The Change novels of S.M. Sterling
B Sellers
"Sword of the Lady". I recommend it to anyone who like pagan mythos
and sword and sorcery fantasy.
The Change is an event in the books in which about 1998 natural
law changes and suddenly modern technology including internal
combustion
engines fails. The Change is responsible of the death of many
millions
or even a billion or two billion people.
The novel I mention above is set about Year 24 of the Change and it
is about a quest for a Sword of the Lady to be found in
Nantucket. The
path to this implement is set with friends and foes some
cannibals and other
less horrid savages who have lost lots of knowledge as they escaped.
The hero is a clan leader who will become the King of a new nation
where Oregon and Washington used to be. California is a wasteland of
savages and deadly plagues. So are large parts of what was the USA.
In addition ultimate Evil has arisen in one area with forced
breeding and
the deadly desire to convert all humans to Its use. In his party
we have
his fiancée, his brother a deadly bowman, a couple of women rangers
of the Dunedain, a warrior Christian cleric and many fighters.
They bring
a group of non-cannibal savages into the group to accomplish a
part of
the quest and forge on to the East Coast following the St.
Laurence river
frozen hard into Maine where many small towns including one built
around
a shipyard survive. Meantime the communities on the West Coast are
under attack by the UE and its unwitting allies.
I have left out lots of the details of this story in order to
preserve
as much of the wonder you may feel at reading it but the Hero is
a Wiccan as are many of the others and Asatru are the allies in
Maine. I have mentioned the Rangers of the Dunedain.
Baird Stafford
B Sellers <bl...@sfo.com> wrote:
<snip>
> I have left out lots of the details of this story in order to
> preserve as much of the wonder you may feel at reading it but the
> Hero is a Wiccan as are many of the others and Asatru are the allies
> in Maine. I have mentioned the Rangers of the Dunedain.
I am more than pleased to add my endorsement to the above
recommendation. I've been following Sterling's "Ember World" (now,
apparently, "Change") novels since they first started appearing and have
never been disappointed.
Incidentally, one thing the cited review omitted was that the "King
Arthur" figure stops for a while with a settlement of Asatruar. Unlike
with Wicca, I can't comment on the accuracy of Sterling's depiction.
Perhaps Dirk, if he reads the novel, will be kind enough to favor us
with his opinion.
Blessed be,
Baird
--
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice
there is. -Yogi Berra
B Sellers
> The novel I got reacquainted with the world of the "Change" was
> "Sword of the Lady". I recommend it to anyone who like pagan mythos
> and sword and sorcery fantasy.
The initial novel of these is "Dies the Fire", a quote from a poem
talking about not only the metaphorical death of fire-powered
equipment
but the eclipse of the technological civilization.
It covers the events of the main characters lives after the Change
and the rise of a neo-feudalism masking gangs of criminals bent on
dominating all other authority. It covers the birth of the hero
of the
"Sword of the Lady" as well as his conception and Wiccaning.
Later
bliss
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> In article <7jv3s0F...@mid.individual.net>,
> B Sellers <bl...@sfo.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> I have left out lots of the details of this story in order to
>> preserve as much of the wonder you may feel at reading it but the
>> Hero is a Wiccan as are many of the others and Asatru are the allies
>> in Maine. I have mentioned the Rangers of the Dunedain.
>
> I am more than pleased to add my endorsement to the above
> recommendation. I've been following Sterling's "Ember World" (now,
> apparently, "Change") novels since they first started appearing and have
> never been disappointed.
>
> Incidentally, one thing the cited review omitted was that the "King
> Arthur" figure stops for a while with a settlement of Asatruar. Unlike
> with Wicca, I can't comment on the accuracy of Sterling's depiction.
> Perhaps Dirk, if he reads the novel, will be kind enough to favor us
> with his opinion.
Well, first off, I'm rather unlikely to read the novel for a number of
reasons. I rather dislike dystopian SF/fantasy which was all the rage
when I was a teenager. I prefer a much more optimistic, technological,
view of the future. The second reason is that I have largely stopped
reading SF&F because only one or two authors can keep up with modern
scitech, let alone anticipate or speculate creatively around it.
My two favorite authors are Greg Egan and Charles Stross. Unfortunately
with Egan a degree level education in physics helps a lot! Stross is a
different matter, especially his Laundry series which got me really
hooked on him. There are a couple of his shorter works online, both of
which are fun:
http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/colderwar.htm
As soon as I read that I went and bought several of his books, and was
not disappointed. His online Laundry story is:
http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=story&id=61
FFF
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
B Sellers
> Baird Stafford wrote:
>> In article <7jv3s0F...@mid.individual.net>,
>> B Sellers <bl...@sfo.com> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> I have left out lots of the details of this story in order to
>>> preserve as much of the wonder you may feel at reading it but the
>>> Hero is a Wiccan as are many of the others and Asatru are the allies
>>> in Maine. I have mentioned the Rangers of the Dunedain.
>>
>> I am more than pleased to add my endorsement to the above
>> recommendation. I've been following Sterling's "Ember World" (now,
>> apparently, "Change") novels since they first started appearing and
>> have never been disappointed.
>>
>> Incidentally, one thing the cited review omitted was that the "King
>> Arthur" figure stops for a while with a settlement of Asatruar.
>> Unlike with Wicca, I can't comment on the accuracy of Sterling's
>> depiction. Perhaps Dirk, if he reads the novel, will be kind enough
>> to favor us with his opinion.
>
> Well, first off, I'm rather unlikely to read the novel for a number of
> reasons. I rather dislike dystopian SF/fantasy which was all the rage
> when I was a teenager. I prefer a much more optimistic, technological,
> view of the future. The second reason is that I have largely stopped
> reading SF&F because only one or two authors can keep up with modern
> scitech, let alone anticipate or speculate creatively around it.
This is not dystopian but rather alternative world where Something
manifested in 1998 killing, as is the privilege of Something,
lots of people
as a side-effect of technological-over-dependence.
The result is a new era in which Wicca and other neo-pagan faiths
take over. Lots of tragedy at the beginning but the Mother does not
die and by the "Sword of the Lady" people are still the best and
worst thing regularly running around the world. Before the end
of the
book when the Astruar are feting the Wiccans and the Christian
warrior
there is brief moment that inspired me to post here.
As to whether any particular individual should read it or not I
guess
it depends on what hold they have on reality and how bad the present
global situation of petro-chemical fuel abuse oppresses them because
this is a relief from that situation.
>
> My two favorite authors are Greg Egan and Charles Stross. Unfortunately
> with Egan a degree level education in physics helps a lot! Stross is a
> different matter, especially his Laundry series which got me really
> hooked on him. There are a couple of his shorter works online, both of
> which are fun:
>
> http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/colderwar.htm
>
> As soon as I read that I went and bought several of his books, and was
> not disappointed. His online Laundry story is:
>
> http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=story&id=61
>
> FFF
> Dirk
>
> http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
> http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
> http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
>
We are living in a dystopia and trying to move it toward
a sustainable & pleasant future. Very hard for fuel abusers
to understand.
later
bliss
Baird Stafford
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, first off, I'm rather unlikely to read the novel for a number of
> reasons. I rather dislike dystopian SF/fantasy which was all the rage
> when I was a teenager. I prefer a much more optimistic, technological,
> view of the future. The second reason is that I have largely stopped
> reading SF&F because only one or two authors can keep up with modern
> scitech, let alone anticipate or speculate creatively around it.
'S okay. It's just that you're the person I think of when I want an
*informed* opinion about Asatru. I've developed as healthy a distrust
of people who discuss Asatru from the outside as I have for people who
discuss Wicca from the outside - and for many of the same reasons.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Well, same thing IMO.
> The result is a new era in which Wicca and other neo-pagan faiths
> take over. Lots of tragedy at the beginning but the Mother does not
> die and by the "Sword of the Lady" people are still the best and
> worst thing regularly running around the world. Before the end of the
> book when the Astruar are feting the Wiccans and the Christian warrior
> there is brief moment that inspired me to post here.
I'm not criticizing the book itself, but the plotline mechanism.
For example, I've read other pure fantasy stuff and also
pseudohistorical fiction such as:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Way-Wyrd-Tales-Anglo-Saxon-Sorcerer/dp/1401904777
> As to whether any particular individual should read it or not I guess
> it depends on what hold they have on reality and how bad the present
> global situation of petro-chemical fuel abuse oppresses them because
> this is a relief from that situation.
I'm an optimist.
The problems we face now as far less IMO than what we faced until the
fall of Communism. There we lived with the very real and imminent threat
of global annihilation at 20 min notice. Climate change where we might
get our feet wet in 100 years, or running short of oil in 30 just
doesn't cut it.
>> My two favorite authors are Greg Egan and Charles Stross.
>> Unfortunately with Egan a degree level education in physics helps a
>> lot! Stross is a different matter, especially his Laundry series which
>> got me really hooked on him. There are a couple of his shorter works
>> online, both of which are fun:
>>
>> http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/colderwar.htm
>>
>> As soon as I read that I went and bought several of his books, and was
>> not disappointed. His online Laundry story is:
>>
>> http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=story&id=61
>>
>> FFF
>> Dirk
>>
>> http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
>> http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
>> http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
>>
>
> We are living in a dystopia and trying to move it toward
> a sustainable & pleasant future. Very hard for fuel abusers
> to understand.
There are plenty of solutions to our energy needs, and more appearing
every year. The more expensive oil becomes the faster they will be
implemented. The lights are not going to go out.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> In article <7k89t9F...@mid.individual.net>,
> Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, first off, I'm rather unlikely to read the novel for a number of
>> reasons. I rather dislike dystopian SF/fantasy which was all the rage
>> when I was a teenager. I prefer a much more optimistic, technological,
>> view of the future. The second reason is that I have largely stopped
>> reading SF&F because only one or two authors can keep up with modern
>> scitech, let alone anticipate or speculate creatively around it.
>
> 'S okay. It's just that you're the person I think of when I want an
> *informed* opinion about Asatru. I've developed as healthy a distrust
> of people who discuss Asatru from the outside as I have for people who
> discuss Wicca from the outside - and for many of the same reasons.
Well, if you could summarize your impressions of Asatru in the book I
could give you my opinions, but right now I've just finished the first
draft of my own book. Not to mention having just crashed my car. So I'm
a bit pre-occupied with shit at present.
Baird Stafford
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk....@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> > 'S okay. It's just that you're the person I think of when I want an
> > *informed* opinion about Asatru. I've developed as healthy a distrust
> > of people who discuss Asatru from the outside as I have for people who
> > discuss Wicca from the outside - and for many of the same reasons.
> Well, if you could summarize your impressions of Asatru in the book I
> could give you my opinions, but right now I've just finished the first
> draft of my own book. Not to mention having just crashed my car. So I'm
> a bit pre-occupied with shit at present.
Sounds like you've plenty on your plate just now, without me adding to
it. And I'm not all that worried about Stirling's presentation of
Asatru in any case - he listed in his acknowledgements whoever it was he
consulted about it, and it was someone I'd heard favorable things of.
You take care of the book and the car. And I sincerely hope you didn't
suffer any injury in the crash.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Thanks, I'm OK apart from the financial and legal trauma and hassle of
finding a good replacement car. I REALLY liked the car I smashed up and
it's going to be difficult finding one just like it.
B Sellers
of hope for the future of humanity under the imposed low-tech order
which simply keeps high pressure situation as in firearms, IC engines
and steam engines from happening.
Sooner or later humanity has to learn to control its reproduction
or be faced with population collapse due to any number of factors
including but not limited to collapse of food sources due to plant
disease, new human plagues and extreme natural catastrophe.
In this series the change in physical law is designed and either the
result of Divine intervention or the Advanced Alien Space Bats.
Extreme natural catastrophe include not only tsunami but the
eruption of some of the mega-volcanoes such as the one that Japan
is sited on, Yellowstone which is a giant caldera, Mammoth Lakes
in California, a big one in New Zealand and another in Africa not
to mention Krakatoa (East of Java)..
Then there is the asteroid collision which is the best argument
for moving off the planet ASAP. Some of these of course will
happen no matter what humanity does about its population.
>
>> The result is a new era in which Wicca and other neo-pagan faiths
>> take over. Lots of tragedy at the beginning but the Mother does not
>> die and by the "Sword of the Lady" people are still the best and
>> worst thing regularly running around the world. Before the end of the
>> book when the Astruar are feting the Wiccans and the Christian warrior
>> there is brief moment that inspired me to post here.
>
> I'm not criticizing the book itself, but the plotline mechanism.
> For example, I've read other pure fantasy stuff and also
> pseudohistorical fiction such as:
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Way-Wyrd-Tales-Anglo-Saxon-Sorcerer/dp/1401904777
>
>> As to whether any particular individual should read it or not I guess
>> it depends on what hold they have on reality and how bad the present
>> global situation of petro-chemical fuel abuse oppresses them because
>> this is a relief from that situation.
>
> I'm an optimist.
> The problems we face now as far less IMO than what we faced until the
> fall of Communism. There we lived with the very real and imminent threat
> of global annihilation at 20 min notice. Climate change where we might
> get our feet wet in 100 years, or running short of oil in 30 just
> doesn't cut it.
I guess it will take a genuine dystopic situation such as the flooding
of DC before you grok in fullness. And we won't run out of oil soon but
cheap oil seems to be on its way out,
On the Indian sub-continent lots of people will be getting their feet
wet soonest. Some of the Pacific island nations are already losing land.
And you will be able to find polar bears only at the zoo soon due to a
largely
ice free Arctic, watch out for a seal population explosion and a shortage
of the fish we(seals and people) both like to eat.
Communism has never existed except in isolated religious communities
and what you refer to was never a real danger because capitalists are too
vicious to be overcome by a bunch of cheap suit conspirators who by their
internal tactics had held their nation back for about a long human lifetime.
So-called Communism defeated itself and would have gone more quietly
if Regan hadn't tricked it into the arms race. The computer helped keep
it down after the end of the USSR.
You know how you create multiple Leftist parties?
You start one and watch it split. I live in San Francisco and get
to see the phenomena all the time.
I still like the tone of the Change series better than some of
the imperialistic fantasy put forward by other writers. Or the endless
fantasies of war spewed by others. S.M.Sterling includes the training
for war and low-tech fighting.
>>> My two favorite authors are Greg Egan and Charles Stross.
>>> Unfortunately with Egan a degree level education in physics helps a
>>> lot! Stross is a different matter, especially his Laundry series
>>> which got me really hooked on him. There are a couple of his shorter
>>> works online, both of which are fun:
>>>
>>> http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/colderwar.htm
>>>
>>> As soon as I read that I went and bought several of his books, and
>>> was not disappointed. His online Laundry story is:
>>>
>>> http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=story&id=61
>>>
>>> FFF
>>> Dirk
>>>
>>> http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
>>> http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
>>> http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
>>>
>>
>> We are living in a dystopia and trying to move it toward
>> a sustainable & pleasant future. Very hard for fuel abusers
>> to understand.
>
> There are plenty of solutions to our energy needs, and more appearing
> every year. The more expensive oil becomes the faster they will be
> implemented. The lights are not going to go out.
No but the lights will be LEDs eventually or some better alternative.
Until that asteroid hits or...
>
> FFF
> Dirk
>
> http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
> http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
> http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
I posted the bit abour the Change novels because I see
the inactivity in the srp newsgroup and don't think it should be
left to die on the vine so to speak. It seems to be helping a bit.
later
bliss
Doug Freyburger
>
> 'S okay. It's just that you're the person I think of when I want an
> *informed* opinion about Asatru. I've developed as healthy a distrust
> of people who discuss Asatru from the outside as I have for people who
> discuss Wicca from the outside - and for many of the same reasons.
It was reviewed in the latest edition of Idunna the quarterly magazine
of the Troth www.thetroth.org. The review was complimentary to the
treatment of intersect relations and only briefly mentioned the Asatru
colony. Sounds like no objections coming from the inside of Asatru.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
>
> Not at all. Though it is pretty hairy at points the overall tone is
> of hope for the future of humanity under the imposed low-tech order
> which simply keeps high pressure situation as in firearms, IC engines
> and steam engines from happening.
>
> Sooner or later humanity has to learn to control its reproduction
> or be faced with population collapse due to any number of factors
> including but not limited to collapse of food sources due to plant
> disease, new human plagues and extreme natural catastrophe.
> In this series the change in physical law is designed and either the
> result of Divine intervention or the Advanced Alien Space Bats.
The Earth could quite easily support a population 10x higher than the
present and still be no more crowded than England is today. However, it
does mean hitech everything, not peasants plowing dirt.
However, the "problem" in the West, as in much of Asia, is population
collapse. Africa is a different story.
> Extreme natural catastrophe include not only tsunami but the
> eruption of some of the mega-volcanoes such as the one that Japan
> is sited on, Yellowstone which is a giant caldera, Mammoth Lakes
> in California, a big one in New Zealand and another in Africa not
> to mention Krakatoa (East of Java)..
> Then there is the asteroid collision which is the best argument
> for moving off the planet ASAP. Some of these of course will
> happen no matter what humanity does about its population.
The only long term answer is to spread beyond Earth.
However, long before that happens Humanity will have disappeared into
PostHumanity. I expect that transition to begin sometime around mid
century and run to completion within a couple of decades from there.
http://www.humanityplus.org/learn/philosophy/faq#answer_19
http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0563.html?printable=1
"We're entering an age of acceleration. The models underlying society at
every level, which are largely based on a linear model of change, are
going to have to be redefined. Because of the explosive power of
exponential growth, the 21st century will be equivalent to 20,000 years
of progress at today's rate of progress; organizations have to be able
to redefine themselves at a faster and faster pace."
Baird Stafford
Doug Freyburger <dfre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thank you. I didn't *think* there would be, but as I've implied
(strongly!) Asatru and the Asatruar are not subjects upon which I
consider myself to have a great deal of knowledge.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> In article <hbqjfm$s9d$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Doug Freyburger <dfre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Baird Stafford wrote:
>>> 'S okay. It's just that you're the person I think of when I want an
>>> *informed* opinion about Asatru. I've developed as healthy a distrust
>>> of people who discuss Asatru from the outside as I have for people who
>>> discuss Wicca from the outside - and for many of the same reasons.
>> It was reviewed in the latest edition of Idunna the quarterly magazine
>> of the Troth www.thetroth.org. The review was complimentary to the
>> treatment of intersect relations and only briefly mentioned the Asatru
>> colony. Sounds like no objections coming from the inside of Asatru.
>
> Thank you. I didn't *think* there would be, but as I've implied
> (strongly!) Asatru and the Asatruar are not subjects upon which I
> consider myself to have a great deal of knowledge.
Just think "Heinlein" and you have the archetypal Asatruar IMO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Heinlein
Baird Stafford
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk....@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> Just think "Heinlein" and you have the archetypal Asatruar IMO.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Heinlein
Umph. I'm more apt to think of the Church of All Worlds than of
Asatruar when I think of Bob Heinlein. CAW has made more noise.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> In article <7kdrttF...@mid.individual.net>,
> Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Just think "Heinlein" and you have the archetypal Asatruar IMO.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Heinlein
>
> Umph. I'm more apt to think of the Church of All Worlds than of
> Asatruar when I think of Bob Heinlein. CAW has made more noise.
I'm generally referring to Heinlein's self image as an ideal.
I'll see if I can find a quote...
http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/205.Robert_A_Heinlein?page=1
""A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, cone a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give
orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem,
pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently,
die gallantly."
� Robert A. Heinlein
I would say that is a good description of an Asatru ideal.
B Sellers
heard on action shows, "Take the con", "I have the con".
"Con(trol of) the ship" etc.
You guys would be wiped out if he had thought of
the ultimate, which is to give birth to another human being.
later
bliss
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
I guess the page I pasted it from got it wrong.
You should send them an email.
> You guys would be wiped out if he had thought of
> the ultimate, which is to give birth to another human being.
Asatru includes women as well, you know.
And all of the above certainly applies to them.
Still, being a Transhumanist I look forward to the day when men as well
as women are engineered to give birth.