Hitler's artwork and influence on display
Gary James
Hitler's artwork and influence on display at Williams College
WILLIAMSTOWN, Mass. (AP) - The images of Adolf Hitler's Third Reich
forever will be linked with evil. The menace of the swastika, the
perfect but intimidating columns of marching Nazi soldiers.
An exhibit at Williams College Museum of Art argues that it wasn't a
study of warfare, politics and military strategy that influenced the
background and symbols for Hitler's visions. It was art: Wagner's
operas; the dark and simple work of German painters; Viennese
architecture.
``Prelude to a Nightmare: Art, Politics, and Hitler's Early Years in
Vienna 1906-1913'' traces the dictator's artistic aspirations,
disappointments and influences during his seven years in the Austrian
city.
The exhibit uses about 275 paintings, posters and clips of film from
Nazi rallies to illustrate art's influence on Hitler. Displays of
anti-Semitic pamphlets that circulated around Vienna in the early 1900s
show that Hitler mimicked the pamphlets for his own propaganda decades
later.
Two years after visiting Vienna for the first time, Hitler moved there
in 1908 as a 19-year-old aspiring artist. Twice rejected from the city's
art academy, he drifted, staying in homeless shelters, attending operas
and watching sessions of Parliament.
A friend encouraged him to sell his paintings - mostly postcards and
watercolors of Vienna landscapes - some of which are displayed in the
Williams exhibit. According to a memoir kept by the friend and on
display at the exhibit, some of Hitler's highest paying and most loyal
customers were Jews.
His work never rose to critical acclaim.
``He was known for copying from other images,'' said Deborah Rothschild,
the curator who organized the Williams exhibit. ``He had no
originality.''
While living the life of a struggling artist, Hitler was drawn to the
politics of the pan-German party, a right-wing, anti- Semitic group that
promoted the so-called superiority of an Aryan race.
The artwork embraced by the pan-Germans - folksy paintings that asserted
German dominance - was among Hitler's favorite. He railed against modern
art. As Fuhrer, Hitler staged an art show of ``degenerate art,''
comparing works by artists such as van Gogh and Picasso to images of
human deformity.
The Williams exhibit, mostly strung together with pieces on loan from
museums in Vienna, shows original works and reproductions of the art to
which Hitler responded. There are the images he loved - like the
painting of drunken monks by Eduard von Grutzner - and those he loathed,
including a self-portrait of Vincent van Gogh.
``His taste was very conservative,'' Rothschild said. ``He had an ideal
of what art should be, and he hated what didn't fit that ideal.''
Above all, Hitler seemed to have an obsession with opera - most notably
the work of Richard Wagner. It was in Wagner's operas, anti-Semitic
politics and pro-German writings that Hitler began forming the
groundwork - both aesthetic and philosophical - for his Third Reich,
according to the exhibit.
``He loved Wagner,'' Rothschild said. ``He loved the timing, the
presentation and the design.''
Wagner's set designer, Alfred Roller, had an obvious influence on
Hitler.
``Prelude to a Nightmare'' juxtaposes scenes from Wagner's operas
against photos of rallies orchestrated by the dictator. A painting of
Roller's set design for ``Rienzi'' shows smoke and fire rising from
Rome's capitol. The image is displayed next to a photograph of a Nazi
night rally held in 1934 with smoke and fire set against large
buildings. A set design from ``Parsifal,'' with imposing, high arches
and thick columns, mirrors an image of a swearing-in ceremony for
Hitler's body guards.
``You look at this, and you see where Hitler got some of his ideas,''
said Sherwin Fink, a business owner from Hillsdale, N.Y., who visited
the exhibit Tuesday. ``It gives a different perspective on someone we
know a lot about.''
Rothschild designed the exhibit, which runs through Oct. 27, as part of
a project highlighting art from Vienna being sponsored by 11 Berkshire
galleries and museums.
``As a college museum, I wanted something that would be a catalyst for
thinking and discussion,'' she said. ``I wanted to give people something
to talk about.''
About 21,000 people have visited the exhibit since it opened in July,
but Rothschild said despite the turnout, there are no plans to put it on
tour.
On the Net: http://www.williams.edu/WCMA/
http://webcenter.newssearch.netscape.com/aolns_display.adp?key=200209041739000149090_aolns.src
Earl
news:3D77C295...@yahoo.com:
>
> Hitler's artwork and influence on display at Williams
> College
>
Most of the Nazi era art is stored in US Army warehouses.
After the conquest of Germany the US seized almost all existing
German art, both public and private collections in an effort to
deNazify Germany.
The paintings have never been returned. What little is on
display is from collections that were immune from confication
(foreign collections).
Gary James
I think it would be interesting to see his art. I know that it will
probably never be seen by the average person, but whynot ? He was a
historical figure whose actions were imprinted on Europe much the way
of Napolean. Our generation would probably had not been the same had
it not been for him. Maybe better, maybe worse, but not the same.
I saw an interesting show on the History Channel a couple of weeks
back. It was about this team of reporters had found the remains of
Hitler. They had done this about 1994 with the help of some old
Soviet KGB types who opened their records.
And after I had believed that his few remains had been burned in 1945.
Like I had been told. The commies lied so much about everything we
really need to have someone search out more of things like this.
Just ot have a truthful record for history.
Gary James
wrote:
>On 7 Sep 2002 20:27:53 GMT, Earl <Ea...@Neosoft.com> wrote:
>
>There was a lot of the military stuff on the walls of the Pentaton. I
>saw a number of painting and such in several corridors.
>
>Not sure who said little on display? The stuff I saw was from the
>military collections.
Back when I was a teenager (1950s) I use to see quite a bit of old
paintings and pictures of the Nazi era Germany in coin collection
sales. German helmets and other war parapheralia was quite common.
But I have not seen anything in recent years and my understanding is
that it is evil to own such items. We will probably have a law to
that regards before long.
We will be as crazy as France, in other words.
When I was young most of the old Warriors of WW2 had momentos of their
battles. And were properly proud. I recall my father's favorite
was a Luger taken from a German major.
Rita
Gary, I saw a lot of Nazi propaganda posters and other Nazi
parphenalia at the Imperial War Museum in London. And they
were chilling, indeed. Most chilling was a replica of an SS member
in full regalia, including the death's head insignia. I also saw
Nazi propaganda posters and Nazi art at the Pompidou in
Paris -- a special exhibition I was lucky enough to stumble in
on. Also posters from Franco's Spain.
I recommend the Imperial War Museum to anyone with an interest
in history who visits London. It is not one of the more publicized
"sights" but I will return there next trip over.
I have a collection of U.S. propaganda posters from World War II.
I should do a website with them one of these days. They are most
interesting. Since I was a teen in World War II years, I remembered
some of them. I collected all these from the Internet. You probably
could find Nazi propaganda stuff if you did a search.
Well, I just did it for you:) as I am interested also.:
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/posters2.htm
http://www.library.unt.edu/govinfo/mapsandposters/wwiipost.html
http://history1900s.about.com/cs/nazipropaganda/
http://members.home.nl/roel878w/mainmenu.html
And here is Hitler's art:
Gary James
Well, I am surprised they would allow it in Paris.
>I recommend the Imperial War Museum to anyone with an interest
>in history who visits London. It is not one of the more publicized
>"sights" but I will return there next trip over.
I will certainly get by there if I get to London.
>I have a collection of U.S. propaganda posters from World War II.
>I should do a website with them one of these days. They are most
>interesting.
Why not try it ? That kind of thing has only recently begun to
interest me. The only thing I have are a bunch of old German
postage stamps with Hitler on them. I have one post card
(watercolored) with a cancelled stamp of him. I also have a post
card with a sketch of Hitler's face as the art work. Sort of
sinister.
(BTW, if you do build a web page, please don't do like Mel and put it
on AOL where no one can see it)
I don't have any American propoganda but would like to see some.
I was not old enough to see it at the time but I have seen WW2
propoganda that insisted the Japs were tossing babies into the air an
catching them opn their bayonets.
Then along came Saddam in 1990 and the same thing was being said of
him. I hated not to believe my government, but ..... It's times
like this people need a little education.
>Since I was a teen in World War II years, I remembered
>some of them. I collected all these from the Internet. You probably
>could find Nazi propaganda stuff if you did a search.
>
>Well, I just did it for you:) as I am interested also.:
>
>http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/
>
>http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/posters2.htm
>
>http://www.library.unt.edu/govinfo/mapsandposters/wwiipost.html
>
>http://history1900s.about.com/cs/nazipropaganda/
>
>http://poster-posters.com/
>
>http://members.home.nl/roel878w/mainmenu.html
I'll get to these later :-) Thank you.
I recall seeing a lot of posters about 24 X 36 inches of Hitler in the
1960s. These could have been bought cheap. I wish I had of had an
interest in propoganda then and started a collection.
>And here is Hitler's art:
>
>
>http://www.hitler.org/art/nudes/
>
>http://www.hitler.org/art/
Thanks. I tried this url last week and could not get it to open.
After looking over this collection of pictures I come to one
conclusion, as a very non artist and a person who should not be
criticising art:
None of it is very good except the following:
His sketch of a nude #3. Landscape #7 and building #4. These are
all fair.
I must say his sketches of dogs seem very good and I would not mind
having one for my wall.
Back about 40 years ago I read a bio of Hitler and if I recall he was
denied entrance to the art school (or whatever) because he lacked
originality. They did recommend he pursue architectural art. If
building #4 is his and not copied from another's work, then I can
well understand why they recommended this. He did have a good flair
for inanimate objects.
He seemed to do far better with his drawings than colors. I would
hazard the opinion that he did not seem to be able to keep up with the
source of light for his paintings. It appears to come from all
directions.
It is my opinion that people who would prevent other people from
seeing this type thing because the painter did very bad things misses
a great deal in believablility. Just seeing this has proven that
what I read 40 years ago is true. I had wondered since then if he
were really as ametuerish as they had said. Nothing establishes
truth like openess and I can't see how anyone would argue this.
Rita
James) wrote:
>>Gary, I saw a lot of Nazi propaganda posters and other Nazi
>>parphenalia at the Imperial War Museum in London. And they
>>were chilling, indeed. Most chilling was a replica of an SS member
>>in full regalia, including the death's head insignia. I also saw
>>Nazi propaganda posters and Nazi art at the Pompidou in
>>Paris -- a special exhibition I was lucky enough to stumble in
>>on. Also posters from Franco's Spain.
>
>Well, I am surprised they would allow it in Paris.
You would be surprised what you can find in Paris:)
>
>>I recommend the Imperial War Museum to anyone with an interest
>>in history who visits London. It is not one of the more publicized
>>"sights" but I will return there next trip over.
>
>I will certainly get by there if I get to London.
>
>>I have a collection of U.S. propaganda posters from World War II.
>>I should do a website with them one of these days. They are most
>>interesting.
>
>Why not try it ? That kind of thing has only recently begun to
>interest me. The only thing I have are a bunch of old German
>postage stamps with Hitler on them. I have one post card
>(watercolored) with a cancelled stamp of him. I also have a post
>card with a sketch of Hitler's face as the art work. Sort of
>sinister.
>
>(BTW, if you do build a web page, please don't do like Mel and put it
>on AOL where no one can see it)
I would not go near AOL. I do have a web page showing propaganda
posters aimed at women during World War II. The slides display well
only using Internet Explorer 5 or later, however. People trying to
view them with Netscape see only partial views. It is difficult to do
some kinds of web pages to suit all browsers.
http://home.nyc.rr.com/mygallery/
>
>I don't have any American propoganda but would like to see some.
>
>I was not old enough to see it at the time but I have seen WW2
>propoganda that insisted the Japs were tossing babies into the air an
>catching them opn their bayonets.
The Japanese did do horrific things. Read a bit about what they did
when they invaded China.
>>And here is Hitler's art:
>>
>>
>>http://www.hitler.org/art/nudes/
>>
>>http://www.hitler.org/art/
>
>
>It is my opinion that people who would prevent other people from
>seeing this type thing because the painter did very bad things misses
>a great deal in believablility. Just seeing this has proven that
>what I read 40 years ago is true. I had wondered since then if he
>were really as ametuerish as they had said. Nothing establishes
>truth like openess and I can't see how anyone would argue this.
>
I do not believe in censorship of books, art, or anything else,
except child porn and snuff films and the like.
hHitler burned books and banned a lot of
great art and music from Nazi Germany. If in a democracy we
do the same, how are we any better?
Our late Mayor, Rudi Guiliani, was offended by a painting that
he took to be anti-Catholic and tried to cut off city funding for the
Brooklyn Museum. The laugh was that the painting had been
done by an African Catholic and was not at all offensive taken
from his point of view. Thinking about this so annoyed me I just
spilled my coffee on my computer desktop:)
rumpelstiltskin
James) wrote:
>Why not try it ? That kind of thing has only recently begun to
>interest me. The only thing I have are a bunch of old German
>postage stamps with Hitler on them. I have one post card
>(watercolored) with a cancelled stamp of him. I also have a post
>card with a sketch of Hitler's face as the art work. Sort of
>sinister.
I used to collect stamps in my teens, which I'm not proud
of because it seems to me now an unbelievably stupid way
to have spent my very limited cash. I can't recall ever seeing
Hitler's face on a stamp, or Stalin's or Mussolini's, though it
seems there must be some in my collection. If I remember,
I'll check my old stampbook when I'm back east.
The most beautiful US commemorative stamps to me were
from the early part of the 20th century I particular like the
Columbian exposition stamps from about 1903. They were
monochromatic, with rather busy depictions of historical
themes, and the borders were ornate like an old-fashioned
picture frame.
My favorite modern series is the 50-stamp page with the
state flags on it. I just looked at the sheet I still have and
they're 13-cent stamps, so maybe "modern" is not quite the
right word. Runners-up are the state birds and state animals
and the historical national flags. The historical flags were
also a limited set repeated several times too, which is a
shame since there are a lot of flags that might have been
included, such as the flag with the snake and the words
"don't tread on me" that should have been included IMV. It
was once proposed that the startlingly brilliant-yellow banana
slug be made our official state animal in California. Our
insipidly strait-laced governor Deukmejian at the time vetoed
the proposal when it came up from the legislature on the
grounds it was "not dignified enough", which apart from all
the other reasons should have been grounds for
impeachment, IMV.
There was a series of musicians some time back too, but
there were only four different stamps repeated on the sheet,
rather than the panoply of musicians there should have been
IMV. One stamp showed Charles Ives, so I bought a sheet,
kept the Ives, and used the others. The others were George
Szell (who's not American-born), Leonard Bernstein, and
Samuel Barber, I think. Ruggles and Stephen Foster and
Richard Rodgers should surely have been there, at least,
though I think Rodgers did come up in a later set of
commemorative stamps. Ruggles is a really interesting-looking
guy, in an exceedingly un-pretty way. He was used as the
model for Captain Ahab in the illustrations in the first edition of
"Moby Dick". One time when the audience was booing at
the dreadful noise coming from the orchestra playing Ruggles,
Charles Ives stood up and shouted angrily at the audience for
not appreciating "this fine, manly music."
Karl Sigerist Sr.
Hitler did not create any Art,
at best he stole Art, or let steal Art by others.
Karl
Gary James
rumpelstiltskin wrote:
>
> On Mon, 09 Sep 2002 14:41:38 GMT, gnjames4...@yahoo.com (Gary
> James) wrote:
>
> >Why not try it ? That kind of thing has only recently begun to
> >interest me. The only thing I have are a bunch of old German
> >postage stamps with Hitler on them. I have one post card
> >(watercolored) with a cancelled stamp of him. I also have a post
> >card with a sketch of Hitler's face as the art work. Sort of
> >sinister.
>
> I used to collect stamps in my teens, which I'm not proud
> of because it seems to me now an unbelievably stupid way
> to have spent my very limited cash.
I agree about the money. I had a modest allowance and I would waste it
on sending off for "approvals" where they would send you a couple of
dollars worth of stamps and you selected and kept what you wanted and
sent back the others with the money.
>I can't recall ever seeing
> Hitler's face on a stamp, or Stalin's or Mussolini's, though it
> seems there must be some in my collection. If I remember,
> I'll check my old stampbook when I'm back east.
Oh, yes. They were about all Hitler during WW 2.
http://www.hgitner.com/hitler.html#low
> The most beautiful US commemorative stamps to me were
> from the early part of the 20th century I particular like the
> Columbian exposition stamps from about 1903.
That is the most beautiful set of stamps the US or anyone put out. I
was grown before I owned my own complete set. I have it framed and
keep it on the wall of my office.
I have three other framed stamp sets. The Presidential series circa
1940s, the Famous Americans set and the sheet of 50 birds that came out
in the late 1970s.
I gave up collecting in the 1970s when it seemed the US was trying to
outdo the Communist bloc countries as who could put out most ugly stamps
per year.
I will pass along my modest collection to a child one day if I ever find
one interested. I have not seen such a creature in 30 years.
> They were
> monochromatic, with rather busy depictions of historical
> themes, and the borders were ornate like an old-fashioned
> picture frame.
>
> My favorite modern series is the 50-stamp page with the
> state flags on it. I just looked at the sheet I still have and
> they're 13-cent stamps, so maybe "modern" is not quite the
> right word. Runners-up are the state birds and state animals
> and the historical national flags. The historical flags were
> also a limited set repeated several times too, which is a
> shame since there are a lot of flags that might have been
> included, such as the flag with the snake and the words
> "don't tread on me" that should have been included IMV. It
> was once proposed that the startlingly brilliant-yellow banana
> slug be made our official state animal in California.
I never thought of it but I could certainly second that motion. :-)
>Our
> insipidly strait-laced governor Deukmejian at the time vetoed
> the proposal when it came up from the legislature on the
> grounds it was "not dignified enough", which apart from all
> the other reasons should have been grounds for
> impeachment, IMV.
>
> There was a series of musicians some time back too, but
> there were only four different stamps repeated on the sheet,
This was one of the marketing devices that turned me completely off
collecting stamps.
> rather than the panoply of musicians there should have been
> IMV. One stamp showed Charles Ives, so I bought a sheet,
> kept the Ives, and used the others. The others were George
> Szell (who's not American-born), Leonard Bernstein, and
> Samuel Barber, I think. Ruggles and Stephen Foster and
> Richard Rodgers should surely have been there, at least,
> though I think Rodgers did come up in a later set of
> commemorative stamps. Ruggles is a really interesting-looking
> guy, in an exceedingly un-pretty way. He was used as the
> model for Captain Ahab in the illustrations in the first edition of
> "Moby Dick". One time when the audience was booing at
> the dreadful noise coming from the orchestra playing Ruggles,
> Charles Ives stood up and shouted angrily at the audience for
> not appreciating "this fine, manly music."
All those stamps are well and good but I think America's most beautiful
coins and stamps were issued when they all carried the image of liberty
or some other inspirational figure. Like the Morgan and Peace Dollars.
The Liberty (walking and standing) halves, quarters and dimes. It was
the advent of Lincoln's image on the 1909 penney that laid the ground
for not only him but many other lesser humans to grace ouor coins, and I
fear America's taste went into a downward spiral as well. It is really
hard to preach Liberty and all it's wonders when your coins and stamps
are debased with the face of tyrants, other petty thugs and symbols of
depravity.
I know this sounds small minded but you can just about measure the
greatness of this country by the likenesses on its coins and stamps.
When Liberty and the founders went out and Micky Mouse and Step N'
Fetchit came in, we were no longer in ascent as a culture.
Here is a view of some older gold coins:
Gary James
I have been referring to Hitler the tramp and vagabond. The draft
dodger and the homeless bum. The flighty country kid in the big
city. The boy who had to make his living through his own efforts
which was painting picture post cards.
In this he was a modest artist of sorts. I have certainly seen work
at the local museum that was far worse and it gets raves from the
arteeest set.
I was not discussing Hitler the supreme politician. Nor Hitler the
conqueror of Europe. Nor Hitler who built the Audabons and ordered the
Volkswagen. Nor Hitler the bosom buddy of Stalin.
I think Frau Rothchild has done a great service to bring this collection
to the view of the common masses. It might give them/us a feeling of
history.
Gordon
<PleaseDoNot...@nowhere.net> writes
>
> I used to collect stamps in my teens, which I'm not proud
>of because it seems to me now an unbelievably stupid way
>to have spent my very limited cash. I can't recall ever seeing
>Hitler's face on a stamp, or Stalin's or Mussolini's, though it
>seems there must be some in my collection.
I have four stamps with Hitler's head on them. They are in the same
box as some tram tickets form back in the 1940s (don't know why I kept
them, maybe they're worth something now)!
Also in the box some old currency, pennies, halfpennies, silver
threepences etc.
> The most beautiful US commemorative stamps to me were
>from the early part of the 20th century I particular like the
>Columbian exposition stamps from about 1903. They were
>monochromatic, with rather busy depictions of historical
>themes, and the borders were ornate like an old-fashioned
>picture frame.
>
I remember liking the colourful Tannou Touva stamps when I was a
youngster.
--
Gordon
rumpelstiltskin
I should have mentioned the bird set. I still have a sheet of
those too. I was surprised the mockingbird was the state bird of so
many southern states until we finally had a mockingbird near my
mom's house in Massachusetts when I visited there. It sang long
after dark, and then I understood.
I remember the old small-size presidential set. Martha Washington
was on the half-cent stamp, and I think Monticello was on the
one-and-a-half cent stamp. There's been another presidential set,
commemorative size but vertical instead of the usual horizontal, since
then as I'm sure you remember, twenty-two cent stamps of the
presidents up to the time they were printed. I have a set of those in
my cabinet drawer too. I just checked and the last president is
Lyndon Johnson. I didn't think it was that long ago.
I liked the dinosaur set too, just because I retain my adolescent
fascination with dinosaurs, though that set quite definitely falls
into the commercial category of which you so rightly complain.
There was a National Parks set from the '30's or '40's that was
pretty good. I remember the Yosemite stamp. At the time, in my
ignorance, I pronounced it "Yoze might".
I did buy the latest series of postcard-motif stamps of the fifty
states earlier this year, but am using them all up because they're
so ugly.
>I gave up collecting in the 1970s when it seemed the US was trying to
>outdo the Communist bloc countries as who could put out most ugly stamps
>per year.
FDR was a stamp collector, who started the fad, as I recall.
Those are beautiful. I collected coins too, though I got most
in circulation and only bought a couple. One that I did buy, not
expensive at the time, was a thick Indian-head penny. I collected
in the 1960's before all the old coins got snapped up, so I got
fairly substantial sets of the Buffalo nickels and liberty dimes, and
even a few of the standing-liberty dimes. In childhood, my dad
even gave me a couple of "V" nickels that he got in circulation.
rumpelstiltskin
wrote:
>In article <l2kpnu428lv0aoc1m...@4ax.com>, rumpelstiltskin
><PleaseDoNot...@nowhere.net> writes
>>
>> I used to collect stamps in my teens, which I'm not proud
>>of because it seems to me now an unbelievably stupid way
>>to have spent my very limited cash. I can't recall ever seeing
>>Hitler's face on a stamp, or Stalin's or Mussolini's, though it
>>seems there must be some in my collection.
>
>I have four stamps with Hitler's head on them. They are in the same
>box as some tram tickets form back in the 1940s (don't know why I kept
>them, maybe they're worth something now)!
>Also in the box some old currency, pennies, halfpennies, silver
>threepences etc.
I have some nice old coins too, both English and American.
I have a Welch coin dated sometime in the eleventh century,
but that must be a different dating system since it's obviously
not that old. My oldest reasonable condition coin is a sixpence
from about 1760.
"Old" has a different meaning in America. People say "wow,
this was built in 1750!". When I was a kid, Conisborough
Castle, originally built in the eleventh century though I think
most of what's there now is reconstruction, was within walking
distance.
>> The most beautiful US commemorative stamps to me were
>>from the early part of the 20th century I particular like the
>>Columbian exposition stamps from about 1903. They were
>>monochromatic, with rather busy depictions of historical
>>themes, and the borders were ornate like an old-fashioned
>>picture frame.
>>
>I remember liking the colourful Tannou Touva stamps when I was a
>youngster.
Well, you've discovered a benefit I can point to from my
collecting stamps - I know where Tannu Tuva is! I even know
the name of its capital city, Kyzil, which is probably just a bunch
of yurts. There was someplace in the Pacific that wasn't even
a country, that put out colorful stamps for sale to collectors too.
I think it started with "M". Even in Britain, some dude who
owned an island put out stamps with puffins on them and
probably made a fortune selling them to dumb kids like me.
Gary James
>On Mon, 09 Sep 2002 14:41:38 GMT, gnjames4...@yahoo.com (Gary
>James) wrote:
>
>>>Gary, I saw a lot of Nazi propaganda posters and other Nazi
>>>parphenalia at the Imperial War Museum in London. And they
>>>were chilling, indeed. Most chilling was a replica of an SS member
>>>in full regalia, including the death's head insignia. I also saw
>>>Nazi propaganda posters and Nazi art at the Pompidou in
>>>Paris -- a special exhibition I was lucky enough to stumble in
>>>on. Also posters from Franco's Spain.
>>
>>Well, I am surprised they would allow it in Paris.
>
>You would be surprised what you can find in Paris:)
I bet I wouldn't . I have always heard they allow (encourage ?)
anything except free speech.
>>(BTW, if you do build a web page, please don't do like Mel and put it
>>on AOL where no one can see it)
>
>I would not go near AOL. I do have a web page showing propaganda
>posters aimed at women during World War II. The slides display well
>only using Internet Explorer 5 or later, however. People trying to
>view them with Netscape see only partial views. It is difficult to do
>some kinds of web pages to suit all browsers.
>
>http://home.nyc.rr.com/mygallery/
NIce page. My vague recollection was that Rosie was a slender,
blushing young thing. Yours looks like she is fixing to do things
with that air-hammer that the designer did not envision ;>
>>I don't have any American propoganda but would like to see some.
>>
>>I was not old enough to see it at the time but I have seen WW2
>>propoganda that insisted the Japs were tossing babies into the air an
>>catching them opn their bayonets.
>
>The Japanese did do horrific things. Read a bit about what they did
>when they invaded China.
I use to know a Dutch couple who had spent WW2 in a Japanese
concentration camp. He had been manager of a plantation in Indo
China before being arrested. They were sent ot different camps and
neither knew about the other until the war ended. They had a rough
time.
Speaking of treacherous Japs let me tell you how my father was killed
in WW2. I've never posted this before.
He was a Marine and was wounded during the invasion of Iwo Jima.
Feb of 1944. I was not yet two.
Anyway, it seems his wounds were not life threatening and he, along
with many others, were ferried to a Hospital Ship. With Red Crosses
all over it.
Just after daybreak a lone Japanese bomber happened to break through
security and see this ship. The pilot crashed into it. He
apparenty had several bombs aboard and the Red Cross ship went down.
It was 1947 before the remains of the men were brought up and sent
home for burial.
I mention this is only for one reason: I have (possibly rightfully)
been called a racist by members of this group. If so, should I not
hate the Crafty Japs ? Problem is, I never have. They are an
advanced, civilized race of people.
>
>Our late Mayor, Rudi Guiliani, was offended by a painting that
>he took to be anti-Catholic and tried to cut off city funding for the
>Brooklyn Museum. The laugh was that the painting had been
>done by an African Catholic and was not at all offensive taken
>from his point of view.
Despite all the press coverage to the contrary, I only think of Guli
as a big town redneck, Like his fellow adulterers Slick and Newt.
>Thinking about this so annoyed me I just
>spilled my coffee on my computer desktop:)
>
So far I have never spilled any in mine. But then I never get a cup
within 10 feet for I know it would end up in the key board :-)
rumpelstiltskin
James) wrote:
>>The Japanese did do horrific things. Read a bit about what they did
>>when they invaded China.
>
>I use to know a Dutch couple who had spent WW2 in a Japanese
>concentration camp. He had been manager of a plantation in Indo
>China before being arrested. They were sent ot different camps and
>neither knew about the other until the war ended. They had a rough
>time.
The great pianist Lily Kraus had the misfortune of being in
Indonesia when the Japanese invaded. She spent about two
years in a cage. She was in such bad shape when she was
rescued it was said she would never play again, but she
came back, all the way.
When anybody says "Hiroshima", I say "Nanking", and
when they say "Dresden", I say "Rotterdam".
Gary James
<PleaseDoNot...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 09 Sep 2002 16:01:42 -0400, Gary James
><gnja...@nonspamYahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>rumpelstiltskin wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, 09 Sep 2002 14:41:38 GMT, gnjames4...@yahoo.com (Gary
>>> James) wrote:
>>I have three other framed stamp sets. The Presidential series circa
>>1940s, the Famous Americans set and the sheet of 50 birds that came out
>>in the late 1970s.
>
>
> I should have mentioned the bird set. I still have a sheet of
>those too. I was surprised the mockingbird was the state bird of so
>many southern states until we finally had a mockingbird near my
>mom's house in Massachusetts when I visited there. It sang long
>after dark, and then I understood.
We have two pair of mockingbirds in the back yard this year. I
believe each pair had two sets of babies. They are very
territorial. We have an old swing set near the center of the yard
and it is rare that one is not perched out there keeping an eye on the
house.
> I remember the old small-size presidential set. Martha Washington
>was on the half-cent stamp, and I think Monticello was on the
>one-and-a-half cent stamp. There's been another presidential set,
>commemorative size but vertical instead of the usual horizontal, since
>then as I'm sure you remember, twenty-two cent stamps of the
>presidents up to the time they were printed. I have a set of those in
>my cabinet drawer too. I just checked and the last president is
>Lyndon Johnson. I didn't think it was that long ago.
>
> I liked the dinosaur set too, just because I retain my adolescent
>fascination with dinosaurs, though that set quite definitely falls
>into the commercial category of which you so rightly complain.
>
> There was a National Parks set from the '30's or '40's that was
>pretty good. I remember the Yosemite stamp. At the time, in my
>ignorance, I pronounced it "Yoze might".
>
> I did buy the latest series of postcard-motif stamps of the fifty
>states earlier this year, but am using them all up because they're
>so ugly.
>
>
>>I gave up collecting in the 1970s when it seemed the US was trying to
>>outdo the Communist bloc countries as who could put out most ugly stamps
>>per year.
>
> FDR was a stamp collector, who started the fad, as I recall.
Probably true. He was the most well known collector. I have
visited his old home in Warm Springs GA (The Little White House) and
they have several stamp sets displayed that he use to own.
>>Here is a view of some older gold coins:
>>
>>http://www.coinmaven.com/collection.html#collection
>
> Those are beautiful. I collected coins too, though I got most
>in circulation and only bought a couple. One that I did buy, not
>expensive at the time, was a thick Indian-head penny. I collected
>in the 1960's before all the old coins got snapped up, so I got
>fairly substantial sets of the Buffalo nickels and liberty dimes, and
>even a few of the standing-liberty dimes. In childhood, my dad
>even gave me a couple of "V" nickels that he got in circulation.
I believe the most beautiful work of art I ever personally held was a
mint $20 gold piece. A St Gaudens, I think was what it was called.
The problem with coins was that at some point we had to start buying
everything. And it was all expensive after the mid 1960s. I built
a pretty good 19th century "type" set. It was very beautiful
although all used. I made the mistake of selling it. I was never
able to come near replacing it.
Gary James
<PleaseDoNot...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
> Well, you've discovered a benefit I can point to from my
>collecting stamps - I know where Tannu Tuva is! I even know
>the name of its capital city, Kyzil, which is probably just a bunch
>of yurts. There was someplace in the Pacific that wasn't even
>a country, that put out colorful stamps for sale to collectors too.
>I think it started with "M". Even in Britain, some dude who
>owned an island put out stamps with puffins on them and
>probably made a fortune selling them to dumb kids like me.
You make a good point that I had forgotten. That is that most kids
who collect stamps develop a very good knowledge of geography.
Helvtia for Switzerland is one of the few I can recall. But as a
child we had to learn all that to place a stamp in it's country.
I think it also helped develop an interest in history. After seeing
all the Swiss stamps of William Tell it was only normal to want to
read the story. Same with Pitcairn Island stamps and the HMS Bounty.
Rita
James) wrote:
>
>Speaking of treacherous Japs let me tell you how my father was killed
>in WW2. I've never posted this before.
>
>He was a Marine and was wounded during the invasion of Iwo Jima.
>
>Feb of 1944. I was not yet two.
>
>Anyway, it seems his wounds were not life threatening and he, along
>with many others, were ferried to a Hospital Ship. With Red Crosses
>all over it.
>
>Just after daybreak a lone Japanese bomber happened to break through
>security and see this ship. The pilot crashed into it. He
>apparenty had several bombs aboard and the Red Cross ship went down.
>
>It was 1947 before the remains of the men were brought up and sent
>home for burial.
That is very sad, Gary. The Japanese did not hesitate to go for
Red Cross ships, which is, of course, against all civilized behavior.
>
>I mention this is only for one reason: I have (possibly rightfully)
>been called a racist by members of this group. If so, should I not
>hate the Crafty Japs ? Problem is, I never have. They are an
>advanced, civilized race of people.
Yes, the Japanese were portrayed in very racist ways. The
behavior of their government and their armed forces was, of
course, beyond the pale in many instances. But Japanese
Americans fought in World War II and my family was lucky
enough to be friends with three of them while they were training
in the Midwest. They enlisted the day after Pearl Harbor.
Ward Stewart
As far as Harry Truman's dropping those horrible bombs it is clear
that those bombs SAVED many hundreds of thousands if not millions of
Japanese lives. The Japanese were prepared to fight a war down to the
last suicidal gasp.
ward
--------------------------------------------------------------
"A lot of Jews are great friends of mine. They swarm around me
and are friendly to me. Because they know that I am friendly
to Israel and so forth. But they don't know how I really feel
about what they're doing to this country, and I have no power
and no way to handle them."
Billy Graham to Nixon (on the tapes)
-------------------------------------------------------------
rumpelstiltskin
I still have my old coins around, though there's nothing that's
worth a great deal. I rarely look at them anymore. I did get a
late-Victoria farthing and halfpenny from my mothers house
last time I was there, since I had no farthings or halfpennies
in my collection for some reason. Those and the threepenny
bit were my favorite coins as a little kid. The old threepenny
bit had something that looks like three dandelions on the
back, though I think they're some kind of thistle. It was later
replaced with a portcullis. The halfpenny has a beautiful
sailing ship on it, and the farthing has an alert-looking bird
standing, not flying, that looks like a sparrow of some kind.
I'm going to buy a complete set of late-Victoria coins when
I'm in England. I had a five- and a twenty-dollar gold piece
once left by my father, but it was in a small lockbox in my
mother's closet. One time when she went to England the,
house was broken into and the box was among the things
stolen. She always felt the thieves were from one particular
family of new neighbors that had moved into one of the
houses behind our house where a cow-pasture used to be,
which just increased her dislike of the suburbanization
growing up around her. When we moved there, you could
only see two other houses from our house, but now it looks
like any old suburb.
rumpelstiltskin
And "Suomi" for Finland and "Sverige" for Sweden.
A couple of years back, I drew maps of Europe and of the
USA to see if I still knew them. The shapes were limited by
my artistic abilities, but I had all the border meetings correct.
Gordon
<PleaseDoNot...@nowhere.net> writes
> The old threepenny
>bit had something that looks like three dandelions on the
>back, though I think they're some kind of thistle. It was later
>replaced with a portcullis.
I have a portcullis one.
> The halfpenny has a beautiful
>sailing ship on it,
And one of those.
> and the farthing has an alert-looking bird
>standing, not flying, that looks like a sparrow of some kind.
That's a wren, it should have a tail which points upwards.
>I'm going to buy a complete set of late-Victoria coins when
>I'm in England. I had a five- and a twenty-dollar gold piece
>once left by my father, but it was in a small lockbox in my
>mother's closet. One time when she went to England the,
>house was broken into and the box was among the things
>stolen. She always felt the thieves were from one particular
>family of new neighbors that had moved into one of the
>houses behind our house where a cow-pasture used to be,
>which just increased her dislike of the suburbanization
>growing up around her. When we moved there, you could
>only see two other houses from our house, but now it looks
>like any old suburb.
>
--
Gordon
rumpelstiltskin
wrote:
>In article <ppksnugbbn3229dbr...@4ax.com>, rumpelstiltskin
><PleaseDoNot...@nowhere.net> writes
>
>> The old threepenny
>>bit had something that looks like three dandelions on the
>>back, though I think they're some kind of thistle. It was later
>>replaced with a portcullis.
>
>I have a portcullis one.
>
>> The halfpenny has a beautiful
>>sailing ship on it,
>
>And one of those.
>
>> and the farthing has an alert-looking bird
>>standing, not flying, that looks like a sparrow of some kind.
>
>That's a wren, it should have a tail which points upwards.
So it does! I should have looked before I posted.
I had Victoria on my mind when I posted. The farthing and
halfpenny aren't Victoria. The farthing is Elizabeth. I didn't
look for the halfpenny but it's probably Liz or George VI.
My oldest English coins are:
Two very thick pennies with little detail visible to me. I can
read "Georgius" on one, but no number, which may be due
to the weathering or maybe because it was George I. The
other seems to be the same king but there's even less
detail visible.
Sixpence, George II. It's worn around the edges, including
the date, though an expert could probably decipher the date
from what faint markings are left. The coat of arms and the
silhouette at least of the king's head are clear.
A penny, two halfpennies, and a farthing from the reign of
George III. One of the halfpennies is in fair condition and is
dated 1775, The farthing is xx99, presumably 1799. I can't
make out the date on the others. Both the farthing and the
halfpennies have a seated Britannia on the reverse.
A George IV farthing in pretty good condition dated 1826.
A medallion celebrating William and Adelaide's ascension
on June 26 1830, silver and a bit smaller in size than a shilling
but much thinner. Somebody unfortunately bored a hole
through the top, so they could wear it around their neck, I
guess.
Gary James
rumpelstiltskin wrote:
>
>
> My oldest English coins are:
>
> Two very thick pennies with little detail visible to me. I can
> read "Georgius" on one, but no number, which may be due
> to the weathering or maybe because it was George I.
I had one of those. I loaned it to a girl in high school and never saw
either again. I think they called them Cartwheels. I can't remember
who was on mine.
The
> other seems to be the same king but there's even less
> detail visible.
>
> Sixpence, George II. It's worn around the edges, including
> the date, though an expert could probably decipher the date
> from what faint markings are left. The coat of arms and the
> silhouette at least of the king's head are clear.
One of my favorite minor possessions is an English coin I didn't even
realize I had until about 6 years ago when I emptied out a sockful of
old coins I had since childhood.
It is a silver sixpence in VF shape. It has the profile bust of George
3rd and is dated 1787. The year the founders signed the U.S.
Constitution.
I put it into a small frame with a green velvet background and it now
resides with my miniature collection.