Fat and healthy? Bzzzzzzt. Sorry.
miguel
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/health/255162_obese11.html
High blood pressure and cholesterol are strong risk factors for heart
disease. Both are common in people who are too fat, and often are
thought to explain why overweight people are more prone to heart disease.
But there is a growing body of science suggesting that excess weight
alone is an independent risk factor for heart attacks, strokes and diabetes.
The new study fits with that evolving school of thought and contrasts
with a controversial government study published last year that suggested
excess weight might not be as deadly as previously thought.
"The take-home message would be pay more attention to your weight even
if you don't have an unhealthy risk factor profile yet," said lead
author Lijing Yan, a researcher at Northwestern and Peking University.
The study appears in today's Journal of the American Medical Association.
. . .
Fat tissue "is not like an inert storage depot -- it's a very dynamic
organ that is actually producing hormones and chemical messengers," said
Dr. JoAnn Manson, chief of preventive medicine at Harvard's Brigham and
Women's Hospital. These substances can damage blood vessels, increase
the risk of blood clots and cause insulin resistance that makes people
prone to diabetes -- all without elevating blood pressure or
cholesterol, said Manson, who was not involved in the Northwestern study.
Still, there is a common misconception that excess weight is nothing to
worry about until high blood pressure and poor cholesterol develop, and
those can then be treated with medications, Manson said.
"Patients say that all the time, and many doctors actually will say that
to patients" too, she said.
The study "will help define obesity as a disease" in itself, said Dr.
Samuel Klein, an obesity expert at Washington University in St. Louis.
Dr. David Katz, an obesity researcher and director of Yale University's
Prevention Research Center, said the findings help prove obesity is a
real public health crisis.
"People who say obesity has been hyped are wrong," Katz said.
Gandalf Parker
news:E6qdnVrvFan...@comcast.com:
> But there is a growing body of science suggesting that excess weight
> alone is an independent risk factor for heart attacks, strokes and
> diabetes.
BZZZTTT you didnt read very carefully.
Plus its already been posted and made fun of.
Gandalf Parker
miguel
> Gandalf Parker
Why did you make fun of it?
miguel
Gandalf Parker
>>>But there is a growing body of science suggesting that excess weight
>>>alone is an independent risk factor for heart attacks, strokes and
>>>diabetes.
>
>> BZZZTTT you didnt read very carefully.
>> Plus its already been posted and made fun of.
>
> Why did you make fun of it?
The study is fine and useful. But like most studies people try to read
absolutes into it that the people doing the study didnt say.
Out of 1600 people, and sometime after age 65 they had 31 of them die of
heart disease that also happened to have normal blood pressure and
chloresterol. Wow, thats definetly news to change your life huh?
Of course your post had a different problem. A GROWING body SUGGESTING
that excess weight is a risk FACTOR for heart attacks. That is not the
smae as saying that fat and healthy is a lie. In fact, the people are
saying that the people in the study are healthy, but that there ight be a
reason to lose the weight anyway.
It still doesnt support extreme lifestyle changes for any reasonable
result. Most of these talk about living more than 70 years. Unless a
person wants to lose weight, adding stress in order to try and live from
70 to 75 is.. well.. something for people to decide if they want. :)
Gandalf Parker
Robin King
news:E6qdnVrvFan...@comcast.com...
| Bad news, blobbi and Stwebe.
What, no mention of me?
| High blood pressure and cholesterol are strong risk factors for
heart
| disease. Both are common in people who are too fat, and often are
| thought to explain why overweight people are more prone to heart
disease.
|
| But there is a growing body of science suggesting that excess weight
| alone is an independent risk factor for heart attacks, strokes and
diabetes.
Being a target of prejudice also results in a heightening
of risk factors. You can't lose weight for someone else, but
you can combat prejudice and second-class treatment.
| "People who say obesity has been hyped are wrong," Katz said.
That's why our lifespans are increasing and heart disease is
down as we get fatter. Sure.
Robin
miguel
Are you suggesting that the study published yesterday in JAMA, a 30 year
longitudinal study based upon 1600 subjects, is invalid?
miguel
Gandalf Parker
>> | "People who say obesity has been hyped are wrong," Katz said.
>>
>> That's why our lifespans are increasing and heart disease is
>> down as we get fatter. Sure.
>
> Are you suggesting that the study published yesterday in JAMA, a 30 year
> longitudinal study based upon 1600 subjects, is invalid?
The study was fine. Have you read it? Or are you just saying that the
medias specific wording to play off of the one study is scientific fact?
If you are going to enact a major life-style change for numbers like those
then you would quickly become quite an interesting study yourself. :)
Gandalf Parker
Gandalf Parker
wisdom to news:1137075361.374013.55360
@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Yeah, I'm sure she was fat and healthy!
What does that have to do with it?
Try reading before posting.
<netcopped>
Gandalf Parker
miguel
> miguel :
> >> | "People who say obesity has been hyped are wrong," Katz said.
> >> That's why our lifespans are increasing and heart disease is
> >> down as we get fatter. Sure.
> > Are you suggesting that the study published yesterday in JAMA, a 30 year
> > longitudinal study based upon 1600 subjects, is invalid?
> The study was fine. Have you read it? Or are you just saying that the
> medias specific wording to play off of the one study is scientific fact?
> If you are going to enact a major life-style change for numbers like those
> then you would quickly become quite an interesting study yourself. :)
If I recall correctly, the biostatisticians calculated that the risk
factor of obesity increased the likelihood of heart disease by 40%. If
that isn't a substantial enough risk factor to modify one's behavior,
for you, what would be?
miguel
the Danimal
> miguel <mjc...@gmail.com> contributed wisdom to
> news:RvOdnbSwMd0TI1je...@comcast.com:
>
> >> | "People who say obesity has been hyped are wrong," Katz said.
> >>
> >> That's why our lifespans are increasing and heart disease is
> >> down as we get fatter. Sure.
The recent increase in obesity means we have a lot of fat people
who haven't been fat very long yet. Perhaps not long enough to
develop the distribution of chronic diseases by which they will
drag down the overall life expectancy.
The increase in mortality should lag an increase in obesity by several
decades.
It's similar to what would happen if everybody started smoking
cigarettes
today. In the first few years there would be little impact on death
rates.
Death rates would slowly increase for a few decades, and level off
somewhere
once the whole population consisted of people who had smoked their
whole adult lives. Then there would be enough people who had smoked
long enough to be dying prematurely from smoking-induced diseases
for the impact to show up in the overall life expectancy.
Public health authorities face the same problem when they try to
confront any sort of chronic health risk. It's hard to get average
stupid people to feel concerned about something that may harm their
health in 20 or 30 years, when they feel healthy now.
The fact that lifespans as a whole have increased slightly over the
past
two decades does not mean things like AIDS, obesity, smoking, and
drunk driving are not major killers. When people have specific,
identifiable
health risks, the overall death rate for the whole population is
irrelevant.
It's like saying the average depth of a river is 3 feet, so you try to
wade across and you drown. Who cares what the average is when
you are in a deep spot?
> > Are you suggesting that the study published yesterday in JAMA, a 30 year
> > longitudinal study based upon 1600 subjects, is invalid?
>
> The study was fine. Have you read it? Or are you just saying that the
> medias specific wording to play off of the one study is scientific fact?
Reporters make mistakes from time to time, but when they do, they
create opportunities for other reporters to expose their mistakes.
If you think reporters have misinterpreted this study, you can show
exactly where they erred and make a name for yourself.
> If you are going to enact a major life-style change for numbers like those
> then you would quickly become quite an interesting study yourself. :)
Your grin can remain safely hypothetical because common
sense alone is more than enough reason for obese gluttons to consider
eating less. Nobody needs a study to figure out that being a fat slob
sucks.
Who really wants to be obese? Even if obesity extended life rather
than shortening it, who would want that deal?
"Major lifestyle change"---are you brave enough to face the
simple truth without trying to hide behind silly euphemisms? Nobody
who sees an obese person is fooled for a second by your purposely
vague labeling. When we see an obese person, we are not seeing
a "major lifestyle," but instead a person who chronically overeats.
Fat people are fat because they eat too much. They can lose weight
by eating less.
More to the point, when you tell fat bashers to shut up and
pretend they admire obesity, you are demanding that they
too make a "major lifestyle change."
Does the fact that a change in behavior is "major" have
anything to do with anything? No. When you see someone else
behaving in a way you don't like, you tell him to change. The
fact that his behavior constitutes his "lifestyle" in no way
exempts it from your attempt to meddle.
-- the Danimal
the Danimal
> If I recall correctly, the biostatisticians calculated that the risk
> factor of obesity increased the likelihood of heart disease by 40%. If
> that isn't a substantial enough risk factor to modify one's behavior,
> for you, what would be?
The problem with probabilistic risk factors like that is there's no way
to know in advance whether you are one of the people in the 40%
group which will fall victim to the risk factor, or in the 60% group
which doesn't. By the time you would know, it's too late.
To refine a risk estimate for an individual, medical science needs
more knowledge of the mechanisms by which each risk factor
interacts with the individual's genes and other environmental factors.
To some extent, family health history can offer some crude clues
today. Someone whose relatives have all been obese their whole
lives, and yet all their older relatives lived to ripe old ages might
be at lower risk of health problems from obesity than someone
with many obese relatives who died prematurely from
diseases which appear related to obesity. But because of
random allele recombinations within a family, family members
do not all necessarily share the same genetic predispositions.
In any case, long-term health is probably one of the weaker
motivations to maintain a healthy weight. Obesity does much
more immediate damage to a person's psychological and
social status, along with general mobility.
You can see this by noting the sorts of things fat people whine
about. Are they lobbying for the Federal government to allocate
more research dollars to find cures for obesity-related
diseases? Or do they instead allocate their efforts toward
futile attempts to increase their social status (i.e., compel
others to admire them)?
My impression is that fat people, especially fat women, expend
more energy declaring themselves beautiful than they expend
on demanding better medicine for their future chronic ills.
Being obese makes a person's life inherently worse right now,
and causes others to treat him or her worse right now. A
person who can disregard that sort of immediate and vigorous
social feedback is unlikely to be swayed by some abstract
probabilistic risk of some health problem which might develop
in 20 years.
A fat person can look in a mirror. What scientific study can be
more persuasive than that?
-- the Danimal
With The Violets
> That's why our lifespans are increasing and heart disease is
> down as we get fatter. Sure.
>
> Robin
Heart disease isn't "down as we get fatter". The death rate from
cardiovascular disease has been going down over the last decade, but that is
probably due mostly to the fact that treatment for both acute and chronic
disease continues to improve significantly. The yearly incidence of
cardiovascular disease is a lot harder to measure, but it is probably either
remaining the same or increasing somewhat. The increase would almost
certainly be a lot greater if not for the fact that the treatment of risk
factors such as hyperlipidemia and hypertension has become both much more
aggressive and much more effective in recent years.
Life expectancy does continue to increase, but to argue that this implies
obesity does not increase the risk of heart disease is like claiming that
the fact life expectancy continued to increase during the 1980s when AIDS
was spreading exponentially implies that HIV infection isn't a serious
disease.
Gandalf Parker
>> The study was fine. Have you read it? Or are you just saying that the
>> medias specific wording to play off of the one study is scientific
>> fact?
>
>> If you are going to enact a major life-style change for numbers like
>> those then you would quickly become quite an interesting study
>> yourself. :)
>
> If I recall correctly, the biostatisticians calculated that the risk
> factor of obesity increased the likelihood of heart disease by 40%.
> If that isn't a substantial enough risk factor to modify one's
> behavior, for you, what would be?
Ahhh.. gonna jump off of that one huh.
OK lets talk about this new study you are mentioning.
First off, you are shifting to obesity which is very tactical. I dont
think that too many people are trying to defend anything like medically
diagnosed morbid obesity. :) Hell at that point you are just talking
about overworking the heart much more than dieting would.
Also, since we started out discussing the difference between the words of
the study, vs the words chosen by media, and the words of common people
reading things into it... where is the study you are talking about now?
Gandalf Parker
miguel
Why are you avoiding the question?
miguel
Gandalf Parker
>> Also, since we started out discussing the difference between the
>> words of the study, vs the words chosen by media, and the words of
>> common people reading things into it... where is the study you are
>> talking about now?
>
> Why are you avoiding the question?
Im avoiding it? You are the one popping up numbers. Where is this study so
I can read the whole wording.
But even then... Obesity=40% increased risk?
At what age is this? At what exercise level? What are they recommending as
a change? If its another "give up everything you like for the rest of your
life and you can live bedridden from 70 to 75" then personally I would have
to say that I wouldnt be much swayed. I wouldnt want to work toward a
Matrix existence (well, at least not unless they actually perfect jacking
in) :)
Gandalf Parker
miguel
> miguel <mjc...@gmail.com> contributed wisdom to
> news:1ZWdnYmuIua...@comcast.com:
>>>Also, since we started out discussing the difference between the
>>>words of the study, vs the words chosen by media, and the words of
>>>common people reading things into it... where is the study you are
>>>talking about now?
>>Why are you avoiding the question?
> Im avoiding it? You are the one popping up numbers. Where is this study so
> I can read the whole wording.
You don't need to read the study to answer the question.
But, I guess you believe you are smart enough to criticize and make fun
of the study, as you have, without even reading it? That's kinda weird.
I don't know what your credentials are, but the authors of the 30 year
study seem to be really well credentialed and smart.
> But even then... Obesity=40% increased risk?
> At what age is this? At what exercise level? What are they recommending as
> a change? If its another "give up everything you like for the rest of your
> life and you can live bedridden from 70 to 75" then personally I would have
> to say that I wouldnt be much swayed. I wouldnt want to work toward a
> Matrix existence (well, at least not unless they actually perfect jacking
> in) :)
Obviously your gluttony is more important to you than anything else. I
don't care about that. You're entitled to value whatever you want. But
that's your personal choice, and it has nothing to do with the fact that
the authors of this study conclude that obesity, standing alone, is a
significant risk factor for coronary heart disease, heart attacks,
diabetes, etc. Fat acceptors have denied this for a long time, and the
science now irrefutably contradicts them.
miguel
rdu...@pdq.net
At the end of the day, adults are going to decide how much to
emphasize physical fitness in their lives versus the joys of the dinner
table.
It is mistaken however, to put the trade off simply in terms of
years of life gained or lost. Far more than simple longevity, obesity
wrecks a persons general mobility as they age. Again, if sitting at the
table and eating or sitting on a couch and watching TV is a persons
idea of happiness, there are no arguments to get them out to the gym.
The thing is, there are such powerful and nearly inescapeable
positive feed-back loops operating here that a person might decide to
change course and then find that their ability to choose fitness has
permanently lapsed.
IOWs : Belly fat and weak abs stress the spine causing disc problems
which discourage proper exercise. Likewise with lower extremity joints
that wear out much quicker when carrying more weight and thereby
discourage even walking. Needing insulin to control blood sugar seems
to derange normal hunger signals. Food is an addictive substance for
many obese folks and addictions tend to become worse the longer they
are indulged. This list can go on nearly forever...
The point is, a person needs to think carefully before "accepting
being fat" because in many cases it turns out to be an irreversible
step down "the path of no return".
Gandalf Parker
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Very good post. Everything you said I have no problem agreeing with.
Gandalf Parker
> Gandalf Parker wrote:
>> miguel <mjc...@gmail.com> contributed wisdom to
>> news:1ZWdnYmuIua...@comcast.com:
>
> But, I guess you believe you are smart enough to criticize and make
> fun of the study, as you have, without even reading it? That's kinda
> weird. I don't know what your credentials are, but the authors of the
> 30 year study seem to be really well credentialed and smart.
Then its worth reading. Im not making fun of the study. Im making fun of
what you are saying about it. Im guessing that you dont have these
credentials you are talking about?
>> But even then... Obesity=40% increased risk?
>> At what age is this? At what exercise level? What are they
>> recommending as a change? If its another "give up everything you like
>> for the rest of your life and you can live bedridden from 70 to 75"
>> then personally I would have to say that I wouldnt be much swayed. I
>> wouldnt want to work toward a Matrix existence (well, at least not
>> unless they actually perfect jacking in) :)
>
> Obviously your gluttony is more important to you than anything else.
HAHAHAHA when someone is trained in porpoganda you are comedy. You bait
and then you switch your words. Where did gluttony come up?
> But that's your personal choice, and it has nothing to do with the
> fact that the authors of this study conclude that obesity, standing
> alone, is a significant risk factor for coronary heart disease, heart
> attacks, diabetes, etc. Fat acceptors have denied this for a long
> time, and the science now irrefutably contradicts them.
Now you again show the problem you have with these conversations. Are we
back to the initial study again? That one I read. Did you? Where did the
word "conclude" come in? Or the word "significant"? Not to mention
"irrefutably". :) I think that the people doing that study would cringe
at your use of it. Did you see those numbers? 1600 people over the age of
65 died of heart problems, and 31 of them were fat and healthy. Wow,
irrefutable significant factor there. LOL
Gandalf Parker
Lady Veteran
Hash: SHA1
Gandolf-do you know this idiot is a lawyer practicing out of Seattle
Washington? This shyster failed logic 101 and has been told several
times by me and others he should get his money back for his law
degree-or use it for toilet paper.
LV
- ------------------------------------------------------
I am anti-idiot, anti nazi and anti communist.
Frankly, I see no difference between the three.
- -------------------------------------------------
I rode a tank and held a General's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank
- - - - Rolling Stones - Sympathy for the Devil
- ----------------------------------------
Be who you are and say what you feel, because
those who mind don't matter and those who matter
don't mind.
- --Dr. Seuss
- ----------------------------------------
You are your greatest obstacle.
- - unknown
- ----------------------------------------
Time heals all wounds and wounds all heels.
- - unknown
_________________________________________
It is really too bad that stupidity isn't painful.
- - unknown
- ---------------------------------------------
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Gandalf Parker
news:180hs1dndtkt73bmk...@4ax.com:
> Gandolf-do you know this idiot is a lawyer practicing out of Seattle
> Washington? This shyster failed logic 101 and has been told several
> times by me and others he should get his money back for his law
> degree-or use it for toilet paper.
Ahhh in that case maybe I should be saying something like "I object, calls
for a conclusion from the witness" :)
Gandalf Parker
the Danimal
> miguel <mjc...@gmail.com> contributed wisdom to
> news:W76dncG9duw...@comcast.com:
>
> > Gandalf Parker wrote:
> >> miguel <mjc...@gmail.com> contributed wisdom to
> >> news:1ZWdnYmuIua...@comcast.com:
> >
> > But, I guess you believe you are smart enough to criticize and make
> > fun of the study, as you have, without even reading it? That's kinda
> > weird. I don't know what your credentials are, but the authors of the
> > 30 year study seem to be really well credentialed and smart.
>
> Then its worth reading. Im not making fun of the study. Im making fun of
> what you are saying about it. Im guessing that you dont have these
> credentials you are talking about?
Miguel's credentials would only matter if he were trying to
invalidate the study.
It's similar to claims about the shape of the Earth. If you
claim the Earth is spheroidal, nobody cares about your
credentials; if you claim the Earth is flat, then someone
might want to know what sort of training you had.
You don't need any credentials to merely repeat some
expert opinion. The only issue is whether you repeated
it accurately.
> >> But even then... Obesity=40% increased risk?
> >> At what age is this? At what exercise level? What are they
> >> recommending as a change? If its another "give up everything you like
> >> for the rest of your life and you can live bedridden from 70 to 75"
It's possible to change what you like, to some extent.
For example, most people who are out of shape find it
highly uncomfortable to exercise when they try to start.
A person who sticks it out for the first several months, or
however long it takes that person to get in better shape,
will often find exercise becoming more enjoyable. I can
get on my bicycle and enjoy a 100 mile ride now, but
when I first started, I wasn't in good enough shape to do
that. If I could have completed 100 miles, at least the
last 50 would have felt like a death march.
No one is telling gluttons to stop eating altogether. You can
still enjoy food. Just enjoy less of it. Look at it this way, if
you live longer, you'll get to enjoy eating longer.
Food is like sex, in that the less you get, the more you enjoy
what you do get.
Furthermore, gluttons are substance abusers, and with
substance abusers it's not strictly about pleasure, but about
compulsion. Drug addicts, compulsive gamblers, etc., enjoy
what they do initially, but at some point they find themselves
indulging in their vice beyond the point of pleasure, yet they
cannot stop.
Usenet compulsion works the same way. The first hour or
two of a posting binge can feel pretty good, but a person
who spends all day posting compulsively would probably
feel better if he could break away from the computer and go
do something else.
The question for gluttons, then: do you ever find yourself
eating beyond the point where you are really able to savor and
enjoy every bite? If so, then your eating has become compulsive
and isn't even maximizing your immediate pleasure. There are other
things you could be doing that you would enjoy more. Gluttony
has become a habit rather than something you do for fun.
> >> then personally I would have to say that I wouldnt be much swayed. I
> >> wouldnt want to work toward a Matrix existence (well, at least not
> >> unless they actually perfect jacking in) :)
> >
> > Obviously your gluttony is more important to you than anything else.
>
> HAHAHAHA when someone is trained in porpoganda you are comedy. You bait
> and then you switch your words. Where did gluttony come up?
Gluttony is the cause of obesity. If the study finds obesity to
be a chronic health risk, then the obvious recommendation is
for gluttons to eat less.
This isn't nearly as difficult as you are struggling to make it.
You might fool a human with some rhetoric, but you don't
fool reality.
> > But that's your personal choice, and it has nothing to do with the
> > fact that the authors of this study conclude that obesity, standing
> > alone, is a significant risk factor for coronary heart disease, heart
> > attacks, diabetes, etc.
"Etc." includes breast cancer, a fact surprisingly little-known
among women despite the barrage of breast-cancer awareness
campaigns they have been subjected to.
> > Fat acceptors have denied this for a long
> > time, and the science now irrefutably contradicts them.
>
> Now you again show the problem you have with these conversations. Are we
> back to the initial study again? That one I read. Did you? Where did the
> word "conclude" come in? Or the word "significant"? Not to mention
> "irrefutably". :) I think that the people doing that study would cringe
> at your use of it. Did you see those numbers? 1600 people over the age of
> 65 died of heart problems, and 31 of them were fat and healthy. Wow,
> irrefutable significant factor there. LOL
A man who briefly held the title of World's Oldest Man mentioned
in an interview that if he had known he was going to live so long,
he wouldn't have smoked, drank, and run around so much, because
(in his words) "I'm really paying for it now."
The fact that smoking two packs a day until age 90 didn't stop him
from living to be well over 100 doesn't negate the fact that for most
people smoking is a bad idea.
There are always exceptions to every rule. That's one reason why
entertainers are often such poor role models. Often they lived their
lives by a formula that doesn't work for the average person (goof off
in school, move to L.A., wait on tables, hope to get discovered).
Most people who try the same thing will make a mess of themselves
and eventually return home as failures.
Obviously it would be helpful to have personalized risk profile
assessments that account for each individual's genes and so
on. But even if people knew their risks, many would still do
the wrong thing. This is apparent when you see throat cancer
victims who continue to smoke cigarettes.
-- the Danimal
Lady Veteran
Hash: SHA1
LOL!!! How about saying that it is prima facie evidence that counsel
is non campos mentis?
(excuse the Latin mis-spellings, but I think you get the idea :-)
LV
- ------------------------------------------------------
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gemi...@sbcglobal.net
"fat acceptor" and a person who is accepting of any other addiction or
deadly habit (HINT- they call it "morbid" obesity because obesity above
a certain level is medically considered a constant threat to life that
is uncontrolled). Perhaps fat acceptors would understand how ridiculous
it is to act as if the compulsion to eat to excess is any different
than any other type of addiction if put in those terms.
To that end, I will take your post and substitute alcoholism for food
addiction.
At the end of the day, adults are going to decide how much to
> emphasize physical fitness in their lives versus the joys of getting inebriated.
> It is mistaken however, to put the trade off simply in terms of
> years of life gained or lost. Far more than simple longevity, alcoholism
> wrecks a persons general health and performance as they age. Again, if sitting at the
> table getting drunk or sitting on a couch and watching TV while boozing it up is a persons
> idea of happiness, there are no arguments to get them out to the gym or to quit drinking.
> The thing is, there are such powerful and nearly inescapeable
> positive feed-back loops operating here that a person might decide to
> change course and then find that their ability to choose fitness has
> permanently lapsed. And the health derangements may be already permanent.
>
> Alcohol is an addictive substance for
> many folks and addictions tend to become worse the longer they
> are indulged. This list can go on nearly forever...
> The point is, a person needs to think carefully before "accepting
> being an alcoholic" because in many cases it turns out to be an irreversible
> step down "the path of no return".
Recovering Narcissist
futile attempts to increase their social status (i.e., compel
others to admire them)?"
I don't think fat women (or men) want to be admired. It's a matter of
respect, tolerance and above all, ending discrimination. If someone
doesn't agree that all people deserve this, well, they are morally
bankrupt or ignorant.
Hunter
> I don't think fat women (or men) want to be admired. It's a matter of
> respect, tolerance and above all, ending discrimination. If someone
> doesn't agree that all people deserve this, well, they are morally
> bankrupt or ignorant.
Do David Westerfield and Joseph P Smith deserve respect and tolerance?
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/01/03/westerfield.sentencing/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/01/smith.sentenced/index.html
Recovering Narcissist
Hitler didn't derserve respect. I'm talking about average overweight
individuals, just like the rest of the posters in this thread.
LOL. So I checked out your first link. What exactly is your point? I
would first use the word "murderer" to describe David Westerfield, not
"fat." But thanks for that, I wondered what ever happened to that
slimebag.
Hunter
You stated, " If someone doesn't agree that all people deserve this,
well, they are morally bankrupt or ignorant." That includes people who
rape and murder children.
I'll ask again. Do David Westerfield and Joseph P Smith deserve
respect and tolerance?
Lady Veteran
Hash: SHA1
On 15 Jan 2006 09:30:59 -0800, wrote:
>This is an excellent post. The thing is, I see no difference between
>a "fat acceptor" and a person who is accepting of any other
>addiction or deadly habit (HINT- they call it "morbid" obesity
>because obesity above a certain level is medically considered a
>constant threat to life that is uncontrolled). Perhaps fat acceptors
>would understand how ridiculous it is to act as if the compulsion to
>eat to excess is any different
>than any other type of addiction if put in those terms.
>
>To that end, I will take your post and substitute alcoholism for
>food addiction.
There are some people who are addicted to food. There are also
enablers who feed these people to excess after they lose their
mobility.
Fat acceptance does not include people who are obese to that point.
Why? Because people are helping these folks eat large amounts of food
and resulting in weight gain to morbidity.
It does include the ideas, however that people who are overweight
deserve to employed, heve decent clothes to wear and go about their
lives without idiots casting doubts as to whether they are WORTH
anything.
Idiot are unwilling to see the difference between these two things
and that is why I call them on it.
I am not a fat acceptor. I am a self-acceptor. If one wants to be
overweight that is their business and idiots do not have a right to
make them miserable.
LV
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Lady Veteran
Hash: SHA1
I agree. Fat people don't wake up in the morning saying that they are
going to be adored. They just go about their business like everyone
else and food is NOT at the center of their existence unless there is
an addiction. That is RARE by the way.
LV
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Recovering Narcissist
you didn't. I'm not going to defend a statement that doesn't have to
be. Have a nice day.
Robin King
news:1137346259.6...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| This is an excellent post. The thing is, I see no difference between
a
| "fat acceptor" and a person who is accepting of any other addiction
or
| deadly habit (HINT- they call it "morbid" obesity because obesity
above
| a certain level is medically considered a constant threat to life
that
| is uncontrolled). Perhaps fat acceptors would understand how
ridiculous
| it is to act as if the compulsion to eat to excess is any different
| than any other type of addiction if put in those terms.
Perhaps you would understand fat acceptance better if you
knew how ridiculous it is to equate food addiction with fatness in
most cases.
| To that end, I will take your post and substitute alcoholism for
food
| addiction.
Then you should be posting to the compulsive eating newsgroup.
Hint: This isn't it.
| At the end of the day, adults are going to decide how much to
| > emphasize physical fitness in their lives versus the joys of
getting inebriated.
Are you saying that people who work out at the gym are
never alcoholics? That is hard to believe.
Robin
Hunter
I haven't asked you to defend your statement. I asked you a question.
Again:
Lady Veteran
Hash: SHA1
Could you leave a little of the post you are responding to so the
rest of us can join the discussion?
thanks
LV
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Steve Chaney, still taunting the happy fun ball
In <Xns97489D76FAC...@199.245.68.61>, Gandalf Parker
<gan...@the.dead.ISP.of.Community.net> wrote:
>miguel <mjc...@gmail.com> contributed wisdom to
>news:E6qdnVrvFan...@comcast.com:
>
>> But there is a growing body of science suggesting that excess weight
>> alone is an independent risk factor for heart attacks, strokes and
>> diabetes.
>
>BZZZTTT you didnt read very carefully.
>Plus its already been posted and made fun of.
>
>Gandalf Parker
-- Steve
漱滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕內
Steve Chaney
gunh...@NRsmykicktoy.pacbell.net
Remove "NRismykicktoy" to get my real email address
"it must shock you that i respect jackie." - John Seiler
See the soc.singles HALL OF STUPID: http://member.newsguy.com/~gunhed/hallofstupid
"Too late he understood that when you mate with a black
widow spider, you're on the menu tonight."
- Crash Street Kidd, re: Jackie, Message-ID: <bjr8f...@drn.newsguy.com>
By forging me NR admits he is my puppet
"Your personal information will continue to be propagated
until someone puts an end to your miserable life.
The worst is yet to come. Trust me." - Mike Cranston,
Message-ID: <7JWLHIE33822...@anonymous.poster>
ATTENTION, Tammy Chaney! The man who posted your home
address and phone number online is known as Michael J
Cranston. He has admitted to encouraging people to call
and harass you in this post: <m3qkh0to8e86jvhb7...@4ax.com>
He can be reached at
Mike Cranston
6529 21st Avenue NW
Seattle WA 98117
(206) 783-5965
He has a Washington State Bar ID: 16122
You can look him up online at: http://pro.wsba.org/PublicView-Member.asp?Usr_ID=760292
Mike Cranston is guilty of at least three federal offenses so
far, and should immediately be reported to the FBI for interstate
phone harassment, death threats, and encouraging people to harass
you and/or your family.
Here's how to contact the appropriate law enforcement agencies
to seek justice:
http://www.fbi.gov/contactus.htm
http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/contactus
http://www.sacpd.org/susp_rpt.html
Steve Chaney, still taunting the happy fun ball
<arm...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>On 14 Jan 2006 15:27:13 GMT, wrote:
>
>>Lady Veteran <arm...@bigfoot.com> contributed wisdom to
>>news:180hs1dndtkt73bmk...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> Gandolf-do you know this idiot is a lawyer practicing out of
>>> Seattle Washington? This shyster failed logic 101 and has been
>>> told several times by me and others he should get his money back
>>> for his law
>>> degree-or use it for toilet paper.
>>
>>Ahhh in that case maybe I should be saying something like "I object,
>>calls for a conclusion from the witness" :)
>>
>>Gandalf Parker
>
>
>LOL!!! How about saying that it is prima facie evidence that counsel
>is non campos mentis?
>
>(excuse the Latin mis-spellings, but I think you get the idea :-)
LV, don't go there, Midget man has a hard time following us in English.
You'll make his head pop and then what will you say for yourself if his
kids walk in and slip in it?
-- Steve, cruel, cruel I tell you
Steve Chaney, still taunting the happy fun ball
<dmo...@mfm.com> wrote:
Or dateless and desperate men who cling to their fantasies about sex bots?
-- Steve, for the uninitiated, that means Danimal
miguel
> Lady Veteran wrote:
Get your attributes correct, boar lover.
>>On 14 Jan 2006 15:27:13 GMT, wrote:
>>>Lady Veteran:
>>>>Gandolf-do you know this idiot is a lawyer practicing out of
>>>>Seattle Washington? This shyster failed logic 101 and has been
>>>>told several times by me and others he should get his money back
>>>>for his law
>>>>degree-or use it for toilet paper.
>>>Ahhh in that case maybe I should be saying something like "I object,
>>>calls for a conclusion from the witness" :)
>>LOL!!! How about saying that it is prima facie evidence that counsel
>>is non campos mentis?
>>(excuse the Latin mis-spellings, but I think you get the idea :-)
> LV, don't go there, Midget man has a hard time following us in English.
> You'll make his head pop and then what will you say for yourself if his
> kids walk in and slip in it?
Did I ever tell you of Cheezits McKeeve
Who had 23 sons and she named them all Steve?
Well, she did. And that wasn't a smart thing to do.
You see, when she wants one and calls out, "Yoo-Hoo!
Come into the house, Steve!" she doesn't get one.
All twenty-three Steves of hers come on the run!
This makes things quite difficult at the McKeeves'
As you can imagine, with so many Steves.
And often she wishes that, when they were hatching,
She had named one of them Fatfuck Crack Scratching.
And one of them LAXboy. And one of them Loser.
And one of them Phoney. And one Retard Schmoozer.
And one of them Monkey. And one Skin Donation.
And one of them Sockboy. And one Breast Inflation.
Another one Fat Butt. Another one Mullet.
Another one Phoneyfuck Pelicangullet.
And one of them Pigboy. And one Mastahplan.
One Gaping Maw. And one Calloused Right Hand.
And one of them Sleazy. And one Know It All.
And one William B. Williams. And one Where's My Balls?
And one of them I Make 6 Figures Per Year.
And one of them I Will Buy Dutton A Beer.
And one of them Brad Pitt Sux Give Me A Date...
But she didn't do it. And now it's too late.
miguel
ps alt.bonehead.steve-chaney is alive and well!
miguel
for being short
Steve Chaney, still taunting the happy fun ball wrote:
> HTH
That makes no sense. Why would I have fat people if I had been beaten up
for being short? Your brain's miswired, I think, and you have no
business trying to homeschool your daughter.
You have no grasp of cause and effect. Let's try a couple of examples
and maybe you'll figure it out.
Which of the examples below states a plausible cause/effect relationship?
A. Steve Chaney failed to maintain a "C" average and was politely asked
to leave college because he is fat, stupid and lazy.
B. Steve Chaney is a fat pig because he eats too much and doesn't get
enough exercise.
C. Steve Chaney didn't lose his virginity until he was 28 because he was
desperately afraid of wimmins.
D. While weighing 300 pounds, Steve Chaney sent a picture of himself
wearing a silver thong bikin to Toni Anaya because he wanted her to send
him pictures of her doing naughty things.
E. Steve Chaney's dad died of a heart attack while taking a crap on the
toilet because God doesn't like Steve Chaney.
F. Steve Chaney's mom wished she'd aborted him because she knew
intuitively he'd grow up to be a ragingly insane loser.
G. Steve Chaney threatened Toni Anaya with a shotgun because he's a
ragingly insane loser.
H. Steve Chaney poisoned a puppy because he's a ragingly insane loser.
I. Steve Chaney aligned himself with such loser enterprises as
clandenial and self-acceptance.org because he's a ragingly insane loser.
J. Steve Chaney, Lady Veteran and Jeannette Runyon all share operation
of the choadbot because they are ragingly insane losers.
K. Steve Chaney backed out of meeting Jeem at LAX because he's a coward.
L. Steve Chaney backed out of meeting Jackie at Jeem's because he's a
coward.
M. Steve Chaney won't reveal his address because he's a coward.
N. Steve Chaney runs a fat-acceptance website but makes fun of people
for being fat because he's too stupid to understand the contradiction.
I'll save some more letters for later, Steve.
miguel
ps love that alt.bonehead.steve-chaney newsgroup!
the Danimal
> "miguel" <mjc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:E6qdnVrvFan...@comcast.com...
> | High blood pressure and cholesterol are strong risk factors for
> heart
> | disease. Both are common in people who are too fat, and often are
> | thought to explain why overweight people are more prone to heart
> disease.
> |
> | But there is a growing body of science suggesting that excess weight
> | alone is an independent risk factor for heart attacks, strokes and
> diabetes.
>
> of risk factors. You can't lose weight for someone else, but
> you can combat prejudice and second-class treatment.
In other words, you can attempt to change other people's
emotions and behavior. Why not change your own
emotions and behavior instead?
If you discovered some behavior-modification technology
that could make other people stop finding fat people
disgusting, and make them like fat people instead,
wouldn't it make more sense to use that same
technology to eliminate gluttony?
Fat people are fat because they feel urges to eat too
much.
Most people perpetrate various forms of prejudice against
fat people because they find fat people disgusting.
In each case, we are talking about the emotional responses
various people have to aspects of their environment.
The fat glutton responds strongly to food, and the
fat basher responds strongly to fat people.
If you could reprogram normal people to stop finding
the self-destructive behavior of gluttonly disgusting,
how would that benefit society? It would only make people
more tolerant of self-destructive behavior.
If you could reprogram people, why not reprogram them
to stop destroying themselves?
> | "People who say obesity has been hyped are wrong," Katz said.
>
> That's why our lifespans are increasing and heart disease is
> down as we get fatter. Sure.
Heart disease and cancer have less impact on life expectancy
than diseases which increase infant mortality. See:
http://www.phact.org/e/z/cancer.htm
If medical science could cure ALL forms of cancer and heart
disease, life expectancy would only increase about two years.
Believe it or not.
Nevertheless, cancer and heart disease are very serious health
problems. They obviously impact the lifespans of people who
get them much more than they impact the overall life expectancy.
-- the Danimal
cbianco
>If you discovered some behavior-modification technology
>that could make other people stop finding fat people
>disgusting, and make them like fat people instead,
>wouldn't it make more sense to use that same
>technology to eliminate gluttony?
>
>Fat people are fat because they feel urges to eat too
>much.
.. like how prolix advisors of The Fat are prolix because they feel
urges to advise The Fat so much?
to what end?
or kinder .. to what possible end?
cbianco
the Danimal
> "Or do they instead allocate their efforts toward
> futile attempts to increase their social status (i.e., compel
> others to admire them)?"
>
> I don't think fat women (or men) want to be admired.
Then why do fat women describe themselves as
"Big Beautiful Women" rather than "Big Ugly Women"?
People admire beautiful things. That is the normal
emotional response to beauty. We see something
beautiful, and we admire it. How do you react to
something you consider beautiful?
Fat women have to describe themselves as
beautiful because nobody else does. They want to
be admired just as any human wants to be admired.
But hardly anyone admires them.
Is the eating really worth it?
> It's a matter of
> respect, tolerance and above all, ending discrimination.
Are you saying hatred is OK as long as haters adhere
to some code of conduct?
How sufficiently detailed would this code of conduct have
to be to plug all possible loopholes?
Have you ever managed employees? If so, have you
noticed a difference in performance between
employees who hate their jobs vs. employees who
love their jobs?
An employee who hates his job will do the minimum
necessary to avoid getting fired. He won't make
any extra effort, even when it is apparent that
something else needs to be done, but management
has not recognized the need yet. The disgruntled
employee will look for subtle ways to "stick it to
the man," undermine the efforts of co-workers,
and generally be negatively productive.
An employee who loves his job will meet the
official requirements and then do the extra things
management isn't aware need doing. That's the
kind of "respect" you can't easily beat into
someone. It doesn't emerge from some list
of rules and regulations. It has to, somehow,
come from within.
Applied to interpersonal relations, there is no way
a fat slob could fail to notice a difference in treatment
from two individuals if one of them admires fat people
and the other one finds fat people disgusting. No
matter what sort of detailed code of conduct fat
people impose on everyone by force, people who
find fat people disgusting will continue to find new
ways to express how they feel.
> If someone
> doesn't agree that all people deserve this, well, they are morally
> bankrupt or ignorant.
How much respect and tolerance do you feel for
the people you consider to be morally bankrupt or
ignorant?
-- the Danimal
turtoni
"cbianco" <cSPAMREMO...@SPAMREMOVEsplitbrain.com> wrote in message
news:vhoos1hr3321jgd8a...@4ax.com...
Politics is a little more complex.
HTH.
> cbianco
>
>
the Danimal
> dan on fat
>
> >If you discovered some behavior-modification technology
> >that could make other people stop finding fat people
> >disgusting, and make them like fat people instead,
> >wouldn't it make more sense to use that same
> >technology to eliminate gluttony?
> >
> >Fat people are fat because they feel urges to eat too
> >much.
>
> .. like how prolix advisors of The Fat are prolix because they feel
> urges to advise The Fat so much?
Yes, and the critics of President George W. Bush may
experience a similar urge.
When people experience something they don't like, they
like to complain about it. At length.
> to what end?
The immediate goal is to sate an impulse.
> or kinder .. to what possible end?
Changing the world is difficult, but complaining about it
feels good right now.
On exceptionally rare occasions, complaints may
eventually stimulate some sort of constructive progress.
This becomes more likely when someone goes beyond
merely complaining and begins asking why.
Why are fat people targets of discrimination?
Why do fat people eat too much despite how obviously
stupid it is to do so?
Why did George W. Bush get elected?
Obviously, before anyone can begin thinking about
why a problem exists, someone must first recognize
that the problem exists.
> cbianco
-- the Danimal
Daedalus
(Steve Chaney, still taunting the happy fun ball), wrote:
>HTH
>
>
>
>In <Xns97489D76FAC...@199.245.68.61>, Gandalf Parker
><gan...@the.dead.ISP.of.Community.net> wrote:
>
>>miguel <mjc...@gmail.com> contributed wisdom to
>>news:E6qdnVrvFan...@comcast.com:
>>
>>> But there is a growing body of science suggesting that excess weight
>>> alone is an independent risk factor for heart attacks, strokes and
>>> diabetes.
>>
>>BZZZTTT you didnt read very carefully.
>>Plus its already been posted and made fun of.
>>
>>Gandalf Parker
>
Look who's trying to suck up to the Fat Acceptors after insulting them
the other day.
Jade
BrentAr...@hotmail.com
Steve Chaney, today is Tuesday.
2.49 x100
lose weight and stop dropping hundreds of Americna dollars on the
twonie special, obese!
Lady Veteran
Hash: SHA1
On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:59:12 GMT, wrote:
>In <t5qjs1h5slgsp1oi4...@4ax.com>, Lady Veteran
><arm...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>Hash: SHA1
>>
>>On 14 Jan 2006 15:27:13 GMT, wrote:
>>
>>>Lady Veteran <arm...@bigfoot.com> contributed wisdom to
>>>news:180hs1dndtkt73bmk...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> Gandolf-do you know this idiot is a lawyer practicing out of
>>>> Seattle Washington? This shyster failed logic 101 and has been
>>>> told several times by me and others he should get his money back
>>>> for his law
>>>> degree-or use it for toilet paper.
>>>
>>>Ahhh in that case maybe I should be saying something like "I
>>>object, calls for a conclusion from the witness" :)
>>>
>>>Gandalf Parker
>>
>>
>>LOL!!! How about saying that it is prima facie evidence that
>>counsel is non campos mentis?
>>
>>(excuse the Latin mis-spellings, but I think you get the idea :-)
>
>LV, don't go there, Midget man has a hard time following us in
>English. You'll make his head pop and then what will you say for
>yourself if his kids walk in and slip in it?
>
I would say that aint no tiptoe through the tulips-clean your shoes,
rugrats.
>
>-- Steve, cruel, cruel I tell you
>漱滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕內
>Steve Chaney
>gunh...@NRsmykicktoy.pacbell.net
>Remove "NRismykicktoy" to get my real email address
LV
- ------------------------------------------------------
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=Q1dj
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Lady Veteran
Hash: SHA1
Still wasting air, I see.
LV
- ------------------------------------------------------
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19w16+TVXWHZ+QiAVixFPVmB
=HVYt
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Lady Veteran
Hash: SHA1
On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 19:14:31 GMT, wrote:
>In <1137264610.5...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "the
>Danimal" <dmo...@mfm.com> wrote:
>
>>Gandalf Parker wrote:
>>> miguel <mjc...@gmail.com> contributed wisdom to
>>> news:W76dncG9duw...@comcast.com:
>>>
>>> > Gandalf Parker wrote:
>>> >> miguel <mjc...@gmail.com> contributed wisdom to
>>> >> news:1ZWdnYmuIua...@comcast.com:
>>> >
>>> > But, I guess you believe you are smart enough to criticize and
>>> > make fun of the study, as you have, without even reading it?
>>> > That's kinda weird. I don't know what your credentials are, but
>>> > the authors of the 30 year study seem to be really well
>>> > credentialed and smart.
>>>
>>> Then its worth reading. Im not making fun of the study. Im making
>>> fun of what you are saying about it. Im guessing that you dont
>>> have these credentials you are talking about?
>>
>>Miguel's credentials would only matter if he were trying to
>>invalidate the study.
>>
Mickey's credentials are nothing to write home about.
>>It's similar to claims about the shape of the Earth. If you
>>claim the Earth is spheroidal, nobody cares about your
>>credentials; if you claim the Earth is flat, then someone
>>might want to know what sort of training you had.
>>
>>You don't need any credentials to merely repeat some
>>expert opinion. The only issue is whether you repeated
>>it accurately.
>>
>>> >> But even then... Obesity=40% increased risk?
>>> >> At what age is this? At what exercise level? What are they
>>> >> recommending as a change? If its another "give up everything
>>> >> you like for the rest of your life and you can live bedridden
>>> >> from 70 to 75"
>>
>>It's possible to change what you like, to some extent.
>>
>>For example, most people who are out of shape find it
>>highly uncomfortable to exercise when they try to start.
>>
>>A person who sticks it out for the first several months, or
>>however long it takes that person to get in better shape,
>>will often find exercise becoming more enjoyable. I can
>>get on my bicycle and enjoy a 100 mile ride now, but
>>when I first started, I wasn't in good enough shape to do
>>that. If I could have completed 100 miles, at least the
>>last 50 would have felt like a death march.
>>
>>No one is telling gluttons to stop eating altogether.
It depends on what a glutton is a glutton for. Don't go through life
like the Daminal. He is a glutton for punishments. Why else would he
be invading space where his comments are as welcome as Joseph Mengele
at a Bar Mitzvah.
Gluttony is also the cause of sado-masochism...glutton for
punishment-get it?
I think the Danimal and Miguel both were used as baseballs as
children.
It is the only way he can get his "lower back exercise" Real women
avoid him.
>
>
>-- Steve, for the uninitiated, that means Danimal
>漱滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕內
>Steve Chaney
>gunh...@NRsmykicktoy.pacbell.net
>Remove "NRismykicktoy" to get my real email address
LV
- ------------------------------------------------------
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=MKLA
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Steve Chaney, still taunting the happy fun ball
>Re: Mike Cranston aka miguel hates fat people because he was beaten up
>for being short
>
>Steve Chaney, still taunting the happy fun ball wrote:
>> HTH
>
>That makes no sense. Why would I have fat people
Hahahahahahahahah!!!
>I'll save some more lies for later, Steve.
^^^ edited for correctness
Who libels people and then threatens to sue?
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
Who threatens everyone who thinks he's a joke?
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
Who is a midget who disses fat people?
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
Who cheated in college for a law degree?
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
Who posts on his website illegal MP3's?
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
Who thinks he is tough when he wears a goatee?
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
Who needs a tall ladder to get to the toilet?
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
Who calls for people's families to be stalked?
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
Whose website has been bombed back into the stone age?
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
Who is a lawyer who threatens people?
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
Who rags on people who do charity work?
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
** WHO TAKES ANONYMOUS POSTS AS GOSPEL TRUTH? **
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
Who counts as his friends racists and pedophiles?
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
Who says fucking sixteen year olds is okay?
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
Who's lost every case that he has fought in court?
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
Who's been divorced twice and now hunts girls online?
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
Who begs married women for nude videos?
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
Whose dad died lying face down in the gutter?
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
Who got denied custody of his own kids?
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
Who calls black men monkeys and says it's okay?
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
SPONGEBOB CRANSTON!
Steve Chaney, still taunting the happy fun ball
<arm...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
Actually, it is. What else do you think fills Cranston's skull? I know no
one is about to argue that there's gray matter inside his head except
perhaps concrete...
-- Steve
漱滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕內
Steve Chaney
gunh...@NRsmykicktoy.pacbell.net
Remove "NRismykicktoy" to get my real email address
"it must shock you that i respect jackie." - John Seiler
Lady Veteran
Hash: SHA1
LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!! Nice to see you kiddo.
>-- Steve
>漱滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕內
>Steve Chaney
>gunh...@NRsmykicktoy.pacbell.net
>Remove "NRismykicktoy" to get my real email address
>
- ------------------------------------------------------
I am anti-idiot, anti nazi and anti communist.
Frankly, I see no difference between the three.
- -------------------------------------------------
I rode a tank and held a General's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank
- - - - Rolling Stones - Sympathy for the Devil
- ----------------------------------------
Be who you are and say what you feel, because
those who mind don't matter and those who matter
don't mind.
- --Dr. Seuss
- ----------------------------------------
You are your greatest obstacle.
- - unknown
- ----------------------------------------
Time heals all wounds and wounds all heels.
- - unknown
_________________________________________
It is really too bad that stupidity isn't painful.
- - unknown
- ---------------------------------------------
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Lady Veteran
Hash: SHA1
On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 01:15:45 GMT, wrote:
>In <1idnt1defc0pc9uch...@4ax.com>, Lady Veteran
>Hey, how's it been? We just booked a trip to the land of macadamias
>for July. :D
>
>
Steve, You don't have to leave CONUS to find nuts. There are plenty
right here.
LV
- ------------------------------------------------------
I am anti-idiot, anti nazi and anti communist.
Frankly, I see no difference between the three.
- -------------------------------------------------
I rode a tank and held a General's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank
- - - - Rolling Stones - Sympathy for the Devil
- ----------------------------------------
Be who you are and say what you feel, because
those who mind don't matter and those who matter
don't mind.
- --Dr. Seuss
- ----------------------------------------
You are your greatest obstacle.
- - unknown
- ----------------------------------------
Time heals all wounds and wounds all heels.
- - unknown
_________________________________________
It is really too bad that stupidity isn't painful.
- - unknown
- ---------------------------------------------
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