Anyone for a holiday in Australia?
Mark...@gmail.com
Tom Allen
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7727818.stm
>
Tony Fox, the owner of the resort said he was lifting the self-imposed
ban as "tough economic times call for stiff measures".
[beavis]
Heh heh... heh heh... He said "stiff"... heh heh... heh heh
[/beavis]
People in tropical north Queensland are extraordinarily creative
Val Schier, Mayor of Cairns
"It will be a hedonism resort, where anything goes for a month. It
doesn't take rocket science to work out what it means," Mr Fox said.
The Bishop of Cairns James Foley asked: "You've got to wonder what sort
of people go and why."
--
Tom Allen
http://vanillaedge.wordpress.com
"I don't have multiple orgasms, myself... I am, however, known to be a
carrier."
toramjero
> MarkSo...@gmail.com wrote:
> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7727818.stm
>
> Tony Fox, the owner of the resort said he was lifting the self-imposed
> ban as "tough economic times call for stiff measures".
>
> [beavis]
> Heh heh... heh heh... He said "stiff"... heh heh... heh heh
> [/beavis]
>
> People in tropical north Queensland are extraordinarily creative
> Val Schier, Mayor of Cairns
>
> "It will be a hedonism resort, where anything goes for a month. It
> doesn't take rocket science to work out what it means," Mr Fox said.
>
> The Bishop of Cairns James Foley asked: "You've got to wonder what sort
> of people go and why."
>
Frankly, I don't wonder WHY. Maybe that bishop should reread his books
on the seven capital sins.
As to WHAT SORT of people go, I have no idea. I have read that people
going to swinger clubs are a very mixed bunch, so I suppose that it is
the same here. I have also read that gender imbalance is a problem in
swinger clubs (unless they are only open for couples, obviously), so I
suppose that it will also be the same in Queensland. And who knows?
Members of the clergy have been known to use the services of
professionals before, maybe some of them also enjoy hedonism
resorts...
However, the most interesting question, for me at least, would be "why
not?". Of course, I know the superficial answer: that people are
afraid, or think that these places are disgusting, etc... What I mean
is the real reason why some people who have fantasies (and who does
not?) chose to act on them and why some other people do not.
Kat
> On Nov 14, 12:31 pm, Tom Allen <taomlinS...@MEsbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > The Bishop of Cairns James Foley asked: "You've got to wonder what sort
> > of people go and why."
>
> Frankly, I don't wonder WHY. Maybe that bishop should reread his books
> on the seven capital sins.
What I don't understand is why do many people are against this type of
resort? If you don't want to go then don't go that's a choice each
individual can make on their own but why do some people feel the need
to "speak out" against hedonism and so many other expressions of
freedom?
suzee
Because they see it as immoral that it's their duty to "save" the
hedonists from `hell'. Of course since us hedonists don't believe in
hell in the first place, they come off as interfering busybodies....
sue
-Elizabeth-
Having just returned from Thailand and just about to go to northern
New South Wales (where I have a house) - just near the Queensland
border - I can tell you that nothing that happens in Australia comes
close to what I saw in Bangkok. We Aussies are generally an inhibited
lot (too much Anglo-Saxon blood).
toramjero
Jealousy, maybe? As in "if I can't have fun, I'll make sure that no-
one will".
Norton
The world is full of people who want to dictate how *you*
live your life. I regard that as generally evil.
As to why they do it, I often suspect it is because they
would like to do the same things and are afraid to do
them. So they do not want to be tempted by seeing those
things going on around them. Hence they want it all
stopped.
--
--- Norton
Kat
> As to why they do it, I often suspect it is because they
> would like to do the same things and are afraid to do
> them. So they do not want to be tempted by seeing those
> things going on around them. Hence they want it all
> stopped.
This is the best explanation I've heard yet. Thanks.
suzee
Yeah that ol' debbil Temptation. You'd think they'd figure out that it's
really their inner self...
sue
Gordon
others have "converted" and thus will be picked upon.
It is fear which dives them.
In a sexual context, people are scared that legalising homosexuality will
have so many closet doors opening and people coming out that they the hetro
will be a minority.
Of course all that happens is that gays are allowed to be free and are
accepted as existing.
Irfon-Kim Ahmad
> However, the most interesting question, for me at least, would be "why
> not?". Of course, I know the superficial answer: that people are
> afraid, or think that these places are disgusting, etc... What I mean
> is the real reason why some people who have fantasies (and who does
> not?) chose to act on them and why some other people do not.
I believe that there are lots of people who don't really have fantasies
in this sort of way. I've spoken to many people who, rather than
fantasizing about possibities, tend to reminisce about events in their
past instead, or at most fantasize about things they've already done but
with different people involved. So I think in cases like this one (a
hedonism resort), it's quite possible that lots and lots of people have
never fantasized about it.
Also, many people find it useful to have fantasies that aren't realized.
I think that this is especially true of people whose brains are doggedly
realistic -- that their minds interject with practicaties and objections
even during fantasy. Unrealized fantasies can be imagined in a way
that's less sullied by the practicalities of reality. But also even for
people who don't have that, there are fantasies that aren't practical to
try to realize, fantasies that aren't worth the effort for them to
realize, fantasies that they wouldn't even want to realize, etc.
There's not even a 1:1 ratio of things people enjoy in their fantasies
and things peopel *would* enjoy in real life. For example, I have a lot
of idle daydreams about group sex, but when I've had the opportunity in
real life, I didn't enjoy it that much.
The big reasons I wouldn't be interested in going to a sex resort:
1. The possibility of diseases -- STDs and such.
2. Not sure how comfortable my partners would be with it.
3. Australia is far and the tickets would be expensive, plus I've never
been there. If I were to pay all that money to fly out to Australia,
there seem like better ways to use that time -- visiting different
cities, etc.
4. Related to point 3, my libido is not that high, so it's often not my
top priority.
5. I'm not sure that I would fit in, especially at a nudist place.
While there are plenty of people who find me attractive, I'm not a
mainstream "hot guy" sort.
toramjero
> toramjero <toramj...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > However, the most interesting question, for me at least, would be "why
> > not?". Of course, I know the superficial answer: that people are
> > afraid, or think that these places are disgusting, etc... What I mean
> > is the real reason why some people who have fantasies (and who does
> > not?) chose to act on them and why some other people do not.
>
> I believe that there are lots of people who don't really have fantasies
> in this sort of way. I've spoken to many people who, rather than
> fantasizing about possibities, tend to reminisce about events in their
> past instead, or at most fantasize about things they've already done but
> with different people involved. So I think in cases like this one (a
> hedonism resort), it's quite possible that lots and lots of people have
> never fantasized about it.
>
One does not really need to fantasize. The description of the resort
is explicit enough.
> Also, many people find it useful to have fantasies that aren't realized.
> I think that this is especially true of people whose brains are doggedly
> realistic -- that their minds interject with practicaties and objections
> even during fantasy. Unrealized fantasies can be imagined in a way
> that's less sullied by the practicalities of reality. But also even for
> people who don't have that, there are fantasies that aren't practical to
> try to realize, fantasies that aren't worth the effort for them to
> realize, fantasies that they wouldn't even want to realize, etc.
> There's not even a 1:1 ratio of things people enjoy in their fantasies
> and things peopel *would* enjoy in real life. For example, I have a lot
> of idle daydreams about group sex, but when I've had the opportunity in
> real life, I didn't enjoy it that much.
>
But:
1: you've tried it
2: you don't try to prevent other people to try it.
> The big reasons I wouldn't be interested in going to a sex resort:
>
> 1. The possibility of diseases -- STDs and such.
> 2. Not sure how comfortable my partners would be with it.
> 3. Australia is far and the tickets would be expensive, plus I've never
> been there. If I were to pay all that money to fly out to Australia,
> there seem like better ways to use that time -- visiting different
> cities, etc.
> 4. Related to point 3, my libido is not that high, so it's often not my
> top priority.
> 5. I'm not sure that I would fit in, especially at a nudist place.
> While there are plenty of people who find me attractive, I'm not a
> mainstream "hot guy" sort.
(As a side note and just for your information: nudist places are full
of not mainstream hot guys and girls. People who are -who can I say
that politely?- not exactly thin, if this is what you meant, are to be
found in nudist places.)
toramjero
It is not only that they are afraid to do them. It is also that they
could not do them, for lack of willing partner. Frustration is a big
part of their agressivity. They think that they would be rejected in
an hedonist resort.
And, frankly, they are probably right. Even if they would turn down
their aggressivity, who wants an inexperienced, unimaginative and
inhibited partner for sex play? I imagine that most "vanilla" people
(if that is the correct term) make poor sex partners: they have few
fantasies, they are too inhibited to know their desires or needs, if
they know some of them, they are not assertive enough to express them,
and since they don't know their limits, they are afraid to submit
themselves to the desires of others.
Tom Allen
Or, you know, they could just have developed certain moral principles
which dictate to *them* that certain things are bad in general, and so
they try to live in a world in which such bad things are eradicated.
--
Tom Allen
http://vanillaedge.wordpress.com/
"I don't have multiple orgasms, myself. I am, however, known to be a
carrier."
Norton
I believe in hell (small 'h') because that's where all the
good parties are. The booze flows, nobody is worried about
STD's and everyone has a good time.
The superinyourface moralists wouldn't be caught dead there.
--
--- Norton
Norton
Thank you.
--
--- Norton
Norton
I think they have, which is why some of our more, uh, hyper
religious pay so much attention to their inner selves. And
it makes it easy for them to attribute to *you* their own
desires.
--
--- Norton
Denny Wheeler
<taom...@SPAMsbcglobal.net> wrote:
>Or, you know, they could just have developed certain moral principles
>which dictate to *them* that certain things are bad in general, and so
>they try to live in a world in which such bad things are eradicated.
Far more likely that they were indoctrinated into said principles. I
find that almost none of the folk who really think about such matters
come up with that sort of narrow attitude.
--
"Every single religion that has a monotheistic god
winds up persecuting someone else."
-Philip Pullman
-denny-
(not as curmudgeonly as I useta be)
Denny Wheeler
>Because they see it as immoral that it's their duty to "save" the
>hedonists from `hell'. Of course since us hedonists don't believe in
>hell in the first place, they come off as interfering busybodies....
That'd be cos they ARE interfering busybodies.
Denny Wheeler
wrote:
"Gay marriage would cheapen mine."
And I love the reply I saw in today's paper, or online--"Bigamy's
illegal, so I don't think you'd be added to the marriage if Joe
marries George."
I have yet to see ANY cogent or close-to-cogent argument against gay
marriage. Hell, I could come up with one or two semi-legit arguments
against the 'hedonism resort' idea, but not against gay (or other
kinds, ftm) marriage.
But then, I've never understood the bluenose/nobody should have fun
mindset(s).
Norton
I think that's only part of the answer. Why are they afraid
of being part of a minority? Do they think that a world governed
by homosexuals will *force* homosexuality on everyone?
--
--- Norton
Norton
[snippage]
>It is not only that they are afraid to do them. It is also that they
>could not do them, for lack of willing partner. Frustration is a big
>part of their agressivity. They think that they would be rejected in
>an hedonist resort.
>And, frankly, they are probably right. Even if they would turn down
>their aggressivity, who wants an inexperienced, unimaginative and
>inhibited partner for sex play? I imagine that most "vanilla" people
>(if that is the correct term) make poor sex partners: they have few
>fantasies, they are too inhibited to know their desires or needs, if
>they know some of them, they are not assertive enough to express them,
>and since they don't know their limits, they are afraid to submit
>themselves to the desires of others.
That's interesting. Sex, like so many other things, seems to
come in flavors. If one is looking for some physical fun,
a rollicking roll in the hay, or something like that, then I'd
imagine that one would look for an experienced partner with
interests that parallel your own.
On the other hand, if what you crave is new relationship
energy, spending some time with a much less experienced person
can be very rewarding as they discover things about themselves
they've never known.
Having once (quite by accident) induced a major multiple orgasm
in a partner who had never had one before, I not only relish
the memory, but cherish what she said to me after: "I never
knew I could do that!"
And she wasn't exactly vanilla either.
--
--- Norton
Norton
That's true. And speaking for myself, I really don't much
care for folks who insist that *they* know the truth and
feel that they must force *their* truth on me.
Issues such as sex are complex. And I don't know why any
adult would think otherwise. As a result "rules" can at
best be only guidelines. To be forbidden to make your own
choices is to be denied your humanity.
--
--- Norton
suzee
Well see, if homosexuality is seen as `okay' more people will be tempted
to try it out..... Yeah, right.
sue
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>Well see, if homosexuality is seen as `okay' more people will be tempted
>to try it out..... Yeah, right.
No culture in this world has a majority of homosexuals, which suggests that the
paranoid anti-homosexual lobby is overstating its case. Fact is, people aren't
lining up to be gay, no matter how many rights gays and lesbians win.
Orlando
suzee
Right. WE know that, but the people afraid of it are so blinded by their
fears they can't see it.
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>Right. WE know that, but the people afraid of it are so blinded by their
>fears they can't see it.
Fear of what exactly? Sociology and history prove that they have nothing to
fear; masses of disenchanted youths are not becoming gay as an act of rebellion
or protest. As another poster recently wrote, who would sign up for
ostracization, discrimination, risk of sexually transmitted disease and
physical violence unless they felt they had no other biological choice? Sooner
or later, this discussion is going to have to transcend Biblical edicts because
the entire world does not and should not live by the Christian Bible. There
need to be spaces for homosexuals to be tolerated, embraced and even shunned. I
have no problem with private institutions rejecting homosexuals because it is
their right. However, the beliefs of mainstream Christianity regarding
homosexuality as a sin should not speak for the entire WEstern world.
Orlando
Dave
Wheeler(REMOVE LUNCH)<den...@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net> was claimed to have
wrote:
>I have yet to see ANY cogent or close-to-cogent argument against gay
>marriage. Hell, I could come up with one or two semi-legit arguments
>against the 'hedonism resort' idea, but not against gay (or other
>kinds, ftm) marriage.
The closest I've seen is a Texan friend of mine who goes off on an rant
about how guys will marry for tax benefits, to share health insurance,
and take advantage of other financial benefits.
He's not entirely wrong, some percentage of people will form marriages
of convenience strictly for mutual financial gain, to get around
immigration laws or for other similar motivations. This already happens
between male and female couples, and I'm betting the social stigma
against gays will ensure that far less gay couples do this then straight
couples.
What really amuses me is watching some of the more adamant homophobic
arguments that essentially boil down to straight guys wanting to "avoid
temptation", which to me is all but an admission that they are attracted
to other men. Mark Foley, Larry Craig, et all, I'm looking at you and
your type when I say I find this amusing.
Gordon Burditt
>of being part of a minority? Do they think that a world governed
>by homosexuals will *force* homosexuality on everyone?
Yes, because they know that a world governed by heterosexuals
(especially themselves) will try to *force* heterosexuality on
everyone, and they are encouraging just that.
toramjero
I don't think that "new relationship discovery" applies to a sex
resort.
On the surface explanations like "believe in hell" or "afraid of
intimacy", etc... seem convincing, but I think that they only scratch
the surface.
I have met quite a few intolerant people and I think that the root of
the problem is different. What we tend to forget is that these people
see the world as a very competitive place. The caricature of the home
woman in an impeccable house or the man with a sharp suit in a plush
car does not exist for nothing. If you talk with these people, you
will realise that they are accutely aware of their social status and
obsessed about increasing it by competing with others and winning.
Group sex suddenly opens a new line of competition and one which they
fear they will lose. If you talk beyond the facade you will realise
that women are afraid that other women will be physically more
attractive or that they fear that they would not be able to offer the
kind of sex they imagine as taking place in a sex resort, and
therefore lose to women who can and will. Men are classically afraid
to have to compete on imagined size, body type or physical abilities.
Some who are a bit better informed also realise that they will lose on
criterias like knowledge or imagination (from personal experience
probably rightly so).
The easiest way to win for them is simply to eliminate what they
perceive as occasions where competition or comparison could take
place.
Just to avoid a misunderstanding: I have no idea whether competition
actually takes place in a sex resort and if so, on which criterias. I
am talking about imagined competition.
toramjero
I think that Sparta and other cities in ancient Greece required what
could be seen as homosexual relations between their male citizens.
Norton
Of course. What I wrote was sarcasm and Suzee answered in
a similar vein.
--
--- Norton
Norton
You've got a point.
--
--- Norton
Norton
But I wasn't talking about a sex resort in particular. Still,
I think that it would apply there too. For many folks I
think that there is always a thrill over a new partner.
>On the surface explanations like "believe in hell" or "afraid of
>intimacy", etc... seem convincing, but I think that they only scratch
>the surface.
>I have met quite a few intolerant people and I think that the root of
>the problem is different. What we tend to forget is that these people
>see the world as a very competitive place. The caricature of the home
>woman in an impeccable house or the man with a sharp suit in a plush
>car does not exist for nothing. If you talk with these people, you
>will realise that they are accutely aware of their social status and
>obsessed about increasing it by competing with others and winning.
>Group sex suddenly opens a new line of competition and one which they
>fear they will lose. If you talk beyond the facade you will realise
>that women are afraid that other women will be physically more
>attractive or that they fear that they would not be able to offer the
>kind of sex they imagine as taking place in a sex resort, and
>therefore lose to women who can and will. Men are classically afraid
>to have to compete on imagined size, body type or physical abilities.
>Some who are a bit better informed also realise that they will lose on
>criterias like knowledge or imagination (from personal experience
>probably rightly so).
>The easiest way to win for them is simply to eliminate what they
>perceive as occasions where competition or comparison could take
>place.
I think you are right in this. I think marriages are closed by
custom because of fear that one partner might find someone
"better".
But I'm not totally convinced that applies at a sex resort. It
may be that one does not find *anybody* interested at all, which
is certainly a bummer, but life is like that.
>Just to avoid a misunderstanding: I have no idea whether competition
>actually takes place in a sex resort and if so, on which criterias. I
>am talking about imagined competition.
Well, for those who would never go to one, the competition is
certainly imagined.
--
--- Norton
Kat
> (As a side note and just for your information: nudist places are full
> of not mainstream hot guys and girls. People who are -who can I say
> that politely?- not exactly thin, if this is what you meant, are to be
> found in nudist places.)
Part of me is interested in finding some sort of nudest resort or
other vacation type destination but the sun and I don't get along all
that well and I haven't really found anything else along those lines
that doesn't revolve around sun. I would be interested in either
something sexual or not as despite being rather sexual most of the
time I think it would be fascinating to explore nudity without
sexuality being a focus.
I'm actually under weight but still not exactly your mainstream hot
girl since I am decidedly lacking in curves.
Dave
<ir...@ambienautica.com> was claimed to have wrote:
>The big reasons I wouldn't be interested in going to a sex resort:
>
>1. The possibility of diseases -- STDs and such.
How about if STD tests were performed immediately before the resort?
Admittedly this isn't foolproof due to the incubation period of some
STDs and the processing time for tests, but it might be feasible to come
up with a working system.
>2. Not sure how comfortable my partners would be with it.
Always a factor to consider. In my case I'm in an open relationship and
so it wouldn't be a huge problem to discuss the topic, but my girlfriend
is more interested in relationships that include an emotional component,
not just sex, so I'm not sure how interested she'd be.
>3. Australia is far and the tickets would be expensive, plus I've never
>been there. If I were to pay all that money to fly out to Australia,
>there seem like better ways to use that time -- visiting different
>cities, etc.
I am really looking forward to visiting Australia, but I wouldn't take
that length of a flight just for a sex resort. Lets rule this one out
too and pretend that such resorts existed somewhere local, would that
change anything?
>4. Related to point 3, my libido is not that high, so it's often not my
>top priority.
This would be my biggest issue personally, my girlfriend would enjoy
more frequent sex at home, and that involves far less travel time and
expense. Don't get me wrong, I love to travel, but still.
>5. I'm not sure that I would fit in, especially at a nudist place.
>While there are plenty of people who find me attractive, I'm not a
>mainstream "hot guy" sort.
My understanding is that most nudists aren't either. Most people
aren't, anyway, and I unless nudist resorts screen I can't see them
being any different then the rest of the real world.
Gordon
>
> I'm actually under weight but still not exactly your mainstream hot
> girl since I am decidedly lacking in curves.
>
side.
Here is wishing you some weight increase. For it will will make you feel
better.
Meanwhile do not let it get to you. At the end of the day personality will
win over body shape
Kat
> On 2008-11-21, Kat <ki...@gothkat.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm actually under weight but still not exactly your mainstream hot
> > girl since I am decidedly lacking in curves.
>
> I never thought I would see this. A woman who thinks she is on the thin
> side.
It isn't really that I think I am on the thin side as much as it is a
health issue I just can't put on weight which means whenever I see a
doctor I always get the essential fat lecture.
It's bad enough that when I was in the hospital after my accident last
year the hospital had a nurse assigned to monitor me to make sure I
was actually eating because my doctor couldn't believe I wasn't
putting on weight with the number of calories they were dumping into
me and the worst part is that I wasn't even exercising at all since I
was basically attached to the bed.
To anyone who reads this an envies me consider that the last time I
had a stomach flu and couldn't keep anything down I ended up in this
hospital by the second day. Being underweight is at least as unhealthy
as being overweight.
> Here is wishing you some weight increase. For it will will make you feel
> better.
At this point my weight is closer to being reasonable but because I
jog a lot my body fat percentage is still in the unhealthy category.
I'm consuming at least 1000 more calories a day then I am burning but
it isn't helping.
> Meanwhile do not let it get to you. At the end of the day personality will
> win over body shape
It doesn't bother me a bit I have no desire at all to have a
cheerleader body but I would like to be a bit healthier. This look
also drives some guys wild so that works out.
toramjero
> On Nov 17, 10:52 am, toramjero <toramj...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > (As a side note and just for your information: nudist places are full
> > of not mainstream hot guys and girls. People who are -who can I say
> > that politely?- not exactly thin, if this is what you meant, are to be
> > found in nudist places.)
>
> Part of me is interested in finding some sort of nudest resort or
> other vacation type destination but the sun and I don't get along all
> that well and I haven't really found anything else along those lines
> that doesn't revolve around sun. I would be interested in either
> something sexual or not as despite being rather sexual most of the
> time I think it would be fascinating to explore nudity without
> sexuality being a focus.
>
Not going very well along with the sun is part of the gothic look,
isn't it?
If you are looking for something sexual, I think that "Cap d'Agde" (in
France) is about what you are looking for. It is a nudist place which
has been almost completely devoted to swingers (much to the chagrin of
hard core naturists BTW). I think that there are 4 or 5 swinger clubs
right in the nudist village. French law does not allow to have sex
outside however, and the police has been reported to patrol the beach
so you'll have to go in a club. And it seems that the "nudist" part is
taken to include provocative attire as well, especially in the
evenings. (All this not from personal experience, I have never been to
the place or even to a swinger club).
Of course, this being the south of France, the sun can be very strong
in summer, but you can avoid the warmers hours of the day and the
hotter months and be fine. Note that july and august are the hotter
months (and also the most expensive, it's the summer holiday), june
and september are still normally fine and a bit cooler (but the sun is
still very hot around noon). I have no idea whether the place is still
very active outside those months, however. It is very much a tourist
resort.
Apart from the sex and nude part, the place is horrible, BTW. Lots of
concrete blocks.
If you are looking for a place where nudity is taken in a relaxed way,
Germany is probably your best bet. Not everyone is a nudist, of
course, but for example in Munich you will find nudist places in the
city parks (legal and marked as such). It is not uncommon to see
someone in business attire to undress and have a quick sun bath during
their lunch break. Outside of the official places, nudity is not
allowed but the police will just kindly ask you to put a bathing suit
on, that's all. There are nudist areas in every city swimming pool as
well, and nudity is compulsory in the city saunas. No sex, of course.
Nudist places are designed as "FKK" in Germany (Frei Körper Kultur =
free body culture, a rather puzzling choice of words if you ask me).
> I'm actually under weight but still not exactly your mainstream hot
> girl since I am decidedly lacking in curves.
Underweight women always lack curves... but I don't think this has
ever caused difficulties to find a sex partner. You think that you are
not a hot girl?
toramjero
> On Nov 21, 12:57 am, Gordon <Gor...@clear.net.nz> wrote:
>
> > On 2008-11-21, Kat <ki...@gothkat.com> wrote:
>
> > > I'm actually under weight but still not exactly your mainstream hot
> > > girl since I am decidedly lacking in curves.
>
> > I never thought I would see this. A woman who thinks she is on the thin
> > side.
>
> It isn't really that I think I am on the thin side as much as it is a
> health issue I just can't put on weight which means whenever I see a
> doctor I always get the essential fat lecture.
>
> It's bad enough that when I was in the hospital after my accident last
> year the hospital had a nurse assigned to monitor me to make sure I
> was actually eating because my doctor couldn't believe I wasn't
> putting on weight with the number of calories they were dumping into
> me and the worst part is that I wasn't even exercising at all since I
> was basically attached to the bed.
>
I was extremely thin as well when younger (I am still relatively
slender), and doctors also were unhappy about it... But, probably
because I am a man, I was never suspected of anorexia.
> To anyone who reads this an envies me consider that the last time I
> had a stomach flu and couldn't keep anything down I ended up in this
> hospital by the second day. Being underweight is at least as unhealthy
> as being overweight.
>
> > Here is wishing you some weight increase. For it will will make you feel
> > better.
>
> At this point my weight is closer to being reasonable but because I
> jog a lot my body fat percentage is still in the unhealthy category.
> I'm consuming at least 1000 more calories a day then I am burning but
> it isn't helping.
>
Worrying about it is probably the unealthier part... ;)
Still: someone I know with a similar problem found out that she put on
weight when she stopped eating potatoes and bread. She also felt
better. I know it is not supposed to make sense, but probably she had
some intolerance to these foods. In any case, trying a different diet
for a couple of weeks may be worth considering. And not necessarily
the diets which are supposed to help you gain weight...
Kat
> I was extremely thin as well when younger (I am still relatively
> slender), and doctors also were unhappy about it... But, probably
> because I am a man, I was never suspected of anorexia.
Men have all the luck.
> Worrying about it is probably the unealthier part... ;)
I am pretty sure that being underweight to the point that it causes
health problems is the unhealthy part. I don't really worry about it
all that much but I did get referred to a nutritionist and I even went
just in case they had anything useful to offer. He didn't. I tried his
recommended diet and lost 6 pounds the first week after which I
stopped since that put me back below the weight where the hospital
wouldn't discharge me.
> Still: someone I know with a similar problem found out that she put on
> weight when she stopped eating potatoes and bread. She also felt
> better. I know it is not supposed to make sense, but probably she had
> some intolerance to these foods. In any case, trying a different diet
> for a couple of weeks may be worth considering. And not necessarily
> the diets which are supposed to help you gain weight...
I've tried a lot of different things since my teenage years usually
due to changing life circumstances and without any real success. These
days I eat out a lot which you'd think would help. One week not so
long ago it was beer and nachos four days in a row and then fast food
or pizza on the way home.
Kat
> Not going very well along with the sun is part of the gothic look,
> isn't it?
Yeah, in fact the whole anti-sun thing is probably where the goth look
started.
> Apart from the sex and nude part, the place is horrible, BTW. Lots of
> concrete blocks.
Concrete can be strangely beautiful if done right.
> If you are looking for a place where nudity is taken in a relaxed way,
> Germany is probably your best bet. Not everyone is a nudist, of
> course, but for example in Munich you will find nudist places in the
> city parks (legal and marked as such). It is not uncommon to see
> someone in business attire to undress and have a quick sun bath during
> their lunch break. Outside of the official places, nudity is not
> allowed but the police will just kindly ask you to put a bathing suit
> on, that's all. There are nudist areas in every city swimming pool as
> well, and nudity is compulsory in the city saunas. No sex, of course.
I've heard positive things about Germany before but never about the
nudism side of things. I might have to see about picking up the
language and plan a trip.
> > I'm actually under weight but still not exactly your mainstream hot
> > girl since I am decidedly lacking in curves.
>
> Underweight women always lack curves... but I don't think this has
> ever caused difficulties to find a sex partner. You think that you are
> not a hot girl?
I said I'm not mainstream cheerleader hot but experimental evidence
suggests I may be hot since I catch guys drooling. It just takes a bit
more time and effort to find clothes that fit well and accent what I
want to accent.
darklily
> On Nov 21, 12:57 am, Gordon <Gor...@clear.net.nz> wrote:
>
> > On 2008-11-21, Kat <ki...@gothkat.com> wrote:
>
> > > I'm actually under weight but still not exactly your mainstream hot
> > > girl since I am decidedly lacking in curves.
>
> > I never thought I would see this. A woman who thinks she is on the thin
> > side.
>
> It isn't really that I think I am on the thin side as much as it is a
> health issue I just can't put on weight which means whenever I see a
> doctor I always get the essential fat lecture.
>
They've checked all the possible reasons, I take it? You'r thyroid is
ok?
I've had a couple of friends who are like what you describe, and there
was always some underlying problem. :-(
Darklily
toramjero
> On Nov 21, 2:46 am, toramjero <toramj...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > I was extremely thin as well when younger (I am still relatively
> > slender), and doctors also were unhappy about it... But, probably
> > because I am a man, I was never suspected of anorexia.
>
> Men have all the luck.
Well then, at your age, I didn't have sex. (ssg obsex remark)
>
> > Worrying about it is probably the unealthier part... ;)
>
> I am pretty sure that being underweight to the point that it causes
> health problems is the unhealthy part. I don't really worry about it
> all that much but I did get referred to a nutritionist and I even went
> just in case they had anything useful to offer. He didn't. I tried his
> recommended diet and lost 6 pounds the first week after which I
> stopped since that put me back below the weight where the hospital
> wouldn't discharge me.
>
> > Still: someone I know with a similar problem found out that she put on
> > weight when she stopped eating potatoes and bread. She also felt
> > better. I know it is not supposed to make sense, but probably she had
> > some intolerance to these foods. In any case, trying a different diet
> > for a couple of weeks may be worth considering. And not necessarily
> > the diets which are supposed to help you gain weight...
>
> I've tried a lot of different things since my teenage years usually
> due to changing life circumstances and without any real success. These
> days I eat out a lot which you'd think would help. One week not so
> long ago it was beer and nachos four days in a row and then fast food
> or pizza on the way home.
What I meant is that this person got weight by eating in a way which
everyone would think that it would NOT help. You may have not tried
that.
toramjero
> On 2008-11-21, Kat <ki...@gothkat.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm actually under weight but still not exactly your mainstream hot
> > girl since I am decidedly lacking in curves.
>
> I never thought I would see this. A woman who thinks she is on the thin
> side.
>
I know a few. It is not common nowadays, but not exceptional either.
> Here is wishing you some weight increase. For it will will make you feel
> better.
>
Some people really have difficulties to put on weight.
> Meanwhile do not let it get to you. At the end of the day personality will
> win over body shape
This, and different body shapes attract different people.
What Kat probably complains about, however, is simply to have small
breasts. I mean: it was a problem for all the women I knew who
complained about being too thin. But it is not important, there are
plenty of men who do not care about breasts.
Kat
> On Nov 21, 4:00 am, Kat <ki...@gothkat.com> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 21, 12:57 am, Gordon <Gor...@clear.net.nz> wrote:
>
> > > On 2008-11-21, Kat <ki...@gothkat.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I'm actually under weight but still not exactly your mainstream hot
> > > > girl since I am decidedly lacking in curves.
>
> > > I never thought I would see this. A woman who thinks she is on the thin
> > > side.
>
> > It isn't really that I think I am on the thin side as much as it is a
> > health issue I just can't put on weight which means whenever I see a
> > doctor I always get the essential fat lecture.
>
> They've checked all the possible reasons, I take it? You'r thyroid is
> ok?
Yeah one of the perks of being Canadian is that when you're in the
hospital doctors can do whatever tests they want without fear if
having to justify themselves to the insurance companies paying the
bills.
When I was 15 and saw a doctor I was told that a number of my hormonal
levels were out of wack and got referred to a bunch of different
specialists each having their own opinions most of which conflicted
with each other and sometimes even varied from day to day what a joy.
> I've had a couple of friends who are like what you describe, and there
> was always some underlying problem. :-(
Hopefully they found it and were able to do something?
J.F.
> and nudity is compulsory in the city saunas. No sex, of course.
This is from my experience the norm in at least Scandinavia and
middle Europe. You can of course strategically position your towel :-)
It was on a conference trip quite interesting to see the Swedish and
French men and women jointly visiting without ado the sauna while the
Russian women giggled and decided to reserve the sauna for themselves
later on.
> Nudist places are designed as "FKK" in Germany (Frei Körper Kultur =
> free body culture, a rather puzzling choice of words if you ask me).
Why do find it puzzling?
J.F.
toramjero
Probably simply because I am not German. It is the use of the word
"Kultur" which I find a bit puzzling, BTW.
Norton
Two points: First, there is some evidence that folks who have
been very thin will live longer than the rest of us.
Second, when a guy first sees a woman, he sees a face and a body.
If he gets to meet her and talk to her, then her personality
comes through and the face and body are much less important.
What I've found is that women I like get steadily more beautiful
to me.
--
--- Norton
Norton
I'd put on a hundred pounds that way... ;-)
--
--- Norton
Norton
My take on this:
Culture doesn't really deal with art museums and great books.
It really refers to the majority lifestyle in a given nation.
Thus if a society accepts nudity under some circumstances,
that's part of their culture.
--
--- Norton
J.F.
>> > Nudist places are designed as "FKK" in Germany (Frei Körper Kultur =
>> > free body culture, a rather puzzling choice of words if you ask me).
>>
>> Why do find it puzzling?
>
> Probably simply because I am not German. It is the use of the word
> "Kultur" which I find a bit puzzling, BTW.
Ah, okay. "Kultur" and "culture" seem to have slightly different
meanings. The German word also has a strong connotation of maintaining
and nourishing traditions and customs ("cultivate").
J.F.
JustGB
> Kat <ki...@gothkat.com> wrote:
> >I've tried a lot of different things since my teenage years usually
> >due to changing life circumstances and without any real success. These
> >days I eat out a lot which you'd think would help. One week not so
> >long ago it was beer and nachos four days in a row and then fast food
> >or pizza on the way home.
>
> I'd put on a hundred pounds that way... ;-)
>
....and died of a heart attack the next day :-(
JustGB
Kat
> Two points: First, there is some evidence that folks who have
> been very thin will live longer than the rest of us.
From what I've read thin is good but too thin is nearly as bad as
being obese but what I don't know is whether being thin is cause or
effect.
Norton
Darn right!
These days I have a continuing battle against weight gain.
If I look at a bag of potato chips (carbs and salt) I gain
five pounds. If I eat them, 10 pounds.
Oh well, sex is usually non-fattening and I prefer it anyway.
--
--- Norton
Norton
As they say in Brooklyn, you is what you is. I think the worst
thing you can do is put on 20 pounds and lose 20 pounds, over and
over again.
Doctors don't know everything. If your body wants to maintain a
certain weight, and if you are eating decently and exercising one
way or another (the bedroom isn't the best place but it is far
better than nothing), then your weight is what it is.
--
--- Norton
suzee
And a good way to work off the chips too...
sue
Kat
> Doctors don't know everything. If your body wants to maintain a
> certain weight, and if you are eating decently and exercising one
> way or another (the bedroom isn't the best place but it is far
> better than nothing), then your weight is what it is.
I'm reasonably active for an IT girl. I jog almost every day and try
to squeeze in some volunteer work teaching a woman's self defense
class but need to balance this against increasing my caloric and carb
intake to match because I don't need a doctor to point out how much
worse I feel in day to day life if my weight does drop.
toramjero
Yes, there are problems with being too thin (as opposed to simply
being thin). I'll second the idea that you should have your hormones
checked, especially the thyroid. I know that you believe that you have
already be checked all over, but generally speaking many doctors are
not very good about hormones. You really need a specialist.