Did you lose your virginity with an internet date?
Erieite
sites to try and find a female partner to help me lose my virginity,
but I'm not having any success. (I'm a 29 year old male, by the way)
Of the women who've responded and seem not to be spambots, I reply to
their initial email, then I never hear from them again. I don't know
what I'm doing wrong, and I don t really want to go into the details
of what I wrote to each of them. So, could anyone who has had some
success in this area tell me what worked for them at least?
Thanks in advance for any insight you can lend.
toramjero
I think that the chances to lose ones virginity on an Internet date
are pretty slim for anyone.
You should try something else instead.
Irfon-Kim Ahmad
Where are you trying? Are the social networking sites specifically for
that purpose? I would expect something like adultfriendfinder would be
best for that. It's hard to give much more advice other than "pick your
venue carefully -- choose one that attracts people who are likely to
also be interested in what you're offering" without knowing what your
messages were like. *shrug*
The web didn't exist when I lost my virginity. :)
Jana
I once joined an online dating site for the purpose of finding someone
for casual sex. I had a few particular interests/fantasies and one of
them was to find someone in your situation :) So here is my take on it:
You might not be doing anything wrong. There is typically many (many,
many!) more men on these sites than women. When I joined, I got
*hundreds* of messages whenever I logged on. It was almost impossible to
read them all, let alone reply to them. There were quite a few guys who
seemed OK that in the end I didn't reply to. I had no reason whatsoever
not to communicate with them (so I couldn't give them a real reason for
stopping the conversation) but it is hard to keep up with several
separate chats and harder yet to keep up with several dozens...
Not to mention I was nervous for being on this site and actually looking
for a casual sex partner... I did find a half-virgin (no experience with
girls yet) but then he got nervous and stopped replying.
The guy I did end up with was much cooler than I had hoped for :) So I
can tell you what got me to talk to him in the first place.
1) He seemed interested in engaging in conversation with me. It didn't
feel as if he was desperate in any way, it didn't feel as if he had any
expectations regarding me - it felt as if he enjoyed the experience of
chatting with me. So there was no feeling of pressure which most of
these other messages conveyed: "I've got a dick, c'mon c'mon hurry up!"
I felt that he would be content to just chat and do nothing more, or to
chat for as long as it took me to make up my mind. That helped. The
conversation did turn sexual quickly, but there was a safe, SSG-like
feeling about it.
2) He looked at my profile from time to time and asked specific
questions about my preferences and experiences. Again it seemed he was
paying attention and not just sending the same message to every new girl
out there.
Hm, I guess those are the only two relevant points. In sum, he seemed
relaxed and respectful. He was even better in person.
If I were you, I wouldn't give up just yet.
Jana
jenniannie
Don't be like everyone else who is out to "lose' their virginity, like
it is something bad, a disease. Treat your virginity as something
special to be only given to the best applicant. Don't give it to the
first one who's interested either, date/chat with a few worthy girls.
Jennifer
toramjero
The problem is that, at 29, it feels like a disease (for men and
women). You feel unattractive and rejected, which is actually a fact:
you are unattractive (in the sense that you never attracted anyone).
That, in turns, lowers your self-esteem or even makes you depressive.
The comments of your peers, if they get wind of your situation, is not
going to improve things.
I understand what you mean when you write "something special to be
only given to the best applicant", and I agree that it makes some
sense to not try to loose your virginity with anyone... at the age of
15. But, when you are 29, it is probably high time to lower your
standards.
In fact, people in that situation don't want to get rid of their
virginity. They want to get rid of that feeling of rejection and
unattrativeness. And that is a real problem.
Denny Wheeler
wrote:
>The web didn't exist when I lost my virginity. :)
Nor (for me, anyway) the Arpanet, Usenet--not even the microprocessor.
There were transistors...
--
"Every single religion that has a monotheistic god
winds up persecuting someone else."
-Philip Pullman
-denny-
(not as curmudgeonly as I useta be)
JustGB
<den...@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net> wrote:
> On 1 Dec 2008 21:24:15 GMT, Irfon-Kim Ahmad <ir...@ambienautica.com>
> wrote:
>
> >The web didn't exist when I lost my virginity. :)
>
> Nor (for me, anyway) the Arpanet, Usenet--not even the microprocessor.
>
> There were transistors...
Which helped provide lovely background music.....
illecebra
> On Dec 2, 5:28 am, jenniannie <youngwrite...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 30, 5:25 pm, Erieite <AllNightE...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I've posted in several different ways on various social networking
>> > sites to try and find a female partner to help me lose my virginity,
>> > but I'm not having any success. (I'm a 29 year old male, by the way)
<snip>
>> Don't be like everyone else who is out to "lose' their virginity, like
>> it is something bad, a disease. Treat your virginity as something
>> special to be only given to the best applicant. Don't give it to the
>> first one who's interested either, date/chat with a few worthy girls.
<snip>
> The problem is that, at 29, it feels like a disease (for men and women).
> You feel unattractive and rejected, which is actually a fact: you are
> unattractive (in the sense that you never attracted anyone). That, in
> turns, lowers your self-esteem or even makes you depressive. The
> comments of your peers, if they get wind of your situation, is not going
> to improve things.
>
> I understand what you mean when you write "something special to be only
> given to the best applicant", and I agree that it makes some sense to
> not try to loose your virginity with anyone... at the age of 15. But,
> when you are 29, it is probably high time to lower your standards.
>
> In fact, people in that situation don't want to get rid of their
> virginity. They want to get rid of that feeling of rejection and
> unattrativeness. And that is a real problem.
I don't do internet dating, so feel free to take what I have to say with
a grain of salt, but as a woman with an eye out for new partners, I can
say that yours is a truly self-defeating attitude.
One of my former (only former due to distance, I'd love to be with him
again) sweeties was a 20-something virgin. As far as I can tell,
virginity never bothered him. After his incredible intelligence, it was
his easygoing, confident, and open nature that attracted me to him. I
loved spending time with him, and though things got physical, we didn't
sleep together (his choice -- I thank goodness I'm poly or I might have
gone out of my mind). It hasn't come up lately, so I don't know if he's
still a virgin. It hasn't come up because that arbitrary designation
holds no meaning for either of us.
I know someone who may become a 30-something virgin the way he's going.
This post reminded me of him. This guy is in his late 20's. He *reeks*
of insecurity, desperation, clinginess, dependency. He has many
attractive qualities, but I'd never even consider dating him unless he
got his head together.
He's one of these guys who sees women as unapproachable, even scary. I'm
pretty sure I'm his only female friend, and he does act uncomfortable
around me when the other guys aren't there. He almost never makes a
first move with anyone, and on the rare occassion he does it is so
nervous and overthought that it's offputting. He drives potential
partners away by being clingy, jealous, and constantly in need of
reassurance.
Even as an acquaintance he's a little like that -- self deprecating, not
acting as if he believes we're equals, acting nervous, acting how he
thinks people want him to act rather than thinking about what he wants or
likes doing, feels hurt and rejected by any little thing -- he reads
rejection into my not wanting to talk on the phone or IM because I'm busy
at the moment, declining an invitation to go out, or going out somewhere
without inviting him.
These attitudes just aren't functional, and they won't attract anyone who
is likely to be a worthwhile partner.
So, change the attitude.
--illecebra
Denny Wheeler
With that wonderful 2 1/2 cm speaker!!
Curse Of Millhaven
As someone who hasn't had any action in a long, long time - those
feelings tend to come back rather quick.
illecebra
> On Dec 5, 1:03 am, toramjero <toramj...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> The problem is that, at 29, it feels like a disease (for men and
>> women). You feel unattractive and rejected, which is actually a fact:
>> you are unattractive (in the sense that you never attracted anyone).
>> That, in turns, lowers your self-esteem or even makes you depressive.
>> The comments of your peers, if they get wind of your situation, is not
>> going to improve things.
>>
>> I understand what you mean when you write "something special to be only
>> given to the best applicant", and I agree that it makes some sense to
>> not try to loose your virginity with anyone... at the age of 15. But,
>> when you are 29, it is probably high time to lower your standards.
>>
>> In fact, people in that situation don't want to get rid of their
>> virginity. They want to get rid of that feeling of rejection and
>> unattrativeness. And that is a real problem.
>
> As someone who hasn't had any action in a long, long time - those
> feelings tend to come back rather quick.
I don't get it...I really don't. Divorce, work, being a newly single
mom, and living in a small town where I'm related to half the people and
no one here is really my type anyway have all contributed to my not
having sex for over a year. I miss sex, but I can't imagine feeling any
less desirable for not having had any in a while.
Perhaps a less fragile ego, some philosophy that pegs your self-worth on
something less transient than your recent sex life, is the answer.
--illecebra
Curse Of Millhaven
A year is nothing. A girlfriend for a short time as a teenager then a
few one night stands over the following decades. I already know I am a
weirdo most women don't want anything to do with and have grown
comfortable with that. Just pointing out to the OP that having sex
ibce isn't going to really change the way he feels about himself.
christina
Hire a professional.
toramjero
But that is different. You think that those men are not your type, so
you are not interested in them. You are not seeking. You don't feel
rejected. The o.p. is seeking, yet nobody answers. He feels rejected
by everyone. So it's no wonder that his self-esteem becomes low.
It is not really about sex. It is about asking for human contact and
not getting any. It is about rejection.
I will take a parallel to show what I mean. Imagine that you would
want to learn to dance. You need a partner. You register to a dance
forum or a dance school, post an inquiry with you photo and expects
that someone will show up. You post a few messages to men looking for
a partner who appear to be compatible (height and dancing style).
You get no answer. For months. Men never contact you, don't answer
your enquiries, some immediately block your messages. Don't you think
that after months of this treatment you would start to wonder what is
wrong with you?
This is the problem with internet dating. To men they give the
illusion that seeking a sex partner is as appropriate as looking for a
dance partner. On the dating sites everyone needs a partner, both
parties are interested in the exchange and get something out of it. It
seems logical to have the same expectations: that you will find a few
prospective partners, meet to see if you get along (dance or sexual
preferences) and probably find one with whom you could share some
enjoyable time together.
If you do not agree about this parallel, I would like to hear about
your arguments.
In any case, seeking a dance partner is very different to seeking a
sex partner. Seeking a dance partner is socially acceptable. You can
do it in the open, you can go directly to a prospective partner and
ask. Your friends won't ridicule you if you do. Seeking a sex partner
(directly) is not socially acceptable. The internet only made it
possible because it gives a veil of anonymity.
Don't you think that men seeking sex are the object of ridicule,
disgust or outrage? Or do you think that it is perfectly acceptable
for most people that a man could simply ask for sex, no strings
attached? I would also like to hear your opinion on that part.
As a man, you can go to a woman, chat a little bit and ask her whether
she likes a dance. After that dance either of you may decide that the
other is a good dancer and continue, or mutter an excuse if your feet
have been repetitively trampled. But you can't go to a woman, chat a
bit and suggest to go to bed and see whether you both are sexually
compatible.
Internet dating looks as if it would make that simple process
possible. It only makes the first step possible (directly asking), but
it does not make it any more acceptable.
Women (most of them) apparently want something different. What they
really want, I don't know and I suspect that they do not really know
themselves either.
In any case, most of them are not prepared to take an active part in
seeking, they expect to be found. There are many more men than women
on sex dating sites. And, from your post, you do not seem prepared to
take an active part either. You say you have not had sex for over a
year and that you miss it. If you miss it, why don't you do anything
to change the situation, if I may ask? You may think that most men in
your own town do not suit your tastes, but what talks against
organizing a vacation or a week end in a bigger city to find a
suitable person? There certainly are solutions to be found if you are
missing sex, aren't there? Why do nothing?
illecebra
> On Dec 26 2008, 5:48 pm, illecebra <illece...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>> I don't get it...I really don't. Divorce, work, being a newly single
>> mom, and living in a small town where I'm related to half the people
>> and no one here is really my type anyway have all contributed to my not
>> having sex for over a year. I miss sex, but I can't imagine feeling
>> any less desirable for not having had any in a while.
>>
>> Perhaps a less fragile ego, some philosophy that pegs your self-worth
>> on something less transient than your recent sex life, is the answer.
>>
>> --illecebra
>
> But that is different. You think that those men are not your type, so
> you are not interested in them. You are not seeking. You don't feel
> rejected. The o.p. is seeking, yet nobody answers. He feels rejected by
> everyone. So it's no wonder that his self-esteem becomes low.
>
> It is not really about sex. It is about asking for human contact and not
> getting any. It is about rejection.
I still don't get it -- if one didn't have friends and other loved ones,
the rejection feeling might make sense, but it's also likely to be a
result of some behavior or personality trait that is likely to be harmful
to others. All (functional) people want some form of human contact, and
going a while without sex, while quite irksome, isn't -- in a mentally
healthy person -- cause for depression or self-loathing.
> I will take a parallel to show what I mean. Imagine that you would want
> to learn to dance. You need a partner. You register to a dance forum or
> a dance school, post an inquiry with you photo and expects that someone
> will show up. You post a few messages to men looking for a partner who
> appear to be compatible (height and dancing style).
>
> You get no answer. For months. Men never contact you, don't answer your
> enquiries, some immediately block your messages. Don't you think that
> after months of this treatment you would start to wonder what is wrong
> with you?
No, I wouldn't. I actually took a dance class in college -- I didn't
find a partner (dance classes have there had more women than men) so I
approached and hooked up with a female friend who also lacked a partner.
Much fun was had by all. I don't put the onus on others to track me down
and make me happy. It's called a healthy approach to human relationships.
> This is the problem with internet dating. To men they give the illusion
> that seeking a sex partner is as appropriate as looking for a dance
> partner. On the dating sites everyone needs a partner, both parties are
> interested in the exchange and get something out of it. It seems logical
> to have the same expectations: that you will find a few prospective
> partners, meet to see if you get along (dance or sexual preferences) and
> probably find one with whom you could share some enjoyable time
> together.
>
> If you do not agree about this parallel, I would like to hear about your
> arguments.
I agree that that is what is portrayed by dating sites' ad departments --
but frankly, if one believes everything one sees in an advertisement, one
is just too stupid to live. In a society with fewer warning labels, such
a person probably would not have made it to 30.
> In any case, seeking a dance partner is very different to seeking a sex
> partner. Seeking a dance partner is socially acceptable.
<snip>
> Don't you think that men seeking sex are the object of ridicule, disgust
> or outrage? Or do you think that it is perfectly acceptable for most
> people that a man could simply ask for sex, no strings attached? I would
> also like to hear your opinion on that part.
I think that if one goes about it in a sensible way, it's not that big a
deal. I learned the hard way in college that my tendency to be direct
scared men off. By the end of my freshman year I had gotten the hang of
finding what I wanted without frightening the target of my interest.
> As a man, you can go to a woman, chat a little bit and ask her whether
> she likes a dance. After that dance either of you may decide that the
> other is a good dancer and continue, or mutter an excuse if your feet
> have been repetitively trampled. But you can't go to a woman, chat a bit
> and suggest to go to bed and see whether you both are sexually
> compatible.
No, but I've had gentlemen I've recently met ask me about my sexual
preference, chat a bit to see if we seem compatible, and know that within
a meeting or two we may wish to end up in bed. I've also had men bring
sex up in a way that demonstrates a lack of basic social skills, or some
belief or pattern that makes me certain we won't be compatible (or that
he might be dangerous).
> Internet dating looks as if it would make that simple process possible.
> It only makes the first step possible (directly asking), but it does not
> make it any more acceptable.
See my earlier statement about being too stupid to live if you believe
their ad companies' claims.
> Women (most of them) apparently want something different. What they
> really want, I don't know and I suspect that they do not really know
> themselves either.
Human beings, regardless of sex, are different from one another in their
needs/wants. That's why finding someone with whom one is compatible can
be a challenge at times.
> In any case, most of them are not prepared to take an active part in
> seeking, they expect to be found. There are many more men than women on
> sex dating sites.
I take "them" to be "women" here? If so, I'd say that is true of far
fewer women in America than the stereotype might suggest. Women go to
the bars, clubs, and other trashy meat markets as much as men. Women
tend to beg friends for fix-ups more than men, and I think their using
internet dating less is due more to safety concerns than anything else.
> And, from your post, you do not seem prepared to take an active part
>either. You say you have not had sex for over a year and that you miss
> it. If you miss it, why don't you do anything to change the situation,
<snip>
Simply put, I have limited time and resources, and for now there are
other, more important things taking them up. My chosen career takes a
lot of time and effort at this stage, and my child needs just as much of
my attention if not more. I could be offered a near-perfect partner
right now, and I'm not sure I'd begin a relationship -- I just don't have
time to maintain one.
--illecebra
toramjero
> On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 06:58:12 -0800, toramjero wrote:
> > On Dec 26 2008, 5:48 pm, illecebra <illece...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
> <snip>
> >> I don't get it...I really don't. Divorce, work, being a newly single
> >> mom, and living in a small town where I'm related to half the people
> >> and no one here is really my type anyway have all contributed to my not
> >> having sex for over a year. I miss sex, but I can't imagine feeling
> >> any less desirable for not having had any in a while.
>
> >> Perhaps a less fragile ego, some philosophy that pegs your self-worth
> >> on something less transient than your recent sex life, is the answer.
>
> >> --illecebra
>
> > But that is different. You think that those men are not your type, so
> > you are not interested in them. You are not seeking. You don't feel
> > rejected. The o.p. is seeking, yet nobody answers. He feels rejected by
> > everyone. So it's no wonder that his self-esteem becomes low.
>
> > It is not really about sex. It is about asking for human contact and not
> > getting any. It is about rejection.
>
> I still don't get it -- if one didn't have friends and other loved ones,
> the rejection feeling might make sense, but it's also likely to be a
> result of some behavior or personality trait that is likely to be harmful
> to others. All (functional) people want some form of human contact, and
> going a while without sex, while quite irksome, isn't -- in a mentally
> healthy person -- cause for depression or self-loathing.
>
I don't exactly understand what you don't get... I don't know whether
the o.p. has friends or not, but I suppose so. Yet his problem is that
he is looking for a sex partner and can't find one. Because he
mentioned internet dating, I understand that he tried to contact women
on dating sites and was rejected repetitively. He may still have
friends who appreciate his conversation (for example), from the fact
that he was repetitively rejected by a number of persons, all of whom
are felt to come to the same conclusion independently, the logical
conclusion is that he is not attractive sexually. People tend to value
the idea of being sexually attractive in our culture (and probably in
others as well), so I can understand that he resents the idea of not
being sexually attractive.
> > I will take a parallel to show what I mean. Imagine that you would want
> > to learn to dance. You need a partner. You register to a dance forum or
> > a dance school, post an inquiry with you photo and expects that someone
> > will show up. You post a few messages to men looking for a partner who
> > appear to be compatible (height and dancing style).
>
> > You get no answer. For months. Men never contact you, don't answer your
> > enquiries, some immediately block your messages. Don't you think that
> > after months of this treatment you would start to wonder what is wrong
> > with you?
>
> No, I wouldn't. I actually took a dance class in college -- I didn't
> find a partner (dance classes have there had more women than men) so I
> approached and hooked up with a female friend who also lacked a partner.
> Much fun was had by all. I don't put the onus on others to track me down
> and make me happy. It's called a healthy approach to human relationships.
>
Your particular solution would only be applicable if the o.p. was
gay.
> > This is the problem with internet dating. To men they give the illusion
> > that seeking a sex partner is as appropriate as looking for a dance
> > partner. On the dating sites everyone needs a partner, both parties are
> > interested in the exchange and get something out of it. It seems logical
> > to have the same expectations: that you will find a few prospective
> > partners, meet to see if you get along (dance or sexual preferences) and
> > probably find one with whom you could share some enjoyable time
> > together.
>
> > If you do not agree about this parallel, I would like to hear about your
> > arguments.
>
> I agree that that is what is portrayed by dating sites' ad departments --
> but frankly, if one believes everything one sees in an advertisement, one
> is just too stupid to live. In a society with fewer warning labels, such
> a person probably would not have made it to 30.
>
>
Point taken, but advertisement exists because most people believe in
what it says. Now, you may argue that most people are too stupid to
live, but this is probably outside of the forum charter.
>
> > In any case, seeking a dance partner is very different to seeking a sex
> > partner. Seeking a dance partner is socially acceptable.
> <snip>
> > Don't you think that men seeking sex are the object of ridicule, disgust
> > or outrage? Or do you think that it is perfectly acceptable for most
> > people that a man could simply ask for sex, no strings attached? I would
> > also like to hear your opinion on that part.
>
> I think that if one goes about it in a sensible way, it's not that big a
> deal. I learned the hard way in college that my tendency to be direct
> scared men off. By the end of my freshman year I had gotten the hang of
> finding what I wanted without frightening the target of my interest.
>
Frankly, I don't know. Many women behave, at least superficially, as
if there was no sensible way to ask. You may remember "curiousperson"
who posted here a month ago for example. I should add that I have no
idea what is a sensible way to ask myself, btw.
> > As a man, you can go to a woman, chat a little bit and ask her whether
> > she likes a dance. After that dance either of you may decide that the
> > other is a good dancer and continue, or mutter an excuse if your feet
> > have been repetitively trampled. But you can't go to a woman, chat a bit
> > and suggest to go to bed and see whether you both are sexually
> > compatible.
>
> No, but I've had gentlemen I've recently met ask me about my sexual
> preference, chat a bit to see if we seem compatible, and know that within
> a meeting or two we may wish to end up in bed. I've also had men bring
> sex up in a way that demonstrates a lack of basic social skills, or some
> belief or pattern that makes me certain we won't be compatible (or that
> he might be dangerous).
>
Lack of basic social skills might very well be an issue with the o.p.
> > Internet dating looks as if it would make that simple process possible.
> > It only makes the first step possible (directly asking), but it does not
> > make it any more acceptable.
>
> See my earlier statement about being too stupid to live if you believe
> their ad companies' claims.
>
> > Women (most of them) apparently want something different. What they
> > really want, I don't know and I suspect that they do not really know
> > themselves either.
>
> Human beings, regardless of sex, are different from one another in their
> needs/wants. That's why finding someone with whom one is compatible can
> be a challenge at times.
>
> > In any case, most of them are not prepared to take an active part in
> > seeking, they expect to be found. There are many more men than women on
> > sex dating sites.
>
> I take "them" to be "women" here? If so, I'd say that is true of far
> fewer women in America than the stereotype might suggest. Women go to
> the bars, clubs, and other trashy meat markets as much as men. Women
> tend to beg friends for fix-ups more than men, and I think their using
> internet dating less is due more to safety concerns than anything else.
>
I am not so sure. The o.p. is looking for no-strings sex, not a
lifelong romance. I don't think that there are that many women, even
in America, who are looking for this type of relationships.
> > And, from your post, you do not seem prepared to take an active part
> >either. You say you have not had sex for over a year and that you miss
> > it. If you miss it, why don't you do anything to change the situation,
>
> <snip>
>
> Simply put, I have limited time and resources, and for now there are
> other, more important things taking them up. My chosen career takes a
> lot of time and effort at this stage, and my child needs just as much of
> my attention if not more. I could be offered a near-perfect partner
> right now, and I'm not sure I'd begin a relationship -- I just don't have
> time to maintain one.
>
So in effect what you are saying is that sex is less important (to you
- at this moment) than these "more important things", that it goes
somewhere near the bottom of the pile of things to do. I think that
the opposite is true for the o.p., that sex is very near the top of
things to do. That is why he is frustrated.
> --illecebra
illecebra
<snip>
> the o.p. has friends or not, but I suppose so. Yet his problem is that
> he is looking for a sex partner and can't find one. Because he mentioned
> internet dating, I understand that he tried to contact women on dating
> sites and was rejected repetitively. He may still have friends who
> appreciate his conversation (for example), from the fact that he was
> repetitively rejected by a number of persons, all of whom are felt to
> come to the same conclusion independently, the logical conclusion is
> that he is not attractive sexually. People tend to value the idea of
> being sexually attractive in our culture (and probably in others as
> well), so I can understand that he resents the idea of not being
> sexually attractive.
I think that doing the same things over and over and expecting different
results is stupid, if not insane. Figure out why you are being
unsuccessful, and change it. Sometimes it's a lack of social skills,
sometimes it's an incompatible dating pool, sometimes it's poor self-
esteem, sometimes it's inappropriate expectations... there are billions
of people on this planet, if one can't ever make a connection, there's
generally a reason. If one can't figure out the reason, perhaps
counseling is required.
Depression is not functional -- feelings of depression, low self-esteem,
etc make one a bad partner. There are those out there who haven't
learned this and will partner such a person anyway, but I wouldn't
recommend it. Perhaps rather than whining and feeling depressed, the OP
should address the problem?
>> No, I wouldn't. I actually took a dance class in college -- I didn't
>> find a partner (dance classes have there had more women than men) so I
>> approached and hooked up with a female friend who also lacked a
>> partner. Much fun was had by all. I don't put the onus on others to
>> track me down and make me happy. It's called a healthy approach to
>> human relationships.
>>
>>
> Your particular solution would only be applicable if the o.p. was gay.
My point was not that I found a partner of my same sex, my point was that
when one strategy failed, I drastically altered it and found success,
rather than taking a passive approach.
>> I think that if one goes about it in a sensible way, it's not that big
>> a deal. I learned the hard way in college that my tendency to be
>> direct scared men off. By the end of my freshman year I had gotten the
>> hang of finding what I wanted without frightening the target of my
>> interest.
>>
> Frankly, I don't know. Many women behave, at least superficially, as if
> there was no sensible way to ask. You may remember "curiousperson" who
> posted here a month ago for example. I should add that I have no idea
> what is a sensible way to ask myself, btw.
As in all relationship standards, this varies from person to person.
People tend to haplessly wander around with a single relationship formula
in their heads that they expect all people to conform to. It's stupid,
but it seems in my experience to be true. Trying to find out what
someone's style or ruleset is before trying to get close to them saves a
lot of frustration on all sides.
Talking to someone about relationships in a non-personal context is a
great idea to see what kind of frame they use to understand
relationships, what they find interesting or offensive, etc. For
example, watching a movie with a person, one might comment on or ask a
question about the behavior of some character. From that person's
reaction, one can judge their frame of mind about such things.
You see, most socially inept people either tend to fail utterly to
communicate their desires and expectations (leaving the other party in
for unpleasant surprises down the road), or try to get too personal and
too invested too fast (which will send up huge danger flags in anyone not
so unskilled or unbalanced). Learning about someone without getting too
personal lets one assess compatibility, and if the basic compatibility is
there, only then does it make sense to get to know someone better.
> Lack of basic social skills might very well be an issue with the o.p.
I wholeheartedly agree.
> I am not so sure. The o.p. is looking for no-strings sex, not a lifelong
> romance. I don't think that there are that many women, even in America,
> who are looking for this type of relationships.
It's a more popular model among men than women, simply due to social
conditioning. Men who have casual sex are treated as studs, conquerors,
strong ideals; women who have casual sex are sluts, dirty, even
treacherous in the eyes of others.
There are women who enjoy casual sex, but they tend to either be women of
such low self-esteem that they use sex to feel approval they lack
elsewhere, or women of such high self-esteem that they don't give a hoot
about the stereotypes.
The o.p. combined with a similarly fragile person is a scary thought; and
the latter option, a confident and together woman, isn't likely to want
someone crippled by low self-esteem.
> So in effect what you are saying is that sex is less important (to you -
> at this moment) than these "more important things", that it goes
> somewhere near the bottom of the pile of things to do. I think that the
> opposite is true for the o.p., that sex is very near the top of things
> to do. That is why he is frustrated.
Then he should seek counseling, because he seems to be taking a very
dysfunctional approach, something that a USENET group is certainly not
qualified to help him fix.
There are no "good" reasons for depression. There are understandable
ones, but their only advantage is being more sympathetic to others.
Depression and low-self esteem are not functional, and don't lend the
person feeling them to functional relationships, be they casual or
serious.
Having read the OP, I would not go anywhere near him because he seems
like someone who doesn't know what he wants, cannot be trusted to assert
himself, and might be prone to unpredictable, possessive, and/or
dangerous behavior due to becoming overly invested in a relationship
compared to his partner. He may not be any of those things -- but he
sets off enough warnings that I would not want to get close enough to
find out. I'm not sure there is a way, other than serious counseling, to
learn not to make potential partners feel that way.
--illecebra
toramjero
Certainly. Now I understand why we do not seem to understand each
other. You said that you did not get why the o.p. was depressive. I
tried to explain what probably caused these feelings of depression.
But what you meant was that depression was an hindrance in finding a
partner and that the o.p. should not be depressive if he wants to be
successful in his search. This is true, but depression is not a
choice. And even if there is no other way for the o.p. to find a
realtively balanced relationship than trying to have his depression
cured, treatment is not always easy and sometimes even fails.
> >> No, I wouldn't. I actually took a dance class in college -- I didn't
> >> find a partner (dance classes have there had more women than men) so I
> >> approached and hooked up with a female friend who also lacked a
> >> partner. Much fun was had by all. I don't put the onus on others to
> >> track me down and make me happy. It's called a healthy approach to
> >> human relationships.
>
> > Your particular solution would only be applicable if the o.p. was gay.
>
> My point was not that I found a partner of my same sex, my point was that
> when one strategy failed, I drastically altered it and found success,
> rather than taking a passive approach.
>
And my point is that the o.p. has tried various strategies, found them
to fail, and has run out of ideas. What is he to do?
(Of course what he is to do is to address depression, which is the
underlying problem, I know. Hindsight is everything.)
That's interesting. So, in effect, you are saying that the stereotypes
did not change. If they did not, I don't think that there are more
women looking for casual sex than some years ago. Stereotypes are just
an image of average social behavior, maybe distorted but an image
nevertheless. If the behavior changes, the stereotype changes (as
happened with homosexuality in the past 20 years). If male-female
stereotypes did not change, I think that the average male-female
behavior did not change much either.
christina
<snip>
Some people, perhaps many, are screwed from the get-go as far as the
ability to form and maintain satisfactory personal relationships is
concerned. In some cases depression is lifelong and intractable, and
there are other conditions too that are just as serious (PD comes to
mind).
There is a pervasive belief in western culture that good personal
relationships are essential for a meaningful and happy life. Few
people, if any, can have it all, and what it takes to maintain good
relationships, amongst those who can, also precluded them from
investing time and energy into other fulfilling aspects of life. In
fact it's only been in the last couple of hundred years, in Western
societies, that even marriage has been seen as emotionally fulfilling,
as in romantic love. Family, maybe, one's spouse, no.
I think the OP should consider devoting his life to something more
accessible than the romantic ideal, and probably find a lot more
satisfaction and fulfillment than he hopes to find in a good
relationship.
toramjero
That is a very, very hard advice to give on scant evidence. Anyway,
the o.p. did not ask about relationships but about casual sex. He
justs wants to find a partner to "lose his virginity".
christina
As I think I said before, hire a pro and have a good time.
toramjero
I am not so sure. Finding a pro who gives good service does not appear
to be very easy. Long ago I tried to find one and couldn't. The main
problem was that the pros I found obviously disliked men and sex so
much that I felt I would be very, very ashamed of myself if I used
their services. It looked like paying to rape someone. And I am not
even talking about the ones who were obviously forced to do that job
to feed a drug addiction. Prostitution is a lot less glamorous than
what movies like "pretty woman" would have you think. OTOH, I did not
try prostitution in the US.
So, supposing that prostitution is out of the equation, do have an
alternative idea?
christina
Swingers club?
BTW, saying that prostitution is out of the equation is a bit like
saying you need some plumbing done but plumbers are out of the
equation. Not a very realistic premise, IMO.
toramjero
You think that sex is like plumbing?
christina
If you take a dance class, you don't need any particular emotional
connection with a partner (fellow classmate, whatever) to engage in a
satisfying experience. Sex can be like that. If you want an ongoing
emotional relationship, different matter. The OP wants to lose his
viginity. A plumber will do fine.
toramjero
But would you bring your business to plumbers who would obviously
mistreat their employees and hold them in a state equivalent to
slavery? Would you bring your business to a plumber who would
obviously work to get his next fix? I hope not. Besides, I don't think
that mistreated or drugged employees would do a very good job and that
is a special problem if that job is your first contact with sex.
This is basically the problem I encountered why I tried prostitution
about 20 years ago. It felt as if the prostitutes were exploited and/
or on drugs. And even if I am looking for basic sex and not romance, I
have a problem with that. Notwidstanding the fact that I would have
found it impossible to get excited enough to be able to perform. As I
said, it felt like paying to rape someone and that bothered me. I did
not do it.
As a side note, the situation is a vicious circle. I suppose that
those prostitutes only got customers who were not bothered if sex felt
like rape. And that is not a way to appreciate sex or men in general.
This was street prostitution, I have been told that escorting may be
different. But escorting is surprisingly expensive (basic services
start around 400 Euros I think) and not everyone has the financial
means. And, because it is expensive and not entirely legal, it
attracts people who will try to abuse the situation. As a customer, it
is like buying the proverbial cat in a bag: you don't know what you
get before laying the money on the table. So if the o.p. goes that
route, we are talking about a first non-sexual meeting to check the
situation, and maybe more if the escort does not seem to be actually
willing to offer a decent quality of service, then a sex meeting.
Repeat with another one, to have a better idea of the range of
variations, and we are talking more than 1000$. I don't know about the
o.p., but this is not an amount of money that I would have been able
to spend at 24 (when I was still a virgin).
Now, I would like to adress another point: the idea that the o.p.
would be unsuited to relationships. Granted, some parts of the post
seem to indicate depression. But a young man can find himself still a
virgin at 24 wondering what his wrong with him when he learns that the
average age of first intercourse is around 16. I know because I was
once this young man. Does this make me unsuited to relationships? I
have been married 20 years to the apparent satisfaction of my wife, so
probably not.
But I am not able to advise the o.p., or a young man who would be in
the same situation than I was. I don't know what caused the interest
of my future wife (future at that time). I did not meet her just to
"lose my virginity" and, in retrospect, I think that I should have
tried to gain a bit more sexual experience before settling down. But I
have no idea how I could have done it. If I were in the same
situation, I would not know what to do. I would probably try internet
dating, as the o.p. did and find out that it does not work. What else?
Dance classes? I have tried that when I was around 20 and found them
to be a waste of time and efforts. Sport activities? I also tried that
at 20, and it did not allow me to meet a girlfriend either.
So does anyone have some practical advice? I am out of ideas. Or maybe
it would be easier if the o.p. were female? The question is simple:
imagine that you have a young man or woman who is still a virgin at
25. Let's say it is mainly because of long and difficult studies, too
much work, difficult parents or an environment were people of their
sex were in large majority (e.g. studying as a nurse or child care for
a woman). He or she starts a new life with a new job in a new city.
Now, this person would like to gain some experience with about 3 to 6
partners to have better ideas of what he or she likes and what it
means to be "sexually compatible". Nothing really extraordinary, most
adults have 3 to 6 partners before they settle down. What is he or she
to do? What would you advise?
Anonymous Jack
> But would you bring your business to plumbers who would obviously
> mistreat their employees and hold them in a state equivalent to
> slavery?
I've dealt with service people who were unhappy with their jobs. Not
quite slavery, but they were not thrilled to be there. For the most
part, despite the attitude, they were able to do their jobs.
> that is a special problem if that job is your first contact with sex.
De[ends on what the OP was actually looking for. I suppose that if I
was merely paying a prostitute for sex just to see what it felt like,
or just to get it over with, the experience probably would not have
hurt me in the long run. Might not be the best of memories or the
proudest of moments, though
> I don't know what caused the interest
> of my future wife (future at that time). I did not meet her just to
> "lose my virginity" and, in retrospect, I think that I should have
> tried to gain a bit more sexual experience before settling down. But I
> have no idea how I could have done it. If I were in the same
> situation, I would not know what to do.
Sounds very much that she found you, liked you, and claimed you :)
that's probably fairly common
> I would probably try internet
> dating, as the o.p. did and find out that it does not work. What else?
IMO, sites specifically for dating are a waste of time - no personal
experience, though. A good friend of mine got got into a book
discussion a while ago in a book forum or chat room, took a discussion
with a person out of the forum/chat room to email/chat. He quit his
job here in the US and moved to Australia to marry her before
Christmas. A lot of these things come up when you least expect it.
> imagine that you have a young man or woman who is still a virgin at
> 25. Let's say it is mainly because of long and difficult studies, too
> much work, difficult parents or an environment were people of their
> sex were in large majority (e.g. studying as a nurse or child care for
> a woman). He or she starts a new life with a new job in a new city.
>
> Now, this person would like to gain some experience with about 3 to 6
> partners to have better ideas of what he or she likes and what it
> means to be "sexually compatible". Nothing really extraordinary, most
> adults have 3 to 6 partners before they settle down. What is he or she
> to do? What would you advise?
First, get the issue of "virginity" out of their minds. People worry
about that too much. Just relax, go out with groups and individuals
with whom you have common interests and/or hobbies. Have fun. It may
lead to sex, it may not.
toramjero
> On Jan 23, 5:03 am, toramjero <toramj...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > But would you bring your business to plumbers who would obviously
> > mistreat their employees and hold them in a state equivalent to
> > slavery?
>
> I've dealt with service people who were unhappy with their jobs. Not
> quite slavery, but they were not thrilled to be there. For the most
> part, despite the attitude, they were able to do their jobs.
>
> > that is a special problem if that job is your first contact with sex.
>
> De[ends on what the OP was actually looking for. I suppose that if I
> was merely paying a prostitute for sex just to see what it felt like,
> or just to get it over with, the experience probably would not have
> hurt me in the long run. Might not be the best of memories or the
> proudest of moments, though
>
> > I don't know what caused the interest
> > of my future wife (future at that time). I did not meet her just to
> > "lose my virginity" and, in retrospect, I think that I should have
> > tried to gain a bit more sexual experience before settling down. But I
> > have no idea how I could have done it. If I were in the same
> > situation, I would not know what to do.
>
> Sounds very much that she found you, liked you, and claimed you :)
That is quite possible.
> that's probably fairly common
>
> > I would probably try internet
> > dating, as the o.p. did and find out that it does not work. What else?
>
> IMO, sites specifically for dating are a waste of time - no personal
> experience, though. A good friend of mine got got into a book
> discussion a while ago in a book forum or chat room, took a discussion
> with a person out of the forum/chat room to email/chat. He quit his
> job here in the US and moved to Australia to marry her before
> Christmas. A lot of these things come up when you least expect it.
>
> > imagine that you have a young man or woman who is still a virgin at
> > 25. Let's say it is mainly because of long and difficult studies, too
> > much work, difficult parents or an environment were people of their
> > sex were in large majority (e.g. studying as a nurse or child care for
> > a woman). He or she starts a new life with a new job in a new city.
>
> > Now, this person would like to gain some experience with about 3 to 6
> > partners to have better ideas of what he or she likes and what it
> > means to be "sexually compatible". Nothing really extraordinary, most
> > adults have 3 to 6 partners before they settle down. What is he or she
> > to do? What would you advise?
>
> First, get the issue of "virginity" out of their minds. People worry
> about that too much. Just relax, go out with groups and individuals
> with whom you have common interests and/or hobbies. Have fun. It may
> lead to sex, it may not.
Indeed it may not. I know a fair number of men who never married or
apparently had any girl friend in their life. Most of them regret not
having been able to have a family and children, but what can you do?
Anyway. I thought about the o.p. question again, and I think that I
have an idea why it is a question which comes regularly. It is
relatively easy to find a woman seeking marriage. I know from
experience that there is a large number of women around 35-40 who
really would like to find a husband and have children before it is too
late. There is also a large number of women slightly above that age
who are divorced with children and would like to remarry.
The first sort are women with some kind of university diploma and a
good job. The reason that they can't find a man is, in their own
words, that they can't find the time. They work hard for their career.
They work in the evenings and often the week-ends as well. Obviously,
if they don't even make the time free to find the man they really
want, I suppose that they did not invest much time in casual sex
either. That removes them from the dating pool.
The second sort usually have far less education (or they would not
have married early), but just as little time. This is also a very
common complain amongst them. They need time to take care of their
children, and usually had to get a job to be able to afford the flat
or house they live in. They also have very little time left to invest
in casual sex.
Of course, there are other women. For example, I noticed that the few
young women doing clerical work on contracts where I work all have
some kind of boyfriend and change their boyfriend regularly. But they
don't invest much time at work: they have no career perspective, and
no incentive to stay late or work on week-ends. They also stopped
studying relatively early. When they don't have a boy friend, they
usually share a flat with a friend, simply because they can't afford
anything better. That alone gives them more social contacts that
someone who lives alone in their own flat.
Maybe a good rule of thumb in the modern world is that if you can
afford your own flat, you don't have the time to find a sex partner.
The young men who come regularly to complain that they cannot find a
partner appear to be relatively educated in their majority. The ones I
know have a university or engineering diploma and the work which goes
with it. As a rule of thumb, people tend to seek partners amongst
their social circles, so they are the pendant to the women of the
first kind. The ones with no time.
This is a sex positive group, and even here we find women who say that
they have gone months without sex, because they lacked the time.
Illecebra said she had not have sex for a year. If it is common in a
sex positive group, I think that it is not rare in the general
population. But for each woman who has not had sex for a year, there
is also a man in the same situation, because there are the same
numbers of men and women.
So, seeking a woman to "lose one's virginity" may prove to be an
hopeless search indeed. The only solution would seem to go directly to
the next step: marry and found a family. There are plenty of women
seeking a lifelong partner. Sex will be part of the equation in the
end, of course, but it will be for a bit more than simply "lose the
virginity". Usually it takes weeks or even months to get to know each
others, so that the woman is convinced of the man's commitment. The
sex may or may not be good, but it is only a small part of the
equation anyway and you will only find out when it is too late to
split without major emotional drama.
Elizabeth
> On Dec 2, 5:28 am, jenniannie <youngwrite...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 30, 5:25 pm, Erieite <AllNightE...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I've posted in several different ways on various social networking
> > > sites to try and find a female partner to help me lose my virginity,
> > > but I'm not having any success. (I'm a 29 year old male, by the way)
>
> > > Of the women who've responded and seem not to be spambots, I reply to
> > > their initial email, then I never hear from them again. I don't know
> > > what I'm doing wrong, and I don t really want to go into the details
> > > of what I wrote to each of them. So, could anyone who has had some
> > > success in this area tell me what worked for them at least?
>
> > > Thanks in advance for any insight you can lend.
>
> > Don't be like everyone else who is out to "lose' their virginity, like
> > it is something bad, a disease. Treat your virginity as something
> > special to be only given to the best applicant. Don't give it to the
> > first one who's interested either, date/chat with a few worthy girls.
> > Jennifer
>
> The problem is that, at 29, it feels like a disease (for men and
> women). You feel unattractive and rejected, which is actually a fact:
> you are unattractive (in the sense that you never attracted anyone).
I don't think it is as simple as this. A person may well have
attracted another person but couldn't "read" the signs, as it were.
When I was much younger, about 18 yrs, I simply didn't know that I was
attractive to men. I didn't understand the language of attraction. I
didn't have sex until I was 21, around the age when I started
understanding this language.
It wasn't that I was unattractive (in the sense of never attracting
anyone), it was because I didn't know I was attractive and didn't know
I was attractive to others and couldn't read the signs nor respond to
them in that way.
I agree, it's best to go out and experience sex (even with a
prostitute), by 29 yrs. It may be that the experience of sex works to
initiate the beginning of understanding mutual sexual attraction
(maybe, maybe).
> That, in turns, lowers your self-esteem or even makes you depressive.
> The comments of your peers, if they get wind of your situation, is not
> going to improve things.
>
> I understand what you mean when you write "something special to be
> only given to the best applicant", and I agree that it makes some
> sense to not try to loose your virginity with anyone... at the age of
> 15. But, when you are 29, it is probably high time to lower your
> standards.
>
> In fact, people in that situation don't want to get rid of their
> virginity. They want to get rid of that feeling of rejection and
> unattrativeness. And that is a real problem.
Yes, I agree.
rdu...@pdq.net
A good rule of thumb is that 90% of females are sincerely attracted
sexually to at most 10% of males in any given setting. Humans, elk
herds, lion prides, I doubt if it changes much. When females are
convinced that they do not much need the commitment of a specific guy,
they tend to openly display their hyper-selectivity especially when
they are young and hot and everyone wants them. So they party with a
small group of men and ignore the rest. The downside for society is
that men eventually catch on and conclude that almost every female
wants them or none really do. Not much getting married happens in that
environment.
For better or worse, the modern West is deep into this transformation.
Commiting to a 30 something woman who has already gone on record as
being unattracted (sexually) to your type of guy - well, you get to
support her and some kids that may or may not be related to you but
you can see the problem with actual sex happening.
toramjero
That is quite interesting. How did you find out about the signs, then?
toramjero
I have seen this theory floating on the web. It is devoid of
scientific basis. There are plenty of mamal species where far more
than 10% of the males contribute to reproduction, even amongst the
primate species closely related to humans.
> So they party with a
> small group of men and ignore the rest. The downside for society is
> that men eventually catch on and conclude that almost every female
> wants them or none really do. Not much getting married happens in that
> environment.
> For better or worse, the modern West is deep into this transformation.
> Commiting to a 30 something woman who has already gone on record as
> being unattracted (sexually) to your type of guy - well, you get to
> support her and some kids that may or may not be related to you but
> you can see the problem with actual sex happening.
I was just remarking that a woman who can go for months or even years
without sex to concentrate on more important things to her like her
career, is probably not going to invest much in sex after marriage
either as soon as more important things to her are going to gain
priority, for example raising children.
Elizabeth
I grew up, I suppose. I'd gone to an all-girls school and though I
attended a university where men and women intermingled (and I had
several men friends), it wasn't until I was in third year at uni that
I started being aware of the signs and signals of sexual attraction.
I note here, that I had a boyfriend at the ages of 16, 17 & 18, but
our relationship was very chaste. We held hands and kissed and that's
all. We did not have sex. It was literally at the age of 21 when I
first had sex and became aware of the subtle interactions that occur
with sexual attraction.
How did I become aware of these subtle signs? Perhaps it was a mixture
of things: growing up, experiencing more of the world (I went to
Europe on a university study tour over the summer break, during which
I had my 21st birthday), reading literature (I was deeply impressed by
D. H. Lawrence's book 'The Virgin and the Gypsy'), talking with my
friends (male and female), starting to notice female-male interactions
around me, and the like.