[Repost] Nadal Malik Hasan - role model: bang! bang!
Jim_Higgins
THE MAN
Nadal Malik Hasan has been a Muslim fanatic for a long, long time. His
fanaticism compelled him to build a website praising Muslim suicide
bombers, support Jihadists and their mission, identify with America's
enemies in middle east military operations, fight deployment overseas,
and finally - make Fort Hood his personal battlefield, killing and
wounding dozens. Until that massacre, he was just a fanatic like many
other American Muslims, but on Thursday he attained his personal destiny
as a murderer.
THE OPPORTUNITY
Despite Hasan's professional incompetence, hatred of the United States,
and support of murderous Jihad, the officer corps made many compromises
to keep him on active duty. Hasan's Palestinian roots, pro-violence
rantings, anti-west website, and overt Jihadist intentions should have
put him on the "No-Fly" list. Instead, we gave him an education, a
uniform, and authority - plus the funds with which to arm himself and an
opportunity to vent his rage.
THE MEDIA
Fox: "Investigators search for a motive in the Ft. Hood killings..."
CNN: "...authorities searched for a motive in the massacre..."
Yahoo News: "Motive probed in Fort Hood shooting rampage..."
Talk show: "What could have been going through Hasan's mind?"
MOTIVE?
Hasan was just one more angry Muslim that embraced active Jihad. Some
such murderers strap explosives to their bodies and get on buses, drive
cars loaded with TNT into shopping centers, or fly airplanes into
buildings. For all of them, including Hasan, the "motive" is simply a
desire to scream the Takbir -- Allahu Akbar! -- and then trigger a
bloodbath.
THE LIBERAL VIEW
The Nation and other liberal media say it's "Islamophobia" to identify
Hasan as a Muslim, as a Palestinian. He used such labels, so how else
should others characterize him? Liberal news sources like The Nation
prefer that we avoid reference to ethnicity and religiosity of Hasan and
other Jihadists.
QUESTIONS
--How many American Muslims see Hasan as a hero, to be emulated?
--What is the maximum tolerable annual number of Jihadist attacks on
U.S. military bases?
--Should the U.S. military continue to allow Muslims to serve?
--If so, what precautions might help minimize casualties from the
inevitable internal attacks of the future?
--Should all Jihadists on active duty wear uniforms of a different
color, or just those planning to embark upon suicide-murder?
--Has reality finally proven that there's good reason for Islamophobia?
High Miles
> [Reposted from another newsgroup]
THE LIBERAL VIEW
The Nation and other liberal media say it's "Islamophobia" to identify
Hasan as a Muslim, as a Palestinian. He used such labels, so how else
should others characterize him? Liberal news sources like The Nation
prefer that we avoid reference to ethnicity and religiosity of Hasan and
other Jihadists.
I agree.
Lots of people all over the world hate us.
Probably quite a few would kill us if they could.
Still no reason to mention religion.
Boy I wish it had been a catholic nut.
What a different story it would be.
Just an isolated nut. On drugs. Mentally deranged.
But would his choice of fantasy faith have been mentioned ?
Jim_Higgins
Chill and reflect.
High Miles
Do you deny that the story would have read very differently if his religion
were not a hot issue here ?
Do you not see the same type of attitude that permeated this country
over the centuries ?
Jim_Higgins
He IS a Muslim. Fact. That is the situation. What-ifs do not count.
High Miles
But why is worse than if he were...........................Baptist ?
The crime would have not been less heinous would it ?
Isn't this just the sort of incident all those predictors of terrible terror
have been waiting for ?
Are you positive it wouldn't have happened if he were NOT Muslim ?
Don't other sorts of people go nuts and kill ?
This seems to just be another way to label all Muslims as terrorists.
Evelyn
"High Miles" <2blue...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4jpJm.20428$gg6....@newsfe25.iad...
> Jim_Higgins wrote:
>> He IS a Muslim. Fact. That is the situation. What-ifs do not count.
>
> But why is worse than if he were...........................Baptist ?
> The crime would have not been less heinous would it ?
> Isn't this just the sort of incident all those predictors of terrible
> terror
> have been waiting for ?
> Are you positive it wouldn't have happened if he were NOT Muslim ?
> Don't other sorts of people go nuts and kill ?
> This seems to just be another way to label all Muslims as terrorists.
Timothy McVeigh was a home grown terrorist. He was also a Christian. IMO
religion is only incidental to their insanity and fanaticism. There are
wackos in every faith. We have a couple of Muslim congressmen right now.
One of them commented that when he first heard of the attack, he was saying
" Oh, I hope it isn't a Muslim" I understood what he meant, because there
ARE plenty of decent American hard-working muslims here!
Last evening I went to my local volunteer firehouse for a chicken dinner
fundraiser. One woman who was standing out in the freezing cold selling
baked goods, and who is the mother of two top local doctors, is a MUSLIM.
She doesn't cover her hair or her face. She is a lovely, sweet, nice woman
and both her children are doctors, specialists we have both been treated by.
I like her and her family. They are good people and contribute to the
community in every way.
I agree that the fact this murderous wacko is a Muslim is a bad thing. But
the ones who will be unfairly hurt by his unconscionable act will be the
decent Muslims who live and work in this country and are good American
citizens.
Fanaticism is a human problem, not the property of any one religious group.
Recently a doctor named Tiller was murdered on a Sunday right in his own
church by a fundamentalist wacko. That guy was not a Muslim..... and he
was egged on by none other than O'Reilly on FAUX news who repeatedly
mentioned his name and location as an invitation to such fanatics.
If anything and anyone is to blame it is the fundamentalists of the world of
ALL religions that breed them. They and they alone have lost sight of true
human values.
All living things want a place to live, food to eat, and to raise their
children and grandchildren. Those are the true human values which all
people want. Add religion to the mix and all sorts of horrors can and do
happen.
I happen to believe that the Muslim religion is a huge crock of steaming bat
guano, but so are all the others. Pot/Kettle. Only hypocrites just only
hate the Muslim terrorists and give terrorists of other varieties a pass.
--
Evelyn
"Even as a mother protects with her life her only child, So with a boundless
heart let one cherish all living beings." --Sutta Nipata 1.8
Jim_Higgins
Unfortunately you can read stories every day of these fools that believe
Imams that teach them suicide murder for the Glory of Allah(tm) is
great-but the Imams always never quite get there. The Koran is pro jihad
taught in many Muslim countries. Islam is the enemy.
Evelyn
"Jim_Higgins" <gordi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hd6nks$h70$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
Jim,
Likewise the fundamentalist anti-abortion nuts say that if you kill a doctor
who performs abortions that god is smiling on you and you are going to
heaven. How is that any different than the 99 virgins Muslim killers
expect in heaven for killing non believers?
Sorry. It is ALL poisonous evil mind-garbage.
The only real truth is love and tolerance and kindness to all living beings.
That is the real heaven and it can be had right here if only people stop
killing the killers and hating the haters.
sr
you would be in denial, even with your last dying breath
sr
He says while his head is deeply embedded in the Sand with his ass in the
air
-------------------------->
sr
------------There are sleeper cells here in the Universities, In Government,
in every walk of life, excuse anyone that points that out, including Bill
that pointed out the extremist at the FL university. He was arrested for
activities
Dream on little lady
--------------
"Evelyn" <evely...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hd6j6j$j21$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
sr
blind"
"Evelyn" <evely...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hd6or2$vru$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Evelyn
"sr" <sol...@uninets.net> wrote in message
news:315df$4af6f9f7$ccb58416$27...@ispn.net...
>
> "Evelyn" <evely...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hd6or2$vru$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> Likewise the fundamentalist anti-abortion nuts say that if you kill a
>> doctor who performs abortions that god is smiling on you and you are
>> going to heaven. How is that any different than the 99 virgins Muslim
>> killers expect in heaven for killing non believers?
>>
>> Sorry. It is ALL poisonous evil mind-garbage.
>>
>> The only real truth is love and tolerance and kindness to all living
>> beings. That is the real heaven and it can be had right here if only
>> people stop killing the killers and hating the haters.
> Don't have Love to the extent that you are blinded to the facts "Love is
> blind"
That is speaking of romantic or emotional love. I am not. Loving
kindness to all beings is in a whole other category. It is not a selfish
thing at all, yet it includes oneself. Loving self and others is healthy.
Loving only oneself is not.
If you scratch the surface of the kind of rage that caused the shooting, you
will find self hatred, not self love.
Evelyn
> Oh Ya, it's O'Reilly's fault, everyone's fault except the NUT JOB
> ------------There are sleeper cells here in the Universities, In
> Government, in every walk of life, excuse anyone that points that out,
> including Bill that pointed out the extremist at the FL university. He
> was arrested for activities
> Dream on little lady
Yes, it was definitely something O'Reilly had a part in, so don't deny it.
And I absolutely blame the "nut job" for what he did. Apparently in your
haste to top post, you never read a word I said.
@nowhere.com Jim E
wrote:
Who are these fundamentalist anti-abortion nuts? Fundamentalist covers
a large territory?
@nowhere.com Jim E
wrote:
>Loving self and others is healthy.
>Loving only oneself is not.
So you are saying that you are not health. I agree.
@nowhere.com Jim E
How can you tell with your head in your ass
>
@nowhere.com Jim E
Sorry about that Sr, I'm getting as bad as Hal, Not looking at the
author of the post close enough. I was thinking it was High M and hit
the send button when I realized that you were writing it.
Evelyn
"Jim E" <noyb @nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:muref55ktskt20u6e...@4ax.com...
There are fundamentalists in EVERY religion. They are people who take
their faith and turn it into a weapon of power. First over their children,
whom they indoctrinate fiercely, then over their community and country,
using whatever law or force is necessary. They are so adamant and so
insistent, they will do anything including behead people, murder people, and
more. It is a power trip, not a matter of personal faith, but they will
tell you it is about their faith. It doesn't matter which religion it is,
since it is a personal way of approaching religion, not the religion itself.
The puritans were fundamentalists, the FLDS are fundamentalists, the Hasidic
jews are fundamentalists, and if you study history you will see that the
Catholics and Protestants alike are guilty of the same kinds of extremism.
The inquisition, the heretic burnings....... and now we have a new form,
the anti-abortion fanatics who murder doctors and the fundamentalists who
shelter, feed and protect them, like they did for Eric Rudolph who hid for
years.... with help. Who are they? Look into Randall Terry and his
bunch. Anyone using religion to push their power agendas and to enforce
all to believe as they do is all it takes to fit under that umbrella.
Fundamentalists are an evil lot.
Evelyn
I didn't say that, and your agreement is just more of the typical poison
that comes from your keyboard.
Evelyn
"Jim E" <noyb @nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:cgsef55bkbjq9ntks...@4ax.com...
Ah admitting you are an ignorant ass. Yes, I agree.
normak
Well, Evelyn, perhaps if you would read the Qur'an a bit, you might see why
this particular religion is more prone to this type of wacky behavior when
they become mentally off balanced. You might learn something. Muslims
usually won't get so literal with their interpretation of the "word" on the
page, but it is obvious to those who have lived with a very observant Muslim
population, that it is a definite possibility at any time with those prone
to act out in what they perceive to be a defense of themselves and the
religion.
Our President did, after all, attend a Muslim school, and was required to
memorize the Qur'an for that time. He should be well aware of all of this
type of reaction, and so, instead of denial, should try to help others
understand how it could happen. However, he turns his back and pretends it
isn't there or it didn't happen or whatever seems to be the order of the day
for him.
Norma
Evelyn
"normak" <njk...@qREMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
news:AqydnQ1zzObckWXX...@giganews.com...
Norma, he was only a little boy when he went there, and notice that he left
and went to live with his grandmother in Hawaii after only a relatively
short time, even leaving his mother and sister behind. Apparently he and
the Muslim way of life were not a good fit.
I have Muslim friends, and I know they are deeply religious, even though
they are not fanatical.
I appreciate your knowledge of Islamic culture, but I must tell you that
many years ago I did read the Quran, and it just didn't inspire or interest
me, either then or now. Thank goodness.
normak
Me either, but, once, memorized, it doesn't leave the memory. Maybe he is
doesn't want to get into that, but, then he should at least addres the
matter of what has happened, instead of ignoring it. Perhaps he fears if he
does get involved in any way with his knowledge, it would be to his
disadvantage, but I know he remembers what they drill into the minds of
those boys. What a pity, as Bush #1 and Barbara visited the families at
Fort Hood on the week-end, but our President did other things. That has
been noted in significant places. He needs to get more interactive skills
with the citizens in this country as it is severely handicapping him. It
seems the feeling is that he is ignoring the whole incident in how it has
been handled, and that impression will hamper him.
Norma
@nowhere.com Jim E
wrote:
>
>"Jim E" <noyb @nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news:73sef5hgq8g1q5rl9...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 13:33:51 -0500, "Evelyn" <evely...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Loving self and others is healthy.
>>>Loving only oneself is not.
>> So you are saying that you are not health. I agree.
>
>I didn't say that, and your agreement is just more of the typical poison
>that comes from your keyboard.
Sure you did, "Loving self and others is healthy.
Loving only oneself is not." Since you love only yourself you are
saying you are not healthy.
@nowhere.com Jim E
wrote:
No, I'm admitting I made a mistake. You are the ignorant ass plus a
(____!_____) to boot.
@nowhere.com Jim E
wrote:
Like usual you didn't answer the question, I'll rephrase it:
Who are these fundamentalist anti-abortion nuts say that if you kill a
doctor who performs abortions that god is smiling on you and you are
going to heaven?
High Miles
Ev - talk to the wall.
Old Norma hates the president and will hate anything he tries to do.
She'll never admit that his hands are tied by the sore losers.
All she posts for is criticism of the current administration.
Evelyn
"normak" <njk...@qREMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
Norma, Obama explained that he didn't go to school to learn Islam. He
went to a school where there were several religious groups represented, and
a general education was taught, but at a certain point in the day they
separated according to their various religions. At any rate, the man has
been a Christian for all his adult life, so it is a moot point, excepting
for those who choose to trot it out as a means of discrediting him. I
don't know how he views this current incident but I am sure he is as
horrified as any one else.
Evelyn
"Rita" <Ri...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:s4dgf5hp36kj89mrl...@4ax.com...
> Catholic school for two years. The public school did include Muslim
> sbut also students from other religions. It has been investigated and
> the notion it was a radical Muslim school has been
> debunked. CNN sent reporters there and talked to countless people
> who had been students there with him at the time and they all
> avered there was no religious indoctrination.
>
> Obama's mother was a free thinker and took him to religious services
> of all types. As an anthropologist she was interested in religion but
> not dedicated to any.
>
> I would hope we don't have to revisit the accusations made during
> the campaign in this respect.
The GOP slime machine never sleeps, and no lie is ever debunked.
Evelyn
I am not your fucking secretary. Do your own research.
Rumpelstiltskin
<snip>
>The GOP slime machine never sleeps, and no lie is ever debunked.
It never will stop.
@nowhere.com Jim E
Evelyn
Of course I can. I won't because you are another dishonest communicator.
If you want a half a clue, look into the Westboro Baptist Church first.
There are others. Then you can listen to O'Reilly clips on youtube in
which he called Dr. Tiller "Tiller the baby killer" over and over again.
@nowhere.com Jim E
wrote:
No, because you are a liar, and you can't answer!!!!
>If you want a half a clue, look into the Westboro Baptist Church first.
>There are others. Then you can listen to O'Reilly clips on youtube in
>which he called Dr. Tiller "Tiller the baby killer" over and over again.
Still talking circles... Who are these fundamentalist anti-abortion
Olly Mensch
think I agree with what you wrote about his handling of the psychiatrist
who shot so many people, and who is a Muslim.
I do not recall that Obama denied any of this; in fact, he will be
attending the final ceremony at Ft. Hood. whether out of personal
conviction or out of savvy politics - he will surely say all the right
things.
I do not really know what his present-day religious convictions are - or
where he belongs. After leaving the Rev. Wright church (how could he
have stayed so long with that fanatic) he seems to still not have joined
any church in Washington - - which makes me wonder?? But he did not
seem to be in denial of the incident at all; even if he somehow or other
agreed with the mad shooter (and how could he - as president!!!) he
could not ever publicly state that!!
Olly
Olly Mensch
and give a speech. So, he is not really ignoring anything. It is a
"ticklish" issue for him.
Olly
sr
>>Of course I can. I won't because you are another dishonest communicator.
> No, because you are a liar, and you can't answer!!!!
>>If you want a half a clue, look into the Westboro Baptist Church first.
>>There are others. Then you can listen to O'Reilly clips on youtube in
>>which he called Dr. Tiller "Tiller the baby killer" over and over again.
So what,
========speaking the truth, I would say====
Well, did Dr. Tiller kill babies, how many thousands were killed by his
hand. Some say 10 of thousands
Late term abortions, which means that the late stage baby would live
outside the body
Tiller personally made at least $684,000 killing viable babies in
2003(6000.)fee each child
1.3 million children a year,, in the U.S. are killed, someone is killing,
these children, this is including Dr. Tiller
and your tag is
> "Even as a mother protects with her life her only child, So with a
> boundless
heart let one cherish all living beings." --Sutta Nipata 1.8
Not all mothers protect her child, the tag is a farse, 1.3 million, at
least, are killed a year in the U.S.
The women's right to kill is strong, it seems. The liberal Progressives
pretty it up with "Women's Rights".
Evelyn
You are a bit slow aren't you? You could start by reading the newspaper.
In todays headlines, the man who shot Dr. Tiller has confessed that he did
it, and his defense will be that he was justified. This man is a
fundamentalist, by the way, who believes he was doing gods work by murdering
a doctor. I wasn't going to do your homework for you, but you seem to be
foundering here........
Evelyn
> facts are in. If he usurped the investigation by the military and the
> FBI.
>
> Why would it even enter your head to speculate that he agreed
> with the shooter? That sound like something the tea party crowd
> would say.
Actually it was Limbaugh who said. It was reported on MSNBC last evening,
accompanied by the proof of an actual video clip, pointing out how
absolutely outrageous a comment it was.
Evelyn
"Olly Mensch" <liese...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:17438-4AF...@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net...
He spoke and commented "we are all completely heartbroken by this tragedy"
Evelyn
"sr" <sol...@uninets.net> wrote in message
news:47c93$4af8e6f8$ccb5843b$20...@ispn.net...
Is the above hodgepodge some sort of an attempt to reply to my posting? If
so, you ought to learn to snip the superfluous material and only reply in a
readable fashion to the points you are trying to make. Until you can do
that, your newsgroup postings will be nearly if not totally, illegible.
And if I read the above mess correctly, YOU ARE MAKING MY POINT exactly that
fundamentalists JUSTIFY murdering doctors as some sort of godly activity.
LOL.
I am doing mental battle with the unarmed........ Sheesh!
--
Evelyn
NormaK
This is the very "least" the man could do about this tragedy, Olly. I
can't see why this impresses anyone at all. Afterall he is the POTUS.
When something like this happens, I don't think it is "ticklish" at
all for someone in his position.
Norma
NormaK
> facts are in. If he usurped the investigation by the military and the
> FBI.
>
> Why would it even enter your head to speculate that he agreed
> with the shooter? That sound like something the tea party crowd
> would say.
Who said he agreed with the shooter? This sounds llike a fantasy from
the far left. For heavens sake there is a lot of middle ground in all
this.
This group seems to operate on the all one way or the other, and
that's it. Life is nothing like that for normal people.
Norma
Evelyn
"NormaK" <njk...@q.com> wrote in message
news:8866ba83-5936-4187...@l2g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
What I don't understand is why this even came up....... Is it some attempt
to discredit the man before he even makes a misstep? That does seem to be
what is being implied, and to which Olly replied. Why is it an issue? He
is doing exactly what the POTUS does, and this morning I saw him saying "we
are all heartbroken" over the tragedy. He isn't ignoring it, he is doing
the right thing!!!!
Evelyn
Norma, that is EXACTLY what Rush Limbaugh said yesterday.... that Obama is
somehow in agreement with the shooter. I saw the clip on MSNBC. And it
certainly would NEVER come from the left, it is only the right that makes
such bizarre accusations.
normak
I certainly don't listen to Rush Limbaugh, and wouldn't be bothered by
anything he says. Let him spout what he wants.
Norma
Rumpelstiltskin
Since there's no chance you'd support Obama about
anything in any way, it's no loss to him if you or somebody
like Rush think he should have said something else after
you or somebody like Rush had heard what he did say.
normak
>
> "NormaK" <njk...@q.com> wrote in message
> news:8866ba83-5936-4187...@l2g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>> On Nov 9, 8:17 pm, lieselot...@webtv.net (Olly Mensch) wrote:
>>> Norma - - Obama will be attending the funeral ceremonies at Ft. Hood -
>>> and give a speech. So, he is not really ignoring anything. It is a
>>> "ticklish" issue for him.
>>> Olly
>>
>> This is the very "least" the man could do about this tragedy, Olly. I
>> can't see why this impresses anyone at all. Afterall he is the POTUS.
>>
>> When something like this happens, I don't think it is "ticklish" at
>> all for someone in his position.
>>
>> Norma
>
>
> What I don't understand is why this even came up....... Is it some attempt
> to discredit the man before he even makes a misstep? That does seem to
> be what is being implied, and to which Olly replied. Why is it an issue?
> He is doing exactly what the POTUS does, and this morning I saw him saying
> "we are all heartbroken" over the tragedy. He isn't ignoring it, he is
> doing the right thing!!!!
Let's just face it, there is no room here for independent thinkers, or for
any post that doesn't take a stand on the left or right.
I have never seen a group that was so "stuck" on everything. Apparently
there is no wish to have thoughts different than what have been generated by
anyone but those who are the "regulars". (I believe that is what another
thread called the core group.)
Norma
Rumpelstiltskin
>>>> Why would it even enter your head to speculate that he agreed
>>>> with the shooter? That sound like something the tea party crowd
>>>> would say.
>>>
>>> Who said he agreed with the shooter? This sounds llike a fantasy from
>>> the far left. For heavens sake there is a lot of middle ground in all
>>> this.
>>>
>>> This group seems to operate on the all one way or the other, and
>>> that's it. Life is nothing like that for normal people.
>>>
>>> Norma
>>
>>
>> Norma, that is EXACTLY what Rush Limbaugh said yesterday.... that Obama is
>> somehow in agreement with the shooter. I saw the clip on MSNBC. And
>> it certainly would NEVER come from the left, it is only the right that
>> makes such bizarre accusations.
>
>I certainly don't listen to Rush Limbaugh, and wouldn't be bothered by
>anything he says. Let him spout what he wants.
>
>Norma
Does than mean you now agree that it was not a
"fantasy from the far left" as you originally said?
normak
"Rumpelstiltskin" <nob...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:tttif5dft4e01rvjj...@4ax.com...
Thank you. I guess everyone has to be "in love" with Obama or we are
absolutely no good at all.
That's it for independent thought, I guess. But don't try to lump me in
with Rush Limbauh, just because I don't like everything that the POTUS does.
Norma
>
>
>
>
>
NormaK
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:22:44 -0600, "normak" <njk...@qREMOVETHIS.com>>"Evelyn" <evelyn.r...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
In my opinion, you are just as "far off the chart" as he is.
Norma
Rumpelstiltskin
wrote:
I don't think bitching about even the most
insignificant matters concerning Obama counts
as "independent thought".
Rumpelstiltskin
I see you're in bunker mode and don't want to answer
the question even though the evidence couldn't be
more visible. So I'll say goodbye now.
Evelyn
"normak" <njk...@qREMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
news:Vd-dnQ8TOue06mTX...@giganews.com...
I am much relieved to hear that.
Evelyn
How can you say that?
Evelyn
"normak" <njk...@qREMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
Norma, please don't get so defensive. If you have good reasons for the
things you are feeling, then just say them and why. It is all too easy to
get overly partisan in this newsgroup. Nobody in the whole world agrees
100% with any other person. Even parents and children, even lovers, even
best friends........ It would be unrealistic to expect it. I have a major
complaint with Obama right now myself. I want the wars ended now. I want
all our troops to come home. F**K Afghanistan and Iraq! We need to fix
our own country right now. But that doesn't mean I hate Obama, or think he
suddenly became a fool overnight. What I actually think is that there is
something we don't know and he does know, that he isn't releasing to the
public. What that could be is anyones guess.
Evelyn
> tragedy at Fort Hood? Opine on the causes before the
> investigation had even begun?
>
> What would ANY President say in initial comments on
> being informed of such an event? Fly immediately to
> Fort Hood and inject himself into the midst of the
> confusion there?
>
> Perhaps Norma should write out the statement of what she
> thinks he SHOULD have said and tell us what he SHOULD
> have done?
I would like to hear that too. Just complaining without being specific
doesn't help.
Evelyn
"normak" <njk...@qREMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
That is an unfair characterization. This group consists of all sorts and
all religions and all colors and everyone has a different opinion. Some
of us are more in accord with some others more, and some less. Just
complaining about the group doesn't cut it. You need to explain exactly
what and why and who and where and when.
Evelyn
"Emily" <Em...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:qpvif5ldda0b2n02f...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:27:50 -0600, "normak" <njk...@qREMOVETHIS.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Let's just face it, there is no room here for independent thinkers, or for
>>any post that doesn't take a stand on the left or right.
>
> one side or the other. It's true that most of us are firmly aligned
> with one party and will support that party no matter what the issue,
> but there are a few independents.
>
>>I have never seen a group that was so "stuck" on everything. Apparently
>>there is no wish to have thoughts different than what have been generated
>>by
>>anyone but those who are the "regulars". (I believe that is what another
>>thread called the core group.)
>
> If so, please tell us where it is.
>
> It isn't that this group only welcomes posts from long time regulars,
> but it is true that one is going to get a warmer reception from those
> on whichever side one supports, just like real life. Sometimes there
> are actually sane and civil discussions of issues. Stick around --
> you never know when that's going to happen.
Well said, Emily. I was trying to say that and you said it better.
High Miles
>
> In Indonesia Obama attended a public school for two years and a
> Catholic school for two years. The public school did include Muslim
> sbut also students from other religions. It has been investigated and
> the notion it was a radical Muslim school has been
> debunked. CNN sent reporters there and talked to countless people
> who had been students there with him at the time and they all
> avered there was no religious indoctrination.
>
> Obama's mother was a free thinker and took him to religious services
> of all types. As an anthropologist she was interested in religion but
> not dedicated to any.
>
> I would hope we don't have to revisit the accusations made during
> the campaign in this respect.
>
>
The bitter losers are SO desperate.
Some of the really dense ones will continue with this lie and others
like where he was born. They just have nothing else.
normak
"Emily" <Em...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:qpvif5ldda0b2n02f...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:27:50 -0600, "normak" <njk...@qREMOVETHIS.com>
> wrote:
>
>>any post that doesn't take a stand on the left or right.
>
> one side or the other. It's true that most of us are firmly aligned
> with one party and will support that party no matter what the issue,
> but there are a few independents.
>
>>there is no wish to have thoughts different than what have been generated
>>by
>>anyone but those who are the "regulars". (I believe that is what another
>>thread called the core group.)
>
> If so, please tell us where it is.
>
> It isn't that this group only welcomes posts from long time regulars,
> but it is true that one is going to get a warmer reception from those
> on whichever side one supports, just like real life. Sometimes there
> are actually sane and civil discussions of issues. Stick around --
> you never know when that's going to happen.
As an independent poster, I think I do.
Norma
normak
"Rita" <Ri...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:p80jf5dpcvqb4derf...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 06:25:54 -0800, Rumpelstiltskin
> <nob...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
> tragedy at Fort Hood? Opine on the causes before the
> investigation had even begun?
>
> What would ANY President say in initial comments on
> being informed of such an event? Fly immediately to
> Fort Hood and inject himself into the midst of the
> confusion there?
>
> Perhaps Norma should write out the statement of what she
> thinks he SHOULD have said and tell us what he SHOULD
> have done?
Rita,
Why don't you ask me? I am still here, but you seem to love the 3rd person?
If it was my family involved, I would have appreciated some warm words on
the TV, instead of after interspersing some awkward words amongst those to
the group he was already speaking to. A special conference at the very
least.
Go back to 911 and see what W did. I never liked that man, but he did a
good job at that time and country was comforted as well. This was a tragedy
for the country and the families involved.
You are blinded by hatred for one man and adoration of the other.
Norma
normak
Ditto to my post to Rita.
See, Emily, people can't speak to others than their own clique.
Norma
normak
Bitching to you, opining to me.
I love the bias of the left here. It is palpable.
Norma
>
>
normak
Ma'asalamma to you.
Norma
>
>
>
>
>
normak
Far right and far left, just have different words. No one is reasonable
about the whole thing.
Norma
normak
Maybe you could think about it and read with some neutrality. It isn't up
to me to point out what is happening on this group. I will just go back to
where it is a lot more comfortable.
I don't need to be any more exact than anyone else. You are the one who is
defensive now. I have seen what happens to those who don't agree with you
and the others on the left. It isn't charming or nice.
Norma
Evelyn
"normak" <njk...@qREMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
Seems like we could say the same thing in reverse in regard to you.
Evelyn
>
> My immediate thoughts and prayers are with the wounded and with the
> families of the fallen, and with those who live and serve at Fort
> Hood. These are men and women who have made the selfless and
> courageous decision to risk and at times give their lives to protect
> the rest of us on a daily basis. It's difficult enough when we lose
> these brave Americans in battles overseas. It is horrifying that they
> should come under fire at an Army base on American soil.
>
> He will meet with the families of the deceased today.
>
> I'd say it is you who are blinded. You are wrong he did not speak of
> and to the families.
>
> But since you are not satisfied with that, please write precisely what
> he SHOULD have said. Given your criticism that is the least we
> should expect of you.
Norma just seems to want to put people down and get all defensive and huffy.
She doesn't seem to want to give any constructive or explanatory comments,
and will bash Obama at the drop of a hat, while pretending to be an
independent. She certainly could've fooled me with that. She didn't
always sound that way. I remember some time ago having had some
interesting conversations with her. I am sorry she has chosen this path.
Evelyn
"normak" <njk...@qREMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
Bull. You are beyond reasonable discussion, and by characterizing those
you speak to as "left" you place yourself to the "right" rather than center.
And frankly if you go elsewhere, I have nothing to say about it. Go.....
by all means, if that is what you want to do.
normak
Of course you could, but I don't hate either one or adore either one. If
you have read my posts, you would know that. I was a Kennedy democrat, and
Obama will never top his personal touch.
However, what you and others fail to see, due your blindness, is that Obama
is being very careful about any identification with Islam, due to the
suspicions about his childhood experiences in the Madrassa in Asia. He had
to learn to recite the Qur'an there, and he won't forget that anytime soon.
I have seen those schools in Saudi, and been told by my male interns how
they are run.
Unfortunately in trying to hide all that or sweep it under the rug, he isn't
as humane as he ought to be in these situations. Bekieve me Clinton, the
Bushes (W and wife went directly to the base to support troops last week),
and presidents before, would have done it very differently.
I have seen those of you from the left complaining about Republicans and
others thinking he is Muslim, but you seem to miss the obvious facts that
those of us who are independent can see. His skin is very thin, when it come
sto any such identification, and he is into protecting his reputation, and,
at times like this, it shows.
His arrogant appearing demeanor isn't one of his best traits.
Norma
normak
You woudln't recognize anything that didn't completely agree with you and
Rita, and I don't play that kind of game.
Norma
normak
Anything not agreeing with you is far "right"--I got that a long time ago.
I didnt say I would go anywhere. I meant I would post mostly where I have
posted for years.
I do get your "wish" though, but no dice.
Norma
Evelyn
"normak" <njk...@qREMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
The only one playing a game here is you Norma. I have invited you to
discuss your issues point by point, but all you do is fuss and huff and
snort and I haven't got the patience to try and get you to speak your piece.
Evelyn
"normak" <njk...@qREMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
Well that is funny Norma. I don't consider myself far left at all.
I am more left, leaning a bit center. I am absolutely NOT to the right.
And I honestly don't really give a shit where you post.
Be happy (although I think that might be your biggest problem).
Evelyn
"normak" <njk...@qREMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
Far be it from me to suggest that you MIGHT be reading a lot into......
nothing much at all..........
Evelyn
> investigated.
>
> Reporting by CNN in Jakarta, Indonesia and Washington, D.C., shows the
> allegations that Obama attended a madrassa to be false. CNN dispatched
> Senior International Correspondent John Vause to Jakarta to
> investigate.
>
> He visited the Basuki school, which Obama attended from 1969 to 1971.
>
> "This is a public school. We don't focus on religion," Hardi Priyono,
> deputy headmaster of the Basuki school, told Vause. "In our daily
> lives, we try to respect religion, but we don't give preferential
> treatment."
>
> Vause reported he saw boys and girls dressed in neat school uniforms
> playing outside the school, while teachers were dressed in
> Western-style clothes.
>
> "I came here to Barack Obama's elementary school in Jakarta looking
> for what some are calling an Islamic madrassa ... like the ones that
> teach hate and violence in Pakistan and Afghanistan," Vause said on
> the "Situation Room" Monday. "I've been to those madrassas in Pakistan
> ... this school is nothing like that."
>
> Vause also interviewed one of Obama's Basuki classmates, Bandug
> Winadijanto, who claims that not a lot has changed at the school since
> the two men were pupils. Insight reported that Obama's political
> opponents believed the school promoted Wahhabism, a fundamentalist
> form of Islam, "and are seeking to prove it."
>
> "It's not (an) Islamic school. It's general," Winadijanto said. "There
> is a lot of Christians, Buddhists, also Confucian. ... So that's a
> mixed school."
>
> By the way, Norma, did it bother you at all working for the Saudi
> elites? Did what you learned there ever give you pause about
> having such employers?
>
>
>>
>>Unfortunately in trying to hide all that or sweep it under the rug, he
>>isn't
>>as humane as he ought to be in these situations. Bekieve me Clinton, the
>>Bushes (W and wife went directly to the base to support troops last week),
>>and presidents before, would have done it very differently.
>>
>>I have seen those of you from the left complaining about Republicans and
>>others thinking he is Muslim, but you seem to miss the obvious facts that
>>those of us who are independent can see. His skin is very thin, when it
>>come
>>sto any such identification, and he is into protecting his reputation,
>>and,
>>at times like this, it shows.
>>
>>His arrogant appearing demeanor isn't one of his best traits.
>
> You have made that crystal clear.
Will Norma muster up an answer to your clear and well researched
information?
I doubt it. I already posted to her earlier today that the school Obama
attended was a general school which quite a few different religions
attended, but she chose to ignore it then, and it comes up again now.
Unless it demeans or denigrates Obama, Norma isn't very open minded. She
dislikes the man for reasons which seem to have no basis in fact, and she
won't explain them with anything concrete, yet she accuses others of being
blind followers. Is it any better to blindly reject?
When I come up against that sort of thing, I wonder..... could it be
"prejudice?"
I don't regret voting for him, but I have a few bones to pick with him just
now myself.
Yet she pronounces me "far left" in her book.
Evelyn
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:47:34 -0500, "Evelyn" <evely...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>The only one playing a game here is you Norma. I have invited you to
>>discuss your issues point by point, but all you do is fuss and huff and
>>snort and I haven't got the patience to try and get you to speak your
>>piece.
>
> at Fort Hood today at the memorial service.
>
> I just viewed it on TV.
>
> I am sure she will find something or many somethings wrong with
> it.
When you look really hard trying to find fault, one is seldom disappointed.
Olly Mensch
Muslims as terrorists."
Not at all. It is not"Babtists" - whom you used as an example - who
practice and advocate "jihad" - - this concept is strictly for Muslims -
radical ones - unhappy ones,etc.
Why are you defending this man?? No one is saying all Muslims are bad -
but we are saying that their teachings INCLUDE "jihad" -and thus -
terrorism - and many disillusioned rebels find their salvation in that
cruelty.
How they got there should not serve as an excuse for the havoc they
spread.
Olly
Olly Mensch
and terrorism,etc.etc. It was a good post.
although I am pretty sure that the British and the French would argue
with you -since their current history of terrorism is conducted almost
exclusively by Muslims.
I would only like to point out that what few disturbed "terrorists"
there might be in other religions - simply do not compare - in sheer
numbers - to the wackos who adhere to the Muslim faith - to jihad.
And think of religious salvation when decapitating their enemies (Danny
Pearl!!) and that would be my only argument with your otherwise fine
post.
P.S. - -couldn't you possibly consider posting Fox news -as such - and
not FAUX????.....:-)
Olly
El Castor
>On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:00:38 -0500, Emily <Em...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:01:35 -0600, "normak" <njk...@qREMOVETHIS.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>See, Emily, people can't speak to others than their own clique.
>>
>>It can happen, believe me. I've had civil discussions with people on
>>both sides. It's probably a mistake to think that anyone is ever
>>going to change their mind about anything, though.
>>
>>I think this group simply reflects the mood of the country. Those on
>>the right really believe that this inexperienced fellow can't do
>>anything right and is going to bankrupt us. Those on the left believe
>>that Bush was the worst disaster that ever came down the pike.
>>(Clearly I'm with them on this one.) Both sides get frustrated that
>>the other side can't see the truth and logic in their positions. That
>>seems to be the case in Congress and the rest of the populace. Anyone
>>with an IQ as high as room temperature knows the country is in a very
>>precarious position in a lot of areas these days, and we're all
>>somewhat scared. I think this makes us take offense more quickly and
>>react with more hostility.
>>
>>I've been here for several years hoping to finally understand how
>>anyone could be wholeheartedly behind anything and everything that
>>their party does or stands for. Understanding continues to elude me.
>
>There are Democrats and then there are Democrats. While I do agree
>with the principles of the party, I certainly don't think all
>Democrats represent those either in philosophy or in behavior.
>
>And the problem I have with the Republicans is that there are almost
>no moderate variety today speaking out or offering ideas that are not
>just saying "no way" to anything the Dems present.
>
>The contrast is so stark between the parties today it is not at all
>difficult to make choices.
>
>It is very sad that people like Sarah Palin, and Michelle Bachmann are
>the only women one hears much about in the GOP.
>
>Years ago when the women's rights agenda was up for discussion and
>legislation I lived in Iowa and women of both parties joined together
>and promoted it politically in that state. That would be unthinkable
>today. They worked seamlessly together for something of mutual
>benefit.
>
>We have, on the one hand, Democrats saying health care needs
>reform, and the Republicans saying "no it doesn't." I do realize
>they did produce something they called a health care bill but it
>failed the first test by not requiring insurance providers to accept
>people with pre-existing conditions. How could one take that
>seriously. The Republicans seem to believe tort reform is the
>silver bullet that will cure all the problems in our health care
>system.
Cure all the problems? That's not true, and you know it. But, why not
tort reform? Why not an end to arcane insurance regulations on the
state level that make it impossible to operate across state lines? Why
not more regulation that makes cancellation of existing policies
fairer and much more difficult? Those things, and others could be
accomplished without costing the taxpayers a cent.
Here is the Republican alternative. Will Democrats even consider it?
Of course not:
� Lowering health care premiums. The GOP plan will lower health care
premiums for American families and small businesses, addressing
Americans� number-one priority for health care reform.
� Establishing Universal Access Programs to guarantee access to
affordable care for those with pre-existing conditions. The GOP plan
creates Universal Access Programs that expand and reform high-risk
pools and reinsurance programs to guarantee that all Americans,
regardless of pre-existing conditions or past illnesses, have access
to affordable care � while lowering costs for all Americans.
� Ending junk lawsuits. The GOP plan would help end costly junk
lawsuits and curb defensive medicine by enacting medical liability
reforms modeled after the successful state laws of California and
Texas.
� Prevents insurers from unjustly canceling a policy or instituting
annual of lifetime spending caps. The GOP plan prohibits an insurer
from canceling a policy unless a person commits fraud or conceals
material facts about a health condition. It also prohibits insurance
plans from instituting annual or lifetime spending limits.
� Encouraging Small Business Health Plans. The GOP plan gives small
businesses the power to pool together and offer health care at lower
prices, just as corporations and labor unions do.
� Encouraging innovative state programs. The GOP plan rewards
innovation by providing incentive payments to states that reduce
premiums and the number of uninsured.
� Allowing Americans to buy insurance across state lines. The GOP plan
allows Americans to shop for coverage from coast to coast by allowing
Americans living in one state to purchase insurance in another.
� Codifying the Hyde Amendment. The GOP plan explicitly prohibits all
federal funds, whether they are authorized funds or appropriated
funds, from being used to pay for abortion.
� Promoting healthier lifestyles. The GOP plan promotes prevention &
wellness by giving employers greater flexibility to financially reward
employees who adopt healthier lifestyles.
� Enhancing Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). The GOP plan creates new
incentives to save for future and long-term care needs by allowing
qualified participants to use HSAs to pay premiums.
� Allowing dependents to remain on their parents� policies. The GOP
plan encourages coverage of young adults on their parents� insurance
through age 25.
http://gopleader.gov/UploadedFiles/summary.pdf
>Emily, if you can think of any constructive proposals on anything
>offered by Republicans in Congress today, I'd be happy to
>hear about them. Gone are the days when Ted Kennedy and
>John McCain could co-sponsor legislation on immigration
>reform.
>
>>
>>It's worth noting that on the rare occasions when the subject isn't
>>political, there are very amusing and interesting discussions here.
>>And people of both political persuasions can be helpful with computer
>>mysteries.
>>
>>I'd like to hear more about your adventures in the Middle East. You
>>might even spark a conversation that could on for an hour or more
>>before we all started fighting the Israeli/Arab war again. ;-]
High Miles
> HighMiles - you wrote"this seems to be just another way of labeling all
> Muslims as terrorists."
That wasn't me.
> Not at all. It is not"Babtists" - whom you used as an example - who
> practice and advocate "jihad" - - this concept is strictly for Muslims -
> radical ones - unhappy ones,etc.
Once again.................not my statement. I like Baptists.
> Why are you defending this man??
Please reread, and you'll see I had no positive comments whatsoever.
No one is saying all Muslims are bad -
Sometimes you sound very much like a person who feels that way.
> but we are saying that their teachings INCLUDE "jihad" -and thus -
> terrorism - and many disillusioned rebels find their salvation in that
> cruelty.
> How they got there should not serve as an excuse for the havoc they
> spread.
> Olly
>
Our national philosophy now includes invading innocent countries for
economic reasons, while killing many non combatants and destroying
cities. Could that - by some cultures - be considered jihad ????
High Miles
And - once again - can you complete a post on this subject without
mentioning that stupid Pearl dude ?
He was an idiot to go into such a dangerous place and got what he deserved.
Wanted to get a Pulitzer no doubt.
Hope he serves as an object lesson for other young, egotistical journalists.
Olly Mensch
schooling,etc. - is absolutely correct. I remember reading it, also.
Perhaps you are referring to a certain tendency of his, to be
"tentative" - to allow for thorough considerations- before coming out
publicly; since he seems to be that type of person anyway. It is
basically a good trait - but in his role as President - it can get in
the way of effective, quick action/reaction. Especially in foreign
policy.
I am still puzzled, though, by his 20-year membership in the Rev.
Wright's church?? How could he??!!
Olly
High Miles
That church did more good in the community than any other, or
even more than any city service department.
The whole church body isn't loony and racist.
They are primarily well educated, well to do people.
And he does not and did not rant and carry on like that as a
regular thing. Allow that decades of frustration and burying
young men might make him bitter and angry.
It's a fine church, and you are no one to make judgments about
it or the people who attend it, since as usual, you are wearing your
paper hat.
Olly Mensch
machine!!! You continued "no lie is ever denounced."
You have a perfect right to be critical of the party other than your own
- on geneal principles - but when it comes to "slime" (whatever you and
islander incorporate into that word) the Democrats definitely have the
upper hand - since years and years. (Ted Kennedy - Barney
Frank,etc.etc.)
Couldn't we just discuss the differences between the ideologies of the
two parties- instead of always dragging them through the mud - - which
seems so common -so infantile.
Olly
Olly Mensch
the facts are known. (I fully agree, Rita)- - "Why would it even enter
your head to speculate that he might agree with the shooter? That sounds
like something the tea party crowd would say."= = Rita - I am only
allowed decffeinated tea...:-)
Olly
NormaK
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:03:09 -0600, "normak" <njk...@qREMOVETHIS.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >news:hdccm2$sve$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> >> "normak" <njk...@qREMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
> >>news:HJSdnaDBqOOqAWTX...@giganews.com...
>
> >as humane as he ought to be in these situations. Bekieve me Clinton, the
> >Bushes (W and wife went directly to the base to support troops last week),
> >and presidents before, would have done it very differently.
>
> >I have seen those of you from the left complaining about Republicans and
> >others thinking he is Muslim, but you seem to miss the obvious facts that
> >those of us who are independent can see. His skin is very thin, when it come
> >sto any such identification, and he is into protecting his reputation, and,
> >at times like this, it shows.
>
> >His arrogant appearing demeanor isn't one of his best traits.
>
> You have made that crystal clear.
I know you would love to "Americanize" the President's childhood, but
you really can't. A public education in Asian cultural environment
isn't "readin', 'ritin', and 'rithmitic" as we know it here in the
USA. The diversity of the student body, would have been conformed to
the country in which they lived. .
As to your last thought, you are a much more literal thinker than I
am, so you obviously don't understand a more neutral view. There is
nothing black and white about him or anyone else, so don't try to make
my thoughts fit with yours.
Now you can go back to the group who love to chat together and ignore
what I think or say. I'm sure life is much simpler to do that, as life
can be complicated when things are up in the air so much of the time.
What is there to "prove" with the President's background? He had a
mother who loved 2 very different men, both of whom were Muslim,and
the home had to be as different as one could think it would have been
here. He is a product of all that as much as anyone else is. If you
read his first book, you must understand the confusion that he felt,
and how it affected all that he did. He certainly expressed how he
got what planned his life out to be within those pages.
As to my employer, the now King Abdullah, was good to me, although he
couldn't speak to me or touch me. He appreciated all that I did, and
I was promoted o a regular basis. It was a good reprieve in a long
career, and I learned a great deal about another culture, religion,
and myself. I got "unstuck" from any thoughts that things were all
good or bad in any way.
Norma
<snip>