WRITE WASHINGTON VIA SNAIL MAIL TODAY..IT'S ON OUR SHOULDERS
AnAmericanCitizen
I heard today that the Senate "plan" (Baucus, buried on page Three Hundred and ??)
punishes doctors if they give seniors more care than allowed by the goverment.
Dick Morris has offered some good information on how this and other alarming
information regarding what the government is up to should be responded to.
Mail via U.S. Post Office, I believe, might be the most viable way at this time to
get their heads up. They've already been swamped by telephone calls and faxes. Now
they need to have bags of letters delivered to their offices. Senate and House
members need to be convinced we mean it!!!!!!.....AAC
(My ISP (internet service provider) allows me to send mail with the same subject to
only five newsgroups. Think of all the people we could reach if everyone reading
this each sent it out to other groups of five along with sending it to everyone in
their address book. This isn't just a senior issue. It's an every age issue. An
issue that if passed will have a detrimental impact on our country and everyone in it
for generations to come.)
WRITING TO YOUR SENATORS AND CONGRESSMEN ABOUT HEALTHCARE
By Dick Morris 10.27.2009
1. Be sure to write via snail mail, no email, send it to them with a stamp on a dead
tree!
2. House members can be addressed by name at:
House Office Building
Washington DC, 20515
3. Senators by name at:
Senate Office Building
Washington DC, 20510
You don�t need their room or anything.
Please put your feelings about health care reform into your own words.
4. Here are some talking points for your consideration in drafting the letter. I do
not want to include a text because it will be discounted if all the letters are
the same:
a. Oppose the $400 billion cut in Medicare.
b. Oppose ending the Medicare Advantage program that helps offer low cost
supplemental coverage to the elderly for hearing aids, eyeglasses, and a variety
of benefits not covered by Medicare. Now the only way to supplement Medicare will
be Medigap coverage, largely offered by the AARP that is both more expensive and
less comprehensive.
c. The fine of $1,000 on the uninsured will not induce them to get coverage. To be
covered, they would have to pay between 8 and 12 percent of their income before
they get any subsidy. How would a $1,000 fine induce them to pay that much to get
coverage?
d. The program will raise insurance premiums by $1,700 per family per year.
e. The bill provides for a 40% tax on health insurance premiums.
f. Medical devices like pacemakers, heart valves, artificial limbs, replacement hips
and knees will all be taxed.
g. Taxes on those who have to pay 7 1/2 percent of their income in medical costs will
no longer be able to deduct their premiums unless their payments reach 10% of
their income�a tax on sick people!
Please include some or all of these points and mix up the order so the letters don�t
read alike!
And please get all your friends to write too!!!!!....Dick Morris
Razor Sixty Nine
only out to push his book which has been found to be 89.6% fabrications.
Billy
AnAmericanCitizen <NoAm...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I heard today that the Senate "plan" (Baucus, buried on page Three Hundred
> and ??)
> punishes doctors if they give seniors more care than allowed by the
> goverment.
You hear voices in your head or do you have a cite?
Why don't you want all Americans to have health care?
--
�When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.�
-Archbishop Helder Camara
http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm
AnAmericanCitizen
>In article <u6fee5d32brgl48cf...@4ax.com>,
> AnAmericanCitizen <NoAm...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> I heard today that the Senate "plan" (Baucus, buried on page Three Hundred
>> and ??)
>> punishes doctors if they give seniors more care than allowed by the
>> goverment.
>
>You hear voices in your head or do you have a cite?
>
>Why don't you want all Americans to have health care?
How about if they just subsidize those unable to work or to pay for their own
insurance and leave the rest of us alone? Why do you think they want to trash the
whole enchilada when they could bring about tort reform to bring down costs, allow
insurance companies across state lines to bring down costs and subsidize those that
are truly in need for help in obtaining health insurance?....AAC
"Anybody with half a brain knows that whatever health care plan Obama comes up with
will cost much more than what he says it will.� There's not one government program
that has ever come in on budget or under budget or on time, not one that has worked
as designed -- and the unintended consequences of all these programs are too numerous
to mention." -Rush�
clams_casino
>-- and the unintended consequences of all these programs are too numerous
>to mention." -Rush
>
>
>
>
>
Any reliable references?
Jerry Okamura
"Billy" <wldbilly@without_a.net> wrote in message
news:wldbilly-F84ABA...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au...
> In article <u6fee5d32brgl48cf...@4ax.com>,
> AnAmericanCitizen <NoAm...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> I heard today that the Senate "plan" (Baucus, buried on page Three
>> Hundred
>> and ??)
>> punishes doctors if they give seniors more care than allowed by the
>> goverment.
>
> You hear voices in your head or do you have a cite?
>
> Why don't you want all Americans to have health care?
Because you cannot achieve what you are trying to achieve, by allowing
someone else to pay for what you need or want. When you do that, you have
given them the right to give you what you need or want, and you have also
given them the right to not give you what you need or want.
Billy
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
What do you think we have now Jerry? Private death panels, where profit
is the most important consideration, instead of public death panels
(where no profit is involved). Most people would have as good or better
insurance with a public option (single payer) than what they have now,
and it would cost less than what they are paying now, and everybody
would be covered. Why do you want to make the insurance companies
richer, Jerry?
Billy
AnAmericanCitizen <NoAm...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 07:48:19 -0800, Billy <wldbilly@without_a.net> wrote:
>
> >In article <u6fee5d32brgl48cf...@4ax.com>,
> > AnAmericanCitizen <NoAm...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >> I heard today that the Senate "plan" (Baucus, buried on page Three Hundred
> >> and ??)
> >> punishes doctors if they give seniors more care than allowed by the
> >> goverment.
> >
> >You hear voices in your head or do you have a cite?
> >
> >Why don't you want all Americans to have health care?
>
> How about if they just subsidize those unable to work or to pay for their own
> insurance and leave the rest of us alone? Why do you think they want to
> trash the
> whole enchilada when they could bring about tort reform to bring down costs,
> allow
> insurance companies across state lines to bring down costs and subsidize
> those that
> are truly in need for help in obtaining health insurance?....AAC
Tort reform to protect incompetent doctors? Maybe we should just get rid
of them.
>
>
> "Anybody with half a brain knows that whatever health care plan Obama comes
> up with
> will cost much more than what he says it will.� There's not one government
> program
> that has ever come in on budget or under budget or on time, not one that has
> worked
> as designed -- and the unintended consequences of all these programs are too
> numerous
> to mention." -Rush�
That's exactly it you Pretend Patriot. Anybody with half a brain, would
would believe Rush.
AnAmericanCitizen
wrote:
Call Rush and ask him....AAC
Jerry Okamura
It is the same issue. When you buy health insurance, you are depending on
someone else to give you want you want or need, when you think you need it.
There can be no death panels, if you paid for what you want or need.
Billy
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
If you can afford it. Sounds like you have your own private death panel,
and measure people in dollars and cents. In any event, even with
excellent insurance, you can be denied treatment, or lose your job and
your insurance.
Billy
AnAmericanCitizen <NoAm...@earthlink.net> wrote:
I said,"Any reliable references?", you pretentious poser.
Jerry Okamura
There is a big difference between an individual deciding to end their life,
and someone else deciding to end your life. When someone else makes that
decision for the individual, the individula will die, even if they do not
want to die.
Billy
Call an overweight, hypocritical drug addict, who has had three wives?
Is all your information this good?
Billy
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
Is this anything like, if we throw you in a pond and you float, you'er a
witch?
Jerry, everyone wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die. Are you
telling me, that to pay your government 6% - 10%, for your health
insurance, isn't better than paying 30% - 50% of every premium dollar to
private insurance companies for year end bonuses?
Jerry, we are social creatures. We need help getting into out of this
world. Insuring health care to all is a familial, tribal, cultural, and
American thing to do.
Jerry Okamura
I am saying you cannot solve the cost problem, if you do not reduce the
medical inflation rate. I am saying that it is far better to take care of
yourself, then to depend on someone else to take care of you. Because when
you depend on someone else to take care of you, you have given them the
right to "choose" to either take care of you, or not take care of you.
>
> Jerry, we are social creatures. We need help getting into out of this
> world. Insuring health care to all is a familial, tribal, cultural, and
> American thing to do.
You don't need anyone but yourself. When you depend on yourself you are
truly free. The more you depend on someone else the less freedom you have.
pbj
There once was a magical fairy
who granted a wish to Jerry
"I wish to be free
of all dependency!!!"
So the fairy sent Jerry to Mogadishu...
Jerry Okamura
"pbj" <postittoth...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:05SdnWzwBOmuYGfX...@supernews.com...
If I could be freer in Mogadishu, that would be fine with me.
Billy
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
Maybe for you, but certainly not any team that you are on.
Jerry Okamura
What the heck does that mean?
Wildbilly
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
In real life, back in the bad old days, individuals survived by forming
groups. Power rested with those that acted in concert. Survivability
was/is enhanced by belonging to a group. The rest devolves naturally.
AnAmericanCitizen
>In article <r8b7f5hql33qpnfae...@4ax.com>,
> AnAmericanCitizen <NoAm...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:10:59 -0500, clams_casino
>> <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >AnAmericanCitizen wrote:
>> >
>> >>-- and the unintended consequences of all these programs are too numerous
>> >>to mention." -Rush
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Any reliable references?
>>
>> Call Rush and ask him....AAC
>
>Call an overweight, hypocritical drug addict, who has had three wives?
>Is all your information this good?
You're sure up on the times, aren't you, and wrong about old stuff. He was addicted
top painkillers for a bad back...happens to a lot of us. You talk as though he was
snorting cocaine or something...didn't happen. Three wives? Rush is a decent person
who just never learned how to date. That's none of anyone's business (including me).
And just to top off your complete lack of knowledge, Rush is as svelte as he's ever
been. He looks great. If you don't believe me, well, who cares what you think even
when you're dead wrong? Watch the tv listings for the next time he does a boffo
interview. Glad to have brought you up-to-date. There's millions more than me that
would be happy to take you on and set you straight....AAC
clams_casino
>On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:34:24 -0800, Billy <wldbilly@without_a.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>In article <r8b7f5hql33qpnfae...@4ax.com>,
>>AnAmericanCitizen <NoAm...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:10:59 -0500, clams_casino
>>><PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>AnAmericanCitizen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>-- and the unintended consequences of all these programs are too numerous
>>>>>to mention." -Rush
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Any reliable references?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Call Rush and ask him....AAC
>>>
>>>
>>Call an overweight, hypocritical drug addict, who has had three wives?
>>Is all your information this good?
>>
>>
>
>You're sure up on the times, aren't you, and wrong about old stuff. He was addicted
>top painkillers for a bad back...happens to a lot of us.
>
Are you totally clueless or do you just play an idiot on the
internet? Even Rush admits that he was taking the drugs to deal with
personal pressures.
Jerry Okamura
"clams_casino" <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
news:s3RMm.21659$Zu5....@newsfe24.iad...
So? Millions of Americans take drugs to deal with personal pressures.
Millions more drink alcohol to deal with personal pressures.
clams_casino
My point was that the "American" citizen was making the incorrect claim
Rush was taking drugs for back pain. In fact, he was taking them as
many others do - as a crutch.
The irony is that Rush has made a living beating up on people who may
need help from time to time.
AnAmericanCitizen
wrote:
>AnAmericanCitizen wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:34:24 -0800, Billy <wldbilly@without_a.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>In article <r8b7f5hql33qpnfae...@4ax.com>,
>>>AnAmericanCitizen <NoAm...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:10:59 -0500, clams_casino
>>>><PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>AnAmericanCitizen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>-- and the unintended consequences of all these programs are too numerous
>>>>>>to mention." -Rush
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>Any reliable references?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Call Rush and ask him....AAC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Call an overweight, hypocritical drug addict, who has had three wives?
>>>Is all your information this good?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>You're sure up on the times, aren't you, and wrong about old stuff. He was addicted
>>top painkillers for a bad back...happens to a lot of us.
>>
>
>Are you totally clueless or do you just play an idiot on the
>internet? Even Rush admits that he was taking the drugs to deal with
>personal pressures.
In all the years I've listened to Rush I never heard him make that statement. That
doesn't mean it doesn't happen. However, I would like to point out to you that in
most cases someone taking drugs to deal with personal pressures don't make that drug
Vicoden.
I won't respond to any more comments in this thread. I've infringed on Rush's
privacy enough....AAC
Have a Good Day! Be kinder than necessary, for everyone
you meet is fighting some kind of battle.
clams_casino
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Are you totally clueless or do you just play an idiot on the
>>internet? Even Rush admits that he was taking the drugs to deal with
>>personal pressures.
>>
>>
>
>In all the years I've listened to Rush I never heard him make that statement.
>
One example - He admitted such very recently in an interview with Jay
Leno.
clams_casino
He also admitted such on the Today Show.
Since you likely only believe FoxNews, here's an exerpt from an
interview with Chris Wallace:
WALLACE: Let's talk about you. You said recently, "I actually thank God
for my addiction to pain pills because I learned more about myself in
rehab than I would have ever learned otherwise." What did you learn from
drug rehab?
LIMBAUGH: One of the -- one of the things that I'd always had trouble
with in my life was trying to be what other people expected me to be or
wanted me to be, in my personal life, because I wanted to be liked.
And everybody's raised to want to be liked and to want to be loved.
Nobody wants to grow up being hated. Now, interestingly, my radio career
-- I don't care. You know, I -- I figured that out. It was a tough
thing, Chris, to learn to take as a measure of success being hated, you
know, by 20 or 30 percent of the country. I mean, that -- because
nobody's raised for that.
But in my personal life, what I -- the thing I learned most was that the
only way to have real intimacy with people, real solid relationships, is
to be who you are. That will attract the kind of people worthy of having
intimate relationships with, good friendships with.
WALLACE: And without putting you on the couch, are you saying that the
addiction came from some sense of personal inadequacy?
LIMBAUGH: Oh, of course. Yeah. It -- I wasn't good enough. I was masking
unhappiness elsewhere, not dealing with the real reasons I was unhappy
in my personal life. I had -- I had never experienced the kind of
euphoria that I got from a pain pill.
I think the only time that I really -- with all the success I've had,
the only time I've had the kind of euphoria is when I made the high
school football team as a sophomore. I was never prouder of myself.
But all my career achievements did not create that for me, because it's
-- you've got to maintain it every day. It's not something you earn and
that it lasts forever. And I don't look back. I don't stop and think
about what I've accomplished because there's always tomorrow, so I don't
have time for the euphoria. I don't have time for that.
Man, am I -- it's -- I'm too busy trying to meet everybody's
expectations tomorrow. So the pain pills came along and they masked all
these feelings of inadequacy that I had. Now, after just seven weeks of
this place in Arizona, I have zero feelings of inadequacy.
gavino
> I heard today that the Senate "plan" (Baucus, buried on page Three Hundred and ??)
> punishes doctors if they give seniors more care than allowed by the goverment.
>
> information regarding what the government is up to should be responded to.
>
> Mail via U.S. Post Office, I believe, might be the most viable way at this time to
> get their heads up. They've already been swamped by telephone calls and faxes. Now
> they need to have bags of letters delivered to their offices. Senate and House
> members need to be convinced we mean it!!!!!!.....AAC
>
> (My ISP (internet service provider) allows me to send mail with the same subject to
> only five newsgroups. Think of all the people we could reach if everyone reading
> this each sent it out to other groups of five along with sending it to everyone in
> their address book. This isn't just a senior issue. It's an every age issue. An
> issue that if passed will have a detrimental impact on our country and everyone in it
> for generations to come.)
>
> www.Dickmorris.com
>
> WRITING TO YOUR SENATORS AND CONGRESSMEN ABOUT HEALTHCARE
>
> By Dick Morris 10.27.2009
>
> 1. Be sure to write via snail mail, no email, send it to them with a stamp on a dead
> tree!
>
> 2. House members can be addressed by name at:
> House Office Building
> Washington DC, 20515
>
> 3. Senators by name at:
> Senate Office Building
> Washington DC, 20510
>
> You don’t need their room or anything.
> Please put your feelings about health care reform into your own words.
>
> 4. Here are some talking points for your consideration in drafting the letter. I do
> not want to include a text because it will be discounted if all the letters are
> the same:
>
> a. Oppose the $400 billion cut in Medicare.
>
> b. Oppose ending the Medicare Advantage program that helps offer low cost
> supplemental coverage to the elderly for hearing aids, eyeglasses, and a variety
> of benefits not covered by Medicare. Now the only way to supplement Medicare will
> be Medigap coverage, largely offered by the AARP that is both more expensive and
> less comprehensive.
>
> c. The fine of $1,000 on the uninsured will not induce them to get coverage. To be
> covered, they would have to pay between 8 and 12 percent of their income before
> they get any subsidy. How would a $1,000 fine induce them to pay that much to get
> coverage?
>
> d. The program will raise insurance premiums by $1,700 per family per year.
>
> e. The bill provides for a 40% tax on health insurance premiums.
>
> f. Medical devices like pacemakers, heart valves, artificial limbs, replacement hips
> and knees will all be taxed.
>
> g. Taxes on those who have to pay 7 1/2 percent of their income in medical costs will
> no longer be able to deduct their premiums unless their payments reach 10% of
> their income…a tax on sick people!
>
> Please include some or all of these points and mix up the order so the letters don’t
> read alike!
>
> And please get all your friends to write too!!!!!....Dick Morris
tax o rama
cant the commies stop?
Jerry Okamura
"clams_casino" <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
> Jerry Okamura wrote:
>
>>
>> "clams_casino" <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
>> news:s3RMm.21659$Zu5....@newsfe24.iad...
>>
>>> AnAmericanCitizen wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You're sure up on the times, aren't you, and wrong about old stuff. He
>>>> was addicted
>>>> top painkillers for a bad back...happens to a lot of us.
>>>
>>>
>>> Are you totally clueless or do you just play an idiot on the internet?
>>> Even Rush admits that he was taking the drugs to deal with personal
>>> pressures.
>>>
>>
>> So? Millions of Americans take drugs to deal with personal pressures.
>> Millions more drink alcohol to deal with personal pressures.
>
>
> My point was that the "American" citizen was making the incorrect claim
> Rush was taking drugs for back pain. In fact, he was taking them as many
> others do - as a crutch.
As I understand the issue, he was taking them because he was in pain. That
is a "crutch" that many others will gladly do as well, if they are
experiencing constant pain.
>
> The irony is that Rush has made a living beating up on people who may
> need help from time to time.
It is an age old question, is it better to feed a person, or is it better to
help a person feed themselves. If you believe it is better to feed a
person, then you would supoort helping people who need help. If you believe
it is better to help a person to feed themselves, then you would want to
have policies that help them help themselves. If you help people the odds
are you will always be helping them. If you help people help themsevles,
there is a good chance that you won't have to help them forever.
Wildbilly
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
You're really incorrigible aren't you?
Wildbilly
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
What happened? Somebody wind you up again? Yada-yada-yada, bye.
Jerry Okamura
"Wildbilly" <wldbilly@without_a.net> wrote in message
news:wldbilly-6AC7D4...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au...
Why? Do you want to be dependent on someone else for the rest of your life,
or would you prefer to be less dependent on someone else for the rest of
your life?
Jerry Okamura
yourself, by posting hhe same reply you posted when you responded to the
other posting I made.
Wildbilly
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
And what is the sound of one hand clapping, Jerry. Just because you can
frame a question, doesn't mean that it is based in reality.
Wildbilly
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
Sounds like either way, I'm dependent on somebody for the rest of my
life.
Would you prefer to be avoided by everybody? It's no problem.
Jerry Okamura
It doesn't mean it isn't based on reality either.
Jerry Okamura
We are all dependent on someone else. It is a question of hoe dependent on
someone else you want to be. It is also a question of whether you want to
be "forced" to be dependent on someone else.
>
> Would you prefer to be avoided by everybody? It's no problem.
No skin off my nose, if that happened. I will survive.
Wildbilly
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
Just so that we all understand, that just because you can ask a
question, it doesn't make the premise real.
Freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose.
Are you free from public roads, education, regulations for clean water,
air, and food, ect.?
Jerry Okamura
I think I am now starting to understand how the left feels. They don't care
much about our freedoms. I guess that is why they support government taking
our freedoms from us.
>
> Are you free from public roads, education, regulations for clean water,
> air, and food, ect.?
No, that represents a loss of freedom.
Wildbilly
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
You have it all figured out, eh, Jerry?
I am not the left. I am Wild Billy, c'est tout.
You need to get out of your head, and join real life.
Get up. Stand up.
clams_casino
>
>>
>> Are you free from public roads, education, regulations for clean water,
>> air, and food, ect.?
>
>
> No, that represents a loss of freedom.
>
You really need to move to a third world country where you can be
totally free.
Jerry Okamura
I am doing my best to stand up. But like Don Quixote, I sometime get the
feeling that I am alone in my fight for freedom and independence.
Jerry Okamura
"clams_casino" <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
I will nove to a third world country which will give me more freedom, if you
will move to a country that limits your freedom, like North Korea.
normak
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:_KyOm.47699$W77....@newsfe11.iad...
No, you aren't.
Norma
>
clams_casino
No thanks. I prefer the protection the government provides here -
reliable food supply, adequate building codes, strong military, the
confidence I can reasonably walk the streets, confidence I can drive
without high fear of drunk drivers, the right to purchase any medical
care I want, even if not covered by the medical plan I choose, etc.
In fact, I'm at a loss as to what government programs are hindering my
way of life.
Wildbilly
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
It's those damn windmills, they'll get you every time.
Don't worry, you're not alone. There are lots of people who have bought
into the crap that you are selling.
Jerry Okamura
Fighting for freedom is crap?
Jerry Okamura
"clams_casino" <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
you prefer to be a slave, rather than be free.
clams_casino
Free from being robbed, mugged, poisoned, abused, killed by a drunk
driver, owning a structurally unsound home, etc - works for me.
Keep in mind that most every law has been passed because someone
believed they had the freedom to abuse someone else.
Would you say Bernie Madoff has been treated unfairly? Would you argue
he should be free to swindle others?
Jerry Okamura
"clams_casino" <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
That is your choice. You have decided that your safety is more important
than your freedom
>
> Keep in mind that most every law has been passed because someone believed
> they had the freedom to abuse someone else.
Yes, with freedom comes responsibility. If you do not act in a responsible
way, then you can bet your bottom dollar that government will take away your
freedom.
>
> Would you say Bernie Madoff has been treated unfairly? Would you argue he
> should be free to swindle others?
Bernie Madoff abused his freedom, and should pay the price for absuing his
freedom, as should everyone else who abuses their freedom.
Wildbilly
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
You sound like a hut case, Jerry.
> >
> >
> > Free from being robbed, mugged, poisoned, abused, killed by a drunk
> > driver, owning a structurally unsound home, etc - works for me.
>
> That is your choice. You have decided that your safety is more important
> than your freedom.
If some free individuals decide to form a group whose goal is rob you,
do you go and hire the best police (muscle) you can afford?
THis is getting silly, Jerry.
> >
> > Keep in mind that most every law has been passed because someone believed
> > they had the freedom to abuse someone else.
>
> Yes, with freedom comes responsibility. If you do not act in a responsible
> way, then you can bet your bottom dollar that government will take away your
> freedom.
So your in favor of opening the maximum security prisons and letting
everybody out, because the prisons aren't near you, and you don't want
to pay for them, Jerry?
> >
> > Would you say Bernie Madoff has been treated unfairly? Would you argue he
> > should be free to swindle others?
>
> Bernie Madoff abused his freedom, and should pay the price for absuing his
> freedom, as should everyone else who abuses their freedom.
And how shall that price be enforced, Jerry? Who is going to pay for
that enforcement?
Wildbilly
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
Your not fighting for freedom, Jerry. You are suggesting that we suspend
the organizational body of our society, government, which would leave us
even more exposed to the tender mercies of corporations, who only worry
about the bottom line, Jerry, and not humans.
I mean, when light goes by you, it must bend.
Wildbilly
<wldbilly-01441B...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
Wildbilly <wldbilly@without_a.net> wrote:
Let me rephrase that, you sound like a nut case, Jerry, a nut case.
Ga...@comcast.net
"normak" <njk...@qREMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
news:Es2dnegNXod6JJfW...@giganews.com...
2 loudmouth, gutless, whining idiots don't make a movement
>
Jerry Okamura
corporations sell. So, you are playing the old "victimhood" game.
Jerry Okamura
Wildbilly
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> "Wildbilly" <wldbilly@without_a.net> wrote in message
> news:wldbilly-345B12...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au...
> > In article <SMVOm.49191$Zu5....@newsfe24.iad>,
> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Wildbilly" <wldbilly@without_a.net> wrote in message
> >> news:wldbilly-DD1CE0...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au...
> >> > In article <_KyOm.47699$W77....@newsfe11.iad>,
> >> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Wildbilly" <wldbilly@without_a.net> wrote in message
> >> >> news:wldbilly-A4C91D...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au..
> >> >> .
> >> >> > In article <VxmOm.18846$kY2....@newsfe01.iad>,
> >> >> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> "Wildbilly" <wldbilly@without_a.net> wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:wldbilly-C17232...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.a
> >> >> >> u..
> >> >> >> .
> >> >> >> > In article <54eOm.19656$ET3....@newsfe17.iad>,
> >> >> >> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> "Wildbilly" <wldbilly@without_a.net> wrote in message
> >> >> >> >> news:wldbilly-8E5454...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.ne
Woulda, shoulda, coulda, you need to start drinking up stream from the
herd, Jerry.
Jerry Okamura
Why?
Wildbilly
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> "Wildbilly" <wldbilly@without_a.net> wrote in message
> news:wldbilly-ABF348...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au...
> > In article <BxzPm.20068$gd1....@newsfe05.iad>,
> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Wildbilly" <wldbilly@without_a.net> wrote in message
> >> news:wldbilly-345B12...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au...
> >> > In article <SMVOm.49191$Zu5....@newsfe24.iad>,
> >> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Wildbilly" <wldbilly@without_a.net> wrote in message
> >> >> news:wldbilly-DD1CE0...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au..
> >> >> .
> >> >> > In article <_KyOm.47699$W77....@newsfe11.iad>,
> >> >> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> "Wildbilly" <wldbilly@without_a.net> wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:wldbilly-A4C91D...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.a
> >> >> >> u..
> >> >> >> .
> >> >> >> > In article <VxmOm.18846$kY2....@newsfe01.iad>,
> >> >> >> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> "Wildbilly" <wldbilly@without_a.net> wrote in message
> >> >> >> >> news:wldbilly-C17232...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.ne
> >> >> >> >> t.a
> >> >> >> >> u..
> >> >> >> >> .
> >> >> >> >> > In article <54eOm.19656$ET3....@newsfe17.iad>,
> >> >> >> >> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> "Wildbilly" <wldbilly@without_a.net> wrote in message
> >> >> >> >> >> news:wldbilly-8E5454...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect
You have swallowed way too much shit.
From your point of view, you only have one freedom, and that is to die.
Everything else is a struggle.
Jerry Okamura
Dying is not a freedom. We will all die.
Wildbilly
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
You can still free to choose the time.
But you are playing the free-market zealots Ayn Rand/Milton Friedman
game of "greed is good for everybody" and "free market" forces will
control it. But where are the market forces when people want to burn
coal, fix prices, dump toxic compounds in waterways, or sell insurance
that they can't cover? Then according to you, Ayn Rand/Milton Friedman,
and their economic zombies, it is a government intrusion into your
freedom to prevented them from doing so.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/business/economy/24panel.html
http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/2009/01/stiglitz200901
Business want more freedom so that they can screw more people, Jerry. Is
that what you want. If "WE" don't have regulations and enforcement, what
is to stop them? We have regulations because business has insisted on
committing these acts in the past. Does government abuse its' power of
regulation? Sometimes, yes, but then it is usually done in a way that
makes for unequal competition between large corporations and small
businesses.
God, you're stupid, Jerry.
Jerry Okamura
> In article <lOTPm.6634$Lq5....@newsfe20.iad>,
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> >> >> Corporations cannot exist if the "people" would not buy the things
>> >> >> that
>> >> >> corporations sell. So, you are playing the old "victimhood" game.
>> >> >
>> >> > Woulda, shoulda, coulda, you need to start drinking up stream from
>> >> > the
>> >> > herd, Jerry.
>> >>
>> >> Why?
>> >
>> > You have swallowed way too much shit.
>> >
>> > From your point of view, you only have one freedom, and that is to die.
>> > Everything else is a struggle.
>>
>> Dying is not a freedom. We will all die.
>
> You can still free to choose the time.
That is a true statement.
>
> But you are playing the free-market zealots Ayn Rand/Milton Friedman
> game of "greed is good for everybody" and "free market" forces will
> control it. But where are the market forces when people want to burn
> coal, fix prices, dump toxic compounds in waterways, or sell insurance
> that they can't cover? Then according to you, Ayn Rand/Milton Friedman,
> and their economic zombies, it is a government intrusion into your
> freedom to prevented them from doing so.
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/business/economy/24panel.html
> http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/2009/01/stiglitz200901
If we want to be free, we need to take that right seriously. Everytime we
abuse that freedom, government will take away our freedom. With freedom
comes a whole lot of responsibility. With no freedom, there is no
responsibility.
>
> Business want more freedom so that they can screw more people, Jerry. Is
> that what you want. If "WE" don't have regulations and enforcement, what
> is to stop them? We have regulations because business has insisted on
> committing these acts in the past. Does government abuse its' power of
> regulation? Sometimes, yes, but then it is usually done in a way that
> makes for unequal competition between large corporations and small
> businesses.
You can only "screw" people if they allow themselves to be screwed.
Wildbilly
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
I can see that you have totally lost your mind, Jerry.
How does on protect oneself against the polluters of the air, water, and
food? It's call privatizing the profit and socializing the costs.
If you eat (non-organic) store bought lettuce, it probably contains
perchlorate (rocket fule), because some bean counter decided that it
would cost the government too much to clean-up a private company's mess.
But you and your family still eat chemicals that weren't meant to be
eaten.
So your going to do subsistence farming. Control your own destiny. How
you gonna run a 10 (40 wold be better) acre farm (produce, chickens,
steers, maybe some cotton or sheep for clothing) and have time for a job
to pay for your 10 acres?
Then you have to be careful of the car salesman, so that he doesn't
stick you with a lemon.
Oh, my god, you may need a bank loan.
How you gonna do everything, Jerry?
If you want to stop any of the above, you need regulation.
Who is gonna pay for the regulation, Jerry?
Do you just get the justice that you can afford, Jerry?
It's one thing to mumble this mumbo jumbo, but doing it is completely
different.
Bye, Jerry. Have your head looked at.
Jerry Okamura
"If" you want to protect yourself for anything anyone else does, that you do
not want them to do, the only way to do that is to infringe on their
freedoms. If you infringe on someone elses freedoms, because you don't like
what they are doing, someone else can infringe on your freedoms because they
do not like what you are doing.
>
> So your going to do subsistence farming. Control your own destiny. How
> you gonna run a 10 (40 wold be better) acre farm (produce, chickens,
> steers, maybe some cotton or sheep for clothing) and have time for a job
> to pay for your 10 acres?
Do you need 10 acres to provide the food you need to survive? Of course you
don't have to do that. Other than living in a desert, there are animals all
around you that you can kill to feed yourself. Then all you need is water
to survive.
>
> Then you have to be careful of the car salesman, so that he doesn't
> stick you with a lemon.
Well only if you are buying a used car, and anyone who doesn't know the risk
in buying a used car, deserves what they get, which by the way happened to
me, when I bought my first car. But I managed to survive, by repairing the
car with some help from a fellow student, since I did not know a thing about
fixing cars at the time. And I had that car for about two or three years.
Even going cross couuntry a number of times on it.
> Oh, my god, you may need a bank loan.
Or pay for it in full?
>
> How you gonna do everything, Jerry?
You cannot do everything. That is the price of freedom, you can only do
what you have worked to earn.
>
> If you want to stop any of the above, you need regulation.
Why?
>
> Who is gonna pay for the regulation, Jerry?
Don't have regulations then you don't have to pay for those regulations.
>
> Do you just get the justice that you can afford, Jerry?
If everyone honored their freedoms, no one would abuse their freedoms. If
no one abused their freedoms, there would be no need for a justice system,
since no one would break the law. You get the amount of freedom you
deserve. Act resposibly and you have more freedom, act irresponsibly and
governmetn will take away your freedoms.