Why do fat women turn men off?
J. Starr
This is an honest question, so please answer honestly. If you can't resist
being insulting, post your response in public (or I'll do it for you!)
Why are men so quick to judge that a fat woman isn't someone they'd want
to be with? I see men attracted to women with bad skin, negative attitudes,
irrefutable bitches, etc. But if a woman is fat, they avoid her like it
was a contagious condition!
Now, I know fat isn't generally considered attractive, but no one is perfect
(well, not many). There are very few "beautiful" couples. Why is fat such
an instant "disqualifier"?
Personal note:
I am inargueably fat (270 lbs.), but have an attractive face, beautiful
skin (everywhere!), healthy (really!), and a good conversationalist and
listener. Those who take the time to get to know me enjoy my company.
But I can't find a single (available) man who will give me a chance!
BTW, I have given up finding someone through the internet, so I don't feel
I'm taking a risk in asking this question.
Thanks in advance for your thoughtful response!
--
@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@
LOVE LONG and PONDER
bit...@ix.netcom.com
Hello,
J Starr writes:
>This is an honest question, so please answer honestly. If you can't
>resist being insulting, post your response in public (or I'll do it
>for you!)
>
>Why are men so quick to judge that a fat woman isn't someone they'd
>want to be with? I see men attracted to women with bad skin, negative
>attitudes, irrefutable bitches, etc. But if a woman is fat, they avoid
>her like it was a contagious condition!
The question is one that is very serious to me. I recently broke up
with a women (that I cared about) after a 2+ year relationship because
she was fat. My opinion is:
1. It is unargueably ugly! Fat is a big turn off and that is all there
is to it. I'm sure there are some mutants that get turned on by fat
women, but for the majority of us it is ugly.
2. Men don't like dating women that are heavier then themselves. If
you're a fat women then you should try to find a fat man. Chances are
you don't find fat men attractive so you understand why men don't find
fat women attractive.
3. It limits the activities that you can take part in. Fat people are
generally not athletic or able to: play any type of sport, visit the
beach, etc.
Bottom line is that (as you have already observed) men don't like it.
The really stupid thing is that people don't have to be fat. You can
spout genetics at me all day, but with exercise and a good diet anyone
can get in shape. IMHO most fat people are comfortable with their
appearance, or at least they are not willing to make the changes
required to lower their weight.
brian odom
di...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (J. Starr) writes:
>This is an honest question, so please answer honestly. If you can't resist
>being insulting, post your response in public (or I'll do it for you!)
>Why are men so quick to judge that a fat woman isn't someone they'd want
>to be with? I see men attracted to women with bad skin, negative attitudes,
>irrefutable bitches, etc. But if a woman is fat, they avoid her like it
>was a contagious condition!
obesity is an unattractive quality to most people. period. and when you
are turned off from someone initially, chances are that you aren't going
to even get to know the person. plus, people in general are controlled by
their peers. (i can't let my friends see me with this person!)
and the same problem exists for obese men as well. they too, also have
a difficult time getting a date as they are overlooked as well while the
women flock to the more muscular guys. also, short men have very similar
problems as well. plus, men with a lack of money also have problems too,
whereas a women with little money can still get by somewhat.
but there is more to fat than just appearance. the fat can be a sign.
it is a sign that "that person doesn't care about herself".
>Now, I know fat isn't generally considered attractive, but no one is perfect
>(well, not many). There are very few "beautiful" couples. Why is fat such
>an instant "disqualifier"?
looks matter, whether you like it or not. if i were a extremely heavy guy,
my chances for a date would be very low (it's already low enough as it is).
who would want to date a guy who looks like eddie murphy in _the nutty
professor_? very few. when a person loses a lot of weight and they come
on a show, what do people do? they clap and they applaud. it is a sign
that that person has won the war, the battle of the bulge. if a person
was smaller and suddenly gained weight and comes on a show, what happens?
silence. and richard simmons comes out to offer help. a person who loses
the weight is considered a "winner". we clap for them and cheer them on.
a person who gains a lot of weight or is already very heavy is a "loser".
we learn this from a very early age. i remember this one big guy who went
to my school named leonard. some people were simply cruel to him and would
make him cry. also, his younger brother and younger sister were also very
obese and so were their parents. i never teased him, because i was never
a cruel person (i got teased also, but for other reasons).
and adults are also guilty of the same things. when a fat person comes to
sit at a restaurant, some people roll their eyes. rosie o'donnell, who is
a beautiful and very funny woman, gets teased in the tabloids all the time,
but i wouldn't exactly call her fat (more like pleasingly plump). the
tabloids take fat to the ultimate extreme and some people want to lead a
hollywood lifestyle.
also, placing blame on others isn't always correct. you have to ask
yourself a couple of questions. are you happy the way you are? if so,
then stay that way. if you're wanting to lose weight, then there are
ways to do so. we are a world trained by media. i see ads for diet pills
that claim you can lose a lot of weight and get that dream man. what kind
of advertising is this?
i know quite a bit of chunky women (practically all the women in my
family. my mom, at slightly over 200, is one of the smaller women. but
all the men are quite skinny. in my observations, a good 60% of black
women are pretty big anyways, so this isn't uncommon for my family).
and many of these chunky women can get dates. i guess it has a lot to do
with their attitude, but i don't know. i'm not fat and i can't get a date
either, so i'll never understand.
>Personal note:
>I am inargueably fat (270 lbs.), but have an attractive face, beautiful
>skin (everywhere!), healthy (really!), and a good conversationalist and
>listener. Those who take the time to get to know me enjoy my company.
same here. and people enjoy my company. but i am not an aggressive man
for i am quite passive and this hurts my chances at getting dates because
most women do not want a shy and passive man.
>But I can't find a single (available) man who will give me a chance!
>BTW, I have given up finding someone through the internet, so I don't feel
>I'm taking a risk in asking this question.
well, i've given up looking on the internet too. everyone i meet are too
far away from where i am and i'm tired of having to travel thousands of
miles to meet someone (been there done that).
it's just one of those things. with women, fat and children can be a turnoff.
with men, fat, lack of money, and lack of height can also be a turnoff.
it's just the way it is.
>Thanks in advance for your thoughtful response!
>--
>@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@
> LOVE LONG and PONDER
just thought i'd be honest.
--
brian odom
do your part to stop escalating salaries
BOYCOTT NBA MERCHANDISE!
brian odom
bit...@ix.netcom.com() writes:
>J Starr writes:
>>Why are men so quick to judge that a fat woman isn't someone they'd
>>want to be with? I see men attracted to women with bad skin, negative
>>attitudes, irrefutable bitches, etc. But if a woman is fat, they avoid
>>her like it was a contagious condition!
>The question is one that is very serious to me. I recently broke up
>with a women (that I cared about) after a 2+ year relationship because
>she was fat. My opinion is:
>1. It is unargueably ugly! Fat is a big turn off and that is all there
>is to it. I'm sure there are some mutants that get turned on by fat
>women, but for the majority of us it is ugly.
fat is something that affects the entire body all around making the skin
and overall appearance less appealing whereas other blemishes can be
overlooked. you can't overlook fat.
>2. Men don't like dating women that are heavier then themselves. If
>you're a fat women then you should try to find a fat man. Chances are
>you don't find fat men attractive so you understand why men don't find
>fat women attractive.
men don't like dating women heavier than them just like many women don't
like dating men shorter than them. it's just one of those unwritten rules.
and usually people stick to their own kind. a seemingly beautiful woman
is usually with an attractive man. a tall woman is usually with a tall
man. and a fat woman is usually with a fat man. and the vast majority
of couples i see where only one is fat, it is usually the woman, and it is
usually the man who is honoring his marriage (and he feels trapped).
as far as the dating scene, fat people in general have a tough time,
whereas many fat people i see now in a relationshpis where once small when
they first met. my (one and only) girlfriend is fat. she had a nice
figure in high school, but 6 years later, it is gone. i was turned off,
but not as much as you would think. i was more turned off by the fact
that she has a child already and at this point in time, i have a hard time
accepting it.
>3. It limits the activities that you can take part in. Fat people are
>generally not athletic or able to: play any type of sport, visit the
>beach, etc.
i took this one girl to an amusement park and in general i am upbeat and
frisky and she could simply not keep up with me and it was very limiting.
>Bottom line is that (as you have already observed) men don't like it.
>The really stupid thing is that people don't have to be fat. You can
>spout genetics at me all day, but with exercise and a good diet anyone
>can get in shape. IMHO most fat people are comfortable with their
>appearance, or at least they are not willing to make the changes
>required to lower their weight.
it's all a matter of what you want to do with yourself. you can spout all
day about how despite the weight men should treat you with the same respect
as smaller women, but this is planet earth and things just don't happen
that way. i wish it could, but realistically speaking, it's not going to
happen. but your question was why men don't like fat. and the only answer
i can come up with is that people have to make a good first impression.
and since fat is generally a turn off for most people, therefore it is not
a good first impression and a relationship does not happen.
Trish Roberts
In article <4tt9ls$5...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>,
J. Starr <di...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>Why are men so quick to judge that a fat woman isn't someone they'd want
>to be with? I see men attracted to women with bad skin, negative attitudes,
>irrefutable bitches, etc. But if a woman is fat, they avoid her like it
>was a contagious condition!
Is that really a useful question to be asking?
Some men don't like fat women because they are worried that their friends
will think less of them for having a fat girlfriend. Some men aren't
attracted to fat women, but can overlook that if the woman has other
qualities. Some men aren't attracted to fat women because they are
immature dweebs who have bought into society's messages about fatness.
Some men aren't attracted to fat women for the same reasons they aren't
attracted to smart/dumb/powerful/weak/tall/short women.
Doesn't it matter more why the men to whom *you* are attracted are or are
not attracted to *you*?
>Now, I know fat isn't generally considered attractive, but no one is perfect
>(well, not many). There are very few "beautiful" couples. Why is fat such
>an instant "disqualifier"?
For a lot of men, it isn't. Some men have a fat fetish. Some men don't
care.
How much people care about fat-ness depends a lot on region, ethnicity,
age, and class. Are you really running in a crowd that forbids fat
women? Then change crowds or lose weight. (I'd recommend the former,
personally, but it's your choice.)
It *might* also be that you are drawn to the sort of man who is going to
care about weight. I had a friend who was a human bowling ball. She was
in great shape (sport-walked three miles a day) but God made her fat, and
she couldn't fight God. She was continually attracted only to incredibly
buff men who were pretty nearly obsessed about their own weight.
Needless to say, she was not a happy camper.
You can't change what standards other folks have for whom they want to
boff. You can change yourself to meet those standards, or you can change
what folks you're trying to boff till you find people who want to boff
someone like you.
Or you can whine.
--
Trish Roberts [http://www.missouri.edu/~engpat/home.html]
eng...@showme.missouri.edu [standard disclaimer applies]
"the hardest words I know
are I love you goodbye" (T. Dolby)
songbird
Trish Roberts wrote:
>In article <4tt9ls$5...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>,
>J. Starr <di...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>>Why are men so quick to judge that a fat woman isn't someone they'd want
>>to be with? I see men attracted to women with bad skin, negative attitudes,
>>irrefutable bitches, etc. But if a woman is fat, they avoid her like it
>>was a contagious condition!
>Is that really a useful question to be asking?
>Some men don't like fat women because they are worried that their friends
>will think less of them for having a fat girlfriend. Some men aren't
>attracted to fat women, but can overlook that if the woman has other
>qualities. Some men aren't attracted to fat women because they are
>immature dweebs who have bought into society's messages about fatness.
>Some men aren't attracted to fat women for the same reasons they aren't
>attracted to smart/dumb/powerful/weak/tall/short women.
>
>Doesn't it matter more why the men to whom *you* are attracted are or are
>not attracted to *you*?
>Trish Roberts [http://www.missouri.edu/~engpat/home.html]
me, i like some plump hens and some scrawny chicks and a mud-hen or
two. i've never been able to come up with a definitive list of
traits or features if i'm just looking at physical features. it
usually comes down to how things work as a whole.
which pretty much defeats any attempt to write a personal. :) last
night i was out for an evening hopabout and ran into a friend and
several others. all were very attractive in their own way. i was
pretty much fluttergasted so i said howdy and got introductions and
being somewhat hard of hearing at times didn't catch any of the names.
:) saw one of them later and we kinda smiled at each other like we
have been for ages. *sigh* she is short and plump and also plain but
her sense of humor is fantastic. (i think i wrote a poem quite a while
ago with a line in it about an antic-social person. it was her :) of
course this is a relationship going nowhere (i'm leaving and she's way
too young) but a pleasant fantasy that keeps me warm at times.
i think the point being that some tastes are not even dependant
upon a particular fetish, but how the whole person comes across.
and i can't package that in any short list of features or traits.
songbird *cluck*
Twitchling
On 4 Aug 1996 01:23:00 GMT, eng...@silver.missouri.edu (Trish Roberts)
wrote:
>In article <4tt9ls$5...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>,
>J. Starr <di...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>
>>Why are men so quick to judge that a fat woman isn't someone they'd want
>>to be with? I see men attracted to women with bad skin, negative attitudes,
>>irrefutable bitches, etc. But if a woman is fat, they avoid her like it
>>was a contagious condition!
>>Now, I know fat isn't generally considered attractive, but no one is perfect
>>(well, not many). There are very few "beautiful" couples. Why is fat such
>>an instant "disqualifier"?
>
>For a lot of men, it isn't. Some men have a fat fetish. Some men don't
>care.
>
>How much people care about fat-ness depends a lot on region, ethnicity,
>age, and class. Are you really running in a crowd that forbids fat
>women? Then change crowds or lose weight. (I'd recommend the former,
>personally, but it's your choice.)
I hereby submit a suggestion to spend some time in Africa or India,
especially the former. Holy tamole. You would've thought I was
Bridgette Bardot.
>It *might* also be that you are drawn to the sort of man who is going to
>care about weight. I had a friend who was a human bowling ball. She was
>in great shape (sport-walked three miles a day) but God made her fat, and
>she couldn't fight God. She was continually attracted only to incredibly
>buff men who were pretty nearly obsessed about their own weight.
>Needless to say, she was not a happy camper.
This was one of the big reasons I was initially not interested in
pursuing a relationship with the PC. When I met him, he'd always been
very conscious of his body and keeping it in line with current
societal standards. He also just loves to swim and exercise. I
figured anyone like this would ultimately be repulsed by someone fat,
which is currently about as out of vogue as history has ever shown it
be.
Wrong. He has decided over the years that I've known him that his
former obsession with his body appearance stemmed from insecurity and
has become much less concerned with it. Also, it appears he thinks
the work of Renoir and Ruebens to be the height of female
attractiveness. Imagine that.
>You can't change what standards other folks have for whom they want to
>boff. You can change yourself to meet those standards, or you can change
>what folks you're trying to boff till you find people who want to boff
>someone like you.
>
>Or you can whine.
That's about it, in a nutshell.
One thing that does help, however, is believing that you are indeed
attractive. Even faking it helps. I found a number of years ago when
I finally started down that road that all sorts of men started coming
out of the woodwork. It appeared that it wasn't my roundness that had
necessarily repelled them (although I'm sure that was the case for
some); it was my own certainty that I was repulsive that repelled
them. And why wouldn't it?
_____________________________________________________
Lauren Crawford Holmes lho...@ix.netcom.com
Michael Sullivan
In article <4u15if$4...@piano.cs.indiana.edu>,
brian odom <bo...@cs.indiana.edu> wrote:
>obesity is an unattractive quality to most people. period. and when you
>are turned off from someone initially, chances are that you aren't going
>to even get to know the person. plus, people in general are controlled by
^^^^^^
>their peers. (i can't let my friends see me with this person!)
You misspelled "adolescents and neurotic whiners".
>looks matter, whether you like it or not. if i were a extremely heavy guy,
>my chances for a date would be very low (it's already low enough as it is).
You really should look into reexamining this crutch of yours: "At least
I'm not heavy or I'd never have *any* dates." I haven't noticed that I do
significantly more or less well when I'm fat or thin, and I've been both.
Your desire to rank people based on some putatively universal and absolute
scale of "attractiveness", rather than simply noting who makes you hot, is
far more unattractive to me than any weight problem could be.
Michael
piranha
>
>i know quite a bit of chunky women (practically all the women in my
>family. my mom, at slightly over 200, is one of the smaller women. but
>all the men are quite skinny. in my observations, a good 60% of black
>women are pretty big anyways, so this isn't uncommon for my family).
>and many of these chunky women can get dates. i guess it has a lot to do
>with their attitude, but i don't know. i'm not fat and i can't get a date
>either, so i'll never understand.
this is a major hint, brian, and i wonder how much more clearly
you need to see it in front of you to recognize that you're not
on the right track: it's not the fat that keeps people from
getting dates and living a happy life, it's the attitude.
i tell you why, if i was a woman, instead of a carnivorous fish,
i wouldn't care to date you, even if you looked like my perfect
human ideal: your attitude stinks to high heaven. you make
pronouncements about how women and men are without as much as
a shred of factual evidence; you're terribly negative, and you
appear to not take personal responsibility for your shortcomings,
but you heap the blame on that big bad mass of women out there
who're just interested in your money and your looks. surprise,
brian -- you're wrong, but you're making your own bed with that
scratchy bed linen.
you say so many negative things about women that i am flabber-
gasted it hasn't hit you on the head: why would any woman go
out on a date with somebody who thinks this way about a group
she's clearly identified with thru no matter of personal choice,
but by the happenstance of birth? only somebody who's a maso-
chist would want to date such a person.
-piranha
SuKi
The only thing I can say is.............. more surface area to cover...
SuKi @>-->-- We are never perfect...
piranha
In article <4tt9ls$5...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>,
J. Starr <di...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>
>Why are men so quick to judge that a fat woman isn't someone they'd want
>to be with? I see men attracted to women with bad skin, negative attitudes,
>irrefutable bitches, etc. But if a woman is fat, they avoid her like it
>was a contagious condition!
they do? _some_ do. if everyone in your vicinity does, then
it's either something else about you (that you're not looking
at because fatness seems to be the obvious problem), or you're
moving in the wrong circles for you.
>Now, I know fat isn't generally considered attractive, but no one is perfect
>(well, not many). There are very few "beautiful" couples. Why is fat such
>an instant "disqualifier"?
do yourself a big favour. go outside with a notebook and sit
in a place where a lot of couples from all walks of life pass
by. ride the subway, or sit at a baseball game, or something
like that. mark down how many couples you see where one or
both of them are fat.
my prediction is that you'll find oodles of those. america on
the whole has a lot of overweight people, no matter how much
fitness and diet hype you see on tv. (i'm still convinced that
said hype is much to blame for americans being as overweight
as they are).
yes, there is discrimination against fat people, but a lot of
individuals seem perfectly accepting to me. and i've been
height/weight proportional as well as fat (tho never skinny),
so i've seen it from different angles.
>Personal note:
>I am inargueably fat (270 lbs.), but have an attractive face, beautiful
>skin (everywhere!), healthy (really!), and a good conversationalist and
>listener. Those who take the time to get to know me enjoy my company.
>But I can't find a single (available) man who will give me a chance!
romantically, or even just socially? when i was in a situation
where nothing ever seemed to happen romantically even tho i had
great friends, i recognize after a while that it had much more
to do with my attitude than with anything to do with my looks --
i was very intense about the things i was doing, and i didn't
project anything to do with sex; i was neutral. looking back at
that i can see how my whole demeanour spelled "platonic relation-
ships only".
when i talk about projecting something sexual, i'm not talking
about wearing provocative clothes and making a sexual innuendo
every time one opens one's mouth. it's hard to describe just
what i mean, but there's got to be an awareness there that one
is, among many other things, also a sexual person, somebody who
feels attractive and thinks sex is fun. maybe you are too ser-
ious? good conversation and listening skills are important, but
especially the latter lend themselves to becoming motherly, you
know? and men rarely want to have sex with their mothers. you
have got to show your playful side; learn to flirt. and learn
to show that you find _them_ sexually attractive (which can also
be done by flirting).
>BTW, I have given up finding someone through the internet, so I don't feel
>I'm taking a risk in asking this question.
as someone who's found somebody thru the net, i'd recommend not
giving up on it. :-) talking about risky things isn't a turn-
off per se, by the way. some people take to that.
-piranha
Mean Green Dancing Machine
In article <4tt9ls$5...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>,
J. Starr <di...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>
>Why are men so quick to judge that a fat woman isn't someone they'd want
>to be with? I see men attracted to women with bad skin, negative attitudes,
>irrefutable bitches, etc. But if a woman is fat, they avoid her like it
>was a contagious condition!
Hmmm.... Well, I'm a man, and all four of my women lovers would be
considered fat, particularly judged by the fashion model ideal. I
don't especially prefer fat women, but I *don't* like really thin
women.
{Say, where *is* little e'?}
--
--- Aahz (@netcom.com)
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het
Trish Roberts
In article <4u16ee$4...@piano.cs.indiana.edu>,
>>>Why are men so quick to judge that a fat woman isn't someone they'd
>>>want to be with? I see men attracted to women with bad skin, negative
>>>attitudes, irrefutable bitches, etc. But if a woman is fat, they avoid
>>>her like it was a contagious condition!
[m breaks up with f because she is fat]
>>1. It is unargueably ugly! Fat is a big turn off and that is all there
>>is to it. I'm sure there are some mutants that get turned on by fat
>>women, but for the majority of us it is ugly.
What, exactly, do you mean by "unarguably"? It certainly can be argued,
as it is argued with some frequency. The original question asked why it
is considered more ugly than other things, btw, which you haven't
answered. (And try answering it for yourself.)
>fat is something that affects the entire body all around making the skin
>and overall appearance less appealing whereas other blemishes can be
>overlooked. you can't overlook fat.
I'm not sure what you're saying. It seems to me that fat people tend to
have beautiful skin and hair.
>>2. Men don't like [...]
>men don't like [...] many women don't like [...]
>it's just one of those unwritten rules.
>and usually people stick to their own kind.
It's one of those unwritten rules that people invoke when they want to
rationalize their own squicks. It's a squick--so? I don't think either
of you know much of anything about what men in general think, let alone
American men, let alone what the other eighth graders have said.
>my (one and only) girlfriend is fat. [...]
>i took this one girl to an amusement park and in general i am upbeat and
>frisky and she could simply not keep up with me and it was very limiting.
Ah, so the generalization is based on your girlfriend. I think everyone
will agree that one example proves any rule.
>>The really stupid thing is that people don't have to be fat. You can
>>spout genetics at me all day, but with exercise and a good diet anyone
>>can get in shape.
And this brilliant observation is based upon...?
>but your question was why men don't like fat. and the only answer
>i can come up with is that people have to make a good first impression.
>and since fat is generally a turn off for most people, therefore it is not
>a good first impression and a relationship does not happen.
Personally, I think it was a useless question, but it didn't merit this
answer.
--
Trish Roberts [http://www.missouri.edu/~engpat/home.html]
eng...@showme.missouri.edu [standard disclaimer applies]
"long voyages in the delta of your legs" (C. Milosz)
Lucia Alfieri, MSW
In article <4tvuvi$5...@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
bit...@ix.netcom.com() writes:
>Bottom line is that (as you have already observed) men don't like it.
>spout genetics at me all day, but with exercise and a good diet anyone
>appearance, or at least they are not willing to make the changes
>required to lower their weight.
we have are based on society's definition of attractive. I've met a few heavier
folks who actually look pretty good. Now I agree there's a point where it gets
to be ugly, but then, the opposite extreme's just as bad.
I'm lucky my SO isn't as bad as the above. I am trying, and he notices changes
when I don't even bother. If we break up, it sure as hell won't be because of w
eight.
My two cents...
Lucia
Tom duda
I think society is the main problem! Just watch tv for a half hour.
We are told the moment we turn on the set that we must look like this
" Perfect person " in the commercial sit-om or soap opera. Certain
cultures consider it healthy to over eat and gain weight, ask any
cuban refugee and they will tell you that under "Castro" a person
would have been blessed to be over weight. Furthermore, In ancient
Rome fat was considered healthy and beautiful as well. With that in
mind we must realize that you are not the problem society is . I
think that nothing in it self is beautiful or ugly. We see not with
our eyes but our minds. We see what we are told to see or a
perception of what we are fed. I for one strive to look beyond that.
I have seen some very attractive women who were heavier and some butt
ugly skinny women. I just think that you are looking in the wrong
places. It's a big world and if something is not working for you
there are plenty of other areas to explore.
Kara Stohl
Thank you for the boost. I struggle with societal perceptions everyday!
I could only hope that the whole world would read this article and take
it to heart. I hope, wherever I am, someday your views will become the
societal perception.
Stef Jones
J. Starr <di...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>Why are men so quick to judge that a fat woman isn't someone they'd want
>to be with? I see men attracted to women with bad skin, negative attitudes,
>irrefutable bitches, etc. But if a woman is fat, they avoid her like it
>was a contagious condition!
>
>Now, I know fat isn't generally considered attractive, but no one is perfect
>(well, not many). There are very few "beautiful" couples. Why is fat such
>an instant "disqualifier"?
Fat is not an instant disqualifier. Some men are exclusively attracted to
fat women. Some men like both fat and thin women. Some men look for
characteristics other than apperance and don't mind what size you are.
There are also a lot of men who aren't attracted to fat women or are afraid
to get involved with a fat woman because of status issues. Fortunately,
they're usually really easy to weed out. You just say you're fat, and
they're outta there.
I commend you to the newsgroups soc.support.fat-acceptance and
alt.support.big-folks. My web page also has information on fat-acceptance,
including some links to pages for big women and their admirers.
>Personal note:
>I am inargueably fat (270 lbs.), but have an attractive face, beautiful
>skin (everywhere!), healthy (really!), and a good conversationalist and
>listener. Those who take the time to get to know me enjoy my company.
>But I can't find a single (available) man who will give me a chance!
>BTW, I have given up finding someone through the internet, so I don't feel
>I'm taking a risk in asking this question.
Trying to fall in love via the internet is not generally a good thing, but
getting to know people as friends through the internet can be a wonderful
thing. Sometimes such friendships turn into romantic relationships,
sometimes not; either way you learn something. If you get to know people as
friends, you needn't worry about how to present your weight. Just tell them
the truth.
--
Stef ** rational/scientific/philosophical/mystical/magical/kitty **
** st...@bayarea.net ** http://www.bayarea.net/~stef **
--------------------------------------------------------
Everyone is entitled to an *informed* opinion. -- Harlan Ellison
Stef Jones
brian odom <bo...@cs.indiana.edu> wrote:
>looks matter, whether you like it or not.
To some people. And if you want to be with someone for whom they don't
matter, or someone who has alternative preferences, you will find it more
difficult to get into a relationship, because such people are harder to
find. However, you shouldn't compromise too far on what you need in a
relationship. It *is* possible to find someone even if you're
non-mainstream. The key is to know where the kind of person you're
interested in spends zir time, and then go there.
>when a person loses a lot of weight and they come
>on a show, what do people do? they clap and they applaud. it is a sign
>that that person has won the war, the battle of the bulge.
It's a sign that the people who clap are swallowed the cultural mainstream
view. (I always think the "Before" pictures are cuter.)
>a person who gains a lot of weight or is already very heavy is a "loser".
>we learn this from a very early age.
We are exposed to a lot of beliefs from an early age. As we grow up, it's
necessary to spend some time considering which of these beliefs one agrees
with, and which one doesn't agree with. This is creating one's identity.
>also, placing blame on others isn't always correct. you have to ask
>yourself a couple of questions. are you happy the way you are? if so,
>then stay that way. if you're wanting to lose weight, then there are
>ways to do so. we are a world trained by media. i see ads for diet pills
>that claim you can lose a lot of weight and get that dream man. what kind
>of advertising is this?
"False" advertising. There are lots of ways to lose weight, but no ways to
reliably keep it off. Is it really so great to lose weight, get a "dream
man" who likes that you're thin, and then get dumped because you gain the
weight back?
--
Stef ** rational/scientific/philosophical/mystical/magical/kitty **
** st...@bayarea.net ** http://www.bayarea.net/~stef **
--------------------------------------------------------
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a
simple system that works.
exuptr
Craig Macbride wrote:
> And, a bit strict. If I limited myself to women who weighed less than me,
> I would be cutting the field down a lot.
weight.
among my physical fancies are musclebabes. a very stunning woman can weigh
200 lbs or more and you'd not know it. until she pins you to the floor ;-D
> I would prefer a tallish woman, too, but to limit myself to women who
> were towards me height and weighed less than me would be cutting down
> the field far too much.
anna nicole weighs 170 lbs. who talks about how fat she is? ok, maybe
some idiots, but...
--
sunbird (exuptr)
ObSigVirus: "some people are kooks and get ignored" - Phillip J Birmingham
Craig Macbride
bo...@cs.indiana.edu (brian odom) writes:
>fat is something that affects the entire body all around making the skin
>and overall appearance less appealing whereas other blemishes can be
>overlooked. you can't overlook fat.
I think generally poor skin is still treated more kindly that fat,
because fat is viewed as preventable.
>men don't like dating women heavier than them just like many women don't
>like dating men shorter than them. it's just one of those unwritten rules.
And, a bit strict. If I limited myself to women who weighed less than me,
I would be cutting the field down a lot.
>[ ... ] a tall woman is usually with a tall man.
I would prefer a tallish woman, too, but to limit myself to women who
were towards me height and weighed less than me would be cutting down
the field far too much.
>whereas many fat people i see now in a relationshpis where once small when
>they first met. my (one and only) girlfriend is fat. she had a nice
>figure in high school, but 6 years later, it is gone.
Which hits upon what I believe is the real crux of it. People like this
are said to have "let themselves go" amongst other things. It is not
purely a physical thing, it carries a whole lot of other baggage. It
suggests that the person hasn't taken care of themself, hasn't got
self-control, doesn't care about their health, maybe eats to excess
out of low self-image, etc, etc.
These things are much more off-putting than the weight per se.
--
Craig Macbride <cr...@rmit.edu.au> URL: http://www.bf.rmit.edu.au/~craigm
"I'm not sure that actually made sense but I'm afraid that if I tried to go
back and figure it out, I would start bleeding from my ears."
- Londo, Babylon 5, "Convictions"
Stef Jones
<bit...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>The question is one that is very serious to me. I recently broke up
>with a women (that I cared about) after a 2+ year relationship because
>she was fat. My opinion is:
>
>1. It is unargueably ugly! Fat is a big turn off and that is all there
>is to it. I'm sure there are some mutants that get turned on by fat
>women, but for the majority of us it is ugly.
Fat is ugly to *you*. To plenty of people it is not. If you feel better
thinking they're "mutants," fine. But it looks to me like a pretty pathetic
attempt at justifying yourself. You don't have to justify yourself, you
know. It's perfectly all right to have physical appearance preferences.
>2. Men don't like dating women that are heavier then themselves.
Gosh, then I wonder what species of creature I was making love to all those
times I've had boyfriends who weighed significantly less than I do. It's
been more frequent than times I've been with men my size or larger.
Eventually I concluded that there was a subgroup of small and/or skinny men
who like being with a larger woman. There's something wonderful about
losing yourself in all that flesh. (I know, I also like being with people
who are larger than me.)
>3. It limits the activities that you can take part in. Fat people are
>generally not athletic or able to: play any type of sport, visit the
>beach, etc.
Say what? Fat people can't visit the *beach*? How athletic do you think one
has to be to walk from the parking lot to a spot on the sand, ferchrissakes?
And plenty of fat people play sports and exercise, although lots don't,
too. (Golly, just like thin people.)
>The really stupid thing is that people don't have to be fat. You can
>spout genetics at me all day, but with exercise and a good diet anyone
>can get in shape.
Many people can if they are willing to spend most of their time and energy
on it. The genetics mean that in order to maintain your body at a weight
lower than it naturally tends to be, you need to do things like exercise 90
minutes a day while eating a borderline-starvation diet. That's what I had
to do, the one time I tried it. The minute I cut back on my exercise a bit
(from 90 minutes a day to 60 minutes 4-5x/week) and began eating more than
1200 calories a day, I began gaining the weight back.
I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to subject myself to that kind of life
forever for the sake of some men I don't even know who don't like looking
at fat women.
>IMHO most fat people are comfortable with their
>appearance, or at least they are not willing to make the changes
>required to lower their weight.
Most fat people aren't "comfortable" with their appearance, unfortunately.
Fortunately, some are, and the number is growing. As for being "willing" to
make the changes, yes, some are not. Many others literally cannot afford
to, given that it takes so much time and energy to maintain. (People have
jobs, relationships, children, and not everyone wants to make the
stairmaster zir only hobby.) Fortunately, some people are happy to accept
in a relationship a fat person who has chosen to spend zir energy on
improving zirself in ways other than physical.
--
Stef ** rational/scientific/philosophical/mystical/magical/kitty **
** st...@bayarea.net ** http://www.bayarea.net/~stef **
--------------------------------------------------------
Each generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that
went before it and wiser than the one that comes after it. -- George Orwell
James Conway
In a previous article, td...@hili.com (Tom duda) says:
>I think society is the main problem! Just watch tv for a half hour.
To blame is the last desperate act of a coward. Not talking
to anyone of course just making a statement.
I stayed away from this thread because it would be too easy
to be labeled an unnice guy for having opinions in this matter,
but I can not restrain myself anymore. Besides I am not a nice
guy, whimp, or dishonest but useful rag B^).
While I completely agree that beautiful is a purely subjective
cultural bias, there were some reasons for this. Before the
agricultural revolution of the 18th century famine was not an
uncommon occurrence. If someone was fat, they had a better survival
rate than naturally skinny people during a famine. It was most
desirable to be heavy to survive such episodes.
Today this is not a truism for the most part in the developed
world. It is a fact that holding inappropriate fat is stressful to
the body and can cause health problems in later life. For the
consideration of yourself and your family it is best not to allow
yourself to be put in such a position unless you expect that you
will not be around after 40 as pre 18th century individuals usually
died at so early an age. Since everyone I know wishes to
experience life for a longer duration than that, taking care of
your body is the better policy.
Of course, the other extreme is not healthy either. I am not
my body. But neither do I abuse it. Having a healthy relationship
with your body is an _indication_ of your mental health and an
ability to have positive relationships outside yourself. The fact
is a _healthy_ body also indicates a person able to love themselves
and the opposite a lack of self love. We all know that a person
that does not like themselves can't love others in truth. Turn off
city.
The sad point is that everyone does not start at the same place.
Some parents don't help and actually hurt their children by refusing
to take on the responsibilities of good habits to keep them safe from
having unnecessary problems. But refusing to take on the fact of your
own responsibilities will only retard your development. Eat to live
not to eat. Exercise daily different routines and or with other
individuals that share common goals for support. Change groups when
you reach different levels - do not stay with a group that never
progresses (they will try to keep you where they are and not progress).
Make reasonable mini goals to your main goal that will require daily
maintenance when you achieve it that does not ever go away only
becomes an acceptable and livable life style. Celibrate achieving
every mini goal like mini vacation to where you wanted to go or some
other rewarding activity - not food. Many people eat because they
are bored and have nothing else to do. Keep busy and active.
Refuse your responsibilities and you can't expect others to be
happy with you being too lazy and adding burdens to their life or
their families health. They have a right to expect more of you and
you ot to have more respect for yourself and your family. Mind nobody
expects olympics here just steady reasonable daily progress that makes
a difference for all concerned 'in the long run'. Easy. Hell no, but
people who settle for easy don't have anything of worth or value.
--
James Conway bb...@scn.org
Seattle Washington USA
Chronology: http://www.knowledge.co.uk/xxx/cat/kjh/
Craig Macbride
exuptr <exu...@exu.ericsson.se> writes:
>among my physical fancies are musclebabes.
Not for me. Enough of the right muscles and the right sort of control
over them is fine.
>anna nicole weighs 170 lbs. who talks about how fat she is? ok, maybe
>some idiots, but...
You really want to know my yardstick, so to speak? If I can lift her,
she's not too heavy!
... and, while I'm not that strong, I can lift women who weigh at least
30kg more than me. Of course, if they are lighter, that can leave more
interesting possibilities.
Cheezits
In article <4tvuvi$5...@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>, bit...@ix.netcom.com()
writes:
>The question is one that is very serious to me. I recently broke up
>with a women (that I cared about) after a 2+ year relationship because
>she was fat. My opinion is:
>
>1. It is unargueably ugly!
Maybe to some people.
>2. Men don't like dating women that are heavier then themselves.
Speak for yourself, kid.
>3. It limits the activities that you can take part in. Fat people are
>generally not athletic or able to: play any type of sport, visit the
>beach, etc.
"Visit the beach?!" You mean *you* wish they wouldn't visit the beach.
>Bottom line is that (as you have already observed) men don't like it.
Bottom line: you don't like it. Certainly a lot of men share that opinion.
A lot don't.
>The really stupid thing is that people don't have to be fat.
Wrong! Some people can't do anything about it.
This is why superficial men turn me off.
Sue
-----
Just when I think you're the most shallow man I've ever met, you
manage to drain a little more water from the pool. - Elaine, to Jerry
Jim Dutton
In article <09960707020251.O...@compuserve.com>,
Siobahn <10171...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>In article <4u0u1k$i...@news.missouri.edu>, From
>eng...@silver.missouri.edu (Trish Roberts), the following was written:
>> Some men have a fat fetish.
>> Some men don't
>> care.
>
>wealth. I have a friend who weighs 16 stones. She went on holiday to a
>Moslem country and her husband was inundated with "offers" for her. In
>western culture it is only a matter of fashion..(recall Rubens!)
>Siobahn
It's simply amazing how everybody knows a freend of a freend who
is a westerner who has gone to a moslem country and had offers.
-Jeem, those guys are so busy making offers they can't have time to work.
========================================================================
http://www.mcs.net/~jjd
Steatopygias's 'R' Us. doh#0000000005 That ain't no Hottentot.
Sesquipedalian's 'R' Us. ZX-10. AMA#669373 DoD#564. There ain't no more
"The aim of the law is not to punish sins." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
========================================================================
Green Eyes
I have been following this thread with interest, because it has always interested me
that in personal ads men are always looking for someone "slim". They may or may not
be, they don't always say. But what is slim? What is fat? I consider myself fat,
because I weigh 35 pounds more than my "ideal weight", and therefore meet the
medical definition of being more than 20% overweight.
However, I consider myself well groomed and well dressed. But if I answer an ad,
and the first question out of the guy's mouth is, "How much do you weigh?", I write
him off....I wouldn't want to be desireable based only on my physical attributes.
Some other contributors are right, there are a lot of deliriously happy couples out
there with great sex lives who weigh a ton more than I do.
My marriage went sour when my husband lost 30 pounds and met an older woman in his
aerobic class, which was co-ed. He became obsessive about his weight and
cholesterol, not to mention depressed, which is a known side effect of drastic
weight loss, chemically induced.
Also, I have hugged "slim" men....not nearly as fun to cuddle with as chubbier ones.
What am I saying? I like men with a little meat on their bones and one day I intend
to find one who likes the meat on my bones. This is not to say that I am not
watching my diet, and exercising regularly, but only interesting stuff like hiking
and biking, no calisthenics or aerobics. Low fat eating means I will have more time
to enjoy the days following the arrival of my prince.
Ogre
Stef Jones <st...@baygate.bayarea.net> wrote:
>brian odom <bo...@cs.indiana.edu> wrote:
>
>>when a person loses a lot of weight and they come
>>on a show, what do people do? they clap and they applaud.
So are there really a lot of people out there who think that the
people on the "shows" are representative of everyone (or even
just Americans)? This is the second time in about a month
I've seen that viewpoint hinted at, and I wonder...
>>it is a sign
>>that that person has won the war, the battle of the bulge.
>
>It's a sign that the people who clap are swallowed the cultural mainstream
>view. (I always think the "Before" pictures are cuter.)
I'm sorta reminded of seeing my Hero, Richard Harris, on a
rerun of Carson's "Tonight" show. He related how he'd given
up drinking, and the story was met with much applause. Mr.
Harris stood up and asked the audience, hands spread wide,
"Why do you always applaud someone's misery?"
--
"Most people learn from their past mistakes and in future
lives go on to grow into better people. Others, who don't,
become ogres." - E. A. Scarborough, _The Godmother_
brian odom
chee...@aol.com (Cheezits) writes:
>In article <4tvuvi$5...@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>, bit...@ix.netcom.com()
>writes:
>>1. It is unargueably ugly!
>Maybe to some people.
it is to most. if it was only maybe to some people, then fat women wouldn't
have such a problem finding dates. just the facts, ma'am.
>>2. Men don't like dating women that are heavier then themselves.
>Speak for yourself, kid.
men usually want a woman who is smaller than them. men are naturally bigger
than women. the same reason why woman usually prefer someone who is taller
than them.
>>3. It limits the activities that you can take part in. Fat people are
>>generally not athletic or able to: play any type of sport, visit the
>>beach, etc.
>"Visit the beach?!" You mean *you* wish they wouldn't visit the beach.
no, that's not what he said. fat people generally do not visit the beach
that often. many feel uncomfortable and as a result, do not go to the
beach as often. but, fat people *are* very capable of going to the beach,
so this is where he erred.
>>Bottom line is that (as you have already observed) men don't like it.
>Bottom line: you don't like it. Certainly a lot of men share that opinion.
>A lot don't.
bootom line: a lot of men share this opinion. FEW don't. or else there
wouldn't be a problem for larger women and larger women do have it rougher
than smaller women.
>>The really stupid thing is that people don't have to be fat.
>Wrong! Some people can't do anything about it.
let me guess, you can't do anything about it. speak for yourself as well.
this is such a defeatist attitude. you can do whatever you want as long
as you put your mind to it. some people can't do anything because they
expect to see instant results and refuse to stick with it. the rates of
weight loss varies from person to person, but everyone CAN do something
about it. saying some people can't do a damn thing is giving up and is
very negative and non motivational.
>This is why superficial men turn me off.
and why negative thinking (fat) women who pull wool over their eyes and
blame men and society for every single problem in the world turn me off
as well.
ke...@upompeii.com
JStarr writes:
>Why are men so quick to judge that a fat woman isn't someone they'd
>want to be with? I see men attracted to women with bad skin, negative
>attitudes, irrefutable bitches, etc. But if a woman is fat, they avoid
>her like it was a contagious condition!
It's entirely visual. Most men just find it very unattractive. I'm
sure you can think of things which would turn you off no matter how
great a personality the other person has. Ten or twenty pounds won't
make the difference, but any more and she might as well be invisable
when it comes to how most men will respond to her sexually. It might
not be that bad, but to answer your question men are very visual and
for some reason it just turns them off.
brian odom
Green Eyes <je...@iaw.on.ca.> writes:
>I have been following this thread with interest, because it has always interested me
>that in personal ads men are always looking for someone "slim". They may or may not
>be, they don't always say. But what is slim? What is fat? I consider myself fat,
>because I weigh 35 pounds more than my "ideal weight", and therefore meet the
>medical definition of being more than 20% overweight.
people have their preferences and this is one of the more common preferences
for men. women are just as guilty, if not more. personals ads are always
seeking a "tall" man. what is tall? what is short? what is acceptable?
unfortunately for a short man, he can't change his height whereas weight
can change over the course of your life. women also ask for "financially
secure" men as well. what is meant by that? 30K/yr? 50K/yr? 100K/yr?
>However, I consider myself well groomed and well dressed. But if I answer an ad,
>and the first question out of the guy's mouth is, "How much do you weigh?", I write
>him off....I wouldn't want to be desireable based only on my physical attributes.
i don't blame you. i would have a nice chat first and then exchange photos.
if i don't like what i see then i would move on. but i would never make
that the first question that i would ask. that is rude.
>Some other contributors are right, there are a lot of deliriously happy couples out
>there with great sex lives who weigh a ton more than I do.
that's true.
>My marriage went sour when my husband lost 30 pounds and met an older woman in his
>aerobic class, which was co-ed. He became obsessive about his weight and
>cholesterol, not to mention depressed, which is a known side effect of drastic
>weight loss, chemically induced.
sounds like he only cared for himself and was probably not fully satisfied
with the way you look. how anyone is so stupid to throw their wife away
like that is sad. if he wanted a smaller woman, then he shouldn't have
gotten married (to you) in the first place.
>Also, I have hugged "slim" men....not nearly as fun to cuddle with as chubbier ones.
ok, so you have your preferences about appearance. and just because you
prefer a bigger man that doesn't exactly make you a saint either.
but, this doesn't sound like it's your number one priority, so you're
not a devil. :)
>What am I saying? I like men with a little meat on their bones and one day I intend
>to find one who likes the meat on my bones. This is not to say that I am not
>watching my diet, and exercising regularly, but only interesting stuff like hiking
>and biking, no calisthenics or aerobics. Low fat eating means I will have more time
>to enjoy the days following the arrival of my prince.
well, hope he arrives one day.
Basil
On Tue, 6 Aug 1996, exuptr wrote:
> Craig Macbride wrote:
>
> > And, a bit strict. If I limited myself to women who weighed less than me,
> > I would be cutting the field down a lot.
>
> weight.
>
> among my physical fancies are musclebabes. a very stunning woman can weigh
> 200 lbs or more and you'd not know it. until she pins you to the floor ;-D
>
> > I would prefer a tallish woman, too, but to limit myself to women who
> > were towards me height and weighed less than me would be cutting down
> > the field far too much.
>
> anna nicole weighs 170 lbs. who talks about how fat she is? ok, maybe
> some idiots, but...
>
> --
> sunbird (exuptr)
>
> ObSigVirus: "some people are kooks and get ignored" - Phillip J Birmingham
>
>
Well it is hard to say what is fat??? Anyway, what we are talking
about is what attracts men.... It is false to say men would not go out
with women who weigh more than them....It depends how much more and how
it looks on a woman.... I am a rather slim guy so I would not go out with
a 200 lbs girl, but a girl who is 160 and 5'10 would not bother me....
A girl who is chubby can be seen as sexy.... I, personally, am not turned
on by the models who have no flesh on them at all... I am not looking for
a woman who is twice my size or a woman who looks like she badly needs food..
Basil
Basil
On 7 Aug 1996, Siobahn wrote:
> In article <4u0u1k$i...@news.missouri.edu>, From
> eng...@silver.missouri.edu (Trish Roberts), the following was written:
> > Some men have a fat fetish.
> > Some men don't
> > care.
>
> In some cultures, fat is seen as attractive and a sign of the husband's
> wealth. I have a friend who weighs 16 stones. She went on holiday to a
> Moslem country and her husband was inundated with "offers" for her. In
> western culture it is only a matter of fashion..(recall Rubens!)
> Siobahn
>
>
>
Actually, he has a point.... I know in Eastern Europe women who
would be considered quite chubby a la Marilyn Monroe are seen as
attractive... Also, in the middle east thin women are not as desirable
from what I know.
Basil
Butcher
> >brian odom <bo...@cs.indiana.edu> wrote:
> >
> >>when a person loses a lot of weight and they come
> >>on a show, what do people do? they clap and they applaud.
>
> >>it is a sign
> >>that that person has won the war, the battle of the bulge.
> >
> >It's a sign that the people who clap are swallowed the cultural mainstream
> >view. (I always think the "Before" pictures are cuter.)
>
Why be descriminator here? Let's also ask the question, "Why do fat men
turn women off???????
Butcher
Basil
On Fri, 9 Aug 1996, Allison Turner wrote:
> In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.96080...@alcor.concordia.ca>,
> Basil <b_k...@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:
>
> > On 7 Aug 1996, Siobahn wrote:
> >
> > > In article <4u0u1k$i...@news.missouri.edu>, From
> > > In some cultures, fat is seen as attractive and a sign of the husband's
> > > wealth. I have a friend who weighs 16 stones. She went on holiday to a
> > > Moslem country and her husband was inundated with "offers" for her. In
> > > western culture it is only a matter of fashion..(recall Rubens!)
> > > Siobahn
> > >
> > Actually, he has a point.... I know in Eastern Europe women who
> > would be considered quite chubby a la Marilyn Monroe are seen as
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > attractive... Also, in the middle east thin women are not as desirable
> > from what I know.
> >
> > Basil
>
> Good gawd. This culture has gotten to quite a state if Marilyn is viewed
> as "quite chubby." She had a little bit of cushioning, right? I'd class
> her in with average weight/height. Or a little bit thinner than average,
> if we're talking actual humanity and not ideals. (Considerably heavier
> than the _current_ US ideal though, which has gotten scrawnier & scrawnier
> since Marilyn died.)
>
>
> - Allison.
>
>
Don't worry Allison... What is on the TV is not what every guy wants:)
I can't imagine myself with a girl who like complete bones like on TV....
I somehow view it as unhealthy... Anyway, women naturally have some fat
they need it.... I mean women get kids men do not, so they naturally get
a little bit extra.... Many guys would dream to go with Marilyn if she
were alive... There is a balance in weight... As long as a person is
relatively healthy and not over the limit who cares... Anyway, you are
not looking to go with the entire mail population just certain ones...:)
Some men like skinny women some like chubby or less than chubby and some
like variety.... I like a balanced variety.... A healthy woman who looks
attractive whatever she is....
Basil
Ciao amicci
Allison Turner
Twitchling
On 7 Aug 1996 08:24:48 -0500, j...@MCS.COM (Jim Dutton) wrote:
> It's simply amazing how everybody knows a freend of a freend who
>is a westerner who has gone to a moslem country and had offers.
And now *so do you*.
--Lauren, waves hand
brian odom
Basil <b_k...@alcor.concordia.ca> writes:
>On 7 Aug 1996, Siobahn wrote:
>> In article <4u0u1k$i...@news.missouri.edu>, From
>> eng...@silver.missouri.edu (Trish Roberts), the following was written:
>> > Some men have a fat fetish.
>> > Some men don't
>> > care.
>>
>> In some cultures, fat is seen as attractive and a sign of the husband's
>> wealth. I have a friend who weighs 16 stones. She went on holiday to a
>> Moslem country and her husband was inundated with "offers" for her. In
>> western culture it is only a matter of fashion..(recall Rubens!)
>> Siobahn
> Actually, he has a point.... I know in Eastern Europe women who
>would be considered quite chubby a la Marilyn Monroe are seen as
>attractive... Also, in the middle east thin women are not as desirable
>from what I know.
actually, he doesn't have much of a point. there is a big difference between
quite chubby a la marilyn monroe (i never considered her chubby anyways)
and being 270 lbs. an attractive chubby woman would be rosie o'donnell.
i don't consider her "fat". but, someone weighing well over the 200 mark,
very few if any cultures consider this true beauty.
Craig Macbride
j...@MCS.COM (Jim Dutton) writes:
> It's simply amazing how everybody knows a freend of a freend who
>is a westerner who has gone to a moslem country and had offers.
Well, I don't know anyone who that's happened to. But, most people I
know avoid muslim countries, with the exception of Malaysia, which is
only a bit muslim, except in Kelantan.
John Fereira
In article <DvstH...@iglou.com> og...@iglou2.iglou.com (Ogre) writes:
>Stef Jones <st...@baygate.bayarea.net> wrote:
>>brian odom <bo...@cs.indiana.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>when a person loses a lot of weight and they come
>>>on a show, what do people do? they clap and they applaud.
>
>people on the "shows" are representative of everyone (or even
>just Americans)? This is the second time in about a month
>I've seen that viewpoint hinted at, and I wonder...
not the fact that they are now thin. I would hardly consider myself
representative of a talk show audience but when someone has achieved
the kind of accomplishment of losing 70 pounds, quitting smoking, turning
their life around from a life of crime, or any other significant change
in their life the requires a considerable amount of dedication and effort
on their part I can respect that and applaud them.
--
John Fereira
fer...@isis.com
Isis Distributed Systems - Ithaca, NY
Falina
In article <Dvqur...@scn.org>, bb...@scn.org (James Conway) writes:
>
>In a previous article, td...@hili.com (Tom duda) says:
>
>>I think society is the main problem! Just watch tv for a half hour.
>
> To blame is the last desperate act of a coward. Not talking
>to anyone of course just making a statement.
>
> I stayed away from this thread because it would be too easy
>to be labeled an unnice guy for having opinions in this matter,
>but I can not restrain myself anymore. Besides I am not a nice
>guy, whimp, or dishonest but useful rag B^).
And I too can no longer restrain myself.
>
> [paragraph: Famine & Fat]
[paragraph: Health & Fat]
> ..... For the
>consideration of yourself and your family it is best not to allow
>yourself to .......
starting to get preachy here.
> Of course, the other extreme is not healthy either. I am not
>my body. But neither do I abuse it.
Excuse me, but you are getting into blame politics here (didn't you say
something about blame up above?). *Just* because a person is *fat*
(whatever that is) does not mean that they abuse their bodies. What I
think you really mean to say is that fat people abuse thier bodies by
sitting around all day shoveling down the chocolate bonbons(?). Their are
plenty of not-fat people who eat terribly and don't exercise; yet they do
not visibly wear the *proof* of this so-called abuse. It is not fair to
single out fat people as abusers of their own bodies when there are people
of all pursuasions and pursuasive body-types abusing their bodies in a
variety of ways (smoking, over-eating, drugs, alcohol etc).
Having a healthy relationship
>with your body is an _indication_ of your mental health and an
>ability to have positive relationships outside yourself.
And you can see at a glance (obviously) that the fat person does not have a
healthy relationship with zer body? Not-fat people can have even more
non-healthy relationships with their bodies. I wonder what the stat is on
the number of fat people receiving mental health care versus the number of
anorexics and bulemics receiving it.
The fact
>is a _healthy_ body also indicates a person able to love themselves
>and the opposite a lack of self love.
First of all, a healthy body is not the one and only indicator of
self-love. Love of life and its pleasures can be one; seeking knowledge
and education - another (etc). There are too many indicators and too many
variables in what individuals deem as important to themselves
The only thing that a healthy (looking) body indicates is that a person has
attended to their body in some way or another, and sometimes in excess
(sometimes I feel that people expend too much energy in attaining that
perfect body that proves ( ) to the world). Ironically, there are people
walking around (yes they may be near you) with perfectly healthy looking
bodies who don't deserve it! Yes, it's true, there are healthy looking
bodies that are fueled by nothing but junk food and maintain every svelte
muscle in their bodies by doing nothing but sitting at the computer and
typing.
I'm beginning to think that this holy crusade against "obesity" under the
guise of health concerns is a crock - a cover-up to discriminate against
something that we (generally) somehow have found aestheticly unappealing.
(or sexually unappealing to be more specific back to the original thread
which was about fat girlfriends). I think that I have personally known too
many people who have been fat thoughout their lives and lived to old age,
and too many fat people who are athetleticly capable and fit, and loved too
many fat people who were able to love me in return and give *so much* of
themselves to me for this argument to have any meaning at all to me.
We all know that a person
>that does not like themselves can't love others in truth. Turn off
>city.
We all know that? Well, in truth it's based on some psychological theory I
think, but it does make sense and seem logical. But what is not logical is
to conclude that fat people unequivocally do not love themselves and then
immediatly slot them into this catagory.
The rest of this lays blame and reads like a lecture - all I can say is
that there is much to celebrate and much to value in humanity that has more
to do with the mind and the spirit than with the body.
Falina
Scott C Nichols
bit...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
: Hello,
:
: J Starr writes:
:
[stuff about how fat people are ugly, and can't participate in normal
activities...snipped.]
: Bottom line is that (as you have already observed) men don't like it.
: The really stupid thing is that people don't have to be fat. You can
: spout genetics at me all day, but with exercise and a good diet anyone
: can get in shape. IMHO most fat people are comfortable with their
: appearance, or at least they are not willing to make the changes
: required to lower their weight.
This, IMO, is a rather biased opinion. Losing weight is not simply a
matter of eating less and exercise.
Example: a few years ago, I lived at about 7500' above sea level in the
Rocky Mountains. At the time, I was slightly over weight (25 lbs or so),
but not to the point where I couldn't do things. I moved to this town
from sea level, so I had to develop mountain lungs to be able to
run/bike/swim, etc.. After a few months, I regularly swam 1 mile, and
ran/biked/played sports for about 1 hour after work every day. On the
weekends it would not be unusually for the group of us to mountain bike
for 6-8 hours (this invluded elevation changes of 2000+') which amounted to
about 20-30 miles, or go hiking all day. I was able to do all this, but I
still didn't lose much weight, throughout the 8 months I lived there. My
diet at the time was relatively heathy, not perfect, but not full of fast
food, snacks, etc..
Obesity has become an epidemic throughout the developed nations of the
world. It isn't simply in America. See Gibbs, W.W., "Gaining on Fat,"
SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN 275 (2), 88-94, 1996 for a more scientific viewpoint
on the obesity problems that the world is facing. I just don't believe
that fixing the obesity problem is a simple manner of exercise and eating
better--BTW what constitutes eating better? Are we simply going to
blame people for getting fat on McDonald's and our lack of exercise?
Maybe diets, in general, before the industrial revelution were drastically
different than today? What I mean by this is maybe even our heathy foods
of today are prepared/eaten differently than they were 200+ years ago?
Maybe our 20th century lifestyle (besides the general high protein/fat
diets) causes our bodies to store excess fat? My point is, pointing
fingers soley at the fat people just doesn't seem to be the complete
answer, this is a problem that exists in every developed country. The
question is, why does obesity exist everywhere?
Scott Nichols
s...@nmia.com
Harry Nettles
The same reason that women are turned off by fat men. The solution is to
start dieting and exercising.
J. Starr wrote:
> This is an honest question, so please answer honestly. If you can't resist
> being insulting, post your response in public (or I'll do it for you!)
> Why are men so quick to judge that a fat woman isn't someone they'd want
> to be with? I see men attracted to women with bad skin, negative attitudes,
> irrefutable bitches, etc. But if a woman is fat, they avoid her like it
> was a contagious condition! Now, I know fat isn't generally considered
> attractive, but no one is perfect (well, not many). There are very few
> "beautiful" couples. Why is fat such an instant "disqualifier"?--
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
Harry Nettles - "#1 Eligible Bachelor in the Universe"®
http://www.concentric.net/~glvreg/index.shtml
Andreas Tovornik
Siobahn (10171...@compuserve.com) writes:
> In article <4u0u1k$i...@news.missouri.edu>, From
> eng...@silver.missouri.edu (Trish Roberts), the following was written:
>> Some men have a fat fetish.
>> Some men don't
>> care.
>
> In some cultures, fat is seen as attractive and a sign of the husband's
> wealth. I have a friend who weighs 16 stones. She went on holiday to a
> Moslem country and her husband was inundated with "offers" for her. In
> western culture it is only a matter of fashion..(recall Rubens!)
> Siobahn
I don't think it's necessary to look at cultural norms and mores
when it comes to what we, as individuals, find attractive...
There is no reason to look at what your peers think of as being
attractive. All you need to do is know what you find attractive,
and pursue it. It's pointless to give a damn what the world may
think because in the end it's more important to please yourself than
it is to look for approval from society or the fashions surrounding
you. Blaze your own trail to happiness...
In case anyone's been wondering, the current fashions of wafer-thin
body size and flat proportion in North America give me quite a soft-on...
Surgical enhancement or reduction of any characteristic to supposedly
increase or improve attractiveness makes me desire the heaving of that
which I most recently ate and other gastric fluids. When it comes to
permanent skin illustrations or ornamentation by way of hanging metallic
objects from artificial orifices, my invariable reaction is to whisper
to myself, "why?"
The only scars or mutilations that don't bother me much are those
that come along as a result of having one's life saved through
surgery...
--
'dreas... If you want something bad enough, you will get it.
VictoriaTaxi15 When you get it, you may wonder why you wanted it.
Bradd W. Szonye
Trish Roberts <eng...@silver.missouri.edu> wrote in article
<4u4nv8$p...@news.missouri.edu>...
> In article <4u16ee$4...@piano.cs.indiana.edu>,
> brian odom <bo...@cs.indiana.edu> wrote:
> >bit...@ix.netcom.com() writes:
> >>J Starr writes:
>
> >>>Why are men so quick to judge that a fat woman isn't someone they'd
> >>>want to be with?
> >>1. It is unargueably ugly! Fat is a big turn off and that is all there
> >>is to it. I'm sure there are some mutants that get turned on by fat
> >>women, but for the majority of us it is ugly.
>
> as it is argued with some frequency. The original question asked why it
> is considered more ugly than other things, btw, which you haven't
> answered. (And try answering it for yourself.)
Fat isn't quite the turnoff it was, say, 10 years ago. People still aren't
going around looking for enormous mates, but I think there's a lot more
tolerance these days. Until this century, plump-to-fat was attractive, as
fat is generally a sign of success in a world where life is hard and food
is scarce. It's only recently, and only in the industrial world, that
people can afford the "luxury" of being thin. Notice also that (older) fat
men tend to command more respect than thin men.
Personally, I don't mind a woman who's less than razor-sharp-fit. I don't
purposefully seek out women who outweigh me, but I'm not in perfect shape
and I don't demand my mate to be either.
--
Bradd W. Szonye (bra...@ix.netcom.com)
http://www.netcom.com/~bradds/nutty.html
Bradd W. Szonye
Twitchling <lho...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<3204d384...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>...
> On 4 Aug 1996 01:23:00 GMT, eng...@silver.missouri.edu (Trish Roberts)
> wrote:
> >In article <4tt9ls$5...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>,
> >J. Starr <di...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
> >>Now, I know fat isn't generally considered attractive, but no one is
perfect
> >>(well, not many). There are very few "beautiful" couples. Why is fat
such
> >>an instant "disqualifier"?
> >
> >care.
> >
> I hereby submit a suggestion to spend some time in Africa or India,
> especially the former. Holy tamole. You would've thought I was
> Bridgette Bardot.
The only places where fat is unattractive is where it is "plain" such as
modern America where lifestyles and diets make it very easy to be
overweight. In non-industrialized cultures, fat is a status symbol. Even
here and now, fat commands respect if not attraction. Self-confident,
successful people who are large (because of muscle or fat) draw power from
their physical presence. Consider Orson Welles or Oprah Winfrey. Both are
(were) self-confident, successful, and overweight. Both are attractive
people commanding respect.
> [...] it appears he thinks
> the work of Renoir and Ruebens to be the height of female
> attractiveness. Imagine that.
Renaissance artists loved full-figured women. There's something very
powerful about them. Even the Greeks, who worshipped physical perfection,
sculpted their women rather curvily. There's also something powerful about
a well-toned, moderately muscular woman. It's when this goes to ridiculous
extremes that people get turned off. It's not the fat most people dislike,
it's bizarre extremes.
> One thing that does help, however, is believing that you are indeed
> attractive. Even faking it helps. I found a number of years ago when
> I finally started down that road that all sorts of men started coming
> out of the woodwork. It appeared that it wasn't my roundness that had
> necessarily repelled them (although I'm sure that was the case for
> some); it was my own certainty that I was repulsive that repelled
> them. And why wouldn't it?
This is the key, I think. Fat in itself is not ugly. It's when fat is piled
heavily (pun intended) on top of a defeatist attitude, lack of self-esteem,
and careless hygiene that it becomes unattractive. I'm as superficial about
appearances as anyone, but it's not fat or thin or tan or tall that turns
me on and off. It's confidence, care, and style that I look for.
Bradd W. Szonye
Green Eyes <je...@iaw.on.ca.> wrote in article <DvsKv...@iaw.on.ca>...
> I have been following this thread with interest, because it has always
interested me
> that in personal ads men are always looking for someone "slim". They may
or may not
> be, they don't always say. But what is slim? What is fat? I consider
myself fat,
> because I weigh 35 pounds more than my "ideal weight", and therefore meet
the
> medical definition of being more than 20% overweight.
>
This, I think is what is important. This is what attracts *me* to a woman,
not her size. It's like a woman I'm rather attracted to at work. She's
definitely overweight, but she's very cute, friendly, well-dressed, and has
a sweet demeanor. She's also usually headed to the gym after work, so I
know that her weight "problem" is not from carelessness. I barely know her,
yet I find that I want to get to know her better.
> What am I saying? I like men with a little meat on their bones and one
day I intend
> to find one who likes the meat on my bones. This is not to say that I am
not
> watching my diet, and exercising regularly, but only interesting stuff
like hiking
> and biking, no calisthenics or aerobics. Low fat eating means I will
have more time
> to enjoy the days following the arrival of my prince.
I lost a lot of weight once due to depression. I had always been overweight
before that time in my life. Getting thinner did not get me dates. Getting
over my depression and finding some self-confidence did. I like a woman
with a little "meat" too--sometimes a lot. But only if she has a good
attitude, confidence, and presents herself well. Fat isn't ugly; sloppiness
and carelessness are.
jen kilmer
Butcher <br...@conceptgroup.com> wrote in article
<bradf-09089...@netalliance.com>...
| Why be descriminator here? Let's also ask the question,
| "Why do fat men turn women off???????
You're assuming they do. A man's bodyfat percentage
is not a determining factor for me. But then, neither is
a woman's.....
:-)
--
jen kilmer -=- je...@saranac.microsoft.com -=- iptd testing
The statements in this message are my own personal views and
do not necessarily reflect the official views of Microsoft.
Jim Dutton
In article <4uhmjp$4...@aggedor.rmit.EDU.AU>,
Craig Macbride <cr...@rmit.edu.au> wrote:
>j...@MCS.COM (Jim Dutton) writes:
>
>> It's simply amazing how everybody knows a freend of a freend who
>>is a westerner who has gone to a moslem country and had offers.
>
>Well, I don't know anyone who that's happened to. But, most people I
>know avoid muslim countries, with the exception of Malaysia, which is
>only a bit muslim, except in Kelantan.
Why you leetle name dropper.
-Jeem, moslem, muslim, mosanbeek. stuff'r in the potatoe sack three times a week
========================================================================
http://www.mcs.net/~jjd
Steatopygias's 'R' Us. doh#0000000005 That ain't no Hottentot.
Sesquipedalian's 'R' Us. ZX-10. AMA#669373 DoD#564. There ain't no more
"Politically Correct" is Incorrect. "Socially Sensitive" is correct.
========================================================================
Jill
I have given up on finding a man over the Internet, too. I mostly read
personals now for the amusement.
I always love the way the men whine about how women don't like "nice
guys" yet about 75% of the men who post messages are looking for a woman
with a supermodel body. Now, if you look around in theaters, malls,
amusement parks, etc..., you will see that only about 5% of the women
have supermodel bodies. So, we have a situation where 75% of the men
are scrambling and clawing for 5% of the women and these men wonder why
they are alone? There are LOTS of great women out there -- we are just
not all a Size 2!
The thing that REALLY amuses me is that looks change with time. There is
NO GUARANTEE that a Size 2 woman today will not be a Size 22 in ten years!
And the opposite is true too. So, what happens when Miss Skinny gains
80 pounds after popping out a few kids for Mr. Shallow? Is he going to
leave her? Probably... I wonder how he will explain to his kids that he
is divorcing mommy because he only loved her body and not her?
The bottom line is that is makes NO SENSE to judge potential partners solely
on looks. As people get older, the outer shell will change. Maybe the
real problem here is that Americans seem to be go into marriages with the
"if it doesn't work out, I'll..." attitude.
And, let's face it...any man who would not date a woman based on her
weight is rather shallow anyway and probably NOT the type of person most women
would want anyway. I realize that woman can be just as shallow as many
post ads saying things like "ISO tall, handsome, financially secure, etc..."
But, then again, these are probably not the kind of high quality women most
men would want anyway... So, hopefully, the superficial marry the
superficial which leaves better pickings for us non-shallow folks...
And a funny side note - About a month ago, one of my friends set out on a
mission to find a man for me. She plays matchmaker a lot... Anyway, she
asked what I look for in a man and I gave her this list of inner qualities
like personality, intelligence, sense of humor, romantic, supportive, must
treat me well, etc... After about 2 minutes, she interrupted me and asked
"No, I mean what do you want in the LOOKS department." I was a little shocked
by the question because looks hadn't even crossed my mind. If a man has
all the inner qualities I am seeking, I'm sure I will find his outer shell
to be absolutely gorgeous.
I don't only smile for the camera
On 12 Aug 1996, Jill wrote:
> I have given up on finding a man over the Internet, too. I mostly read
> personals now for the amusement.
(Finding a person over the internet heheh can be dangerous to your
health...:)
Who wants to love a woman in Timbuktu for crying out loud.... Local women
are less troublesome.... I can find some people at university or through
friends... Just increase your circle of friends and it will help....
As far as personals, I have nto really tried those things, but a friend
did and he did for some dates and excitement and got some of
it....Anything is possible theoretically...I know a close friend who met
a girl thru the net but they are from the same city.... I am no expert on
what is the sure way to make things work:) I guess, that is what they
call trial and error:)
>
> I always love the way the men whine about how women don't like "nice
> guys" yet about 75% of the men who post messages are looking for a woman
> with a supermodel body. Now, if you look around in theaters, malls,
> amusement parks, etc..., you will see that only about 5% of the women
> have supermodel bodies. So, we have a situation where 75% of the men
> are scrambling and clawing for 5% of the women and these men
wonder why > they are alone? The
Hold on I am a "nice" guy.... I happen to not mind chubby women... I just
don't appreciate women who are way too large for my size.... Fair enough?
I mean I am 5'8 140lbs it would make no sense for me to go with a woman
more than 25 lbs more than me... I wouldnt feel uncomfortable with a
woman 5'10 170lbs but beyond that I would not feel comfortable... If I
were a bigger guy than I woudln't mind....I am not clamboring for the 5%..:)
Everyone has different tastes... Some men are brainwashded by American media
to think extremely thin women are the beauty ideal... I like the
in-between look....
re are LOTS of great women out there -- we are just> not all a Size 2!
>
> The thing that REALL amuses me is that looks change with time. There is
> NO GUARANTEE that a Size 2 woman today will not be a Size 22 in ten years!
> And the opposite is true too. So, what happens when Miss Skinny gains
> 80 pounds after popping out a few kids for Mr. Shallow? Is he going to
> leave her? Probably... I wonder how he will explain to his kids that he
> is divorcing mommy because he only loved her body and not her?
>
Well, I would probably in the first place like to go with a healthy woman
who is stable and would keep a stable weight and doesn't have to kill herself
to be her figure..I don't know what a size 2 is:) LOL
I wouldn't leave a woman for gaining weight especially if I am her
husband or somethin' . I am not cruel... I would tell her for her own
sake to lose weight and not mine.... Because I know she wouldn't be
feeling happy if she gained that much weight....
> The bottom line is that is makes NO SENSE to judge potential partners solely
> on looks. As people get older, the outer shell will change. Maybe the
> real problem here is that Americans seem to be go into marriages with the
> "if it doesn't work out, I'll..." attitude.
Hello well you can not judge a person on looks for sure... Suppose a woman
is a bombshell and gives you a lot of the kind of affection you like, but
than you are used to her physically and she has nothing more you will
just go to another woman. I am not American I am Canadian... I will say
in North America people do quit too quickly on marriages sometimes or
marry for the wrong idea of commitment....
>
> And, let's face it...any man who would not date a woman based on her
> weight is rather shallow anyway and probably NOT the type of person most women
> would want anyway. I realize that woman can be just as shallow as many
> post ads saying things like "ISO tall, handsome, financially secure, etc..."
> But, then again, these are probably not the kind of high quality women most
> men would want anyway... So, hopefully, the superficial marry the
> superficial which leaves better pickings for us non-shallow folks...
>
> And a funny side note - About a month ago, one of my friends set out on a
> mission to find a man for me. She plays matchmaker a lot... Anyway, she
> asked what I look for in a man and I gave her this list of inner qualities
> like personality, intelligence, sense of humor, romantic, supportive, must
> treat me well, etc... After about 2 minutes, she interrupted me and asked
> "No, I mean what do you want in the LOOKS department." I was a little
shocked
> by the question because looks hadn't even crossed my mind. If a man has
> all the inner qualities I am seeking, I'm sure I will find his outer shell
> to be absolutely gorgeous.
>
>
Well, that is the way I think..... I don't think any woman who shares my
qualities will be unattractive.... Maybe people who think alike look alike?
Just a thought.....
Jim Dutton
In article <4unjou$qd4$2...@mhadf.production.compuserve.com>,
Jill <7000...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>And, let's face it...any man who would not date a woman based on her
>weight is rather shallow anyway and probably NOT the type of person most women
>would want anyway. I realize that woman can be just as shallow as many
>post ads saying things like "ISO tall, handsome, financially secure, etc..."
>But, then again, these are probably not the kind of high quality women most
>men would want anyway... So, hopefully, the superficial marry the
>superficial which leaves better pickings for us non-shallow folks...
anything else would be shallow. Tell your hormones to get politically
correct and do it now.
>And a funny side note - About a month ago, one of my friends set out on a
>mission to find a man for me. She plays matchmaker a lot... Anyway, she
>asked what I look for in a man and I gave her this list of inner qualities
>like personality, intelligence, sense of humor, romantic, supportive, must
>treat me well, etc... After about 2 minutes, she interrupted me and asked
>"No, I mean what do you want in the LOOKS department." I was a little shocked
>by the question because looks hadn't even crossed my mind. If a man has
>all the inner qualities I am seeking, I'm sure I will find his outer shell
>to be absolutely gorgeous.
You and Chaney would be a cute couple.
-Jeem, any men who don't date obese women are shallow. Spot the irony.
========================================================================
http://www.mcs.net/~jjd
Steatopygias's 'R' Us. doh#0000000005 That ain't no Hottentot.
Sesquipedalian's 'R' Us. ZX-10. AMA#669373 DoD#564. There ain't no more
"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little long
er. " -- Henry Kissinger
========================================================================
David O'Bedlam
On 3 Aug 1996 bit...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> IMHO most fat people are comfortable with their appearance, or at least
> they are not willing to make the changes required to lower their weight.
Well, there ya got me. In order to lower my weight from it's current
planet-busting 135# I'd hafta do situps till I keeled over, eat only
ONE small meal a day and -- the hard part -- get up from my computer
chair for anything besides peeing, sleeping and getting more coffee.
So are there any women on soc.singles who dig guys who can pinch one
inch? Or does that doom me to be a forever single identityless blob?
Opinions, please!
Geekily,
David
jen kilmer
Harry Nettles <glv...@cris.com> wrote in article
<320E16...@cris.com>...
| The same reason that women are turned off by fat men. The solution is to
| start dieting and exercising.
Maybe you're turned off by fat men, but I am not turned off by
fatness. Arrogantly assuming one knows what *all* men or
women think, now.....
Nonomin
I think that most people will agree that fat is unattractive. I do NOT
agree that people who are with or happen to be attracted to fat or
overweight people, men AND women, are mutants. I don't think that we have
to be mean when we are discussing the problems that people may not have
control over. You wouldn't call a person who was in love with an
alcoholic a mutant.
As far as fat being unattractive.. I think that many people, even fat
people, will admit that they will look admiringly at a thin person and
look with some disdain at an overweight person. I also think that if the
overweight people who take offense at the comments made in here were
honest they would admit to themselves that they look better with their
clothes on then in the nude. Just ask a heavy person if they like to have
sex with the lights on.
So I think that it is not just generally fat women that turn men off..it
is the fat itself. Men are very visual and generally get aroused by what
they SEE, hence.. wanting sex with the lights on, seeing a woman with a
nice figure and not folds of fat, saggy breasts and stretch marks. I know
this sounds mean but if everyone were honest with themselves they would
know this is true.
Now that is not to say that a man cannot fall in love with an overweight
women and overlook these things. When you love someone you overlook their
baldness, their potbellies, their saggy breasts and make the most of it.
That is what loving someone is all about..if you know them and love
them...it truly doesn't matter what they look like. We just have to
remember that we all get old and our bodies change. How many men would
like for their wives to leave them if they became bald or got a pot belly
or god forbid couldn't sustain an erection?
So I hope this helped! :) I am stepping off my soapbox for now..anyone who
wants feel free to email me.
Min
theurgy
In article <4unjou$qd4$2...@mhadf.production.compuserve.com>,
Jill <7000...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>And, let's face it...any man who would not date a woman based on her
>weight is rather shallow anyway and probably NOT the type of person most women
>would want anyway. I realize that woman can be just as shallow as many
>post ads saying things like "ISO tall, handsome, financially secure, etc..."
>But, then again, these are probably not the kind of high quality women most
>men would want anyway... So, hopefully, the superficial marry the
>superficial which leaves better pickings for us non-shallow folks...
Speak for yourself. I'm shallow all the way to the bone. If some
"trivial" property like weight, acne, or a speech impediment renders some
unfortunate female unattractive to me, I look elsewhere for some innocent
girl to dazzle with my collection of 1960's black-light posters and chew
toys.
Wit's nice, but IMO greatly over-rated as a sexual turn-on.
Felicitations,
M.
Jim Dutton
In article <4uo9ur$o...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, Nonomin <non...@aol.com> wrote:
>As far as fat being unattractive.. I think that many people, even fat
>people, will admit that they will look admiringly at a thin person and
>look with some disdain at an overweight person. I also think that if the
>overweight people who take offense at the comments made in here were
>honest they would admit to themselves that they look better with their
>clothes on then in the nude. Just ask a heavy person if they like to have
>sex with the lights on.
day he may have a partner.
>them...it truly doesn't matter what they look like. We just have to
>remember that we all get old and our bodies change. How many men would
>like for their wives to leave them if they became bald or got a pot belly
>or god forbid couldn't sustain an erection?
I think I glimpse where your pain is coming from.
-Jeem, we'll need to hear more?
========================================================================
http://www.mcs.net/~jjd
Steatopygias's 'R' Us. doh#0000000005 That ain't no Hottentot.
Sesquipedalian's 'R' Us. ZX-10. AMA#669373 DoD#564. There ain't no more
"I love my country -- I fear my government" -- ??
========================================================================
Bradd W. Szonye
Jill <7000...@CompuServe.COM> wrote in article
<4unjou$qd4$2...@mhadf.production.compuserve.com>...
> I have given up on finding a man over the Internet, too. I mostly read
> personals now for the amusement.
I have never really tried to find a woman on the 'net, but it happens. Like
in real life, looking harder doesn't make it any easier to find love. My
main problem with 'net love is the distance. Email is impersonal, snail
mail is slow, phone calls and plane trips are expensive. Chances of finding
somebody who's wonderful, secure, sane, and nearby is slim-to-none.
> The thing that REALLY amuses me is that looks change with time. There is
> NO GUARANTEE that a Size 2 woman today will not be a Size 22 in ten
years!
> And the opposite is true too. So, what happens when Miss Skinny gains
> 80 pounds after popping out a few kids for Mr. Shallow? Is he going to
> leave her? Probably... I wonder how he will explain to his kids that he
> is divorcing mommy because he only loved her body and not her?
I have an interesting (to me) anecdote about people changing. My second
true love was a bit chunky when I met her, as was I. Both of us complained
that we'd like to get in better shape. By the time we broke up, both of us
were probably in the best physical condition of our lives. We weren't buff
by any means, but we were both thin and strong and generally more
attractive. We didn't even try all that hard; mostly our desire to please
each other led to enough of a lifestyle change to slim down. As we got in
better condition, our sex life got better (which in turn led to more
physical activity). I never nagged her about her weight, but I often
complimented and encouraged her when she did lose weight.
Perhaps ironically, one of the things she later confessed to hating me for
was the pressure to lose weight.
Bradd W. Szonye
David O'Bedlam <thed...@clark.net> wrote in article
<Pine.GSO.3.95.960812153731.12752D-100000@explorer2>...
I sure hope there are women on ss and in "real life" who can deal with
pinching an inch or two. I lost a lot of weight once upon a time. I'm still
in okay shape, but some of the weight has crept back now that I'm a desk
jockey instead of a poor college student. I sympathize with people who
can't or won't lose weight. I sure don't want to go through the hell that
got rid of the weight the first time.
Thomas Sparks
beto...@sover.net (Allison Turner) wrote:
>In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.96080...@alcor.concordia.ca>,
>Basil <b_k...@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:
>
>>
>> > wealth. I have a friend who weighs 16 stones. She went on holiday to a
>> > Moslem country and her husband was inundated with "offers" for her. In
>> > western culture it is only a matter of fashion..(recall Rubens!)
>> > Siobahn
>> >
>> would be considered quite chubby a la Marilyn Monroe are seen as
>> attractive... Also, in the middle east thin women are not as desirable
>> from what I know.
>>
>
>Good gawd. This culture has gotten to quite a state if Marilyn is viewed
>as "quite chubby." She had a little bit of cushioning, right? I'd class
>her in with average weight/height. Or a little bit thinner than average,
>if we're talking actual humanity and not ideals. (Considerably heavier
>than the _current_ US ideal though, which has gotten scrawnier & scrawnier
>since Marilyn died.)
>
>
>- Allison.
Marilyn was more correctly termed "voluptuous" as was the "old" Raquel Welch who is now 56 yoa
and has taken on a thoroughly modern toned up appearance. BTW I find voluptuous women mighty
attractive--they don't have to be Marilyn or Raquel.
Trish Roberts
In article <01bb87d8$d69698a0$a9c2b7c7@zany>,
Bradd W. Szonye <bra...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
[various stuff cut to get to one point]
>Personally, I don't mind a woman who's less than razor-sharp-fit. I don't
>purposefully seek out women who outweigh me, but I'm not in perfect shape
>and I don't demand my mate to be either.
It's also worth pointing out that not-fat is not the same as fit. It's
quite possible to be thin and in terrible shape.
And even being "in shape" and being healthy aren't synonymous. They are
associated culturally, but not necessarily causally.
Whatever happened with that study that suggested that being fat was not
the cause of various health issues but that the dieting which a lot of
fat people have done was? Was that ever reproduced?
--
Trish Roberts [http://www.missouri.edu/~engpat/home.html]
eng...@showme.missouri.edu [standard disclaimer applies]
"The singular is not Love's enemy;/ Love's possibilities of realisation
Require an Otherness that can say I." (W. Auden)
kookaburra
brian odom <bo...@cs.indiana.edu> wrote:
> there is a big difference between quite chubby a la marilyn monroe (i
> never considered her chubby anyways) and being 270 lbs. an attractive
> chubby woman would be rosie o'donnell. i don't consider her "fat".
<peeve> Do you actually have any idea how much Rosie O'Donnell might
weigh?? For that matter do you even know what 200 lbs. *looks* like???
Somehow I doubt it. </peeve>
But then again, you may be afflicted with Increment Perception Disorder,
IPD[tm]. You know, the one that makes you mistake 160 lbs. for 200, or
3.25 inches for 8... I'm so sorry.
>but, someone weighing well over the 200 mark,
>very few if any cultures consider this true beauty.
and you've just returned from your world travels, in preparation for your
dissertation in Cultures?
OBBiteMe: er... I mean thank you for your insight.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
xl...@the.old.gumtree | RHFH TMA#2 ISObabe FCA | bitchy yet caustic
------------------------------------------------------------------
jeem is not for understanding. jeem is for experiencing. - -Debbie Schwartz
Ray Henry
kookaburra (hda...@ezinfo.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
: brian odom <bo...@cs.indiana.edu> wrote:
: > there is a big difference between quite chubby a la marilyn monroe (i
: > never considered her chubby anyways) and being 270 lbs. an attractive
: > chubby woman would be rosie o'donnell. i don't consider her "fat".
: <peeve> Do you actually have any idea how much Rosie O'Donnell might
: weigh?? For that matter do you even know what 200 lbs. *looks* like???
: Somehow I doubt it. </peeve>
Seems to me the only difference (aside from difference in mass) between an
attractive "fat" person and an unattractive one is in the observer.
May I suggest looking a bit deeper than the skin?
: But then again, you may be afflicted with Increment Perception Disorder,
: IPD[tm]. You know, the one that makes you mistake 160 lbs. for 200, or
: 3.25 inches for 8... I'm so sorry.
*chuckle*
: >but, someone weighing well over the 200 mark,
: >very few if any cultures consider this true beauty.
Oh, really? Then why is it that the ancient Earth Goddess depictions are
predominantly females who are _very_ poundage-gifted. In many early
cultures, large women were associated with fertility and sexuality.
<snip>
: OBBiteMe: er... I mean thank you for your insight.
Come on now, tell us what you _rilly_ think. ;)
--
Antryg - Honorary Member of the Fat Moose Association
ant...@pobox.com ant...@rmi.net rwh...@nyx.net
http://www.rmi.net/~antryg/index.html (under construction)
Bikerbabe in Black Leather
In article <4udsqm$2...@piano.cs.indiana.edu>,
brian odom <bo...@cs.indiana.edu> wrote:
>chee...@aol.com (Cheezits) writes:
>
>>In article <4tvuvi$5...@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>, bit...@ix.netcom.com()
>>writes:
>
>>>1. It is unargueably ugly!
>
>
>it is to most. if it was only maybe to some people, then fat women wouldn't
>have such a problem finding dates. just the facts, ma'am.
Your facts reek. Maybe it's because of where you got them?
Why people have trouble finding dates is a myriad of reasons, but size
or looks is among the least of them. Poor self esteem or image is a
high one, but every woman I know who is self confident and strong but
who you would label as fat, has had no problems finding dates,
partners, or lovers.
>>>2. Men don't like dating women that are heavier then themselves.
>
>>Speak for yourself, kid.
>
>men usually want a woman who is smaller than them. men are naturally bigger
>than women. the same reason why woman usually prefer someone who is taller
>than them.
That's not even a good generalization.
>>>Bottom line is that (as you have already observed) men don't like it.
>
>>Bottom line: you don't like it. Certainly a lot of men share that opinion.
>>A lot don't.
>
>bootom line: a lot of men share this opinion. FEW don't. or else there
>wouldn't be a problem for larger women and larger women do have it rougher
>than smaller women.
Quite a few don't. The reason I said above that it isn't even a good
generalization is because the ones who *do* are in the minority.
Just because It's an obnoxious, vocal minority doesn't mean that it's
true for the majority.
--
Anmar Mirza # Chief of Tranquility #How many of our #Have
EMT-D # Base, Lawrence Co.,IN #Bretheren die for#sawmill
N9ISY (tech) # Somewhere out on the #every glass of V8#will
EOL DoD#1147 # Mirza Ranch.C'mon over#Juice?. #travel.
Bikerbabe in Black Leather
In article <01bb87e5$7a431da0$806e379d@jenk-ntbk>,
jen kilmer <je...@saranac.microsoft.com> wrote:
>Butcher <br...@conceptgroup.com> wrote in article
><bradf-09089...@netalliance.com>...
>| Why be descriminator here? Let's also ask the question,
>| "Why do fat men turn women off???????
>
>You're assuming they do. A man's bodyfat percentage
>is not a determining factor for me. But then, neither is
>a woman's.....
>
>:-)
Funny, I feel the same way :-)
Bikerbabe in Black Leather
In article <4uqfsf$7...@rainbow.rmii.com>,
Ray Henry <ant...@rainbow.rmii.com> wrote:
>kookaburra (hda...@ezinfo.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
>
>: <peeve> Do you actually have any idea how much Rosie O'Donnell might
>: weigh?? For that matter do you even know what 200 lbs. *looks* like???
>: Somehow I doubt it. </peeve>
>
>Seems to me the only difference (aside from difference in mass) between an
>attractive "fat" person and an unattractive one is in the observer.
>May I suggest looking a bit deeper than the skin?
I continually find it amusing that I outmass Trygve.
Having had to lift heavy people in the course of my job (as an EMT),
all I can say is that how heavy someone is WRT their size is directly
proportional to who I'm working with that day (IE, someone who can
lift well will do their share of the load. Someone, like a couple of
regular partners of mine, who can't lift worth a damn, end up giving
me more of the load. This iss true up to the point where they decide
to call for assistance. Conversely, when I'm lifting with someone who
can lift well, when we do encounter a heavier person, we're less
likely to call for assistance, so I'm more likely to have to lift
more).
Thank you for your attention.
Bikerbabe in Black Leather
In article <4uhuh7$6...@transfer.stratus.com>,
John Fereira <fer...@isis.com> wrote:
>In article <DvstH...@iglou.com> og...@iglou2.iglou.com (Ogre) writes:
>>Stef Jones <st...@baygate.bayarea.net> wrote:
>>
>>So are there really a lot of people out there who think that the
>>people on the "shows" are representative of everyone (or even
>>just Americans)? This is the second time in about a month
>>I've seen that viewpoint hinted at, and I wonder...
>
>Maybe people are applauding the effort it took to lose the weight and
>not the fact that they are now thin. I would hardly consider myself
>representative of a talk show audience but when someone has achieved
>the kind of accomplishment of losing 70 pounds, quitting smoking, turning
>their life around from a life of crime, or any other significant change
>in their life the requires a considerable amount of dedication and effort
>on their part I can respect that and applaud them.
>
I don't know about shows because I don't watch television, but I do
know that I applaud people who work for, and achieve their goals.
This is beyond the physical side of things and goes into how much that
increase in self image and self esteem really shows through in their
person. I recently met someone who had made a major effort to change
themselves. Despite the fact that I thought them attractive before, I
found them positively glowing.
And this doesn't solely apply to physical size and shape, but to most
things.
Allison Turner
In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.960812...@alcor.concordia.ca>,
I don't only smile for the camera <b_k...@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:
[once again I'm snipping someone's perfectly reasonable prose to get to
the point I wanna criticize]
> I wouldn't leave a woman for gaining weight especially if I am her
> husband or somethin' . I am not cruel... I would tell her for her own
> sake to lose weight and not mine.... Because I know she wouldn't be
> feeling happy if she gained that much weight....
I think perhaps you'd want to check with her before you make this
assumption. I realize it may not be very common, but I'm sure there are
some people out there who like being copious, as well as those who like
others who are. For some of us there's something appealing about, for
example, men who come in the large teddy-bear size.
This culture is very hard on folks above some poorly-defined weight (all
I've been able to figure out is that the number keeps getting smaller;
I've never known what it was). If I were in the situation you described,
with a girlfriend who'd gained a lot, rather than perpetuate this problem
I'd prefer to encourage her to be happy with herself at whatever weight
she was. If she's accepted by me, then she'll probably be less stressed
and oppressed, and have more energy to do whatever it is she thinks is
important. Which might be losing weight, who knows?
I just don't see that telling someone to lose weight gets you or them
anywhere, other than in a guilt-trip situation.
- Allison.
Michael Sullivan
In article <01bb88bd$d2d21380$29c2b7c7@zany>,
Bradd W. Szonye <bra...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
[Brad and his lover both lost weight and got in better condition while
they were together.]
>We didn't even try all that hard; mostly our desire to please
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[later]
>Perhaps ironically, one of the things she later confessed to hating me for
>was the pressure to lose weight.
Maybe you didn't try all that hard -- sounds like she did.
Michael
Allison Turner
In article <4uo9ur$o...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, non...@aol.com (Nonomin) wrote:
[Some fairly reasonable stuff, which I've snipped so I can rip the rest to
shreads]
> I think that most people will agree that fat is unattractive.
I think that your definition and my definition of "most" are different. I
hope so anyway.
> I also think that if the
> overweight people who take offense at the comments made in here were
> honest they would admit to themselves that they look better with their
> clothes on then in the nude.
I think you're perpetuating a myth I particularly dislike. Why do you
assume that someone is unhappy with their weight if they are (to quote
antryg) "poundage-gifted," and offended by your derogatory comments?
(I once saw a book of photographs, which I think was called "Goddesses,"
which was truly stunningly beautiful. Nudes, all definitely gifted with
poundage. If anyone out there knows what this was actually called and who
published it, please let me know.)
> Just ask a heavy person if they like to have
> sex with the lights on.
There you go again.
[men are visually arroused only by svelt females]
> I know
> this sounds mean but if everyone were honest with themselves they
> would know this is true. ^^^^^^^^
Sheesh. You don't give up, do you.
> Now that is not to say that a man cannot fall in love with an overweight
> women and overlook these things. When you love someone you overlook their
> baldness, their potbellies, their saggy breasts and make the most of it.
> That is what loving someone is all about.
Maybe. Maybe love is all about loving the complete person, _including_
those things other people would shun them for. Or perhaps a combination
of the two. At any rate, I don't think you can make a blanket statement
about love & humanity, wherein we all have to "overlook" high weight,
baldness, potbellies and saggy breasts. Try speaking for yourself, not
everyone. It'll go over better.
> if you know them and love
> them...it truly doesn't matter what they look like.
Well. Finally, we might agree on something. Though maybe not for the
same reasons.
- Allison.
131E20000-OelligG(DR3049)210
In article <4uoled$2...@xmission.xmission.com>,
theurgy <trx...@xmission.xmission.com> wrote:
>
>
>Speak for yourself. I'm shallow all the way to the bone. If some
>"trivial" property like weight, acne, or a speech impediment renders some
>unfortunate female unattractive to me, I look elsewhere for some innocent
>girl to dazzle with my collection of 1960's black-light posters and chew
>toys.
>
>
>Felicitations,
> M.
Galen Oellig
Boulder, CO (Yes, I'm puzzled).
Stef Jones
Nonomin <non...@aol.com> wrote:
>As far as fat being unattractive.. I think that many people, even fat
>people, will admit that they will look admiringly at a thin person and
>look with some disdain at an overweight person.
This used to be somewhat true for me, but more and more, really thin people
have begun to look freakish and unhealthy to me, especially when they are
held out as sex objects. There's an ad on TV for cottage cheese, and mostly
it shows these skinny legs walking around. When I realized by the end of
the ad that these legs were supposed to be seen as the height of
attractiveness, I was really surprised, because my first, gut reaction to
seeing them was "gosh, what scrawny legs."
I don't look admiringly at a medium-size person because I know most of them
haven't done anything to make themselves that way. Most people just go
through their lives, exercising some, slacking off some, eating well and
eating poorly in turns, and maintain a medium-size body with a few fat
deposits here and there.
When I look at people who are bigger than I am, I am curious what life is
like for them.
>I also think that if the
>overweight people who take offense at the comments made in here were
>honest they would admit to themselves that they look better with their
>clothes on then in the nude. Just ask a heavy person if they like to have
>sex with the lights on.
I have never had a problem with it. I can't remember when I last made love
with the lights off, and usually when I do, I'm not thinking "Oh thank
goddess I can hide my ugly body in the darkness; I'm thinking "Dammit, I
can't see whether I'm putting the condom on inside out!"
>So I think that it is not just generally fat women that turn men off..it
>is the fat itself. Men are very visual and generally get aroused by what
>they SEE, hence.. wanting sex with the lights on, seeing a woman with a
>nice figure and not folds of fat, saggy breasts and stretch marks. I know
>this sounds mean but if everyone were honest with themselves they would
>know this is true.
No doubt some unfortunate people can only get aroused by a "flawless"
figure. There are all kinds of fetishes -- sexual orientations where
someone *needs* a particular thing present to achieve satisfaction. Needing
a particular body type is one of them.
But most people have folds, sags, and stretch marks, and most people are
sexually active, so I think plenty of people are managing to get turned on
in the context of all those "blemishes."
>Now that is not to say that a man cannot fall in love with an overweight
>women and overlook these things. When you love someone you overlook their
>baldness, their potbellies, their saggy breasts and make the most of it.
Close, but no cigar...when I fall in love, I don't "overlook" my lover's
body; I *love* it, no matter what it's like. I can shift perspective and
see my lover's body objectively, compare it to current societal standards,
but I have to make an effort to do so.
--
Stef ** rational/scientific/philosophical/mystical/magical/kitty **
** st...@bayarea.net ** http://www.bayarea.net/~stef **
--------------------------------------------------------
Good literature is about Love and War.
Junk fiction is about Sex and Violence. -- Ofer Inbar
ke...@upompeii.com
Stef Jones <st...@baygate.bayarea.net> wrote:
>brian odom <bo...@cs.indiana.edu> wrote:
>>it is a sign
>>that that person has won the war, the battle of the bulge.
>
>It's a sign that the people who clap are swallowed the cultural
mainstream
>view. (I always think the "Before" pictures are cuter.)
How much of this is rationalization on your part? The main opponants of
the hierarchy of attractiveness are those at the bottem, as in any
system. I understand why the people in the audience applauded. Losing
weight is one way in which people gain control of their lives. It's not
the only way, but we all fight battles like that.
A lot of life isn't fair, and I think most people at the extremes of
anything understand that (from wealth to health to attractiveness to
whatever). But to deny that the game exists, in my opinion, is a kind
of defeatism all in itself (although heck, maybe there is some maturity
in knowing that no one has to enter every event, and that a happy life
doesn't depend upon "winning" any event).
theurgy
goe...@crestedb.dr.att.com (131E20000-OelligG(DR3049)210) writes:
>In article <4uoled$2...@xmission.xmission.com>,
>theurgy <trx...@xmission.xmission.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>Speak for yourself. I'm shallow all the way to the bone. If some
>>"trivial" property like weight, acne, or a speech impediment renders some
>>unfortunate female unattractive to me, I look elsewhere for some innocent
>>girl to dazzle with my collection of 1960's black-light posters and chew
>>toys.
>>
>Don't forget your collection of 3-D lucite puzzles (drool...)
They only seem to impress men. Pity.
Felicitations,
M. who will bring ten puzzles to his next boink.
Trish Roberts
In article <3207BE...@exu.ericsson.se>,
exuptr <exu...@exu.ericsson.se> wrote:
[standard fat thread going on]
>weight.
[stuff cut]
>anna nicole weighs 170 lbs. who talks about how fat she is? ok, maybe
>some idiots, but...
I think she weighed a lot more than 170 when people were talking about
her being fat. I *think* something like 170 was her Guess Jeans weight.
(Maybe 160) But, for 5'10, isn't that pretty close to the recommended
weight? I think her fat weight (e.g., the Oscars) was around 200.
Btw, what is it about this topic that brings out the total loons? Last
time I posted on a fat thread I got semi-incoherent email from some twerp.
This time I have gotten into a bizarre exchange the highpoint of which is
not one, not two, but *three* pieces of long email with the
I-will-rant-on-about-how-you-are-wrong-but-I'll-complain-to-your-provider-
if-you-respond song and dance.
This was a tag-team endeavor, which gave them an edge, but it was the
most extreme case I've seen.
Maybe fat threads make for good trolling.
Bradd W. Szonye
Michael Sullivan <m...@panix.com> wrote in article
<4ur1et$5...@panix2.panix.com>...
> In article <01bb88bd$d2d21380$29c2b7c7@zany>,
> Bradd W. Szonye <bra...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> [Brad and his lover both lost weight and got in better condition while
> they were together.]
> >Perhaps ironically, one of the things she later confessed to hating me
for
> >was the pressure to lose weight.
>
> Maybe you didn't try all that hard -- sounds like she did.
Could be. What was "odd" about it at the time was the approach I'd tried to
take. I wasn't trying to pressure her; I wasn't condescending or mean about
it. I was just trying to be encouraging about something I thought she
wanted for herself.
Another post about how some people don't *want* to change... That sounds
like a likely rationale behind her reaction. Despite the fact that I tried
to be encouraging and supportive, if she didn't really want to deal with
it, encouraging and supportive can *still* be pushy.
exuptr
Craig Macbride wrote:
> You really want to know my yardstick, so to speak? If I can lift her,
> she's not too heavy!
heh. what if you can't lift her because you can't catch her? :-D
> ... and, while I'm not that strong, I can lift women who weigh at least
> 30kg more than me.
i have no problem with 180 lbs but haven't tried anyone heavier.
> Of course, if they are lighter, that can leave more
> interesting possibilities.
like juggling, or what??
--
sunbird (exuptr)
ObSigVirus: "some people are kooks and get ignored" - Phillip J Birmingham
exuptr
theurgy wrote:
> Speak for yourself. I'm shallow all the way to the bone. If some
> "trivial" property like weight, acne, or a speech impediment renders some
> unfortunate female unattractive to me, I look elsewhere for some innocent
> girl to dazzle with my collection of 1960's black-light posters and chew
> toys.
what can i say, i won't know until i see hir until i know what the effect will
be. sometimes i'm shallow and sometimes not. but a beautiful smile and bright
eyes will almost always get me.
> Wit's nice, but IMO greatly over-rated as a sexual turn-on.
it certainly works for some. for me, i'd say it helps a great deal. also
a positive, cheerful attitude is important. someone who just looks like sie
is having fun.
BTW, it was cool meeting you, M.
exuptr
Bikerbabe in Black Leather wrote:
> A man's bodyfat percentage is not a determining factor for me.
> Funny, I feel the same way :-)
heh. and here i was worrying if i am too skinny.
Ray Henry
Allison Turner (beto...@sover.net) wrote:
: [Some fairly reasonable stuff, which I've snipped so I can rip the rest to
: shreads]
: > I think that most people will agree that fat is unattractive.
: I think that your definition and my definition of "most" are different. I
: hope so anyway.
Hmmm...I think I kinda see where this was pointing. I'd have to agree
that our society has adopted the toothpick look as the ultimate expression
of physical beauty. However, I'd like to think not everyone is that
superficial. I know I have fallen for people in the past who were not
necessarily attractive by "common" standards, yet I found them
delightfully attractive at the time. (And still do, for the ones I've
stayed in touch with.)
: > I also think that if the
: > overweight people who take offense at the comments made in here were
: > honest they would admit to themselves that they look better with their
: > clothes on then in the nude.
: I think you're perpetuating a myth I particularly dislike. Why do you
: assume that someone is unhappy with their weight if they are (to quote
: antryg) "poundage-gifted," and offended by your derogatory comments?
I agree. I'm hearing a value judgement there, as if everyone must
perceive themselves according to a single list of qualities. Frankly,
I've found that, in some ways, clothing can detract from the beauty of
_any_ person. The human body is a wonderful thing; why be ashamed of it?
OTOH, a well done wardrobe can also enhance one's attractiveness. It's
all value and perception. Personally, I'm satisfied with myself under any
lighting conditions, clothed or otherwise.
: (I once saw a book of photographs, which I think was called "Goddesses,"
: which was truly stunningly beautiful. Nudes, all definitely gifted with
: poundage. If anyone out there knows what this was actually called and who
: published it, please let me know.)
Hmmm...I too am interested. Sounds like a very unique book.
: > Just ask a heavy person if they like to have
: > sex with the lights on.
: There you go again.
Well, you know, photons have been shown to abrade the surface of the skin,
resulting in heightened sensitivity to the graviton flux of the Earth's
crust, causing increased discomfort and a latex aversion. ;)
: [men are visually arroused only by svelt females]
: > I know
: > this sounds mean but if everyone were honest with themselves they
: > would know this is true. ^^^^^^^^
: Sheesh. You don't give up, do you.
*heh* Just likes that word "everyone", I guess.
: > Now that is not to say that a man cannot fall in love with an overweight
: > women and overlook these things. When you love someone you overlook their
: > baldness, their potbellies, their saggy breasts and make the most of it.
: > That is what loving someone is all about.
: Maybe. Maybe love is all about loving the complete person, _including_
: those things other people would shun them for. Or perhaps a combination
: of the two. At any rate, I don't think you can make a blanket statement
: about love & humanity, wherein we all have to "overlook" high weight,
: baldness, potbellies and saggy breasts. Try speaking for yourself, not
: everyone. It'll go over better.
As Brain would say,"YES!" I've found that when I fall in love with
someone, every sag, stretch mark, and other flaw becomes positively
beautiful, in part because they help make that person who zie is.
Love doesn't know ugly. (IME)
: > if you know them and love
: > them...it truly doesn't matter what they look like.
: Well. Finally, we might agree on something. Though maybe not for the
: same reasons.
Probably not.
--
Antryg - Fan of High explosives and nutmeg
Robert Harter
If she's accepted by me, then she'll probably be less stressed
> and oppressed, and have more energy to do whatever it is she thinks is
> important. Which might be losing weight, who knows?
>
> I just don't see that telling someone to lose weight gets you or them
> anywhere, other than in a guilt-trip situation.
>
> - Allison.
Bravo,
Good point and well put!!
Bob
Jill
I have been following this thread with interest. I am glad to see that
most of the men who have posted have stated that attitude and inner
qualities mean more to them than what is on the outside. Hmmmmm...this is
very encouraging. We women have been taught from the time we were very
young that if we are bigger than a Size 6, we are worthless and ugly, etc...
I have never believed this, but I know a lot of women who do and I find it
very sad. It's great to know there are men out there who are looking
for inner qualities first and foremost. Now, why don't these type of
men EVER post ads here???????
Butcher
> Harry Nettles <glv...@cris.com> wrote in article
> <320E16...@cris.com>...
> | The same reason that women are turned off by fat men. The solution is to
> | start dieting and exercising.
So what you are saying is that if we have two people one naturally thin,
the other naturally fat, we should tell the fat one that they have to work
harder (diet) to be liked the same amount as the thin person???
Butcher
jen kilmer
Jill <7000...@CompuServe.COM> wrote in article
<4unjou$qd4$2...@mhadf.production.compuserve.com>...
| I have given up on finding a man over the Internet, too.
I never really tried.
| I always love the way the men whine about how women
| don't like "nice guys"
Yeah, well, my definition of "nice guy" is something like
"a mature adult" or "a guy with manners". You know, the
silly little things that Miss Manners advocates: don't gloat;
don't lie; if you break something, you replace it; if you
say you'll do it, do it; RSVP; don't allow others to treat
you as a doormat while not being unmannerly with those
that try; etc.
Now, I would never date someone who didn't fit the above, but
that does not mean I would date any person who has manners;
things like smarts, mutual interests, compatible senses of humor,
compatible values, etc, also are important.
| yet about 75% of the men who post messages are looking for a woman
| with a supermodel body. Now, if you look around in theaters, malls,
| amusement parks, etc..., you will see that only about 5% of the women
| have supermodel bodies. So, we have a situation where 75% of the men
| are scrambling and clawing for 5% of the women and these men wonder why
| they are alone?
Yeah, well, it seems to me that many of my men friends
*say* they are looking for a mate, but their initial criteria
is to find a woman whose bod fits their one-night-stand
fantasy.
| If a man has all the inner qualities I am seeking, I'm
| sure I will find his outer shell to be absolutely gorgeous.
I wouldn't say that; but I have in the past found that if
a person has the non-physical attributes I'm looking
for, then I don't care what they look like. In fact, that's
what happened with the last two guys I dated....
-Jen
--
jen kilmer -=- je...@saranac.microsoft.com -=- iptd testing
The statements in this message are my own personal views and
do not necessarily reflect the official views of Microsoft.
Kenn Barry
In article <01bb8994$8bf86ea0$c6c2b7c7@zany>,
Bradd W. Szonye <bra...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Michael Sullivan <m...@panix.com> wrote in article
><4ur1et$5...@panix2.panix.com>...
>> In article <01bb88bd$d2d21380$29c2b7c7@zany>,
>> Bradd W. Szonye <bra...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> [Brad and his lover both lost weight and got in better condition while
>> they were together.]
>
>> >Perhaps ironically, one of the things she later confessed to hating me
>for
>> >was the pressure to lose weight.
>>
>> Maybe you didn't try all that hard -- sounds like she did.
>
>Could be. What was "odd" about it at the time was the approach I'd tried to
>take. I wasn't trying to pressure her; I wasn't condescending or mean about
>it. I was just trying to be encouraging about something I thought she
>wanted for herself.
Fell for that one, eh? :-) Back when I was married, my wife
once asked me to help her lose weight, as in, telling her she
shouldn't eat this or that. Hey, I didn't care much, she wasn't that
fat, but like a fool, I did as she asked. All it got me,
was her getting pissed off at me. _Never_ believe it when someone
asks for "help" in dieting.
Kayembee
Kenn Barry
In article <4usikn$nd4$1...@mhafc.production.compuserve.com>,
Jill <7000...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>It's great to know there are men out there who are looking
>for inner qualities first and foremost. Now, why don't these type of
>men EVER post ads here???????
Because ads aren't allowed on soc.singles, of course.
Kayembee
Bikerbabe in Black Leather
>most of the men who have posted have stated that attitude and inner
>qualities mean more to them than what is on the outside. Hmmmmm...this is
>very encouraging. We women have been taught from the time we were very
>young that if we are bigger than a Size 6, we are worthless and ugly, etc...
>I have never believed this, but I know a lot of women who do and I find it
>for inner qualities first and foremost. Now, why don't these type of
>men EVER post ads here???????
Because they've been snapped up by the hordes of gorgeous babes who
recognize quality when they see it. No need to post personals.
Steven Brock
exuptr wrote:
>
> Craig Macbride wrote:
>
> > You really want to know my yardstick, so to speak? If I can lift her,
> > she's not too heavy!
>
> heh. what if you can't lift her because you can't catch her? :-D
>
> > ... and, while I'm not that strong, I can lift women who weigh at least
> > 30kg more than me.
>
> i have no problem with 180 lbs but haven't tried anyone heavier.
>
> > Of course, if they are lighter, that can leave more
> > interesting possibilities.
>
> like juggling, or what??
>
> sunbird (exuptr)
>
> ObSigVirus: "some people are kooks and get ignored" - Phillip J Birmingham
have seen her walk down the aisle. Thank you very much.
exuptr
Thomas Sparks wrote:
> Marilyn was more correctly termed "voluptuous" as was the "old" Raquel Welch who is now 56 yoa
> and has taken on a thoroughly modern toned up appearance. BTW I find voluptuous women mighty
> attractive--they don't have to be Marilyn or Raquel.
yeah, besides you'll just end up calling them wendy anyway.
Steven Scuderi
In <32123E...@exu.ericsson.se> exuptr <exu...@exu.ericsson.se>
writes:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jill Lundquist
In article <4usikn$nd4$1...@mhafc.production.compuserve.com>,
Jill <7000...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
> It's great to know there are men out there who are looking
>for inner qualities first and foremost. Now, why don't these type of
>men EVER post ads here???????
Because the smart men know that this isn't the place to post
personal ads. Ads belong on soc.personals, alt.personals,
and various local personals newsgroups.
BTW, it really wouldn't be the tiniest skin off my nose if
you were to use a last name, even a last name that you invented.
--
Jill Lundquist ji...@qualcomm.com DoD #882
When hell freezes over, grab the ice skates.
Bradd W. Szonye
Ray Henry <ant...@rainbow.rmii.com> wrote in article
<4ut12b$f...@rainbow.rmii.com>...
> I know I have fallen for people in the past who were not
> necessarily attractive by "common" standards, yet I found them
> delightfully attractive at the time. (And still do, for the ones I've
> stayed in touch with.)
I know I've fallen for lots of women who were not attractive by any common
standard, yet I personally found them beautiful. In fact, my friends have
occasionally teased me mercilessly for dating an "ugly" woman who I found
attractive.
The worst examples of this are between me and my best friend. We have an
almost mutually exclusive taste in women. With very rare exceptions, we've
never found the same woman attractive. Those few exceptions are also the
only women that we've both dated.
Michael Sullivan
In article <4urj7n$e...@xmission.xmission.com>,
theurgy <trx...@xmission.xmission.com> wrote:
>>Don't forget your collection of 3-D lucite puzzles (drool...)
>They only seem to impress men. Pity.
You forgot about unavailable entomological deities. More's the pity, I
suppose.
another M_______
Bradd W. Szonye
Bikerbabe in Black Leather <ami...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote in article
<4utjd3$d...@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>...
> In article <4usikn$nd4$1...@mhafc.production.compuserve.com>,
> Jill <7000...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
> >Now, why don't these type of
> >men EVER post ads here???????
>
> recognize quality when they see it. No need to post personals.
Yeah, right.
We're not allowed to, that's all.
Actually, good men don't post personals. Too many crazies out there. We
prefer to act like "nice guys" and lull a woman's suspicions until she
likes us. Then we pounce. (It's at times like this I wish I didn't have an
aversion to smileys).
I've been accused of this more than once. I hope it's not true.
theurgy
exuptr <exu...@exu.ericsson.se> writes:
>theurgy wrote:
>> Speak for yourself. I'm shallow all the way to the bone. If some
>> "trivial" property like weight, acne, or a speech impediment renders some
>> unfortunate female unattractive to me, I look elsewhere for some innocent
>> girl to dazzle with my collection of 1960's black-light posters and chew
>> toys.
>what can i say, i won't know until i see hir until i know what the effect will
>be. sometimes i'm shallow and sometimes not. but a beautiful smile and bright
>eyes will almost always get me.
They're certainly among the nicer aspects of h. sapiens. Unfortunately
I'm constructed in such a way that some attributes just turn of the whole
hormonal machinery, and I've learned the hard way that it's pointless to
try to override this veto.
>
>> Wit's nice, but IMO greatly over-rated as a sexual turn-on.
>it certainly works for some. for me, i'd say it helps a great deal. also
>a positive, cheerful attitude is important. someone who just looks like sie
>is having fun.
Absolutely. Creates great friends, scintillating conversations. Makes
someone who turns me on also a potential long-term mate. But it does
nothing for erections, I'm afraid.
>BTW, it was cool meeting you, M.
Enjoyed meeting you and everyone else immensely. Now if I cut just keep
the names and faces straight...
Felicitations,
M.
Bikerbabe in Black Leather
In article <3211FB...@exu.ericsson.se>,
exuptr <exu...@exu.ericsson.se> wrote:
>Bikerbabe in Black Leather wrote:
>
>> A man's bodyfat percentage is not a determining factor for me.
>
>> Funny, I feel the same way :-)
>
>heh. and here i was worrying if i am too skinny.
>
A little more bodyhair than I'm used to perhaps, but I'll deal.
jen kilmer
Jill <7000...@CompuServe.COM> wrote ...
| We women have been taught from the time we were very
| young that if we are bigger than a Size 6, we are worthless
...since a woman's value is solely derived from her ability
to attract the opposite sex...
| I know a lot of women who do and I find it very sad
Women who've bought into this tend to be very into
being pretty -- often it's all they think they are.
| It's great to know there are men out there who are
| looking for inner qualities first and foremost.
Yeah, but again: there are other things in life besides
attracting a mate.
| Now, why don't these type of men EVER post ads here???????
WHAT??? NO ADS IN SOC.SINGLES!!! EVER!!!!
-jen
jen kilmer
Nonomin <non...@aol.com> wrote ...
| I think that most people will agree that fat is unattractive....
| Just ask a heavy person if they like sex with the lights on.
I prefer it, actually.
| So I think that it is not just generally fat women that turn men off..it
| is the fat itself. Men are very visual and generally get aroused by what
| they SEE ...
Has anyone ever told you that there is as much variation
within each sex as there is between the averages of each
sex?
Many men are visual. So are many women. Many men find
fat a turn-on. So do many women. Many people also do not
find fat to be a determining factor. Get over yourself.
| How many men would like for their wives to leave them if
| they became bald or got a pot belly or god forbid couldn't
| sustain an erection?
Doesn't mean it won't happen - just like how many women
get left when they get a pot belly or saggy breasts or lines
on their face.
That Demmed Elusive Pigletnel
beto...@sover.net (Allison Turner), while prying the lemmings from hir ankles, exclaimed:
>In article <4uo9ur$o...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, non...@aol.com (Nonomin) wrote:
>> I also think that if the
>> overweight people who take offense at the comments made in here were
>> honest they would admit to themselves that they look better with their
>> clothes on then in the nude.
>I think you're perpetuating a myth I particularly dislike. Why do you
>assume that someone is unhappy with their weight if they are (to quote
>antryg) "poundage-gifted," and offended by your derogatory comments?
Ayup. I often complain that I look better without my clothes than
with. Poorly fitting clothing is one of the hardest problems fat
people (I hesitate to say "especially women", but I think it might
actually be true, given the relative shapes of male and female bodies,
and the stunning lack of well fitting and well designed clothing for
women, anyway) face. It's particularly difficult to figure out that,
yes, it really is your clothes, not you, that look awful. :-(.
>(I once saw a book of photographs, which I think was called "Goddesses,"
>which was truly stunningly beautiful. Nudes, all definitely gifted with
>poundage. If anyone out there knows what this was actually called and who
>published it, please let me know.)
You might be describing _Women En Large: Images of Fat Nudes_, Laurie
Toby Edison and Debbie Notkin. Fabulous book. Check out the website,
at http://www.igc.apc.org/BooksinFocus/. You might also be interested
in the review in Fat Girl, "the zine for fat dykes and the women who
want them", at http://www.fatso.com/fatgirl/en_large.html. Fabulous
book. Did I say that already?
--
____
Piglet \bi/
pig...@panix.com \/ Please don't feed or tease the kooks.
Trish Roberts
In article <4uoled$2...@xmission.xmission.com>,
theurgy <trx...@xmission.xmission.com> wrote:
>Wit's nice, but IMO greatly over-rated as a sexual turn-on.
Ah, is that your problem?
Seriously, what would it mean to over-rate a sexual turn-on?
(Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.)
--
Trish Roberts [http://www.missouri.edu/~engpat]
eng...@showme.missouri.edu [standard disclaimer applies]
"This August evening I've been driving/ over backroads fringed with queen
anne's lace/ my car startling young deer in meadows" (A. Rich)
MedMan
On Mon, 12 Aug 1996 15:47:44 -0400, David O'Bedlam
<thed...@clark.net> wrote:
>On 3 Aug 1996 bit...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
>> IMHO most fat people are comfortable with their appearance, or at least
>> they are not willing to make the changes required to lower their weight.
>
>Well, there ya got me. In order to lower my weight from it's current
>planet-busting 135# I'd hafta do situps till I keeled over, eat only
>ONE small meal a day and -- the hard part -- get up from my computer
>chair for anything besides peeing, sleeping and getting more coffee.
>
>So are there any women on soc.singles who dig guys who can pinch one
>inch? Or does that doom me to be a forever single identityless blob?
>
>Opinions, please!
>
>
>Geekily,
>David
>
David,
You probably didn't intend for the above post to be so humorous, but I
found it to be so. :-) Just wanted you to know that it brought a
smile to my face and I can relate.
Andy
"Beam me up! _______----_______
There's no intelligent ___---~~~~~.. ... .... ... ..~~~~~---___
life on this planet." ==============================================
________________________- .. .. _--~~~~~-------____-------~~~~~
(____________________][__)____ -
/ /____---~~~.. .. ..~~-_~
<_____________________________- Andy Medlin
~~~~~~----__ _- ame...@n-link.com
~~~~~~~~~~~