constitute a virtual community. Their actions and
interactions in the newsgroup have attempted to help each other in ways
that real life (RL) singles groups do. They meet regularly, have ongoing
conversations, argue, and on occasion even fight with words. Granted, the
disagreements do not turn to physical violence toward each other, but in an
online community words can kill. One such example happened between two of
soc.singles' "inhabitants". Scott and Leanne are two people who frequent
soc.singles. In one of Leanne's postings prior to my joining soc.singles,
she disagreed vehemently with some of Scott's opinions. She unleashed a
torrent of profanities toward Scott, some of which Scott took personally.
He demanded an apology from Leanne, but to this day still has yet to
receive it. In almost all of Scott's current postings, he usually ends with
a comment about waiting for Leanne's apology. There are approximately 50
active members in the soc.singles community. While some post infrequently
(usually about once every two weeks), there are some who post daily, even
twice daily. Obviously, the users who post more frequently dominate the
site, but the comments from the occasional users are usually more
interesting and thought out. The two main players in the soc.singles
community are Jackie the Tokeman and Crash Street Kidd, although neither of
them are beneficial to the community. Jackie the Tokeman has a deep seeded
problem with people that are overweight and takes every possible
opportunity to launch into profanity laced tirades about them. Crash Street
Kidd is the closest thing to a room moderator for soc.singles, but he only
posts to the group when he feels that someone is spamming "his" group. As
with Jackie, he also feels the need to use excessive amounts of profanities
in his postings.
The Dejanews newsgroups gives its ability to start new conversations, or to
simply respond to ongoing ones. It is much more commonplace on soc.singles
to see people simply responding to others' comments. This is probably due
to the users' insecurities, not wanting to leave themselves open to
criticism by their peers. One of the longest ongoing conversations has to
do with an original article entitled "Why in the hell is there always
another guy involved?". This particular conversation has been going on for
about three weeks, with members posting responses back and forth. The main
idea of this article is that all of the good (some say great) women are
already taken, but are unhappy with their situation. The members of the
group agree that there is nothing they can do about the situation, and to
interfere with an ongoing relationship can only lead to heartache and
despair down the road.
As was stated before, many of soc.singles' users are angry at the dating
scene of today. The most blatant display of this anger came in an article
written by a user named Ray. As can be surmised by the title of his
article, "Dating v. Prostitution: Is There Really A Difference?", Ray has a
lot of anger, probably relating to his lack of success in dating. In the
article, he states that dating is merely directed at the ultimate goal of
sexual interaction, and that on the woman's part, it can be compared to
prostitution, although indirect. He feels that when he goes out on a date
and does not have sexual interaction, the date is a failure. In his
opinion, the woman involved should consider the monetary costs of the date,
not just the dinner, etc., but the costs of the wardrobe, haircut, and
other ludicrous things. With all of these things considered, it is Ray's
opinion that the woman should automatically engage in intercourse with him.
As ridiculous as these comments seem, Ray actually got a positive response.
A female in her mid to late 30's, known as Dawn O' the Dead feels that if
she pays for a date, she should be repaid through sexual favors by her
date. These two misdirected individuals, however, do not constitute the
majority of the people on soc.singles. Most of the users of the newsgroup
feel that sexual interaction is only worthwhile when the feelings are
strong enough between two individuals, not when the dinner/movie bill
exceeds fifty dollars.
Many of soc.singles' users attempt to make the dating lives of those around
them easier by giving information on how to date in the 90's. They make
lists of things to do and things not to do when attempting to start a
relationship. Although all of the lists are different, most agree on one
premise: You do not want to become a confidant to the person you are trying
to date. They feel that once you become a close friend, the opportunity for
a serious relationship rapidly disappears. They tell to avoid being the
person the other comes to when there is a problem with their significant
other, because once this happens, your value as a sexual partner decreases.
Soc.singles is a spam-free site on the internet. However, occasionally an
advertisement for an online dating service finds its way into the postings
on the newsgroup. After seeing a few of these advertisements, I decided to
check out the dating service aspect of the internet. Two companies, one
called Compu-Love, and another named One and Only are two of the main
online dating services advertised on soc.singles. I decided to check our
One and Only to determine the reach of these online dating services. When I
went to One and Only, I was greeted by a set of menu options which let me
specify the type of person I was looking for. You can search by
geographical location, age, character, lifestyle, etc. There is also a menu
selection if you are just looking for penpals online. Once the variables
were entered, the results were returned to me with a brief title and a
picture of the person. If desired, I could click on the picture and get the
details of that particular person. Much to my surprise, many of the women
were from the former Soviet Union, particularly the Ukraine. A majority of
the women were in their late 40's to early 50's, and many were divorced.
Over half of the women were overweight and most were not particularly
social. One of the questions asked to the women by the dating service was
"I feel that ten people at a party is...". The most common ending chosen by
the women was "too many people". In this high paced 90's dating scene, if
ten people is too many for you, then you may have a little trouble finding
someone for yourself, because the dating scene I am familiar with takes
place mostly in bars and clubs.
Over the past month or so, the tone in soc.singles has taken an air of
contempt. One of the regulars, known as Jackie the Tokeman, started a
tirade of flagrant comments toward overweight people, Dawn O' the Dead in
particular. I don't recall the instigating incident, but the resulting
running commentary has been less than humane. Jackie's comments are not
just indecent, they are simply offensive. Some of the comments are
offensive to myself, and I am the farthest thing from overweight. Jackie
has touched on every possible group, from homosexuals to minorities. The
tremendous amount of responses to Jackie's comments have in effect taken
over the newsgroup and made it almost impossible to enjoy the normal
postings soc.singles.
The most bizarre topic discussed in soc.singles is speed seduction, also
known as neurolinguistic programming (NLP). Many of its believers state
that it is a form of hypnosis, and subtle movements made during
conversation can persuade an otherwise unwilling participant into
activities, particularly sexual ones. The process has been debated heavily
for weeks now, with both sides of the argument, believers and
non-believers, arguing about the existence of NLP. Scientific evidence has
been proposed by both sides stating their cases, and the debate is far from
over. Most of the people on soc.singles do not believe that speed seduction
is an effective form of winning the other person's heart and mind.
In my opinion, the online singles groups do have an extensive presence on
the Internet, but it is a relatively useless one. When one considers the
quality of conversation that is present on soc.singles, it is a wonder to
me that there are members of this particular newsgroup. The animosity
between members, such as Jackie the Tokeman and Dawn O' the Dead for
example, plays itself out in full view of others. While the conversations
were mildly humorous at first, they have become laden with obscenities
lately and overall just boring to read. I think that the original concept
of soc.singles was a good one, but without guidance from a higher power,
such as a "room monitor" (not Crash Street Kidd), the ideas get lost in all
of the action. The users are not able to get information on dating from
others on a large scale because the bandwidth is cluttered with pointless
tirades by the users who do not wish to further the growth of the
newsgroup. Because of this, the entire online singles community suffers and
their efforts to find a "soul mate" are hampered. Those who are attempting
to use soc.singles for constructive purposes have their efforts hampered by
others who have no intent on furthering the growth of the newsgroup. If all
of the useless fighting was removed from the newsgroup, and only material
relevant to dating were allowed into the group, then the community would
probably benefit. However, until this happens, all of the singles who
choose to use soc.singles as a place to gain information about dating will
suffer.
Return to Sociology and the Internet Research Papers Page [NOTE: this link
didn't work when I tried it]
If you have any comments, email me at led...@clam.rutgers.edu
This page last updated on May 6, 1998.
Posted as a public service by...
Jackie 'Anakin' Tokeman
David J James
Gretchen Anonymous Remailer napisał(a) w wiadomości:
<1999032004...@berlin.neuropa.net>...
>http://camden-www.rutgers.edu/~wood/445/lederer.html
>
>A Day in the Life of a Single Person, Online
>
>
<crockashit snipped>
>If you have any comments, email me at
le-dun...@bearded-clam.rutgerhauers.wedontneednoedu
>This page last updated on May 6, 1998.
I don't know how it's possible to put so much ignorance and misanalysis into
one article and not feel embarassed. This guy should apply for work at any
of the newspapers owned by (censored on legal advice).
D.
George Davenport
>
> http://camden-www.rutgers.edu/~wood/445/lederer.html
> A Day in the Life of a Single Person, Online
>
> Eric Lederer
>
>
> weeks), there are some who post daily, even twice daily.
>
> at the dating scene of today. The most blatant display of
> this anger came in an article written by a user named Ray.
> As can be surmised by the title of his article, "Dating v.
> response. A female in her mid to late 30's, known as Dawn O'
> the Dead feels that if she pays for a date, she should be
> repaid through sexual favors by her date.
lol ... looks like a weekend's effort, not "about three months".
George
--
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Bluffs/3289/index.html
02/06/99 Ghost Town! (Rice, California)
Dawn O' The Dead
On 20 Mar 1999 12:41:34 -0000, nob...@neuropa.net (Gretchen Anonymous
Remailer) wrote:
>A female in her mid to late 30's, known as Dawn O' the Dead feels that if
>she pays for a date, she should be repaid through sexual favors by her
>date.
I e-mailed the author when Crash pointed us at this last week. I asked
him to provide the context in which I said this, whether a copy of the
post or the archive in DejaNews. He has not responded.
Dawn
-------------------------
"Either you think - or else others have to think for you and
take power from you, pervert and discipline your natural tastes,
civilize and sterilize you ." -- F. Scott Fitzgerald
Dawn O' The Dead
<ging...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> As was stated before, many of soc.singles' users are angry
>> at the dating scene of today. The most blatant display of
>> this anger came in an article written by a user named Ray.
>> As can be surmised by the title of his article, "Dating v.
>> Prostitution: Is There Really A Difference?", [...] As
>> ridiculous as these comments seem, Ray actually got a positive
>> response. A female in her mid to late 30's, known as Dawn O'
>> the Dead feels that if she pays for a date, she should be
>> repaid through sexual favors by her date.
>
>lol ... looks like a weekend's effort, not "about three months".
Especially since he took it completely out of context. The boy
apparently doesn't understand sarcasm. Either that or he'll cram
anything into a paper and hope his professor doesn't check...
I went and found the post he means:
-------
Subject: Dating v. Prostitution: Is There Really A Difference?
Author: Dawn O' The Dead <java...@teleport.com>
Date: 1998/04/20
Message-ID: <feL_.430$UC3.3...@news2.teleport.com>
Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.singles
Organization: Big Screaming Weasels, Inc.
References: <6hfgun$tam$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
ray...@hotmail.com wrote:
>When you consider the costs of dating, and the lack of a
>real connection among those who date, is it worth it for
>men to date?
No. Give up. Now.
>What does it cost for a man to build his wardrobe, pay
>for a woman to go out (several times, no less),
>purchase gifts, etc., etc., etc.
$3,217.46 plus tax. Hardly worth it.
>And when you consider that women REQUIRE these
>expenditures, is what they are doing not simply a
>form of indirect prostitution?
>
>I say it is.
And you would be right. I know that when _I_ pay for the date, I
expect the girl to put out. I have an investment here, dammit! It's
not like I invited her to spend the evening with me for her freakin'
COMPANY!!
Women ... bitches and ho's, every last one of 'em.
Dawn
(oh ... wait.)
Brock Hannibal
>
> (a.f.j. snipped)
>
> On 20 Mar 1999 12:41:34 -0000, nob...@neuropa.net (Gretchen Anonymous
> Remailer) wrote:
>
> >she pays for a date, she should be repaid through sexual favors by her
> >date.
>
> him to provide the context in which I said this, whether a copy of the
> post or the archive in DejaNews. He has not responded.
>
On a lighter note, if a woman whom I was attracted to, took me out and
paid for the whole deal, I'd be only too happy to repay her with sexual
favors. I'm a horny old goat, though!
--
Brock, Wizard of Shining Silicon
jim dutton
David J James <dav...@kki.net.pl> wrote:
>
>Gretchen Anonymous Remailer napisał(a) w wiadomości:
><1999032004...@berlin.neuropa.net>...
>>
>>A Day in the Life of a Single Person, Online
>>
>>
><crockashit snipped>
>
>>If you have any comments, email me at
>>This page last updated on May 6, 1998.
>
Talk about a lost individual. I wouldn't recognize the group from
his description. Except the part about Jackie, Crash and Leanne
and somebody named Scott being bad people.
-Jeem, very very bad people.
========================================================================
http://www.enteract.net/~jjd
Steatopygias's 'R' Us. doh#0000000005 That ain't no Hottentot.
Sesquipedalian's 'R' Us. ZX-10. DoD#564. tbtw#6. s.s.m#8. There ain't no more
"I love my country -- I fear my government" -- ??
========================================================================
Edwin L Buck
One rational voice that cries out... "It is imperfect!"
If this infighting does not stop, and if there is not a sincere desire to
intelligently refocus the topic of this group to constructive dating and
relationship building, I will stop drifting into
soc.IwillALWAYSstay.singles Ok, ok, mabye one poor soul out there will
miss my presence, that is if they ever noticed it through this hazey fog
of torrential insults.
Edwin
Crash Street Kidd
>
Don't Unix admin sniperDORKS!!! read the headers of the posts.
Emailing Jackie is pretty useless.
> At last... a breath of fresh air in soc.singles...
> One rational voice that cries out... "It is imperfect!"
>
> If this infighting does not stop, and if there is not a sincere desire to
> intelligently refocus the topic of this group to constructive dating and
> relationship building, I will stop drifting into
> soc.IwillALWAYSstay.singles
Oh there's an inducement to change. Stop being so mean and we can
have more sniperDORKS!!!
> Ok, ok, mabye one poor soul out there will
> miss my presence, that is if they ever noticed it through this hazey fog
> of torrential insults.
And you never contributed to them Mr. Professional Killer.
Crash Street Kidd
> Edwin
Edwin L Buck
On Sun, 21 Mar 1999, Crash Street Kidd wrote:
> Edwin L Buck wrote:
> >
>
> Don't Unix admin sniperDORKS!!! read the headers of the posts.
> Emailing Jackie is pretty useless.
Probably, I sincerely doubt that he has any more of a clue than the rest
of us; however, I have to wholeheartedly agree that there is far too much
flame to consider this newsgroup a forum for singles issues.
> > At last... a breath of fresh air in soc.singles...
> > One rational voice that cries out... "It is imperfect!"
My point again in more colorful terms.
> > If this infighting does not stop, and if there is not a sincere desire to
> > intelligently refocus the topic of this group to constructive dating and
> > relationship building, I will stop drifting into
> > soc.IwillALWAYSstay.singles
>
> Oh there's an inducement to change. Stop being so mean and we can
> have more sniperDORKS!!!
You know, there was once a time when I read articles about the common
problems that many encounter when single on this newsgroup. I enjoyed the
sometimes witty comments, and even the boringly overused but mostly true
advice on such topics as awkward social stiuations.
> > Ok, ok, mabye one poor soul out there will
> > miss my presence, that is if they ever noticed it through this hazey fog
> > of torrential insults.
>
> And you never contributed to them Mr. Professional Killer.
Good point. I did contribute my own pontification. I guess that the
difference here is that I bit my lip for many months hoping that what
should have died a long time ago would, and the people would get back to
the issues that concern the singles scene. Instead it seems that any
thread is bound to be reduced to a spat between Aaron and yourself.
Personally, I don't side with either of you. I just made the mistake of
reflecting on an article you wrote. And you know what you see when you
look in a mirror? That's right, the reflection.
> Crash Street Kidd
>
> > Edwin
>
>
marky
wrote:
[total snip]
did anybody hear that noise?
guess not....