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crunch
Jan 7, 2010, 10:14:16 AM1/7/10
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On Jan 3, 1:10 pm, Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Jan 3, 9:55 am, Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > GezaVermeson Josephus on Jesus: Seven pages.
>
> >http://standpointmag.co.uk/jesus-in-the-eyes-of-josephus-features-jan...
>
> Didn't find the cite so print
>
> Features
>
> Jesus in the Eyes of Josephus
> GEZAVERMES
> January/February 2010
>
> Exemplary character: John the Baptist
>
> Joseph son of Matthias, better known as Flavius Josephus — surnamed
> after his patron, the Roman Emperor Titus Flavius — was the greatest
> Jewish historian of antiquity. Without his work, much of the
> contemporaneous history of Israel would be floating in a vacuum.
> Josephus's vignettes concerning Jesus, John the Baptist and Jesus's
> brother, James, are the only pieces of outside evidence relating to
> first-century New Testament figures. The issue of their authenticity
> is, therefore, of major importance. However, before tackling it, let
> me say a few words about the author and his reliability as an
> historian.
>...
> The critical revival since the 19th century brought about a shift of
> opinion among leading scholars, tending towards the denial of the
> authenticity of the Jesus notice, and less frequently of those about
> John the Baptist and James. Nowadays, opinions are divided. Hence the
> question must be asked: Are the three notices the work of Josephus, or
> have they, or some of them, been produced wholly or partly by a
> Christian forger?
>
> The three passages appear in separate sections of the Antiquities. The
> short Jesus notice comes first, followed by the longer accounts of
> John and the execution of James. Leaving the controversial Testimonium
> to last, let us first examine John and James, both in their Josephan
> context and in comparison with the corresponding Christian sources.
>
> John the Baptist
>
> In the Gospels, John, an eremitic prophet, preached repentance and
> baptism in the wilderness of the Jordan. He was the forerunner of
> Jesus, his follower and successor in Galilee.
>...
> Jesus
>
> The Jesus story is presented by Josephus as one of four misdeeds that
> Josephus blamed on Pontius Pilate, prefect of Judaea 26-36 CE. The
> first was the introduction of Roman standards bearing the emperor's
> effigy into Jerusalem (26 CE). The second was the misappropriation of
> Temple funds (date unknown). The third was the sentencing of Jesus (30
> CE), while the last was the upheaval in Samaria (35 CE), which led to
> Pilate's dismissal from office.
>
> Regarding the authenticity of the Testimonium, three stances are
> possible:
>
> 1. One may accept it lock, stock and barrel, as did all the pre-16th-
> century authorities.
>
> 2. With more recent scholars, one may reject the entire passage as a
> Christian interpolation.
>
> 3. In the company of an increasing number of recent students, it is
> possible to recognise some parts of the notice as authentic and
> discard the remainder as spurious.
>...
> The Christian passages, those that cannot be ascribed to the Jew
> Josephus, are easily distinguishable.
>
> *
> The gloss, "If indeed one ought to call him a man", is the
> interpolator's reaction to the superhuman/divine Jesus being called a
> mere "wise man".
> *
> "He was the Christ" is a common Christian interpolator's
> confession of the messianic status of Jesus. Nevertheless, the
> original text must have contained the epithet, "Christ", to account
> for the later statement about "the tribe of the Christians" named
> after the founder. The most likely original version read, "He was
> called the Christ", as Josephus puts it in the James passage.
> *
> The reference to Jesus attracting to himself "many Greeks" is
> without Gospel support. Nevertheless, if Josephus knew of a mixed
> Jewish-Gentile church in Rome, he may have believed that a similar
> structure existed at the time of Jesus.
> *
> The resurrection appearances on the third day, together with the
> relevant prophecies, are part of the apologetic arsenal of the early
> church and have nothing to do with Josephus.
>
> Once the Christian supplements are removed, the original notice is
> reduced to the description of Jesus as "wise man" and "performer of
> paradoxical deeds", the epithet "Christ" attached to the name of
> Jesus; the crediting of the death sentence to Pilate; and the mention
> of the existence of the followers of Jesus at the time of the writing
> of the Testimonium in the 90s CE.
>
> Both "wise man" and "performer of paradoxical deeds" take us to plain
> Josephus territory. Great biblical and post-biblical characters like
> the priest Ezra, the miracle-worker Honi-Onias (Hame'agel, the circle-
> maker), and the Pharisaic leader Samaias are regularly portrayed as
> "just men" and John is called a "good man". More specifically, the
> legendary King Solomon and the Prophet Daniel carry the title of "wise
> man", and the miracle-working prophet Elisha is said to have performed
> "paradoxical deeds". The notion of a paradox is commonly used by
> Josephus in relation to extraordinary events caused by God (the manna
> or the burning bush) and to miracles performed by Moses (Ant. 3:37-38)
> and by the prophet Elisha (Ant. 9:182).
>
> In contrast, the phrase "wise man" has no New Testament parallels in
> reference to Jesus and falls far short of an honorific title that a
> Christian forger would choose to describe the divine Christ. Note that
> in Paul "wise man" has a pejorative connotation (1 Cor 1:18-31) and in
> a saying of Jesus "the wise" are unfavourably compared to "babes" (Mt
> 11:25; Lk 10:21). Furthermore, a Christian interpolator would be
> presumed to use phrases borrowed from the New Testament such as
> "mighty deeds" or "signs" instead of the neutral "paradoxical deeds".
> The term "paradoxical" is found only once in the New Testament on the
> lips of uncommitted witnesses of a Gospel miracle (Lk 5:26).
>
> The fact that Josephus makes Pilate responsible for the crucifixion is
> highly significant. It is perfectly in line with Josephus's critical
> attitude towards the prefect of Judaea, the perpetrator of a series of
> dreadful acts. One would imagine that a later Christian forger would
> try to exculpate him and place the blame for the death of Jesus on the
> shoulders of the Jews, as do the New Testament and especially later
> church tradition. Finally, the detached picture of the followers of
> Jesus is in harmony with the attitude of an outsider, but would be odd
> in the case of a Christian apologist.
>
> The Jesus notice is a veritable tour de force. Josephus plays the role
> of a neutral witness. We know that when he wants to disapprove of
> someone, he knows how to do it. In his description of two pseudo-
> Messiahs, Theudas and "the Egyptian", both mentioned in the Acts of
> the Apostles (5:26; 21:38), Josephus calls them "imposters".
>
> So by portraying Jesus not unsympathetically, yet without fully
> embracing his cause, he achieved what none of his ancient Jewish
> successors managed to do: he sketched a non-partisan picture of Jesus.
> The Testimonium lies half way between the reverential portrait of the
> early church and the caricatures of the Talmud and of the early
> medieval Jewish lives of Jesus (Toldot Yeshu).
>
> In conclusion, what seems to be Josephus's authentic portrait of Jesus
> depicts him as a wise teacher and miracle worker, with an enthusiastic
> following of Jewish disciples who, despite the crucifixion of their
> master by order of Pontius Pilate in collusion with the Jerusalem high
> priests, remained faithful to him up to Josephus's days.
>
> Let me offer therefore the text that I believe Josephus wrote. The
> Christian additions, identified in the paragraph that follows the
> earlier reproduction of the English translation of Antiquities 18:
> 63-64, are excised and the deletions are indicated by [......]. The
> dubious authenticity of the phrase "[and many Greeks?]" (see the same
> paragraph above) is signalled by the question mark. Finally, the word
> [called] is inserted into the sentence "He was [called] the Christ" on
> the basis of Josephus's description of James as "the brother of Jesus
> called the Christ".
>
> About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man...For he was one who
> performed paradoxical deeds and was the teacher of such people as
> accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews [and many Greeks?]. He
> was [called] the Christ. When Pilate, upon hearing him accused by men
> of the highest standing among us, had condemned him to be crucified,
> those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up
> their affection for him...And the tribe of the Christians, so called
> after him, has still to this day not disappeared.
> On Jan 3, 9:55 am, Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > GezaVermeson Josephus on Jesus: Seven pages.
>
> >http://standpointmag.co.uk/jesus-in-the-eyes-of-josephus-features-jan...
>
> Didn't find the cite so print
>
> Features
>
> Jesus in the Eyes of Josephus
> GEZAVERMES
> January/February 2010
>
> Exemplary character: John the Baptist
>
> Joseph son of Matthias, better known as Flavius Josephus — surnamed
> after his patron, the Roman Emperor Titus Flavius — was the greatest
> Jewish historian of antiquity. Without his work, much of the
> contemporaneous history of Israel would be floating in a vacuum.
> Josephus's vignettes concerning Jesus, John the Baptist and Jesus's
> brother, James, are the only pieces of outside evidence relating to
> first-century New Testament figures. The issue of their authenticity
> is, therefore, of major importance. However, before tackling it, let
> me say a few words about the author and his reliability as an
> historian.
>...
> The critical revival since the 19th century brought about a shift of
> opinion among leading scholars, tending towards the denial of the
> authenticity of the Jesus notice, and less frequently of those about
> John the Baptist and James. Nowadays, opinions are divided. Hence the
> question must be asked: Are the three notices the work of Josephus, or
> have they, or some of them, been produced wholly or partly by a
> Christian forger?
>
> The three passages appear in separate sections of the Antiquities. The
> short Jesus notice comes first, followed by the longer accounts of
> John and the execution of James. Leaving the controversial Testimonium
> to last, let us first examine John and James, both in their Josephan
> context and in comparison with the corresponding Christian sources.
>
> John the Baptist
>
> In the Gospels, John, an eremitic prophet, preached repentance and
> baptism in the wilderness of the Jordan. He was the forerunner of
> Jesus, his follower and successor in Galilee.
>...
> Jesus
>
> The Jesus story is presented by Josephus as one of four misdeeds that
> Josephus blamed on Pontius Pilate, prefect of Judaea 26-36 CE. The
> first was the introduction of Roman standards bearing the emperor's
> effigy into Jerusalem (26 CE). The second was the misappropriation of
> Temple funds (date unknown). The third was the sentencing of Jesus (30
> CE), while the last was the upheaval in Samaria (35 CE), which led to
> Pilate's dismissal from office.
>
> Regarding the authenticity of the Testimonium, three stances are
> possible:
>
> 1. One may accept it lock, stock and barrel, as did all the pre-16th-
> century authorities.
>
> 2. With more recent scholars, one may reject the entire passage as a
> Christian interpolation.
>
> 3. In the company of an increasing number of recent students, it is
> possible to recognise some parts of the notice as authentic and
> discard the remainder as spurious.
>...
> The Christian passages, those that cannot be ascribed to the Jew
> Josephus, are easily distinguishable.
>
> *
> The gloss, "If indeed one ought to call him a man", is the
> interpolator's reaction to the superhuman/divine Jesus being called a
> mere "wise man".
> *
> "He was the Christ" is a common Christian interpolator's
> confession of the messianic status of Jesus. Nevertheless, the
> original text must have contained the epithet, "Christ", to account
> for the later statement about "the tribe of the Christians" named
> after the founder. The most likely original version read, "He was
> called the Christ", as Josephus puts it in the James passage.
> *
> The reference to Jesus attracting to himself "many Greeks" is
> without Gospel support. Nevertheless, if Josephus knew of a mixed
> Jewish-Gentile church in Rome, he may have believed that a similar
> structure existed at the time of Jesus.
> *
> The resurrection appearances on the third day, together with the
> relevant prophecies, are part of the apologetic arsenal of the early
> church and have nothing to do with Josephus.
>
> Once the Christian supplements are removed, the original notice is
> reduced to the description of Jesus as "wise man" and "performer of
> paradoxical deeds", the epithet "Christ" attached to the name of
> Jesus; the crediting of the death sentence to Pilate; and the mention
> of the existence of the followers of Jesus at the time of the writing
> of the Testimonium in the 90s CE.
>
> Both "wise man" and "performer of paradoxical deeds" take us to plain
> Josephus territory. Great biblical and post-biblical characters like
> the priest Ezra, the miracle-worker Honi-Onias (Hame'agel, the circle-
> maker), and the Pharisaic leader Samaias are regularly portrayed as
> "just men" and John is called a "good man". More specifically, the
> legendary King Solomon and the Prophet Daniel carry the title of "wise
> man", and the miracle-working prophet Elisha is said to have performed
> "paradoxical deeds". The notion of a paradox is commonly used by
> Josephus in relation to extraordinary events caused by God (the manna
> or the burning bush) and to miracles performed by Moses (Ant. 3:37-38)
> and by the prophet Elisha (Ant. 9:182).
>
> In contrast, the phrase "wise man" has no New Testament parallels in
> reference to Jesus and falls far short of an honorific title that a
> Christian forger would choose to describe the divine Christ. Note that
> in Paul "wise man" has a pejorative connotation (1 Cor 1:18-31) and in
> a saying of Jesus "the wise" are unfavourably compared to "babes" (Mt
> 11:25; Lk 10:21). Furthermore, a Christian interpolator would be
> presumed to use phrases borrowed from the New Testament such as
> "mighty deeds" or "signs" instead of the neutral "paradoxical deeds".
> The term "paradoxical" is found only once in the New Testament on the
> lips of uncommitted witnesses of a Gospel miracle (Lk 5:26).
>
> The fact that Josephus makes Pilate responsible for the crucifixion is
> highly significant. It is perfectly in line with Josephus's critical
> attitude towards the prefect of Judaea, the perpetrator of a series of
> dreadful acts. One would imagine that a later Christian forger would
> try to exculpate him and place the blame for the death of Jesus on the
> shoulders of the Jews, as do the New Testament and especially later
> church tradition. Finally, the detached picture of the followers of
> Jesus is in harmony with the attitude of an outsider, but would be odd
> in the case of a Christian apologist.
>
> The Jesus notice is a veritable tour de force. Josephus plays the role
> of a neutral witness. We know that when he wants to disapprove of
> someone, he knows how to do it. In his description of two pseudo-
> Messiahs, Theudas and "the Egyptian", both mentioned in the Acts of
> the Apostles (5:26; 21:38), Josephus calls them "imposters".
>
> So by portraying Jesus not unsympathetically, yet without fully
> embracing his cause, he achieved what none of his ancient Jewish
> successors managed to do: he sketched a non-partisan picture of Jesus.
> The Testimonium lies half way between the reverential portrait of the
> early church and the caricatures of the Talmud and of the early
> medieval Jewish lives of Jesus (Toldot Yeshu).
>
> In conclusion, what seems to be Josephus's authentic portrait of Jesus
> depicts him as a wise teacher and miracle worker, with an enthusiastic
> following of Jewish disciples who, despite the crucifixion of their
> master by order of Pontius Pilate in collusion with the Jerusalem high
> priests, remained faithful to him up to Josephus's days.
>
> Let me offer therefore the text that I believe Josephus wrote. The
> Christian additions, identified in the paragraph that follows the
> earlier reproduction of the English translation of Antiquities 18:
> 63-64, are excised and the deletions are indicated by [......]. The
> dubious authenticity of the phrase "[and many Greeks?]" (see the same
> paragraph above) is signalled by the question mark. Finally, the word
> [called] is inserted into the sentence "He was [called] the Christ" on
> the basis of Josephus's description of James as "the brother of Jesus
> called the Christ".
>
> About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man...For he was one who
> performed paradoxical deeds and was the teacher of such people as
> accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews [and many Greeks?]. He
> was [called] the Christ. When Pilate, upon hearing him accused by men
> of the highest standing among us, had condemned him to be crucified,
> those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up
> their affection for him...And the tribe of the Christians, so called
> after him, has still to this day not disappeared.
Scrolls, scriptures, and early Christianity
By Géza Vermès - Page 27
Vermes indeed "grossly misunderstand[s] Dr.
Thiering." A travesty of scholarship by Vermes.
But, his scholarly work here on Josephus, James,
John the Baptist, and Jesus could be the starting
point for usenet discussion.
-----
Encrypting Christianity
Reviewed by Howard A. Doughty
http://www.innovation.cc/book-reviews/encrypting-christianity.htm
The results [of Thiering pesher] are formidable.
-----
List of publications of Dr. Thiering
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qumran_origin/message/2727
David Christainsen
Newton, Mass. USA
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