books on reconciling big sexual differences ?

[ne...@celticbear.com]

It's cliche, but I have a rediculously HUGE sexual appetite, and my
wife has pretty much none. We both eagerly want to find a compromise.

I'm finding a lot of books on Amazon about increasing women's
sexuality, but nothing on men who want sex too much. And some books
that appear to address marital sexual differences, but seemingly just
increasing it...not ways to come to a similar level or find compromises
or an equal level in between.

Any suggestions for books on these topics?
Thanks!
Liam

[Ben]

Would having her walk around nude while you masturbate all you want be
an option? That and maybe you could make a close up video of her
masturbating with vibrators while moaning sexily.

Maybe if you walked around naked (if she likes this?) then that would
get her thinking more about sex, and more about you, and then problem
solved.

[Elizabeth]

> ne...@celticbear.com wrote:
> > It's cliche, but I have a rediculously HUGE sexual appetite, and my
> > wife has pretty much none. We both eagerly want to find a compromise.
> >
> > I'm finding a lot of books on Amazon about increasing women's
> > sexuality, but nothing on men who want sex too much. And some books
> > that appear to address marital sexual differences, but seemingly just
> > increasing it...not ways to come to a similar level or find compromises
> > or an equal level in between.
> >
> > Any suggestions for books on these topics?
> > Thanks!
> > Liam
> >

Ben wrote:
> Would having her walk around nude while you masturbate all you want be
> an option? That and maybe you could make a close up video of her
> masturbating with vibrators while moaning sexily.
>
> Maybe if you walked around naked (if she likes this?) then that would
> get her thinking more about sex, and more about you, and then problem
> solved.
>

Being naked isn't necessarily a turn-on in itself. My partner and I are
nudists and wander around naked all day in our house and garden.
Nakedness isn't the thing that gets us going sexually. Even before I
was a practicing nudist, naked bodies did not have the same level of
attraction as it appears they are for you. In fact, I have always been
more sexually interested in guys fully dressed in suits than near or
complete nakedness.

[Fred....@tds.net]

My experience with self-help books in this area is that they are not
very helpful. Most books on this subject toe the politically correct
line, and recommend that you just get used to not having sex as much,
or using other intimacy substitutes.

Basically, it is much easier to increase a drive than to decrease it.
For example, for eating, you can get used to eating more than you
should very easily. However, if you don't eat enough there is nothing
that will prevent you from getting hungry. Disturbing your sleep
cycles, starvation or being depressed will reduce your sex drive, but
those are not particularly good solutions to your problem.

Usually the best way to work on this is to make sure that both partners
really understand the others' needs. If your wife is just saying "you
don't need sex that much" then she is not understanding your needs. In
addition to talking, it will help if you make sex about more than just
sex: intimacy (massages, kissing, foreplay) or fun (go wild; have a
costume party, get messy, etc.). Try talking during sex. In general,
try to make things unscripted. This may increase your wife's
willingness to have sex even in the absence of a strong drive. Remove
any pressures, as well. Does she feel she has to have an orgasm each
time? If her drive is low, this expectation may make things unpleasant.
You may also have to get used to masturbating more often. However,
don't think that this means you have to take your sex drive into the
closet; try masturbating with her, for example. It will not be healthy
for the marriage if your wife gets the feeling that she does not have
to deal with your sex drive.

[suzee]

Ben wrote:
> Would having her walk around nude while you masturbate all you want be
> an option? That and maybe you could make a close up video of her
> masturbating with vibrators while moaning sexily.
>
> Maybe if you walked around naked (if she likes this?) then that would
> get her thinking more about sex, and more about you, and then problem
> solved.

Watching a man masturbate might be more of a turn *off* for some women
than a turn on, thougn I'm not. Many women don't understand men's need
for masturbation and it could increase feelings of inadequacy and
resentment about sex.

sue

[Sarah]

"Visi Caulk Mah Pnats" <T...@T.com> said:

>how do you incompatible people end up with each other?

We end up together because love is not just about putting tab A into
slot B.

People meet and fall in love in many if not most cases before they are
having sex, at least regularly enough to determine if there is a large
appetite difference.

And once you're in love, it's very difficult to make a choice to break
off the relationship when one discoveres there's a problem in one
facet of an otherwise blissful romance.

It's hard, too, for a higher libido partner to feel right about making
"demands" for as much sex as they feel they need, since society and
low libido partners in general seem to believe that wanting more sex
is a Bad Thing and inconsiderate of ones partner.
--
If you want to contact me directly, please replace TwoUnderscores with... well, two underscores.
Ta :)
S_C, on Tom's side of Thirty.

[darklily]

Visi Caulk Mah Pnats wrote:

> how do you incompatible people end up with each other?
>

> --

>From personal experience I have found that sexual appetite isn't a
constant. I have been with (dating and married time together) my DH for
18 years. I am still fairly young (34)...we just started early and
stayed together. But in all those years neither of us have had a
constant level. Things in life change. One partner can go through a
stressful, demanding period at work, the other goes back to school,
pregnancy and children can have an affect on appetite (particularly if
the woman is breastfeeding a child). So, what was equally matched at
one time can change for understandable reasons. The problem really
seems to occur when partners stop communicating. Not just about sexual
needs, but emotional support needs, help with household duties,
child-rearing, etc. It can be very easy to make a situation worse by
taking it personally, that is making the problem about oneself rather
than understanding where one's partner is coming from. It's then very
easy for each person to become defensive.

Just my 2 cents,

darklily (excuse the terrible grammar/punctuation in places...I'm
typing very fast and trying to also write a report for work....eeeep)

[Jajaloo]

<ne...@celticbear.com> wrote in message
news:1133063276.8...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

I have a ridiculous libido myself.

My wife was hard to crack. She's the aloof WASP type and didn't seem to like
being touched much. Eventually, I learned that she loooves foot massages and
also scalp massages. I think everybody has some place they like being
touched. Things are pretty well reconciled now. I tuck her in every night
with a foot rub and she makes sure that I am taken care of in the morning.

Best of luck.
(;-)}

John

[S.M.Serba]

"suzee" <suz...@imbris.com> wrote in message
news:dmcnfs$h94$1...@domitilla.aioe.org...

Myself, touching and stroking my man, and the yummy noises he makes
*because* I'm touching him is a *huge* turn on. Because he appreciates my
touch.

[Nanook]

And I think I need to point out that this "need" varies amoung men;
personally I'm only interested in masturbation as a last resort when a willing
partner is not available.

--
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Eskimo North Linux Friendly Internet Access, Shell Accounts, and Hosting.
Real human assistance, not telephone trees or foreign script readers.
See our web site: http://www.eskimo.com/ (206) 812-0051 or (800) 246-6874.

[Brews...@cfl.rr.com]

Here is my two cents, I hope it will help you - though there is no hope
for me. I have a huge sex drive, and my wife has none. We go for three
month or more, then a crappy "hurry lets get it over with" from her. I
have tried everything for years, and the last time we discussed our
non-existant sex life I was told basically to get used to it. Well one
thing I have learned is that she feels like she is not pretty, and
sexy, and all that. "oh, I'm and old woman" she says - no shit we're
almost 50! She is overweight somewhat - she could loose 30 pounds, but
she still looks good in the right clothes. And she looks OK naked. Hey,
I'm not the best looking guy naked. If she would just have sex with
me..... I tell her these things, and try to make her feel better about
herself but to no avail.

Anyway, after years of trying I have given up. I took off my wedding
ring and put it in the drawer. My wife and I still live together and
are still are married, but she feels more like a room mate that I share
a house with (oh, except she takes all my frigging money). These days I
go out on the internet looking for someone to have a fling with - more
like a steady fling, more like a "friend with benefits" or a "F**k
Buddy" and when the kids are grown and out of the house I will get
divorced.

Anyway, try that angle with the not feeling sexy - your wife may not
tell you that's the reason. Hope this helps

[suzee]

You have a very good understanding of the dynamics of a relationship. It
is more than just mismatched libidoes and the stresses of life very much
affect our sexual desires. As long as partners can and do talk openly
about *all* their stresses and feelings they can weather the periods
where they feel their needs aren't being met.

sue

[ne...@celticbear.com]

Visi Caulk Mah Pnats wrote:

> Sarah wrote:
>
> > "Visi Caulk Mah Pnats" <T...@T.com> said:
> >
> > > how do you incompatible people end up with each other?
> >
> > We end up together because love is not just about putting tab A into
> > slot B.
> >
> > People meet and fall in love in many if not most cases before they are
> > having sex, at least regularly enough to determine if there is a large
> > appetite difference.
> >
> > And once you're in love, it's very difficult to make a choice to break
> > off the relationship when one discoveres there's a problem in one
> > facet of an otherwise blissful romance.
> >
> > It's hard, too, for a higher libido partner to feel right about making
> > "demands" for as much sex as they feel they need, since society and
> > low libido partners in general seem to believe that wanting more sex
> > is a Bad Thing and inconsiderate of ones partner.
>

> is it really a blissful romance.
> People should wait longer to get married.
>

FYI, we waited nearly 3 years to get married.
And despite our sexual differences, we're intellectual equals, share
many of the same interests, and hav ethe same sense of humor. Qualities
that are great for a successful, long-term (lifetime) relationship.
Yeah, the sexual compatibility is not there, but no relationship is
100% perfect. I'd rather work on that problem, and have someone as my
life-partner who's otherwise my perfect match.
=)

Liam

[Baerana]

As a woman with a ridiculously huge sex drive, I found "The Sex Starved
Marriage" - BOTH partners must read it - very helpful

--
-Baerana
http://www.baerana.com/

livejournal - http://baerana.livejournal.com/
ICQ# - 73330878
AIM - Baerana
MSN IM - m...@baerana.com
jabber - bae...@jabber.org

[The Dave]

In message <3v23ssF...@individual.net> Baerana
<use...@baerana.com> wrote:

>ne...@celticbear.com wrote:
>> It's cliche, but I have a rediculously HUGE sexual appetite, and my
>> wife has pretty much none. We both eagerly want to find a compromise.
>>
>> I'm finding a lot of books on Amazon about increasing women's
>> sexuality, but nothing on men who want sex too much. And some books
>> that appear to address marital sexual differences, but seemingly just
>> increasing it...not ways to come to a similar level or find compromises
>> or an equal level in between.
>>
>> Any suggestions for books on these topics?
>> Thanks!
>> Liam
>>
>
>As a woman with a ridiculously huge sex drive, I found "The Sex Starved
>Marriage" - BOTH partners must read it - very helpful

Thanks, I'll add this to my reading list.

Plus I might scare someone at Amazon by ordering a book instead of just
feeding my DVD habit.

[Tom Allen]

Baerana wrote:

> As a woman with a ridiculously huge sex drive, I found "The Sex Starved
> Marriage" - BOTH partners must read it - very helpful

Wow - I searched for online reviews and foundn a fantastic summary of
the book which I'm going to post here, simply because it's got such
great discussion points.

http://www.libidomag.com/nakedbrunch/sexstarved.html

Tips for Nourishing a Sex-Starved Marriage

By Michele Weiner-Davis,
author of The Sex-Starved Marriage: A Couple's Guide to Boosting Their
Marriage Libido

1] Don't ignore the problem
Too often people just stick their heads in the sand, hoping the
problems between them will just disappear. If you do this, the only
thing that will disappear is your intimacy and friendship. You need to
face the issue and do something about it.

Many people avoid taking action because they're embarrassed about low
sexual desire. This is especially true for men. Low sexual desire in
men is America's best kept secret. Millions of men, just like millions
of women, aren't always in the mood for sex. And it's not always a
matter of sexual performance problems. Men avoid sex for many of the
same reasons women do. Frequently, relationship issues are major
libido busters. But since men aren't talking, they're also not seeking
help. There's another problem with the lack of openness about male low
desire. Since no one is talking, the women in these marriages wonder,
"What's wrong with me,?" "I'm the only woman in the world whose
husband isn't chasing her around the living. I must be unattractive or
unlovable." Get help

2] Quit playing the Blame Game
You need to stop blaming each other for being different. It's not a
matter of who is right and who is wrong. Unlike vitamins, there are no
daily minimum requirements to insure a healthy sex life. The only way
you can really screw up is to tell your more sexual spouse, "It's your
problem, deal with it." A sexual desire gap is a couple's problem and
both spouses need to change.

For the more sexual spouse:
a) Tune into your spouse's turn-on's
Too often more sexual spouses do what turns them on, not their
spouses. They buy sex toys, sex movies, and lingerie. This frequently
backfires because what often turns on the less sexual person are the
things that happen outside the bedroom- an offer to get up early with
the kids so that the other spouse can sleep in, encouragement to have
a guy's weekend away to relieve stress. Do what turns your spouse on,
not you.

b) Use the "F-word"
Talk about feelings. Because the more sexual spouse feels angry and
resentful, they often don't share their true underlying feelings of
hurt, despair and loneliness. But doing so often prompts more
compassion and empathy.and sexuality.

For the less sexual spouse
a) Use the "Nike Solution"- Just do it.
If you're not in the mood, do it anyway. Millions of people discover
that even if they're not in the mood for sex when they start making
love, once they get into it, they really and truly enjoy themselves.
New research suggests that for half the population, sexual desire
doesn't just happen, you have to make it happen. And being receptive
to your spouse's advances is often the best way to jumpstart desire.

b) Take the great American sex challenge.
If you haven't been desiring sex because your spouse is irritable or
unkind, it may be because s/he is feeling rejected. Do an experiment.
For two weeks, make a commitment to making sex a bigger priority.
Initiate sex more often, get out of your sweat suits and into
something revealing, leave sexy notes around the house, tell your
spouse how great s/he looks...and watch what happens. You can
transform a marriage through touch and sensuality. I guarantee you
will see remarkable changes in your spouse. Send the results of your
"research" to www.sexstarvedmarriage.com

About the Author
Michele Weiner Davis is the author of The Sex-Starved Marriage: A
Couple's Guide to Boosting Their Marriage Libido, The Divorce Remedy,
Divorce Busting, A Woman's Guide to Changing Her Man, Change Your Life
and Everyone in It, and In Search of Solutions. A regular guest on
Oprah, 48 Hours, the Today show, and CBS This Morning, she created
Keeping Love Alive, a PBS broadcast seminar. An internationally
renowned seminar leader and marriage therapist in private practice,
she lives with her family in Illinois.

For more information, please visit www.sexstarvedmarriage.com

I should point out that "Higher a" item seems to be the "trade off"
that we're discussing in the Asexuality thread. Sometiems a trade-off
isn't so much buying sex as buying time or environment or attitude.

Tom

--
"Eat your weiners in buns, no condiments. Anything else is wrong."
-- Hank

[Tom Allen]

Baerana wrote:

> As a woman with a ridiculously huge sex drive, I found "The Sex Starved
> Marriage" - BOTH partners must read it - very helpful

Wow. Major wow!

Okay, okay - I know that I already replied to this, but it's 5 am and
I've been up since 3 because I can't sleep because of yet another talk
with my wife over the state of our relationship. So I've been surfing
all the reviews on this book, and I found the entire first chapter (as
a teaser, of course) on
http://divorcebusting.com/db.mv?ARTID=sex_ch1
and as I started reading it I was almost completely knocked over by
how closely Weiner-Davis seemed to have my situation pegged.

I mean, I had long since agreed with Fred's post earlier: I've read a
bunch of self-help books and found most of them to be trite or so
overly general as to be almost worthless. Worse (for me) there is a
whole category of Christian-oriented books, many of which are in our
house, most of which suggest that it's a woman's duty to open her legs
as she opens her heart because men are just built differently and we
need more sex. <bangs head on desk>

The first chapter addresses some things that we chat about all the
time around here, but what floored me was her public acknowledgement
of the one-sidedness of that unwritten contract:

"I mentioned before that I’ve been a marriage therapist for a very
long time and I can tell you without hesitation that if you continue
to look at the differences in your levels of sexual desire as your
spouse’s problem rather than as a couple’s problem, you are courting
disaster. Unless your spouse is super-human with morals made of steel,
s/he may not be willing to resist the temptation of having an
extra-marital affair. Late nights at the office with a seductive
co-worker, an attentive ear, effusive ego-building compliments may be
just the kindling your spouse needs to start a fiery sexual
relationship with someone other than you. And if you haven’t
experienced infidelity, it’s not something you want to do. Having an
unfaithful spouse is right up there on the short list of life’s worst
experiences. It’s incredibly painful. Couples in my practice often
tell me that healing from infidelity is one of the most challenging
feats they’ve ever accomplished.

I tell you this not to scare you or make you feel threatened. I’m on
your side. I want to you to be fully informed about what your spouse
might be feeling or thinking so that you can prevent unnecessary
heartache. I also urge you to consider the unfairness of the tacit
agreement you have had with your spouse so clearly pointed out in Dr.
Pat Love’s excellent book, The Truth about Love. It goes something
like this: “I know you’re sexually unhappy. Although I don’t plan on
doing anything about it, I still expect you to remain faithful.”
Hello, can you see what’s wrong with this picture? "

It's way too early in the mroning for me to have any fresh insights,
but this dovetails nicely with the Asexuality thread.

[Fred....@tds.net]

Tom Allen wrote:
> Baerana wrote:
>
> > As a woman with a ridiculously huge sex drive, I found "The Sex Starved
> > Marriage" - BOTH partners must read it - very helpful
>
> Wow - I searched for online reviews and foundn a fantastic summary of
> the book which I'm going to post here, simply because it's got such
> great discussion points.
>
> http://www.libidomag.com/nakedbrunch/sexstarved.html

Fantastic link, Tom. I have been looking for a therapy handout to use
when working with couples in this position, and this set of points
would work perfectly. Based on my personal experience, it seems
perfectly on the money. It is very similar to what I have done when my
spouse has been in her 'no sex please' periods (successfully). I have
to admit that I have had far less success with clients with this
approach, but that is another issue (people usually don't seek marital
therapy until it is really too late to help, so the divorce rate is
around 80% of clients).

[suzee]

Tom Allen wrote:
> Baerana wrote:
>
>>As a woman with a ridiculously huge sex drive, I found "The Sex Starved
>>Marriage" - BOTH partners must read it - very helpful
>
> Wow. Major wow!
>
> Okay, okay - I know that I already replied to this, but it's 5 am and
> I've been up since 3 because I can't sleep because of yet another talk
> with my wife over the state of our relationship. So I've been surfing
> all the reviews on this book, and I found the entire first chapter (as
> a teaser, of course) on
> http://divorcebusting.com/db.mv?ARTID=sex_ch1
> and as I started reading it I was almost completely knocked over by
> how closely Weiner-Davis seemed to have my situation pegged.

[snip the excerpt]

So you're going to buy the book, read it and leave it lying around the
house for your wife to pick up, yes?

sue

[Tom Allen]

<snerk>

I'm assuming that you're being facesh... fasciti... feshe... sarcastic.

No, I send her a link to the chapter, plus a link to the other book
reviews with a short note that it seemed better than some of the other
ones that we'd picke dup over the years. If she finds the first chapter
interesting we'll just order the book.

Some years ago a friend recommended to her one of those Mars/Venus
books, so she bought it and suggested that we read it together. Being a
pretty fast reader, I skimmed it, and then went back with a higghlighter
to note what I thought would be good discussion points. She got about
halfway through it and lost interest. I'm wondering now if it wasn't
because of the whole intimacy thing rather than the sex thing. That is,
the book ostensibly dealt with sex in a marriage, but there was a lot of
stuff on building intimacy (some folks like that, you know), and looking
back on it, it seems that she's got some very serious issues not so much
with the sexual aspects, but with the intimate aspects: talking,
personal sharing, trust, etc.

Tom

--
"I hate those self-referential puns," said Tom swiftly.

[suzee]

Tom Allen wrote:
> suzee wrote:
>
>>Tom Allen wrote:
>>
>>>Baerana wrote:
>>>
>>>>As a woman with a ridiculously huge sex drive, I found "The Sex
>>>>Starved Marriage" - BOTH partners must read it - very helpful
>>>
>>>Wow. Major wow!
>>>
>>>Okay, okay - I know that I already replied to this, but it's 5 am and
>>>I've been up since 3 because I can't sleep because of yet another talk
>>>with my wife over the state of our relationship. So I've been surfing
>>>all the reviews on this book, and I found the entire first chapter (as
>>>a teaser, of course) on
>>>http://divorcebusting.com/db.mv?ARTID=sex_ch1
>>>and as I started reading it I was almost completely knocked over by
>>>how closely Weiner-Davis seemed to have my situation pegged.
>>
>>
>>[snip the excerpt]
>>
>>So you're going to buy the book, read it and leave it lying around the
>>house for your wife to pick up, yes?
>
> <snerk>
>
> I'm assuming that you're being facesh... fasciti... feshe... sarcastic.

Not really. Just trying to be cute. ;)

> No, I send her a link to the chapter, plus a link to the other book
> reviews with a short note that it seemed better than some of the other
> ones that we'd picke dup over the years. If she finds the first chapter
> interesting we'll just order the book.
>
> Some years ago a friend recommended to her one of those Mars/Venus
> books, so she bought it and suggested that we read it together. Being a
> pretty fast reader, I skimmed it, and then went back with a higghlighter
> to note what I thought would be good discussion points. She got about
> halfway through it and lost interest. I'm wondering now if it wasn't
> because of the whole intimacy thing rather than the sex thing. That is,
> the book ostensibly dealt with sex in a marriage, but there was a lot of
> stuff on building intimacy (some folks like that, you know), and looking
> back on it, it seems that she's got some very serious issues not so much
> with the sexual aspects, but with the intimate aspects: talking,
> personal sharing, trust, etc.

Umhuh, you mentioned that the other day in your post. I wonder if she's
ready to tackle intimacy now that it's been brought to her attention.

sue

[christina]

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 13:17:55 -0500, Tom Allen <taomli...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Some years ago a friend recommended to her one of those Mars/Venus
>books, so she bought it and suggested that we read it together. Being a
>pretty fast reader, I skimmed it, and then went back with a higghlighter
>to note what I thought would be good discussion points. She got about
>halfway through it and lost interest. I'm wondering now if it wasn't
>because of the whole intimacy thing rather than the sex thing. That is,
>the book ostensibly dealt with sex in a marriage, but there was a lot of
>stuff on building intimacy (some folks like that, you know), and looking
>back on it, it seems that she's got some very serious issues not so much
>with the sexual aspects, but with the intimate aspects: talking,
>personal sharing, trust, etc.
>

Tom, the picture you paint of your wife screams *child abuse* to me.
I've been there. Nothing obvious, just a degree of neglect of
emotional needs that left me with just the issues you mentioned. You
might also like to glance at *Adult Children of Abusive Parents* by
Steven Farmer, and leave that lying around on the coffee table.

christina

[suzee]

I think you may have something there... the emotional neglect part, not
outright physical abuse.

sue

[Stephanie]

"Sarah" <STwoUnde...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:p38ko11tb0s5ktc80...@4ax.com...

> "Visi Caulk Mah Pnats" <T...@T.com> said:
>
>>how do you incompatible people end up with each other?
>
> We end up together because love is not just about putting tab A into
> slot B.
>
> People meet and fall in love in many if not most cases before they are
> having sex, at least regularly enough to determine if there is a large
> appetite difference.
>
> And once you're in love, it's very difficult to make a choice to break
> off the relationship when one discoveres there's a problem in one
> facet of an otherwise blissful romance.
>
> It's hard, too, for a higher libido partner to feel right about making
> "demands" for as much sex as they feel they need, since society and
> low libido partners in general seem to believe that wanting more sex
> is a Bad Thing and inconsiderate of ones partner.

I feel like a traitor to my gender, but I could not stay in love with
someone that I did not have a pretty major desire for sex with or with whom
there was a major incompatibility. Anbd we broke the whole order of
operations you mention above about love and sex.

[christina]

Of the four categories of child abuse (I think they are physical
abuse, sexual abuse, physical neglect and emotional neglect) many
consider the last one to be the most damaging, and the hardest to
recognize.

Rene Spitz did some research in the 30s (I think) into an orphanage
where 30% of the babies died despite having their physical needs met.
He pinpointed emotional starvation (not forming bond with caregiver)
as the main culprit.

In my case my mother wanted another child (she already had one), but
she didn't want two more (I'm a twin). Also, being prem I was in
hospital the first ten days of my life. My sister got home earlier
and mum had already bonded with her (according to my shrink). In
somewhat difficult social circumstances I was given the clear message
that I was *in excess of requirements*. I can't remember my mother
ever doing anything nice with me - no cuddles, no games, not even the
occasional smile. But I was fed, clothed, etc. . She would be
horrified to hear the term child abuse applied to this. However, I
know that my emotional needs were not met, from my earliest memories.
I'm only now, at 55, working through intimacy and trust issues. Too
many people don't recognize this kind of damage, and don't take it
seriously enough.

christina

[suzee]

From what I've observed of human behavior, I'd agree with that.

> Rene Spitz did some research in the 30s (I think) into an orphanage
> where 30% of the babies died despite having their physical needs met.
> He pinpointed emotional starvation (not forming bond with caregiver)
> as the main culprit.

I've heard of that study.

> In my case my mother wanted another child (she already had one), but
> she didn't want two more (I'm a twin). Also, being prem I was in
> hospital the first ten days of my life. My sister got home earlier
> and mum had already bonded with her (according to my shrink). In
> somewhat difficult social circumstances I was given the clear message
> that I was *in excess of requirements*. I can't remember my mother
> ever doing anything nice with me - no cuddles, no games, not even the
> occasional smile. But I was fed, clothed, etc. . She would be
> horrified to hear the term child abuse applied to this. However, I
> know that my emotional needs were not met, from my earliest memories.
> I'm only now, at 55, working through intimacy and trust issues. Too
> many people don't recognize this kind of damage, and don't take it
> seriously enough.

<nod>

I have a friend who was raised by a severely depressed mother (who may
have borderline personality disorder) and the family was abandoned by a
manic-depressive, alcoholic father. In addition to not being paid
attention to, my friend was sexually molested by neighbors and then her
stepfather between the ages of 2 and 10 or so. She feels like she meant
nothing to her mother (she may be the product of a rape of her mother,
by her father), that she wasn't anymore important than a piece of
furniture, except for performing household chores. She and her older
brothers lived in an unheated, unisulated attic, while their younger
sister was the pampered princess. Everyone else in the family either
doesn't talk to each other about anything, or pretends things were just
fine. She's has problems with depression, alcholism, and finding
boundaries.

sue

[Tom Allen]

Oh, there's no question that there were some thigns out of whack when
she was a child. Her father was hospitalized with some kind of mental or
emotional problem when she was young, and her mother was alchoholic.
They split when she was about 9, and she says that she and her sisters
and brothers moved quite a bit because her mother ended up drinking the
rent money. There's other stuff in there, too, mostly emotional and some
physical neglect.

And like with so many other situations, if I were watching my situation
from teh outside, I'd probably spot a dozen things right away; but from
the inside things somehow don't "click" until you're able to take a step
back for some perspective.

Tom

--
Q - Why did the chicken cross the Moebius strip?
A - To get to the other... uh ... er ...

[christina]

Unfortunately, people (including myself) who face these circumstances
develop ways of coping that result in a significantly reduced quality
of life (ongoing depression in my case). However, the alternative
experience is catastrophic non-coping, so it's very hard to challenge a
reasonably secure position, however uncomfortable. Better the devil
you know....

christina

[Delila]

"christina" <chri...@alphalibrae.com> wrote in message
news:tlepo11hdcaapqg8f...@4ax.com...

I have issues like that, too. I was physically and sexually abused and
emotionally neglected. I wish I had the money for a good shrink. These
things tend to affect people for the rest of their lives.

D.

[ChrisB]

You might try a local university, if you live close enough to one. They
often have students learning, with professor supervision, that work on a
much lower scale than the professionals in the same area. I'm seeing
someone for five dolars a week.

[Delila]

"ChrisB" <cmbr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:BLgjf.4424$_k3.3804@dukeread01...

>
> You might try a local university, if you live close enough to one. They
> often have students learning, with professor supervision, that work on a
> much lower scale than the professionals in the same area. I'm seeing
> someone for five dolars a week.

Thanks for the tip. I'll look into it.

D.

[Tom Allen]

christina wrote:
> Tom Allen wrote:

>>And like with so many other situations, if I were watching my situation
>>from teh outside, I'd probably spot a dozen things right away; but from
>>the inside things somehow don't "click" until you're able to take a step
>>back for some perspective.
>>
>
> Unfortunately, people (including myself) who face these circumstances
> develop ways of coping that result in a significantly reduced quality
> of life (ongoing depression in my case). However, the alternative
> experience is catastrophic non-coping, so it's very hard to challenge a
> reasonably secure position, however uncomfortable. Better the devil
> you know....

My wife seemes to have learned how to cope by becoming very function- or
task-oriented. She's always the one planning or organizing something; it
seems to give her some sense of being in control of a situation. It
keeps her from getting depressed, although I've recently begun to
understand that for her, it also keeps her from having to deal with the
emotional aspects of day-to-day living. If she keeps bbusy, then she
doesn't feel like she's missing anything, and she doesn't have time to
dwell on things over which she has no (or had no) control.

Unfortunately, it seems to have become so ingrained in her that she now
claims to have no idea how to be intimate. This coiuld be one
explanation for some of her inappropriate responses to me, and is very
likely why she doesn't respond to emotional or personal issues that I
raise. Even when she appears to agree with what I'm saying, she never
goes back to think about anything I've said, and the subject never comes
up again - unless of course I have to bring it up because it remaiend
unresolved.

[Stephanie]

"Visi Caulk Mah Pnats" <T...@T.com> wrote in message
news:dmcsu2$6i5$0...@pita.alt.net...

> suzee wrote:
>
>> Ben wrote:
>> > Would having her walk around nude while you masturbate all you want
>> > be an option? That and maybe you could make a close up video of
>> > her masturbating with vibrators while moaning sexily.
>> >
>> > Maybe if you walked around naked (if she likes this?) then that
>> > would get her thinking more about sex, and more about you, and
>> > then problem solved.
>>

>> Watching a man masturbate might be more of a turn off for some women

>> than a turn on, thougn I'm not. Many women don't understand men's
>> need for masturbation and it could increase feelings of inadequacy
>> and resentment about sex.
>>
>> sue
>

> it's hot
>

It's not just me then.

> --
>

[Stephanie]

<Fred....@tds.net> wrote in message
news:1133098880.4...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> ne...@celticbear.com wrote:
>> It's cliche, but I have a rediculously HUGE sexual appetite, and my
>> wife has pretty much none. We both eagerly want to find a compromise.
>>
>> I'm finding a lot of books on Amazon about increasing women's
>> sexuality, but nothing on men who want sex too much. And some books
>> that appear to address marital sexual differences, but seemingly just
>> increasing it...not ways to come to a similar level or find compromises
>> or an equal level in between.
>>
>> Any suggestions for books on these topics?
>

> My experience with self-help books in this area is that they are not
> very helpful. Most books on this subject toe the politically correct
> line, and recommend that you just get used to not having sex as much,
> or using other intimacy substitutes.
>
> Basically, it is much easier to increase a drive than to decrease it.
> For example, for eating, you can get used to eating more than you
> should very easily. However, if you don't eat enough there is nothing
> that will prevent you from getting hungry.

Well since you hbave it wrong for eating, then there is a decent chance yuou
could have it wrong for sex too. I find eating more to be difficult. To
train your body to be in the habit of eating less takes a little time, but
your stomach shrinks and presto! Body used to less.

> Disturbing your sleep
> cycles, starvation or being depressed will reduce your sex drive, but
> those are not particularly good solutions to your problem.
>
> Usually the best way to work on this is to make sure that both partners
> really understand the others' needs. If your wife is just saying "you
> don't need sex that much" then she is not understanding your needs. In
> addition to talking, it will help if you make sex about more than just
> sex: intimacy (massages, kissing, foreplay) or fun (go wild; have a
> costume party, get messy, etc.). Try talking during sex. In general,
> try to make things unscripted. This may increase your wife's
> willingness to have sex even in the absence of a strong drive. Remove
> any pressures, as well. Does she feel she has to have an orgasm each
> time? If her drive is low, this expectation may make things unpleasant.
> You may also have to get used to masturbating more often. However,
> don't think that this means you have to take your sex drive into the
> closet; try masturbating with her, for example. It will not be healthy
> for the marriage if your wife gets the feeling that she does not have
> to deal with your sex drive.
>

[ChrisB]

I could not afford to be seen for general anxiety disorder without the
services of the University students. Local mental health clinics are
also a good, and often overlooked, resource. I hope it helps.

[suzee]

Stephanie wrote:

> "Visi Caulk Mah Pnats" <T...@T.com> wrote:
>
>>suzee wrote:
>>
>>>Ben wrote:
>>>
>>>>Would having her walk around nude while you masturbate all you want
>>>>be an option? That and maybe you could make a close up video of
>>>>her masturbating with vibrators while moaning sexily.
>>>>
>>>>Maybe if you walked around naked (if she likes this?) then that
>>>>would get her thinking more about sex, and more about you, and
>>>>then problem solved.
>>>
>>>Watching a man masturbate might be more of a turn off for some women
>>>than a turn on, thougn I'm not. Many women don't understand men's
>>>need for masturbation and it could increase feelings of inadequacy
>>>and resentment about sex.
>>>
>>>sue
>>
>>it's hot
>
>
> It's not just me then.

Oh no, I like it too. Just sayin' some women wouldn't.

sue

[Norton]

In soc.sexuality.general Stephanie <Iwish...@noway.com> wrote:

>I feel like a traitor to my gender, but I could not stay in love with
>someone that I did not have a pretty major desire for sex with or with whom
>there was a major incompatibility. Anbd we broke the whole order of
>operations you mention above about love and sex.

That's interesting. May I ask why you feel like a
traitor to your gender if you need to have a major
desire for sex with your partner?

Or do I misunderstand.

Norton.

[JustGB]

No, don't worry. I love it too.

JustGB

[JustGB]

I could stay together and *loving* without too much or even any sex,
but it would rest on the friendship and respect and fondness I feel. I
really need the passion to stay *in love* I think.

Not sure what this has to do with gender (or being a traitor) unless
you are working under the premise that sex should not be important to a
woman. It is *very* important to many of us. Maybe we just don't talk
about it in public as much :-)

JustGB

[Tai]

Nope.

Tai

[Fred....@tds.net]

Stephanie wrote:
> <Fred....@tds.net> wrote in message
> news:1133098880.4...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > ne...@celticbear.com wrote:
> >> It's cliche, but I have a rediculously HUGE sexual appetite, and my
> >> wife has pretty much none. We both eagerly want to find a compromise.
> >>
> >> I'm finding a lot of books on Amazon about increasing women's
> >> sexuality, but nothing on men who want sex too much. And some books
> >> that appear to address marital sexual differences, but seemingly just
> >> increasing it...not ways to come to a similar level or find compromises
> >> or an equal level in between.
> >>
> >> Any suggestions for books on these topics?
> >
> > My experience with self-help books in this area is that they are not
> > very helpful. Most books on this subject toe the politically correct
> > line, and recommend that you just get used to not having sex as much,
> > or using other intimacy substitutes.
> >
> > Basically, it is much easier to increase a drive than to decrease it.
> > For example, for eating, you can get used to eating more than you
> > should very easily. However, if you don't eat enough there is nothing
> > that will prevent you from getting hungry.
>
>
> Well since you hbave it wrong for eating, then there is a decent chance yuou
> could have it wrong for sex too. I find eating more to be difficult. To
> train your body to be in the habit of eating less takes a little time, but
> your stomach shrinks and presto! Body used to less.

It rarely works like that. First, your body adds fat cells whenever you
exceed your basic requirements. These fat cells never go away, they
just deflate slightly when you don't eat as much. However, your body
interprets this as starving yourself, and your drive tends to go up
more. Second, very few people successfully can restrict their diet long
enough for their stomach to shrink. Third, social factors are far more
responsible for eating behavior in people than biological ones, and
they generally are out of the individual's control. Your drive goes up
in the presence of desireable food, and marketers are quite aware of
this. In every culture around the world, once calorie rich food is
plentiful, a large portion of the population quickly becomes
overweight.

I get the feeling that you said I was wrong because you feel it is easy
to calorie restrict. This does not mean that it is universally easy to
calorie retrict. Please correct me if there is some reason why you feel
this is a universal.

[Alexis]

Visi Caulk Mah Pnats wrote:

> suzee wrote:
>
> > Watching a man masturbate might be more of a turn off for some women
> > than a turn on, thougn I'm not. Many women don't understand men's
> > need for masturbation and it could increase feelings of inadequacy
> > and resentment about sex.
> >
> > sue
>
> it's hot
>

This reminds me of something I read the other day --

Apparently Paris Hilton is trying to copyright her infamous profound
expression: "That's hot," along the lines of Donald Trump copyrighting
"You're fired."

I think I shall copyright "Alexis in Texas"...

Alexis

[yer...@hotmail.com]

ne...@celticbear.com wrote:
> Visi Caulk Mah Pnats wrote:

> > Sarah wrote:
> >
> > > "Visi Caulk Mah Pnats" <T...@T.com> said:
> > >
> > > > how do you incompatible people end up with each other?
> > >
> > > We end up together because love is not just about putting tab A into
> > > slot B.
> > >
> > > People meet and fall in love in many if not most cases before they are
> > > having sex, at least regularly enough to determine if there is a large
> > > appetite difference.
> > >
> > > And once you're in love, it's very difficult to make a choice to break
> > > off the relationship when one discoveres there's a problem in one
> > > facet of an otherwise blissful romance.
> > >
> > > It's hard, too, for a higher libido partner to feel right about making
> > > "demands" for as much sex as they feel they need, since society and
> > > low libido partners in general seem to believe that wanting more sex
> > > is a Bad Thing and inconsiderate of ones partner.
> >

> > is it really a blissful romance.
> > People should wait longer to get married.
> >
>
> FYI, we waited nearly 3 years to get married.
> And despite our sexual differences, we're intellectual equals, share
> many of the same interests, and hav ethe same sense of humor. Qualities
> that are great for a successful, long-term (lifetime) relationship.
> Yeah, the sexual compatibility is not there, but no relationship is
> 100% perfect. I'd rather work on that problem, and have someone as my
> life-partner who's otherwise my perfect match.
> =)
>
> Liam

There is a saying: "New brooms sweep clean, but old brooms know all the
corners."
I agree with you on not trading in your partner for a new model.

"Never", "Always, " and other verbal generalisations are great
tempations for folks who are stuck in situations like yours, & who
can't see a silver lining to the dark cloud floating over their
marriage.

I find it strange that a couple that can find so much to like about
each other, doesn't desire to use every opportunity to shag.

However, perhaps that is what makes syncing differing sex drives such a
hard task.

Forgive me for sounding trite over the next few lines. I am just
thinking out loud.

Perhaps if the problem was redefined without the partner expectations
that marriage brings, some success might be had:

Example:
How do I get this "strange" woman who is not sexually interested in me
to repeatedly sleep with me?

If your goal's success is defined in personal performance outcome
terms:
(i.e. You got her to smile, relax, touch, kiss, or stay within arm
reach, more than you did last time), one could increase one's
specialised expertise in "Insert name of woman here."

Marriage provides an excellent environment for the implementation of
such a plan because you are bound to meet "Insert name of woman here,"
at least once for the day.

I must confess that I have not ever been married, BUT the challenge of
raising a woman's awareness (i.e. of me) to the point where her
interest in shagging goes from zero to off the charts would motivate me
"big time."

I would probably start paying a bit more attention, trying to notice
anything about her that might be helpful to my "secret plan".

(Yerodin rubbing hands together, while taking out notebook, pencil, &
key to the safe.)

Yerodin.

[JustGB]

At least yours is original.

JustGB

[christina]

Tom Allen wrote:

> christina wrote:
> >
> > Unfortunately, people (including myself) who face these circumstances
> > develop ways of coping that result in a significantly reduced quality
> > of life (ongoing depression in my case). However, the alternative
> > experience is catastrophic non-coping, so it's very hard to challenge a
> > reasonably secure position, however uncomfortable. Better the devil
> > you know....
>
> My wife seemes to have learned how to cope by becoming very function- or
> task-oriented. She's always the one planning or organizing something; it
> seems to give her some sense of being in control of a situation. It
> keeps her from getting depressed, although I've recently begun to
> understand that for her, it also keeps her from having to deal with the
> emotional aspects of day-to-day living. If she keeps bbusy, then she
> doesn't feel like she's missing anything, and she doesn't have time to
> dwell on things over which she has no (or had no) control.
>
> Unfortunately, it seems to have become so ingrained in her that she now
> claims to have no idea how to be intimate. This coiuld be one
> explanation for some of her inappropriate responses to me, and is very
> likely why she doesn't respond to emotional or personal issues that I
> raise. Even when she appears to agree with what I'm saying, she never
> goes back to think about anything I've said, and the subject never comes
> up again - unless of course I have to bring it up because it remaiend
> unresolved.
>

She would probably be better to work on intimacy and trust issues with
an independent person (ie a counsellor). No one can make her do that
however.

christina

[darklily]

suzee wrote:

> darklily wrote:
> > Visi Caulk Mah Pnats wrote:
> >

> >>ne...@celticbear.com wrote:
> >>
> >>>It's cliche, but I have a rediculously HUGE sexual appetite, and my
> >>>wife has pretty much none. We both eagerly want to find a compromise.
> >>>
> >>>I'm finding a lot of books on Amazon about increasing women's
> >>>sexuality, but nothing on men who want sex too much. And some books
> >>>that appear to address marital sexual differences, but seemingly just
> >>>increasing it...not ways to come to a similar level or find
> >>>compromises or an equal level in between.
> >>>
> >>>Any suggestions for books on these topics?

> >>>Thanks!
> >>>Liam

> >>
> >>how do you incompatible people end up with each other?
> >>

> >>--
> >
> > From personal experience I have found that sexual appetite isn't a
> > constant. I have been with (dating and married time together) my DH for
> > 18 years. I am still fairly young (34)...we just started early and
> > stayed together. But in all those years neither of us have had a
> > constant level. Things in life change. One partner can go through a
> > stressful, demanding period at work, the other goes back to school,
> > pregnancy and children can have an affect on appetite (particularly if
> > the woman is breastfeeding a child). So, what was equally matched at
> > one time can change for understandable reasons. The problem really
> > seems to occur when partners stop communicating. Not just about sexual
> > needs, but emotional support needs, help with household duties,
> > child-rearing, etc. It can be very easy to make a situation worse by
> > taking it personally, that is making the problem about oneself rather
> > than understanding where one's partner is coming from. It's then very
> > easy for each person to become defensive.
> >
> > Just my 2 cents,
> >
> > darklily (excuse the terrible grammar/punctuation in places...I'm
> > typing very fast and trying to also write a report for work....eeeep)
>
> You have a very good understanding of the dynamics of a relationship. It
> is more than just mismatched libidoes and the stresses of life very much
> affect our sexual desires. As long as partners can and do talk openly
> about *all* their stresses and feelings they can weather the periods
> where they feel their needs aren't being met.
>
> sue

Whew, I just about had to chew my own leg off to get away from work and
finally get a chance to respond. I just wanted to say
"awww...shucks...thanks for the compliment."

darklily (back to lurking in the shadows)

[Norton]

In soc.sexuality.general Fred....@tds.net <Fred....@tds.net> wrote:

[snip]

>I get the feeling that you said I was wrong because you feel it is easy
>to calorie restrict. This does not mean that it is universally easy to
>calorie retrict. Please correct me if there is some reason why you feel
>this is a universal.

I have a (female) friend who finds it easy to calorie restrict.
She has difficulty understanding that there are those who
find it difficult.

Norton.

[Norton]

I'm not going to rant on what I think has happened to
US copyright (and patent, for that matter) law. You
Blueberry users might find out rather soon now.

But there is no way that good old Paris coined the phrase
"that's hot!" I can testify that it was in use before
her father was having sex.

Norton.

[kaye...@yahoo.com]

I find it hard to believe that anyone would say this in exactly the way
you say. I am a person who was once heavier (size 14 US)and now
considered petite (size 4). I kept it up my figure after having my
children, one of which was a C-section. It was hard, hard work. It
still is very hard work . Speaking for myself, what I have found is
that is a worthwhile tradeoff and that is what keeps me at it.

The decsion to do this was easy for me to make..the way I saw it, I had
nothing to lose but the weight. It took me a while to decide, but at
the time, I thought I was too young to buy dowdy clothes so I went for
it. I was 27 and now I am 43.

Norton, you'd be surprised how different my world became. It is sad,
but true. I found it easier to converse with male colleagues, catch
taxis, get waited on, get doors opened for me when my hands were full.
Men asked me out on dates. I could get the guy in the mail room to
take care of that onerous package by smiling sweetly at him.

Is it easy? Not on your life. Ask her if she thinks it is easy. I bet
she'll say no. Then ask her how she does it.

Ellen
(who is sucker for good chocolate and fine champagne, none of which are
too good for her waistline, but will indulge occasionally ;))

[Norton]

In soc.sexuality.general kaye...@yahoo.com wrote:

Good for you! But I still think that some people find it
hard to calorie restrict. It may well be because the goal
is not seen as important enough. Or it may be for other
reasons. But folks differ. Those who succeed at a hard
task may still underestimate how much harder it is for
others.

Or am I being stupid?

Norton.

[kaye...@yahoo.com]

I wouldnt say you are being stupid...but I thought I made it clear that
I do not underestimate it at all. I think like all habits, overeating
needs to be broken when the reward of not overeating exceeds the reward
of doing otherwise.

Ellen
>
> Norton.

[Norton]

kaye...@yahoo.com wrote:

Sure. But as I said some find it difficult.

Can we agree to disagree?

Norton.